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47th Congress, ) SENATE. ( Mis. Doc. 

1st /Session. ) ( No. 116. 



IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES. 



TESTIMONY 






THE SENATE SPECIAL COMMITTEE 



TO 



Investigate the administration of the collection of internal revenue in the 
sixth district of Xorth Carolina, appointed Ajyril 21, 1882. 



Ji:ly 7, 1882. — Ordered to be in-iiited. 



Members of committee. — Senator Z. B. Yauce, of North Carolina, chair- 
man ; Senator J. W. McDill, of Iowa ; Senator J. I. Mitchell, of Penn- 
sylvania. 

Washington, 1). C, June 7, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. in. 

W. G. Bogle sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. You are a resident of the sixth collection district of North 
Carolina ? — Answer. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where is your residence— in what i)art of the district ? — A. Tay- 
lorsville. 

Q. Have you ever been connected with the revenue departmeiit in 
that district! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what capacity ? — A. Storekeeper and ganger. 

ii. How long- ? — A. I suppose about three years. 

Q. What are the duties of a storekeeper and ganger? It is a double 
office, ganger and storekeeper combined, is it not"? — A. Yes, sir; the 
duties are, that you are put in charge of a distillery, to see that it is 
running according to law, and to gauge the spirits and stamp them. 

Q. Describe a day's work at a distillery ; what time of the morning it 
would begiu its operations, and whether you would have to be present. — 
A. You have to be there when the distillery commences in the morning ; 
when they put the fire on, it is the storekeeper's duty to be there and to 
stay until the fire is drawn away from the furnace in the exening. 

Q. What was the capacity per day of the distillery at which you were 
engaged ? — A. I have been at several distilleries. One was 3| and the 
other 1 bushels. 

Q. Do you know anything about the nniltiplying of distilleries — mak- 
ing two or three small ones out of one large one — in that district ? — A. 
No, s-r. 



■I "'' 

2 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN ' ', ^ 



22- 



Q. You do not know of any instances where that has been done? — A. 
Not of my own personal knowledge. 

Q. Do you know of any instances where one man would own two or 
three stills on the same plantation or near to it? — A. Yes, sir; 1 don't 
know whether on the same plantation, but very near. 

Q. What would be the capacity per day of such stills ? — A. Three 
and a lialf to four bushels a day. 

Q. If these had been in one, the capacity would have been about 
twelve bushels "? — A. No, sir ; eight. 

Q. Eight for two stills % — A. Twelve for three. 

Q. Was it the same expense to the government to run two or three 
distilleries as it was to run one or more '? — A. I would say it would be 
more to run two or three. 
" Q. Why % — A. It requires two or three storekeepers. 

Q. A storekeeper to every distillery however small?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There have been allegations that storekeepers sometimes divided 
their pay with the distillers in order to get the distilleries to run ; is 
that so? — A. I have heard of it. 

Q. Do you know of your own knowledge of any such case % — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Or from the knowledge or confession of any of the parties ! — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. You say you have heard of such things % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could you tell me at what distilleries it was said that was done % — 
A. I have heard of so many — generally rumored. 

Q. You do not want to say what particular ones ?— A. Daniels. 

Q. How many distilleries did Daniels have? — A. Three, I believe. 
That is all I know of. 

Q. How far were they apart ?— A. Two of them within 100 yards of 
each other. 

Q. What was their capacity? — A. Four bushels, I believe. 

Q. How far was the third one away % — A. I suppose about 10 miles. 

Q. Who were the storekeepers to these three distilleries of Daniels'? 
—A. Various storekeepers. I have forgotten their names. Mr. Mor- 
rison there (indicating) was o]ie for a while. Mr. Douglass and several 
others, I can't think of their names now. 

Q. Can you mention any others that were said to have this operation 
of dividing ?— A. I have heard that in regard to almost all of the dis- 
tilleries down there — Coopei's and all of them. 

Q. It is the common rumor and understanding? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there ever such a thing as an assessment levied on you, as 
an officer, for political purposes? — A. I was asked by the collector to 
contribute to the campaign fund. 

Q. When ? — A. It was after the election. 

Q. What election ? — A. The Gariield campaign. I don't know how 
many months after — I think several mouths after the campaign. 

Q." Did you do so ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much did you contribute ? — A. $104. 

Q. What proportion of your salary was that amount ?— A. One mouth's 
salary. 

Q. Did you ever contribute more than once? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever been asked more than once? — A. No, sir. I was 
assessed for office expenses there one per cent, off my salary each mouth. 

Q. What office expenses — the collector's office? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any others that paid this assessment? — A. Y^es, 
sir. 



, THE SIXTH DISTRICT ^F NORTH CAROLINA. 3 

Q. Was it uiulerstood that they were all assessed iu the same way 

■every one of the officers? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many do y(ni suppose were subject to that assessment f— A. 
I don't know. All the officers of the district, 1 presume. 

Q. Can you give me any idea of the aggregate amount collected iu 
that way ?— A. JSTo, sir; I cannot. I have heard rumor of how much it 
was— heard it was said to be between $20,000 and 125,000 -, but I have 
uo idea of it. 

Q. On the supposition that all were assessed as you were, and as you 
heard others were, I presume it would make at least that much, would 
it not?— A. Yes, sir; if all were assessed as I was it would. 

Q. Had you any idea where that money went to ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you told ?— A. The collector told me he was behind. I be- 
lieve he said he liad borrowed money for campaign purposes and he had 
to pay it back. 

Q. Do you know of any one who refused to pay it ?— A. No, sir; uot 
■of my own personal knowledge. 

Q. Have you ever heard of any who have refused to pay it ?— A. I 
don't believe I have. 

Q. Do you know whether some of the collector's appointees were of 
different politics from the collector; some of them were Democrats 
when they received their appointment, were they not? — A. Yes sir. 

Q. Do you know whether or not tliey were expected to change tlieir 
politics when they took the position?— A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know whether those who were Democrats contributed to 
pay this assessment, as the rest of you did? — A. I do not, sir. 

Q. Do you know how that was ?-^A. No, sir. 

C^. Do you know of any who were discharged on account of their 
votes ? — A. I don't know. I have heard only of one man who was dis- 
charged. 

Q. Who was he ?— A. Capt. Thos. A. Price. 

Q. Do you know whether there Avere a great many, or any number of 
storekeepers and gangers without assignment, as it is called ?— A. I 
declare I don't know, sir. I don't know the number of distilleries' in 
tJie district, nor the number of storekeepers, exactly. 

Q. Did you have any knowledge of men appointed storekeepers, who 
were waiting for something to do— some appointment?— A. Yes, sir- I 
have seen storekeepers appointed, who did uot get any work for a lono- 
time. * 

Q. Do you know why they were appointed when there was no work 
for them to do ?— A. Nc, sir; I don't. 
By Senator McDill : 

Q. Ill what years were you storekee])er? You said you were so about 
three years.— A. I think I was appointed in 1877-'78. I will sav 1870 
and '80. "^ 

Q. You quit work as ganger and storekeeper in the year 1880?— A. 
No, sir; I quit work in 1881. I think it must have been 1879, '80, and 

Q. About what time in the year '81 did you quit work?— A. I think 
it was in the month of October. 

Q. Last October? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know any reason why Mr. Daniels, for instance, had two 
distilleries with a capacity of 4 bushels, so near together? — A. No sir 

Q. You only know tlie fact that he had them ?— A. Yes, sir.' ' 

Q. What is the smallest distillery that can run ?— A. Three and a half 
bushels is the smallest. 



4 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Tliose of Daniels were the smallest f — A. I think Lis were 4 bushels.. 

Q. Where does Mr. Daniels live*? — A. He lives at Statesville. 

Q. These distilleries were in the town of Statesville? — A. IsTo, siry, 
but near. 

Q. He had one 10 miles away from where the two were together ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You have no personal knowledge of any division between the 
storekeepers and distillers— all you know about it is rumor ? — A. Yes^ 
sir; rumor. 

Q. Do you make any distinction in your mind between assessment 
for office expenses and contributions for campaign funds ; they are two 
different things, are they not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. This assessment for office exj^enses was one per cent, of your 
monthly salary, was it not?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did that last ? — A. I think I contributed about four or 
Jive months. 

Q. Do you remember the time you did so ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have j^ou any recollection of it being at a time when there was a 
deficiency in the appropriation ? — A. I don't know about that. 

Q. Was there any explanation at the time you were assessed as to 
the reason for the assessment? — A. 1 think there was, but have forgot- 
ten what it was. 

Q. You remember, however, that it was for office expenses ? — A, It 
was for office expenses. There was some excuse for assessing us, but I 
don't know what it was now. 

Q. That only lasted three or four months ? — A. I think I contributed 
four or five months. 

Q. After that you were not assessed for office expenses ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. W^hen you were asked to contribute to the campaign fund did you 
do so voluntarily? — A. Yes, sir; I told the collector I would contribute 
of course. I was willing to contribute. 

Q. When you spoke of the amount of the fund as $20,000 or $25,000, 
were you speaking of the amount for office expenses that the men con- 
tributed? — A. Of the amount contributed for campaign purposes. 

Q. You have heard that there was a contribution to that amount ? — 
A. Yes, sir; I have heard it. 

Q. Of that you have no personal knowledge? — A. No, sir; I don't 
know. 

Q. Where does Capt. Thos. A. Price live? — A. I don't know where 
now^ ; he did live in Statesville. He is running as conductor on the 
Western North Carolina Eailroad. 

Q. A storekeeper would necessarily be off duty if the distillery shut 
up to which he belonged? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q, Is that sometimes the reason why a number of storekeepers are 
without assignment? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When a distillery suspends operations? — A. When a distillery 
suspends, the storekeeper is off duty until assigned to some other dis- 
tillery, or until that distillery resumes. 

Q. The distillers have control of that matter and can shut off' Avheu 
they please? — A. Yes, sir. They have to notify the collector that they 
are going to suspend on a certain day. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Had you applied for your monthly pay before this contribution 
they got you to make for campaign purposes, and it had been held 
back? — A. The check I contributed. I had asked for it I had written 
for it. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 5 

Q. Had it been payable to you before that time?— A. Before I gave 
it to the collector '? 

Q. Yes. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You had asked for it? — A. I had written to the office for it. 

Q. JMore than once ? — A. I think twice. 

Q. Did you go to the office for it? — A. Yes, sir; I went to the office 
for it. There was anotlier check due me. 

Q. Just exphiiu the transaction. — A. When I went to the office there 
was another check due me for another mouth, and I called on Mr. Coite 
for the check. He gave me the check that was due nie for the last 
month, and told me to go in and see the collector with regard to my 
June check. 

().. Previous to the check you had just received ? — A. Yes, sir. I went 
ill to see the collector with regard to it and he asked me to give it to 
him. 

Q. What are your polities'? — A. I am a Republican, sir. 

A. D. CowLES sworn and examined. 
By the Chaiuman : 

Question. State your residence and occupation. — Answer. States- 
ville, X. C. ; deputy clerk of the United States court. 

Q. Have you ever been connected with the Eeveuue Department! — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what capacity? — A. Storekeeper and deputy collector. 

Q. Explain to us the method of subdivision of the distilleries in that 
country. — A. I don't know, sir; I was connected with the revenue in 
'76 and '77, and that was when the distilleries were but very few, and 
before any such reports as division was talked of at all. 

Q. Do you know the fact that there are several distilleries made into 
two or three — or two or three on the same plantation ; and belonging 
to the same man ? — A. Nothing of my own i^ersonal knowledge ; I have 
heard so. 

Q. Is it not the general understanding in that country, that whoever 
wants to, can run, instead of one 1 2-gallon still, three J:-gallou stills, if he 
will take the trouble to do it ? — A. I have not heard it generally spoken 
of; I have heard of one or two instances, one notably. 

Q. Which one is that?— A. Mr. Daniels. 

Q. Do you know anything of the division of storekeepers' salaries 
with the distillers? — A. No, sir; nothing of my own knowledge. 

Q. What do you know about political assessments ? — A. I don't know 
anything, only rumor. I have heard several storekeepers and gangers 
say they contributed to the campaign fund, and several affidavits were 
made before me, as deputy clerk of the United States court, to that effect. 
I know nothing further than that. 

Q. Do you know or have you an idea from what you know about the 
matter, of the aggregate amount thus contributed? — A. I have heard it 
variously estimated, but there is nothing deiinite. 

Q. Do you know the number of government employes in that district? 
— A. No, sir. 

Q. You have no way of arriving at the amount of the aggregate as- 
sessment, unless you knew all of them? — A. No, sir; not at all. A 
great many deputy collectors, storekeepers, and gangers are off duty 
some of the time. As I understood it from storekeepers generally, 
those not on assignment were not assessed. 

Q, Those not at work? — A. Not at work at the time. That is the 
report. 



b COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Do you know wliether any storekeepers have been appointed, and 
have waited for montlis and months without getting any assignment f 
— A. No, sir. 

Q. Mr. Bogle tells us that when a distillery suspended the storekeeper 
was necessarily without employment until another was started. I want 
to know of any instance where a storekeeper has been appointed and 
then had to wait, and never had an assignment. — A. jSTo, sir 5 I don't 
know of such instances as that. 

Q. Do 5^ou know of any man discharged for not voting the Eepubli- j 
can ticket? — A. No, sir; I don't think the collector ever makes any^ 
such stipulation. He has appointed many Democrats, and some of them 
have changed of their own will. 

Q. Just as they made contributions? — A. I don't know about that. I 
have heard Oapt. John Peden, deputy collector in Wilkes County (he 
at one time was a very prominent Democrat in that county, and entered 
the revenue, and is a Eepublican now) ; I asked him just from curiosity 
on one occasion if the collector ever said anything to him about politics. 
He replied no; it had never been mentioned to him at all ; that he was^ 
conscientiously jjersuaded that the Eepublican party was the correct 
one; that he lived North a good while, and he had seen the Eepubli- 
can party was the party of the country. I have heard others of less- 
note make the same remark. 

Q. Was not the present collector, Mr. Cooper, awhile back, a Demo- 
crat.^ — A. Yes, sir; I think he joined the Eepublican party in '71 or 
72, probably '73. 

Q. And Mr. Sharpe, who was a Democrat, is he not now a Eepubli- 
can? — A. I don't know whether he is a Eepublican. I think he bolted 
from the Democratic convention. He is deputy collector under Mr. 
Cooper, and was under Dr. Mott. ' He represented his county in the 
legislature as a Democrat. 

Q. Was not Mr. Jim Williams a Democrat? — A. I think he was. 

Q. A very strong one? — A. Yes, sir; a strong one at one time. 

Q. AYhat position did he get? — A. Storekeeper. 

Q. When did he become a Eepublican? — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. About the same time he was appointed ? — A. Yes, sir; several 
years ago. He has been a revenue oiSlcer, I suppose, 6 or 8 years. 

Q. Quite a number of them, without mentioning their names in de- 
tail, were Democrats, but are now Eepublicans and ofi&ce-holders ? — A.. 
Yes, sir ; a great many of them were appointed as Democrats and are 
now Eepublicans. 

Q. Do you know of any instance where men were indicted for viola- 
tion of the revenue laws who were Democrats and who came out of the 
indictment as Eepublicans ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Is not that what is said of Mr. Cooper? — A. I have heard it inti- 
mated. I don't know, of my own knowledge, that that is the case. 

Q. Have you any idea of the amount of loss to the government by 
this multiplication of stills? — A. None at all. My department is en- 
tirely different. I am not very familiar with the routine of duties 01 
the revenue service, and know nothing of the profits and losses. 

Q. How long did you stay as storekeeper ? — A. I was on duty for 
about 2 mouths. I was deputy collector after that for one year. 

Q. What are your politics ? — A. Eepublican. 

Q. You did not have to change ? — A. No, sir ; I was born a Eepubli- 
can — in '56, with the Eepublican party. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. Senator Vance asked you about Democrats becoming Eepublicans. 



( 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 7 

ITave you any knowledge of Democrats turning over without getting 
office? — A. oil J yes, sir. 

Q. There is a sort of a revolution going on there in public sentiment ? — 
A. Yes, sir; it is reported so. 

Q. So it is an exodus of the Democrats not confined to those holding 
office? — A. ISTo, sir; not confined to that class, 

B^; the Chairman : 

Q. You have not heard of one turning over to be a Republican with- 
out the hope of getting an office? — A. Yes, sir; in several instances. 
A prominent man in our place. Colonel Sharpe, now postmaster, became 
a Republican in 1870. He was not appointed postmaster until 1880. 
He became a Republican, I presume, from correct principles and con- 
scientious motives. 

Q. You say there is an exodus down there ; what makes the exodus 
there ; what is the issue among the people ? — A. It is anti-prohibition 
Democrats who seem to be dissatisfied with the action of the prohibition 
Democrats, as they call them. 

Q. For what ? — A. For trying to force on them the sumptuary law 
which was defeated by a majority of 110,000 in our State, and they are 
going to unite with the Republican party ; the Liberal movement, I be- 
lieve it is called. At least that is reported. 

Q. To beat the prohibitionists ? — A. Yes, sir; and the Democracy. 

Q. Is it understood down there that the Republican party is the 
liquor party of the country, and the Democracy" is the party of temper- 
ance? — A. Well, sir, there are about 20,000 prohibition Republicans in 
the State. 

Q. How mauv votes were cast for prohibition ? — A. About 50,000, I 
think. 

Q. And 20,000 of them were Republican ?— A. Dr. Mott puts it at 
4,000, but the North State puts it at 20,000. 

Q. You do not say that it is considered down there that the Demo- 
cratic party is the party of temperance, and the Republican part}" the 
party of free liquor ? — A. I do not know, sir, w^hether you can classify 
it or not in that way. 

Q. The movement against prohibition was irrespective of party. 
Democrats and Republicans, all united ? — A. Yes, sir ; irrespective of 
party. 

Q. Some prohibitionists were Republicans and some Democrats; the 
majority, perhaps, of the prohibitionists were Democrats ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is about the truth of the whole matter ? — A. I think so. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. That movement came by the legislature proposing to amend the 
constitution, to submit a law to the people ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the political complexion of that legislature ? — A. Largely 
Democratic, although some Republicans voted with the majority. 

Q. But the majority were Democratic? — A. Yes, sir. 
By the Chairman : 

Q. The majority of the Republicans in the legislature voted for the 
bill ? — A. My impression is that a majority did not, but that some Re- 
publicans voted for the measure; I am not well posted. 

W^. C. Morrison sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. How long were you storekeeper and ganger in the service 



COLLECTIO]N OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

of the sixth internal revenue collection district of Ii^orth Carolina? — 
Answer. I went in in December, 1878. 

Q. How long" did you stay in"? — A. I have been at work up to the 
past June, 1881. 

Q. Where were you most of the time assigned for duty? — A. I was 
at several places — in Catawba, Davie and Iredell Counties. 

Q. Can you give us any information upon this question that I have 
asked the other witnesses in your presence — the division of distilleries ? — 
A. Ko, sir. 

Q. Do you know of cases where one man owns more than one distil- 
lery"? — A. Yes, sir; Mr. Daniels owns more than one, or did. 

Q. Did anybody else "? — A. Not that I know of; I have heard of one 
who was in Davie County, a Mr. Bailey, and have understood that Mr. 
Cooper owned several. 

Q. Do you know the capacity of each one? — A. jIsTo, sir; I do not. 

Q. That, I suppose, necessitated the employment of additional store- 
keepers and gangers for every distillery *? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know anything of the division of salaries or pay between 
the storekeepers and gaugers and distillers"? — A. ISTo, sir; I do not. 

Q. jSTothing of that soi-t? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do the distillers have any hand in selecting the storekeepers?— 
A. I don't know about that. 

Q. Do you know whether the distillers were consulted at all about 
it ? — A. I don't know personally. 

Q. Do you know of any cases where the storekeepers boarded with 
the distillers? — A. Yes, sir; when not near town they have to board 
with the distillers. 

Q. Do you know what the price of board was ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where did you board when you were on these various assign- 
ments ? — A. I boarded with a distiller in Davie County. 

Q. What did he charge you for board? — A. Eight dollars a month. 

Q. Was that the usual price for that country? — A. I don't know 
what was the usual price. 

Q. It was a fair price ? — A. Yes, sir. In Catawba County I boarded 
in town. 

Q. Do you know of any political assessments levied upon the offi- 
cers '? — A. The 1 per cent, business ? 

Q. Political assessments for political purposes? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State what you know about it. — A. They wanted the storekeepers 
and guagers to pay to the campaign fund, the way I understood it. 

Q. Were you called upon ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For how much?— A. I paid $108. 

Q. What per cent, of your salary was that? — A. For one month, July, 
1880. 

Q. Will you explain the circumstances under which you contributed 
that? — A. Yes, sir. The deputy collector, Mr. Gillespie, brought that 
check to me, and I signed the check. 

Q. He came to you with a blank check for the month of July? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. What did he say to you ? — A. He said there was something he 
would like me to sign; he had several others along; that others had 
been signing them, and pulled out one or two that had been signed, and 

1 just indorsed and signed it. 

Q. He said others had signed them, and drew them out and asked you 
to sign yours, and you did so ? — A. Yes, sir. 
Q. What became of the money? — A. I don't know, sir. 



THE 8IXTII DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 

Q. Did you bear anything' of it afterwards ? — A. No, sir ; nothing more 
than 1 got a letter from Washington thanking me for the $25 I had sent 
them. 

Q. You got a letter from Washington '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. By whom was that letter signed ? — A. By Commissioner Eaura, I 
think. ^ 

Q. Thanking you for what ?— A. The |25 I sent. 

Q. Had you sent IMr. Raum any money ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever ask Collector Mott or Deputy Collector Gillespie 
what became of the money f — A. I was in the oftice when another check 
was due, and I asked Mr. Coite Avhat became of the other. He said I 
would have to see the collector about that; he did not know anything 
about it. 

Q. Did you ever pay any office expenses; were you ever assessed for 
that purpose ? — A. Yes, sir ; 1 i)er cent, on my salary. I don't remem- 
ber how much I paid. 

Q. You know of others having paid the same assessment, do you?— 
A. Yes, sir; several paid I know of. 

Q. For both purposes — office expenses and the campaign? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Have you an idea, or have you heard or understood from anybody 
connected witli the service, how much it all amounted to? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know how many officers and employes there were in that 
collection district at that time? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Therefore you cannot form an idea? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You understood they were all being assessed one mouth's salary? — 
A. All that I knew were being- assessed the same way. 

Q. Did Mr. Gillespie give you any understanding as to that when he 
asked you to subscribe one month's salary ; did he say that was what 
the others were doing? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What are your politics '? — A. I am a Republican. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. When Mr. Gillespie brought you the check, and asked you to give 
that amount to the campaign fund, you say you signed the check; did 
you do so voluntarily ? — A. Yes, sir; I signed the check. 

Q. You were willing to contribute that amount? — A. He had not told 
me the amount, but that the rest had signed, and I told him I would. 

Q. This was your check for July, 1880? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you remember how long after July it was when you signed it ? — 
A. I don't. It seems to me it was in> the month of July he brought it 
to me. 

Q. How long after that was it, that you received this letter thanking 
you for your contribution? — A. I don't remember how long. 

Q. It must have been along in the fall of the year? — A. I don't re- 
member what the date of the letter was ; I don't remember what I did 
with the letter. 

Q. Have you not got the letter ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You said you think it was from Mr. Raum ? — A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. You feel quite sure about that ? — A. I think his name was signed 
to it, sir : I am not positive. 

Q. Do you remember what the letter said; was it just simply thank- 
ing you for your contribution of |25 ? — A. There was more than that in 
it, but I don't remember what it was. 

Q. At the time did you understand it was a receipt or acknowledg- 
ment from some one that you had contributed to this fund for campaign 



10 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL KEVENUE IX 

exj)en8es ! — A. I did not know wliat it was for 5 I had never sent them 
any money. 

Q. Did you write to Mr. Eaum and ask him what it meant "? — A. ISTo 
sir. 

Q. When yon went back to the office you talked to Deputy Collector 
Coite about it ? — A. When he came with the check I asked him what 
became of the July check. He said he did not know ; 1 would have to 
see the collector about that. 

Q. Did you show Mr. Coite this letter ?— A. IsTby-sir. 

Q. Did you tell him about it 1 — A. ^o, sir ; I never told anybody- 
about it. 

Q. You don't know to this day what that letter meant "? — A. I don't 
know who sent the money. 

Q. You don't know what it meant 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. And you never asked any explanation abont it 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Is the letter sent to yon iu existence? — A. I don't know where 
it is. 

Q. Have you looked for it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Will you, when yon go home, look for it ? — A. I have been in sev- 
eral places since then, and don't know where it is. 

Q. Will yon make search for it when you get home ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you send it to the committee ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you remember hoM^ long this assessment for office exjjenses 
lasted ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Can you fix the time when that was made ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You do not remember whether there Avas a deficiency in the ap- 
propriation "? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you remember W'ho asked you to do that ? — A. I do not. 

Q. How was it done ? Was it kept out of your pay, or were you asked 
to give 1 per cent. ■? — A. Just asked to give 1 per cent., and when I drew 
the check I paid it. When I was away I sent it back to them. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Do you know who was chairman of the Republican State executive 
committee that year ? — A. No, sir. 
Adjourned till 10 a. m. Jnne 8. 



Washington, D. C, June 8, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. 
A. D. CowLES recalled and examined. 

By the Chairman : . 

Question. Do you recollect the indictment against R. A. Cobb f — 
Answer. No, sir; I do not recollect the indictment, but I am satisfied 
that he was indicted in the United States court at our i^lace. 

Q. In the court of which you are deputy clerk ? — A. I think proba- 
bly before I had anything to do with the office. 

Q. Have you ever seen his indictment on the record ? — A. I don't 
remember, but I am satisfied it is there. 

Q. Do you know what has become of the indictment 1 — A. No, sir ; 
I don't know the disposition of the case. 

Q. Do yon know what he was indicted for ! — A. I think for compli- 
city in frauds of some kind. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 11 

Q. He was a reveiine officer ? — A. That was what be was discharged 
from the revenue for. 

Q. Do yoii kuow hoAV long it was l)efore lie was restored ?— A. l^o, 
sir; but he was restored. 

Q. And is still a revenue officer? — A. I don't know whether he is at 
present or not. I know he was after this indictment. 

Q. You do not know what disposition was made of the indictment f — 
A. No, sir ; I don't. 

Q. Do you know what disposition was made of the indictment against 
William S. Pearson and Nick Lillington and others ? — A. I don't. 

Q. You kuow they were indicted ? — A. No, sir. That was several 
years ago if so. I have only been connected with the court about three 
years. That was before I had anything to do with it. 

Q. Do you know of any men who have been discharged from office, 
or who have failed to get assignment, because of their refusal to divide 
with the distillers ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Has any one told you that such has been the case ; that they had 
been refused assignment because they would not divide their pay with 
the distillers ? — A. Yes, sir ; Mr. J. B. Howell told me that a man made 
a proposition of that kind to 4iim; at least it did not come in so many 
words ; they have a secret language of their own, and he understood it 
to mean that he had to divide. He did not accede to the proposition, 
and the man refused to take him. 

Q. He was not assigned to that place? — A. Not assigned. 

Q. Did Mr. O. M. Barkley ever tell you that he had been through 
some experience of that kind with Mr. Eliason'? — A. I heard him say 
that Colonel Eliason wanted his check. 

Q. Colonel Eliason was a distiller? — A. Yes, sir; and Barkley was 
storekeeper. 

Q. Colonel Eliason asked him for his check. What did he say took 
place ? — A. He said he would not give it to him, and they had a kind 
of row, and somebody else was assigned to the distillery; that is my 
impression. 

Q. Barkley was removed from that distillery? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And somebody else was assigned to it? — A. I don't know whether 
lie was removed or quit of his own accord, but another assigninent was 
made. 

Q. He went away from there, and another man was put in his place ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you kuow anything of, or ever see or hear of a circular letter 
from the collector's office inquiring as to the politics of all the officers ? — 
A. No, sir; I never saw it. 

Q. Did you hear of such a letter? — A. I could not say positively 
whether I ever did or not; my impression is I never heard of the letter. 
I suppose that was after my connection with the office. 

By Senator McDill: 

Q. With regard to the indictment against Mr. Cobb, I understand 
you that you have no knowledge about it, only a general impression? — 
A. Just my impression. I have heard others say he was indicted in 
the United States court, and Dr. Mott, in his list of those discharged, 
puts him down as discharged for complicity in frauds. 

Q. You never saw the indictment, and know nothing about it, nor the 
reason for his discharge ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Except the reason given to the public by Dr. Mott ? — A. By Dr. 
Mott. 



12 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. You do not know whether Pearson and Lillington were indicted ?- 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Where does Howell live? — A. In Statesville. 

Q. Is he living there now? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You do not know anything about this proposition made to Mr. 
Howell, except what he told you? — A. I don't know a thing about it. 

Q. And what he told you was that a man talked to him in a secret 
language? — A. In some language. 

Q. And then Howell told you what he understood? — A. What he un- 
derstood. 

Q. That is all you know about the proposition? — A. All I know. 

Q. In the Barkley case, Colonel Eliason was a distiller? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And Barkley told you that Eliason wanted his check ? — A. Asked 
him for his check. 

Q. He wouhl not give it to him and they had a row "about it? — A. 
They had what might be called a row. 

Q. And the next thing was that Barkley left that distillery and some- 
body else was assigned to it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You do not know whether Barkley -requested to be removed, nor 
anything about it? — A. No, sir; I don't know the circumstances. 

Q. You never saw the circular from the collector's of&ce asking about 
the politics of the officers? — A. No, sir. 

W. G. Bogle recalled and examined. 
By the Ohaie,man : 

Question. Do you know of the circular letter addressed to the officers 
"inquiring as to their politics? — Answer. Yes, sir; I got a letter of that 
kind. 

Q. Gould you produce it to me ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Whom was it signed by? — A. I have forgotten whether it was 
signed by Dr. Mott or not. My imj^ression is it was. 

Q. At all events, it purported to come from that office? — A. Yes, sirj 
and I answered to that office. 

Q. What was the substance of that letter? Give it from your recol- 
lection.— A. I doi^t think I can give it. It wanted to know what my 
X:)olitics were. That was the meaning of it — all I remember, sir. 

Q. Do you know if that letter was addressed to the officers generally ? — 
A. I think it was. 

Q. It was a circular, or something of that sort? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of anybody that was discharged for failing to comply 
with the requirements of the collector in regard to voting? — A. Only 
Captain Price, as I stated yesterday. 

Q. Do you know anything about a letter addressed by Commissioner 
Eaum to the officers of that district, inquiring if they had received all 
their pay from the collector, &c.? Perhaps (handing letter) that will 
refresh your recollection. — A. (Reading.) Yes, sir; that is the letter. 

Letter marked Exhibit 1, as follows : 

Exhibit 1. 

Washington, Jan'y 26, 1882. 
Sir: It has been reported to this office that officers and emj)loy6s in the sixth dis- 
trict of North Carolina have not received from the collector the money due them for 
their services. You will please state explicitly by return mail whether Collector Mott 
is indebted to you on account of any receipt which you have given to him by virtue 
of your services as an officer or employ^ of the government. This inquiry is not made 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 13 

upon the theory that this office believes Dr. Mott to have been derelict, but because 
his official conduct in this regard has by certain parties been brought in question, 

i Respectfullv, 

! " GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissioner. 

Q. I.'^ that a copy of the letter? — A. That is a copy of the Comiiiis- 
sioiier's letter. 

Q. Did you see the original ? — A. Yes, sir. 

(,). Will you say Ayhether you know anything about how that was 
communicated by the collector to the officers, and whether he dictated 
the form of reply they were to make to it? — A. I don't remember about 
that. 

Q. Perhaps (handing another letter) that will refresh your recollec- 
tion"? — A. (Reading.) Yes, sir. 

Q. Just explain that paper you have in your hands, if you please. 

Letters marked Exhibit 2, as follows: 

Exhibit 2. 
" Copy this.'' 
"Write some thing like this." 

Statesvio.k, N. C, 

Jan'y 28, 1882. 
Hon. Grkex B. Ravm, 

Commissioner Int. Rerenue, JFashington, D. C: 
Sir: Replying to your letter of the 2Gth iust., asking whether Collector Mott is in- 
debted to me on acconnt of any receipt which I have given, &c., I have the honor to 
inform you that I have always received my pay promptly, and that the collector does 
not owe me anything at all. 
Respectfullv, 

O. M. BARKLEY, 

U. S. S. .;• G. 

SXATESVILLE, N. C, 

Jan'y 31, 1882. 
Hon. C. J. FoLGER, 

Secretary of the Treasury, Washington, D. C. : 
Sir: The foregoing is a true and exact copy of a letter accompanying one of in- 
quiry to the specitied storekeeper and ganger relative to certain charges, &c., /pre- 
ferred against the collector. Whether this form for a reply was issued from the collec- 
tor's ottice of this district or from the office of the Commissioner Int. Revenue at 
Washington I am unable to say. The letter of inquiry was signed by Hon. Green 
B. Raum. 

Very respectfullv, 

W. G. BOGLE. 

The foregoing form was not signed by Mr, Barklej' himself, although marked so, 
and by referring to his letter, dated .Jan'y 31, 1882, you will tind that another person 
answered for him. 

A. It seems that Mr. Barkley got this form of letter, in company 
with a letter from the Commissioner, to answer by, showing Mr. Bark- 
ley how to answer the Commissioner's letter. 

Q. That form of answer went out with a copv of the Commissioner's- 
letter to each officer— went to Mr. O. M. Barkley?— A. Yes, sir; I 
don't know only as to Mr, Barkley. 

Q. I see ill a note appended there that that answer was not signed 
by Mr. Barkley '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q, Although it purported to be ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did somebody else sign the answer form and send it on ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Where did you get that information ? — A. I think from the gen- 
tleman that signed Mr. Barklev's name. 



14 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Who was he ?— A. Mr. Hall Caldwell. 

Q. Did he tell you he signed the answer for Barkley ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether Barkley was present or not at the time, or 
bad authorized him to sign it ? — A. I don't remember. I think Mr. 
Barkley authorized him to sign it, and gave him the letter from the 
commissioner, and also this form of answer, and told him to answer. 

Q. And he answered for Barkley f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was Mr. Hall Caldwell an officer of the revenue department? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were these marginal remarks in the original letter that you 
copied this from '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (Quoting.) " Copy this." "Write something like this" ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Do you know whether these prepared forms and answers went 
ont to anybody else except Mr. Barkley 1 — A. I don't remember, sir. 

Q. Do you remember any one telling you to that effect ? — A. 'No, sir ; 
I don't now remember. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. You wrote this letter addressed to Mr. Folger, signed W. G-. Bogle 
(indicating Exhibit 2) ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say you do not know whether the form that is on the other 
side of this paper, marked Exhibit 2, was, with another letter from the 
commissioner, sent to Mr. Barkley ? — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. And you do not know anything about that, except by the state- 
ment of the person who wrote the letter? — A. I saw the letter. 

Q. You saw the letter? — A. Yes, sir; that is the way I got a copy of 
the form and also the Commissioner's letter. 

Q. So that your knowledge of its having been sent with the letter is 
from the statement of the person who showed it to you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who is that person ?— A. Mr. Hall Caldwell. 

Q. Mr. Barkley never told you it accompanied it? — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. Mr. Hall Caldwell told you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did Mr. Caldwell say about this form ? — A. I don't remem- 
ber what he said about it. 

Q. Did he tell you that it accompanied the letter of the Commissioner ? — 
A. I presume so. I presume it did. 

Q. You do not recollect f I want to know exactly what you recollect 
Mr. Caldwell said. — A. 1 do not remember what he said. I could not 
say. 

Q. You would not undertake to say that he told you the form accow' 
panied the letter? — A. I would not say he did. I don't remember the 
conversation about it. 

Q. All that you distinctly remember is, that Mr. Caldwell told you 
that Mr. Barkley handed him the Commissioner's letter, with a form of 
a letter which was to be written, and Barkley's name signed to it? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And that thereupon Mr. Caldwell did sign Barkley's name and 
sent it on. You do not know whether Barkley had indicated the form 
of the letter he wanted, nor how it came that that form was adoj^tedl — 
A I don't think Barkley got up that form of reply. 

Q. Do you know whether he did or did not? — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. You simply know Caldwell was authorized to write a letter, and a 
form was furnished him from which he was to write? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But who furnished the form, or what the circumstances were of 
furnishing the form, you do not know? — A. No, sir. 



THE .SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 15 

{}. aSO answer was dictated to you — you got a similar letter of in- 
quiry ? — A. I don't remember that I did. 

Q. When you Avere in office you got a circular from the collectoi-'s 
office asking about politics ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it asking your own personal politics, or about the politics of 
the officers generally? — A. About my own politics. 

Q. You think it was a printed form of circular, or was it a written 
letter? — A. I don't know whether printed or written, but it was a cir- 
cular letter. They sometimes wrote them and sometimes printed them — 
the circular letters. 

Q. In what way do you distinguish a circular letter from another let- 
ter! Of course if printed you understood it to be a circular, but would 
you know the particular form of a circular letter, outside of the fact 
that it is printed? In other words, if I should write you a letter, you 
would not call that a circular letter? — A. ^o, sir. 

Q. Why do you say then that it was a circular letter?— A. I think 
all the officers got the same letter. 

Q. You think so; probably that was an inference you formed since 
then, or at the time; what was to indicate that this was a circular let 
ter? — A. I don't know, sir. I don't know anything to indicate it. 

Q. May it not be that you have got the idea it was a circular letter — 
A. (Interrupting). It might have been marked such. 

Q. l^ou remtjmber at the time you thought that was a circular letter, 
from the fact that every one was getting it? — A. Yes, sir. Every one 
Avere receiving them at the same time that I received it. 

Q. You don't know whether they did get the letter? — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. All that was in the letter was asking your politics? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The purpose of which you do not know? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was it accompanied by any threat or intimation that if not of the 
right politics you would have to go? — A. I think not. 

i). It was just a simple inquiry? — A. Yes, sir. 

John C. Bakkley sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. I reside in Iredell County. 
Korth Carolina, within a few miles of Statesville. 

Q. What is your age?— A. I will be sixty-two years old in November. 

Q. Do you know anything about the distilleries of W. A. Daniels? 

A. Yes, sir; I know where they are located. 

Q. Do you kn(fw how many he had in operation last year and pre- 
viously?— A. He had two distilleries on Avhat is called the llickett 
place. 

Q. What was their capacity ?— A. The last capacity was four bushels 
a day of each one. 

Q. How far were they apart? — A. I suppose seventy-live or one hun- 
dred yards. It is on the same branch. They got the water from the 
same fountain. 

Q. Do you know if they were originally one ?— A. They used to run 
at the u])per distillery, with an eight-busliel capacity in the upper 
house ; then they divided and ran four bushels in each one. 

Q. Where Avere his other distilleries ?— A. He had another distillery 
north of me about six hundred vards— what is called the Shari) i)lace 
distillery. 

ii. How far was it from the other two ?— A. A little over half a mile, 
but still on the old Rickett place. 



16 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. It had beeii one plantation "? — A. It had been one plantation. 

Q. Did he have any other distillery besides those three ? — A. They 
have another distillery that they started up on the White plantation 
between where I live and the liickett place. 

Q. How far was it from the other three ? — A. Almost directly be- 
tween them. You start to go up from the Sharpe distillery and run off 
an air line, and it would leave the Freeze distillery a little south of the 
other. 

Q. How far was the farthest one from the other farthest one? — A. 
Three- qu.arters of a mile would cover the whole four. 

Q. What was the capacity of each one of them ? — A. Four bushels. 
Just during- that time, or a short time previous to that, I signed bonds 
to that effect, which I suppose i^ prima facie evidence of running a dis- 
tillery near Hickory. 

Q. That was in an adjoining county? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That makes five distilleries ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any others ? — A. Yes, sir ; there was another one 
running up at what was called 

Q. How far is Hickory from Statesville ? — A. About thirty-five miles 
from Statesville. The other one was called the Home distillery. This 
was at his own place — probably in Alexander County. 

Q. That makes six ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any other ? — A. No, sir ; I believe not. At one 
time he had run what was called the Rumijle distillery. 

Q. There were at one time seven in operation. Do you know the ca- 
pacity of all of them? — A. My understanding from Daniels was that 
they were all four bushels. 

Q. How many of these were in his own name? — A. All in his own 
name, so far as my information goes, except the Q. D. Freeze distillery. 

Q. Do you know whether he had any hand in choosing the storekeepers 
for these various distilleries?— A. I cannot say that I do — only from 
hearsay. 

t^. What was the general understanding about the manner in which 
these storekeepers were selected, whether the distiller had anything to 
say in the selection of them? — A. The people of the neighborhood — it 
was a very common rumor in the neighborhood that if Daniels did not 
get who he wanted as storekeeper, his distilleries would stop. I know 
frequently they did stop and then start up again. 

Q. Did they stop and start with the same storekeeper ? — A. There was ; 
generally a change. • 

Q. And then they started again ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What do yon know about the allegation that the storekeepers had 
to divide their salaries with the distillers? — A. From my own personal 
knowledge, I know nothing of that. I have heard it said that there 
was a division of money between them, but I do not know it. 

Q. Did you ever hear any distiller or storekeeper say that? — A, I 
heard one say so. i 

Q. Who was it?— A. W. A. H. Moore. j 

Q. He was the storekeeper? — A. He was the storekeeper at the Q. 
D. Freeze distillery. 

Q. Q. D. Freeze was the man he said divided with him? — A. No, sir; 
he said W. A. Daniels. He was the proper owner; Freeze was only a 
bogus name. He said Daniels took his check and drew his money. 
Theie was a debt coming to me from Moore, and I talked with him 
about it one day. He said, "Damn it, have you not got that moneyJ 
yet? Daniels promised to pay it when he took my check and drew myi 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 17 

money." He said, "I have not got but about tliirty-five or forty dollars 
for my services liere." I think his services commenced in September, 
and this was about the 1st of January following'. 

Q. During that time he had not received but thirty-five or forty dol- 
lars for his services ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where is Daniels' residence ? — A. He is down in Statesville. He 
got home from Virginia a few days ago. 

Q. Is he still distilling ? — A. He is running what is called the upper 
house, on the liickett Branch. 

Q. Do you know anything about the time that Daniels' storehouse 
and distillery was robbed ? — A. There have been several robberies 
there at three or four different warehouses ; but last October at this 
Freeze's still-house there was a big steal or robbing of some seven 
hundred odd gallons of whisky. 

Q. State what you know about it ; you were concerned, I believe, as 
the bondsman ? — A. I know cf it, for I was on the warehouse and dis-- 
tillers' bond. On the 25th of October, that house was entered by a 
key — that is what was sworn to by Mr. Coite — and robbed of nineteen 
barrels of liquor ranging from forty to forty-eight gallons to a barrel. 
There were not nineteen, two had been taken out of the house, had 
been tax-paid, and there was one "lost tribe" or barrel. One barrel 
never had been accounted for in any way. There were about $077 of 
taxes. The house where the liquor was taken out of — I was there with 
several of my neighbors, with Mr. McLeer and Mr. Brooks, govern- 
ment agents — there was no mark of robbery on the house in any shape 
or form. We examined it carefully because the house could have been 
broken into, but it was not broken into, and was only entered by a 
key. 

Q. That still-house was then under suspension ? — A. Yes, sir ; under 
suspension. 

Q. Do you know whose duty it was to have charge of that key when 
the distillery was under suspension ? — A. The general storekeeper was 
the only one — you know more about the law than I do. Col. W. Sharpe 
shippetl one barrel of this liquor away from there. I think Mr. Bogle 
took out one also. 

Q. Who was the general storekeeper of that district? — A. I am not 
sure whether it was Col. Wash Sharpe or who it was. It belonged 
strictly to Doctor Walter Mott, the general storekeeper and ganger. 
That is in his district. 

Q. Was he present when you made the examination — General Store- 
keeper Mott? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Who made the discovery and seizure showing the liquor had 
been moved out of the house f — A. It was common neighborhood rumor, 
because it is a thickly populated country and the wagons rattled very 
much when the liquor was taken out, and a storekeeper that belonged 
to another distillery below passed by my house and told me that the 
stills were gone out of the house, but he said, " I do not think the liquor 
is gone, for they have not hurt the house." That quieted me a little, 
for I w^as in a considerable fret. I was ignorant of all these things ex- 
cept my signature on the bonds, and you know that bore very hard on 
the old man. I was very unwell at that time. Directly afterwards Mr. 
Daniels came there himself and informed me of the report that the liquor 
was removed, and then of course the inquiries ran in every ditecrion 
and facts were obtained at once. There were enough runners there to 
run Washington City about that time. 

Q. Can you state where the liquor was found, all except the "lost 
S. Mis. 116 2 



18 COLLFCTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

tribe"? — A. Yes, sir; it was found about sixty yards northeast of the 
old Kickett building. 

Q. How far from the wareliouse from whence it had been removed "? — 
A. Between four and six hundred yards. 

Q. How was it found ? — A. It was buried there. It was a very i^ro- 
lific piece of ground 5 seventeen barrels of whisky were found in ground 
tliat was plowed the day before. 

Q. It was a quick crop ? — A. Yes, sir; I cannot raise liquor that way. 

Q. How far was this from the collector's ofSce in Statesville?— A. 
Just about a mile and a half. 

Q. Were any of the ofiicers from the collector's office present in help- 
ing to make the search — Chief Deputy Goite or Collector Mott ? — A. 
I saw Mr. Morrison, Mr. Gill, Mr. McLeer, and Mr. Brooks there that 
evening. Mr. Gill told me that the second probe he made into the 
ground he found a barrel of whisky, and finding one he found seventeen. 

Q. Did any storekeeper or gauger ever tell you that he could not get 
an assignment to act as storekeeper unless he agreed to divide with the 
distiller? — A. One man told me he did not expect to get any position, 
from this fact, that he would not divide his salary with any man. 

Q. Who was that?— A. His name is Thomas Osborne, a brother of 
John Osborne. 

Q. Do you know how long he had been a storekeeper without assign- 
ment? — A. He had just come and took charge of Daniels' still-house; 
whether they had commenced running out the house when he came 
there I am not able to say. It ran out and consequently he went away, 
and I do not know why it was that it did not start up any more with him. 

Q. He told you he did not expect to get any position because he 
would not divide? — A. Yes, sir; he would not divide with any man, 
and did not expect to get anything. There was also a man — a cousin's 
son of mine — by the name of Barkley ; they call him E. Barkley . I heard 
him and Frank Caldwell talking. He said he would not divide, but 
where he boarded with a man he would be very liberal in paying his 
board. 

Q. Was he a storekeeper, too? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know what was the general price of corn whisky in that 
country? — A. The price varied from one dollar and fifteen cents to a 
dollar forty and fifty cents a gallon by the barrel. I saw it go off at a 
dollar ten. I was on five or six bonds, and very often it took me about 
half the time to be signing bonds. 

Q. Did you ever hear any of the distillers say anything about making 
the storekeepers di\dde their pay with them? — A. I have heard Mr. 
Freeze say that when he started up that time they rather ran in on the 
boys; that Mr. J. ]::T. Summers was willing to divide with him. They 
had a squabble over it. He had not got his assignment, and he had 
Just thrown out his slop before Mr. McLeer and Mr. Crawford got there. 
I told him he ought not to run any risk with my name on his bonds. 

Q. What did you say about Mr. Summers? — A. Mr. Freeze told me 
lie had agreed to divide. 

Q. Is there any other fact that you know that would further the 
objects of this committee? — A. I do not know; I have told you that 
Mr. Coite swore to the truth that the house was entered only by a key. 

Q. Do you know of any men being discharged or refused assignment 
on account of their politics ? — A. I have heard it so said. 

Q. Have you heard any of the parties say so ? — A. I have heard 
John Bailey say so. 

Q. Was he storekee])er and gatiger? — A. Yes, sir; he had voted the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 19 

Democratic ticket, and consequently he had to go up. It was fre- 
quently said through the neighborhood that all that had voted that way 
would go up. A great many Democrats got in there for three or four 
dollars a day. Bill Dulan never got much patronage. 

Q. Never got assigned to much work ?— A. No, sir. James F. Watts, 
he refused to divide and refused to help make mashes. 

Q. What do you mean by that ? — A. To assist the distiller in making 
mashes. 

Q. Do you know anything about political assessments le\-ied upon 
the officers of the Revenue Department ? — A. Mr. Dulan told me he 
was notified to that effect, and John Kerr Bailey told me that they 
had been assessed and refused to pay it. At least Bailey did. I think 
Dulan did the same. Mr. Bailey told me that he never paid anything 
towards it. 

Q. What became of him ?— A. I do not know whether he resigned. 
He is in Lexington, N. C, in a tobacco factory. 

Q. Out of the department now f — A. Yes, sir. 

By Senator McDlll : 

Q. Where does this man Dulan live ?— A. In Statesville Township, 
3 miles from Statesville, on the Western North Carolina Railroad. 

Q. His name is William M. Dulan ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You stated that Mr. James F. Watts refused to divide and help 
make mashes. Do you know that of your own knowledge ? — A. That 
is just what he told me. 

Q. You don't know personally about that ? — A. No, sir ; I don't. 

Q. Where does this man Summers Uve?— A. I think he lives in 
Sharpsburg Township, in North Iredell. 

Q. Mr. Freeze, the distiller, told you that Summers was going to di- 
vide up ? — A. Yes, sir ; when he started up on his own responsibility. 

Q. AVhere does this El Barkley live? — A. He lives in Catawba 
County. 

Q. You heard him talk with a man named Caldwell, and he told 
Caldwell that he would not divide, but where he boarded he would be 
liberal in paying his board ?— A. Yes, sir ; I heard him say that in Colo- 
nel Sharjje's office. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. He is the general storekeeper ? — A. Yes, sir. 
By Senator McDill : 

Q. I want to know if, at times, there was not a good deal of disagree- 
ment between storekeepers and distillers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They are a little inclined to quarrel about their work ! — A. Yes, 
sir ; as a general thing most of the storekeepers were not lazy, but in- 
dustrious men, and did not mind to put their hand to the work. When 
one of these lazy ones came he did not stay very long. 

Q. He would'^not help to do certain things the distillers wanted done, 
such as making mash! — A. Yes, sir; it is a very heavy job. 

Q. Do you know whether in the discharge of his duties, he ought to 
help make mash ? — A. He had no right, according to my understand- 
ing of the law, to do this, but as a favor — a friendly thing — he did it. 

Q. And this difficulty between these men often came from something 
of that kindf — \. That was my understanding. 

Q. Mr. Daniels liked to have" those kind of men as storekeepers who 
would help about these things ? — A. That would put their hands to 
work. 



20 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. I suppose, of course, it is the fact that if a distiller wanted to quit 
work, by giving notice, he could do so ? — A. Yes, sir ; any distiller 
could do that. 

Q. So that if a distiller had a storekeeper that did not suit, if he 
could not get rid of him any other way, he could just quit work ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; suspend at once. 

Q. And the storekeeper had to go away and take his chances of get- 
ting a new assignment, if the old distillery did not start up again ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

M. C. Williams sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Statesville, N. C. 

Q. What is your business at present ? — A. I am clerk of the inferior 
court of Iredell County. 

Q. Are you a son of Mr. James Williams ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you tell me if he has ever told you anything about assess- 
ments being levied upon him to support Republican newspapers ? — A. 
Yes, sir ', I have heard him say something about paying for the running 
of a newspaper. 

Q. What newspaper was it ? — A. I don't remember. It has been 
three or four years ago since he told me that — it was somewhere out 
on the Western North Carolina Eailroad. 

Q. What did he say to you — the substance of it 1 — A. He did not 
say very much to me about it. I heard him say that he had to pay 
something for the running of a paper. 

Q. That was over and above the assessments for the Presidential 
campaign that these other witnesses have spoken of? — A. I think it 
was during the campaign for Hayes. 

Q. What position did your father hold in the Revenue Department? 
— A. He was a storekeeper at that time. 

Q. What position does he hold now ? — A. Storekeeper and ganger. 

Q. Where is he on duty at present? — A. In Iredell County, about six 
miles from Statesville. 

Q. Do you know anything about these political assessments that have 
been spoken of here ? — A. I don't, sir ; I have heard it said that there 
were assessments, but know nothing of my own personal knowledge. 

Q. Do you have any idea of the amount raised for that purpose i)er 
annum? — A. I never have had any connection with the revenue my- 
►self. 

Q. Do you know anything about this alleged division of salaries be- 
tween the storekeepers and distillers? — A. I have heard it said that 
they divided; I know nothing definite about it. 

Q. Who did you hear say that ; I mean did you hear any revenue of- 
ficer or distiller say that? — A. Yes, sir; I heard a distiller say he could 
get storekeepers for half price. 

Q. What distiller was that? — A. D. F. Stevenson, of Iredell County.. 

Q. That he could get storekeepers for half price? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether he did so get them or not ? — ^A. E do not. 

Q. You heard what he said he could do, not what he had done? — A, 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know who were storekeei^ers at his distillery? — A. William 
Westmoreland. 

Q. How long did he stay? — A. I don't know, sir, how long he staid. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 21 

Q. Do you know of auy changes there ? — A. I don't think there was 
any change; he suspended at that place and put up at another place. 

Q. With the same storekeeper? — A. Xo, sir; I think he has a dirfer- 
€nt storekeeper now at the other place. 

Q. Do you know anything about the requirements made on the ffi- 
cers as to voting by tlie collector of the district? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any man discharged for not voting- to suit t col- 
lector ?— A. I think I heard it said that J. K. Bailey had been disc', rged. 

Q. That is the gentleman spoken of by Mr. Barkley! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any one who failed to get assignment because they 
would not agree to vote right? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know the Eev. Mr. Fesperman! — A. I do know him. 

Q. Do you know that he was appointed as storekeeper and gauger? 
— A. Yes, sir; I heard he was. 

Q. Did he ever get any work! — A. I don't really know. 

Q. Have you ever heard him say anything about it? — A. No, sir; 
never did. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q, Did you ever have any talk with this man Bailey, as to the reason 
of his discharge ? — A. Never did ; just heard it. 

Q. You just heard it outside ? — A. Outside ; yes, sir. 

Q. It may or may not have been true, so far as you know ? — A. I don't 
know whether it is true or not. I don't know anything as to the truth 
of it. 

Q. Did you say you heard Mr. Stevenson say he could get store- 
keepers at half price ? — A. I heard him say it ; that he could get store- 
keepers at half price. 

Q. WheredidMr. Stevenson run his distillery at that time? — A. Atthat 
time I don't think he was running at all. He was talking about run- 
ning and what he could make. 

Q. He did not say he had got them at half price, but could do it ? — 
A. I don't think he had any storekeepers at that time ; he was just talk- 
ing about starting up a distillery. 

Q. That was one of his calculations, that he could get the storekeepers 
at half price ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And he expected to derive some profit from that ; whether he suc- 
ceeded in that, you don't know ? — A. I don't know. 

Q. You say that you do not yourself know of any fact with regard to 
storekeepers and distillers dividing. All you know is what you have 
heard ?— A. All I know. 

Q. Your father is a storekeeper ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And was such, away back in the time of the Hayes campaign ! — 
A. I think so. I am not positive. 

Q. He told you he had to pay something to support a newspaper ? — 
A. In Western North Carolina ; yes, sir. 

Q. Did he tell you the politics of the paper ? — A. In the interests of 
the Republican party. 

Q. Did he say any one had requested him to do that, or that he had 
done it "? — A. I don't remember just exactly what he did say. I don't 
think he had to pay. I think he was just anticipating he would have to 
pay. 

Q. You don't know whether he ever paid or not ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. He had anticipations that he would have to pay something to sup- 
port a newspaper ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it the anticipation he was dreading, the anticipation that he 



22 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL EEVENUE IN 

would have to pay, or expecting to do it ? Did he express himself on 
that point f — ^A. I don't know that he expressed himself 5 he was think- 
ing he would be required to pay. 

Q. He did not say whether he was willing or not ? — A. Willing or not. 

Q. Tou don't know whether he ever did or not f — A. No, sir. 

W. G-. Bogle recalled and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Do you know anything about this check that Colonel Eliason 
wanted from O. M. Barkley ? — Answer. I heard Mr. Barkley speaking of 
it the day before I started up here. 

Q. What did he say? — A. He and J. B. Howell and myself were 
talking in regard to this committee, and he mentioned this check that 
Colonel Eliason wanted from him. He said he was turned off because 
he would not give Colonel Eliason the check. 

Q. The check for his monthly pay ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Colonel Eliason was the distiller whom he was storekeeper for f — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He asked him for his monthly check ; he refused to give it to him, 
and he was discharged for that reason 1 — A. He said so ; yes, sir. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. Who was that?— A. O. M. Barkley. 

Q. You say he has been discharged? — A. I don't know whether his 
commission has been revoked or not ; he was discharged from that dis- 
tillery. 

Q. Did the distillery stop, or was he assigned somewhere else ? — A. 
'No, sir 5 another storekeeper was assigned in his stead at that dis- 
tillery. 

Q. You do not know the reason for it, except as Mr. Barkley stated 
it?— A. That is all I know. 

Q. It may have been there were other reasons ? — A. Perhaps there 
were ; I only know what Mr. Barkley said. 

Q. Where does Mr. Barkley live ? — A. In Statesville. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know whether Barkley complained to the collector or not 
of that treatment ? — A. I do not, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether he informed the collector of that arrange- 
ment? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Eliason, Barkley, and the collector are all in the same town ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Adjourned till June 10, 10 a. m. 



Washington, D. C, June 10, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. m. 
J. A. Clark sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Where do you reside ? — ^Answer. In Atlanta, G-a. 
Q. Were you ever at one time connected with the collection office of 
the sixth North Carolina revenue district ? — A. Yes, sir. 
Q. When? — A. I was connected with it up to May 15, '74. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 23 

Q. Ill what capacity f — A. Chief clerk. -^ 

Q. Ill the collector's office ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you tell us anything about the manner that you observed^ 
while you were connected with the office, in the taking of vouchers for 
the pay of any officer, or employ^, or for any extra service whatso- 
ever "? — A. Yes, sir. The government allows certain men to do certain 
parts of the business. We had no assessors then. The deputy collect- 
ors were in the employ of the collector at that time, while I was there. 
The storekeepers and gangers got their pay direct from the Treasury 
Department ; he got the warrant as disbursing agent, and then he dis- 
bursed the money according to their vouchers and days of service. 

Q. Will you explain as to the manner in which those vouchers were 
made out ! — A. The storekeepers and gangers had a form to make 
them on, to be approved by the collector; the same form as the deputy 
collectors. They all had to be made according to the work done and 
the county assigned to them — the division of the district to which they 
were assigned. 

Q. What I want to know is, was there, or was there not, a habit or 
custom in the office to make out vouchers for more service than was 
actually rendered? — A. At one time they did so. About the time of 
the change when the assistant assessor was taken away. The office was 
abolished. Not knowing how many men were to be allowed, I myself 
made vouchers for several men and got them to sign them. They did 
not draw any pay unless we got something for them. Our letter of 
allowance had not been sent on. And we took the vouchers of several 
men. W"e did not know what we would get. We had to reorganize the 
thing then ; half the officers had gone out. We expected to get some- 
thing for them. The men we could get, and, in that mountainous country, 
we needed them. The understanding with the men who took the special 
service was, that if we could get any compensation allowed, they would 
be appointed, such as the doctor or collector saw fit. 

Q. You say that you frequently made vouchers before the service was 
rendered? — A. Xo, sir. 

Q. Who made out the vouchers ? — A. At the reorganization, when the 
office of assessor and assistant assessor was abolished, there.was much 
more work for the deputy collectors to do. We appointed several of 
them, and gave them commissions as special deputies to take reports of 
distilleries and tobacco manufactories — the difterent reports for the dis- 
trict. Some of them we took vouchers for, and made up the amount as 
much as we could in order to get an allowance to employ the men to do 
the work. 

Q. You took vouchers for as much as you could! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You mean before the service had been really rendered? — A. We 
were running the district then, and had no appropriation made for the 
office^ — after the change. After the assessor's office was abolished. 

Q. My question was, whether at any time there was a custom to take 
vouchers for more than was due, and you answer in this way. — A. That 
is the only time I remember; that was the time of the reorganization, 
and we did not know what we would be allowed. 

Q. Then yon took vouchers for what, for precisely what was due ? — 
A. We took vouchers from the men who helped us to do the work, in 
order to make up an estimate to see what would be allowed. 

Q. Was the amount all allowed ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Had you vouchers then for more than was allowed? — A. Yes sir; 
we took them in order to get the estimate. 

Q. How much did the government allow? — A. I don't know, sir. 



24 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. You cut the vouchers down? — A. They only noted the men al- 
lowed in the account we gave. I don't know how many deputies there 
were at that time. It has been eight years since I had anything to do 
with the office. 

Q. Can you give me the names of any of the special deputies ? — A. 
N. W. Lillington and Mcintosh. 

Q. Did yon not take a number of special deputies into office at that 
time*? — A. No, sir. We took about the number of deputies we thought 
we would require ; that the collector ought to have. I don't remember 
the names. 

Q. You took the vouchers of as many special deputies as you thought 
you ought to have? — A. Yes, sir. Some of those men were drawing 
regular pay as deputy collectors. 

Q. How long did that custom prevail? — A. Only for one quarter. 

Q. Why was it stopped? — A. The letter of allowance came on, allow- 
ing so much as salary for deputies and so much for assistant clerk. 
Then of course we had to make them according to that. Then they 
made a new form. A man had to make out his own accounts. 

Q. Was there not an investigation of that matter by a special reve- 
nue agent? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it not stopped in consequence of that investigation? — A. No, 
sir. A new form came. The collector went out. 

Q. The collector was discharged on that account ? — A. I suppose so, 
sir. 

Q. The present collector ? — A. No, sir ; Dr. Mott. 

Q. In consequence of that investigation ; who made the investiga- 
tion?— A. Mr. Crane, Mr. J. C. Wheeler, and Fred. Lutz. 

Q. Who succeeded you as chief clerk ? — A. Mr. Horah. 

Q. When was Mr. Henry Cowles clerk ? — A. Never, sir. 

Q. I will ask you if you did not say to Henry Cowles, or to some one, 
in justification of this habit of taking vouchers for more than was due, 
that such was always the custom, because the government cut them down 
anyhow, or you took them for more than was due in order to allow the 
government to cut them down? — A. I was clerk of the fourth district, 
and I went to Statesville in order to learn them. Mr. Cowles was then 
expecting to be clerk for Dr. Mott. I went there to learn Mr. Cowles, 
and did assist him in running the office. In the fourtli district we took 
vouchers from the deputies for different amounts, according to the men, 
and, generally, hardly had any record for it. The collector hired them 
as cheap as he could, and allowed so much for it, and I may have remarked 
to Mr. Cowles it made no difference with our accounts then (at that 
time we had no regular form, just a little printed form) ; that the govern- 
ment ought not to have any record for it ; that it would make no differ- 
ence; might make them for $1,000 a month; it did not amount to any- 
thing, only to point out the men we might need. If anything wrong, the 
department could correspond with him. I might have made that remark 
to Mr. Cowles. 

Q. Which Mr. Cowles was that ? — A. I don't know. I expect it was 
Henry. 

Q. You were there to learn eveiy one of them ? — A. Mr. Henry Cowles 
was soon after appointed clerk of the court. 

Q. Do you know of any other cases than those you have mentioned 
where vouchers for a greater amount were made out than was really 
due ? — A. No, sir ; I know no other. 

Q. Do you know of any complaint of parties alleging they had not got 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 25 

•what had beeu made out iu their vouchers ?— A. Yes, sir ; J. A. Eainsey, 
of Salisbury. 

Q. What was his allegation? — A. He claimed that the collector owed 
Jiim about $25 a mouth while he was iu ; that he ought to have had 
$150. 

Q. He alleged his vouchers called for that '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And he did not get it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he sue the collector? — A. No, sir; the collector sued him for 
moneys short, and he brought that up as an answer to the charge as a 
set-off. 

Q. Where was that suit ? — A. That suit was commenced in Rowan 
County. 

Q. Do you know where it was terminated ? — A. I don't know, sir; it 
has been going on since '75 ; been in court about twice a year since. 
The last time they arbitrated, and I don't know whether it is settled or 
not. 

Q. When did Mr. Coite become clerk ?— A. I don't know the time ; I 
think in '75, after I left. 

Q. Have you ever had any talk with him about the A. (Inter- 
rupting). Mr. Coite and I had very little to do with each other. 

Q. He was appointed some time after you had left the position ? — A. 
Yes, sir; he was appointed from the department ; at least, the collector 
got him from here to attend to the distillery business specially. 

Q. Do you know of any cases where storekeepers divided their pay 
with the distiller! — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Was there any complaint made to you while you were in office of 
such things f — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or made to the collector ?— A. No, sir ; not while I w^as in office. 
There were very few distilleries running when I left. 

O. You were not there, then, when the division of stills took place — 
making two or three out of one! — A. No, sir; the collector was out in 
November, '74, I think; I left in May, and I have had nothing to do 
with the office since. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. You went out in May, '74 !— A. Yes, sir ; the 15th of May, '74. 

Q. That was shortly after the law was passed abolishing the office of 
assessor and deputy assessor ! — A. '73, I think. 

Q Dr. Mott was collector at the time you were chief clerk ! — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. The impresoion in the office, 5'ou say, was, that the abolition of the 
assessorship would necessitate an increased allowance for the collector, 
in order to carry on the work of two offices, the collector's and assess- 
or's being combined ! — A. Yes, sir; the impression was it w^ould double 
the deputy's duties. 

Q. And you were desirous of securing a suificiently large allowance 
to do the work in the collector's district efficiently ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And so you adopted the plan of taking a number of your specials 
and making out vouchers for them as deputies! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The object of that being to show to the department at Washing- 
ton the necessity of a liberal appropriation to do the work ! — A. Yes, 
sir; that was the object. 

Q. Did you give men vouchers for work that they had not done ; make 
out vouchers for work not done ! — A. They made vouchers for a greater 
amount of work than was done. They signed vouchers for more than 
they would be allowed under any circumstances. 



;( 



26 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. What I mean is, if a man worked fifteen days, did he make out 
vouchers for thirty days "I — A. I can't exactly answer that. I cannot tell 
the number of days the deputies had. The district had twelve mountain 
counties, and I cannot tell the time a man worked. The vouchers were 
made then quarterly. 

Q. What I want to understand is, whether you and the officers know 
if they made out vouchers for a greater amount of work than a man said 
he had done 1 — A. We put in vouchers — a larger amount of vouchers 
than were necessary — in order to make up a large estimate to get men 
to do the work. 

Q. This, then, Avas an estimate on which you were seeking to get an 
allowance ? — A. Yes, sir ; that was what we termed it at that time. 

Q. What was the form of that voucher ? — A. Dr' to so and so, for 
services rendered as deputy collector, so many months, for a certain 
amount, and the division. ; 

Q. And these particulars really indicated a greater amount of work 
than was done ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But it was done in order to furnish an estimate on which an allow- 
ance should be made. Was it understood in that way at the office 
here 1 — A. I think so, sir. They said something about it, and it Was 
explained to them later satisfactorily. In auditing the account they 
ignored the vouchers. Down there at that time certain men or deputies 
had the work to do anyway, and we put on the specials to assist them. 
They ignored the vouchers, but allowed the collector to pay for those 
regularly appointed. 

Q. Then they said tliis was in the nature of a request to make an 
allowance for special assistance, and the reply of that office was that 
you could not have that allowance, but would be allowed for the regular 
appointees ? — A. Allowed only for the regular deputies. 

Q. So it was simply a claim upon the part of the collector for addi- 
tional help, which was disallowed? — A. Disallowed. 

Q. These things never went into the accounts of the collector or be- 
came a subject of credit ? — A. Only went in as a form. 

Q. As an application for more allowance ? — A. So understood at the 
time. I did it myself. 

Q. That was your understanding about it ; and the fact of it was that 
it was not successful, the allowance being simply what was believed 
would be sufficient for the work that was to be done ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did these special agents comedown to investigate this mat- 
ter ; while you were there ? — A. I was around the town all the while 
till '76. 

Q. I mean, while you were there as chief clerk! — A. Mr. Crane was 
there while I was chief clerk. 

Q. Did he ask you about this matter f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you tell him about how it was? — A. Yes, sir; the best I 
could. 

Q. You just told him you were making up an estimate to get your al- 
lowance? — A. I think you may be mistaken. Mr. Crane's duties were 
looking after the distilleries and starting them up running right. Mr. 
Wheeler was the regular examiner of the books and records of the office. 

Q. Had you ever had a talk with Mr. Wheeler about it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When he asked you about it, did you tell him how it was done, and 
what it was for, just as you have told me ? — A. Yes, sir ; as near as I 
can remember. 

Q. Was it decided by the office here while you were chief clerk ? — 
A. Oh, yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 27 

Q. They made a new form f — A. And reorganized the district entirely 
while I was clerk ; made a new form for the deputy collector to swear 
to and make out his account. 

Q. That old form was not a sworn form ? — A. There was a place for 
a man to swear, but at the same time we did not swear each other, but 
pnt their names down. 

Q. It was irregular and informal ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say that Dr. Mott was removed from the office on account of 
that ? — A. On account of something ; I do not know. 

Q. How soon after that was he removed from office? — A. I think in 
November, '74. 

Q. The cause of that removal you do not know I — A. I do not know. 

Q. How long was it after this estimate? — A. About a year, or maybe 
more. 

Q. How long after the special agents went down there ? — A. They 
were there off and on all the time. 

Q. You say yourself that you had no knowledge of vouchers being 
given for more than men got, except this case ? — A. Except the case 
mentioned. 

Q. You know this man Eamsey, do you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was he ? — A. A deputy collector. 

Q. After he went out. Dr. Mott sued him for money he claimed he 
was in default of? — A. Yes, sir ; for money collected and never paid in. 

Q. And in making up his answer in defense he and his lawyers pleaded 
as an offset that Dr. Mott owed him $25 a month ? — A. I think more 
than he had been paid. 

Q. Of the truth of that you don't know anything ? — A. As to the 
truth I was a very important witness in that case. 

Q. What was the fact ? — A. The fact was that he had been paid up 
the money that was due. We had a letter allowing us to hire so many 
deputies at certain i^rice, and the collector could not give any more 
unless out of his own salary. 

Q. He paid all he had been allowed ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So his claim was a false claim ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And so it was decided ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I mean in the suit ? — A. I think so ; I think the Auditor did decide 
against Eamsey. 

By Senator Mitchell : 

Q. You say these vouchers were made out; were they vouchers that 
were presented in the regular account of the 'collector, or were they 
simply presented in his application for an allowance ? — ^A. Presented 
regularly in his account. 

Q. In the settlement of his quarterly account? — ^A. 'So, sir; in the 
settlement of his quarterly disbursing account they were presented, but 
I can hardly explain that unless I had a form here to show that. 

Q. Is the collector allowed to present a voucher of that kind without 
a previous allowance by the Commissioner of Internal Eevenue ? — A. 
He was at that time, sir ; not now; it is changed. There had been no 
allowance after the reorganization at that time. 

Q. I understand you to say that these vouchers, as you call them, 
were ouly presented for services rendered by some persons designated 
by the collector ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. To act under the revenue law ? — A. He put a great many of these 
in in order to get a good many deputies ; put in as many as he could. 

Q. What was the object of employing so many? — A. They had a bad 



28 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

district up tliere, and the work had nearly doubled itself, and then the 
officers had been diminished half. They needed more men. The col- 
lector had the duties of both the offices. 

Q. What was the understanding with these deputies when they were 
selected or designated ? — A. The understanding was that if we could 
get any pay or allowance for them they should be employed and paid 
regularly. 

Q, Then that was the understanding or the arrangement ; there was 
no obligation really at that time on the part of the collector to pay any 
certain sum to them ? — A. Only to the regular ones. 

Q. Their appointment was authorized "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But as to those you now speak of there was no contract made and 
no assumption of the right to make a contract by the collector for any 
certain sum, but the vouchers were made out for certain sums, with the 
understanding that they were to be presented, and, if allowed, to be 
]3aid ? — A. Yes, sir ; that is what I think about it. 

Q. So that really, although they were presented as vouchers in the 
account of the collector, it was well understood between the collector 
and these persons that the allowance would depend upon the action 
here at Washington ? — A. Yes, sir; entirely. 

By Senator MoDill : 

Q. Who was the Commissioner of Internal Revenue at that time? — 
A. Douglass. 

Q. Before Mr. Eaum's time? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that form was the one used by Douglass? — A. Yes, sir; the 
same form was used by Delano ; used in his time while I was clerk in the 
fourth district. I think the same form had been used always up to that 
time. 

Q. In a statement that you made to Senator Vance there was some- 
thing that you said to Mr. Cowles. Mr. Cowles was expecting to be 
chief clerk after you went out? — A. Expecting to be chief clerk at the 
time Dr. Mott was appointed collector. 

Q. That is, reappointed? — A. No, sir; when first appointed I went to 
States ville in order to straighten him out and start him. 

Q. That was at a still earlier period? — A. That was in '72. 

Q. You had been in the revenue service iu the fourth district? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And Dr. Mott was expecting to be appointed, and make Mr. Cowles 
his clerk ? — A. Dr. Mott was appointed. I went and helped to fix up 
his bonds, also the collector's of the fourth, when I went to start him out 
right. Mr. Cowles got appointed soon after I got there as clerk of the 
United States court, and did not want the office. 

Q. During that time, although you do not recollect, you may have told 
him what was the custom in the fourth district in regard to these 
vouchers ? — A. I may have done so. 

Q. That would have been the custom that existed in the fourth dis- 
trict prior to the year '72? — A. Prior to that time, yes, sir. 

Q. That is, you made out these vouchers for a larger sum than the 
actual amount, and, if not allowed, did that create an obligation on the 
part of the collector? — A. i^o, sir. The deputy had to take whatever 
he got. He advanced it from time to time, and settled every three 
months. 

Q. And if this extra allowance was not allowed here in the fourth 
district the employe got no more and had no claim against the collector? 
— A. I think at that time the letter from the department did not state 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 2& 

wliat you should pay the deputy, but allowed him so much to hire these 
deputies and ruu the office. 

Q. Aud this was a method of increasing the allowance, if possible? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. The vouchers you speak of as being a sort of estimate were of the 
form used by Messrs. Douglass aud Delano before Mr. Eaum came into- 
the office, you say ? — A. Mr. Douglass changed the form. 

Q. Can you tell how it differed from the present form used ? 

(Form No. 54 handed to witness.) 

A. Yes, sir ; I can explain it if this is the form used by the Internal 
Eevenue. 

Q. Please state the substance of the form of the voucher. — A. It 
was something in the order of an account. A B, collector. Dr. to C, 
deputy collector, for services rendered as deputy collector for three 
months ending so and so, say June 30, for services rendered in the county ; 
had a blank space to state the county, with the amount run out and. 
receipted. 

Q. Was there an affidavit to the correctness of that account ! — A.. 
Yes, sir ; I think it was sworn and subscribed to, like here (indicating as 
in Form ISTo. 54), and on the back of it were the official figures. 

Q. These were put in for more than was due ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For the purpose of increasing the amount to be expended on spe- 
cial deputies ? — A. For the amount to be expended on running the office. 

Q. Were not some of these accounts made out for gangers also in 
the same way ? — A. The gangers' accounts ? I don't know about other 
instances. Mr. Crane came down there and turned most of them out,, 
and me besides. 

Q. He was the Mr. Crane who in his report says (quoting), " In this 
connection I will state that I ascertained that J. A, Clark, deputy col- 
lector and chief clerk for Collector Mott, made up all the false gangers' 
bills on which the indictments were found against the five gangers men- 
tioned in this report"? — A. Yes sir; I made up some of them, not all. 

Q. Explain how that was done ? — A. The law requires the ganger to 
visit the distillery every third day and draw the whisky from the cis- 
tern and place it in the warehouse, and withdraw the whisky from the 
warehouse that is tax-paid. A good many gangers in the different parts 
of the district stayed away a month. At the end of the month they 
came home to make up their accounts. They had Form No. 59, show- 
ing the work done each day, and would bring those into the office. A 
great many did not know how to make up an account. They had the 
form furnished to make it up on. I had all the work of the office to do 
at that time, and they would sit around for two or three days asking me- 
questions, and I would sit down and say, " Give me your reports." I 
would take their "59" and make out their accounts; as how far was 
one distillery from another one, the days traveling, and the distance- 
traveled ; and then he would sit down there and sign them, and some- 
times I would sign my name, as deputy collector, to the correctness of 
the account. Mr. Crane could not say that the men could work for noth- 
ing, and he indicted me, thinking I was a party to the fraud. 

Q. I am not asking you any questions with a view of having you 
criminate yourself in the matter; 1 only want to know what the habit 
was in the office ; how those things were done. The purpose of this in- 
vestigation is to find out if these vouchers were frequently made ancS 



30 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

more money obtained on them than was due. — A. I wanted to explain 
what that is in Crane's letter. 

Q. You made these accounts uj) for those gangers ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
made up their vouchers. 

Q. In the case of the deputy collectors, you say that was done for the 
purpose of increasing the estimate, as you have explained"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was known to Dr. Mott "? — A. Yes, sir ; known to everybody 
almost ; we made no secret of it at all, and I think Mr. Wheeler rather 
advised to make as big a showing as we could, knowing we had a large 
district to look after. 

By Senator Mitchell : 

Q. Mr. Wheeler was the special agent 1 — A. Yes, sir ; special agent. 
Mr. Perry was supervisor. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Who was the district attorney then 1 — A. Mr. Lusk. 

Q. I see that Mr. Crane says that he recommended that you should 
be indicted, but that the district attorney declined ; do you know why 
he declined to do as he was recommended by the agent ? — A. I do not, 
sir; unless he was familiar with the facts. 

^ Q. Did you talk with him about it ? — A. Yes, sir. Mr. Crane was 
working for reputation, and Mr. Lusk had it already. Crane was try- 
ing hard to make himself big. 

Q. Do you know anything else that would aid the committee in com- 
ing to a proper conclusion in this matter ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. When did you leave the department? — A. The 15th of May, 1874. 

Q. You have had no connection with the department since? — A. 'No, 
sir ; none at all, except in the suit of Eauisey. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. Where do you now live ? — A. Atlanta, Ga. 

Thomas Templeton sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you live ? — Answer. I live in Iredell County, K C. 

Q. What part of Iredell County? — A. The northern part, near the 
Wilkes line. 

Q. Have you had any connection with the revenue department in 
that district ? — A. I have been connected with it as storekeeper, and 
also storekeeper and ganger when the two offices were consolidated. 

Q. Whereabouts were you located; to what distilleries were you 
mostly assigned ? — A. First, Osborne & Colvert's, and then I served at 
S. A. Woodruffs, near Jones ville, Yadkin County, and then I served 
some at T, ¥. Cooper's, and some time at W. M. Cooper's. 

Q. Is he a brother of T. IsT. Cooper's ? — A. They are brothers. I was 
a short time at J. E. Combs', in Wilkes County. 

Q. How long were you with the two Coopers ? — A. I don't recollect. 
I expect I was off and on with both of them nearly three years. I was 
sometimes with one of them and sometimes with the other, and some- 
times with Colvert. 

Q. How long altogether were you in the service in that capacity? — 
A. I could not tell you exactly. I first went in in 1873, but have not 
had anything like steady employment. 

Q. Still had a commission since 1873? — A. Yes, sir; it was in the lat- 
ter part of 1873. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 31 

Q. Do yon still serve as storekeeper aud ganger ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you assigned anywhere now? — A. Not in any assignment at 
tbis time. 

Q. From 1873 to the present time is about nine years that you have 
been assigned to these five distilleries you have mentioned? — A, Yes, 
sir ; tliose were the only places ; 1 served Woodruff and Combs but a 
short time. 

Q. During the time you were serving will you tell us if you were 
ever assessed for political purposes'? — A. No, sir. You mean by the 
collector or any of the officers ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you assessed by anybody else ? — A. No, sir 5 not in any way 
that was anything like comi)elling. 

Q. Tell us how it was done. — A. There was, I suppose, a kind of 
campaign fund necessary to run the camjiaign, and of course they 
expected that the people of the party would j)ut in something of their 
means, aud I put in a little, too. 

Q. They called on you to put in something? — A. I think that I un- 
derstood through the Coopers that there was a certain amount — or at 
least that they wanted the people to contribute to the support of the 
party, all that were willing. 

Q. The matter came to you through the Coopers ? — A. I think they 
were the ones who informed me of the arrangement. 

Q. To whom did you pay yours ? — A. AVhat I contributed I left in the 
revenue office to go into the hands of the chairman of the executive 
committee. 

Q. You left it in the office — the pay due you? How much? — A. 
Sometimes I just left the money, and sometimes I just signed a check. 

Q. For how much ? — A. I can't tell exactly how much 1 contributed 
in the length of time I was in, but I throwed in right smart. 

Q. How much at a time ; can you recollect that ? — A. I think the last 
Presidential campaign I contributed about $108. I think so. 

Q. Was that a month's salary? — A. Y^es, sir; I just gave it. There 
was no compulsion any way. 

Q. Did you loan Dr. Mott some money once ? — A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. How much ? — A. I think it was |19G ; the checks I made one for 
$104 and the other for $92. 

Q. Did you get it back ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When ? — A. I think it has been about twelve months since he and 
I settled. 

Q. I was requested to ask if he did not refuse to settle once, saying- 
he had been doing so much for you ? — A. No, sir. I never asked him 
for it until the time of settlement. He proposed the settlement. We 
went into it, and he paid me all, and I gave him a receipt, I think, on 
his letter that he wrote to me for the loan of the checks. 

Q. Did you see Mr. Barnes, the sergeant-at-arms, when down in North 
Carolina? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you not tell him that Dr. Mott had never repaid you the 
$200 ?— A. No, sir. I never saw Mr. Barnes until the other day. 

Q. Did you not tell him that you asked Mott for it, and he cursed you 
out, saying he had given you work for a long time and did not want 
to hear anything more about that debt? — A. No, sir; never thought of 
such a thing. 

Q. Did you tell anybody so ? — A. I never told any one so. 

Q. Did you not tell Colonel Armfleld so ? — A. No, sir; have not spoken 
to Colonel Arm field — I don't know as I have— since he was elected to 



32 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN : 

Congress. Dr. Mott never cursed me; if lie did, it was behind my 
back. 

Q. And be paid you back all the borrowed money ? — A. Oh, yes ; he 
has got the receipt on the letter he sent. I receipted in full when we 
settled. 

Q. Do you know anything about how many distilleries Mr. Cooper 
had ? — A. T. IST. Cooper had bnt one when I staid there, but put up 
another afterwards, I understood, and W. M. Cooper had one when I 
first went there, and afterwards he put up another, and I understand he 
has got another one most ready to run. 

Q. Who owns T. N. Cooper's distilleries'? — A. Idon.'tknow, sir ; I un- 
derstood he had sold them, but I don't know that to be so ; it is hear- 
say. 

Q. Sold them to whom did you hear ? — A. I understood he had sold 
one to his brother Will. That is the one I understand he is just fixing 
to put up. 

Q. It is already up if he has sold it ? — A, He moved it up home, up* 
to the new house in Wilkes. I saw the still sitting there in the lot, 
and he told me himself he had bought it from Tom. 

Q. What was the capacity of those stills of T. !N". Cooper's and W.. 
M. Cooper's ? — A. I don't know what T. N.'s was; I think it was about 
eight bushels when I staid there ; I am not positive. And W. M.'s 
varied. Sometimes he would raise it, and then maybe cut it down a 
little. IS'ot under four nor over six, I think, at no time while I staid 
there. I don't know exactly what they were. 

Q. What is the capacity now of T. N. Cooper's two stills? — A. I 
don't know ; he is not running. 

Q. Just before they were closed? — A. I don't know, sir; I had not 
been there for some time ; since he put up the new one. 

Q. You don't know the capacity ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How far were they apart ? — A. I don't know that ; never was at 
his place after he put up the new one. 

Q. Have you not some idea, from the way it has been described to- 
you, how far they are apart ? — A. Some one told me he had a new one 
on what is called the Albea place. And if it is there, it is half a mile 
from the first or old one. 

Q. Do you know whether the capacity of the two combined was- 
greater than that of the old one ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Is the capacity of W. M. Cooper's two new ones greater than the 
old one ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much ? — A. ]S"early double ; he has now raised the old one- 
some. I don't know to what. I expect the two put together now are- 
double what the old one was when I staid there. I think so, at least. 

Q. That is to say, the new one is as great as the old one, and that is 
its double capacity ? — A. Yes, sir; and the old one being raised, makes- 
it still more. I don't know the exact capacity that they are. 

Q. Do you know anything about storekeepers dividing their pay 
with the distillers ? — A. I do not. 

Q. You know nothing of that? — A. I know nothing of that. 

Q, Did you ever divide any of yours with the Messrs. Cooper ? — A.. 
Never did, only what I had to pay for my board. 

Q. With whom did you board ? — A. When I staid at T. N.'s I boarded 
with him. Then I boarded with Will when I staid with him. 

Q. How much board did you pay ? — A. Well, it sort of varied. T. N.. 
never charged me but |5 per month, and Will, I believe, at that time,, 
charged me as high as $1 a day ; $24 or $25 a month. I could not board. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 33 

aiiYwliere else, and it was hard, too, -when he went aud charged me that 
way. I just settled it ofi' without saying much about it. 

Q. Wliat would be a fair price for country boarding, about the usual 
price ? — A. It is a good deal owing to what kind of people you are. If 
making a smart amount of money, they charge you very high ; making 
little, charge you a little. 

Q. It don't depend upon what a man eats, but how much money he 
makes ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In your country they charge a rich man more than a poor one '? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Does that rule prevail all round ; would the store keepers carry out 
the same rule ? — A. I believe they would charge a rich man more than 
a poor one. 

Q. A dollar a day would be $30 a month ? — A. Not quite. 

Q. You do not count Sundays ? — A. I went home Sundays. 

Q. About $2G a mouth? — A. Sometimes; sometimes not so many 
work days. 

Q. That was at the rate of $30 a month where a boarder boarded a 
full month *? — A. I suppose it would have been. 

Q. Was that a fair and reasonable price for board in that country ? — 
A. I thought it was a little high. 

Q. Don't you know it was very high ; that you could get board for $8 
or $10 a mouth? — A. I could not there. 

Q. jS'ot at that house, but anywheres else in the neighborhood? — A. 
I could by taking such fare as was there, but there was no other place 
to board at. 

Q. Could you not board by the mouth for that in the hotels ? — A. 
Ko hotel there. 

Q. I mean in the town of Statesville ? — A. I don't think I can. I 
think they charge a dollar a day or more than that. 

Q. Just tell the committee, yes or no, whether that was the usual 
price for board in that country — a dollar a day ! — A. I think it is for 
revenue ofiicers ; they are hard on them. 

Q. What was the nsual price of liquor at the distilleries where you 
were?— A. I don't know. I never inquired much about that. 

Q. Y^ou did not feel interested in that? — A. Not at all; but that the 
government got the tax. 

Q. Do you think the government got it all ? — A. It did, so far as I 
know. 

Q. AVhat is your opinion the other side of what you know ? — A. I 
could not tell you hardly what it is. So many tales about these things 
that if I was to undertake to form an opinion I might miss it. I don't 
propose to state anything only what I know. It won't do to listen to 
rumors. 

Q. Do you know any cases, then, of other storekeepers paying the same 
board as you did ? — A . I don't ; 1 never inquired into what any of them 
paid. 

Q. Whatdid you pay when you were storekeeper at these other places ? 
— A. I i)aid, I think, $7.50 at Woodruff's. I boarded with a man named 
Miller ; Woodruff boarded with Miller too. Old man Colvert charged 
me a dollar a day. 

Q. Where was his distillery ? — A. When he and Osborne run it, back 
about half a mile from his bouse ; three miles north of Olin, where the old 
one ran. After they dissolved it was put up nearer to his house; close 
to his house. I boarded with him some then. 

Q. With whom did you board when you paid $7.50? — A. With Miller. 
S. Mis. 110 .'} 



34 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Miller was not a distiller? — A. i^o, sir; L. A. Woodruff was tlie 
distiller. 

Q. You boarded wltli Miller, who was not a distiller, and paid him $7.50 
a month ? — A. Yes, sir ; that was away back in the year '74 ; board had 
not run up so high then. Then I went to Mr. Colvert's after that, and 
he popped it up to a dollar a day. 

Q. He was a distiller ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They can afford to board as cheap as farmers ? — A. I thought he 
might, but he would not, or did not do it at least. He did not charge 
me that way at the start, and there was no grumbling • at the winding 
up he charged me that, and there was no grumbling then neither. 

Q. Does that include your experience at all these distilleries ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I was only at Combs' a few days. 

Q. What did Combs charge you ? — A. He did not make any particu- 
lar charge hardly. I had a beast there. I paid him about $10 for the 
beast and myself. 

Q. That was about half a dollar a day for you and your horse ? — A. 
Yes, sir; I bought my fodder and gave him about that. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. The contribution you made to the campaign fund you made volun. 
tarily ?— A. O, yes. 

Q. You just desired to help the cause along 1 — A. Yes, sir. 
. Q. Nobody undertook to force you to do as you chose to do f — A. 'No, 
sir; not at all. 

Q. This board you paid at different places was what the parties 
charged you °? — A. I just paid what they charged me. 

Q. In the case of Cooper, it was the only place you could board and 
do your work'? — A. Yes, sir; no other place near there. ISTot speaking 
anything against the people, but there was not a place fit to board at; 
it is a very destitute neighborhood. 

A. D. CowLBS recalled and examined. 
By Senator McDill: 

Question. I will ask you what you know, if anything, about Mr. 
Cooper — I mean the present collector — being indicted! State what 
investigation you made with reference to that, and the result of it. — An- 
swer. In the last contest for the collectorship I was very active trying 
to get information as to his "blockading," that is, the manufacturing 
and selling of contraband whisky — " moonshining." I went to Salisbury 
and tried to get a transcript of the record of the United States com- 
missioners. I understood that Mr. Cooper's wagons had been seized 
near Salisbury, and that a quantity of brandy and whisky had been 
found in some boxes of fruit by Mr. John Beard, one of Samuel H. 
Wiley's deputies. Mr. Holmes stated that he was commissioner at the 
time, and thought he issued a warrant for Thomas N. Cooper, but he 
had lost the records, and consequently I did not get to see them. So I 
did not stop there, and I sent to Mr. Larkins, clerk of the court of Salis- 
bury, before the western district was formed, now residing in the east- 
ern district, at Wilmington, N. C, and he had the records of that court, 
and by the courtesy existing between clerks of courts he sent me a certi- 
fied transcript of the record, and the indictment was agaiiist T. H. 
Cooper, a cousin of Thomas N.'s, and not against Mr. Cooper. So it 
appears that he never was indicted in court. The presumption is, if he 
were brought into the commissioners' court, that the facts were not es- 
tablished as to his ownership of the liquor. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 35 

Q. You may state liow you came to look this up so closely; if you had 
a purpose or object in it. — Jl. I had a purpose. I wauted to defeat 
Cooper's nomiuation for the position. 

Q. You were unfriendly? — A. Yes, sir; I fought his nomination. 

Q. In the course of your investigations you discovered these facts? — 
A. I discovered these facts. The transcript is on file; probably the 
chairman has it. 

Q. Will you state whether or not the issue in oSTorth Carolina at this 
time is prohibition or anti-prohibition; whether the parties are divided 
upon it? — A. Yes, sir; it a question in politics. 

Q. Are the parties divided; say the one is the liquor party or the 
anti-liquor party, or is it simply as to the policy of prohibition? — A. It 
is prohibition or no proiiibition. The legislature tried to foist upon the 
people of Xorth Carolina a ])rohibition law, which, I believe, prohibited 
the manufacture and the sale of liquor, the latter allowed only in drug- 
stores — a drug store to keep thirty gallons of liquor — and it was defeated 
by 116,000 majorit3^ The Senator asked me the other day, I believe, if 
the Republican party was not known as the Liquor party, and the 
Democratic party as the Temperance party. I think he should have 
said the Temperance and the Anti-Temperance party. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. I asked you if it was known as such. I did not say it was. — A. 
The question of temperance and anti-temperance I don't think enters 
into either party. It is simply a question of prohibition and anti-pro- 
liibition, because the leaders on both sides are equally fanatical about 
intemperance; but the Republican party feels that every man should be 
allowed to manufacture freely what he wants, and drink what he wants, 
so long as he is moderate, and they thought the law Avas calculated to 
take away their liberties, and considered it so, and a great i^ortiou of the 
Democratic party voted with the Republican party. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. This 116,000 majority was composed of both parties °? — A. Yes, sir; 
30,000 Democrats voted the Prohibition ticket. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You say that no indictment appears against Mr. Cooper in the 
records of the Federal court? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say he was not arrested and brought before the United States 
commissioners and bound over for violation of the revenue law ? — A. 
I have not found it so. I do not say that is not so, because I don't 
know. Mr. Holmes stated he issued a warrant for Thomas N. Cooper. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. The present collector? — A. Yes, sir; but the presumption would 
be it was a misnomer in the United States court, or the case was 
brought and he was acquitted. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know Mr. Holmes's handwriting (handing a paper to wit- 
ness)? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Cooper's handwriting? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. (Handing paper to witness.) Is this his handwriting? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. That is T. K. Cooper?— A. That is "T. X." ; yes, sir. 

Q. That is the bond which I will put in evidence. 



36 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Bond marked Exhibit 3, as follows : 

United States of America, 

District of North Carolina : 
We, Tlios. N. Cooper and John H. Dalton, acknowledge ourselves indebted to the 
United States in the sum of five hundred dollars, good and lawful money, to be levied 
of our o-oods and chattels, lands and tenements. To be void on condition that T. N. 
Cooper'^make his personal appearance before M. L. Holmes, commissioner of the 
United States, at his office in Salisbury, N. C, on the 27 day of April next, then and 
there to do and perform, stand to and abide by, such orders as said commissioner 
shall make, and not depart the court until legally discharged. 
Witness our hands and seals the 23d day of March, 1869. 

T. N. COOPER. [SEAL.] 
J. A. DALTON. [SEAL.] 
Attest: M. R. Chaffin. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Dalton's handwriting? — A. l^o, sir. 
The Chairman. I propose to also put in the warrant and affidavit, to 
clear that point, that Mr. Cooper was arrested for illicit distilling. The 
man who was indicted in the Federal court was Thomas H. There is 
no record of Thomas ]!*f. Cooper being indicted there; but this is before 
the commissioner. 
Affidavit, marked Exhibit 4, as follows : 

U. S. commissioner's office for the DIST. of north CAROLINA AT SALISBURY. 

Be it remembered that this day came before me, Moses L. Holmes, United States 
commissioner for the district of North Carolina, residing in the town of Salisbury, John 
Beard, who, having been duly sworn, deposes and says that he is informed and believes 
that Tho. N. Cooper did, on or about the 17th day of February, one thousand eight 
hundred and sixty-nine, and at divers other times before and since the 17th day of 
February, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-nine, in said district, distill, sell, or 
remove spirituous liquors without license, and did fail to make proper report to the 
revenue officers of the United States, with intent to defraud the United States and de- 
feat the revenue laws of the United States. 

JNO. BEARD. 

Sworn and subscribed before me this 2nd day of March, one thousand eight hun- 
dred and sixty-nine. 

M. L. HOLMES, 
Commissioner of the U. S. for North Carolina. 

Warrant, marked Exhibit 5, as follows : 

United States of America, 

District of North Carolina : 
The President of the United States of America to the marshal of the district of North 

Carolina, greeting: 

Whereas information hath this day been made to me, Moses L. Holmes, commis- 
sioner of the United States in and for said.district, on the oath of John Beard, that he 
is informed and believes that Tho. N. Cooper, late of said district, on, before, and 
since the 17th day of February, A. D. 1869, did, within said district, distill, remove, 
■or sell spirituous liquors contrary to the laws of the United States : 

You are therefore herehy commanded, in the name of the United States of America, to 
larrest the body of the said Tho. N. Cooper, if to be found in said district, and him 
-have before me, or some other commissioner of the United States in and for said dis- 
trict to answer the aforesaid charge and be further dealt with according to law. 
Herein fail not. 

In witness whereof, I, Moses L. Holmes, commissioner of the United States for said 
district of North Carolina, do hereunto set my hand and seal this the 2nd day of 
March, A. D. 1869, and in the 93d year of the Independence of the United States of 

America. 

MOSES L. HOLMES, [seal.] 
United States Commissioner, 
Endorsements on the back : 

Executed and bond filed 23d March, 1869. 

D. R. GOODLOE, 

U. S. Marshal, 
By M. R. CHAFFIN, 

Deputy U. S. Marshal. 
Continued to May 15th, 1869. Continued to 5th June, '69. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 37 

W. C. MoRKisoN recalled aud examiued. 
By Senator McDill : 

Question. In your evidence given the otlier day, Senator Vance asked 
you this question (quoting) : "Did you hear anything of it afterwards?" 
referring- to the money you had contributed. Your answer was, " l^o, sir ; 
nothing more than I got a letter from Washington thanking me for the 
$25 1 had sent them." The Senator said, " You got a letter from Wash- 
ington f You answered, "Yes, sir." "Q. By whom was that letter 
signed ?" You answered, " By Commissioner Eaum, I think." I want to 
ask you if you think yon are correct about that letter being signed by 
Commissioner Kaum! — Answer. I did not say it was signed. 

Q. You say you thought it was signed by Eaum ? — A. I am not posi- 
tive whose name was to the letter. 

By the Chairman : 
Q In your affidavit you said the letter was from Mr, Jewell. — A. I do 
not remember whose name was to the letter. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. You only remember that a letter was received from Washington 
acknowledging receipt of 625, but don't remember the name signed to 
it, aud do not wish to say it was from Commissioner Eaum ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Adjourned until Thursday, June 15, 10 a. m. 



Washington, D. C, Jvne 15, 1882. 

John Pool, esq., appeared as counsel for Dr. Mott. 

A. B. Gillespie sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

(Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Charlotte, N. C. 

Q. What is your age ? — A. Thirty. 

Q. What position do you occupy in the revenue service! — A. Ganger. 

Q. You have been a deputy collector ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When were you first appointed deputy collector'?— A. The first of 
January, 1877. 

Q. That was the first time you went into the service ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who appointed you ? — A. Collector Mott. 

Q. Your position is now that of a ganger? — A. Ganger. 

Q. What is your salary? — A. Five dollars a day when employed. 

Q. And nothing if not employed, I suppose ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What are your duties as a ganger? — A. To gauge brandy and 
whisky, and sometimes assigned to special duty by the collector to do 
various things — to instruct other gangers, and whatev^er other work he 
sees fit. 

Q. As ganger, have you any certain counties or jurisdiction assigned 
to you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is that jurisdiction ? — A. Eight counties, now. 

Q. Name them ? — A. A lexander, Xorth Iredell, Y adkin, Davie, Eo wan, 
Cabarrus, Union, and Mecklenburg. I am frequently sent out all over 
the district, but that is my regular post. 

Q. You do not combine the office of storekeeiper and ganger ? — A. Xo, 
sir; ganger. 



38 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Those counties compose your district now? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q, What counties composed it in 1880 — two years ago this summer? — 
A. About that time I was appointed ganger. I was appointed in August, 
1880, to the same district. 

Q. You have mentioned? — A. Yes, sir; but with the understanding 
that I am not confined exchisively to those eight counties. 

Q. Was Mr. William Morrison a storekeeper and ganger in that year 
— 1880? — A. Yes, sir; as I remember. 

Q. From whom do the storekeepers and gangers get their pay? — A. 
The collector. 

Q. How are they paid? — A. By the month. 

Q. Are they paid by a check?— A. A check; yes, sir. 

Q. On what bank?— A. 1 don't know. I think it is a Ealeigh bank. 

Q. You don't know which one in Ealeigh? — A. 'No, sir. 

Q. They are paid monthly by a check on some bank in Raleigh?— A. 
Paid monthly by a check. I don't know any other way. I am not par- 
ticularly acquainted with the manner of their being paid. I just see the 
checks that go to them ; all I know about it. 

Q. Did you take a check to Mr. Morrison during that year and ask 
him to sign for the campaign fund?— A. I don't care to answer that. 

Q. Why not?— A. I understand there is a law forbidding such things, 
and don't know how the law is, whether I have violated it or not. 

Q. Then you decline to answ_er this question for the reason that it 
would criminate j^ou?- A. I don't know whether it would or not. 

Q. It might do it? — A. It might do it. 

Q. You decline, then, to answer whether you helped to assess or levy 
any political assessments on the officers or not? — A. Yes, sir; I decline 
to answer. 

The Chairman. What does the committee say about that? Is that a 
case where the witness may, at his discretion, decline? 

Q. (To witness.) Did you ever pay any money yourself for campaign 
purposes? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much?— A. Very frequently. I don't know how much; 
don't remember now; just what I saw fit. 

Q. Can you not give us an idea of how much ?— A. Sometimes $10, 
sometimes more — considerably more. 

Q. Did you ever at one time pay as much as a month's salary ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of anybody else that paid political assessments, 
contributions, or whatever they are called ?— A. I don't care to answer 
that either. 

Q. That don't criminate you. You are asked whether you know of 
anybody else that has paid these political assessments, — A. Is^othing of 
my own knowledge. I will not answer it in that way either. I have 
known men to pay, but can't say anything definite about it. 

Q. Don't you know that regular assessments were levied upon all 
ofiacers on duty in that department for political purposes ? — A. I know 
they were requested very frequently to contribute ; don't know they 
were levied regularly. 

Q. Don't you know that the same request was made to each one ?— 
A. ISTo, sir ; no means of knowing. 

Q. That was the general rule in that office ?— A. I don't know that. 

Q. And understanding? — A. I don't know; they came through the 
office. 

Q. When you were requested to pay, don't you know the statement 
was made to you that all had been requested in like manner? — A. No, 
sir. 



THE .SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 39 

Q. You never heard any one acknowledge that this was so 1 — A. In 
saying that ? No. 

Q. What was the understanding about these assessments ? — A. No 
particuhir understanding about it. If they were asked, the officers con- 
tributed. 

Q. Was there an understanding that only a few were asked and 
others not asked ? — A. No understanding about it. 

Q. Were you furnished with bhmk checks for this purpose at any 
time ? — A. By whom ? 

Q. I did not say. — A. I don't care to answer that. 

Q. Do you know of any instances where storekeepers divided their 
pay with distillers '? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you heard of any complaint of that being done in your dis- 
trict ? — A. Heard it since I came to Washington. 

Q. You never heard it before ? — A. Heard it as a kind of rumor down 
there. It is larger here than there — the rumor, I mean. 

Q. But you had heard of it do^^^l there? — A. Y'es, sir; I had heard 
of it. 

Q. Whom did j'ou ever hear speak of this in that district ? — A. I can't 
call to mind any one. I suppose I heard several, but I don't remember. 

Q. Can you not give any name? — A. No, sir. 

Q. When a storekeeper was selected for a distillery that was about 
going into operation, were the wishes of the distiller consulted ? — A. 
I can't tell ; I have no means of knowing' that. 

Q. After having been in the service as deputy collector ? — A. Yes, sir. 
The assignments are made in the oflice. I am very seldom about the 
office. My business is away from it. 

Q. Don't you know whether the distillers had any say-so about the 
appointment of storekeepers or not ? — A. I don't know that. 

Q. What have you heard on that subject? — A. I don't know particu- 
larly that I have heard anything — probably rumor, is all I know about it. 

Q. What was the effect of the rumor, that they had some voice in the 
selection of the storekeepers or not — the distillers ? — A. Y>s, sir ; some- 
thing' to that effect. 

Q. Can you give me the names of anybody A. No, sir ; can't 

give any names. 

Q. Can you not tell us any distiller that ever said anything to you 
about it"? — A. No one that ever said anything to me about it. 

Q. Or any storekeeper? — A. No, sir; not that I can recollect. I 
know that distillers did not, and can't recollect about the storekeepers 
saying anj^thing. 

Q. Do you know where the money raised by assessments went ? — A. 
No, sir. It went generally to the executive committee, the Congressional 
committee, or something of that kind. I mean that was where it was 
supposed to go. 

Q. Do you know what purpose it was applied to ? — A. I don't ; no, 
sir. 

Q. At this time, about which I have asked you, and you declined to 
answer, were you a ganger then, or special deputy — in 1880? — A. I was 
appointed ganger the latter i)art of August, 1880 ; had been deputy col- 
lector np to that time. 

Q. It was not a part of your duty to pay off the officers, or anything 
of that sort? — A. No, sir. 

Q. I will ask you if you got some blank checks about that time, and, 
if so, who gave them to you ? — A. I don't care to answer that. 

The Chairman. The mere fact of receiving some checks from some- 
body would not criminate you, I don't suppose. 



40 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL KEVENUE IN 

Mr. Pool. I should think that would be looking very strongly in the 
same direction, receiving checks for the purpose of doing this thing. 

The Chairman. He has not said that. 

Q. (To the witness.) Did anybody offer yon any checks — you need 
not say you received any — any blank checks 1 — A. I don't care to an- 
swer that either. 

Q. You think that the action of somebody else would criminate you ? 
I will ask you if Dr. Mott or his chief clerk did not give you, or offer 
you, a lot of checks at the time of which I speak ? — A. I don't care to 
answer that. 

The Chairman. What do the committee say — shall he answer that 
question or not ? 

Senator Mitchell. Section 6 of the act of August 15, 1876, reads : 

That all executive officers or employes of the United States not appointed by the 
President, "with the advice and consent of the Senate, are prohibited from requesting, 
giving to, or receiving from any other officer or emploj^g of the government any 
money or property or other thing of value for political pur]Doses ; 

And any such officer or employe who shall offend against the provisions of this sec- 
tion shall be at once discharged from the service of the United States ; 

And he shall also be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof, 
shall be fined in a sum not exceeding five hundred dollars. (P. 245, Supplement to 
Revised Statutes.) 

The Chairman. What statute fixes the time within which prosecu- 
tions may be had for such offenses ? 

Senator McDill. Section 1011 of the Eevised Statutes of the United 

States says : 

No person shall be prosecuted, tried, or punished for any offense not capital, except 
as provided in section ten hundred and forty-sis, unless the indictment is found or 
the information is instituted within two years after such offense is committed. 

Section 1016 says : 

No person shall be j)rosecuted, tried, or punished for any crime arising under the 
revenue law, or the slave-trade laws of the United States, unless the indictment is 
found or the information is instituted within five years next after the committing of 
such a crime. 

So, I suppose, five years would be the limitation. 
Senator Mitchell. Here are sections 103 and 859 of the Ee^dsed 
Statutes : 
Section 103 (reading) : 

No witness is privileged to refuse to testify to any fact, or to produce any paper, re- 
specting which he shall be examined by either house of Congress, or by any commit- 
tee of either house, ujion the ground that his testimony to such fact, or his produc- 
tion of such paper, may tend to disgrace him or otherwise render him infamous. 

It refers to section 859, which reads : 

No testimony given by a witness before either house, or before any committee of 
either house of Congress, shall be used as evidence in any criminal jsroceeding against 
him in any court, except in a prosecution for perjury committed in giving such testi- 
mony. But an official paj)er of record produced by him is not within the privilege. 

The Chairman. Suppose we reserve the question. 

L. W. Bryan sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Where do youlive? — Answer. I live in Surry County, jS'ortb 
Carolina. 
Q. Are you a distiller? — A. Yes, sir; I am running a distillery. 
Q. Where is your distillery located f — A. In Yadkin bounty. 
Q. In the sixth district ?~A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 41 

Q. How long have you been distilling? — A. I commenced about the 
first of April, 1880, I reckon. 

Q. Whom ha^e you had for storekeepers? — A. I had a man by the 
name of Shore. 

Q. Any one else! — A. Yes, sir; a man by the name of Captain Stevens. 

Q. Are those all!— A. A Mr. Vestal. 

Q. Did either of them ever divide their pay with you ! — A. They did 
not; no, sir. 

Q. Neither of them ever divided their pay with you! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of such a case, where auy of the officers divided their 
pay with the distillers ! — A. I do not. 

Q. Did some of them offer to divide their pay with you? — A. No, sir; 
none of the men that storekept for me. 

Q. Did any storekeepers that did not "storekeep" for you ever offer 
to divide with you! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Sometimes the storekeepers, being unassigned, would be anxious 
for a job; that is so, is it not! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did any of those out of employment offer to "storekeep" for you 
for less than the regular pay and allow you to take the balance! — A. 
I have had storekeepers come up and say '' they would treat me right," 
and so on, but I never proposed to make any arrangement with them. 
The storekeepers I had at the time appeared to be doing their duty, but 
nothing was said about dividing their pay; did not make that proposi- 
tion. 

Q. What did you understand by a man saying he would "treat you 
right" ? — A. I don't know what they might mean, exactly, by saying 
that "they were willing to treat me right." The law prescribed the way 
they should treat me, but they did not make any — I encouraged nothing 
of that kind.' 

Q. Did the pay of these storekeepers, or any of them who kept store 
for you, ever pass through your hands! — A. I don't know that it did. 

Q. Explain Avhat you mean by that. — A. I just mean that I don't 
recollect that auy of their funds passed through my hands. Your ques- 
tion was : Did auy of their funds — the funds they received for storekeep- 
ing — pass through my hands ? 

Q. Yes. —A. My answer is, I don't recollect that ever it did. I don't 
know that I had any transactions. I don't know; it might; I could 
not say. 

Q. Where did these men who kept store for you board ? — A. Tliey all 
boarded at their own homes. 

Q. None of them boarded with you? — A. No, sir; I lived in the fifth 
and they lived in the sixth. None of them boarded at my house. 

Q. Did you not tell Colonel Armtield that this man Vestal had di- 
vided with you ? — A. I did not. I have not seen Colonel Armfield since 
Vestal storekept for me. He was only three months storekeeping for 
me. I stopped some time in November. Maybe he was not there a 
couple of months. 

Q. Did you not tell Colonel Armfield that some storekeeper had di- 
vided his pay with you ; that you received his check, and sometimes you 
would give him the odd 84 of tlie 8104; and sometimes you would keep 
that amount and give him 850, or sometimes you would keep that 8101 
and give him 850! — A. I have no recollection of telling Colonel Arm- 
field any such thing. .;::r;!^ 

Q. It was in '80, during the campaign, when Colonel Armfield was 
at your house? — A. Yes, sir; it was. 



42 COLLECTION OF IXTEENAL EEVEXUE IX 

Q. Yon liave no recollection of telling him any sncli thing as that? — 
A. jSTo, sir. 

Q. And that yon had storekeepers to oifer you a dollar a day, but 
that the man yon had was so "biddable," and did what you wanted him 
to do, that yon hated to discharge him. Yon say none of that conver- 
sation took place! — A. I have no recollection of anything of that. 

Q. Can yon tell me anything about the custom of storekeepers iu 
that respect — of dividing with distillers"? — A. No, sir; I cannot. 

Q. Do you know anything about the fact or the system of making- 
two or three small stills instead of one large one, for the purpose of 
enabling distillers to run small distilleries by the help of the store- 
keeper's pay? — A. Do I know about the fact? 

Q. Yes. Do you know if such a custom was iu vogue; that they 
divided a twelve-bushel still, for instance, into three four-bushel stills 
for the purpose of enabling storekeepers to help the distiller along by 
dividing his pay with them? — A. JSTo, sir. I know there was a law 
passed that they could run a four-bushel distillery. 

Q. Do you know of any cases^ where men divided their stills and made 
two or three out of one! — A. ISTo, sir. I know of those that were run- 
ning a distillery, and then would put up another. I know one or two 
instances of that kind in that district. 

Q. Do you know of cases where men paid extraordinary prices for 
board — the storekeepers — in boarding with the distillers?— A. Well, I 
don't know that I do — that I ever knew such a thing. 

Q. Did you ever hear a distiller or a storekeeper say so ! — A. No, sir, 
I don't know that I did; but it is outside rumor that they did do such a 
thing, but I don't know any instance to cite to you; just mere rumor, 
such was the case. 

Q. Can you give me the names of anybody that said so? — A. I don't 
know that I could. 

Q. Do yon know anj^thing about assessments being levied ni^on offi- 
cers for political purposes ? — A. I have heard a good deal of rumor that 
there was such going on. As to my personal knowledge of it I don't 
know. 

Q. Did yon ever hear any storekeeper say he had been assessed, and 
if so, who! — A. No, sir. I don't know that I ever heard them say they 
had been assessed. I have heard them say they had contributed. I 
don't know how much; would not recollect now how much. 

Q. Can yon give us the names of those who said they had contrib- 
uted? — A. I don't know that I would recollect. I have heard them fre- 
quently say they would give so much for campaign purposes. 

Adjourned till 10 a. m., June 17, 1882. 



WASHiNaTON, Jmie 17, 1882, 
The committee met at 10 a. m. 

W. C. Morrison recalled and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. In your original examination you stated that Mr. Gillespie 
presented you a check, which he asked you to indorse, as a contribution 
for political purposes ? — Answer. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it filled out when you indorsed it ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. How much was it afterwards filled up for?— A. The check for that 
month I never got — the $108. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 43 

Q. Do you kiio\Y tbe bank that check was drawn on? — A. The 
Ealeiiih National, I think. 

Q. What ot'tice did Mr. Gillespie hold when he presented that check ? 
— A. De])uty collector. 

Q. He was not a disbursing agent of the department ; it was not his 
business to pay the officers, or anything ? — A. No, sir; not that I know 
of. 

Q. Was that the bank that the checks for your pay were usually 
drawn upon? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the understanding with the officers as to what would 
become of you if you refused to give this contribution ? — A. Nothing at 
all that I know of, sir. 

Q. You don't know of any penalty that would be visited upon you ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Don't you know in fact that some were discharged, as they de- 
clined to give the money '? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was not Mclntosli discharged because he declined ? — A. I don't 
know, sir. 

Q. Have you not heard him say so ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was it not frequently the case that they failed to get any assign- 
ment to duty if they declined to contribute ? — A. Some were out and 
some were in. I don't know whether that was the cause of it or not. 

Q. Was it not generally understood that if any of them voted the 
Democratic ticket they would be discharged '? — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any who were said to be so discharged ? — A. No, 
sir ; not of my own knowledge. 

Q. I asked you if you knew of any that were said to have been dis- 
charged in that way ? I believe you said in your first examination that 
Mr. Price and Mr. John Kerr Bailej^ were so discharged. — A. I have 
heard so. 

Q. Have you not stated to a gentleman, since you have been in this 
city, that you did not intend to say anything except what you were 
obliged to, but that it was generally understood that the men would be 
discharged if they did not give these checks ? — A. No, sir ; don't know 
that I said " discharged." 

Q. What did you say? — A. I said that I had not said anything only 
what I was obliged to say ; did not say anything about being dis- 
charged. 

Q. Did you not say something to a gentleman to the effect that men 
w6uld be discharged or fail to get any assignment if they did not con- 
tribute ? — A. No, sir ; I don't remember saying that. 

Q. I will ask you the direct question, if you did not tell Mr. M. 0, 
Williams that the understanding among the men was that if they did 
not pay, notwithstauding it was called a voluntary contribution, they 
would be discharged orfiiil to get an assignment? — ^A. No, sir; I don't 
think I ever told him they would be discharged. 

Q. Did you say the other part of it — what did you say to Mr. Will- 
iams on this subject? — A. I don't remember saying anything about be- 
ing discharged, on that subject. 

Q. Did you say anything about what would be the fate of an officer 
who voted the Democratic ticket ? — A. I don't remember. 

Q. You deny ever having said anything of that sort to Mr. Williams ? — 
A. About getting an assignment? 

Q. Yes, or being discharged. — A. No, sir; I don't remember any- 
thing about being discharged. 

Q. What did you say? — A. I don't remember now. 



44 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Did you say anything to the effect that if a man did these things, 
if he would either fail to contribute or vote anything but the Eepublican 
ticket, that he would be discharged, or that he would fail to get an 
assignment to duty, and lose the benefit of his appointment ? — A. I said 
to him that I had heard Mr. Price and Mr. Bailey had been turned out 
on account of voting the Democratic ticket; all I remember about say- 
ing. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. I understood you to say that you contributed for camimign pur- 
poses; did you do so willingly? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was no constraint put upon you in that respect! — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. You said you heard that some persons, one or two, Mr. Price and 
perhaps another, were discharged for voting the Democratic ticket ? — 
A. I have heard it spoken of; don't know it of my own knowledge. 

Q. You mean simply as a rumor, or idle talk of some individual whose 
name you have forgotten ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect the individual who said so? — A. I^o, sir. 

Q. That applies only to Mr. Price and one other ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many officers are there in that district? — A. I don't know, 
sir. 

Q. Forty or fifty ? — A. More than that, I guess. 

Q. I suppose it is a common thing for them to be discharged, now and 
then ; here one and there one ? — A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. For one cause or another? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you don't generally hear what the cause is ? — A. No, sir. 

O. M. Barkley sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. Statesville, i^orth Caro- 
lina. 

Q. Are you now connected with the internal-revenue department in 
that district ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you at any time ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. From when to when ? — A. Off and on about seven years. 

Q. When did you quit ? — A. I quit about two months ago, I think it 
was. 

Q. You are not in the service now ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. In what capacity did you serve? — A. Storekeeper and ganger. 

Q. Do you recollect about the distilleries of Mr. Daniels ; how many 
did he have? — A. I don't remember; some four or fi^e in all. 

Q. Where were they located? — A. Two of them were southeast of 
Statesville, one was east, I think, and one northwest. 

Q. How far were they all from Statesville? — A. The nearest about a 
mile and a half, I think. 

Q. They were all immediately around the town? — A. Not more trhau 
five miles from the farthest. 

Q. Were you storekeeper for either of them? — A. I was storekeeper 
for Mr. Daniels a few months, until he sold out. 

Q. Who selected you for that distillery ?— A. I was assigned there by 
Mr. Coite. 

Q. Do you know whether Daniels wanted you or not? — A. I don't; 
no sir. If he did not — at least I never heard if he wanted me or not — 
there was no objection, and I was sent there. 

Q. You say you were removed from his distillery? — xV. He sold it 
out. I still staid on with the party who bought it. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 45 

Q. Who bought it ? — A. A man by the uame of Browu. 
Q. AVhat was your pay ? — A. Three doUars a day. 
Q. Did you divide auy of it with the distiller "?— A. IS^o, sir. I always 
drawed my owu check. 

Q. Did you keep it all ?— A. I did. 

Q. Do you know of any storekeepers who divided with the distillers 1 
— A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Did you hear any of them say so, either a storekeeper or distiller 

A. No. I don't remember. I heard it told that parties wanted them 

to divide and they would not do it. 

Q. Heard that parties wanted them to divide — who, these distillers *? 
and the storekeepers refused? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any case where the distillers refused to have 
storekeepers because they would not divide? — A. No, sir. I don't re- 
member. I always went along and attended to my own business. 

Q. Still you might have heard what was going on in your depart- 
ment*? — A. I was never there ; away much of the time. I did not live 
in town and did not pay any attention to that thing then. 

Q. What distiller did you hear say he wanted the storekeepers to 
divide? — A. I don't remember now. I just heard it talked; somewhere 
on the streets, I believe it was. 

Q. What storekeeper did you hear say he had refused to divide? — A. 
I can't tell you, because I never paid any attention to it; just heard the 
remark of some one. 

Q. Such remarks were very common, and did not strike you particu- 
larly ■? — A. Very common, and paid no attention to them. 
Q. And you could not be any more specific? — A. No, sir. 
Q. Did you ever contribute anything for political purposes ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. How much? — A. Well, I contributed for campaign purj)oses for 
ihe President. 
Q. In 1880?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much? — A. I don't remember the amount — in a check; for- 
get how much it was. 
Q. Was it your month's salary? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who asked you for that ?— A. I don't remember now who asked 
it. I think I gave it to the executive committee. Since then I have 
sent it to the executive committee. 

Q. Did not Mr. Gillespie ask you for it? — A. I think he was the first 
one ever mentioned it to me. 

Q. Was not the check presented to you in blank, to be indorsed by 
YOU? — A. I don't remember whether it was a blank check, or whether 
It was a check I gave; don't remember which. 

Q. Did you send it yourself direct to the executive committee, or 
give it to some one to be sent there? — A. I left it in the office. 

Q. In Dr. Mott's office? — A. Yes, sir; to be sent to the committee. 
Q. Did you ever get any acknowledgment from the committee for it? 
— A. I think I did. I did of the others; think I did that; don't remem- 
ber. 

Q. How many others did you send ?— A. For political purposes ? I 
gave five dollars now and ten dollars again, and so on. Of course I 
don't remember; neverkept any account of it, as we good Eepublicans 
down there generally do. 

Q. To what purpose was the money appbed, did you say ? — A. Cam- 
paign purposes, I suppose. I don't know. 



46 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

i 

Q. You clou't know? — A. No, sir. That is what it was gotten np' 
for. 

Q. Did ,y ou understand any of it went to the suftport of newspapers ? — 
A. I don't know ; guess it was distributed around for differeut purposes ; 
can't tell. 

Q. You had some idea what the campaign purposes were, had you 
not*? — A. ]S"o, sir; I have no idea. I know speakers had to be paid, 
newspapers published ; who was paid I don't know, sir. 

Q. Do you know when Jim Harris was on the list of storekeepers ? — 
A. ISTo, sir ; I do not ; that is the first I ever heard of it. 

Q. Was he not there in the district, pretending to do work ? — A. I 
don't know. I saw him at the office ; don't know what his business was. 

Q. You never saw him doing any public work ? — A. I saw him in the 
office. 

Q. You never saw him doing any official duty ? — A. I saw him in there 
writing. 

Q. Did you ever hear of hear of him having any official duty to per- 
form"? — A. JSTo, sir. 

Q. Did he make any political speeches around there in that campaign 
of 1880 ? — A. Jim Harris is generally on the stump when any political 
thing is going on. 

Q. Where did he speak in that country ?— A. I don't know, sir j I can 
remember of him speaking in different places. 

Q. In the district or out ? — A. He spoke once or twice, I think, in the 
district there ; I don't know of but one or two speeches that I heard him 
make in the district. I suppose he made fifty, but I don't know. I 
know of a couple of times he spoke close to town ; all I remember. 

Q. What office does Mr. E. B. Drake hold — the old gentleman ? — A. 
I don't know, sir ; he has something to do with the revenue office, but I 
don't know what it is. 

Q. Did you ever see him do anything? — A. Yes, sir; I have seen him 
going oif in the country, at least going off on the railroad. I supposed 
he was a ganger— don't know what he was — or general storekeeper. 

Q. What are the duties of a general storekeeper ? — A. He has to go 
and gauge the liquors when a man wants to withdraw them from the 
warehouse, and when a distillery is suspended the keys are turned over 
to the general storekeeper. 

Q. When a distillery is in operation a storekeeper is assigned to it 
whose duty it is to carry the keys and attend to it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When a distillery is suspended it is put in charge of a general 
storekeeper who keeps the keys but don't stay at the distillery ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q, And where the owner of the liquor in a bonded warehouse wants 
to withdraw any of it the general storekeeper's duty is to take the keys 
and open the warehouse, regauge and stamp the liquor, and keep the 
keys? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You do not know how much of that duty Mr. Drake has done ? — 
A. I don't ; there is a good deal of it to do. 

Q. How many general storekeepers were there in Statesville, or near 
there?— A. I don't know of any only Mr. Drake; don't remember of 
any. 

Q. Don't you know Mr. Henry Mott was one ? — A. Ko, sir. I thought 
Mr. Henry Mott was deputy collector. I don't know what he is. 

Q. Did you know that Mr. Camm. Pearson was a general store- 
keeper ? — A. He might have been in the western part of the district, 
about Morganton. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 47 

Q You dou't know how many there were around there ?— A. I'fo, sir. 

Q. AVhat other business did Mr. Drake follow besides that of general 
storekeeper ?— A. He is a printer, and runs the American office. 

Q. He is editor and proprietor of the American ?— A. No, sir; Mr. 
Bill Drake is the proprietor of the office. 

O Now ?— A. Yes, sir; has been for a couple of years. 

Q. Mr. E. B. Drake edits it?— A. I don't know whether the old gen- 
tleman has anything to do with it. I saw him up there writing some- 
times. . , . 1 a A 

Q. How often did you ever see him go off with a gauging rod ^— A. 

I don't remember; saw him several times— don't know how many times. 

Q. You remember when Daniels's distilleries were seized ?— A. Yes, 

sir 

Q. When the liquor was lost, found buried, and so on ?— A. I remem- 
ber something about it. , . a- 

Q. It was under suspension then, was it not ?— A. les, sir. One was 
just starting up ; just fixing to start up. 

Q. It was under suspension when seized ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who was the general storekeeper in charge of that distillery !— 
A. I could not tell ; I don't know. 

Q. Do von know who had the keys ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. When the liquor was stolen ?— A. I don't know. 

Q. Were you there ?— A. No, sir. I was on duty at my place every 
dav, and don't know anything about it at all. 

Q. AVhere was your place ?— A. Ten miles and a half northwest ol 

Q. You did not hear about the row ?— A. Heard it after it was all 

over. . . - ^ , , 

Q Did you understand whose district it was in— what general store- 
keeper's?— A. No, sir. I don't know whose— the general storekeeper 
of the county; then laid off" in counties. , 

Q Did you receive a letter from W^ashington some time m January 
la St "through the collector's office asking you if the collector owed you 
anything, and if your salary had been paid, &c.?— A. If the collector 
owed me anything f 

Q. Yes.— A. Not that I remember, sir. 

Q Let me read it to you. [Exhibit 1 read.] Did you receive such a 
letter as that '?— A. If I did, I don't remember. If I did, you will find 
the answer for it. I answered all letters written to me— anything writ- 
ten from W^ashingtou. ^r rr n i 

Q Did you not receive this letter and hand it over to a Mr. Hall, and 
ask him to answer it for you ?— A. There is no man in the office by that 

Q. You can answer the question '?— A. There is no man ot that 



name- 



Q. No man living of that name?— A. No man in the ofdce. There is 
a Frank Hall 

Q. Just answer the question.— A. I did not. . -r xr.- i ^^ 

Q. Did you ask anybody to answer this for you I— A. I think Mr. 
Hall Caldwell. I asked Mr. Hall Caldwell to answer it. 

Q. I will read you something more. 

^Exhibit 2 read.) 

A. That is the letter I wrote and gave him to copy. . „ ^ ^ 

Q. You gave it to Hall Caldwell and asked him to copy it ?— A. Yes,, 
sir. 



48 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL KEYENUE IN 

Q. I will ask you if, with, this letter from the Commissioner sent to 
you, tliis form of an answer did not also come to you*?— A. No, sir. 

Q. And on it was written (quoting), ''Write something like this " j 
"Copy this'"? — A. 'No, sir; nothing of the kind. 

Q. From whom did tkis form come? — A. I wrote that, and asked Mr. 
Caldwell to copy it for me. 

Q. Did not a letter like this accompany the Commissioner's letter? — 
A. No, sir ; it did not. 

Q. With the instructions on tlie margin " Write something like this"! 
— A. No, sir ; it did not. 

Q. This was written entirely by you, without any dictation from any 
one ? — A. It was written by myself and handed to Caldwell to copy. 
He wrote a good hand. 

Q. You did not sign it at all ?— A. Of course not. I signed the one I 
gave him to copy. 

Q. He just re-wrote your copy, signed tlie name and all, and sent it 
on ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you receive a circular letter from the collector's office at any 
time asking you what your politics were ?— A. From the sixtli district 
there *? 

Q. Yes. — A. Never did. 

Q. From the collector's oflace? — A. I have always been a Eepublican. 
They knew what I was. Never received anything of the kind. 

Q. Do you know of such a letter having been addressed to the officers 
of the district ? — A. I do not. 

Q. You never heard of any ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any officers discharged, or who failed to get as- 
signments, because of their politics ?— A. If there was I never heard it. 

Q. You never heard Mr. Price say he was discharged ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Nor Mr. Fespermau? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You never heard that Mr. Bailey was ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know tke reason why Price was discharged?— A. I don't 
know. They discharge them every now and then when they do not do 
their duty right. 

Cross-examination, by Mr. Pool : 

Q. How did you come to get out of the revenue service two montlis 
ago "?— A. I just resigned of my own good will. I had other work to do, 
and could not well run the revenue and attend to that too. 

Q. Did you ever hear that Mr. E. B. Drake neglected his official 
duties? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any negligence of duty on his part ?— A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Is Mr. Drake a man of high character and standing in the commu- 
nity?— A. Yes, sir; considered that in Statesville. 

Q. How old a man is he?— A. About sixty to sixty-five years old. 

Q. How long has he been the editor of the Statesville American ?— 
A. Something over twenty years. I think longer than that— about 
twenty-five or thirty years. 

Q. Did you contribute what you gave to campaign funds willingly?— 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any compulsion then upon you ?— A. No, sir : none 
whatever. 

Q. Why did you ask Mr. Caldwell to copy that letter for vou— because 
you did not write a good hand ?— A. I got him to write because he wrote 
a better hand then I could, and had the paper and ink. I just asked him 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 49 

to copy it. I wrote it oft" and wanted to get it riolit back. It said, an- 
swer immediately. 

Q. It was a mere matter of couvenieuce to yourself, and the purpose 
of having- the letter copied was that he wrote a better hand than you 
could? — A. Yes, sir. He wrote a splendid hand and I got him to copy 
it for me. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. If you had not been requested by an officer of the department 
would you have given $108 to the campaign fund? — A. AVould I have 
given it? 

Q. Yes! — A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. If anybody from the department had not asked you? — A. Of 
course, where other i>arties gave, I am willing to give too. I think, as 
a general rule, other parties gave that were not in office. 

Q. All the oflicers did give, did they ? — A. I don't know whether they 
did or not. 

Q. That was the understanding; they were all asked in the same way 
as you were? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If such a request was not made to you, would you have gone for- 
ward of your own motion and sent $108 to the executive committee? — 
A. If I found the executive committee wanted it, I would. 

W. H. Kestler sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman: 

Question. Were you at one time in the employ of the collector of the 
sixth internal revenue district of jSTorth Carolina?— Answer. I was, sir. 

Q. State when. — A. I don't remember now, sir; I think it was along 
about September, in 1874. 

Q. Where do you live now? — A. Salisbury, N. C. 

Q. How long were you in the service? — A. Only a month, sir. 

Q. What pay did you receive? — A. I got $65. 

Q. I find a voucher liere (reading), "J. J. Mott, collector of internal 
revenue, G district of N. C, to W. H. Kestler, dr., for services rendered 
as dep'ty coll'r of the G district of N. C, during the period commenc- 
ing Oct. 1st, 1872, and ending Oct. 21st, 1872, inclusive: f month, at 
the rate of $1,200 per annum, $G5.00. The services were performed at 
Statesville. Eeceived payment, W. H. Kestler, dep'ty col.," and so on. 
Did you give that voucher? — A. (Indicating.) That is my signature. 

Q. "Subscribed and sworn before me this 11th day of September, 
1874. (Signed) J. M. Horah, clerk superior court, Eowan County, IST. 
C."— A. That is correct, sir. (Marked Exhibit G.) 

Q. And next to it is another voucher of the same form: (Reading) 
•^' J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue, G district of N. C, to W. H. 
Kestler, dr., for services rendered as dep'ty coll. of the 6 district of 
N. C, during the period commencing Sept. 30, 1872, and ending Dec. 
31, 1872, inclusive: Three months, at the rate of $1,500 per annum, 
$375." (Signed) "W. H. Kestler," and "sworn to 10th of January, 
1873." (Voucher shown to witness.) — A. I know nothing about that, 
sir. 

Q. You say that (indicating) is not your signature? — A. (Examining) 
No, sir — don't think it is — no, sir. 

Q. It professes to have been sworn to before J. A. Clark, deputy 
collector, the 10th of January, 1873. — A. That is not my signature. 

Q. You say you did not render that service*?— A. No, sir: 

(Marked Exhibit 7.; 
S. Mis. IIG 4 



50 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

Q. I find ill tlie "original" papers furnislied me from the department^ 
anotlier Youcher of the same form ; viz ( Jleading) : '^ J. J. Mott, col- 
lector of internal revenne, 6 district of N. C. To W. H. Kestler, Dr. 
For services rendered as dep'ty coll. of the 6 district of iT. Ca,, during 
the period commencing Jan'y 1, 1873, and ending M'ch 31, 1873, inclusive. 
Three mouths, at therate of |1,500 per annum. (Total) $375.00. W. 
H. Kestler, witli the usual affidavit, dated 10th day of April, 1873."^ 
(Voucher shown to witness.) Will you say if these are yours "? — A. No 
sir. 

(Marked Exhibit 8.) 

Q. This is the 10th of April, '73; that makes six months' services, or 
two quarters over and above what you say is proper; you did not render 
that service! — A. No, sir. 

Q. And you did not sign these vouchers ? — A. No, sir. 

The Chairman. We offer these vouchers in evidence. 

Mr. Pool. Where did they come from? 

The Chaieiian. From the department, furnished me by Mr. Eaum. 

Exhibit 6 is as follows : 

(63i.) 
Prescribed for use DecemLer 15, 1870. 
(Original.) 

DEPUTY COLLECTOES' AND COLLECTOES' CLEBKS' ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES. 

(To accompany Form 63, rendered to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue with the 
quarterly account of expenses in Form 91 ) 

J. J. Moit, collector of internal revenue, 6 district of N C, to W. H. Kestler, Dr. 

For services rendered as dep'ty coll. of the 6 district of N C. during the iieriod com- 
mencing Oct. 1st, and ending Oct. 21st, 1872, inclusive : 

f months, at the rate of $1,200 per annum $65.00 

days, at the rate of | i>er day I 

Commissions on collections, at per centum $ 



The services were performed at Statesville, and were of the following charac- 
ter: 

Received rtayment. 

W. H. KESTLER, Dep'ty Col. 

I, W. H. Kestler, deputy collector for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6th district of No. 
Carolina, do solemnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above 
charged ; that such services were, in my opinion, proper and necessary ; that the rate 
of compensation therein stated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is 
just and reasonable; that I have not paid, dej)osited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, 
deposit, or assign any part of such comiiensation to the use of the collector, or any 
other person, in any way, directly or indirectly, or paid, or given, or contracted to pay 
or give any reward or compensation for my olfice or employment, or the emoluments 
thereof. 

W. H. KESTLER, Dep'ty Col. 

Subscribed and sworn before me this 11th day of September, 1874. 

J. M. HORAH, 

Cleric Superior Court, Eoivan County, N. C. 



I 



TRE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 51 

Exhibit 7 is as follows : 

((m.) 

Prcscribod for use Deceiiiljcr 15, 1870. 
(Original.) 

DEPUTY COI.LKCTOrtS' AND COLLECTORS' CLEKK.S' ACCOUNT FOI{ SERVICES. 

(To acfoiiipany Form G'A, rendered to tlie Commissioner of Internal Revenue -svitli tbc 
quarteily account of exY)ense8 in P'orni 91.) 

J. J. Mott, collcdor of interval rcninte, 6 dialrktof X. C, 1o W. II. KtstUr, Dr. 

For services icndered as dep'ty coll. of the 6 district of N. C, during the period 
commencing Sept. W, 1H72, and ending Dec. 31, I'^TS, inclusive: 

Three months, at the rate of |1,.^jOO per annum $37.5 

days, at the rate of $ per day $ 

Commissions ou collections, at per centum | — 

The services were performed in the counties of Iredell, Alexander, Rowan, Wilkes, 
Yadkin, Cabarrus, Jlecklenlmrg, Davie, Lincoln, & Caston, and were of tiie follow- 
ing character : Looking after illicit distilling, toLacco wagons, & tohacco. Travelling 
all the while in this capacity. 
Received payment. 

W. H. KESTLEK, 

UcpUii Coll. 

I, W. H. Kestler, dep'ty coll. for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6 district of N. C, do 
solemnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged; that 
such services were, in my opinion, proper and necessary; that the rate of compensa- 
tion therein stated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is just and rea- 
sonable ; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, deposit, or 
assign any part of such compensation to the use of the collector, or any other person, 
in any way, directly or indirectly, or paid, or given, or contracted to ])ay or give anj' 
reward or compensation for my office or emplovment, or the emoluments' thereof. 

W. H. KESTLER, 

Dep'hj Coll. 

Subscribed and sworn before me this 10th day of Jau'y, 1873. 

J. A. CLARKE, 

JJejrty Coll. 
Exhibit 8 is as follows: 

(63i.) 

Prescribed for use December 15, 1870. 

(Original.) 

DEPUTY COLLECTORS' AND COLLECTORS' CLERKS' ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES. 

(To accompany Form 63, rendered to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue with the 
cjuarterly account of expenses in Form 91.) 

J. J. Mott, colhclor of internal revenue, 6 district of N. C, to W. H. Kestler, Dr. 

For services rendered as dep'ty coll. of the 6 district of N. C, during the period 
commencing Jan'y 1st, 1873, and ending M'ch 31, 1873, inclusive: 

Three mouths, at the rate of $1,500 per annum .5:375 OO 

days, at the rate of % per day ,| 

Commissions on collections, "^.t per centum $ — 

The services were performed in the counties of Iredell, Alexander, Rowan, Wilkes 
Yadkin, Cabarrus, Mecklenburg, Davie, Lincoln, & Gaston, and were of the following 
character : Looking after illicit distilling, tobacco wagons, & tobacco. Travelling all 
the time in this capacity. 

Received payment. 

W. H. KESTLER, DepHii Coll. 



52 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE \u 

I. W. H. Kestler, deputy coll., for J. J. Mott, collector of tlie 6 district of N. C, do 
solemnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged ; that 
such services were, in my opinion, j)roper and necessary ; that the rate of compensa- 
tion therein stated is the same as agreed upou with the collector, and is just and rea- 
sonable; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to jiay, deposit, 
or assign any part of such compensation to the use of the collector, or any other per- 
son, in any way, directly or indirectl;y, or paid, or given, or contracted to pay orgive, 
any reward or compensation for my office or emiiloyraent, or the emoluments thereof. 

' W. H. KESTLER, JDep'ty Coll. 

Subscribed and sworn before me this 10 day of April, 1873. 

J. A. CLARKE, I)e2)'ty Coll. 

Q. I find another voucher here, in the usual form, l^o. 63^ (reading) : 
" J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue, sixth district of North Caro- 
lina, to W. H. Kestler, Dr. For services rendered as deputy of the 
sixth district of IS'orth Carolina, during the period commencing April 1, 
1873, and ending June 30, 1873, inclusive, three months, at the rate of 
$1,500 per annum (total) $375," purporting to be signed by " W. H. Kest- 
ler, deputy collector," and to have been sworn to before "J. A. Clarke" 
on the <'10th day of July, 1873 "? — A. That is my signature, but it was 
never sworn to. 

Q. That is your signature, but you did not swear to it? — A. ISTo, sirj 
I can explain how that was. 

Q. You say you did not render this service ? — A. iTo, sir. 

The Chairman. We offer this in evidence (marked Exhibit 9, as fol- 
lows) : 

(63i.) 

Prescribed for use December 15, 1870. 

(Original.) 

DEPUTY collectors' AXD COLLECTORS' CLERKS' ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES. 

(To accompany Form 63, rendered to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue with the 
quarterly account of expenses on Form 91.) 

J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue, 6 district of N. C, to W. H. Kestler, Dr. 

For services rendered as dex^'ty of the 6 district of N. C. during the period com- 
mencing April 1, 1873, and ending June 30, 1873, inclusive : 

Three months, at the rate of $1,500 per annum $375 

— days, at the rate off per day |. 

Commissions on collections, at per centum | 

The services were performed in the counties of Union and Gaston and balance of 
dist., and were of the following character: To look after illicit distilling, manufac- 
ture and sale of tobacco, and those liable to special tax. 

Received payment, 

W. H. KESTLER, DejjHi/ Coll. 

I, W. H. Kestler, dep'ty for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6 district of N. C, do sol- 
emnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged ; that such 
services were, in my opinion, proper and necessary ; that the rate of compensation 
thereinstated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is just and reason 
able ; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, deposit, or 
assign, any part of such compensation to the use of the collector, or any other person, 
in any way, directly or indirectly, or paid, or given, or contracted to pay or give, any 
reward or compensation for my office or employment, or the emoluments thereof. 

W. H. KESTLER, 

Dep'ty ColVr. 

Subscribed and sworn before me this 10th day of Julv, 1873. 

J. A. CLARKE, 

De2)'ty Coll. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF XORTH CAROLINA, 



53 



Q. That makes three quarters — nine months — for which vonchers are 
filed in your name, that you say you did not render service for ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Two of tliem you did not sign ; the last one, just read to you, you 
signed but did not swear to ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Yon may explain now, if yon desire, how it was you came to sign 
it and did not swear to it. — A. There was a blank sent me, my recol- 
lection is, by mail, to sign for the services that I had rendered for the 
montli. I signed it and mailed it. It was blank ; and some time after- 
ward there was another one came — I don't recollect now whether Mr. 
Clarke had it, or who — saying that it had been misi)laced or lost by some 
one, and I signed another one blank, and that was the way of it. 

Q. Hovv came you to fill it up for 1375, or did you do it ?— A. I signed 
it in blank ; there was nothing on it. 

Q. No part of that is in your handwriting except your name ? — A. 
That is all. 

Q. And the other two, although just like that, for other quarters, none 
of them are in your handwriting, not even the signatures ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You know nothing about those? — A. Not at all. 

Q. This last one came by mail with the request to sign it, leaving it 
to be filled up at the office? — A. Yes, sir; for the month I was in the 
service. I signed two blanks. 

The Chairman. We offer in evidence the abstract of vouchers sworn 
to and filed by the collector, Dr. Mott (marked Exhibit 10, as follows) : 

(63.) 

Prescribed for use December 15, 1870. 
(To accompany Form 91, rendered (juarterly to the Comrnissioner of luterml Revenue.) 

Abstract of vouchers of expenses attending the administration of the office of the collector of 
the ath district of N. C. for the quarter ending JuneSOth, 1873. 





Xame of deputy, clerk, or 
other party to whom pay- 
ments are made. 


Amounts paid. 


a 

s 
a 

a 

o 
&( 

-2 




o 

o 
d 




1 
o 

o 


o 
o 
E • 

o t- 


o 


4 

% 

o 


Remarks. 


1 




450 00 
200 00 
200 00 
300 00 
375 00 
250 00 
250 00 
175 00 




il Ta+, to 


June 30 


1, 800 00 
1, 200 00 
1, 800 00 
1, 800 00 
1, 500 00 
1, 500 00 
1, 500 00 
1, 500 00 
1, 800 00 
1, 200 00 




2 


J.I.Mcintosh 


Ma' V 1st! " 


Ganger. 


3 




Apr 
Ma 

4.50 00 Apr 
200 00 Ma 


■ 20 " 

Ist " 

ilLst" 

ylst " 

20" 

il Ist " 

ylst" 

60 00 


4 


J^. ^V. Lillington 




5 


W. H. Kestler 




6 


W. M. Walker 


Ganger. 


7 


P.R.Martin 


8 


0. H. Peiry 




9 


J. A. Clarke 




10 


W. W. Mott 






11 










(In lead pencil:)...- 
Total 


f2,200 00 

650 00 

60 00 

2, 9r0 00 
1, 769 23 










. 1, 140 77 






2, 200 00 


650 00 


60 00 











J. J. MOTT, 

Collector. 



54 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 



I, J. J. Mott, collector of district No. 6, in the State of N. C, do solemnly swear 
that the foregoing statement is in all respects just aud true according to my best 
knowledge and belief ; that the several items charged, as set forth in detail therein, 
are at the reasonable and customary prices at the place where the charges were in- 
curred; that each and all of them were necessary for the proper discharge of my offi- 
cial duties; that I have not received or retained, and am not entitled to receive or 
retain, for the benefit of myself or other persons, directly or indirectly, any portion 
of the sums charged or d'sbursed; and that the disbursements charged were made in 
good faith. 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

Sworn and subscribed before me this the 10th day of July, 1873. 

J. A. CLAEKE, DejiHy Coll. 

The Chairman. And in that abstract of vonchers we find the name 
of W. H. Kestler for |375 paid to him as a deput3^ And then we offer 
in evidence an amended abstract of vouchers for the same period, with 
the same oath or affirmation, but with the name of W. H. Kestler left 
out entirely. 

Mr. Pool. Is the amended voucher in the same language? 

The Chairman. The afiflrmation is in the same language. 

(Marked Exhibit 11; is as follows:) 

63. Amended. 



Prescribed for use December 15, 1870. 

(To accompany Form 91, rendered quarterly to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue.) 

Abstract of vouchers of expenses attending the administration of the office of the collector of 
the 6 district of jS\ C. for the quarter ending June 30, 1873. 



Name of deputy, clerk, or other party 
to wbom payments are made. 



Amounts paid. 



o a 



J. A. Ham say 

J. C. Mcintosh.. . 

J. 0. A. Bryan 

N. W. Lillingtou 

H.T.Mott 

K. M. AValker . . . 

P.E.Martin 

J. H. Perry 

J. A. Clarke 

W. W.Mott 



$332 97 
171 00 
171 00 



332 97 
164 83 



171 00 



$375 00 
112 61 



(In lead pencil) . 



1, 343 77 
487 61 



1, 343 77 



1, 831 38 



J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

I, J. J. Mott, collector of district No. 6, in the State of N. C, do solemnly swear that 
the foregoing statement is in all respects just and true, according to my best knowl- 
edge and belief ; that the several items charged, as set forth in detail therein, are at 
the reasonable and customary prices at the place where the charges were incurred ; 
that each and all of them were necessary for the proper discharge of my official duties ; 
that I have not received or retained, and am not entitled to receive or retain, for the 
benefit of myself or other persons, directly or indirectly, any portion of the sums 
charged or disbursed; and that the disbursements charged were made in good faith. 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

Sworn and subscribed before me, this, the 21st day of Sept., 1874. 

W. Y. BAILEY, Dep'y ColVr. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 55 

Q. I niulerstood yoii to say at the opening that you only received -$05 
for that part of a niontli ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott, Mv. Chirk, or those in cliarge of the office, know 
that you had rendered no service during- these three months for whicli 
there is a charge made ?^ A. Thev ought to know it; I can't say as to 
that. 

Q. You were not about the office ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You received no orders from them, nor anything of tliat kind? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. You were at home and doing no service ? — A. The way that was, 
is this: When I was there I had a child taken sick. I went to Dr. Mott 
and told him I would like to go home; he told me all right, and I asked 
him for a little money; he gave me a check for fifteen dollars; I went 
h^ome. At least he told me to stay there until further orders to assign 
lue, or something of that sort, and I went home and staid the balance 
of the month out. Sometime afterwards I wanted some money, and I 
sat down and wrote to him about it. After writing two or three letters 
he sent me a post-office order for fifty dollars. 

Q. Was that all that ever passed between you after you left ? — A. No, 
sir ; we had several conversations about that afterwards. 

Q. State any circumstances that indicated he knew you were not 
<loing work. — A. From what he told me I know it. 

Q. Y^ou never claimed anything more, did you? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did he ever otter to pay you anything more ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did he ever ask you why you never called for more pay ? — A. No, 
sir. He came to see me about it once or twice. 

Q. It seems that the true voucher for $65 is subsequent to the others. 
When did he get that voucher from you? — A. Do you mean the first 
one? 

Q. Yes, the correct voucher for $05, which seems of a later date than 
the other vouchers ? — A. Since the other ones ? 

Q. That true voucher is approved in September, 1874; the others are 
January, 1873, April, 1873, and July, 1873 ?— A. What is the date of that 
first voucher— the one I signed? 

Q. For $05 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is sworn to the 11th of September, '74. It seems that these 
others are dated prior to that, and this is dated subsequently ? — A. I 
don't know how that is. I have got a memorandum of the time I re- 
ceived the post-office order. 

Q. When was that? — A. (Looking). That was October 30, 1872. 

Q. That closed up your payments? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the genuine voucher was really paid you, but was not called 
for till '741 — A. It was sometime after I got the money. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool: 

Q. Were you ever iDaid anything more than the $05? — A. That was 
all I ever received. 

Q. You did service for that $05? — A. No, sir; I never did any service 
at all. 

Q. Not for the $05 ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Not for the three weeks ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you an officer at the time covered by the $65? — A. Yes, sir; 
Dr. Mott toid me to go home, and he would assign me to duty; but I 
never got any orders. 

Q. What was the position you held then ? — A. Deputy collector. 

Q. You reside at Salisbury ? — A. Yes, sir. 



56 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. And remained deputy collector only three weeks ? — A. It was a 
month, I thought. I might have been mistaken. 

Q. Were you an officer at the time of these other vouchers spoken of — 
January, April, and July, 1873 ? — A. 'No, sir ; not to my knowledge. 

Q. You were not appointed to any position at all at that time"? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. How were the deputies then appointed? — A. Dr. Mott gave me 
the appointment. 

Q. How did you come to be appointed ? — A. Through the solicitation 
of some of my friends, who asked Dr. Mott to give me an appointment. 

Q. That was in 1873, was it? — A. I think it was along thereabouts. 

Q. About what time in 1873 "? — A. I can't remember — can't recollect. 

Q. Did he give you an appointment ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And told you to go home until he assigned you to duty? — A. Yes^ 
sir. 

Q. How long did you stay in Statesville ? — A. I think, the best of my 
recollection, I was there about a week or ten days. 

Q. And then you were sent back to Salisbury ? — A. Yes, sir ; I was 
not sent back, I went back. 

Q. And the voucher was put in then for three weeks ? — A. I signed 
it in blank; I don't know what it was for. 

Q. Then this other matter occurred in '73, and you signed in July, 
'73, a voucher that was sent to you by mail ? — A. That is my recollec- 
tion. 

Q. You say you were not an officer at that time ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How came you to sign a voucher for pay when not an officer ? — 
A. Simply because they told me the other voucher had been lost or 
misplaced. 

Q. Which other one do you mean? — A. I had signed another one 
before that. 

Q. For the sum of $375? — A. No, sir; I never signed one for $375. 

Q. You signed it in blank ?— A. Yes, sir ; I signed it in blank. 

Q. Shortly after you signed one, you signed another to take the place 
of it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How came 3"ou to sign either of these, when you were not an offi- 
cer? — A. They told me I was paid, and for that reason I got the money 
before I sent anything. The money was paid to me, and afterwards I 
signed these blanks. 

Q. Do you know whether these vouchers, signed in blank, in that w^ay, 
were ever allowed to Dr. Mott ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know how these vouchers came to be made out ? — A. No, 
sir. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. Do you kuow about the time you were in the service, and these 
vouchers were sent to you, that there had been a change in the reve^iue 
law, abolishing the o.lice of assessor? — A. At the time I had this ap- 
pointment ? 

Q. Yes. — A. Yes, sir ; the assessor had been — I don't think he had 
been, because the assessor was the gentleman whose influence got me 
the place — I don't think he had been discharged. 

Q. Shortly after that the law was changed, and so the office of assessor 
was abolished? — A. Yes, sir; I could not swear positively whether 
abolished or not — don't think it was. 

Q. Yon know it was soon after? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that after the abolition of tlie office of assessor the duty of 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 57 

collecting tbe reveuue devolved entirely upon the collector aud his de- 
puties or emploj'es, did it not ? — A. 1 presume so. It is a matter I 
know verj" little about. That is my information. 

Q. Did any one tell you that these vouchers you signed were for the 
purpose of making up an estimate showing what it would cost to run 
the district, or anything of tliat kind? — A.. No, sir; I can explain to 
you how it was told to me by Mr. Clarke, who was in the service, and 
Dr. Mott also. 

Q. Mr. Clarke talked with you about the matter? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that was the way you were induced to sign one of the larger 
vouchers ? — A. I never signed them at all. 

Q. You had no knowledge of their making up any estimate, or any- 
thing of that kind, as to the expenses ? — A. l^o, sir ; none at all. 

J. A. Kamsay sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman: 

Question. Where is your present residence? — Answer. Salisbury, 
iTorth Carolina. 

Q. Were you atone time in the employ of the sixth collection district 
of North Carolina ? — A. I w as. 

Q. How long? — A. Nearly two years. 

Q. From when to when '? — A. From about the 1st of March, 1872, to 
the 18th of February, 1871. 

Q. What compensation were you to receive! — A. Mr. Henry Cowles 
came to Salisbury before the 1st of March, purporting to be the repre- 
sentative of Dr. Mott, and stated that I would receive the salary of 
1100 per month or $1200 per annum. I made no contract with Dr. 
Mott at all. There was nothing said about it. That was the way we 
started it. 

Q. How long were you running that way ? — A. About two months. 

Q. Two months at a salary of $100 per month?— x\. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then what took place"?— A. On or about the 27th of April, 1872, 
I don't recollect precisely the date now, I was assigned to a larger ter- 
ritory, and the salary was increased. 

Q." To how much ? — A. At the rate of $150 per month. 

Q. Did you receive it? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Why did you not! — A. In the settlement they wanted to make, 
they wanted to put the salary at $100 per month. 

Q. Is that your handwriting to that voucher ? (Voucher show^n to wit- 
ness.) — A. It is, John A. Kamsay. 

Q. I find three vouchers here ; one commencing September 30, for the 
last quarter of 1872. — A. That is my signature. 

Q. That voucher is for $150 ! — A. About $300 of it has been received. 

Q. I'ou received only $300 of it! — A. That is all ; so I claim the ba- 
lance. 

The Chairman. We offer in evidence these vouchers. They are the 
originals from the department, which we will have copied by the steno- 
grapher. The original voucher of J. A. Ramsay for $450 (marked 
Exhibit 12) ; the amended abstract of vouchers of Dr. Mott, fixing the 
salary of J. A. Eamsay at $300 (marked Exhibit 13); and the account 
voucher made out for $150, with the approval of the collector that it is 
a just and true charge, for the last quarter of 1872 (marked Exhibit 11.) 



58 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



Exhibit 12 is as follows: 

(63^.) 
(Original.) 

DEPUTY collectors' AND COLLECTOR'S CLERKS' ACCOUNT FOR SEVRICES. 

J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue, 6lh district of K. C, to J. A. Bamsay, dr. 

Tor services rendered as dep'ty coll. of the Gth. district of N. C, during the period 
coiuuiencing Sept. 30, 1872, and ending Dec. 31st, 1872, inclusive : 

Three months, at the rate of $1,800 per annum $450 

days, at the rate of $ per day I 

Commissions on collections, at jjer centum I 

The services were performed at Salishury, Rowan Co.; Charlotte, Mecklenburg Co.; 
Lincolnton, Lincoln Co.; Newton, Columbia Co.; Gaston Co., and Cabarrus Co., and 
were of the following character : Collecting on list. 
Received payment. 

JOHN A. RAMSAY, 

Depf. Coll. 

I, J. A. Ramsay, dep'ty coll. for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6 district of N. C, do sol- 
emnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged ; that such 
services were, in ray opinion, proper and necessary ; that the rate of compensation 
therein stated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is just and reason- 
able ; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, deposit, or 
assign, any j)art of such com^jensation to the use of the collector, or any other person, 
in any way, directly or indirectly, or paid, or given, or contracted to jiay or give, 
any reward or compensation for my office or employment, or the emoluments thereof. 

JOHN A. RAMSAY, 

DejJt. Coll. 
Subscribed and sworn before me this 10th day of Jan'y, 1873. 

J. A. CLARKE, 

Dep'ti/ Coll. 

Exhibit 13 is as follows : 

(63.) — Amended. 

Abstract of vouchers of expenses attending the administration of the office of the collector of 
the sixth district of N. C, for the quarter ending Dec. 31, 1872. 



s 


Name of deputy, clerk, 
to whom payments 






Amounts paid. 


a 

n 




p 

o 
6 


or other party 
are made. 


& . 


CD 

O 


o 
o a 




.be 
o 


S 

a 


1 




300 00 

300 00 

65 00 

235 00 














2 


W. P. Drake 














3 


"W. H. Kestler 














4 


W. M. "Walker 














5 


J. A. Clarke 


375 00 


60 00 










fi 






12 00 








7 










3 00 






S 


Dennis Moore 














(In lead pencil) . . . 




f 900 

375 

60 

12 

3 


















1,350 


















J. 


J. MO 


TT, C 


^Hector. 



I, J. J. Mott, collector of district No. 6 in the State of No. Ca., do solemnly swear 
that the foregoing statement is in all respects just and true, according to my best 
knowledge and belief; that the several items charged, as set forth in detail therein, 
are at the reasonable and customary prices at the place where the charges were in- 
curred ; that each and all of them were necessary for the proper discharge of my offi- 
cial duties ; that I have not received or retained, and am not entitled to receive or 
retain, for the benefit of myself or other persons, directly or indirectly, any portion of 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



59 



the siuns charged or disbursed, and that the disbursements charged were made in good 
taith. 

J. J. MOTT, 

CoUecfor. 
Sworu aud subscribed before me this the "ilst day of Sept., 1874. 

W. Y. BAILEY, 

JJep'tjj ColVr. 
ExiiiiUT 14, 

Abstract of vouchers of expenses attending the admiiiistralion of the office of the collector of 
the Mh district of N. C. for the quarter ending Dec. 31, 1872. 



Name of deputy, clerk, or other party 
to whom paj'ments are made. 



Amounta paid. 






J. A. Kamsay . . 
"W. P. Drake ... 
W. H. Kestler. . 

J. A. Ulai'ke 

R. F. Simontou- 

Lee James 

Denuis Moore . 



4.50 00 
450 00 
375 00 



12 CO 



3 00 



Total , 



(lu lead pencil). 



f 1,275 00 
I 450 00 
60 00 
I 12 00 
I 3 00 



1, 275 00 



450 00 



60 00 12 00 



[ 1, 800 00 



3 00 



J. J. MOTT, Ool lector. 

I, J. J. Mott, collector of district No. 0, iu the State of N. C, do solemnly swear that 
the foregoiug statement is iu all respects just aud true, according to my best knowl- 
edge aud belief; that the several items charged, as set forth in detail therein, are at 
the reasonable aud customary prices at the place where the charges were incurred ; 
that each and all of them were necessary for the proper discharge of my official du- 
ties ; that I have not received or retained, and am not entitled to receive or retain, 
for the benefit of myself or other persons, directly or indirectly, any portion of the 
sums charged or disbursed ; and that the disbursements charged were made in good 
faith. 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

Sworn and subscribed before me this the 11th day of Jan'y, 1873. 

J. A. CLARKE, Depfy Coll. 

Q. Is that your handwriting to that voucher account ? (Showing 
paper to witness.) 

A. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. We offer in evidence a voucher in the usual form 
for the time commencing Januaiy 1, 1873, and ending March 31, 
1873, at the rate of $1,800 per annum; total, $450; sworn to and ap- 
proved in the usual form (marked Exhibit 15), with the original abstract 
of vouchers by Collector Mott affirming it is just and true, and so on 
(marked Exhibit 16). And the amended abstract of vouchers of Dr. 
Mott fixing the salary at $300 instead of $150 (marked Exhibit 17). 
The "original" sworn'to on the 10th of April, 1873, by Dr. Mott, and the 
" amended " sworn to on the 21st September, 1874, by Dr. Mott. 

The Witness. My signature is no where on that amended one, be- 
cause I signed none. 

The Chairman. For that amended voucher there is no account filed 
by the person who did the service, the witness, Mr. Eamsay ; at least not 
sent to me. 



60 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



Exhibit 15. 



(63i.) 
(Original.) 

DEPUTY COLLECTORS' AND COLLECTOR'S CLERK'S ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES. 

J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue, 6 district of N..C., to J. A. Eamsay, Dr. 

For services rendered as depty coll. of the 6district of N. C, during the period com 
mencing Jan'y 1st, 1873, and ending M'ch 31st, 1873, inclusive : 

Three months, at the rate of $1,800 per annum u $450 

days, at the rate of % per day $ 

Commissions on collections, at j)er centum | 

The services were performed at Salisbury, Rowan Co.; Charlotte, Mecklenburg Co.; 
Lincolnton, Lincoln Co.; Newton, Catawba, Co.; Dallas, Gaston Co., and Cabarrus Co., 
and were of the following character: Collecting on list. 

Received payment. 

JOHN A. RAMSAY, Dept. Coll. 

I, J. A. Ramsey, dep'ty coll. for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6 district of N. C, do 
solemnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged ; that 
such services were, in my opinion, proper and necessary; that the rate of compensa- 
tion therein stated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is just and 
reasonable; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, de- 
posit, or assign any part of such compensation to the use of the collector, or any other 
person, iu any way, directly or indirectly, or paid, or given, or contracted to pay or 
give any reward or compensatioa for my office or employmiut or the emoluments 
thereof. 

JOHN A. RAMSAY, Dept. Cbll. 
Subscribed and sworn before me this IGth day of April, 1873. 

J. A. CLARKE, Dept'ij Ull. 

Exhibit 16. 

(63.) 

(Original.) 

Abstract of vouchers of expenses attending the administration of the office of the collector of 
the sixth district of No. Ca. for the quarter ending March 31, 1«73, 









Amounts paid. 


a 

a 

S-i 
ft 

1 




o 
o 


Name of deputy, clerk, or other party 
to wliom payments are made. 




o 
H 


o PI 
o " 


o 


o 


1 
i 


1 


J. A. Eamsay 


450 00 
450 00 
375 00 














2 


W. P. Drake 














8 


W. H. Kestler ■. 














4 


J. A. Clarke 


450 00 












5 


R. r. Simonton 




60 00 










6 


Lee James 




9 00 








7 


Dennis Moore 








3 00 








Total '. 














1, 275 00 


450 00 


60 0,0 


9 00 


3 00 








(In lead pencil) ■: 


'• 1, 275 00 

450 00 

60 00 

9 00 

3 00 






, 1, 797 00 





J. J. MOTT, Collector. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF XORTH CAROLINA. 



61 



I. J. J. Mott, collector of district No. sixth, in the State of N. C, flo solemnly swear 
that the foregoing statement is in all respects just and true, according to my best 
knowledge and belief; that the several items charged, as set forth in detail therein^ 
are at the reasonable and customary prices at the place where the charges were in- 
curred ; that each and all of thorn were necessary for the proper discharge of my 
official duties; that I have not received or retained, and am not entitled to receive or 
retain, for the beneht of myself or other persons, directly or indirectly, any portion of 
the sums charged or disbursed ; and that the disbursements charged were made in 
good faith. 

J. J. MOTT, CoUcctor. 

Sworn and subscribed before me this the 10th day of April, 1873. 

.7. A. CLARKE, Deij'tij Coll. 

Exhibit 17. 



(63.) Amended. 

Abstract of vouchers of expenses attending the administration of the office of the collector of 
the sixth district of N. C, for the quarter ending March, 1873. 





Name of deputy, clerk, or other party 
to whom payments are made. 


Amounts paid. 


a 

i 

s> 
ft 




p 

o 
6 
"A 


H 


00 

o 

H 


o 

o ^ 


=2 

u 
o 


1 

o 


CS 

a 

4; 


1 


J. A. Eamsay 


300 00 
300 00 
300 00 














? 


W. P. Drake 














.S 


W. M. Walker 














A 


J. A. Clarke .' 


375 00 


















60 GO 










fi 








9 00 


















3 00 






Total 














900 00 


375 00 


60 00 


9 00 


3 00 













J. J: mott, Collector. 

I, J. J. Mott, collector of district No. 6, in the State of No. Ca., do solemnly swear 
that the foregoing statement is in all respects just and true, according to my best 
knowledge and belief; that the several items charged, as set forth in detail therein, 
are at the reasonable and customary prices at the place where the charges were in- 
•curred ; that each and all of them wei'e necessary for the proper discharge of my offi- 
cial duties ; that I have not received or retained, and am not entitled to receive or 
retain, for the benefit of myself or other persons, directly or indirectly, any portion 
of the sums charged or disbursed, and that the disbursements charged were made in 
^ood faith. 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

Sworn and subscribed before me this the 21st day of Sept., 1874. 

W. Y. BAILEY, B'p'ty ColVr. 

The Chairman. Then we offer in evidence a voucher in the same form 
for the period commencing April 1, 1873, and ending- June 30, 1873, for 
$450. This is the second quarter, in the usual form verified (marked 
Exhibit 18) with the original abstract of vouchers, Dr. Mott swearing 
to its correctness on the 10th of July, 1873. (See Exhibit 10.) And the 
amended abstract of vouchers sworn to by Dr. Mott on the 21st of Sep- 
tember, 1874. (See Exhibit 11.) 

(Paj)er shown to witness.) 

The Witness. For the month of April I do not claim the $50. For 
May and June I do. That was prior to the agreement between the col- 
lector and myself. 

Q. So this voucher for the second quarter of 1873 is too much by $50, 
for the reason you give ? — A. Yes, sir. 



62 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL REVENUE IN 

Exhibit 18. 

(63^.) 

Original. 

DEUPTY collectors' AND COLLECTOR'S CLERKS' ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES. 

J. J. AToli, collector of iniernal revenue 6 district of N. C, to J. A. Ramsay, Dr. 

For services rendered as depnty of the 6 district of N. C, during the period com- 
mencing April 1st, 1873, and ending June 30, 1873, inclusive. 

Three months, at the rate of $1,800 per annum $450 00' 

days, at the rate of $ per day % 

Commissions on collections, at per centum | 

The services Avere performed at Sfcatesville, Charlotte, Concord, Salisburj^, Lincoln- 
ton, and Dallas, and were of the foUow^ing character; Collecting on list, and taking 
return of distillers, manufacturers of tobacco & cigars, brewers, &o. 
Eeceived payment. 

JOHN A. EAMSAY, Dept. Coll. 

I, J. A. Eamsay, dep'ty for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6 district of N. C, do sol- 
emnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged; that such 
services were, in my oxjinion, proper and necessary ; that the rate of compensation 
therein stated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is just and reason- 
able ; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, deposit, or 
assign any part of such compensation to the use of the collector, or any other person 
in any way, directly or indirectly, or paid, or given, or contracted to pay or give any 
reward or compensation for my office or employment, or the emoluments thereof. 

JOHN A. EAMSAY, Dejil. Coll. 

. Subscribed and sworn before me this 10th day of July, 1873. 

' J. A. CLAEKE, DepHy Coll. 

Q. Will you state whether you were ever asked to sign any other 
vouchers? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When? — A. Some time in '74; I don't recollect. Well, there were 
several applications. Mr. Clark came down first, some time, I think,, 
about the latter part of February, 1874, and asked me to sign different 
vouchers. 

Q. Different from those already signed? — A. Yes, sir. He said there 
was something wrong about it. I declined to do it. I told him I had 
signed one set. Then Dr. Mott himself came down and insisted upon 
my signing another set. I declined. Then Mr. John M. Horah came 
down and insisted upon me signing another set. I declined to sign the 
regular printed form. I told him I would sign after consultation with 
the attorneys, and state what I had received, reserving all rights of 
action to recover the balance due. 

Q. When was that? — A. That was done some time in '74. I can't rec- 
ollect the dates positively. 

Q. There is some testimony here taken out of Eeferee Henderson's 
report; perhaps it will refresh your memory as to dates. — A. I had the 
papers by me Avhen that was given. 

Q. In this testimony which you gave before Eeferee Henderson, in 
the suit between CoUectoi Mott and yourself, you say this was in the 
spring of 1874. Now, with that reminder, do you think that is right? — 
A. Horah came to me in the spring of '74. 

Q. Yes; when they tried to get you to sign other vouchers. — A. Dr. 
Mott came to me some time in the spring; Mr. Horah sometime, I think^ 
in the summer. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 6^ 

Q. AVhat I want to fix, Mr. Eainsay, if it be true, that you declined 
to sign these voucbers as presented to you, and cbxinied tbat your pay 
was to be $150 a nioutb. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you intimated tbat you woubl bring suit for tbe balance, if 
not paid to you, but you were ready to give special receipts for what 
you had actiially received, reserving to yourself any rights you might 
have at law? — A. Exactly. I had already counseled with an attorney 
before that in regard to bringing a suit for it. 

Q. What I want to show is, that Dr. IMott understood that.— A. There 
is something with reference to that matter there (indicating referee';* 
report). You will see the statement of the attorney, Mr. Blackmar. 

Q. I want to know if they understood from your language that they 
would have a lawsuit before this thing would be settled as they wanted 
it to be ? — A. Yes, sir. I had taken counsel for the purpose of bringing- 
a lawsuit. 

Q. And that amended voucher appears to have been made in Sep- 
tember, 1874, after this time they tried to get you to settle? — A. I know 
nothing about that amended voucher, only from rumor. I never saw it. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. You were in the revenue service from March, 1872, to February^ 
1874 — two years f — A. Nearly two years. 

Q. Your 'first agreement was that your salary was to be $100 a 
month? — A. That was what Mr. Cowles said. I had no arrangement 
with Dr. Mott about it. 

Q. Did you receive that?— A. The $100 a month ? ' 

Q. Yes, sir.— A. I did. 

Q. You had been in the revenue service previous to that? — A. Yes,, 
sir. 

Q. Under the former collector, Wy lie? — A. Yes, sir. With the excep- 
tion of the last quarter I got $100 per month. For the last quarter that 
I was in, or part of it — my duties were considerably enlarged — he told 
me I should have all the surplus; he would take my receipts for $150 
per month. 

Q. That was Mr. Wylie ? — A. Yes, sir. Whatever balance there was^ 
I was to get it. 

By Senator McDill: 

Q. What does that mean, "balance"? — A. Ofthe appropriation allowed 
him. 

Q. If he could save anything over, you would be allowed $150 a month? 
— A. Mr. Beard, one of his deputies, retired, which made me work harder. 
He told me I should have $100 certain, if he had to pay it himself, but 
if the balance should run to $150, I should have that. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. That was under Mr. Wylie?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When under Dr. Mott $100 a month was paid to you? — A. Yes^ 
sir; paid by check. 

Q. Afterwards you understood or claimed it was increased to $150 a 
month ? — A. Dr. Mott himself made the agreement, in the old collector's 
office, up in the corner of what is known as the Miller House. 

Q. And Dr. Mott did send on for you vouchers for that amount, $150? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know they were disallowed for that amount by the depart- 
ment ? — A. That don't have any reference to it. Nothing was said about 
that. 



64 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. I am not speakiug with, any application to Dr. Mott. — A. It was 
so understood, that thej^ were disallowed. 

Q. And you were not allowed but $100? — A. What I understood. I 
got that from Mr. Horah. Mr. Horah told me they would not allow 
but that $100 to be paid. 

Q. Then Dr. Mott made an amended voucher for what they were 
willing to pay — the $100? — A. Yes; and wanted me to receipt for it. 

Q. You would not receipt for it? — A. No, sir; because the contract 
was for more. 

Q. Had you not been paid that $100? — A. That $100 was paid pre- 
vious to this controversy. 

Q. You have been jjaid the $100 allowed you in these vouchers? — A. 
Y^es, sir. I knew the collectors had a right to make their own contracts 
with the deputies. They were allowed so much to run the district, and 
then make their own contracts. 

Q. Your claim was that Dr. Mott should pay you $150, whether he 
was allowed it or not? — A. Yes, sir ; it was a contract between him and 
myself. I did the work of two deputies. The agreement was in this 
wise, and brought about in this manner : He remarked on the 27th of 
April that he was going to discharge one of the deputies, and asked 
what I would make the collections for in that entire district. I told 
him it would incretise the traveling expenses fully fifty per cent., and I 
thought that would be about right. To that he responded : I would 
rather pay it all to one than to two men. I told him fifty per cent, would 
be satisfactory to me. 

Q. Do you mean to say that Dr. Mott could himself discharge a dep- 
uty ? — A. That is what he said. 

Q. How many was he allowed, do you know? — A. He was allowed 
three, I think ; that is my recollection ; I am not positive about that ; 
I did hear he got the allowance that Mr. Wylie had, and my recol- 
lection with that amount, Mr. Wylie had three, and paid the three. 

Q. The collector had no discretion about that ; he could not have 
more than the number allowed him by the department ? — A. The collec- 
tor made application for an allowance to run the district. Sometimes 
he had more, sometimes less, when allowed so much. 

Q. Don't you know that there was some difference in the system of 
collecting under Mr. Wylie than under his successor, Dr. Mott 1 — A. 
IS'one at all at that time, nor any until a year after that. 

Q. That was until 1873 ? — A. Yes, sir ; there was no change in the 
plan of collection until the assessor's office was abolished. 

Q. And it was at that time you understood your salary was raised to 
■$150? — A. No, sir; my salary was reduced to $125, and I was given 
four counties. Prior to that time I had the collections to make of the 
entire district. 

Q. Then I understand, you did not receive the $100, and you exjjected 
Dr. Mott to pay you the $50 whether allowed him or not ? — A. That 
was his contract with me. I rendered the service, and thought I was 
entitled to it. 

Q. You make no allegation that Dr. Mott ever received any more 
on that account than he paid to jon ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott promise to do anything more than to recommend it ? 
— A. No, sir ; he promised it straight out. I was not going to the ex- 
tra expense unless he had done it, because I incurred heavy traveling 
•expenses, and at the end of the year was in debt. 

Q. Could he not have got any man to do it for $100? — A. He could 
iave got two men for $100 each. I was in debt at the end of the year 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 65 

at the $100. If I had got the $50 allowed, it would not much more than 
have ijaid expenses. 

Q. Your construction of it is, that he was to pay you $150 whether 
allowed it or not, and not simply to recommend it and try to get it for 
you"? — A. Yes, sir. The district consisted of twelve counties; I was 
held responsible for every bit of the tax, and had to get it. Sometimes 
travel forty or fifty miles, and hardly got taxes enough to pay for the 
expenses of making the trip. 

Q. I understand your complaint against Dr. Mott to be, that he would 
not pay you $50 out of his pocket? — A. No, sir. I understood him to 
drop one deputy and I took the place of two. 

Q. Did he have the right to drop a deputy? — A. The deputies were 
appointed and dismissed at his will. 

Q. He had the appointment and dropping of deputies? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Without the department here ? — A. The department does not ap- 
point them. He merely notifies the department when he appointed and 
when he dropped any one — at that time. 

Q. Why did you decline to sign the other set of vouchers ; was it be- 
cause you thought it too little? — A. Y"es, sir. 

Q. He wanted you to sign the set of vouchers that the department 
was allowing ? — A. He wanted me to sign a set of vouchers for a less 
amount than I contracted with him to receive. 

. Q. That was for the amount allowed him — the $100? — A. He wanted 
me to sign vouchers for $100. At that time I did not know what was 
allowed. This other information came up since. 

Q. Did you not agree with Mr. Horah at one time that you would set- 
tle with Dr. Mott ? — A. He told me I would have to settle with him. 

Q. Did you not agree with him to that effect? — A. No, sir; I did 
]iot. He had said he wanted me to sign. I refused to do it, and did 
not do it. 

Q. You never agreed to make any settlement before the suit at all ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever sue Dr. Mott? — A. He brought suit against me, and 
I brought a counter-claim ; before he had brought that suit, I had em- 
ployed an attorney in that county. 

Q. What did he claim against you in the suit? — A. Two hundred and 
some odd dollars. 

Q. For what"? — A. He said it was for collections not returned. 

Q. Of special taxes? — A. Internal revenue. I don't think it was 
specified. 

Q. Did not the deputies at that time collect special taxes and settle 
them with the collector ? — A. We collected all kinds of taxes. 

Q. He made the allegation that you had not settled for all your col- 
lections with him ? — A. He made the allegation there was that much 
due from me, as he at first claimed a larger amount — more than was 
due. 

Q. Due from you to him ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. With collections ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You brought a counter claim that he lacked $50 a month in pay- 
ing you for your services ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that is the state of the litigation between you ? — A. There 
was a long period when there was no payments at all, only in the way 
of collections. Mott said, "you are traveling about and collecting for 
the government, and I don't think there is any impropriety in paying 
these expenses in that way." 

Q. You paid yourself out of your collections ? — A. Yes, sir. 
S. Mis. 110 5 



QQ COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

Q. And his allegation was that you applied more than you had a 
right to? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You did not settle, and he sued you on that ground, and you 
brought a counter claim f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he dismiss you from the service?— A. He told me that my 
appointment would cease, and then he wanted me to close up. 

Q. And ifc did cease? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. On this ground, was it ? — A. I don't know for what. There was 
no trouble; nothing said of that kind. The only reason assigned was 
that I was a deputy and making drawings of the distilleries, which I 
did at his own request, and he said the department complained of it. 
That was all the reason ever assigned. I did it at his request, and at 
reduced i)rices. 

Q. That suit is still pending ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Not settled yet? — A. ]^o, sir. 

Q. Not settled whether you owe him or not? — A. No, sir. I brought 
the case up at this court, but his attorney made a statement that Dr. 
Mott could not be there at the trial. 

Q. How long has the suit been pending? — A. Somewhere in the 
neighborhood of six years. 

Q. It is alleged that you made collections which you did not settle 
for ? — A. I don't recollect his complaint now, but the substance of it 
was that $260, or thereabouts, was due him. 

Q. Do you deny that amount? — A. I do ; I claim, on the other hand^ 
that there was some five or six hundred dollars due me. 

Q. In this $50 a month held back? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Not for anything else; and he charges there is $276 due him? — A. 
He failed to allow some disbursements made on account of his office 
and on his orders, for postage stamps and ol3ice furniture, reducing my 
salary, thus making up this estimate, $276. 

Q. The substance of it is that you did receive the $100 a month? — A. 
That would not leave that $276. There is not that much due him. 
I did not — had I received the $100 a month all through, but he ruled 
out an amount for office furniture and stamps purchased for the office. 

Q. But if you were confined to that $100 there would be some of that 
due against you ? — A. There would be a part of it due. 

Q. Provided they did not give you but the $100 ? — A. Something due^ 
but nothing like that amount. 

Q. That is, you applied from your collections to your own purpose more 
than $100 a month? — A. In traveling expenses through the district, as 
I remarked before. Incurring the expenses I did, I was in debt at the 
end of the year. I would state in explanation, on my first appointment, I 
had only half, or half the district and one county over. On the second 
appointment I was to have the whole twelve counties, and to look after 
the collection of the taxes from the whole district, and it remained so 
until, I think, about the latter part of May or June, 1873 ; don't remem- 
ber now which. I think it closed June, 1873. After that I was assigned 
to four counties at $125 per month, and about that amount has been 
paid. There is no controversy about that. With the reservation I have 
mentioned, those accounts being ruled out, leaves that balance. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Have you observed anything of the workings of the revenue de- 
partment there since you ceased to be an officer ? — A. No, sir ; I can't 
say that I have any direct knowledge at all of it. 

Q. Do you know anything about the division of stills into a number 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 67 

of smaller ones that is going on down there ? — A. Nothing only com- 
mon rnmor. 

Q. Do you know anything about the way in which storekeepers are 
appointed — what hand the distillers have in appointing them ? — A, Dur- 
ing the time I was connected with the service there was but one ap- 
pointment there could be any reasonable fault with, and Dr. Mott spoke 
with me about that ; he remarked he thought there was something ques- 
tionable about it, but that he was placed in a position that he did not 
know how to get at it. 

Q. Who was that f — A. It was a distillery run bj' Hall «& Benbow. 
I think Benbow was the mail's name who ran the distillery first. After- 
wards it was Fold out and Benbow apijlied for the storekeepership. 

Q. Hall & Benbow were partners, and they dissolved? — A. Hall was 
a silent partner. 

Q. And then it was sold to Hall entirely, and Benbow remained a 
store-keeper? — A. Yes, sir. He remarked he did not like the course of 
affairs, but did not know what course to take. 

Q. That was while you were in office"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Since that time do you know of any cases existing where store- 
keepers divide their pay with distillers ? — A. Only common rumor. 

Q. Can you give the names of parties whom rumor says did these 
things, so that you may aid the investigation ? — A. I heard one store- 
keeper saying something about it ; don't recollect precisely what he 
said. He is now out of the service, and judge that was the cause of 
it. His name was Bruner. 

Q. What was the cause of it ? — A. He would not divide with the dis- 
tiller. 

Q. Where is he?— A. Salisbury, K C. 

Q. What is his given imme ? — A. Thomas K. Bruner. 

Q. Is he the only one you heard speak on that subject ? — A. Yes, sir. 
I had nothing to do with the re\'enue service since, and have not talked 
with any one about it. He was down at my house one evening, rather 
out of humor, and just remarked he would do nothing first before he 
would work and pay somebody else. 

Q. I will ask you if it is not the common understanding in that coun- 
try, so far as you know, that distillers dictate who their storekeepers, 
shall be, and refuse to run if they do not get them ? — A. During my 
connection with the service I heard but one distiller make any such 
statement as that, and that was a man by the name of Mull. He stated, 
if he did not get aman to suit he would not run. It was when I went up 
to take the capacity of his distillery, to which I replied, " I guess you will 
take whom they send." Said he, " If they don't send a man to suit me 
I won't run." 

Q. Did he afterwards run "? — A. He did. 

Q. The presumption is he got a man that suited liim ? — A. Well, he- 
complained of Dr. Mott, I think, shortly after. Said he could not get 
him to talk with him ; he was very indifferent and would not talk with a 
common man. He did not get any satisfaction out of the doctor, and 
that is the reason he approached me, saying he could not do anything: 
through him. I told him he could not do anything more with me than 
with the doctor. He is the only man I heard of — that I know of my own 
personal knowledge. 

Q. I asked if it was not the common understanding that distil lers could 
dictate who their storekeepers should be? — A. I have heard it said; 
whether any ground for it I could not say ; heard it spoken of several 
times. 



68 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Do you know of any case where one distillery has been made into 
two or three by dividing it ?— A. ISTo, sir ; I don't. In Eowan County 
there is very little of that sort of work carried on, 

Q. There is very little distilling in that county? — A. Audi travel 
very little through the upper counties where the distilling is carried on. 
My business since then is in a different line. 

Cross-examination resumed. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You did not hear any complaint of this kind from Mr. Bruner 
until after he was discharged ? — A. Xo ; I think he had ceased then. 
From his statement he is not discharged yet ; only not assigned. 

Q. Out of employ ? — A. Out of employ. 

Q. And you say Mr. Bruner was in ill humor ?— A. He was complain- 
ing as if he had not been treated right. 

Q. Mr. Mull is a distiller 1 — A. I think he is. 

Q. He is not a revenue officer ? — A. I don't know that he is. I have 
not seen him for seven or eight years. 

Q. He said he would not run unless he could get a storekeeper to 
suit him ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He talked with Dr. Mott about it, and could not get any satisfac- 
tion out of the doctor ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He tried to get a little more satisfaction out of you, and you could 
give him no more ! — A. ISTot a bit ; he would have to take whoever was 
assigned to him. 

Q.' He did run the distillery ? — A. He finally got ready to run ; I 
don't think he ran until after I left the service. I have no recollection 
about being at his distillery after it was running ; I think this conver- 
sation was in the summer or the fall of 1873. 

Q. You do not pretend to say that he did get a storekeeper to suit 
]3iui ■? — A. !N"o, sir ; I don't know whether he got one to suit him or not. 

Q. You don't know anything except he could not get any satisfaction 
out of Dr. Mott nor out of you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were asked if there was not a common rumor down there that 
there was a division between storekeepers and distillers, and you said 
you had heard it ; do you mean to say that this rumor was a common 
one "? — A. I heard it spoken of by several connected with the service, 
or who had transactions with it; and of course by those outside of the 
l^arties interested in the revenue service. 

Q. Was it anything more than a i)olitical rumor 1 — A. 1 can't say 
upon what foundation it was. 

Q. Did you hear it at any other time, except when a political cam- 
paign was going on? — A. I can't say as to that; I just heard it float- 
ing around — spoken of by several individuals. I can't pretend to fix 
the time nor men — the individuals that I heard speaking of it. 

Q. I noticed the question when put to you about a "common under- 
standing " ; do you mean to say that a common rumor was a common 
understanding ; is there any difference in your mind between the two 1 — 
A. My idea about a rumor is where several parties are speaking of it — 
not confined to two or three, but where it is a sort of rumor in the air 
that you meet every now and then. 

Q. Would you say that was an " understanding," or just a suspicion of 

it ? A. I don't know that I would be prepared to define between those 

two. It is a matter of volition with persons as to what their under- 
standing of a thing is. I would say that an understanding has some- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 69 

thing rather positive about it ; while you could not say it positively, 
but to the best of your knowledge and belief; while a common rumor 
would be something you would not be eutitled to give any more than a 
passing credibility to. 

Q. And this thing was rumor and not understanding'? — A. Eumor; 
could not say it was understanding ; I may be wrong and may be right. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. I understood you to say to Colonel Pool that this rumor was 
mostly among those who had dealings with the distillers? — A. Yes, sir. 

J. A. Clarke recalled and cross-examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. You heard what Mr. Kestler said in regard to the making 
out of these vouchers, and your own name was used. I wish that 
you would give such an explanation of that whole transaction as the 
circumstances surrounding it require. — Answer. lu giving my evi- 
dence the other day I overlooked the Kestler matter when asked. In 
regard to the vouchers, I did it, as said before, as a mere matter of form. 
Dr. Mott being away, the quarterly account had to go on. I made up 
such vouchers as I had and sent them on. He was off in the district 
doing campaign work and things of that kind, and I believe I signed 
one of Mr. Kestler's, not knowing at that time he was not a deputy, but 
afterwards found out, and made amended vouchers as they were ap- 
liointfed. Dr. Mott had men specially working all through the district, 
which he paid, and he paid most of them himself. As I said, I made 
these and put them in. Dr. Mott did not tell me at that time who were 
the deputies. Mr. Kestler had been there. I did not know whether he 
was at work or not ; had not known Dr. Mott xery long. 

Q. The sort of service he was on was in the nature of a secret service ? — 
A. So I suppose — policing in different counties all over the district. 

Q. He belonged, therefore, to a class of which you would not know 
when a party was in or when a party was out? — A. jS^o, sir. 

Q. And in Dr. Mott's absence you made these out without his knowl- 
edge? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you neglect to make Dr. Mott an explanation of it when he 
came home ? — A. Yes, sir ; it went on until some outside parties spoke 
of it ; then it was explained by amended accounts. 

Q. In which you left Mr. Kestler out ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was any of these vouchers ever paid by the department ! — A. 
No. sir. So much was allowed to run the district. Dr. Mott changed 
the appointment of men. 

Q. Nothing was ever allowed Kestler? — A. Only the $G5. 

Q. So that really no money was ever drawn from the department on 
account of these vouchers? — A. No, sir; just what was allowed by the 
auditor's report. 

Q. Was Dr. Mott engaged in a political campaign at that time ? — A. 
I think so; Dr. Mott was everywhere going about. 

Q. Was it in the campaign of 1872 ? — A. Yes, sir; I think it must be. 
It has been a long time ago, and don't remember about these things. 

Q. Do you recollect it was a very exciting cami^aign ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Everybody was engaged in it who was in politics at all exten- 
sively? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. This was shortly after Dr. Mott's appointment? — A. Yes, sir; the 
same year. 



70 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. The summer followiug liis appointment in the spring? — A. He 
did not get the office nntil the 15th of March. 

Q. This was the summer following ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you then go with Dr. Mott "? You had been employed in the 
revenue service ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where at"? — A. The fourth district — Ealeigh. 

Q. The Metropolitan district ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How came [s'ou to go up to Dr. Mott's district ? — A. For the pur- 
pose of starting the office, with the understanding I would stay about 
thirty days. Henry Cowles was going to be clerk, I think. 

Q. There was a supervisor of internal revenue at that tiEpe? — A. 
Yes, sir; Mr. Perry. 

Q. Mr. Perry recommended you to be sent up there? — A. Yes, sir; 
very highly. 

Q. For the purpose of having an experienced hand with the collector 
to start things ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He went off' through the summer when you made this mistake ? — A. 
I did not so consider it — hardly in that way. A great many collectors 
are paid by commission, and still put these things in. They were allowed 
to hire their deputies and pay commission on what they collected. 

Q. And you generally made up all the j)apers in the office to be sent 
to the department ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You did not submit them to Dr. Mott ; you usually signed them 
without explanation to him ? — A. Yes, sir ; he hardly ever looked at 
the face of the papers. * 

Q. He signed them reljing upon your experience ? — A. Sometimes 
had not seen them at all : sometimes signed them in blank. 

Q. On the faith of your experience as being sent there by the super- 
visor ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It appears from the testimony of Mr. Kestler himself that he had 
not seen some of these papers where his name appears ? — A. I stated I 
signed one of them myself. I wanted to make the papers up. 

Q. All these dex:)uties gave you authority to sign their names, when 
they were absent, to formal papers ? — A. Generally so. I am not certain. 

Q. These papers were made up quarterly? — A. Yes, sir; every three 
months. 

Q. The department knew the number of deputies down there ? — A. 
Yes, sir; they were, allowed so many, at such prices. 

Q. And if a deputy's name went in that was not among the number 
the department would know — although you certified to it — it was a mis- 
take? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So there was no danger of anybody being deceived up here ? — A. 
No. No money here would then be allowed. 

Q. In point of fact nothing was allowed? — A. They only paid what 
they thought was right; they might have been sent up for $10,000, but 
would not get it. 

Q. There was no possibility of drawing any money on such things ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you feel free to make up these accounts of these deputies if 
any of them happened to be absent, and to put their names to them? — 
A. I thought it no harm. I did nothing I thought was wrong in the 
matter. 

Q. You regarded it all as a matter of form; the department knew all 
about it here ? — Yes, sir. 

Q. So your mistake could not have any effect up here at all ? — A. No 
effect, as the department did not allow anything of that kind. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 71 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Yoa said just now that Dr. Mott did not know of these things 
that were done ? — A. Did not know which ? 

Q. Did not know these accounts were made out improperly? — A. At 
tbat time he did not. No, sir. 

Q. You swore the other day, when you were examined in chief, that 
he did know of it, and that it was done for a certain purpose ? — A. 
That was in the statement I made at the time that the ofiice of assessor 
was abolished — not about the Kestler matter. 

Q. (Quoting) — 

Q. You made these accounts up for those gangers? — A. Yes, sir; made x\]} their 
vouchers. 

Q. In the case of the deputy collectoi-s, you say that was done for the purpose of 
increasiug the estimate, as you have explained? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was known to Dr. Mott ? — A. Yes, sir ; known to everybody ahnost ; we 
made no secret of it at all, and I think Mr. Wheeler rather advised to make as big a 
showing as we could, knowing we had a large district to look after. 

The approval of these vouchers was signed and sworn to by Dr. 
Mott, as set forth in his aftidavit, and you can't say that he did not 
know what he swore to ? — A. We never swore each other. 

Q. This certificate that it was sworn to, then, is false "? — A. He did 
not swear to it. 

Q. Although the certificate says he did swear to it; then that is a 
forgery f Did Mr. Kestler at any time authorize you to make out these 
vouchers for him ? — A. I am not certain ; a great many of the deputies 
did. 

Q. Don't you know who did? — A. Don't know who did. 

Q. You thought it no harm to make these out and sign his name ? — 
A. I sent it on to get my accounts in. 

Q. And the oath attached to these papers was not really taken ? — 
A. Not taken. 

Q. It was all done by you, and you thought it no harm ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Were you not indicted about this ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What were 3'ou indicted for ? — A. About the gangers of the dis- 
trict. 

Q. You had done the gangers accounts in the same way ? — A. No, . 
sir. I only made up their accounts from their vouchers. They indicted 
me to keep me from being a witness. 

Q. What was the offense charged against you"?— A. For aiding the 
gangers of the district to ])erpetrate fraud. 

Q. What became of that indictment ? — A. Xoll -prossed. 

Q. You were let otf, in other words ; they did not i^ush it against you ? — 
A. I tried to get it pushed at any cost. 

Q. You were sworn before Mr. Henderson, referee in this suit between 
Mott aud Eamsay ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is this a correct copy of your testimony ? — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. Let me read it to you to see if it is correct (quoting): 

J. A. Clarke, being duly sworn, deposeth and saith : 

I now reside in Atlanta, Ga., and have been since March 15, 1879. I was chief clerk 
for Dr. Mott from March, 1872, to May 24, 1874. It was customary for the deputy col- 
lectors to sign their vouchers in blank. Captain Ramsay signed his that way." We 
filled up the vouchers for larger amounts than was actually paid for the purpose, if 
possible, of getting a large allowance and increase of pay. We wished to get as 
much for the deputies and employt^s as the government would allow. Captain Ram- 
say's vouchers were tilled up for $-150 per month, as a general thing. The same plan 
was applied to others. I myself received .$1,500 a year, but my vouchers were for 



72 COLLECTION OF ITTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

$1,800. Captain Eamsay was paid the amounts a]lowed. by government, as stated in 
tlie transcript of letters on file. Captain Ramsay never told me he was to receive, by 
special contract, |150 per month. 

The government objected to the filing of vouchers for a larger amount than was 
actually paid the employ68. A fuss was made about it, and Dr. Mott was required 
to get vouchers for the true amounts, which was done, and all the employes signed 
except Captain Ramsay. He never told me what he was paying any of the deputies. 
I kept the records and knew what he was paying. 

A. That was after the office got started. Now Eamsay, he was a col- 
lector on the list and had to sell stamps and collect special taxes, and 
of course I had to keep a strict account with him ; the other men were 
policing, &c. 

Q, What time were you discharged ? — A. Discharged the 15th of May, 
1874. 

Mr. Pool. I do not understand the explanation the witness made to 
you of the testimony that he gave when he was on the stand before in 
reference to Mr. Kestler. 

The Chairman. In the examination-in-chief I do not think the Kest- 
ler case was mentioned. 

Mr. Pool. When the examination-in-chief was read to him ; what he 
testified to there occurred after. 

The Witness. I explained that the other day. It was the time when 
the assessors' offices were abolished in the United States. I had refer- 
ence then to Dr. Mott knowing the accounts. 

Q. You say that Dr. Mott did not know about making up these Kestler 
accounts? — A. No, sir. 

Q. In your direct examination you said he did know what was spoken 
of then. That was after? — A. That happened in 1873 ; a different mat- 
ter. I did not speak of the Kestler matter at all in the examination the 
other day. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You spoke generally of the deputies' accounts, and he was a dep- 
uty? — A. I had forgotten it; about another deputy; had not thought 
about it for ten years, and said I would have to make an explanation 
to the committee. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. In regard to Mr. Kestler? — A. Yes, sir. 
Q. Which is the explanation you make here now? — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Then you wish your explanation to stand that Dr. Mott knew ol 
all the rest of the accoants made out except Kestler's? — A. He knew 
all of 1873, when we took the vouchers for so many. He knew of them, 
but the other matter 

Q. Which "other matter"? — A. The Kestler matter. 

Q. The Kestler matter was in 1872 or 1873.— A. It was in 1872 or 
early part of 1873. The assessor's office was abolished about the 10th of 
May, 1873. I think he was in then. 

Adjourned till Wednesday, June 21, at 10 a. m. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 73 

WASHiNaTON, Wednesday, June 21, 1882. 

The committee met at 10 a. m. 

W. H. Kestler recalled and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. When you were examined about these vouchers the other 
day, two of which you had signed in blank, and the others that you said 
were forgeries ? — Answer. Yes, sir. 

Q. There were two or three questions that I neglected to ask you. 
Did you authorize Mr. Clarke to sign your name to any vouchers ? — A. 
I did not, sir. 

Q. How long after the date of the vouchers was it before you knew 
they had been put in ? — A. It was, I think, some two or three years. 

Q. How did you then find it out?— A. I found it out through Captain 
Eamsay. 

Q. Explain it. — A. He had been to Washington to look through 
some of his own papers, and when he came back he asked me how much 
money I had ever received while I was in the service. I told him $65, 
He said there are vouchers in there of mine for some $1,200. I told him 
that I did not remember of signing but two, and if more than two in 
there, they were forgeries, I thought. I never knew anything about it 
until he told me. I then sent on and got a certified copy of the vouchers. 

Q. Have you that certified copy ? — A. I have not, sir. 

Q. Can you remember whether that certified copy included both the' 
original and amended vouchers filed here? — A. It did not include any 
amended ; only for the amount that was in on my pay account. 

Q. Did you ever have any talk with Dr. Mott about that ? — A. I did 
not, sir. 

Mr. Pool. About what ? 

The Chairman. About these vouchers that were put in. State what 
he did say to you if you can remember. — A. Dr. Mott came to see me 
once or twice, twice I think, sir, and in the conversation he said that 
Clarke had done this, his clerk, thinking I was in the service, and so 
on. 

Q. Did he say whether he got any money on these vouchers? — A. 
He did get the money. 

Q. On the vouchers ? — A. Yes, sir ; I asked him then, who got the 
money ; that he might as well have paid it to me as anybody else — a 
one-armed man. I remember one name very distinctly, he told me, who 
got some of the money, a man by the name of Millen Walker. 

Q. Do you know whether he said who got the balance of it ? — A. I 
don't remember whether he did or did not, now. I remember that very 
distinctly. He went on to say that it was frequently the case to draw 
money over one man's account and to pay it to another. It was a mat- 
ter I know nothing about j I knew nothing about the service. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. I understood you to say, in your examination the other day, that 
you signed Exhibit 9 ? — A. Yes, sir ; in blank. 

Q. It was in blank when you signed that ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was it you said they told you at the time you signed that? — 
A. The voucher ? 

Q. Yes. — A. They told me the one I had signed had been lost, mis- 



74 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

laid, or something of that kind. My recollection is, there was one came 
by mail, and that I signed it and mailed it. 

Q. You think that is this one ? — A. I could not say, because they were 
blanks. 

Q. Did you ever sign more than two blanks 1 — A. Never that I rec- 
ollect. 

Q. The other one that you say you signed was for the $65, as you have 
sworn here 1 — A. You will see, if you will allow me to explain, that for 
these vouchers I got the money long before ever signing them. The 
money was paid to me, and afterwards these vouchers were sent to me 
to sign. I supposed I was signing them for the pay I got. Thej were 
in blank. 

Q. Did you ever sign more than two yourself in blank 1 — A. I don't 
think that I did, sir. 

Q. Did you send them both by mail ? — A. ]^o, sir. 

Q. Which one did you send by mail? — A. I cannot tell. 

Q. But you signed two. To whom did you give the one you did not 
send by mail *? — A. I think Captain Eamsay brought me one. 

Q. That is the gentleman — the witness here the other day? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. The other came by mail? — A. I think it did, to the best of my 
recollection now. 

Q. Did they tell you with reference to both of them that it was sim- 
ply for your pay ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Eamsay told you that ? — A. I think so, sir. 

Q. And did Mr. Eamsay tell you about the one you sent by mail, that 
it was for your pay ? — A. That it was mislaid ? 

Q. No, for your pay ? — A. No, sir ; the one I gave was lost, or was 
misplaced, and wanted me to send another. 

Q. Who told you that ? — A. I think Captain Eamsay told me, and 
Mr. Clarke told me. I know Clarke came to see me once or twice about 
it, and we had a conversation. 

Q. No one else told you "? — A. No one that I remember. 

Q. Dr. Mott did not tell you ? — A. Not that I remember. 

Q. One of them was sent to you by mail? — A. 1 think so, to the best 
of my recollection. 

Q. Did Mr. Eamsay write a letter in sending it ? — A. From States- 
ville ? 

Q. Yes. — A. I don't remember now ; could not swear positively. 

Q. Mr. Eamsay or Mr. Clarke sent it to you? — A. That sent from 
Statesville ? 

Q. Yes. — A. I don't remember now who it was. 

Q. Have you got the letter that inclosed it ? — A. No, sir, I have not. 

Q. You did not preserve it, and don't remember the contents of it ? — 
A. Just " Inclosed you will find blank," or something of that kind, ''for 
your pay. Please sign and return same." Something to that effect. 

Q. You don't think there was any statement in the letter that it was 
to take the place of the one that was lost ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. These statements came to you through personal conversation with 
the two gentlemen, Mr. Eamsay and Mr. Clarke? — A. Yes, sirj who 
were at the time in the service. 

Q. And with no one else ? — A. I think not, as I remember now. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 
Q. Did you know that Dr. Mott was allowed but three deputies ? — 
A. I did not. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 75 

Q. Yon don't know bow many lie was allowed ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You have had it oxi)hnued to you by Mr. Clarke that he thought 
you were then one of the deputies ? — A. Mr. Clarke never said that to 
me. Dr. Mott said that Clarke thought I was in the service when he 
made out these pay-rolls. 

Q. And that it was a mistake of Clarke's '? — A. I don't know that 
there was anything said about a mistake. I know of asking him about 
the luoney ; who got the money, or something of that kind. 

Q. Do you pretend to say that there was any money drawn on any of 
these vouchers except the $65 ? — A. I only know what Mott told me. 
I asked him who got this money. He said Walker got it. 

Q. Was he not one of the deputies ! — A. He was a deputy at that 
time, or had been. 

Q. Did not Dr. Mott tell you on that occasion this : that I was al- 
lowed for three deputies and got the money for three, and that you were 
not one of them, and I paid it to those who were deputies f — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. And you understood him to say that he got the mouey on these 
vouchers of yours? — A. I asked him the question, who got this mouey? 
His reply to me was, Milieu Walker got some of it. 

Q. Which money ? — A. This money drawn over the vouchers in my 
name at the department. 

Q. Su])pose it appear in the departments that your vouchers were 
disallowed, and no money drawn on them except the $65 ? — A. I don't 
know^ about that. I can answer the money was drawn, only from what 
Mott told me. 

Q. Is it not possible you misunderstood Dr. Mott ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. He said he drew the money on your vouchers? — A. Y"es, sir. I 
know he reiterated it; I remember distinctly, that Walker got the 
money. 

Q. Which money? — A. This money drawn on my vouchers, because 
in the conversation we got talking about it, and my impression was 
that 1 was in the service a month, and it was my understanding that I 
was to have $80 for it. AVhen I went to Statesville I admit that I was 
very poor, and needed everything I could get. I had no money; had 
been unfortunate and lost all I had, and did not know where to go to 
board; and my recollection is, Dr. jMott told me to go down and stoj) 
with a man named Price, who kept the hotel. I staid there about a 
week or ten days; my board bill was some tifteen or twenty dollars. 
I was called home on account of the death of a child. I went to Dr. 
Mott and asked him for some money; I told him I had none, and he 
gave me a check on the bank there for fifteen dollars. I drew the 
money and went home, and when I only received the $05, I took it for 
granted that he had paid my hotel bill, and that accounted for tlie bal- 
ance, and I knew no better for some time, until Price came down and 
l^resented me that board bill. I told him I was under the impression 
that Dr. Mott had settled it, as I did not get as uuich pay as I thought 
I ought to have. He saw Dr. Mott, and he told me afterwards that Dr. 
Mott said he had nothing to do with my board bill, and afterwards I 
paid it myself. That was brought up, I recollect. Dr. Mott said he 
was only allowed for two-thirds of a month. 

Q. Y^ou were only allowed by the department here for two-thirds of a 
month? — A. He did not saj^ about the department that I recollect. 

Q. What was the reason of Dr. Mott going to see you about this 
thing? — A. I don't know. He came to see me as much as twice. One 
time he had a paper and wanted me to sign it, exonerating him from 



76 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

this matter. I told him I could not do it, for I had nothing to do 
with it. 

Q. That was in '72 or '73^ — A. Yes, sir. It was a business to me thai 
I knew nothing about. 

Q. Did he explain to you the mistake made by his clerk? — A. He 
told me that Clarke had done it, thinking I was in the service. 

Q. And that he made a mistake ? — A. I don't recollect about a mis- 
take. 

Q. Tou knew it was a mistake because you were not in the service 1 — 
A.. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you claim any of this money that was paid ? — A. I did not. 

Q. You had done no service ? — A. ^None at all. '^ 

Q. You were in the service at the time you received the |65, how-' 
ever?— A. Yes, sir; $50 by post-ofdce order, and $15 when I went to 
leave there. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with the district ?— A. No, sir ; I can't 
say I am. 

Q. Within the last two or three years, has there been a very great 
improvement in the mode of collecting internal revenue in that dis- 
trict; is there a better state of feeling among the people in regard toi 
it ? — A. I don't think I am expert enough to answer that. 

Q. Was there not a great deal of '^blockading," and illicit distilling 
some three or four years ago ? — A. I don't know, sir ; I have been in the 
whiskey business all my life. If there has been, I didn't know it. 

Q. Yon don't know anything of that sort three or four years ago 1 — | 
A. Yes, I can say I have heard of such things; don't know them of my 
own knowledge. 

Q. Was it generally talked that there was a great deal of it ? — A. 
Four or five years ago ? 

Q. Three or four years ago. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is there less of it now ? — A. I think there is. 

Q. Then there has been an improvement ; is that improvement very 
decided and very marked ?— A. I could not say as to that. The county 
I live in. Rowan, there is not more than one distillery in the county, and 
the most of these distilleries are in the mountain counties, a consider- 
able distance from where I live. 

Q. Do you know of United States marshals, and proceedings in 
United States courts, and commissioners, and the people saying four 
or five years ago, or three or four years ago, that they were greatly op- 
pressed, and talking of the outrages committed by officers — allegations 
of that sort ? — A. I have heard instances of that kind. 

Q. Did you hear it generally talked of in that way, and a good deal 
of rumor and stir about it"? — A. I did not, in my own town. 

Q. Or anywhere within the range of your acquaintance in that 
locality ! — A. I could not say that it was generally talked, not in my 
town. I have heard it. 

Q. Has there been less of it in the last two or three years ? — A. I 
think there has. 

Q. Very decidedly less ?— A. I heard very little said about " blockad- 
ing," or news of that kind. 

Q. There has been improvement in both of these respects?— A. I 
think so. 

Q. To what do you attribute that improvement ? — A. I will tell you 
what I think, and give you my idea about it. I notice a great many 
Democrats appointed in that district. I noticed a good many squibs 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 77 

ill the papers pitcliiug- iuto the collector of the district, and noticed 
some ai^pointmeuts made afterwards, and it all stopped. 

Q. Some appointments of Democrats! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That generally stopped it? — A. I noticed the Charlotte Observer 
never came out that it did not have something to say about that collec- 
tion district; and I know a paper in my town, after some appointments, 
stopped the same thing. 

Q. Appointments of Democrats? 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You mean newspaper squibs and complaints were stopped after 
the Democrats were appointed? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Do you think the improvement resulted from the appointment of 
Democrats to the minor offices ? — A. I think so ; it had a good deal to 
do with it. 

Q. There became less "blockade" running? — A. I didn't know about 
blockading, I have not been engaged in it. 

Q. Do you know of any official impropriety, of any character what- 
ever, on the part of Dr. Mott ? — A. I^^one in the world ,• none of my own 
knowledge. 

Q. Can you name any one man in that district that ever brought a 
charge of official impropriety against him of his own knowledge? — A. I 
can't, sir, 

Q. Then there is nothing of that sort against him of your own knowl- 
edge, nor can you recollect any individual that you have ever heard 
bring such a charge against him, of his own knowledge ; is that your 
answer ? — A. Allow me to refresh my memory. I can't remember now. 
I have heard something said about him, but who 

Q. You heard some rumors floating around ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. These rumors were a little more rife in election times?— A. No, 
sir ; I don't know that they were. 

Q. These rumors became very much less when he appointed Demo- 
crats to office ? — A. I think they did. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. When you say that you know of no official impropriety on the 
part of Dr. Mott, and never heard of any, do you consider the way in 
which these vouchers were put in, and the money drawn on them, a 
proper act ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Did you ever hear of his levying political assessments on his offi- 
cers? — A. I have, sir. 

Q. Do you know that is forbidden by law ? — A. I have heard so, sir. 
One man told me he took a month of his pay for political assessments. 
An officer told me that out of his own mouth. 

Q. Who was that? — A. Allen Eamsay, a storekeeper, a cousin of 
John A.'s, I think. 

Q. You say that the complaints and the charges about the revenue 
department became less about the time that the collector made a num- 
ber of Democratic appointments ? — A. Y'es, sir ; one, two, or three that 
I know of. 

Q. Have you also heard that under the new system of the dividing of 
stills, making three or four out of one, putting a storekeeper to each 
one, and the storekeeper dividing his pay with the distiller, that it may 
be better for them to run according to law than to blockade? — A. Yes, 
sir. 



78 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. You heard that rumored as one reason the complaints ceased ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. You have been in the liquor business "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What has been the price of new whiskey from the stills down 
there? — A. Two years ago I left Salisbury, and have been gone about 
two years. I paid for the whiskey I wanted, tax paid and stamped, from 
$1.25 to $1.30 a gallon, and as low down as $1.20. 

Q. If you know anything of the cost of distilling, there is not much 
money in that? — A. They say not; all I know. 

Q. So, if the storekeeper divides with his distiller, it was cheaper to 
run that way than to blockade ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Is not that about the common impression or rumor in the commu- 
nity? — A. I know nothing of my own knowledge at all; I have heard 
these things discussed. 

Q. Colonel Pool asked you if you did not know that the department 
disallowed your account, and that Dr. Mott was only allowed three 
deputies. Do you know anything about that ? — A. I don't. 

Q. Do you know the fact that there was a certain allowance made 
for the purpose of paying the expenses of running the district, and that 
that allowance the collector could distribute to whom he pleased ; did 
you know that ? — A. I could not ans\^er that. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Do you know any storekeeper who divided with a distiller ? — A. I 
do not. 

Q. Did you ever hear a storekeeper say he had divided with a dis- 
tiller ? — A,' I never heard a storekeeper say so. 

Q. Did you ever hear a distiller say that he had a storekeeper to divide 
with him ?— A. 'No, sir. 

Q. What do you know about the storekeepers dividing with the dis- 
tillers ? — A. Only from what I have heard there — outside rumors. 

Q. Which rumors became less often, since they appointed Democrats 
to office? — A. Yes, sir. 

J. A. Ramsay recalled and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. I recall you for the purpose of asking you if at any time 
you applied for a copy of these vouchers which we have on exhibit now, 
to be used in your suit against Dr. Mott? — Answer. Yes, sir; I did at 
one time make application for them. 

Q. To whom ? — A. My recollection is that the application was sent to 
a clerk of the department in Washington, whom I was acquainted with^ 
to be laid before the proper officer. I sent it to Mr. Raeder. 

Q. Did you get those copies ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where are they ? — A. They were filed in the case. 

Q. Do you know where they are now ? — A. There, on this transcript 
of the record (indicating referee's report), the clerk states they were 
taken out by Dr. Mott. 

Q. When ?— A. On the 10th of June. 

Q. So that they were not in your possession, and- not in the possession 
of the court, according to that statement. — A. According to the clerk's 
statement. 

Mr. Pool. I had the papers here the other day for use before the 
committee. 

Mr. Mott. They are at the hotel now ; I will go and get them if 

anted. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 19 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Wheu did you get these exeuiplificatious from the ofiftce — what 
date? — A. I can't say now — '70 or '77. I did not charge my memory 
especially with it. 

Q. Did these copies that you obtained contain these amended vouch- 
ers that were filed by Dr. Mott? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You asked for all the record on that subject, I suppose ? — A. Yes^ 
sir. I asked for certified copy of Form 93, together with the vouchers 
that I specified, covering postage-stamps and several other things that 
I had furnished. 

Q. You called for it all, and only got the original voucher as produced 
here? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And did not get the " amended"? — A. There was a dispute in re- 
gard to the postage account, and I sent for certified copies of the post- 
age account, in order to settle that question. I had paid for all the 
postage vouchers that were signed by D. L. Bringle. 

I desire to make a correction in my testimony of the other day. I 
said in answer to a question that I did not claim the $50 for the month 
of April, '73; it should be April, '72, instead of '73. The voucher on 
which the question was asked me is not the voucher referred to. April 
'73 is right and is claimed. 

Adjourned until Thursday, June 22, 10 a. m. 



Washington, D. C, Thursday, June 22, 1882, 

The committee met at 10 a. m. 

Mr. Pool (handing to chairman). Here are the pai)ers from the 
records of the court at Salisbury, spoken of by Mr. Eamsay in his tes- 
timony yesterday. 

The Chairman. I can't examine them just now. 

Mr. Pool. I suj)pose they ought to be returned to the records. 

The Chairman. I asked for copies ; the clerk misunderstood it. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Gillespie got these. He was asked to go over and 
get copies, and it seems he brought these. 

W. H. Bailey sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where is your residence ? — Answer. Charlotte, N. C. 

Q. What is your profession I — A. An attornej^ at law. 

Q. Are you acquainted with William H. Kestler? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you known him? — A. I have known Kestler about 
fourteen or fifteen years, I think, sir. 

Q. Are you acquainted with his general character'? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is it for truth? — A. Good. 

Q. Are you acquainted, also, with the general character of John A. 
Eamsay? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is it? — A. Very good. I have known Mr. Eamsay longer, 
since '63 — nearly twenty years. 

Q. As an attorney, did you defend some parties about 1874, on an in- 
dictment for some fraud against the government? — A. Yes, sir; I de- 
fended — you mean some ofticers? 

Q. Yes. — A. I defended Mr. Eufif. Henderson, and some others. 1 



80 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

defended Mm, I know, and my impression is, 1 defended some of the 
others at the same time with Henderson. 

Q. Do you recollect who, and at the same time what was charged? — 
A. I think Wm. S. Pearson, and a young man named Moore — his given 
name I don't recollect — and Mck Lillington. These four were indicted, 
my recollection is, for false vouchers as gangers. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Clarke was also indicted? — A. Clarke 
was indicted also, but not for that. I don't remember exactly what the 
specific charge was against Clarke. He was clerk in the office of Dr. 
Mott, and it involved the idea that he was knowing of these things. I 
don't remember the exact charge, or the manner in which it had been 
put in. I defended or appeared for Mr. Clarke. 

Q. I do not want to ask you to disclose anything that you know as 
his counsel. You remember how the case went in, and what was done 
with it? — A. My recollection now is that they submitted what we com- 
monly call a '' submission," probably a formal entry of a plea of guilty, 
and I think judgment was suspended, and don't think anything else 
was done with them. 

Q. That is your recollection? — A. Yes, sir; it never went to a jury. 

Q. What is your recollection as to the way Mr. Clarke's case {;ermi- 
nated ? — A. In the same way. It is a good while ago, and I have no data 
to refresh my memory. I appeared in part for Mr. Clarke. We had 
some other attorneys. Mr. McCorkle was one of them. It was a case 
we had to beg off, out of the district attorney. 

Q. Who was the district attorney? — A. Mr. Lusk. He was a very 
kind-hearted man. These were young men that were charged, and we 
of course used all the iniiuence we could with him, also the argument of 
its being their first offense. 

Q. All I wanted to do was to negative the idea that the case was nol- 
prossed and the parties acquitted? — A. If there were any nol-prossed, it 
is contrary to my recollection. My impression is otherwise. If nol- 
prossed, it was with the same idea of clemency, I am satisfied. 

Q. At all events they were not acquitted on the merits of the case? — 
A. ISTot acquitted ; it never went to a jury. 

By Senator McDill : ^ 

Q. Do you remember the time ? — A. Fo, sir ; I cannot remember ex- 
actly. I, at that time, had considerable jDractice in the court at States - 
ville ; afterwards the court at Charlotte was established, and you know 
how it is with these sort of cases going out of a man's mind. 

Q. It was some six or seven years ago ? — A. IsTearly that long, maybe 
a little later. I had the imiDression that I moved to Charlotte about 
that time, 1875. 

Q. You don't remember the date of the alleged offense ; of course it 
was earlier than that? — A. Earlier than that. I know these indictments 
took place after Mr. Crane came there. 

Q. The secret agent ? — A. The detective or special agent. 

Q. I believe those vouchers were in 1872, and he made some report 
of them ? — A. I don't remember now the date of the vouchers. After Mr. 
Crane came these indictments were gotten up. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 
Q. Will you try to refresh your memory a little by stating wfeat was 
charged against Mr. Clarke ? — A. Mr. Clarke, according to my recollec- 
tion, was charged with helping to fill them out, or something of that 
kind, and probably that he swore to these things when he knew they j 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 81 

were wrong" and incorrect; I tbink his allegation was, be had not sworn 
to them. One of the grounds we got him off on and we had was, that 
he never actually administered the oath. 

Q. The complaint was aiding and abetting all these other men in fill- 
ing up their vouchers? — A. Yes, sir; he knew it was wrong. 

Q. You say these other parties were j^oung men? — A. Yes, sir; quite 
young men. I should not suppose any of tliem at that time exceeded 
twenty-five years of age. 

Q. Was it not the allegation that they came in with their memoranda 
to Mr. Clarke, and upon their memoranda he made out these vouchers 
or form for them "1 — A. I am not clear, but think that was the allega- 
tion. 

Q. That they had to go throngh a certain form of account, and Clarke 
fixed it up for them? — A. Yes, sir. I think that was so; they would 
give in the luimber of days to Mr. Clarke, and he would fill them up. 

Q. Clarke knew what the proper form for the department was, and 
these young men knew not in what form to put them ? — A. Of course 1 
could not say about that; I knew he was familiar and apt in filling up 
these things; had done a great deal of it — did it all. I think the idea 
I had — how I got it I can't tell to save my life — the impression, was that 
Clarke knew it was wrong. 

Q. The charge was to that effect? — A. Y"es, sir. I can't say how that 
impression got in my mind, because I was trying to shield Clarke, and 
these others at the same time. 

Q. The result of the indictments was that they were nol-prossed, or 
verdict by consent, and suspension of judgment f — A. I don't know 
about the verdict; probably a plea of guilty. 

Q. Or submission?— A, What we commonl}^ term '^submission" — a 
formal plea of guilty. 

Q. Do you think Clarke submitted — was that the case with Mr. Clarke ? — 
A. My recollection is not distinct; I know in some way we got him oft". 

Q. Do you not recollect that Clarke pressed, urged, and insisted upon 
a trial to such an extent that the district attorney entered a nolle pro f;. 
in his case '? — A. I was not there at the term the matter was settled. 
I remember Clarke was anxious to press the trial. I knew Clarke 
claimed to be innocent, and wauted to press the trial. I think I was 
not there when the thing was finally settled — the very day. My recol- 
lection is not distinct. I do not pretend to say it was not so. 

i},. By urging the trial Clarke pressed the district attorney into a nolle 
pros.? — A. I can't say distinctly about that; I can't say it was not so; 
I think Clarke had several counsel in the matter. 

The Chairman. I want to put in some vouchers here as evidence in 
relation to the pay and services of James H. Harris, special deputy col- 
lector. (Marked Exhibit 19.) 

Here is a number of these vouchers that I want to put in evidence, 
but to prevent encumbering the record with the usual formal and 
printed parts, one of them inserted in full, it seems to me, would be 
sufiElcient, and mention the others as similar vouchers, but referring to 
them by their dates, and copying all itemized accounts. 

Senator McDill. You said that any of these special reports I 
w anted to put in we could do so. Will you let Mr. Pool examine these 
agents' reports ? 

The Chairjvian. I called for all the reports of special agents that 

were sent down to investigate that district within a certain period. I 

selected just such as would be of service to the part of the investigation 

I am conducting, and have put them in evidence, with the privilege to 

S. Mis. 116 6 



82 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



Senators McDill and Mitcliell to examine and put in evidence any of 
the others which they thought should go in, in justice to the other side. 
I have here the compensation vouchers of General-Storekeeper E. B. 
Drake, beginning in January, 1876, and running to date for every month, 
and every working day in the month during that period, and I propose 
just to file one, and let it be copied in full, and then state that the 
others for that period are just like it, except that the accounts vary in 
amount, etc. 

Senator McDill. I see no objection to that. 

(Marked Exhibit 20.) 

Exhibit 19. 

(Form 63i.— Revised Sept. 10, 1877.) 

U. S. Internal Revenue. 

(Prescribed for use May 14, 1874.) 

DEPUTY collector's OR COLLECTOR'S CLERK'S MONTHLY ACCOUNT FOR SERVICES. 

(Original to accompany form 44 rendered to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue 
monthly. Duplicate to be filed in office of collector. Every blank on this page nec- 
essary to make the bill complete, except those in the jurat, must be filled out in ink 
before the bill is signed and sworn to by the deputy collector or clerk.) 

James H. Harris. 

Collector of internal revenue Gth district of N. C, to James U. Harris, dr. 

For services rendered and expenses incurred as (a) special D. C. of the 6th district 
of N. C. daring the period commencing Sept. 1st, 1880, and ending Sept. 30th, 1880, 
inclusive : 

Net salary 1 month at the rate of $125 per mo $125 

Expenses (c) month at the rate of $ per annum 

Total 125 

The services were performed as (6) special deputy collr., 6th N. C. dist. 
Received payment. 

JAMES H. HARRIS, 

S. D. C. 



^^ This table must be filled out in all cases. If no travelling was done, or expenses 
for travelling incurred, it should be so stated. 



Days of month, Sept'r. . 


1 


2 


3 


4 


5 


6 

1 


7 

1 


8 

1 


9 
1 


10 
1 


11 

1 


12 


13 

1 


14 
1 


15 
1 


16 
1 


17 
1 


18 
1 


19 


20 
1 


21 
1 


22 
1 


23 
1 


24 

1 


25 
1 


26 


27 

1 


28 

1 


29 



1 


30 

1 


31 

1 


o 
H 


Days employe d in 
month of Sept., 1880. 

Miles travelled (see note 
c below) . . dolls, cts.* . 

Amount expended each 
day (see note c he- 
low) dolls, cts.* .- 


1 


1 


1 


1 


27 



" None allowed. 



I, James H. Harris (c), special D. C. for J. J. Mott, collector of the 6th district of 
N. C, do solemnly swear that I have faithfully rendered the services as above charged ; 
that such services were, in my opinion, proper and necessary; that the rate of com- 
pensation therein stated is the same as agreed upon with the collector, and is just and 
reasonable; that I have not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, deposit, 
or assign, any part of such compensation to the use of the collector or any other 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 83 

person, in any way, directly or indirectly, or paid or given, or contracted to pay or 
give, any reward or compensation for my office or employment, or the emolumentt 
thereof; and that the above statement of days employed, miles travelled, and amouus 
expended each day, is in all respects trne and in exact accordance with the facts. 

(On the margin :) Revised Statutes, ^ 2093. 

I further swear that during the above period neither I nor any member of my fam- 
ily has received, either personallj' or by the intervention of another party, any money 
or compensation of any description whatever, nor any pi-omises for the same, either 
directly or indirectly, for services rendered, or to be rendered, or acts performed, or to 
be performed, in connection with the internal revenue ; nor pnrchased for like services 
or acts from any manufacturer, consignee, agent, or custom-house broker, or other 
person whatsoever, any goods, wares, or merchandise at less tha^n regular retail mar- 
ket price therefor : So help me God. 

JAMES H. HARRIS, 

S. D. C. 

Subscribed and sworn before me this Ist day of Oct., 1880. 



(On the margin:) Revised Statutes, ^^ 1790. 



P. S. ROSE, 

Dep. Colli: 



(a.) State whether deputy collector or collector's clerK:. 

(b.) State the particular locality or localities at which the services were performed. 

(c. ) Miles travelled, or expenses incurred, in making surveys of distilleries or in at- 
tendance upon court, for which the deputy or clerk has been specially reimbursed, 
should not be included in the "miles travelled "or "amount expended" reported on this 
blank. Payments on account of expenses should not be in excess of the jyro rata or of 
the amount actually expended for the period commencing with the fiscal year. 

INTERROGATORIES. 

The collector must neither pay the deputy collector or clerk, nor approve his bill 
on this form, until after the deputy or clerk has written under each question asked 
below his answer thereto, and has also sworn to the same : 

1. What is your post-oihce address, town and county ? 
Statesville, N. C, Iredell Co. 

2. Are you engaged iu other business ; if so, in what business and how much of 
your time is thus employed ? 

In no other. 

3. Are you in any way interested in the manufacture or sale of distilled spirits, fer- 
mented liquors, or tobacco ? 

In no way. 

4. Is your alphabetical list of special tax-payers written up to the close of the 
month for which this bill is rendered ? 

I make no lists. 

5. Have you accounted to the collector of your district for your entire collections in 
the month for which this bill is rendered ? 

I render no collections. 

6. Have you rendered to the collector all the reports required by law or regula- 
tions ? 

I have rendered all reports required of me. 

7. Do your reports to the collector (on Form 102) of stamps sold each month also 
show the exact balance by denominations on hand at close of each month ? 

I make no. 102's. 

8. Do you make a careful examination of the books of brewers aud rectifiers when 
you receive their returns ? 

None. 

9. Have you (as required by regulations) visited each brewery, distillery, tobacco 
or cigar manufactory in your district within the present month to ascertain whether 
the law and regulations are, in each case, strictly complied with In all respects, in- 
cluding the mode of keeping the books? If not all, state how many, and the reason 
the others were omitted. 

I have no division. 

10. Do you verify by actual inspection the stock on hand, reported on Form 18, 
and the claims for loss or wastage made on said form ? 

11. How many distilleries in your division ? 

12. How many breweries in your division ? 

13. How many tobacco or cigar manufactories in your division ? 

14. Do you know of any internal-revenue taxes liable to assessment in your divis- 
ion which have not been assessed ? 

15. If so, why have they not been reported for assessment ? 



84 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 



I, James H. Harris,* S. dep. collr. in tlieGtli district of N. C, hereby solemnly sweaF 
that the statement of work on the following page, and the answers made by me to the 
above interrogatories, are in all respects correct and true. 

JAMES H. HARRIS, 

S. D. C. 
Subscribed and sworn before me this 1st day of Oct., 1880. 

P. L. ROSE, 

Dep. Col. 

I have personally read each of the above answers, and believe them to be in all re- 
spects correct and true. The collections in this division during the month for which 

this bill is rendered amounted to | . 

J. J. MOTT, 

Collector. 

Itemised statement of duty performed, miles travelled, and expenses incurred. 

[This pajje shonld be a diary of the official transactions of tlie deputy or cleik for each working day 
in tlie montl). Tliere slioirld'be an entry for each day of a brief and concise statement of the duties- 
perfonned, and tlie manner in which the time was employed during that day, showing the places vis- 
ited, miles travelled, and specific expenses incurred, in the proper columns. When travelling, the place 
from which he started and tlie places visited should be stated by the deputy, and he should, in such 
cases, lieop a pocket-diary in which to enter daily the details required in this monthly report. ] 



Date. 



Duties performed and places visited. 



At Salisbury 1 

" " [Policing 

I 
" J 
Went to G-okl Hill and remained there .. 
Remained at Gold Hill . . 

From Gold Hill to Oakland 

liemained at " 

From Oakland to Concord 

Kemained at " 

From Concord to Olin, N. C 

" Olin to Bethany 

' ' Bethany to Troutman's 

" Troutman's to Amity Hill 

" Amity Hill to Hart's Church - 

" Hart's Church to Wallace's Store 

" Wallace's Store to Jno, Mayhow's 

" Mayhew's to Mathis' Grove 

" Mathis' Grove to Denver 

' ' Denver to Le wisville 

To Lincolufon 

From Lincolnton to Kewton 

" Newton to Hickory 



Expenses. 



Total. 



Dulls, cts. 



No mileage nor expen.sea allowed. 

Service performed as special deputy collector in the discharge of official duties in exposing and de- 
tecting frauds on int. rev. laws U. S. 

A similar voucher to former, witli following variations: "Deputy col- 
lector or deputy collectors' clerlis" monthly account for services" for "the 
period commencing Nov. loth, 1880, and ending Nov. 30th, 1880, inclu- 
sive," "^ month," "$62.50," with receipt and affidavit signed "J. H. 
Harris"; answers to "interrogatories" similar, with the following excep- 
tions : 

2. "In no way." 

3, "I make none." 



■ Deputy collector or clerk, as the case may be. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



85 



4. "I render noue." 

5. Blauk. 
€. " 

7. "I have no district." 

8. "I make no inspections." 
0. Blank. 

11. "1 have no division." 

Affidavit to above signed "J. H. Harris." 

Itemized siafemenf of duty performed, milea travelled, and exjyenses incurred. 



Date. 


Duties pt'i'foruied ami jilacL-s visited. 


s 

1 


Expenses. 


Total. 


'5 

r 


El 


a a 

Z'bH 

|5 


Dolls. 


Cts. 


1880. 
Xov. 15 
10 
17 


At Cliarlotte 


1 




12 


4 


00 










il .: 1 [ 






18 
19 


tl 11 


1 1 1 






22 1 00 




15 5 


no 


20 










21 












22 
23 
24 


U 1, 










u a 







i 






22 


1 00 




15 


5 


00 


25 
^6 






.. 11 














27 


l: 11 














28 
29 


11 11 
















89 
92 


3 56 




6 


2 




30 






on 
















22.5 






48 1 Ifi 


00 















A similar vouclier to last. 

I)(l)aty collector's or collectors' clerks' monthly acconnt " for services" 
■with following variations for the period commencing December 1st, 
1880. and ending 31st, 1880, inclnsive," "1 month," $125.00. 

In table " no mileage allowed." " i^o expenses allowed." 

Answers to 'interrogatories," &c., similar, except from "2" to "15," 
inclusive, written across, as follows: "I am a special deputy collector, 
sixth district of N. C." 



Itemized statement of duly performed, miles travelled, and expenses incurred. 





Duties performed and places visited. 




Expenses. 


Total. 


Date. 
1880. 


'6 
1 


% 

o 


o 

i 
>> 

i3 


n 

6 

a 
a 


"3 

R 


o 


Dec. 1 
2 


Policing f lom Statesville to C harlotte, N. C 


47 


2 00 




1 00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 






3 












4 


11 11 










5 


11 It 




j 


1.00 

1.00 




6 


11 >i 








7 


u .. 







1. 00 : 9 00 



86 COLLECTlOI^r OF INTP]RNAL REVENUE IN 

Itemized statement of duty performed, miles travelled, and expenses incurrtd — Continued.. 





Duties performed and places visited. 


> 

1 

m 
o 

1 


Expenses. 


Total. 


Date. 
1880. 


6 
.a 

p 


a 

03 

1 


fcb 
g 
'Sb 
-a 
_o 

q 


P 





8 
9 


Left Charlotte for Statesville, policino; the line be- 
tween Charlotte & Statesville, N. C 


47 


2.00 




1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 
1.00 

i.oo 

1.00 
1.00 


3 

2 


00 
00 


10 










00 


11 




72 


2.90 




90 


12 




00 


13 










00 


14 


U U II II 








00 


15 


U 11 11 II 








00 


16 




15 


60 




60 


17 




00 


18 










00 


19 


11 11 11 




1 


00 


''O 




11 


45 


45 


21 








00 


2'' 




21 


85 




85 


23 




00 


24 










00 


25 




44 


1.75 




75 


26 




00 


27 










00 


?8 
29 


11 11 II 








00 


11 11 11 








00 


30 


II 11 11 








00 


31 




25 


1.00 




00 










2.82 11.55 




31.00 


42 


55. 



A similar vouclier to last. 

" Deputy collector, or collectors' clerks' montMy account for services,'' 
witli following variations : for " the period commencing January 1, 1881, 
and ending Jan'y 31, 1881, inclusive"; '' amount expended each day" in 
table, "averaged at $1.00 per day, $31.00"; "miles travelled" in table, 
carried out " 282." 

No "interrogatories" attached. 

Ko "itemized statement of duty performed, miles travelled, and ex- 
penses incurred " accompanying. 

A similar voucher to last. 

" Deputy collectors' or collectors' clerks' monthly account for serv- 
ices," with following variations : For " the period commencing Feb'y Ist,^ 
1881, and ending Feb'y 28, 1881, inclusive." 
- In table, "no mileage allowed"; "no expenses allowed." 

Answers to "interrogatories" similar to last, except — 

" 2." " In no other business." 

"3." "In no way." 

"4-15." Written across : " I am employed as special deputy collector 
in 6th dist. N. 0. in detecting & suppressing frauds in int. revenue of 
the U. S." 



THE SIXTH DLSTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 87 

Itemhed statement of duty performed, miles travelled, and expenses incurred. 



Date. 



Duties ])«! fonned anil places visited. 



1881. 
Fcby, 



28 



At Statesville 

Pt>licins from Statesville to Charlotte, N. C 

Keiiiaiued in &. around Charlotte in discharge of ofiScial 
duty _- 

Absent in ohedieuce to summons to att'^nd superior 
conrt as State's witness 

Returned to Salisbury 

More discoveries as reported to headquarters 

Policing from Salisbury to Statesville 

Policing from Statesville to Charlotte 

Remained in & around Charlotte in discharge of otticial 
duty 



Expenses. 



3 M 

=* a 



Total. 



EXIIIKIT "20. 

(107— Revised.) 

stohekeepeh's monthly account. 

(Original.) 

The United States {Office of Internal nevenne) dr. to E. B. Drale. 

P. 0. address: 

Dols. Cts. 
For ser-N ices as storekeeper in the 6tli collection district of tlie State of N. C. 

during the month of January, 1876, 26 days, at |5 per day 130 00 

STATEMENT. 

(This .statement must indicate the date of each day of service.) 



Days of month. 1 


2 


3 


4 


5 


6 


7 


.1 


10 


11 


12 


1314 


15 


1617 


18 19 20 


21 


22 23 


24 25 26 27,28 29 30 31 


d 
















1 
















































Days and parts of 
days employed 1 


s 


1 


' 


1 


1 


1 


1 
1 S 


1 


1 


' 


1 


1 


1 


s 


1 


1 


^ 


1 


1 


1 


S 


1 


1 


1 


1 


1 


1 


S 


1 





Salary, one hundred and thirty dollars. 

I hereby certify and make oath that the above account is for services in my official 
capacity as storekeeper, under the internal revenue law of the United States ; that 



Ob COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

the services liave been actually rendered as charged ; and that the account is in all 
respects just and correct; that I have received the full sum therein charged to my 
own use and heneiit, and that I have not paid; deposited, or assigned, nor contracted 
to pay, dexiosit, or assign, any part of such compensation, to the use of any other per- 
son, nor in any way, directly or indirectly, paid or given, nor contracted to pay or 
give, any reward or compensation for my office or employment, or the emoluments 
thereof. 

I farther swear that, during the above period, neither I nor any member of my fam- 
ily has received, either personally or by the intervention of another party, any money 
or compensation of any description whatever, nor any promises for the same, either 
directly or indirectly, for services rendered or to be rendered, or acts performed or to 
be perforn ed, in connection with the internal revenue ; uorpurchased for like services 
or acts, from any manufacturer, consignee, agent, or custom-house broker, or other 
person whomsoever, any goods, wares, or merchandise, at less than regular retail 
market prices therefor : So help me, God. 

(On the margin :) Revised Stats., ^ 1790. 

Dated at Statesville, this 2 day of Feb'y, 1876. 

E. B. DRAKE, 

Storekeeper. 

Subscribed and sworn to before me. 

WM. J. COITE, Dei)'1y CoWr. 

Thereby certify that I have examined the above account; that the above-named 
storekeeper was necessarily employed each of the days charged for; and that the ac- 
count, in all other respects, is correct and in accordance with the law. 

J. J. MOTT, 
Collector 6th District, State of N. C. 

Received of J. .J. Mott, collector and disbursing agent of the 6th district of No. 
Ca., the sum of one hundred & thirty -({p^ dollars, in full payment of the above ac- 
count. 
Dated at Statesville, this 2 day of Feb'y, 1876. 

E. B. DRAKE, 

Storeketper. 

Tlie otlier voucbers, scheduled as follows, are similar to the ibrego- 
iug, except the variations noted below. 



No. of 


No. of 


acc't. 


vou. 


11921ft 


2 


" 


26 


" 


22 


12303ft 


25 


" 


3 


" 


1 


12535a 


2 


" 


2 


" 


5 


12834ft 


7 


" 


2 


" 


1 


13197ft 


2 


■' 


9 


" 


11 


13299ft 


1 


" 


3 


" 


12 


13591ft 


2 


" 


3 


" 


1 


13832ft 


1 


" 


3 


" 


4 


14162ft 


12 


" 


15 


" 


4 


14247ft 


4 


" 


17 


" 


26 


14573ft 


2 


" 


6 


" 


40 



Name. 



Month. 



E. B. Drake ! Jaiinary, 1876 . 

' February, ' ' . 

March, ' " . 

April, " . 

' j May, " . 

' I June, " . 

' I July, " . 

' : August, " . 

' I September, " . 

' i October, ' ' . 

' i November, ' ' . 

December, " . 

January, 1877. 

February, " . 

March, "' . 

April, " , 

May, ' ' . 

June, " . 

July, " . 

August, " . 

September, " . 

October, " . 

November, " . 

December, " . 

January, 1878. 

February, " . 

March, ' " . 

April, " . 

May, " . 

June, " . 

July, " . 

August, " . 

September, " . 



Am't. 



130 
125 
135 
125 
135 
130 
130 
120 
104 
104 
104 
104 
108 

96 
108 
100 
108 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
104 
104 
108 

96 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
108 
100 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



89 



Ko. of 


No. of 


ace t. 


vou. 


14809a 


38 




38 


" 


62 


15026a 


72 




69 


" 


120 


15205a 


127 




127 


" 


95 


15489a 


80 


" 


67 ! 


" 


23 ; 


15722a 


35 ' 


" 


39 


" 


46 


15957a 


43 


" 


45 


" 


46 


16190a 


44 ' 


" 


49 : 


16729a 


44 


16377a 


38 


" 


34 1 


" 


40 


16629a 


41 


" 


46 


" 


47 


lC941a 


48 


•• 


55 


'• 


55 


171G3a 


54 




47 


" 


44 


17361a 


37 


" 


20 


" 


19 


17473a 


27 




28 


" 


37 


17669a 


34 


'• 


25 




29 



Name. 



:Month. 



Aint. 



E. B. Drake Octoljer, 1878. 

November. ' ' 

December, " . 
January, 1879. 

Ft^b^uaTy, ' ' . 

March, ' " . 

April, " - 

May. ' ' . 

June, " . 

July, " . 

August, '' . 

September, " . 

October, " . 

November, " . 

December, " . 
January, 1880. 

Febiuary, ' ' . 

March, " . 

April, " . 

May, " . 

June, " . 

July, " . 

An<;ust, " . 

September, " . 

October, " ' . 

November, " . 

December, " . 
January, 1881 

Februarv, " . 
March, ' 

Apiil, '■ 

May, " . 

June, " . 

July, " . 

August, '' . 

September, " . 

October, "' . 

November. " . 

December, " . 
January, 1882. 

Febiuary, " . 

March, " . 



108 
104 
104 
11)8 

96 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
104 
104 
108 
100 
108 
108 

96 
108 
104 
104 
104 
108 
104 
104 
104 
104 
108 
104 

96 
108 
104 
104 

68 
104 
108 
104 
104 
104 
108 
104 

96 
108 



Vouclier for January, 1S76, E. B. Drake acting as " storekeeper." 

Voucliers from February, 1870, to March 1877, incjlusive, affidavit 
signed as " general storekeeper." 

Voucliers from April, 1877, to September, 1878, inclusive, affidavit 
signed as "general .storekeeper and ganger." 

Vouchers from Oct., 1878, to Mar,, 1882, inclusive, affidavit signed as 
" storekeeper and gauger." 

Committee adjourned until Saturday, June 24, at 10 a. m. 



Washington, D. C, Saturday, June 24, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. in. There being no witnesses ready to 
testify, an adjournment was ordered until Mondaj^, June 26. 



Washington, D. C, June 2G, 1882. 
The committee met at 2 p. m. 
J. N. SuMjrERS sworn and examined : 



By the Chairman : 
Question. Where do you reside ?- 



Answer. T live twelve miles above 



States ville, N. C. 



90 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Were you ever in the service of the Internal Eevenue Department ? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what capacity? — A. Three-and-a-half bushel capacity was the 
distillery I staid at. 

Q. Were you a storekeeper ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long were you in the service? — A. I was in about two years, 
or a little better. 

Q. From when to when?— A. I commenced in March, '79, I believe — 
the 4th of March, the first I did. 

Q. State what distilleries you were at, and in their order. — A. I was 
with J. Bowles & Son, and Q. D. Freeze's. 

Q. Only those two? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know anything about the storekeepers dividing their pay 
with distillers? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you divide yours with any of the distillers? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you asked to? — A. No, sir; I don't know that I was. 

Q. What was said to you on the subject? — A. I don't know that ever 
anything particular was said about it — any way to me. 

Q. Nothing whatever that jon can remember? — A. About all I ever 
did hear said that looked like that was, that I ought to divide, because 
they were not making anything at the distillery. 

Q. Who said that? — A. Mr. Bowles said that to me. 

Q. You ought to divide? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Because he was not making anything; the distillery was a small 
one — three and a half bushels? — A. Yes, sir; about all he ever said to 
me. 

Q. What were they selling whisky at?— A. From $1.20 to $1.30, I 
think, while I was there; generally retailed some at an average of about 
$1.60 a gallon retail. 

Q. With whom did you board ? — A. I boarded at home. 

Q. You did not board with the distiller? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you ever called upon to pay any political contributions ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much? — A. Never no certain amount named to me when it 
was called for. 

Q. Who called on you for it? — A. It seems to me that Mr. Coite said 
I ought to help to pay some money about campaign purposes; it ap- 
pears to me like it was him or Colonel Sharpe. 

Q. Who is Mr. Coite? — A. He staid there in the office. 

Q. In what capacity? — A. Collector, I believe. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott ever say anything to you about it himself? — A. No, 
sir; I don't believe he ever said a word to me about paying anything 
for that purpose. 

Q. You made an affidavit before A. D. Cowles, deputy clerk, did you 
not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are the contents of that affidavit true? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In it you say you asked Dr. Mott for your check, who told you 
" that the election was coming on and he would have to call on the boys 
to help him a little"? — A. I asked him for the check which was held 
back ; he sent me to Mr. Gillespie about it — to go to him and see for 
what the check was held back. 

Q. What check did you ask for ?— A. Either March or May, 1880; 
not certain which of the months it was for. 

Q. What time was that, when you asked him for your check? — A. It 
was some time after it was due; generally we got the checks about the 
10th of the month, after the work was done. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 91 

Q. You say lie told you tliat Gillespie bad your check ? — A. To go to 
Gillespie and see what it was held back for. 

Q. You think that was in April ? — A. It was some time after the check 
was due. I don't recollect just exactly the time. I ought to have it if 
I was going to get it. 

Q. You went to Gillesj^ie, did you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did you say to him? — A. I asked him — told him — I wanted 
my check ; why was it held back ! He said he was going to hold it 
back until I told him what l)ecame of some whisky that had gone out 
of two barrels up there. They had been up there and nmde a regauge„ 
Some small packages, two, were placed back under some large barrels, 
where they were piled up four deep. They had been there ten months,. 
and could not get at them without taking the barrels out of the house. 
When he took out the whisky to make a regauge he stated the barrels 
were not fit to put whisky in, it leaked out so. The heads were made 
out of sap poplar, and the whisky seeped through. He said it might 
as well be reported to the ofitice to take those two barrels out. 

Q. That satisfied him about the whisky, did it? — A. I told him 
what he had said about that. He told me I could not get it then. I 
told him I wanted it. I then saw Mr. Coite or Dr. Mott about the 
check. One or the other I asked about it ; not certain which it was. 

Q. What were you told ? — A. He said I ought to help a little for cam- 
paign purposes, throw in a little; I said I was willing to throw in as 
much as any person else ; they said the rest of them was throwing in 
about what they kept back from me, and I did not want to be behind the 
rest. 

Q. How much was the amount of the check then due ? — A. $108. 

Q. Did you indorse the check to them ? — A. Some time after that Gil- 
lespie met me down in the St. Charles Hotel, in Statesville, with a piece 
of paper about the size of a check ; it did not say anything on it ; he had 
a pen and ink, and says, "I want you to sign this." I wanted to know 
what it was for. He says, " You sign this for campaign x^wrposes and 
you will get work to do." Just the words he told me. 

Q. " Sign this and you will get work to do." Were you then out of 
wcrk, without an assignment ? — A. 1 believe the distillery was under 
suspension at that time. 

Q. You had no w^ork '? — A. No, sir ; it appears to me the distillery 
was under suspension then. 

Q. The paper you signed turned out to be the check for your month's 
pay ? — A . That is what I found out afterwards. 

Q. Did you understand from the conversation that if you did not sign 
the check, perhaps you would not get work to do? — A. I did. I took it 
for granted, right there, that if I did not sign I would not get work 
to do. 

Q. Mr. Gillespie was the man whom Dr. Mott referred you to to see 
why the check was held back? — A. Yes, sir. Some time before that. 

Q. During that fiscal year, wiiat proportion of the time did you have 
work ? — A. I had work pretty much all the time. I staid at Mr. Bowles' 
near two years. The distillery was under suspension two or three weeks 
at a time — not longer than a month at the longest. I think under sus- 
pension three times. 

Q. Do you recollect how much money you drew for the whole year ? — 
A. No, sir; I don't. 

Q. Have you an idea what proportion of your salary this $108 would 
be? — A. No, sir. Never looked that far. 

Q. If you had gotten work every day, in every month during the year,. 



92 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

it would have been one- twelfth, would it not? — A. Yes, sir. I reckon 
it would. 

Q. And of course tlie percentage would be greater if your pay were 
less. Were you called upon for other contributions ! — A. I paid one per 
cent, a month for office expenses on every dollar I drew. 

Q. How long were you paying that? — A. I believe it was in 1879 I 
commenced paying, and paid in until 1881. 

Q. Do you know anything of a letter sent from the Commissioner's 
office in this city, to storekeepers and gangers, inquiring about this 
money, contributed for office expenses! — A. Mr. H. X. Dwire. 

Q. What office did he hold? — A. He was deputy, I suppose; he was 
the one that issued stamps, and always filled out the stamps. He was 
there and told me he wanted me to come into the office. I went up there. 
He said here is a letter to copy; he wrote a letter there for me to copy 
oft". He gave it to me; it was for me to state to the Commissioner of 
Internal Eevenue that I had not paid in more than three or four dollars 
for campaign purposes. 

Q. For office expenses? — A. For campaign purposes. 

Q. He had prepared a letter for you to send to the Commissidner, to 
that effect ? — A. Yes, sir ; he had. 

Q. Did you send it? — A. He told me to take it and copy it off' and 
return the copy. I returned it to G. W. Sharpe. 

Q. Did Bowles have more than one distillery? — A. No, sir; at first 
it was Bowles & Son, and the son did not like it, and told him he did 
not want to help run it any longer. They stopped it and started in his 
father's name — dropped the son's name. 

Q. Was there any other distillery except that one in the name of 
Bowles? — A. I declare I don't know whether there was or not. 

Q. Do you know anything about the multiplication of stills down 
there — making three or four small ones out of a large one? — A. No, sir; 
I don't believe I do. 

Q. How long did you storekeep for Freeze? — A. I went there the 6th 
of April and staid there until the last day of June — I believe it was — 
in 1881. 

Q. Were yon there when the fuss was made and the distillery 
seized? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you storekeeping for him then ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. It was under suspension ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had you been storekeeper for him previous to that? — A. Yes, sir; 
I went there in April and left the last of June; that was two or three 
months before that seizure was made. 

Q. Did you have the keys ? — A. No, sir. I delivered up the keys, the 
papers, and the books the very day the distillery stopped — the next 
morning. 

Q. To whom?— A. To the office, to Mr. Colyer; Dr. Mott's office. 

Q. Who should have had that key ? — A. I don't know. I never saw 
the key afterwards. 

Q. Whose business is it to carry the key of a distillery that has sus- 
pended? — A. The general storekeeper's if taken out of the office, I suj)- 
pose. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool: 

Q. You spoke just how about a distillery being under suspension ; do 
you recollect the exact date? — A. No, sir ; I don't. I did not think there 
would be any hereafter about it. 

Q. Are you sure the distillery was under susj^ension at the time you 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 9^ 

were asked to indorse this draft, of which you spoke? — A. I think it 
was; it appears to me it was then under suspension. I will not be posi- 
tive about it. 

Q. In order to put you to work, if that distillery was under suspen- 
sion, they had to send you to another ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Were you ever sent to another ? — A. I have said I went to Mr. 
Freeze's. 

Q. That was in 1881 ?— A. Yes. sir. 

Q. We are talking about 1880, the year before. Was this other distil- 
lery under suspension when you were sent to Freeze's? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long was the longest time that distillery was under suspen- 
sion at any one time? — A. It appears like a month. 

Q. At one time"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect that the aggregate of your pay for the two years 
was about $2,400? — A. Yes, sir; I suppose it was; if the distillery had 
not suspended ; if I had had work regularly all the year round. 

Q. Did you not receive $2,400 ? — A. I received all but this check, ex- 
cept what I paid in for ottice expenses. 

Q. How much did you pay in for office expenses altogether ? — A. I 
don't know ; I think I paid for about fourteen months — somewhere aloiig^ 
there. 

Q. Have you ever ])aid more than $5 all told ? — A. I generally paid 
from $1 to $1.05, $ 1. 10, and $1.25, if they could not make change. Was 
not anyways particular about it. 

Mr. Pool (to the chairman). I would like to see the reports on this- 
subject. 

(Special report handed to counsel.) 

Q. (To Witness.) I have here before me a paper which is an account 
upon this sul)ject of paying office expenses in an investigation instituted 
by the Internal Revenue Bureau, in which it is stated by Mr. Dwire that 
the amount paid by you was $3.20. — A. Three dollars aud twenty cents 
fo.i office expenses ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I don't see how he could make it that, for I paid in 
there from the date of this letter, which was sent me from the office. 
(Examining a letter.) From Sei)tember 1, 1879, 1 i)aid from $1 to $1.25 
every month I got work to do; from that on until in 1881, either April 
or May, I am not positive which. It looks to me a little more than that» 
Here is the letter sent to me from the office. (Handing to Chairman.) 

The Chairman. I want that letter to go in evidence as apart of Mr. 
Summers' testimony. 

(Marked Exhibit 21.) 

Internal Revenue Office, 
Statesville, N. C, Septeviher Ist, 1«79. 
Sir: There are office expenses for wluch no allowance has been made by the gov- 
ernment, and as it is not ri*;ht that some offices should pay all and others none, I have 
thought proper to equalize them. 

I consider that one j)er cent, of your monthly salary is a reasonable assessment. 
Please therefore, at once, upon receipt of your pay each month, forward to this office 
the amount due from you as above specified. 

An account of receipts and expenditures under this fund is kept at the office for in- 
spection by all concerned. 
Respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

The Witness. I paid in from the date of that letter until '81, either 
April or May. After I went to Freeze's distillery, I paid the last. I am 
certain of that. 



94 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. I have before me the affidavit of H. X. Dwire, who made that re- 
port from which I have just now read, stating that yovi paid $3.20, in 
which Mr. Dwire says : " I recollect when I told Mr. Summers the amount 
he had contributed, he said it was about correct." — A. I paid in from 
the date of that letter until '81, as soon as I got work to do. 

(To the chairman.) I would like this affidavit to go in evidence. 

(Marked Exhibit 22.) 

Winston, N. C, January 26, 1882. 
Dr. J. J. MoTT, 

Washington, D. C. : 
Sir : In answer to yours, relative to the affidavit of J. N. Summers, I have to say I do 
uot recollect about writing to Mr. Summers, but I think perhaps I did write him, as 
lie had called a time or two at the office to know whether he had paid his assessments 
to date. I know he offered to pay a time or two, and I told him to hold on as the ac- 
count had not been made out and no money was needed at the time ; and if I wrote it 
was to enable him to report correctly in making his statement to Hon. Commissioner. 
I recollect when I told Mr. Summers the amount he had contributed, he said it was 
about correct. I do remember that very few paid over ten dollars, and many only two 
or three dollars, and large number paid nothing at all ; in fact, were never notified 
or requested to pay anything. If Mr. Summers had paid one per cent, for the whole 
amount he received he conld not have paid over, say from $5.00 to $8.00 for time he 
was employed. If he had paid regularly, why should he have to inquire whether he 
Iiad paid to date his assessments? 
Very respectfully, 

H. X. DWIRE. 
Subscribed and sworn to before me, 

JAMES MARTIN, 

Special Deptity ColVr. 

Q. I have before me, in this executive document, what seems to be 
a certificate from yourself (quoting) : 

Sweet Home, ZredfeM Co., JV C 
This is to certify that I subscribed to the campaign fund of the Republican State 
«xecutive committee of North Carolina, during the State and national campaign of 
1880, through Dr. J. J. Mott, the sum of $104.00 dollars, the same being a check for my 
-salary as storekeeper and ganger for the month of September, 1880, and that the same 
•was freely and cheerfully given, and would be again under like circumstances. 
This 25th day of April, 1881. 
Respectfully, 

J. N. SUMMERS, 

Stic. # Gr. 

A. That is the way that I had to answer the Commissioner, that it was 
only three or four dollars for campaign purposes. 

Q. Did you sign that certificate ? — A. I had to do it. " 

Q. Did it contain the truth ? — A. He said that was all that was used 
out of it; they kept the money back; said that was all that was used 
for campaign purposes. 

Q. What, the $104^— A. The three or four dollars; they kept the 
43heck back ; the campaign was over. 

Q. You say they asked you to sign a letter that you paid but three 
or four dollars for campaign purposes % — A. Yes, sir, they did. 

Q. Did you sign such a letter? — A. I told him' if that was all I was 
willing to sign it. 

Q. Did you sign it ? — A. T signed it, and wanted the rest of what they 
had left, if they did not use but three or four dollars of that check. 

Q. But this says $104? — A. If they used it for that purpose I was 
willing for it all to go there ; but this letter came from the Commissioner 
wanting us to state how much we had paid in. And he wanted me to 
state to him that it was only three or four dollars that I paid. 

Q. Are you not mixing up what you paid for campaign purposes and 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 95 

what you paid for ofQce expenses 1 — A. No, sir, I am not. That is wliat 
I understood it to be signed for. 

Q. Suppose you read tluxt yourself (handing certifieate to witness) and 
tell me if it is a correct statement ? — A. I told him if they kept it for 
campaign purposes I was willing for it to be used that way. 

Q. I ask you if that certificate of yours contains the truth? — A. It 
does; just what I done for campaign purposes. 

Q. There is no falsehood in that certificate at all ? — A. Then the next 
thing they wanted me to sign was a letter that I had paid in only three 
or four dollars — to be sent to the Commissioner. 

Q. I observe this certificate is dated the 25th of April, 1881. I think 
you made this contribution in 1880. Now tell me whether this certificate 
I have read contains the truth. — A. If they used it for campaign pur- 
poses it does. And then when I had to sign it, in this letter they wanted 
to go to the Commissioner they wanted nie to say I only paid three or 
four dollars for campaign purposes. Then I wanted to know where 
the balance of the money was that was kept back. 

Q. Did you sign such a letter and send it to the Commissioner ? — A. 
I did. 

Q. When?^A. Some time after that was signed for the $104. Then 
I asked him what became of the balance of the money. 

Q. Some time after you gave this certificate ? — A. Yes, sir ; they said 
only that much was used for camiiaign purj)oses. I wanted to know 
where the rest of the money was. 

Q. Did you receive a letter from the Commissioner *? — A. I did not get 
it from the Commissioner, but W. C. Morrison got one, and that was the 
way, they said, to answer it. 

Q. When was that; how long ago? — A. Along about in '81, Ireckon. 

Q. What was in the letter? — A.. I did not read the letter. Billy Mor- 
rison said he had it; he (Dwire) wrote it there in the office and gave 
me the letter there to copy off, stating I only paid in three or four dol- 
lars for campaign purposes — this letter that Dwire gave me. 

Q. Did you see the letter ? — A. I did not see the one that came from 
the Commissioner, but saw the one Dwire gave me to copy off. 

Q. To whom was it addressed? — A. G. W. Sharpe wrote it to me, if 
any one up in my neighborhood — any storekeeper — got a letter to that 
effect, to tell them to answer the way Dwire told me to answer that. 

Q. Was that not about the incidental office expenses? — A. No, sir; it 
was not; it was not the way it was brought to me. 

Q. Don't you know that Dwire had gone away from there before 
1880; had nothing on earth to do with this campaign fund in 1880? — A. 
H. X. Dwire had left the office before the campaign of 1880? 

Q. Yes. — A. He was doing business there in the office all the time I 
was in the revenue service, for he was there when I acted as store- 
keeper at Freeze's distillery. He was right there. Mr. Glenn came in 
and took his place afterwards. 

Q. I will ask you again whether this certificate of yours, dated on the 
25th of April, 1881, is the truth I— A. What, about the three dollars and 
something that was paid in ? 

Q. No, sir; you certified on the 25th of April that you subscribed to 
the campaign fund of the Republican State executive committee in Sep- 
tember, 1880, in the certificate you read just now. — A. I signed that 
certificate, and then after the election was over, when the Commissioner 
wrote about this, and wanted to know how much the officers had paid 
for campaign purposes, Mr. Dwire gave me this letter to copy oft", stat- 
ing I only paid in three or four dollars. I told him "I didn't want to do 



96 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

it. "How can I do that?" He said that was all that was used for it. I 
said, "Where is the balance of my money, when I had that much due?" 

Q. Here is the certificate that you read just now. You ssky that you 
gave this certificate; that is after the campaign was overf — A, Yes, sir. 

Q. You then gave another certificate that you paid but three or four 
dollars'? — A. That is the letter that Dwire gave me to copy off, wanting 
me to state I did not pay but three or four dollars. I said, how could I 
do it? He said, there was not but that much used. 

Q. When was that? — A. Just before I left there. It was in April or 
May, 1881 ; some time during the three months while I staid at Freeze's 
distillery. 

Q, This certificate is dated the 2otli of April, 1881, in which you state 
you gave $104?— A. I think it was 1880. 

Q.The date of the certificate is the 25th of April, 1881, for $;04. — - 
A. Then they have dated it wrong; there is that much abont it. It was 
kept back for campaign purposes until I signed this letter in 1881. 

Q. This certificate is dated about a year after the campaign was over; 
suppose you read it again. — A. I have read it. I don't recollect of ever 
giving any certificate that long afterwards. It was before the election 
as well as I recollect. 

Q. Your recollection seems to be confused considerably about this; is 
it not possible that your recollection is confused about the office expense 
fund and the campaign fund, so that you have got the three dollars put 
in one place now, whereas in reality, if we get at the facts, it belongs to 
the other place? — A. Just as I have told you it was. 

Q. You feel perfectly clear that the certificate for three dollars was 
for campaign purposes ? — A. For campaign purposes. 

Q. It was givegi about Mayor June, 1881? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that Dwire handed you the letter to sign? — A. He gave me 
the letter to copy oil' stating I had paid in that much, and I returned 
them both back to the office. 

Q. And yet it appears from this certificate that some time about the 
last of April you had given a certificate that you had paid $104? — A. If 
it is so I do not recollect of ever giving any certificate after the elec- 
tion ; as well as I recollect it was given before the election. 

Q. You gave the certificate before the election "? — A. As far as I recol- 
lect, it was given before that. 

Q. In 1880 ? — A. Yes, sir. When the money was kept back ; some- 
time after they had kept the money back. 

Q. To whom did you give that certificate ? — A. I don't recollect. I 
was going there to the office. 

Q. What was in it ? — A. Well, it was what is in that right there (in- 
dicating certificate) ; just exactly, I believe, word for word what I read 
there. 

Q. You state in this certificate that you gave the $104 freely and 
cheerfully, and would do it again under like circumstances? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. That is true ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Freely and cheerfully given, and would be under like circum- 
stances given again ? — A. Yes, sir. Well, then, here that letter came 
from Dwire for me to copy that I only paid in three or four dollars — 
only that used. He told me he did not know where my money was — 
what they had done with the balance of the money. What I wanted ta 
know was if they only used that much for campaign i)urposes. I wanted 
the balance of that money. I was willing to pay in as much as any one,. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 97 

as far as I was able ; but if oul^^ that luuch used for campaign purposes, 
I wauted the balance. 

Mr. Pool (to the chairmau). There is following this certiiicate, which 
has gone into evidence, an afiidavit of Mr. A. B. Gillespie, which I 
would like to appear also as an exhibit. 

The Chairman. We had Mr. Gillespie sworn, but not asked about 
that. 

Mr. Pool. We might bring him back, as this is new matter not gone 
into before. 

(Marked Exhibit 23.) 

State of North Carolina, 

Iredell Co. : 

A. B. Gillespie, being duly sworn, deposes aud says, that some time during the sum- 
mer of 1880 he requested J. N. Summers, S. & G. for the 6th dist. of North Carolina, 
to endorse a check, for what month or for what amount he does not now remember, 
for campaign purposes, aud that at the time of doing so he stated to said Summers 
that it was a voluntary contribution, and no one was requested to contribute except 
those who would do so willingly and cheerfully. Thereupon said Summers did of his 
own accord endorse a check for his salary for one month, which check this deponent 
sent to the State executive committee through J. J. Mott. This deponent farther 
swears that he made no such remarks to said Summers as ' ' Don't say nothing about this 
at all, let it all go, if anybody gets anything we will be the men"; that the only con- 
versation between him aud Summers was, that the money would be used for campaign 
purposes, and that all assessments made by the national executive committee would 
be settled out of the check then endorsed after it had been sent to the State executive 
committee. All that part of said Summers' affidavit, made on the 19th day of Oct. 
1881, before A. D. Cowles, D. C, which states that, "soon thereafter the deponent 
met the said deputy collector, A. B. Gillespie, and acting on information given him 
by the collector demanded of him, the said A. B. Gillespie, the said check for the 
amount for services rendered as above stated, the deputy collector denied the allega- 
tion of J. J. Mott, collector, that he had it, asserting that he had nothing to do with 
his (deponent's) check," is utterly false. 

The said Summers has never in his life had any conversation with this dei^onent in 
regard to checks supposed to be held by J. J. Mott. 

A. B. GILLESPIE. 

Sworn to and subscribed before me this 20th January, 1882. 

J. FRANK DAVIS, 

De}). Collector. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Do you know if these contributions were general; if all the officers 
were called upon just as you were? — A. Billy Morrison was called on. 

Mr. Pool. That is the witness who was examined here f 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was your understanding whether it was general or not; some 
of your men were not selected out I suppose ; what did Mr. Gillespie 
tell you? — A. I don't know whether general or not — about signing 
these checks *? 

Q. Yes. — A. He said, they were all doing- it. 

Q. That was the general understanding'? — A. All the boys were sign- 
ing them. 

Q. Supposing that all the officers on duty, deputy collectors, clerks, 
special deputies, storekeepers and gangers, general storekeepers and 
so on, had all contributed a month's salary, about how much would it 
have amounted to! — A. I have no idea ; if I knew how many there were, 
and what their salaries were, all of them, might tell. 

Q. You can't say, then"? — A. No, sir; I can't say. 

Q. Do you know what was done with the money? Did you ever get 

any acknowledment from anybody, that your money had been received, 

and how it was appropriated? — A. Nothing more than they said they 

used it for campaign purposes, when I inquired about it. Sometime 

S. Mis. 116 7 



98 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

after I found out that was a check — they wanted me to indorse, that 
piece of paper. I did not see anything on it. 

Q. You don't know what the campaign purposes were; they never 
tokl you?— A. iSTo, sir. 

Q.' What was the general understanding through the country around 
about storekeepers and distillers dividing? — A. I don't know. I have 
heard a good many talking about it outside. They said they lt>elieved 
they were doing it. That was all I ever heard said about it. 

Q. What was the general understanding about distillers having the 
choice as to whom should be their storekeepers? — A. I declare I don't 
know. They wanted men that they were acquainted with, all I knew. 
I reckon, rather than have men not acquainted with, they would not 
run. Sometimes they would send men off in different neighborhoods 
that they were not acquainted with. 

Q. Do you know whether the distillers had any word or say-so as to 
who should be their storekeepers? — A. I don't know anything about it. 
I have known them to go and ask for storekeepers, and sometimes get 
who they wanted and sometimes would not. 

Q. Are you any kin to P. F. Sommers ? — A. Not that I know of. 

Q. How came you to make that certificate that has been read here ; 
who applied to you for it ? — A. Which one ? 

Q. The one dated the 25th of April, 1881, in which you say you sub- 
scribed $104 to the campaign fund. — A. It appears to me like it was 
G. W. Sharpe. I won't be positive about it. 

Q. This certificate you were not sworn to, were you? — A. No, sir. 

Q. It did not profess to be sworn to. You say Mr, Sharpe applied to 
you for that? — A. It appears to me like it was him. 

Q. Do you know why he wanted it? — A. No, sir; I don't. 

Q. Did he tell you? — A. He did not say what he wanted it for. 

Q. You don't think that is the true date of it — ^April 25, 1881? — A. 
No, sir ; I don't, without I am badly mistaken. 

Q. Did you write it yourself, or somebody write it for you? — A. I 
think I copied it off. I am not certain whether I copied it off, or just 
signed it ; would not be positive. 

Q. Did he have one prepared for you to sign? — A. It appears to me 
like that I copied one off". 

Q. Then he had it prepared for you, and requested you to copy it? — 
A. I won't be positive about it, whether I only signed it or just copied 

it off'. 

Mr. Pool (to the chairman). The original of the certificate we will 
bring up in the morning. I would like for it to be put in, and to ask 
the witness whether it is in his handwriting, body and all. 

The Chairman. He ought to have the opportunity, of course, to tes- 
tify about it. 

Adjourned until 1 p. m., Tuesday, June 27, 1882. 



Washington, D. C, June 27, 1882. 

The committee met at 1 p. m. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, we find that the written certificate of Mr. 
Summers, from which this copy was printed, that was read yesterday, is 
on file in the department, and has not been returned to Dr. Mott. 

The Chairman. You will not want Mr. Summers, then, on the stand ? 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 99 

Mr. Pool. No, sir. We wish to ask Mr. Eamsay some questions at 
some time, if you are going to put liim ou tlie stand. 

The Chairman. You can ask him at any time. I have detained him 
until I coukl get certain documents from the department. 

J. A. Ramsay recalled and cross-examination resumed : 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. How long were you engaged in the revenue service ; from 
what time to wLat time f — Answer. From the Istof March, 1872 — that is, 
you mean with Dr. Mott ? 

Q. Yes, sir.— A. From the 1st of :\rarch, 1872, until the 18th of Feb- 
ruarj', 1871. 

Q. At what time was Dr. Mott made collector ? — A. He took the office 
the 1st of March, 1872, or about that date. All the papers were dated 
from the 1st of jMarch. 

Q. Previous to that time you had been under Mr. Wylie ? — A. Y"es, 
sir. I was with Mr. Wylie nearly five years. I think I went with Mr. 
Wylie the 19th of March ; from the 1st of March until the 19th it lacked 
that much of being live years. 

Q. You are very well acquainted with the district, both before Dr. Mott 
went in and since. You reside in it ? — A. I live in the district, but don't 
know a great deal of the working of the revenue service since I left it. 

Q. Will you state some of the difficulties of collecting the internal 
revenue in that district, the disposition to resist the law ? — A. There 
was a disposition to evade the law. It was rather in a clandestine man- 
ner, not much open resistance. It was evasion more than resistance. 

Q. How was it along in 1872 and 1873, under Dr. Mott ? — A. It was 
the same way. 

Q. Was it safe for a revenue officer unarmed and un ittended to go 
about in the district ? — A. I went all over the district and did not fear 
any point of it. Wilkes County was thought to be the worst country, and 
that was in the territory occupied under Mr. Wylie. I have traveled 
through it under Dr. Mott, and made collections all over Wilkes ; went 
up to ^[ulberry Gap, and across over, following the chain of mountains 
to Reddies River Gap. Sometimes the mountains were so steep that 
you had to get down and lead your horse. 

Q. AVas there a great amount of illicit distilling in those mountains "I 
— A. A great many ran in a small way up there. 

Q. The illicit distilling was then generally done in small stills ; of 
what capacity, would you say f — A. The largest illicit distilleries ever 
broken up were about seventy or eighty gallon stills; in bushels I don't 
suppose more than one or two bushels capacity per day ; they did not rua 
regularly, but in a clandestine manner, always on the watch out for 
some person observing them. Any one going up in that country a little 
neatly dressed, with papers in his pockets, was spotted at once. 

Q. Have you an idea how many of these illicit stills were seized un- 
der ]Jr. Mott's administration? — A. I could not say; there was quite a, 
number of sales made; could not give any definite idea. 

Q. Has theie been an improvement in that respect under his admin- 
istration 1 — A. I can't say, after leaving the service. 

Q. Don't you know what the condition of the service is now? — A. No, 
sir ; I can't say I do. 

Q. Y^ou left in '73, then? — A. Recently my business has been entirely 
foreign and outside of that. For the last year I have been out of the 
lower portion of the district and np in the weh^tein part of the State. 



100 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IX 

Q. You recollect, of course, that Mr. Clarke was sentup into Dr. Mott's 
district and shortly after he was made clerk"? — A. Yes, sir; I knew he 
came up there. 

Q. To act as clerk ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that for the purpose of insttucting the officers? — A. 1 can't 
say as to that. 

Q. How to carry on things? — A. He came up there, as I understand, 
to assist Mr. Oowles in opening the books, but shortly after Cowles got 
the appointment of clerk to the federal court, and Clarke was made clerk 
in charge of the books. 

Q. Mr. Clarke had previously been in the internal revenue service? — 
A. So I understood. 

Q. Did you know he was sent up there by Mr. Perry, the supervisor, 
who recommended him ? — A. I so understood that Mr. Perry sent up a 
clerk, one acquainted with the service, and thought he understood it. 

Q. Do you recollect it was at his instance, and by his recommenda- 
tion, he was sent there and put under Dr. Mott? — A. Ko, sir; I could 
not say as to that; I only heard him speaking of him as one competent. 
The only conversation I heard about it was between Mr. Wylie and Mr. 
Perry. 

Q. What was that? — A. It was in regard to the competency of the 
different bookkeepers. 

Q. What did the supervisor say? — A. Mr. Perry thought Mr. Clarke 
well acquainted with it. 

Q. Now, you acted under Dr. Mott for about two years, did you not ? — 
A. Nearly two years. 

Q. Did you sometime act as clerk ? — A. For a week I did. 

Q. At one time? — A. Only one week. Dr. Mott wrote to me to come 
up there; that he had been compelled to discharge Clarke, and take 
charge of the office until he could make other arrangements. He spoke 
to me about it in Charlotte, a few days before, to come up and take 
charge of the office. 1 told him I did not desire to do it. I wanted a 
more active life. He wrote me to Salisbury, and I took charge of the 
office. 

Q. About what time was that? — A. I don't recollect now; sometime 
in '73 ; in the summer, I think. 1 have the original letter, if it is a mat- 
tet of any material consequence, from which the exact date can be as- 
certained. 

Q. Was Mr. Clarke addicted to drinking? — A. That was the reason 
he was displaced at that time, on account of drunkenness. Dr. Mott 
told me in Charlotte he was drinking so that he could not stand it. 

Q. Was Mr. Clarke afterward restored? — A. Yes, sir; I think he 
was. 

Q. Do you recollect whether he still drank after being restored ? — A. 
I don't think he drank to that excess as he had before ; at least I did 
not see it. I don't recollect of seeing him drunk after that. 

Q. Did you not have charge of the office sometimes for the purpose of 
selling stamps and things of that kind? — A. No, sir; there was some 
stamp books placed in my charge, but I did not have charge of the 
stamps in the office. 

Q. Don't you recollect you were there in charge of the safe, and sell- 
ing stamps on more than one occasion? — A. I never had charge of the 
safe at any time, even during the time I was in charge of the office, when 
we were engaged in taking an account of the condition of the office. 
Clarke still retained the key of the safe. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 101 

Q. You were still there about tlie office '? — A. About the office two 
years. 

Q. Doin^ writing- aud frequently sitting at Dr. Mott's desk ? — A. Most 
of the writing I did was at Dr. Mott's desk, or in the room which Dr. 
Mott generally remained in. Most of the work I did there was in the 
fall of '73, while there was considerable pressure to get the new distil- 
leries under way. 

Q. And you still never actually had charge as clerk but one week, 
but was frequently about there acting in a clerical capacity f — A. When 
I was there, done any work necessary. 

Q. You gave a bond as deputy to the collector, did you not? — A. I 
don't think I e^'er gave any bond at all directly. After I was appointed. 
Dr. Mott wanted me to attend to some business ; I remarked, I wanted 
to go home and fix up the bond. Said he, never mind about that, go 
and attend to this other business. I don't think that there was ever 
one made during the whole time — in fact, am certain there was none. 

Q. It is your impression that you never gave any bond at all ? — A. 
No, sir. 1 paid very little attention to it, because I think the time was 
over. I was with Mr Wylie between two and three years before ever I 
filed a bond. When I did it then, it was because a revenue agent came 
up and demanded bonds. I told him the collector had never taken any, 
that he knew whom he had as his deputies ; said he, there must be bonds 
for them. Then I filed one, dating it back to the commencement. 

Q. Do you recollect ever talking with Frank Adams in regard to a 
bond; he wanted you to tell him who the sureties were? — A. I don't 
think Frank Adams ever said a word to me about bonds. I have no 
recollection of it. 

Q. Did you not refuse to tell him who the sureties were on it? — A. I 
don't tbink I did, or ever anything was said about it. 

Q. You were examined in an investigation before a referee some time 
ago? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect ever stating on that occasion that you did not 
recollect who Avas on the bond with you ? — A. I was asked the question 
who was on the bond. I had no recollection of any bond being given, 
if I recollect aright. I think the answer was there was none given, to 
the best of my recollection. 

Q. You stated you did not recollect who was on it ? — A. If there was 
none given, of course could not recollect who was on it. 

Q. Don't you recollect mentioning in that investigation the name of 
one of the sureties on your bond ? — A. I mentioned, if one given ; very 
likely there was one name on it. I don't think then, or now, there was 
any ever given. 

Q. You said the other day the amount of taxes you collected was over 
and above your salary, estimating the salary at $100 a month ; that is, 
the amount allowed by the government ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That the amount you collected, the taxes, would have overpaid 
that $100 a month? — A. I don't think I understand your question. 

Q. You were claiming $150 a month ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Dr. Mott was insisting you were to have only $100 ? — A. Yes, sir; 
he insisted in '74. There was nothing said about it until it came to 
the final settlement, after the first contract was made. 

Q. He insisted it was only $100 a month. In the meantime you had 
made collection of taxes, and applied them to your salary ? — A. Under 
his direction, applied them in paying current expenses. 

Q. Had you not collected more than enough then to have paid you 
$100 a month ? — \. Yes, sir. As I said the other day, my understand- 



102 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

ing with Mm was that I left a safe margin, and thought there was r^ght 
smart money clue me. 

Q. You overpaid yourself if confined to the $100 a month? — A. Yes, 
sir. I don't recollect the exact balance, but a small amount, if confined 
to the $100 a month. 

Q. Were there not some taxes in the aggregate collected by you, that 
you did not return on paper or by anything to the office ? — A. No, sir. 
Dr. Mott offered a reward to some of his deputies to find any such. I 
told them they were welcome to search the district. 

Q. You are not certain but that some of your receipts are out in the 
hands of certain parties ? — A. IsTone that I know of but are included in 
the return ; everything I know of. 

Q. Do you think they are, or they are not ? — A. I don't think there 
are any such ; if there is, I don't know it. Mr. Martin and Mr. Adams 
both told me that Dr. Mott had requested them to put themselves to 
some trouble to see if they could not find something of the kind. 

Q. If you collected these taxes certainly you kept an account of them? 
— A. Certainly I did. 

Q. And gave your receipts 1 — Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, by looking at that account and knowing the receipts that 
were out for the taxes collected, as shown by that memoranda, can you 
not say positively whether you have accounted for all the receipts that 
are out *? — A. I could; I accounted for all of them; some parties sent 
you money hy registered letter, and the taxes of some two or three in 
one letter, but I kept a record of all these accounts, so that I can say 
that everything was correctly accounted for. Mr. Perry, the supervi- 
sor, told me he had caught up with every collector that had been in 
the district except me, but he had no knowledge of finding anything 
that had been abated that I had collected, but what had been accounted 
for. 

Q. From looking at your memoranda can you state positively that no 
such receipts are out in the district? — A. I don't think there are any 
such ; think I can say so confidently. 

Q. You have got a record of the taxes you collected? — A. I have a 
record of all deposited in Ealeigh, but some deposited in the office at 
States ville I have no record for. 

Q. Have you ever returned that record, such as you have? — A. I re- 
turned to Dr. Mott an account of the taxes deposited at Raleigh. 

Q. All you collected on that record? — A. No, sir; what I deposited 
in Raleigh, not on that record. 

Q. Have yoit not got a record of that? — A. None at all; just gave a 
list to Clarke of the money, and have no record at all of it. 

Q. Was there any taxes collected bj^ you for which you gave re- 
ceipts that don't appear on the record you returned to Dr. Mott, or 
upon the record sent to Raleigh? — A. All the taxes I collected and de- 
posited the money in Raleigh, are accounted for on the record to Dr. 
Mott. All the moneys collected and paid over to Clarke I gave him a 
list for. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. He was the clerk? — A. Chief clerk. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. These two records would embrace all that you collected and all 
you gave receipts for ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You feel certain of that? — A. Yes, sir; you see the record of the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 103 

taxes I deposited at Raleigh was put on Form 102; those I gave to Mr. 
Clarke; was just a nieiiiorauduni of the collections. 

Q. You mean to say no taxes had been collected that were not ac- 
counted for, and no receipts of yours out? — A. I think I can very safely 
say that none not accounted for. 

Q. You do sav so ? — A. That is to the best of my knowledge and be- 
lief. 

Q. You can say then positively, can you not, you collected no money 
that you have not returned ? — A. I think I can say so very safely ; but 
to say that in the whole transactions of two years everything is posi- 
tively correct, I would not for that length of time ; but so far as all 
reasonable correct business transactions are concerned, I think they are 
correct. 

Q. How could you collect taxes and give receipts you did not re- 
turn ? —A. Well, there was one part of the time the moneys were depos- 
ited and stamps got afterwards. I asked Dr. Mott to allow the stamps 
to be taken out at that time and sold to the parties direct, but he re- 
fused to do it, and in that way there was some confusion. I don't be- 
lieve there was anj" in my account. 

Q. I am talking about when you gave receipts and before the stamps. — 
A. No, sir ; I don't think any thing incorrect through it. I had stubs 
and made my returns from the stubs. 

Q. Did you ever collect money that was not on the stubs ? — A. ^o, 
sir ; I always filled out the stub and receipt at the same time. 

Q. You never collected money and gave receipts not put on the 
stubs. — A. ]Sro, sir. 

Q. You are able, then, to say you did return, and account for, to the 
collector, all the money that you collected, in the way of which you 
have been speaking ? — A. Yes, sir ; I gave him a list of all the collec- 
tions I made. 

Q. You are able to say that positively ! — A. To the best of my kuowl- 
edge and belief he got a list of the whole. I have no knowledge of 
any whatever he did not get a list of; that is the list filed and deposited 
in Raleigh, and the list given to Qlarke. On three different occasions — 
I cannot locate the time just now — I gave Clarke returns to make up, 
and some of these were listed from my stubs. Of course I did not put 
them on 102 when given to him. 

Q. It seems to me very clear, and I suppose you can say it with en- 
tire positiveness, that you could not aftbrd to tear a receipt otf and not 
put it on the stub f — A. Of course not. 

Q. You did not do it ? — A. No, sir ; I recollect very distinctly that 
Mr. Crane submitted a lot of stubs to me taken out of the collector's 
office when turned over to Dr. Ramsay ; he asked me if I knew any- 
thing about the collections, and to assist him to verify them by the list 
to see if accounted for or not. The next I saw of these stubs they were 
in the hands of Mr. Beach. There was quite a number there that had 
not been accouuted for. 

Q. Were they yours ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. I am speaking of yours entirely; these stubs would show every 
receipt you tore out and gave ? — A. Yes, sir ; all bound up in the books. 
When I filled out a receipt I filled out a stub to correspond. 

Q. The stubs would show every receipt you gave? — A. Yes, sir; all 
accounted for in Form 102, or on the list to Clarke. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You got copies, did you not, of those vouchers for your accounts 



104 COLLECTIOIN OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

of '72 and '73, against Dr. Mott, for use in the suit with him ?— A. Yes, ^ 
sir ; I got copies of the vouchers together with an abstract. 

Q. Did you come on here and search in person for them?— A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. When was that ?— A. It was during the year '74 -, I think in Sep- 
tember. I don't recollect positively the time. 

Q. Were those amended vouchers on file then that appear here 
now ? — A. No, sir ; I came here — to explain the whole matter — first in 
March. I wrote to the department in regard to this matter, and they 
answered my letter by asking me to report to them the amounts that 
Dr. Mott had paid. I replied to the letter and did so. They responded 
to that letter by referring me to Dr. Mott, saying I had made the con- 
tract with him and the department had nothing to do with it. That was 
the substance of their letter. I came on here to examine into it and to 
see what was the case. I had an attorney here at that time employed 
in some other matters. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Who was he ?— A. Mr. Eichards. He went through the depart- 
ment with me and looked the papers up. Mr. Kestler found out I was 
coming on here and asked me to look for his $15. Says I, " Give me a 
statement of it," as I had heard he was emplo.>ed at the rate of $80 a 
month and $15 was still due, he only having received $65. Says I, 
"Make out a statement of what was due." We were in the post-office at 
that time and he sat down and, with a pencil, wrote out a statement of 
his case and brought it to me. Says I, " The department will not trouble 
themselves with any statement made out in pencil." Mr. Bringle, the 
postmaster, was standing by, and said, " I will take and copy it off in 
ink." Mr. Bringle wrote it and qualified Kestler, and I filed that paper 
with the Eirst Comptroller. Then the First Comptroller gave admission 
to us, examined his files, and said his oflSce did not show how it was, 
and referred us to the Fifth Auditor's office, where the papers were 
found. Kestler's affidavit is on file in the First Comptroller's office. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What is the date of the copies j-ou got ? — A. The last copies I 
got was a certified copy of vouchers, one in 1874 and the other in 1877. 

Q. Did the copies contain the amended vouchers in 1877 ? — A. No, 
sir ; the amended vouchers were not in there. The copy of November 
3, 1877, is here. Dr. Mott procured it from the clerk of the court at 
Salisbury, and he took it out of the records of the court there. 

Q. Will you look at this amended voucher and abstract and see if 
there is any mark of any clerk about the office of the Commissioner or 
any date by which you can say when they were filed? (Exhibit 13 
handed to witness.) — A. Do you have reference to Form 63 ? 

Q. The amended abstract and amended voucher. — A. I see nothing 
here (indicating back) on it, only the number "7166." 

Q. Will you say if the originals do not have an entry or stamp by the 
clerk in the Commissioner's office (Exhibit 14 handed to witness)? — A. 
The original for the quarter ending December 31, 1872, 1 see, has a stamp 
on the back of it. 

Q. Can you read it ? — A. No, sir ; I can't. 

Q. Is it not the " Fifth Auditor's Office"?— A. The "Fifth Auditor's 
Office, May 12," I think it is. The number on that is "6715." The 
amended corresponding is the one just looked at. Exhibit 13. This is 
the amended abstract, and I don't see anything in it except that number 
"7166" in pencil. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 105 

Q. Will you look and make tlie same examination of the other vouch- 
ers for the quarter ending March 31, 1873 1 Examine the original voucher 
and abstract and the amended voucher- and abstract, and see if one has 
marks of the office of the Commissioner upon it, and if the other has 
not (Exhibits 16 and 17 handed to witness). — A. On the original (Ex- 
hibit 16) I find that there are two stamps on it. One is very dim, but 
I think the date is April 19. 

Q. That is on the "original" you mean, Exhibit 16! — A. This is the 
original, " Internal-Revenue Office, April 19," and " Fifth Auditor's Office, 
June 16, 1873." The former is so faint I can't make out the year. 

Q. See if there is anything on the amended abstract voucher? — A. 
(Exhibit 17.) I find nothing on the amended abstract, only the numbers 
in pencil " 7166." I find no office stamps on it. » 

Q. State whether you find the vouchers for that quarter in the same 
condition (Exhibits 10 and 11 handed to witness) ? — A. On the '' original," 
Exhibit 10, is the stamp of the " Internal- Revenue Office, October 8, 
1873," I think it is 5 can't be positive about it. I am not certain whether 
"3" or "2"; and on the "amended" (Exhibit 11) I see nothing but the 
pencil figures "7166." 

Q. In relation to those stubs that Mr. Pool examined you about, you 
say you did find a good many that needed explanation ? — A. That was 
on another lot of stubs. 

Q. Not on yours ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you examine them I — A. I looked over them with Mr. Crane. 
I told Mr. Beach, when he came to me, that the only way he could ascer- 
tain with any certainty was to go to the office and compare with the books 
there. I had no means of ascertaining them correctly, but I had at my 
own instance got a book and had entered into the books from the list; 
but somebody had surreptitiously taken it from my office, and where it 
was I knew not. If we had that book they could very readily find out 
all about it, but after the book having been removed by somebody from 
my office, we were without any means of ascertaining. He went to the 
office and made the examination, and came back and said there was 
some money in somebody's j)Ocket. 

Q. They did not find it in yours ? — A. No, sir. None of the taxes was 
in m}' handwriting, or received by me. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. I call your attention to " Compensation Account No. 6875," pur- 
porting to be the "Fifth Auditor's report on an account for salary, com- 
missions, and expenses of J. J. Mott, collector for the 6th district of 
North Carolina." I want to ask you if those vouchers, the amended 
abstract and all, do not bear the office number of "6875" ? — A. No, sir; 
different numbers. 

Q. I do not ask you about the particular ones, but whether those 
papers do not all bear the office number of 6875 '? — A. I don't know ex- 
actly what that number is for. 

Q. You see what it is for — " Compensation Account No. 6875 "I — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. I will ask you if the amended voucher or abstract does not bear 
that number as well as every paper connected with the case ? — A. No, 
sir; the amended has a different number. The "amended" voucher 
(Exhibit 17) jon see here has "7166" while on here. Exhibit 16 (indicat- 
ing pencil marks on back of exhibits), on the " original," it is 6875, cor- 
responding with this number of the adjustment. 

Q. I want to call your attention to certain pencil figures on Exhibit 



106 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

17, the " amended," and on Exhibit 16, the "original" ; you see them, do 
you, sir? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I ask you if the pencil figures in each case do not represent the 
amount claimed in the written abstract ? — A. Well, this is the original, 
and the footings here (indicating bottom of columns) amounts to what I 
suppose is the footing of this (indicating the addition of the several 
sums). 

Q. That (the latter) is the aggregate of these amounts written in the 
columns, is it not ? — A. I think so. I will sum it up to see. Yes, sir; 
the aggregate is in that penciling. 

Q. Is not that also true of the iDcnciling in the ''amended" Form 63? — 
A. (Calculating.) Yes, sir ; that is the aggregate. 

. Q. I call your attention to an exhibit which I will put in, i)urporting 
to be a statement of account with Dr. Mott for the period extending 
from January 1, 1873, to March 31, 1873, as made by the Fifth Auditor, 
and ask you to turn over here to the difference and just read the " state- 
ment of differences." 

(Marked Exhibit 24.) 

No. 6875. ' 

Treasury Department, Fifth Auditor's Office, 

June 16th, 1873. 
I hereby certify that I have examined and adjusted au accouut between the United 
States and J. J. Mott, collector for the 6th district of North Carolina, from January 
1st, 1873, to March 31st, 1873, for salary, commissions, and expenses, and find him en- 
titled to credit as follows : 

By salary for said period, special allowance dated Aug. 16th, 1872. 750 00 

" amount deposited during said period $60,335 00 

" commissions on $ , at 3 per cent. $ 

" "■ $ , at 1 per cent. $ 

" " I , at -i per cent. $ 

" " I , at i per cent. $ 

" " I , at |- per cent., being amount of tax- 
paid stamps sold, under act of July 20, 1868, as pei books of 
coupons filed with the revenue account for said j)eriod $ . . 

" special allowance for expenses of office 1,325 00 

" stationery and blank books 

' ' postage 43 70 

" express and depositing money 

" advertising .' 

$2, 118 70 

I also find him chargeable as follows for amounts received from the collector acting 
as disbursing agent : 

^"^ commissions \ ^P®^^^^ allowance in lieu of 1, 911 00 

Note. — Expenses of administering office for said period as per Form 63, 
filed herewith : Deputies, $1,275.00 ; clerks, $450.00 ; rent, $60.00 ; fuel, $9.00 ; 

lights, $3.00; advert's, $ ; miscel., $ ; total, $1,797.00. 

Balance due the collector $207 70 

$2, 118 70 
The said balance to be carried to the credit of the collector as disbursing agent on 
the books of the Register of the Treasury. 

The accounts and vouchers are herewith transmitted for the decision of the Comp- 
troller thereon. 

J. H. ELA, Auditor. 
To the First Comptroller of the Treasury. 



THE SIXTH DISTEIOT OF NORTH CAKOLIXA. 107 

iStntemeiil of differe)icts. 

Balance claimed per account due collector ^007^0 

" found due per adjustment " " 207/0 

Difi'erence to collector's debit ^'^'^ "" 

Explained thus: 

Exijenses of office charged in «,< ^1,7J7 00 

" «' " credited herein, being limit of allowance. .. 1,325 00 

$472 00 

Fifth Auditor's Office, June 16, 1873. 
Examined and stated by- ^ ^ CLARKE. 

Comptroller's Office, Jnhi 7, 1873. 
Examined and reported by- ^^^^ ^ ^^^^^ 

Q. He mentions that the collector in his statement claims *(379.70 as 
due him, and the adiusting officer finds only $207.70 due, making a dif- 
ference in the collector's account of $472 from what he claimed. 

Q. HoAY is that explained in the account I— A. It is explained that 
he had put in vouchers for more than he was entitled to. 

Q. The expenses of the office amounted to how much ?— A. |1,707, 
the expenses of the office. 

Q. He was credited by the Fifth Auditor's Office with how much ?— 
A. He was credited with an expenditure of $1,325. 

Q. Which accounted for the difference of the $472, did it not^— 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now glance down at the bottom of the page and tell me wluit 
date that account was stated.— A. It was stated in the Fifth Au- 
ditor's Office June 10, 1873, and in the Comptroller's Office July 7, 1873. 

Q. I will ask you if it is not apparent that when that account was 
stated the amended voucher, showing the amount to be allowed, was 
cousidered by the clerk and by the Fifth Auditor in stating the ac- 
count!— A. I don't know that I understand your question. 

Q. I ask if it is not apparent, from the examination of the papers, that 
the amended abstract and original abstract were both considered by the 
clerk who stated that account for the Fifth Auditor, and who afterwards 
signed it ?— A. Theie is no evidence there that the amended voucher was 
ever considered. The allowance Avas considered, but no evidence that 
the amended voucher was cousidered at all. 

Q. See if the footings are not $1,347 in the amended voucher.— A. 
That was the allowance. 

Q. And exactly the footings in the amended voucher ?— A. The foot- 
ings in that voucher is just what the allowance was. 

Q. You can see it over there in pencil?— A. It was just the amount 
that was allowed. 

Q. What is the amount of the footings in that amended abstract of 
vouchers, as shown by the pencil marks there (indicating) ?— A. The 
amount of the footings is $1,347. 

Q. Now, what was the amount allowed? — A. $1,325. 

Q. I ask you if it is not evident, from an examination of these pa- 
pers, that tiie " amended " voucher or abstract was the one upon which 
the allowance was made— the final balance was stated instead of the 
original ?— A. From reference to that date when this amended voucher 
was sworn to, it is not evident, for the allowance was made, as stated here, 
in 1873, while the amended voucher was sworn to in 1874. 



108 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. You think, then, it was put in since? — A, Yes, sir. 

Q. Upon what basis was the $1,325 allowed ? — A. That was on the 
allowance made to the collector to run the district. The original bears 
date as "subscribed and sworn to this the 10th day of April, 1873 " ; the 
amended "subscribed and sworn to this the 21st day of September, 
1874." The adjustment bears date of the Fifth Auditor's Office, June 
16, 1873; and the Comptroller's Office, July 7, 1873. And it could not 
be possible for a paper made up in 1874 to be present and taken into 
consideration in adjusting an account in 1873. 

Q. I will ask you if a credit was not allowed upon the basis of the 
amended voucher? — A. The same allowance as called for there is made 
every quarter. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of the mode in which accounts are set- 
tled in the Fifth Auditor's Office? — A. I have not of my own direct 
knowledge. I have from hearsay; from what I have heard the Commis- 
sioner say, and other persons. 

Q. I ask you if it was not the duty, if you know — you may not know 
— of the clerk having charge of this account, when it was stated and 
allowed for $1,325 instead of $1,797, as claimed by Dr. Mott, to notify 
Dr. Mott of the difference, and in what it consisted ? — A. The clerk, as 
soon as settlement was made, transmitted that report to the collector 
at once. 

Q. He would tell him in substance, Dr. Mott, you claimed $679.70 due 
you. We say only $207.70 due; there is a difference of $472 between us 
and you. That difference is to be charged to the expenses of the office. 
On your original voucher is $1,797. We only give you credit for $1,325 ? 
— A. That is exactly what they say. 

Q. Was it not the duty, then, of the collector, and the right thing for 
him to do, to send an amended voucher in accordance with what they 
had allowed ? — A. Not necessary for him at all. It would be no evi- 
dence; no getting any credit on that account. 

Q. If it should turn out to be the fact that he did that, the presence 
of this voucher there at this time, and its absence when you looked, 
would be one evidence that the ordinary business course of the office 
had been completed? — A. As a matter of course, when the collector 
would submit his quarterly statement and the department refused to 
allow it, he would see at once he would have to foot it out of his own 
pocket or stop. 

Q. These officers having power over him and his disbursements, he 
would be apt to comply with their final order ? — A. He would be com- 
pelled to comply so far as that question was concerned. 

Q. And the proper thing for him to do would be to put in this 
amended voucher for what they had allowed him to run the district ? — 
A. That would not be necessary at all. 

Q. If not a necessary thing, it would not be improper ? — A. ]N"o, sir ; 
not improper. 

Q. And the presence of such an amended abstract or paper would be 
no evidence of any impropriety or anything wrong in that account? — 
A. Not if it contained the same names as the original did. 

Q. And if there was a name on the original, the amount claimed for 
him being absolutely thrown out, so that nothing was allowed for that 
individual, the absence of that name would not be any evidence of any- 
thing wrong ? — A. It depends somewhat upon the collector's arrange- 
ment. Now the department allows the collectors so much ; then they 
allowed them to make their own contracts. Later, since I left the ser- 
vice, they specify how many deputies etc., they shall employ. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 109 

Q. I (lou't care about the custom. I am speaking of the mode of 
stating an account and the absence of this amended abstract. I say if 
Mr. Brown had been paid according to the original voucher $100, and 
that amount was totally disallowed by the Fifth Auditor, and the col- 
lector was notified that that amount of $100 paid to Mr. Brown was dis- 
allowed, there would be nothing improper or out of the usual course of 
business for the collector to file an amended abstract, in which he would 
omit the name of Brown and the amount paid him ? — A. I don't know 
that there would, if he had paid that amount to Mr. Brown ; no neces- 
sity for it. The department just refused to allow it. 

Q. He might lose the $100 for that matter. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So far as the government was concerned, the balance would be 
the same balance ? — A. They make allowances sometimes during the 
year. The collectors try to get an allowance early in the year for the 
running of the district, where the salaries and commissions are not 
sufficient to meet the disbursements without an allowance. If they did 
not they liad to foot it. Mr. Wylie ran beyond his allowance one year 
and had to foot it directly out of his own pocket,' and I heard Mr. 
Henderson say, who came on and examined his accounts, he had more 
grit to him than most men. 

Q. What time was it vou examined these papers — this amended ab- 
stract there?— A. 1874. " 

Q. What time in 1874 ? — A. I think it was in September ; from some 
papers I have seen here, when examined before the referee, I thought it 
was in the spring or summer. I see it was in the fall. 

Q. This account, you see, was stated the 10th of June, '73, and re- 
ported 7th of July, 1873. — A. It was after that. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. Did you ever break up any illicit distilleries while in the service 
there under Dr. Mott? — A. I think I have. I did so much of that 
sort of work, one time or another, that I could not say how much was 
done in his service. 

Q. You call it "cutting up" an illicit distillery instead of breaking 
them up; that is the expression used? — A. I don't know any special 
phrase made use of. 

By the Chairman: 
Q. Breaking up the establishment and cutting up the still ! — A. The 
only term was " raising them." Up in Gaston and in Wilkes often used. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Did you ever break up or cut up any illicit distillery under Dr 
Mott?— A. I think I did. 

Q. Canyon recollect what one? — A. I don't recollect now; kept no 
record of such things. I recollect making a trip through Wilkes, Yad- 
kin, and upper end of Davie on that kind of expedition. What the re- 
sult of it was, don't remember now. 

Q. Did you ever ride by any illicit distillery, knowing it to be such, 
without breaking it up? — A. No, sir; I never did. 

J. S. Leonard sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman: 
Question. Where is your residence? — Answer. Statesville, N. C. 
Q. Were you ever in the service of the sixth revenue collection dis- 
trict? — A. Yes, sir. 



110 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. From when to when "? — A. It is so long ago can hardly tell you. 
I went in, I think, in the fall of '73, and quit in the early part of '75. 

Q. In what capacity were yon engaged "? — A. I was a ganger. 

Q. At what compensation? — A. It was according to the amount of 
work I did. 

Q. How much per day? — A. I was not paid by the day, but by the 
amount I gauged. 

Q. Did you resign, and when! — A. Yes, sir; I resigned. I think it 
was in the spring of '75; have forgotten almost; am certain it was early 
in that year. 

Q. Why did you resign? — A. I had several reasons for resigniDg. I 
did not have regular employment, was one thing ; another was, I was 
away from home more than I wanted to be; and another thing was the 
distillers wanted me to do things I could not do. 

Q. What did they want you to do ? — A. Wanted me to let them take 
liquor without tax-paying it. 

Q. Were there any other propositions made to you about dividing 
your pay ? — A. No, sir; I don't think there was; don't remember that 
there was. They even told me they thought the gangers ought to do 
them favors or pay theui well for their board ; the distillery always paid 
nothing, which was unreasonable. 

Q. The distillers said that ?— A. Yes, sir ; sometimes intimated such 
things. 

Q. What did Dr. Mott say to you, when you were first appointed, 
about your pay ? — A. He asked me to take a position at $50 a month, and 
said it might be over that ; that some mouey was needed for some pur- 
pose, I don't remember what, and all that might be over that, if I was 
willing, was to be used for some pnrjDose. 

Q. He asked you if you would be willing for all of your office-pay over 
$50 to go to some purpose you now don't remember? — A. No, sir; he 
asked me if willing to work for $50 ; don't remember the words ; some- 
thing to that effect. 

Q. W^hat did your office yield you? — A. I don't know; when I had 
regular employment, between $75 and $100, clear of expenses, I think. 

Q. You say you were a portion of your time out of employment. Have 
you had regular emplojmient? — A. I was employed regularly for awhile. 
The doctor told me he had more gangers than he had work for, and 
would have to drop me awhile, and did so. After that I was assigned 
to, I think, three distilleries, some time after I had been idle, away up in 
the mountains, or the up-country. I heard that one had stopped, and 
another was going to stop in a few days, and I told him I did not want 
to go to the third one, as it would not pay me to go to one, so he sent 
some one else. 

Q. Were you ever called upon for contributions for political purposes ? 
A. Yes, sir ; I think I was, a time or two. 

Q. Did you contribute? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much? — A. I don't remember ; I think about $10 at a time. 

Q, How many times ? — A. I don't remember that ; notmorethan twice, 
I don't think. 

Q. You went out in '75 ? — A. Yes, sir; to the best of my recollection. 

Q. What distiller was it that told you that you ought to divide with 
him ? — A. I don't know that either one did directly ; they often talked 
to me about what pay we got, and we ought to favor them all we can. 
Mr. Elijah Oline told me he thought I ought to leave the cistern key 
with him. He said, "They would not trust me, nor the storekeeper 
would not trust him. Damn such a government.'' 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. Ill 

Q. He wanted you to leave the cistern-room key with him f — A. To 
leave the cistern-room key. I told him I conld not do that. He never 
charged me an unreasonable price for board. 

Q. Do you know whether any others had been in the habit of leaving 
the keys ? — A. I think I took up the keys of one or two distilleries when 
I started around, from the storekeepers. 

Q. From whom did you take up the key ? — A. 1 think I took it up from 
Dr. L. W. Tate ; he was at A. J. Smith's distilleiy. [ think he had re- 
ceived the cistern-room key; am certain he had. 

Q. You say Tate had it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was he not entitled to it ? — A. No, sir ; the g-auger. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. What was Tate? 

The Chairman. He was a storekeeper. 

The Witness. I know I took up one key if not more; not certain. I 
think at A. J. Smith's the storekeepers kept the key of the warehouse, 
and the ganger kept the key of the receiving-cistern room ; at that time 
there was a storekeeper and a ganger to each distillery. 

Q. Do you know anything about the dividing of stills, one large one 
into smaller ones ? — A. No, sir ; I don't. 

Q. That had not been done when yon left in '75 ? — A. Nothing of that 
kind that I know of. 

Cross-examination hj Mr. Pool: 

Q. Did you agree to let all over the $oO go to the purpose indicated 
by Dr. Mott ?— A. 1 think so. 

Q. Did you ever pay it t — A. No, sir ; after I went into the service. I 
did not know anything about the revenue service, what was legal or ille- 
gal. I was not called on, and drew what I was entitled to, and never 
said anything to Dr. Mott or he to me about it. 

Q. Eeally you did not pay it ?— A, No, sir. 

Q. All you have contributed to party purposes was the $10 twice ? — 
A. About that amount ; yes, sir. 

Q. And you were in the service about two years ? — A. No, sir; 1 was 
in the service over a year, I think; perhaps eighteen months. 

Q. And you were kept very constantly engaged, assigned somewhere 
all the time ? — A. The last four or live months, I think, I had but very 
little work. I don't remember how long I was idle. At first I had work 
as much as I wanted. 

Q. You discharged your duties faithfully and honestly while you 
worked ? — A. Tried to do it. 

Q. You were not turned out, but resigned ? — A. I resigned willingly. 

Q. Dr. Mott did not request your resignation? — A. No, sir; he told 
me if I wanted to resign it was all right, and he would give me a place 
again if I wanted it, I think he said. 

Q. And your reason for resigning was that it kept you away from 
home too much? — A. One reason. 

Q. And it was disagreeable to be engaged in such a business? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And then you had some importunities now and then from distil- 
lers to do things you did not want to do ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was another reason, and taking all the reasons together you 
resigned voluntarily, of your own accord? — A. Yes, sir; it is certain I 
resigned of my own accord. 

Q. And you had assurances of work — to go back at some time after- 



112 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

wards ? — A. I think lie told me so — that I could have a place again if 
I asked for it. 

Q. Do you recollect the purpose Dr. Mott indicated the money was 
to be applied to? — A. No, sir; I don't; it seems to me that he said — 
but not positive about that — that there was some money needed to as- 
sist some editors. 

Q. For political purposes 1 — A. Yes, sir ; I think so ; I suppose it 
was. 

Q. But he really never called for it, and you never paid it ? — A. He 
never asked me about it at all. 

Q. And you discharged your duties as a faithful officer, resigning of 
your own accord ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you had an assurance that if you wanted to come back you 
could come ? — A . I think he told me he would give me a place again if 
I wanted it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You made out your bills for the full amount due you? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. When you found out what your rights were under the law for dis- 
tilleries ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever have any idea why you did not get any work towards 
the last part of your ajipointment ? — A. I don't know what was the rea- 
son. I thought perhaps Dr. Mott thought I was a little contrary, as 
I would not go to one distillery, but one assigned to me, and that would 
not pay me to go. He told me I ought to be glad to get it ; that other 
gangers would take it. I told him to let them have it. 

Q. Have you not assigned as a reason for not getting any work that 
you wonld not accede to, or comply with these terms the distillers wanted ? 
— A. No, sir ; I don't think that I ever have. 

Q. You never gave that as a reason ? — A. No, sir ; I think not. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Dr. Mott did towards the latter part offer to send you to one, two, 
or three distilleries as a ganger, and you declined to go to them ? — A. 
Yes, sir; the last distillery I was assigned to. I was not assigned to 
three ; I understood him to say three. I heard that day one stopped, 
and another was to stop in a few days. 

Q. And then that you were not assigned was not Dr. Mott's fault, 
but you did not go to the distilleries in the latter part of your time; 
he did name the distilleries he wanted to assign you to, but you were 
not satisfied with them 1 — A. Yes, sir; that was the last assignment I 
had. 

Q. He was trying to assign you ? — A. I would not go — did not want 
to go, at least. 

Adjourned till Wednesday, June 28, 10 a. m. 



WASHINGTON, D. C, June 28, 1882. 

The committee met at 10 a. m. 

The following witnesses were introduced and examined for Dr. J. J. 
Mott, ex-collector of the sixth internal-revenue district, North Carolina: 

M. G. Campbell sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Statesville, N C. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 113 

Q. What is your age? — A. Tweuty-nine years old. 

Q. How long have you been residing in Statesville ? — A. About seven 
or eight years, I believe. 

Q. That is since about 1874? — A. I think I came there about the first 
of 1874. 

Q. What business are you engaged in tliere ? — A. Merchandising. 

Q. Are you acquainted, generally, with the people around that sec- 
tion ? — A. Yes, sir ; generally acquainted. 

Q. Have you been much over this sixth collection district ? — A. Not 
very much, except Iredell County and adjoining counties. 

Q. Have you observed the general condition, to any extent, of affairs 
connected with the collection of internal revenue around that district, 
or have you heard of itf — A. Well, all that I have heard — I have never 
beard anything wrong in any way, at least I do not know anything from 
niy own personal knowledge. 

Q. Do you know that some six or seven years ago there was a great 
deal of disturbance in the community, and trouble about blockading, 
and arrests of blockaders, and about matters connected with the resist- 
ii^jce of the revenue law ! — A. Yes, sir; there was a great deal of block- 
ading going on in that district. 

Q. That was six or seven years ago? — A. Yes, sir; a good deal more 
than now. 

Q. Were there a great many arrests made! — A. Yes, sir; a great 
many were made. 

Q. Was there a good deal of public disturbance among the commu- 
nities over the district from that cause ?— A. Yes, sir ; I think there was. 

Q. That is not so much the case now ? — A. Not near so much block- 
ading up in this district, I do not think. 

Q. There seems to be a better state of public feeling generally? — A 
Yes, sir ; a great deal better. 

Q. There are fewer illicit distilleries ? — A. I do not think there are 
near so many as some years ago. 

Q. How do you attribute the change for the better in the last few 
years ? — A. I can hardly tell you, unless it was the raiding force that 
they had in the district there that put it down. 

Q. Do you know whether Dr. Mott has been diligent in trying to im- 
prove the condition of affairs in the district ? — A. I think he has. 

Q. What you hear others say, and what is generally reported by 
everybody looking on and observing; that you have a right to say here. 
— A. I think that is the general impression. 

Q. That he has exerted himself to improve the affairs of the district, 
and has succeeded? — A. Yes, sir; in the revenue business, and in put- 
ting down blockading. 

Q. And he has succeeded in improving it to a very great extent ? — A. 
I suppose that is the cause of it. It is improved a good deal, anyway. 

Q. Do you not hear your customers and others with whom you come 
In contact in the district, speak of Dr. Mott's administration of the in- 
ternal revenue in that way ? — A. Yes, sir ; often. 

Q. Does there seem to be ai)ublic and general impression in the com- 
munity on the subject, whether the distri(^t is im])roved, and he is a good, 
honest collector, and has done his duty ? — A. The iieneral impression is 
lie is a good collector and has done his duty. I think that is the gen- 
eral impression. 

Q. What is Dr. Mott's general character in the community there as a 
man ? — A. His general character is good ; very good. 
Q. You mean for integrity ? — A. Yes, sir. 
S. Mis. 116 8 



1 



114 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Morality ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. All tliat makes up a good and reliable citizen '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Does he stand very high in that regard ? — A. He stands very high 
sir, 

Q. Do you know any one who entertains a different opinion from the^ 
one you are now exj)ressing of him in that respect ? — A. He has a few 
enemies in that district. I have heard them speak to the contrary. 

Q. Were they men of equal standing with Dr. Mott °? — A. I do not: 
know. He has many enemies there of very high standing; some tew of; 
different political opinions from him. 

Q. Do you know whether that enmity is of a political i^arty character — 
connected with politics? — A. Yes. sir; I think so. 

Q. Has Dr. Mott been an active working Eepublican in that district? 
— A. Yery much so; he has been a very active politician. 

Q, You know he is chairman of the State committee of the Eepubli- 
can party f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And has been for several years; I mean for some years back? — A» 
Yes, sir; I have forgotten how long now, when he was put in. 

Q. Let me ask you, as we have got your general statement — you say 
there was a good deal of resistance to the collection of internal revenue 
from illicit distillers, and things of that kind, and there was some en- 
mity to Dr. Mott as a politician and an active party manager — what 
Las been the course of the opposite party in regard to the internal reve- 
nue generally, in their intercourse with the people, and in their speeches 
to the people, and everything else? — A. The Democratic party is always 
Tunning the revenue department down in every way they can. 

Q. Denouncing it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Denouncing the law itself? — A. Prettj^ generally. 

Q. And denouncing the manner of its execution? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Denouncing the officers who execute it? — A. Pretty generally; 
not so much so now as a few years ago. 

Q. Has the course of the Democratic party managers in that district 
in their appeals to the people raised a popular sentiment against the 
collection of the revenue there? — A. Yes, sir; that has been the case. 

Q. And one calculated to obstruct Dr. Mott and his officers and em- 
barrass them in their duties? — A. Yes, sir; a few years ago it was very 
much so. 

Q. You say that Dr. Mott has managed to make all that less, or some- 
body has? — A. Some one has been the cause of it. He has been the 
collector and has control of the revenue business, and is a leading poli- 
tician there. 

Q. Do you know that in recent years he has been appointing some 
Democrats to office in that country? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That seems to give some satisfaction to the Democrats in the dis- 
trict? — A. I cannot say as to that. 

Q. At any rate the denunciation of him and his officers, the law, and 
the execution of the law, has become less? — A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. Since there has been a diminution or lessening of this denuncia- 
tion on the part of the party politicians down there, has the state of 
public feeling become more favorable? — A. I think so; yes, sir. 

Q. And the obstruction and embarrassment to Dr. Mott and his offi- 
cers has become less? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There has been a general improvement in that regard? — A. A 
general improvement, I think. 

Q. Could you state from your own knowledge, and from what you 
liear from reliable men in the district with whom you come in contact^ 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 115 

whether some years ago (say six or eight years ago) it was safe for an 
mternal-reveune otticer to go unarmed and unattended about from j^lace 
to place in portions of that district? — A. I have heard it was not safe. 

Q. Do you know of some of them being fired upou and shot ? — A. I 
have known several to be shot, at least three or four. 

Q. Tliat was some years ago ? — A. Some four or five or six years ago.. 

Q. 3)o you think it is now safe for them to go about from i^lace to 
place? — A. I think it is, unless it is in the extreme western part of the 
district — the South Mountains, as they call them. 

Q. Do you think the disposition of violent men to attack officers, 
making it unsafe for them to go around, was caused or encouraged by 
the course of the politicians in that district? — A. That had a great deal 
to do Avith it. 

Q. Have you been in any of the State courts when \iolators of the 
revenue laws have been indicted and put upon trial? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you state the manner in which witnesses were treated by 
counsel and the courts ; were they denounced or not ? State anything 
you know about it ? — A. I have heard some of them denounced by the 
attorneys. 

Q. More so than in ordinary cases of prosecution? — A. Well, yes^ 
sir; more so than ordinarily in our courts there and other courts. 

Q. Denounced as revenue officers and stigmatized because they were? 
revenue officers? — A. Yes, sir; the revenue officers have been abused 
there a good deal. 

Q. I am going back some five or six years, shortly after you went to 
the district. Was it not a common thing for revenue officers to be 
taunted and insulted upon the streets wherever met by persons in that 
community? — A. Yes, sir; about eight years ago, when 1 first came to 
Statesville. 

Q. There seemed to be a general disposition on the part of a portion 
of the people in that district to belittle them ? — A. Yes, sir; to make 
remarks about them as they passed along the street. 

Q. Of an insulting character? — A. Yes, sir; I heard that several 
years ago. It is not that way now, the revenue department has got 
to be more respectable now. 

Q.. Would it have been safe for revenue officers to have resented such 
insults ? — A. I do not believe it would at that time. 

Q. The objection was so strong to the revenu<' officers that they had 
to submit to insult and every embarrassment and obstruction thrown 
in their way ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. All of which has been greatly changed now ? — A. A good deal in 
onr community, and I think all over the district, especially in our county. 

Q. Is it not the general impression that Dr. Mott, by his conciliatory 
and upright course and his liigh character, has brought about that re- 
sult, or in a manner contributed to it? — A. I think so; that has had a 
great deal to do with it. 

Q. Is the character of the officers he has under him generally good? — 
A. Most of them, I think, are good. 

Q. You hear tloating rumors and reports about misconduct on the 
part of Dr. Mott and his officers, of course ? — A. I have heard that, 
rumored around. 

Q. State whether you know yourself of any official misconduct on the 
part of Dr. Mott in the last eight years, since you have been there? — 
A. I do not know of anything of my own personal knowledge. 

Q. Did you ever hear any respectable man say that he kucAv, of his own 
personal knowledge, the truth of these things? — A. I do not know. I 



116 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

have not heard any one say they knew themselves. They would speak 
of it if you would ask them, but that they did not know anything them- 
selves. 

Q. You mean such things as storekeepers dividing their pay with dis- 
tillers^ — A. No, sir. 

Q. You have heard that?— A. I have heard it. 

Q. I am just getting at the character of the rumors going around — 
that these officers were compelled, whether willing or not, to contribute 
to campaign purposes ? — A. I have heard that. 

Q. And that he drew money from the Treasury and did not pay it 
over to his officers'? — A. 1 have heard that they had to contribute a large 
amount for something — camj)aign purposes. 

Q. You have heard rumors of that kind f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were those rumors more rife during the campaign and in election 
times greater? — A. More talked about then ; yes, sir. 

Q. You say that you do not recollect ever hearing a man say that he 
knew the truth of these things of his own knowledge? — A. I have 
heard a lew storekeepers say they contributed the amount of a check, 
$l(Uor|108. 

Q. You heard that, but they did not say they were compelled to do 
it ? — A. I never heard them say they were compelled to do it. 

Q. Have these rumors been growing less in the last three or four 
years? — A. Yes, sir; since before the last presidential election. 

Q. Does the community seem to be giving less credit to such rumors ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; I think so. 

Q. They are dying out? — A. Dying out to a great extent. 

Q, They would not, then, be so likely to have so much effect as usual 
in the coming election ? — A. I think not, sir. 

Q. Do you not know that several years ago hotel-keepers and others 
were disposed to charge these revenue officers very high prices, more 
than what they would other people — out through the country, I mean ? 
— A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. Have you heard it frequently so stated ? — A. I have heard those 
revenue officers speak of it when traveling through the country. I 
do not know that it was the case there in our town. 

Q. I am not speaking of your town particularly, but outside. — A. I 
liave heard them speak of it frequently that they charged them very 
heavy. 

Q. They found difficulty in getting a place to stop at? — ^A. Yes, sir; 
I have heard them speak of that often. 

Q. That is not so much the case now ? — A. Not near so much so now. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q, You spoke of having been some time in Statesville. You are a 
native of the State? — A. Yes, sir; I was raised twenty miles from there. 

Q. You were asked what you had heard about the cessation of block- 
adiiig and illicit distilling; that you had heard there was a great deal 
less of it and no resistance. To the suggestion of Mr. Pool, yoii said it 
was attributable to Dr. Mott's conciliation, good conduct, prudence, and 
all that sort of thing. — A. I did not say it was altogether so. I sup- 
posed so. Something was the cause of it. 

Q. Have you not also heard, on the other side, that distilling was so 
arranged that it was cheaper and better for a man to still regularly 
than it was to " blockade " ? — A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. Have you not heard that, owing to a man's being allowed to run a 
little still of 3^ to 4 bushels, and have a storekeeper to divide his pay 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA, 117 

with bim, that it is clieaper than to run the risk of blockading and being 
caught? — A, I suppose it would be. 

Q. Have you heard those things ? — A. I have heard ofteu that the store- 
keepers divided their wages. I heard that mostly from everybody that 
is in that couutry, but do not know anything of it uiyself. 

Q. Of course you do not profess to know only what was said, and the 
rumors — what the people spoke of, etc. Was it not the general under- 
standing there that the blockaders were sort of bought oft", by being- 
allowed to put up these small distilleries, getting good terms from the 
storekeepers, and so on ? — A. I do not think 1 ever heard that was the 
general understanding. 

Q. What kind of merchandising are you engaged in ? — A. Groceries.. 

Q, Are you dealing in grain! — A. Yes, sir; I have been. 

Q. Do you ever supply distillers with grain ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever receive in pay for grain for these distillers, any checks 
of the storekeepers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How often? — A. I think I received three checks 5 probably as 
much as three. 

Q. Could you give the name of the storekeepers whose checks you 
received in payment of grain for the distillers? — A. I think I received 
two from J. M. tShaver and one from R. C. Bowles. 

Q. Do you mean they were distillers or storekeepers'? — A. Store- 
keepers. 

Q. Did that excite any suspicion in your mind that the storekeeper 
had an interest in the distillery? — A. It was run, the place that Shaver 
had, was run in the name of Dobson. Dobson came and made the 
trade with me. 

Q. For the corn ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And so he paid it by the storekeeper's check! — A. The store- 
keepers gave me the check. 

Q. And that did not occur more than twice? — A. I think not, sir. 

Q. Do you know of its being done with any other merchants besides 
yourself? — A. No, I do not. 

Q. You spoke of Dr. Mott having no enemies except political ones ? — 
A. No, I did not say that. 

Q. Mr. Pool suggested it, and I thought you assented to it. I was 
going to ask you if the strongest enemies he had were not in his own 
party ? — A. Well, there are a few revenue men there that have been 
turned out for some cause, I do not know what, that seemed to be ene- 
mies of his. 

Q. Do you not know that there are some men not in the revenue de- 
partment, who are enemies of his also? — A. Republicans *? 

Q. Y«'S, Republicans. — A. I do not know; probably Mr. Henry Co wles, 
w^ho is at Statesville is, about all I know. 

Q. You know whether he is or not ? You say " probably ". Do you not 
know ? — A. I hav e heard so. 

Q. Do you not know a good many out of town who are influential 
men in the Republican party? — A. I do not know as I do, right around 
there. 

Q. You said that most of this resistance — you did not use the word 
"resistance" — illicit blockading and distilling and resistance to the laws, 
was the result of the Democratic politicians denouncing the revenue olfl- 
cers and laws on the stump? — A. JSTo, I did not say that. 

Q. Just give us your own idea about it. How was that? — A. They 
picked up this sort of stufl' to make capital out of it, and talked about 
it a great deal. 



118 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Do YOU tbiiik tliat that induced men to violate the hiw? — A. 1 
think it did. A few years ago the revenue business was so abused by 
the opposite party that it had a tendency to make the x^eople have no 
respect for the revenue law nor the olticers, and I think probably it 
had something' to do in encouraging blockading. 

Q. Half or at least a large portion of those accused of violating the 
laws were Eepublicaus, were they not! — A. 1 think not. 

Q. What proportion of them do you think were, at a guess? — A. I 
oannot tell you; I have not thought anything about that. 

Q. You spoke of its being safe now, you thought, for a man to go 
through any part of the district — the revenue officers — except it might 
be in the South Mountains. Do you not know tliat the South Mount- 
ains is a strong Eepublican region? — A. I do not know. I have never 
been up there in Burke County. I believe Burke County has been 
^oing Democratic. 

Q. The county has; but has not the South Mountain country gone 
strongly Eepublican? — A. That is all I know about it; all I can go by 
is the election in the county. I have never been in the country myself. 

Q. You do not know anything about it, then, and you think that 
nearly all the people that have violated the law are Democrats 1 — A. I 
did not say that; I do not know; in facr, most of the blockading has 
been in Wilkes County, and those upper counties, Burke and those 
western counties. 

Q. Is not Wilkes County a Eepublican county? — A. It is very close 
in Wilkes. I think, at the last election, it was entitled to two members 
of the house, and there was one Eepublican and one Democrat elected. 

Q. Then the Eepublicaus had probably half of the blockaders '? — A. I 
do not know. 

Q. Do you not know that Mr. Bryan ran for the legislature there a 
few years ago, and boasted on the stump that he had been a blockader, 
and called upon the people to come up and look upon a "he-block- 
ader"? — A. I do not recollect that. 

Q. Did 3"ou not hear that he said it ? — A. I do not think I ever beard it. 

Q. What are your own politics ? — A. I am a Eepublican. 

Q. How miTch have you heard — to what extent has the rumor pre- 
vailed, that the storekeepers divided their pay with the distillers? — A. 
It is talked about a great deal ; I have heard it often. 

Q. Now, as a matter of course, if a storekeeper did divide his pay 
with the distiller, that would be a sign that he was granting other 
favors to the distiller, would it not? — A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. A sign that he was under the distiller's influence? — A. I do not 
know that it would. 

Q. Have you heard frequentlj' of the distillers carrying their own 
keys'?— A. No, sir; I know nothing about that; that would not be 
talked of much ; I never heard that. 

Q. Have you heard of many instances where storekeepers would leave 
the distillery during the time it was running and go off? — A. I do ifot 
know that I have heard that, sir, without tlieir leaving some one in the 
place. They go oft' right often occasionally, but generally leave some 
one to do their work while thej^ are absent. 

Q. What have j'ou heard about distillers charging storekeepers big 
prices for board ? — A. I have heard storekeepers speak of paying ex- 
travagant ]3rices for board — as much, some of theiu, as $20, I believe, a 
month. 

Q. What would be the usual prices for board in the country, not in 
the town ? — A. I suppose about $8 or $10; the usual price 



TIIK SlXril DISTUICT OF NOiiTll CAROLINA. 119 

Q. Wliiit hiivo, v<m hcanl siboiit these politiciil coiitributions ?— A. 

IJvomeeis? ■ , , ^ 

Q. Yes; luivinj;- to eontribute?— A. Yes; I luive liciird a. great many 

of tliem say tliat tliey coi»tril)iite(l a check of |L04 or $108. 
Q. For a month's wages?— A. Yes, sir. 
Q. Was it your uiulersta-ndiiig that that was general ; that the. otucers 

had to dance" up to that?— A. I tiiinlc most of theiu; L have heard so; 

I do not know\ 

C^ What is the general understanding about that as to wliether all 
did it?— A. My understanding was tiia-t most of tiieui did, i believe. 

Q, Have yoii heard of an.v being turned out of ollice because they did 
not contribute?— A. I do not think 1 ever did. 

Q. You never heard any of them say that was the reason they were 
turned (mtf— A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know what purpose the money was ai>plied to, that was 
raised in 'that way ?— A. 1 do not; 1 do not know anything about it 
myself. 

Q. Did you hear of many Republicans around there givnig as Ingh as 
a hundred' dollars a nu)nth who di<l not have any oflice?— A. No; I do 
not know as 1 did. 1 never lu'ard how much they gave. 

Q. Did you ever hear of Republicans giving anything at all except 
those in ollice ?— A. I do not know ; it is my impression they did ; 1 can- 
not say now, 

Q. Was it not the understanding there tiiat that newspaper, tii-- 
Statesville American, is supported by these contributions ?— A. 1 di 
not thiidc that I ever heard that. 

Q. The editor was a storekeeper, was he not ?— A. He was a general 
storekeei)er— K. 15. J)rake, I think, sir. 

Q. Did you ever kiu)w of his doing any business as a general store- 
keeper ?— A. Oh, yes, 1 have noticed him going out frequently. 

Q. doing out?— A. Yes, sir. 

i). You do not know where he was going to ?— A. I understood that 
vas his business. 

Q. The <listilleries around Statesville were not in his department, were 
they ?— A. I do not know. They are not now ; I do not know whether 
thev ever have been or not. 

Q. Do you know svhere his department extended, and what it was :— 
A. 1 do i"u»t believe 1 can tell you. 

Q. You have seen him frcHpiently riding off, and understood that was 
his business there?— A. Yes, sir. 

C^ How often did vou ever see him do that; as often as (Mice a 
month?— A. L canuot'tell you how often; 1 did not take any notice. 

Q. He did not seem to be employed actively every day on anything 
of that kind ?— A. I think not, at least not from town every day. 

By Mr. Pool : 
^. Wh(> is the editor of the Statesville American ?— A. E. B. Drake, 

1 believe. , . , i i 

Q. How old a man is he?— A. I suppose he is nearly sixty years old. 

Q. How long has he been editor of that paper?— A. A great many 
years; I do not remember; I do not know how long. 

Q. He is a man of high character ?- A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For integrity ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And general worth as a citizen?— A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. And reliability ?— A. A reliable, good citizen. 



120 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. He is a gentlemanly man in his bearing and in all his relations ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear it alleged that Mr, Drake neglected his duties 
as a general storekeeper ? — A. I do not know that I did, sir. I have 
heard a storekeeper or two speak of doing his work off some distance 
from town, his home. 

Q. You have gone over, in the cross-examination, these rumors a little 
more in detail than I drew them out. Did these rumors derogatory to 
Dr. Mott's administration of affairs come from the members of the Dem- 
ocratic party ? — A. Yes, sir ; generally, I think. 

Q. And were more rife during election times ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you ever take much part in elections yourself? — A. No, sir; 
not very much. 

Q. Have these rumors affected Dr. Mott's standing or character at 
all? — A. I think not, sir. 

Q. If they were generally credited, really they would have affected 
his character, would they not? — A. Yes, sir; I think they would; not 
noticed there in that country much. 

Q. You think his high character has not been in any degree affected 
by the rumors circulated in this way ? — A. I think not, sir. 

Q. Would you draw from that the conclusion, that i)eople did not be- 
lieve the rumors really? — A. Well, sir, I do not think they are believed 
there as a general rule; probably some people believe them. 

Q. During the eight years you have been doing business in Statesville 
you have received in payment of grain the checks of storekeepers three 
times; that is, three checks, two from one man and one from another? — 
A. Yes, sir; that is all the checks I ever received. 

Q. Have you not heard of anybody else having received them in the 
same way? — A. I think not. 

Q. How much were those checks for — I mean each one ? — A. Seventy- 
two or seventy-five dollars, I think. 

Q. About that each? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were these checks of the storekeepers negotiable, and passed 
around from hand to hand on being indorsed, like a bank check? — A» 
Yes, sir. 

Q. A man would cash a check for a storekeeper, and would then own 
it, and pass it around from hand to hand? — A. Very often the store- 
keepers got the merchants to cash the checks for them. 

Q. This check, then, would belong to the merchant? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The merchant can buy what he x)leases with it, if anybody takes 
it from him ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Among the denunciations against the revenue and revenue officers; 
in the district was one — I mean at one time some years ago — that they 
did not allow men tohave small stills, so that the poor j)eople could dis- 
till? — A. I think that was stopped a few years ago. 

Q. I mean that some years ago did they not denounce the revenue 
and its administration because it did not allow small distilleries, so that 
a poor man could distill?— A. I cannot answer that question. 

Q. Yoii spoke of Mr. Oowles as being a Republican; what Cowles is- 
that?— A. H. 0. 

Q. Does he reside in Statesville ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You spoke of his being an enemy of Dr. Mott within the Republican 
party? — A. I have heard so. 

Q. Do you not know that Cowles has been seeking the office that Dr. 
Mott holds, for some time past? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you not know that he has ransacked the district to get support ^ 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 121 

and to get up evidence against Dr. Mott and his officers, so as to smirch 
them in the department? — A. I have heard so. 

Q. Did you hear that Cowles, in his efforts to get Dr. Mott's place, and 
to get up such things against him in this department to tura out Dr. 
Mott, offered tenus to officers and better places under him, if he could 
get the place of collector himself? — A. I do not know that I ever heard 
that. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Was it not Mr. Cooper that Mr. Cowles was getting up evidence- 
against, and not Dr. Mott ? — A. I think both. 

Tyre Glenn sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. What is your age ? — Answer. Twenty-seven. 

Q. Where do you reside? — A. In Yadkin County, North Carolina. 

Q. Is that in the Sixth collection district? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you born and brought up there? — A. Yes, sir; I was bora 
right there in Yadkin. 

Q. Were you ever engaged in the revenue service ? — A. Yes, sir ; I 
am at present engaged in it. 

Q. How long have you been engaged in it? — A. I was appointed in 
March, 1878 ; I was not assigned to duty until the following October y 
I think the 22d day of October, 1878, I entered on duty as storekeeper 
at a distillery, and staid at that distillery then until the July following,, 
either the 30th or the 31st, and then was reassigned to that distillery 
about the 2d of December, 1879. I staid at that one until about the 
27th of April, 1881; then I was assigned to another distillery at same 
place, the successor of the one I was working for before. I remained 
there until about the 19th day of June, 1881. Then I went into the col- 
lector's office at Statesville and remained there until the 1st day of last 
June ; then I went to Yadkin County as deputy collector. 

Q. Are you well acquainted around through the district ? — A. I am 
acquainted in Yadkin more than in any other county; not very well 
acquainted outside of Yadkin ; acquainted some in Iredell. I staid there 
twelve months, in Statesville. 

Q. You are brought into contact with intelligent men from the various 
portions of the district ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Y^ou converse with them on the subject of the revenue ? — A. Yes, 
sir; I talk with them freel^^ on the subject. 

Q. Can you state anything in regard to illicit distilling some years 
ago? — A. i remember about 1875 and 1876. That is as far back as I re- 
member much about it. 

Q. W^hat was the condition of the district then ?— A. There was a 
great deal of blockading. 

Q. You mean by blockading, illicit distilling and sales of unstamped 
whisky? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was a great deal of it going on? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What sort of efforts were being made to put it down ? — A. It seems 
to me that every effort that was possible to be made was done. They 
made raids into the county of Yadkin and destroyed the stills. 

Q. Did the United States marshal ever go in force into the district ?" 
A. Yes, sir ; the United States marshal did. 

Q. And made arrests ? — A. Frequently made arrests in Yadkin. 

Q. There was a great deal of disturbance in the community generally 



122 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

on account of such things ? — A. Yes, sir ; a great deal of disturbance 
throughout the country. 

Q. Did the people seem to be dissatisfied ? — A. Yes, sir ; seemed to 
Ibe dissatisfied. I often heard them express themselves, that they had 
^ right to do what they pleased with what belonged to them. It seemed 
hard to them to have their property destroyed. 

Q. They had a right to distill their own corn ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That seemed to be the sentiment out among the people of the dis- 
trict? — A. That sentiment was i;)retty general. 

Q. Was it encouraged by the politicians through the district? — A. I 
don't know but what it was ; think it was. I think that the people got 
that kind of encouragement from their public speeches. 

Q. Did these speeches take ground against the revenue laws, de- 
nouncing them ? — A. Yes, sir ; denounced them. 

Q. As oppressive to the ])eople?^A. Yes; very oppressive; called 
us " Still-house nosers." 

Q. Denounced the revenue officers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And called them by hard names? — A. Called them by some very 
hard names. 

Q. What were the opprobrious epithets applied to them I — A. Gov- 
ernor Vance called them " Eed-legged grasshoppers." 

Q. And the system of canvassing there on the stump was to denounce 
the revenue law and the ofiicers ? — A. Yes, sir ; I suppose no kind of 
doubt about that by anybody. 

Q. Did you ever hear anybody denounce Dr. Mott in person 1 — A. 
;No, sir; I never heard any one denounce Dr. Mott. I have heard citi- 
zens, some people, talk about the doctor, who did not like him. They 
did not denounce so much him as the revenue officers in general. 

Q. Was it safe on this ground for the revenue officers to go unat- 
tended and unarmed through portions of that district ? — A. We had 
raiders who made it their business to cut up these distilleries. I think 
it was unsafe for them. 

Q. Were they frequently shot at, and some of them shot ? — A. Shot 
at frequently ; I think there was a man by the name of Charlie Crump- 
ler shot in Wilkes County. That was the rumor I heard. There was 
also a man by the name of A. B. Gillespie who was shot, and I have 
been told by the ofi&cers that right up on the South Mountains they are 
frequently shot at, though none hurt. I think a horse was killed on one 
occasion. 

Q. Do you think that that resistance to the execution of the laws was 
in anj^ respect owing to the course pursued by the politicians on the 
stump ? — A. I think it was very much encouraged by them. Of course 
there was a disposition upon the part of blockaders to evade and to 
resist also, and I should think that the speeches made would excite 
them, and be calculated to make them offer resistance. 

Q. Did you hear, in addition to that, these rumors, that have been re- 
ferred to here, circulating through the district ? — A. Which rumors ? 

Q. The dividing between storekeepers and distillers f — A. Oh, yes, ^ir ; 
I have heard these rumors. 

Q. And charges of corruption on the part of the officers of the reve- 
nue ? — A. Yes, sir. I have heard some speakers denounce the store- 
keepers and distillers both, accusing them of dividing. 

Q. That accusation was made on the stump of corruption on the part 
of the officers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was not that also calculated to prejudice the minds of the people 
of the community against them ? — A. Yes, sir. 



TIIK SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 123 

Q. Was not all this calculated to embarrass Dr. Mott in theadmiuistra- 
tioii of bis office ? — A. Of course it was. 

Q. And to obstruct the proper administration of the collection of the 
internal revenue? — A. Of course it was calculated to embarrass Uim. 

i). That was fiA'e or six years ago? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has the matter improved since then ? — A. Tliere has been consid- 
erable imju'OA'ement in the revenue service there ; not the number of illi- 
cit distilleries now ; there used to be a great many running in my county, 
Yadkin, On one occasion, 1 think in 187(5, there was a raid made in there, 
\)y a special force, and about twenty distilleries destroyed in one town- 
ship. I don't think there are any blockade distilleries running in that 
■county now. I don't know of any. 

Q. Can you give any estimate of how many illicit distilleries Dr. Mott 
has had destroyed since he has been there ? — A. 1 have not the slightest 
idea. 

Q. Do you think they could be counted by the hundreds ? — A. Yes, 
.sir; could be counted by the hundreds very easily. 

Q. Until he finally succeeded in breaking them up, or breaking them 
up in your county ? — A. Yes, sir; broken uj); Aery few, if any, running. 

Q. Is there a better feeling in the community now ? — A. Yes, sir ; there 
is a better feeling in the community, and there is a better state of so- 
ciety around there. In this section of country where there was so much 
blockading going on, a great man}" government distilleries are running 
iiow. 

Q. Was the number of legal distilleries increased because they were 
allowed to run on less capacity than they used to be ? — A. Yes, sir; more 
than when they were required to run on a large scale. I will give j'ou 
an example : in Yadkin County, I think, there were only two distilleries 
of that kind at that time, but since the capacity has been reduced, and 
stills of small capacity are allowed to run, I think iast year there were 
l)etween forty and fifty legal distilleries operating in that county. 

Q. Did you ever hear the revi nue denounced because it did not allow 
them to run stills of small capacity, so that poor men could distill ! — A. 
Yes, sir ; I have heard that raised as an objection to the law ; that a 
poor man could not distill any, and only a certain class could aftbrd to 
put up those distilleries, the machinery was so expensive. 

Q. Now, since they aUow them to ruu 3^ and 4 bushel capacity dis- 
tilleries, there has been a great improvement, you say ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do they denounce that on the stump? — A. No, sir; don't de- 
nounce the small capacity distilleries, but say they could not run with- 
out the storekeeper gave a part of his wages to the distiller. 

Q. It is un])opnlar to do that? — A. Rather dangerous business to do 
that just now. 

Q. What is the general character of the revenue officers under Dr. 
Mott? You have been associated with them aiul are one yourself. You 
can speak of those around you, if not yourself. — A. I think their gen- 
eral character is good; in fact, before even a man can get an appoint- 
ment in the revenue service, he has to be recommended by substantial 
citizens that his character is good. The collector will not appoint them 
unless well recommended as to being sober, industrious, and men of 
good moral character. 

Q. Do you know the general character of Dr. Mott personally through 
that district? — A. Yes, sir; I think I do. 

Q. State what it is. — A. It is good. 

Q. Good for integrity and truthfulness ? — A. Y"es, sir. 



124 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Does he stand as liigh as any one ? — A. Yes, sir. I think he standi 
as high as any man in that section of country. 

Q. Has his character suffered from these reports of corruption in of- 
fice, in the estimation of men? — A. Ko, sir. 

Q. You wonkl draw the conclusion, therefore, that they are not be- 
lieved by the substantial good men of the community? — A. I should 
think so, for they have not affected him. They are not credited as a 
general thing. 

Q. Are not these rumors, accusations, and charges looked upon by 
sensible and moderate men of character, as more xjolitical clap-trap for 
party purposes than anything else ! — A. I believe they are. Many re- 
gard it that way. 

Q. Could you say, generally, that there has been a very great imj^rove- 
ment in that district, under the administration of Dr. Mott within the 
last four or five years ? — A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. And in the whole system of collecting the revenue? — A. No doubt 
about that; there has been considerable improvement in collecting the 
revenue, and in the officers. 

Q. Is there less denunciation now than there used to be on the part 
of i)o]iticians ? — A. Yes, sir; I think there is. Of course there is more 
or less, and always will be; but I think it is not as general as it was. 

Q. It is dying out? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do 5'ou think the present improvement in the district and in its 
condition will make it less of an item in the coming canvass in Nbrth 
Carolina? — A. Yes, sir; I think less of an item. 

Q. Have the people become more reconciled to the revenue and les» 
prejudiced against it? — A. Yes, sir; less prejudiced against it. 

Q. Then Dr. Mott's efforts have broken down those obstru(;tions to a 
very considerable extent? — A. Yes, sir; I should take that for granted. 
The collector had the management, and it was owing to his efforts that 
that result has been brought about. 

Q. Do you know of any other cause that would bring about such re- 
sults? — A. No, sir; can't say I do. 

Q. Has he appointed Democrats to office in the district within the 
last five years ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has that had a good effect? — A. Yes. I think it has had a good 
effect; had a tendency to keep some people from abusing the revenue 
officers, especially the men holding positions. 

Q. Did you ever know n storekeeper to divide with a distiller? — A. I 
have known of one case, because reported — not of my own i)ersonal 
knowledge; nothing of the kind. 

Q. Did you ever see a man of character who did know of an instance 
that he said he did ? — A. No, sir ; I don't know that I did. 

Q. You mean to say, all of it is a mere matter of rumor ? — A. Yes^ 
sir ; a mere matter of rumor. 

Q. i)o you know the character of Mr. Drake, the editor of the States- 
ville American, whose name was called in question some time ago ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; I think I do. 

Q. What is his character ? — A. His character is good. 

Q. Does any one have a better character in that country — stand in 
any better repute ? — A. No, sir ; never been questioned at all. 

Q. Did you ever hear a charge against Dr. Mott's character for in- 
tegrity and ui)rightnes8 ? — A. No, sir. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman: 
Q. What are your i^olitics? — A. I am a Republican. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 125 

Q. You Lave told Mr. Pool, that tlie people generally regard tbe de- 
nunciation heaped upon the internal revenue, as political clap-trap. 
I will ask you if the Democrats regard it as clap-trap, or only the Re- 
l)ublicaus so look upon it? — A. I think the people generally, because 
several of the men who so denounced it have taken positions. 

Q. They have come into the Revenue Department !— A. Yes, sir; 
taken places. 

Q. And it ceased to be clap-trap for them ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I will ask you if the Revenue Department in that sixth district is 
not a jiolitical machine, and its officers do not run the Republican party 
of the district? — A. They do everything they can for the success of 
the party. 

Q. Don't they organize its conventions, primary meetings, and furnish 
the money for the expenses and payment of delegates "? — A. I don't know 
that they furnish any money for the payment of delegates ; they always 
<lo all they can to organize the Republican party. 

Q. Did you not see it reported in the news])apers that Dr. Mott had 
boasted of a gain of 7,000 in that part of the district ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is it not fair for the Democrats to denounce that as a political 
concern, when it is a political concern? — A. They may denounce it just 
as they please. 

Q. Is it not fair to denounce it according to what it is considered ? — 
A. I don't think it is fair to denounce a gain they make. 

Q. Is it not fair to use every argument to make them unpopular, not 
because they are revenue officers, but because they are politicians, 
and run the machine ? — A. I can't say it is fair to use every argument. 

Q. Every honorable argument ? — A. That might be fair to use every 
honorable argument. 

Q. I will ask you if some years ago, especially, the revenue officers 
were not a rough set, and rode over the country with pistols, and lorded 
it with a high hand over the people accompanying it with oppressive, 
tyrannical and insulting conduct? Was not that the complaint generally 
of the people? — A. I don't know that it was. I have heard in some cases 
where the revenue officers acted wrong ; never heard any special case ; 
just rumors ; just the same as was denounced heretofore. In the section 
of the country I live, I never heard of an insult by a revenue officer 
being made to any one, or of their doing anything except their duty in 
destroying these stills. 

Q. You said that a few years ago under the old law there wxre only 
two or three stills in Yadkin County ?— A. Only two. 

Q. And that now there are between forty and fifty ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Yadkin County is a Republican county ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What proportion of the violators of the law do you suppose were 
Eicpublicans ? — A. I can't answer that question. 

Q. You would not pretend to say that the Democrats were all the men 
who violated the law ? — A. I would not say tLey were all the ones block- 
ading or violating the law. 

Q. The Democrats would hardly influence the Republicans to violate 
the law ? — A. I could not say as to that. 

Q. You would not say the political speeches, and so on, which I used 
to make, when I called them "grasshoppers" encouraged the Republi- 
cans to go against their own party ? — A. They might encourage any- 
body who had the natural disposition to go that way. 

Q. Is not that Brush Mountain country over there, where it is said to 
be dangerous for officers to go, a Republican country ? — A. That is iu 
Wilkes County. That is considered a close county. 



126 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. That is a Brusli Mountain county? — A. I am not well enough 
acquainted to give smy answer to that. 

Q. How about Fox Knobs in your county, between Hamptonville anti 
Jonesville ? — A. I think that is a Republican township ; not positive- 
about that. Yadkin is very strongly Republican; don't think there is- 
but one or two townships in the county not Republican. 

Q. That is my understanding. I know I have felt it so ; don't you 
know that one of the accusations made against the internal revenue- 
was, that they arrested and terrorized over the people just before an 
election ? — A. No, sir. They always said then, tbey could do just as they 
pleased before an election. 

Q. Those amiable could do as they pleased, but those stubborn were? 
more than usually persecuted. Was not that the accusation? — A. I 
don't remember that accusation at all. 

Q. Don't you recollect one of the charges was, that the marshals and 
the deputies would go around with, saddle bags full of warrants si gned 
iu blank for persons that had unsettled taxes, ready to serve them on 
whom they pleased? — A. I have heard all those charges made. 

Q. You have heard the charge, you say, that storekeepers divided 
with distillers f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that division was sometimes in money, but mostly in board,, 
was it not "? — A. I don't know, sir, how tlie division was made. 

Q. You heard these rumors ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, if a man could run a 3J or 4 bushel still with a storekeeper^ 
and the storekeeper dividing his pay with him, that was better than 
blockading, was it not "? — A. I don't know; it depended how the block- 
ading still was allowed to run. 

Q. It was a steady thing, and the other was subject to loss '? — A. Yes,. 
sir. 

Q. It would be, taking all the risks into consideration, a better busi- 
ness, in order to make money, to run a little still, and get your store- 
keeper to divide ? — A. Yes, sir ; a man could make money that way, I 
think. 

Q. How much credit does a man deserve for quitting rascality and 
making more money by pretending to be honest? — A. I am not here to» 
state whether he deserves credit for it or not, but the facts as they are. 

Q. The percentage in the cost of collecting the revenue is greater 
than it used to be there, is it not ? — A. Yes, sir ; I expect it is. I don't 
know. I think that the government realizes more with the increased 
expense, than it did when the expenses were not so great, because the 
collections amount to more. 

Q. But the percentage in the cost of collecting is much more than it 
used to be. Now do you think that the better state of feeling and more 
general obedience to the law, results from any conciliatory policy on 
the part of Dr. Mott, or does it originate in the fact that you have 
stated, that the terms have been made easier for the distillers ? — A. I 
will just tell you my opinion. Where there were so many of those 
blockading distilleries running, for instance, in my county, they were- 
always afraid of being reported, and the consequence was, the people- 
around the neighborhood, the men disposed to drink, would lie around, 
those distilleries and drink all the time. These distillers were afraid to 
drive them off, for fear they would report them. But now with these 
small distilleries, running according to law, these men can't get anything 
to drink there, and the distillers are at perfect liberty to order them off.. 
and they can't report them. That has been my idea. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 127 

Q. Is there a legal distillery in the county of Yadkin? — A. I think 
there is. 

Q. I mean now, complete in uU respects, with buildings and ware- 
houses sufficient, and the locks upon the cistern rooms, receiving i)ipes,. 
and all that sort of thing, as the law requires? — A. Yes, sir; I think 
all as the law requires; T examined four or five of them last week, and 
found them in good condition. They have been examined by revenue 
agents there wlio reported them according to the laws and regulations. 

Q. Have you read the report of Revenue Agent Tracie ? — A. He was 
not in my county. 

Q. Has there been any case in that county of whisky disappearing- 
out of the warehouse? — A. Yes, sir; I think there was one case about 
two or three months ago. 

Q. Was the whisky found or accounted for? — A. No, sir; never 
found. 

Q. Who was the storekeeper? — A. The distillery was under suspen- 
sion, the keys in the hands of the general storekeeper. 

Q. Who was he?— A. G. W. Sharpe, of Statesville. 

Q. What distillery was that?— A. The distillery of P.. F. Jones, at 
Panther Creek. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Do you know Avhether T)r. Mott allows his subordinate officers to 
drink liquor? — A. He does not; he issued an order some time ago to^ 
that effect; that he would discharge any man for drinking. 

Q. Some years ago he issued that general order ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think 
it was about four or five years ago, probably longer than that. 

Q. That he would discharge any officer that he knew had taken a 
drink of liquor? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Yon say that the per cent, which it costs to collect the revenue 
since these changes and improvements were made by Dr. Mott, is greater 
than it was before? — A. I forget whether I stated that or not; I know 
but little about the cost «f collection ; only know of making a table in 
the office on one occasion, to find out whether the government realized 
more under this increased expense system, than it di<l before when the 
expenses were not so much, and found out it did realize more now than 
a few years ago when the expenses were not so great. 

Q. iSo that an increase of expenses has been attended by increased 
receipts? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the result is that the government gets more money '? — A. Out 
of it now than when the expenses were not so much. 

Q. There is more in it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And so this change to the government and to the service has had 
the effect to nmke the expenses greater? — A. Yes, sir; under the pres- 
ent system the expenses are increased by this mode of distilleries start- 
ing up, through more storekeepers being on duty. 

Q. You think then that the permission to allow the running of dis- 
tilleries of snjall capacity has resulted in increasing the amount of money 
the government gets? — A. Yes, sir. .'^Mijt 

Q. And it is a benefit to the morals of the community? — A. Yes, sir; 
in the way I stated a moment ago. 

Q. It has made the community more peaceful? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And has stopped the circulation of these various reports, and mere 
denunciation, in some measure? — A. Yes, sir; the state of affairs is a 
great deal better than a few years back. 

Q. The revenue nuitter then would not be so likely to enter as an ele- 



128 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

irient into tlie campaign as before? — A. I suppose it will always enter 
as an element, but not have so mucli influence as it had. 

Q. It is likely that the denunciation of internal revenue in that dis- 
trict, would not be of as much benefit to the Democratic party in the cam- 
paign, as it has been heretofore? — A. ISTo, sir; don't think it will; a great 
many Democrats are running distilleries. 

Q. Do you know whether distillers have to give a bond every month ? — 
A. They have to give a bond for all the whisky in the warehouse every 
month. They renew the distiller's bond once a year ; give a new bond 
€very year. 

Q. Is there any difficulty in giving large bonds in that country? — A. 
Yes, sir; considerable difficulty in getting them. 

Q. A man who ran a distillery of large capacity would have to give 
;a much larger bond, of course? — A. Of course, in proportion to the 
amount he makes. 

Q. By allowing the running of small distilleries it enables men to give 
"bonds that could not otherwise do so? — A. Yes, sir; otherwise they 
<;ould not do this. 

Q. Could a man make money by running a still of this small capac- 
ity? — A. Yes, sir;. I think he can. 

Q. How? — A. I know the mai;i I storekept for has made money; he 
had machinery and a good ordered distillery, and sold the whisky from 
41.35 to $1.50 a gallon. The distiller told me he was making money at 
it, not making a large amount, but a living at it. He had a great 
many hogs and cattle. 

Q. What capacity was it? — A. Four and a half bushels. 

Q. He kept stock to fatten them ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is it necessary to run one of those stills the year round in order 
to make money? — A. You could make more by running the year round, 
because in the time suspended, you would have to feed corn to the 
^tock. 

Q. Did you divide with that distiller? — A. ISTo, sir; I did not. 

Q. Did you divide with any distiller? — A. I never storekept but at 
one place. 

Q. Did you ever know any storekeeper to divide with a distiller? — 
A. No, sir; I have no personal knowledge of anything of the kind. 

Q. Did you ever see anybody who said he had personal knowledge of 
it?— A. 1^0, sir. 

Q. Flave you ever heard, or ever been convinced, that it was an abso- 
lute fact that dividing had been done by anybody at all? — A. The dep- 
uty collector of that county told me that if Dr. Mott could get a case of 
that kind he would prosecute the man for it, and to tr}" and get up a 
case. 

Q. Dr. Mott told him to try and find out if there was any truth in 
this rumor? Then those denouncing Dr. Mott, or Dr. Mott himself, so far 
as you have ever heard, have found no case? — A. No, sir; never found 
a case, I believe. 

Q. Are not many of the distillers in that county truthful men? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And to be believed on oath? — A. A good many of them. 

Q. It was generally understood through the district that Dr. Mott 
^ould prosecute and discharge any man who did divide? — A. I don't 
know that it was generally understood. I just mention it in connection 
with what the deputy told me. I suppose it was generally understood. 

Q. Did he tell you it was a secret? — A. No, sir; not as a secret at 

4lll. 



THE 8IXT1I DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 129 

Q. Is it yoiu' JiidgiiUMit, and your <)bs('rvaiti<)ii, ;md your knowledge, 
as a uiau of busii.'es.s, that any prudent man, running a distillery of -i 
bushels, could nuike money legitimately by that business ? — A. Yes, sir ;. 
I thiidc he could, if he keeps everything in good shape; his machinery 
in good condition, and his nuiterial all the tiuje on hand, and runs it on 
a business ])rinciple. 

Q. And that without dividing with storekeepers ? — A. Yes, sir; with- 
out dividing with storekeei>ers. 

Q. Do you think the business of distilling, in small distilleries, is a 
good and profitable business in that district? — A. Y''es, sir ; about as 
profitable as any business a man can be engaged in, in that section of 
country. 

. Q. The running of one of these small distilleries legitimately, without 
any violation of law ? — A. Y'es, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I forgot to ask you if you knew of any stills being divided in Y^ad- 
kin County f — A. I don't know of a single case of that kind. 

Q. Did the men who run the large stills, when the new system was 
introduced, continue to run the large stills ? — A. There were two of them. 
One of them, lienton,quit business altogether, and went into the whole- 
saling. Williams running only his distillery ; he Just cut down the tubs^ 
reducing their capacity, using the same building, etc. 

Q. Y^ou say you never heard of any one well-authenticated case of a 
storekeeper dividing his pay with a distiller ? — A. No, sir. 

(^). Did you hear what Mr. Thomas Templeton swore, that he paid 
Tom Cooper -$30 a month for board ? — A. Xo, sir ; I did not hear any- 
thing about it. 

Q. What is the usual price for board in thjit county ? — A. I really 
don't know ; I think from about $8 to $10 and $12. It depends a good 
deal upon a man's situation. 

(^. Was there any farm-house, or respectable place of that kind, where 
they would ask $30 a mouth for boarcl ? — A. No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. So if a man swore he paid a distiller $30 a month for board, that 
would be a case of dividing, would it not? — A. 1 don't know, sir. 

Q. W^hat would you call that ? — A. I would call that high prices for 
board. 

Q. Did you never hear a distiller, or a storekeeper either, say that 
they had divided pay ? — A. No, sir; never did, and I never heard of a 
case of high i)rices for board. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Suppose a storekeeper had a hoise ? — A. If he had a horse then I 
should think that would be a little high. 

By the CHAIRMAN : 
Q. $30 for a man and horse would be considerably high ? — A. AVould 
l)e right high price; yes, sir. 

By Ml'. Pool : 

Q. Don't you know Mr. Temi)lcton did keep a horse? — A. I don't 
know anything about that circumstance. 

Q. Was it not very common for storekeepers to keep a horse to ride 
Lome on ? — A. Yes, sir; especially if assigne<l to any distance from 
liome. 

Q. Do you know where Templeton lives '? — A. 1 don't know him at all. 
S. .Mis. lie 



130 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

By the Chairm:an : 

Q. Was tliere not some sort of amnesty got up by the goverumeiit and 
introduced by Mr. Chapman^ a government agent, for past offenses; if 
men would come in and take out a license ? — A. I don't know. There 
were some men the district attorney susi)euded judgment for, by their 
paying the costs, and starting up government distilleries. As to a gen- 
eral amnesty, I don't know as to that. 

Q, Don't you know that Mr. Chapman made that arrangement with 
men that were blockading, not to indict them, or anything of that sort, 
if they agreed to start regular distilleries, and tliey might get oft" on the 
payment of the costs? — A. Only heard of that one case. 

Adjourned until Thursday, June 29, 10 a. m. 



Washington, D. C, June 2d, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. m. 

A. H. Brooks sworn and examined for the government. 
By the Chairman : 

Question, Where is your present residence ? — Answer. I am stationed 
at Greensboro, IST. C, at present. My home is in Newark, N. J. 

Q. Are you connected with the internal revenue service "? — A. I am, 
sir. 

Q. In what capacity? — A. As internal reveiuie agent. 

Q. That is known in our country as special agent? — A. No, sir; they 
are different; they are in the customs service. 

Q. Your proper designation is internal revenue agent ?^A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you been in North Carolina ? — A. I have been there 
several times, but the last time most of the time since August, 1880, 
with some exceptions ; I have been home and assigned to duty in other 
places a little of the time. 

^ t Q. Have you given much attention to the condition of the service in 
the sixth district? — A. Not a great deal of my time has been giNen to 
that. I will explain how I have been on duty there. I was sent down 
in July, ]880, to make some arrangements, or to see if some arrange- 
ments could be made — some plan adopted to break up the illi(;it tobacco 
traffic. I suggested a system to the Commissioner of Internal Eevenue, 
which he adopted, and I have been in charge of that most of the time. 
I was in charge of that until January a year ago, when I was instructed 
to take charge of the second and fourth districts of North Carolina. In 
addition to this S]>ecial duty I was on, on the 5th of August I was or- 
dered to take up the New York division, and on the loth of October I 
was relieved of that, and sent back to North Carolina and putin charge 
•of all the districts of that State, in addition to this special work ot 
looking after the tobacco ; so that since October I have been in charge 
■of the State. 

Q. You had still other agents at work who reported to you, did you 
not? — A. Yes, sii'; since October I have had Eevenue Agents McLeer, 
Mr. Harrison, and other men, special assistants. 

Q. Now, from your own observation, and from the report of your sub- 
ordinate agents, are you pretty well acquainted with the condition of 
the sixth district ? — A. At the present time? Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you give us any information in regard to the dividing of dis- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 131 

tillcrios into smaller oues; when was that system adopted; what was it 
done for, and so on? — A. ])ividing- the distilleries into smaller ones? 

Q. Yes. — A. 1 don't know anything- of that. 

(}. I see some of yonr reports speak of that. — A. I don't remember 
>;iich. 

Q. Maybe I can recall your attention. — A. There are some instances 
where one man has more than one distillery. I thought they might be 
consolidated. » 

Q. In your report, made to Commissioner Eaum on the 17th of De- 
cember, you use the following language : " The starting of two registered 
distilleries, only a few feet apart, both owned by the same ])ersou, when 
one would answer all i)ur|)0ses so far as capacity is concerned, looks to 
me as if the distiller found two storekeepers and gangers more profita- 
ble than one." It is that subject that I wish to inquire about. — A. I had 
no reference to the distilleries in the sixth district tliere; I was referring 
to two distilleries in the fifth district at that time. This is a general 
re])ort covering the State. 

Q. Your report is endorsed '^ In regard to storekeepers and gaugers 
in the sixth district" ? — A. It is a general report. I think they asked 
for it, if [ couhl not make suggestions as to drawing- the lines a little 
-closer on the distilleries, etc. The Commissioner sent me a letter to 
that eft'ect. I do not recall an instance of that kind in the sixth district. 
That was where a distiller had two distilleries within fifty feet of one 
another in Pearson County. 

Q. Were there no such cases reported to you in Iredell County, in 
the sixth district, of distilleries being- very close to each other and 
owned by the same i)arties? — A. There were some distilleries close to 
each other and owned by the same parties in the sixth district. 

Q. Were any such ever reported to you by Mr. Tracie in Gaston 
Conntyf — A. lie never reported to me. 

Q. Do you know of any others that were reported to you from other 
sources in Gaston County? — A. No, sir; I do not recollect now of any 
in the county. I had all the distilleries examined and reported on down 
there. 

Q. Were any instances reported to you where the storekeepers were 
-selected by the distilleries ? — A. There were some where an attempt was 
made. 

Mr. Pool. Y'ou are confining the witness to the sixth district? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

The Witness. I remember of one instance where an attempt was 
made to do that, but I don't think the man succeeded. 

Q. Do you recollect of any instance reported to you, where distillers 
and storekeeper divided the pay of the storekeeper ? — ^A. I have heard 
those kind of rumors ever since I have been down there, that there 
was such a thing, but I don't remember of any case in that district 
where we could get satisfactory i)roof. 

Q. Do you know of any case where exorbitant prices were charged 
for board ? — A. I know from reports siaiply, sir, and I picked it up from 
■others — other storekeepei's there. In my Judgment they were paying 
too much for board for that section. It was a low board, but hig^h in 
that country. 

Q. In this report I hold in my hand, you say. after acknowledging the 
'Co.umission3r's letter asking you to inquire into certain charges against 
the sixth district — storekeepers and gangers, and so on — " I have the 
honor to state that to make a satisfactory re])ort upon tin subjects 
iibove referred to would require a much longer time than I would feel 



132 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

justified iu delaying an answer to jour letter. Since the receipt of your 
letter I have made inquiry in regard to tlie charges against store- 
keepers and gangers, but have been unable to obtain any proof sus- 
taining said charges, yet I am inclined to believe there is some truth 
iu the charges made against said officers, not only applicable to officers 
in the sixth district, but in this and other sonthern districts. You are 
probably aware that in starting registered distilleries in this section^ 
the collectors and their subordinates in many cases had to use con- 
siderable persuasion to satisfy the distillers that their object in getting 
them to operate registered distilleries was not for the purpose of get- 
ting them in trouble with the government; for at that time many of the 
distillers had this idea. For the purpose of inspiring confidence in the 
distillers, no doubt their friends, or persons in whom the distillers had 
confidence, have been recommended for the position of storekeeper 
and ganger, and assigned to duty as per request of distillers." What 
did you base that upon"? — A. Just on my belief at the time. 

Q.' And a belief is generally founded on something, Mr. Brooks ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You had some information that made you have that belief? — 
A. Yes, sir; I had information from the other officers that satisfied me 
there was something in that. 

Q. You say further: "In many cases storekeepers and gangers 
board with the distillers, and it is said that these officers pay one half 
their salary for board, when other people not interested in the dis- 
tilling business wonld board them for ten dollars a month." — A. That 
was the report I got. 

Q. Now could you furnish the committee with the names, so that it 
can inquire into the exact state of the facts ? — A. 1 don't know that I 
could ; I probably could if I had all my memoranda here. 

Q. You go ou to say : "All these distilleries are very small and can be 
closed with little or no loss to the distiller, thus stopping the pay of the 
storekeeper and gauger, so that iu a country like this, where so many of 
such officers are employed, I should not be surprised to find some who 
would comply with the wishes or demands of the distillers in order to 
draw pay from the government." — A. Yes, sir; that was an unfortunate 
thing about the law. The law does not pay them anything if they do 
not run ; if not on duty ; they are paid per diem. Of course when a dis- 
tillery closes it shuts off the storekeeper's pay, and so it is all over the 
country. 

Q. Did you ever examine or have examined officially by your officers 
the condition of the distilleries and warehouses throughout the dis- 
trict ? — A. Y'es, sir ; I have been doing that work recently. 

Q. With a view of preventing fraud? — A. We examined them with a 
view of seeing that they complied with the law and regulations. W^e 
inspect them ou a regular form as provided by the department for that 
purpose. It has on it quite a number of questions ; I think some twenty 
or over. 

Q. About locks, etc.? — A. Locks and pipes painted, receivers, etc. 
It requires an answer to all those questions. 

Q. What I want to know is, what condition did you find those things 
in when you made an official examination of them? — A. The distd- 
leries ? 

Q. Yes. — A. There were some in bad condition, others in fair condi- 
tion. Wherever we found anything wrong, it was reported and the col- 
lector notified, and the original report forwarded to the department. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 133 

Then tliey wrote a letter back instructing compliance witli the law in re- 
gard to those things found wrong. For instance, if the pipes were not 
l)ainted — the law requires the pipes to be painted — different colors, black 
for spirits, white for water, blue for low Avines. A great many of these 
little places do not have them ])aiuted. In many instances they had 
been j)ainted, but the paint had worn off, and they were not painted 
when the officers were there. 

Q. Were a great many warehouses reported to you as insecure, and 
could be easily entered ? — A. Some of them ; yes, sir. Some in that dis- 
trict and in the others. 

Q. Were any reports made to you of the insufticiency of the locks in 
those various ])laces which were r^iquired to be locked ! — A. In some in- 
stances I think the officers recommended additional locks for certain 
places, and sometimes boxes for locking the cocks up. 

Q. Were any reports made to you of storekeepers leaving their distil- 
leries and being absent a considerable part of the day? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. AVere reports made to you of the insufficient gauging and the fiiil- 
nre to weigh and measure meal and material for the distilleries, and so 
on ! — A. I don't recollect about the weighing of meal. In most of these 
little distilleries the meal was brought on the premises on the day it was 
used In some instances they have boxes provided where they lock the 
meal up. I don't rememl)er any case where the meal was not weighed. 
Tliere may have been sum 3, however. 

Q. Taking it altogether, from your knowledge of the condition of the 
distilleries and warehouses, the efficiency and knowledge of tlieir duty 
t)f the officers, etc., what proi)Oi"tion of s]>irits produced in the sixth 
district do you think the government gets taxes for, at a rough guess ? 
It is only from your information that I want it. — A. The distilleries of 
that State are surveyed at two gallons and a half to the bushel. They 
are required to jnoduce SO per cent, of that amount, which is two gal- 
lons. And a majority of them, I think, produce that amount; that is, 
two gallons for every bushel of grain that is used. 

Q. In fact and in truth, now, how much more than two gallons is pro- 
duced from the bushel ? — A. That depends upon the distillers appa- 
ratus, and the knowledge of the business which the distiller has. In 
these districts there are some men who will produce over two gallons 
and a half to the bushel. The majority of them i)roduce two gallons, 
and some of tliim ])rodnce less than two gallons ; while in the West our 
distillers who have the facilities i)roduce four gallons to the bushel, and 
]iay taxes on that amount. These small distilleries have nothing but 
little copper stills; but Western distillers use steam, and mash large 
quantities; some of them as high as live thousand bushels i)er day. 

Q. You have still not answered my question. What proportion of 
the whisky made by these stills does not pay taxes to the government ? — 
A. I am not able to answer that question. It is my belief about it — I 
believe they get away with some of it. I believe there are others that 
do not know enough — they are careless, and do not sufficiently under- 
stand how to get out of the grain what is in it. I cannot form an esti- 
mate of the amount of whisky that does not pay taxes. 

Q. Has it not been reported to you that many of the distillers believe 
that so they make but two gallons to the bushel, all over that amount 
was clear to them ? — A. There has been a sort of belief of that kind ; 
that is to say, some of them have an idea that all they are required to 
make is 8l> i)er cent, of the two and a half gallons. If they make that, 
it is all right. 



134 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVEKUE IN 

O. Do you know how many storekeepers and gangers there are in that 
district? — A. I do not, sir. 

Q. Do yon. have an idea what proportion are in employ at one time 1 — 
A. ISTo, sir. Sometimes quite a nnmber. At this time of the year, I 
think there is not a quarter of them employed. I do not know how 
many are employed, but in the summer time these little places close- 
down, and start up when they get in their crops, and go ahead again. 

Q. Did you say it had been reported to you, or your officers, that 
storekeepers went off and left their distilleries"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Of course the distiller had it then all his own way, did he not? — 
A. Well, sir, I think that in most of the instances they were caught 
away that everything was locked up ; that is, the locks were locked ; but 
they had no business to leave. 

Q. And frequently the distillers would have the key when the store- 
keepers would leave? — A. I don't know that. 

Q. You know that was rei)orted to j'ou; of course, I am asking what 
you are ofiticially informed of — you have no personal knowledge? — A. I 
don't recollect of such a case in that district just now. Quite a number 
of men have been removed or dismissed, for leaving their distilleries 
when they were in operation, but they had the keys, and sometimes 
designated a man to act for them. 

Q. They had given the key to somebody? — A. Designated somebody 
there in the neighborhood to have the keys; something of that kind I 
believe. 

Q. Describe the duties of the storekeeper and general storekeeper? — 
A. The duties of the storekeepers — these are storekeepers and gangers- 
now — it is his duty to be at the distillery when the distillery commences 
operations in the morning, and remain there till they get through, and 
weigh the grain as it comes on the x)remises, and weigh it as it is thrown 
into the mashes; to keep a general supervision of the business and see 
that all the vessels are closed and tight through which the spirits passes^ 
into the cistern-room. He carries the key of the cistern-room, and when 
they have sufficient spirits to draw off — they must draw off not less 
than once in three days — he draws it off" in packages, gauges it, takes 
the proof of it, affixes to the package a stamp furnished by the depart- 
ment, called a warehouse stamp, and marks the seiial number on the 
package and the distiller's name and district, and cancels the stamp and 
places it in the warehouse, for which he also carries the key. When a 
distiller wishes to pay the taxes on the spirits in the \Tarehouse he 
makes an application to the collector for a stamp and sends him the 
money. When that is done the stamp is forwarded. 

Q. To whom? — A. To the storekeeper and ganger — that is. where the 
distillery is in operation — and he affixes the stamp to the package, with- 
draws it, and makes an entry on his books, and he also makes other 
entries. 

Q. On the amount of grain, &c.? — A. On the amount of grain received 
on the premises and in the mashes of the vessels filled and empty; he 
takes the gravitj^ of the beer at noon ever}' daj-, and enters in his book 
these packages when withdrawn from the warehouse, taxes paid. 

Q. When does the general storekeeper come in, and how? — A. When 
the distiller suspends operations, the storekeeper and ganger turns over 
his books and keys to the collector. The collector then places the keys 
in the custody of the general storekeeper, who has quite a number of 
such suspended distilleries probably, in his division. He has a certain 
number of counties to attend ; or if there is a large number of distilleries 
in one county, it is divided. AVhen the distiller makes an application 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 135 

to pay taxes on the spirits in sacli warehouse he has to ^o and affix the 
tax-paid stamps to the i)roper packaoes, and delivers them from the 
warehouse to the custody of the distiller. 

Q. Whose duty is it to stamp and deliver the liquor when the owner 
wants to sell it from a warehouse while under suspension? — A, The 
g'eneral storekeeper, who has charg'e of a number of warehouses where 
the distilleries are not in operation. 

Q. They are usually divided by counties, or if a lari^e number of dis- 
tilleries are in one county they are sub(li^'ided ? — A. That would be the 
case. I don't know of any county divided in that State. If there were 
more than one man could do in a county, they would be justified in 
dividing the county and having two men. 

Q. What notice is required when a distiller is going to suspend ? — A. 
He has to forward a notice 

Q. 1 mean how many days uotice, or is there any time fixed ? — A. He 
has to give sufficient notice to allow the collector to notify the deputy to 
close it. It is their duty to close the distilleries and open them. 

(j). Is there any penalty or loss attached to a distiller who closes with- 
out giving uotice ? — A. Without giving uotice ? 

Q. After giving notice! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Does he incur no penalties for stopping ? — xV. Not in a regular 
way. If he closes without giving notice they would assess up to the 
time the notice was given, 

Q. If he gives notice he can quit without any loss or penalty to him- 
self ? — A. Yes, sir; so far as I know. 

Q. A man running a small four-bushel still can close without much 
trouble at any time he wants to ? — A. Yes, sir; with some exceptions — 
where the distiller is feeding stock. 

Q. Unless he has something depending on the distillery ? — A. If he 
has cattle or stock de[)ending on the products of the distillery he cannot 
suspend without loss. 

By Senator McDill : f 

Q. Is the tax levied on the distiller according to his capacity — that is 
to say, during the time he is running he is charged the minimum capacity 
of his still every day ? — A. He is sur\'eyed at a certain capacity, and he 
is required to i)roduce 80 per cent, of that capacity. If he falls below 
that capacity, he is assessed for the difference. 

Q. If he shuts ofl" for a time, he would be charged 80 per cent, of his 
capacity till he reported? — A. Yes, sir; if he closed without giving no- 
tice. If he notified the office that lie would close on a certain time and 
does close, that lets him out, provided he has made his 80 per cent, of 
his capacity during'^he month. 

By the Chairaian: 

Q. What I am after is this : the owner of a small distillery, who lias no 
interest that would suffer by his closing, has the storekeeper pretty much 
at his mercy, has he not ? — A. That is unfortunately so all over the country. 
It stops the storekeeper's pay by closing the distillery. 

Q. It is very probable, you say, then, in these reports, that the temp- 
tation is very great for the storekeeper to divide his pay with the dis- 
tiller, in order to keep the still running? — A. Yes, there is that much 
temptation. 

Q. And the meaning of that is, that the government is paying for the 
running of these distilleries, if that is so, that the storekeeper does di- 
vide, indirectly of course? — A. I do not know that the government cares 
much whether those distilleries run or not. 



136 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. But if the money paid to the storekeeper goes to the distiller to 
induce him to run, it is indirectly the gOA'ernment paying him to run. 
Since you have been acquainted with that district has there or not, been 
a diminution of blockading, as we call it down there, or illicit distilling? 
— A Yes, sir, there has been a very great diminution; in fact, in all the 
States that is the case, since I first knew anything about i*". There has 
been a very great improvement all over the country. 

Q. Do you attribute that improvement to this system of allowiug small 
distilleries to run? — A. In a great measure, T attribute it to that. There 
are other causes in connection with that. In my judgment, it is attrib- 
utable, in a great measure, to the starting of these small distilleries, 
Avhich made the distillers interested in keeping the blockaders down. 

Q. Did you ever make a calculation, or ever consider the condition of a 
man running an illicit distillery with all the risks and accidents incident 
to his having to keep it secret, and one running a distillery where the 
storekeeper paid the distiller half his pay; is not the one much more 
profitable than the other? — A, Well, sir, I think the illicit distillery 
would be the more profitable. 

Q. If he could run with impunity it w^ould? — A. Yes, sir. Well, it 
does not cost nnich to start one of those distilleries. 

Q. It costs right smart if he is caught at it? — A. Well, unfortunately 
it does not either, sir. 

Q. What is the reason? — A. These people have a great deal of sym- 
pathy, and when we get them into court, it is a very hard matter to con- 
vict them. 

Q. But these lawyers do not have much sympathy for them; they 
charge them pretty heavy fees don't they ? — A. Well, they get after them 
pretty lively" sometimes. Those little m.n have not got very much, and 
and I guess they do not get so much out of them. There are a few men 
engaged in that business that have got money and made money, but, as 
a rule, an illicit distiller is a very poor miserable man, who drinks up a 
good deal of the profit; his neighbors also all get around and drink with 
him, and by the time he gets his old kettle cut up he has not made a 
great deal out of it, but he can run and make a little. It depends upon 
how good a hiding place he gets. 

Q. What do you suppose, outside of the material, is the cost of run- 
ning one of those little four-bushel stills, where the owner operates it? — 
A. Labor down there is remarkably cheap, and wages are cheap. The 
people are satisfied to work for little money; fifty cents a day for a dis- 
tillery hand is paid, and considered very good pay, in many cases, tor 
a colored man, I believe. 

Q. A common man? — A. An ordinary man; fifty cents I have heard 
of being paid ; in fact, they told me so. The cost above the grain is not 
very great. The grain is the principal cost after getting their appara- 
tus up, and then it all depends upon the price of the grain and the price 
of the whisky. 

Q. Now, if a storekeeper received 14 a day, and would give half of it 
to one of these little distilleries, that |2 would run the whole machine, 
would it not? — A. That depends upon the cost of the grain. 

Q. I mean outside of the grain. — A. O, yes, I think it w^ould. 

Q. More too? — A. Yes, sir. The grain now is high down there. Some 
illicit distillers we broke up there were paying $1.25 a bushel for corn. 

Q. Have you seen there, in that country, much lesistance to the ofiQ- 
cers, or only an- evasion of the law ? — A. Not since I have been in charge. 
I kiiow that years ago there was a great deal of trouble in the district. 
I was down there and had some knowledge of the fact. But since I 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. lo7 

have been there we liave had very little trouble. In faet, I do not know 
of an instance Avhere a man was tired at, or an attempt was made to 
run a man out of the district, since I have had charge of it. In some 
of the otlier districts they have shot at the men, but I do not think any- 
body was hurt— probably more to scare them. 

Q. Shot at to scare them? — A. To notify the men to get out. No one 
lias been hurt in the State since I have been there in charge. 

Q. What do you know about the levying of political assessments in 
that district by tbe collector and his officers? — A. Well, sir, I know of 
it by having to investigate a matter not pertaining to that, but espe- 
cially to another matter, in which tliat instance came up. 

Q. You made an investigation of the levying of assessments for office 
expenses? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I see in that report you find one man, a storekeeper, that had 
given something over $400. — A. Y"es, sir. 

Q. Y'ou say he was a poor man, with thirteen children? — A. That is 
what he said; I did not see them. 

Q. In that report you do not give his name. Will you now give us 
liis name ? — A. I thought his name was in there. 

Q. It may have been in the papers you referred to, but it is not, I 
think, in the report. Did you ascertain how these sums were collected — 
whether the deputy collector went around with blank checks and re- 
quired the officers to sign them ? — A. Well, sir, that w^as the information 
1 got in investigating it — that they came there and asked them to sub- 
.f?cribe something. 

Q. In your report of April 20, 1S81, you say, " In regard to the two 
officers who, it was rumored, had paid or had retained from their salary, 
■one 1900 and the other $400, I have to say that I have seen the person 
referred to as having paid the $400. He is a poor man, with a wife and 
thirteen children, and pays the distiller $1 per day board. He did not 
Avant to talk about the matter, but finally made the following statement : 
He was appointed storekeeper and ganger in 1874, but has not been on 
duty all the time; he said he ke])t a memorandum of the amounts he 
paid just to see if he was keeping his end up; he says he has paid in 
all over $400, but that all of it was paid for political purj)oses, with the 
exception of $2 or $3 paid for office expenses. He states that he made 
all the payments of his own free will, and has no fault to find with any 
one ; with the exception of his last payment, he has paid all in currency. 
The last time he signed a blank check and placed it in the hands of the 
division deputy, who brought it to him, with the understanding that it 
was to be filled up for $104, the amount of his salary for June, but as 
there was no jnoney available for June salaries the check was filled up 
for $108, the amount of his salary for July, with his consent." Can you 
give us the name of that gentleman ? — A. I do not think I can now ; 
1 thought the name was in there. 

By Mr. Pool: 
Q. Was that in the sixth district? — A. Yes, sir; in the sixth dis- 
trict. I cannot think of his name. 

By tbe Chairman : 

Q. Was it Templetou? — A. I am not sure; one of the parties was 
Templeton. 

Q. Do you know the name of the distiller to wliom he paid $30 per 
rnjuth for board ?— A. Yes, sir; I thiuk he was then in Wilkes County, 



138 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

or iu the corner of Iredell County, and it was one of tlie Coopers — I 
think William Cooper. 

Q. Was it not the j^resent collector, the gentleman who succeeded Dr. 
Mott?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Mr. Templeton said it was, I believe. 

Mr. Pool. No, sir ; William Cooper. 

The Witness. No, sir; it was not at Thomas Cooper's, I know that. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. There is no reference here to Mr. Templetou's name, but I took it 
for granted that it was the same man, because he said he had thirteen 
children. — A. I think that is the man that I saw at William Cooper's 
distillery when I went there. 

Q. I will ask you if it was not an understood thing among the officers 
of that district, and I have no right to inquire into any other, that they 
were to pay political assessments, when called upon, and that they all 
did it? — A. Well, sir, I could not say as to that. Those men that I saw 
all claim to have paid them M'illingly and didn't object to it at all. 

Q. I am just after the fact that they did pay it. — A. I only saw a fewy 
and those were men that had reported they had paid $104 for office ex- 
penses, and I had to go and see them and see what it w^as for. 

Q. You found out it w^as for campaign expenses instead of office ex- 
penses ? — A. Yes, sir ; campaign instead of office expenses. 

Q. Did you understand that this was general, and not a few officers 
selected out to pay these campaign expenses, but that it was imposed 
upon all of them ? — A. I do not know as I can answer that. I believe 
that a great many of them paid; I cannot say that most of them paid. 

Q. Do you know of any who did not pay ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think I 
know of men wiio did not pay. 

Q. While they were at w'ork ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Do you know anything as to where the money went ? — A. I do 
not, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any distillers who refused to run, unless they 
could get storekeepers to suit them ? — A. I had one such case reported 
to me not long ago. It was in a case where a storekeeper had been 
assigned, whom I considered a very good man, and when he went there 
the distiller refused to start with him. 

Q. Saying what '? — A. They had a dispute as to how much he would 
pay for his board. The man said he would pay for himself and the keep 
of his horse exactly what he could get it for at another place around 
there. The distiller said he was not going to run and wanted some- 
body else, whereupon I went to Dr. Mott and gave him the facts, and 
he remarked that that distiller should not have the man he wanted if 
he never run ; that he would have to run with a storekeeper that was 
assigned to him or quit. 

Q. Do you know the storekeeper's name that he w^anted ? — A. I don't 
recollect it now. I think I made a report there, and it may be men- 
tioned iu that. 

Q. It seems you sent Mr. McLeer to see him ; the distiller's name was 
Plyler ? — A. Yes, sir; that was the distiller's name. 

Q. McLser reports that he " met Mr. Plyler at his house, where he pay.s 
special tax as an R. L. D. He said he intended starting up his distil- 
lery again if he could get the kind of a storekeeper he wanted, but un- 
less a storekeeper would do just as he said he would be damned if he 
could stay around there. Mr. Plyler told me that no storekeeper could 
come there who would not pay him a dollar and a half per day for his 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 130 

board. I am iiil'oi'incd that Storekeeper Hoover, who was M'ith IMyler 
when he shut down, is an honest, reliable man. I think Plyler suspenchMl 
in order to ^et clear of Hoover. Plyler at once made apidicatioii for 
another storekeei>er, and the collector assigned Storekeeper J. P. Doug- 
lass; he went to the distillery, but Avheu he heard Plyler's terms he re- 
fused to stay." — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. '' I have reported the^e facts to Dr. Mott, and he says that unless 
Pl.\ler Avill start up with Storekeeper Douglas he will have to remain 
under suspension.'" Did you hear of any other case than this one? — A. 
No, sir ; I don't think I have. That was a barefaced piece of business. 
I don't recollect of any other now. We reported everything- we found 
in every district. 

Q. I see that you made an investigation in the matter of collecting- 
oftice expenses ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The assessment was levied for 1 j)er cent, a month ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much would that have yielded if levied on the officers of the 
whole district 1 — A. If they all paid ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I never have known exactly; never charged my 
mind as to how many men were in that district. There is a large num- 
ber, ])robably two hundred and fifty officers, if not over, in that district — 
that is, commissioned ofHcers, you understand. 1 do not mean that 
many are on duty all the time. I think registered in the district there 
are probably three hundred of those grain distilleries. 

Q. Are there not over three hundred? — A. In the neighborhood of 
three hundred, but they are not all running. 

(^. At the same time ? — A. No, sir ; sometimes they cose down for 
various causes. For instance, last summer most all the branches ran 
dry, and at other times they stopped for want of grain, and for other 
causes. 

Q. But you suppose that there are two hundred and fifty officers at 
least on duty? — No, sir; not on duty. 

Q. (Quoting.) "At one time or another during- the year," you say ? — 
A. At one time or another, not steadily- on duty, 1 suppose they would 
be; while I don't pretend to state from my knowledge of the case; I 
never gave it my attention. 

Q. You made an investigation of this. I see, by the report you have 
made, that there was considerable more collected than was accounted 
for as being disbursed? — A. Yes, sir. There was a balance on hand at 
the time I went there. 

Q. Do you know what was done witli that ? — A. I do not. I reported 
all the facts. 

Q. Were there not allowances made by tlie department for office ex- 
l)enses? — A. There were, for certain expenses, yes, sir; but there were 
other expenses that they were incurring there for which there was no 
allowance made at the time. 

Q. Now, this is the amount of disbursements here: By amount of 
cash paid to Henry Dean, a sort of messenger in the office? — A, Henry 
Dean was a colored l)oy employed in and around the office. There was 
no allowance for the boy at the time this circular was sent out. 

Q. He is i^aid ten dollars a month according- to this disbursement re- 
port. — A, I think he was paid at that time ten dollars a mouth. 

Q. I see further in this list of disbursements, "for glass lamps and 
oil," "paying exi)ress charges on stamps," "candles," "washing win- 
dows," "kerosene oil," "telegrams," "tacks," "postage," "shade lamj)" 
"(three of them)," "oil can and oil," " express charges on unpaid remit- 
tance," "express charges on books," "postage," "blank book," "oil and 



140 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL KEVENUE IN 

matches," "blacking," "chemicals for electric writer," "wood," "iron,' 
"mail basket," "dipper," "drayage," "copying press," "check book,'' 
" table," "pigeon boles for files," "partition in office," and so on, and so 
on. Now, was there no allowance made for sucli items by the depart- 
ment '? — A. I think not. 

Q. Was not an allowance made for tbem under the head of office ex- 
penses?— A. Under the head of office expenses there was the rent of 
the office, I believe. ISTow, 1 have not seen their allowance ; I just speak 
from what I gathered there. There was an allowance for rent, and the 
owner of the building furnished some things covered in the rent. 

Q. Was there not an allowance for stationery and blank books for the 
office? — A. Yes; they were sent on a requisition from here. 

Q. Was there not an allowance for printing? — A. I think not, sir ; not 
for printing, but for advertising I think there is. In that district there 
were a great many officers, and you sometimes have to get out a circular 
letter. Not long ago I had to send out a circular to be given to every 
storekeeper and ganger in the district ; we required it to be printed. I 
went to Dr. Mott and he ordered it printed, agreeing to pay the 
charges, M'hatever they would be. That was recently. Advertising, I 
think likely was ])aid. 

Q. If you look over here can you tell whether all your reports are present 
or not — I mean all your special reports? — A. I think you have there all 
the special reports. I was On special duty in charge of tobacco at the 
time these were written, and investigated this as a special case that was 
sent me in addition to my other duties. But since taking charge of the 
State my reports on all the districts go forward daily. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool: 

Q. Was this matter of assessing for office expenses done openly in 
that district — no secret about it, and nothing underhand about it ? — A. 
Not at all ; open, no secret. They sent out a circular to all those people 
stating there were some expenses for which the government made no 
allowance, and it was not fair for some of the officers to pay these and 
not others; and they asked the others to contribute, and assessed them 
1 per cent, on the monthly salary for the i^ayment of these expenses, 
which the officers there were paying out of their pockets. 

Q. Do you not know that some of them never paid anything? — A. I 
'believe there were a great many who never paid. I know that a large 
number did not pay anything. 

Q. There was enough money to answer the purpose contributed, and 
the others who did not pay were not pressed? — A. I do not think there 
was any attempt to press anybody to pay; they just sent it along at the 
end of the month, when they got their salary. They sent a dollar and 
:a postage-stamp, or four cents. 

Q. You said there was a balance on hand. How great was the bal- 
ance unexpended at that time? — A. I think about a hundred and Hfty 
dollars was there when I counted the cash out. (Quoting.) " Total cash 
on hand December 8, 1880, llSI-i^o-o-" 

Q. You said you did not know what became of the balance ? — A. No, 
«ir ; I did not investigate it further than that the money was there when 
I left. 

Q. Was the money returned to the men, or expended in the ordinary 
way ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did you find anything there that looked like dishonesty on the 
part of Dr. Mott in connection with this matter? — A. I found nothing 
there that looked anything like disbou sty on the part of Dr. Mott. The 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. , 141 

most I found was carelessness ; and the circular slioukl not have been 
sent out. 

Q. What was your general conclusion after investigating the whole 
matter? — A. My conclusion was as stated in the circular; as they had 
things to get, and the people in the office were getting- them, I thought 
the others shouhl hell) to bear the expense. Then there was careless- 
ness in the nnmner of keeping the accounts. The accounts were not made 
out. I saw the doctor previous to my visit, and showed him the circular, 
and asked him when I met him in Greensboro, at that time supposing- 
he had not known anything- about it. He said yes, and explained it 
to me, and told me to go there, and that I should find everything all 
right ; that they kept a'.i account of it, and that I would find ever^'thing 
writteu up. 1 went there and 1 did not find it in very good shai)e. The 
thing- was all in a bunch and the entries were not made. 1 had to give 
them time to make u]) a statement, which they did. After they juade 
me up the statement then I made my report. 

Q. The government lost nothing by this matter at all; none of this 
came out of the United States Treasury? — A. No, sir; the government 
was a little in by it. 

Q. The government saved money by it? — A. Yes; this was i)aid for 
what the governnuuit ought to have furnished. 

Q. It is a very large district"? — A. Large in territory. 

Q. Do you think it was an unreasonable thing to be done, to ask those 
men to contribute their share of the ofiice expenses ? — A. It ought not 
to have been done; but it was hardly fair, I think, for a few officers to 
have to pay it all. The government ought to have paid all this expense. 

Q. Do you know whether Dr. Mott nuide an ai)plication and tried to 
get the government to piiy it? — A. I understood he did. 

Q. But after his failure to get it from the government, and part of 
the officers failing to pay, do yon think it unfair to send out and get 
from the others a sort of general i)roportion ? — A. It was out of the reg- 
ular order of things. It was not fair for him to have to pay it. 

Q. I do not speak of it in that sense, but as a matter of honesty and 
of ethics and morals. — A. I do not think there was anything dishonest. 
It was purely a matter of business. 

Q. What did the Commissioner do about it ? — A. He ordered it stopped, 
I think, immediately. 

Q. Did he make some allowance to cover these things? — A. I do not 
know, sir, whether then or not. I do not know as to that. 

Q. Do you not know that the messenger had been provided for, and 
these assessments had been stopped before you made the investigation 
at all ? — A. I understood that they were not collecting any more. They 
had a balance and had not asked any further. That was the only cir- 
cular they sent out. I don't know that they issued an order that they 
should iu)t do it. The thing dropped, and there was no need of any or- 
der. I do not know that an order was issued to sto}) it, but there may 
have been. 

Q. You say there was nothing to indicate that the money was col- 
lected, except for the legitimate purpose for which it was purported to 
be collected? — A. It appeared to me that way — what the circular called 
for. 

Q. You say you saw a few who paid campaign assessments ; how 
many (.lid you see who had paid these? — A. I will explain to you liow I 
came to see them if you wish it. 

Q. Yes. — A. On account of this incidental expense account being- 
carelessly and loosely kept, I suggested to the department to send a cir- 



142 * COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EE VENUE IN 

cular letter to all those luen asking them to report what they had i)aid, 
so as to compare and see whether the thing was right. That was sent 
into the district, and some of these men — storekeepers and gangers — 
answered the letter, and in place of saying they paid so much, or did 
not pay anything to these incidental office expenses, they reported that 
they had paid $104 or $108, that they contributed for campaign pur- 
poses ; and it was these people who reported that whom I saw. 

Q. These people made that mistake "I — A. They made that mistake in 
reporting for incidental exjienses that which they paid for something 
else. 

Q. There WTre no more than four or five of these ? — A. I do not think 
there were. 

Q. You know some other officers in the district who did not pay any- 
thing for campaign purposes! — A. Some men did not pay anything. 

Q. Were they turned out of office on account of it? — A. I never heard 
of it. 

Q. Were they put to any trouble, or under a cloud, on account of if? 
A. 1 never heard anything of that kind. 

Q. Did you see anything to indicate that the payment for campaign 
purposes was ever at any time anything other than voluntary? — A. 
1^0, sir 5 I never knew of any man. I just got that from those people I 
saw and visited ; they were perfectly willing to pay. 

Q. You never saw anything to the contrary of that? — A. ISTo, sir; I 
do not recollect anything. 

Q. Is it not common all through the country, even here in Washing- 
ton, to make assessments on officers for campaign x>urposes°? — A. They 
do not assess them, they ask them to contribute. 

Q. That is what I mean, of course. There is no authority to assess, 
l>ut they ask contributions? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is it uncommon even for the little clerks in the departments here 
at Washington to make political contributions ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. You did not find anything of an extraordinary nature down there 
on that subject ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Of course, when I am speaking of assessments on these officers 
around Washington, I mean by that, assessments by the national or Con- 
gressional committees. — A. Yes, sir ; I understand what you mean. I 
believe they are asked to contribute, and do contribute. 

Q. Don't you know" that in other localities through the country that 
the local officers holding government positions inside of a State are as- 
sessed for local campaign purjjoses? — A. The State officers? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. O, yes, on both sides. 

Q. These assessments are much heavier than the general ones put out 
by the Congressional committee, are they not? — A. I do not know as 
to that ; they may or may not be. 

Q. Don't you know the men who send out circulars assess 5 or 10 per 
•cent, on their salaries ? — A. For local State officers ? 

Q. Yes, sir. I don't mean State officers, I mean United States officers 
in a State, as contradistinguished from United States officers engaged 
liere at the capital. — A. I think in the State of North Carolina they are 
sent out by the State committee. 

The Chairman. By what party ? 

The Witness. By the Eepublican party. I do n >t kn)w abjut the 
others. 

By Mr. Pool : 
fi^ Q. Is net that common in the other State i ? — A. I ^ip; os • S3. I can- 
not speak bj' personal knowledge. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 143 

(^). You ,s[><)^':e of Mr. Teiii])letoii as a iiiau wlio had said be lial paid 
alt«>8etlier $400 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

(). How lou^' had Teinpletoii been in ottiee .' — A. He had been in some 
time; J think it is stated in my report. 

(^. Ten years ? — A. 1 expeet so. 

i^. Dr. Mott, your rei)ort says, went in in 1874 ? — A. 1874 — in ten 
A ears. 

(). ^Vas it in tlie year 1871 or 1872 ? — A. 1 just give his statement 
there; 1 think 1874.' 

The CiiAimiAN. He was api)ointed storekeejier and ganger in 1874, or 
went u])on duty at that time. 

The Witness. That is his statement to me. I did not look it up to 
see if eorrect or not. 

Mr. I'ooL. That would be six \ears. 

The Chairman. The report is dated 1881. 

By Mr. rooL : 

Q. What was he reeeiving a year ? — A. Up to that time, it he was on 
duty all the time, he had been receiving about |100 a month. It de- 
pends npou the time he was assigned to duty. 

Q. It may be roughly })ut at $1,000 a year; he was storekeeper and 
ganger at the Coopers\s establishment ? — A. When I saw him ? 

Q. Y^es. — A. At Mr. Cooper's to the best of my recollection. 

Q. Do you not know he had been at that establisliment all the time 
lie was employed ? — A. I do not know that ; he may have been. 

(). These men did not suspend their distilleries at all, did they; they 
lan all the time? — A. I cannot say as to that. 

(}. Y'ou don't know as to that? — A. I don't know it. 

(^>. Now, you can safely estimate that Temi)leton would have received, 
iipl»roximately, a thousand dollars a year? — .A. I could not say, sir. It 
depends upon the time he was assigned to duty. If he were at a distil- 
lery that ran continuously — he would receive over that, $1,200 a year. 

Q. Those Coopers were men of means, substantial men, who make it 
a nuitter of business. Did you ever hear of them having susj^ended at 
any time? — A. I never heard mucli about them. 1 know if they were 
substantial men they would be ai)t to run probably more than others in 
the district. The distilleiy was running when 1 went there. I was never 
there but once. 

Q. Now, upon the supposition that he was engaged all the time, he 
would have received $1,245 a year. — A. In that neighborhood. 

Q. That for seven years would have been how much ? — A. Just seven 
times as much. 

Q. Between $8,000 ami $9,000 ?— A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. And during the time he had paid for ]iolitical purposes $400. In 
speaking of storekeepers dividing with distillers, yon said that it was in 
the p jwer of a distiller to stop whenever he pleased ? — A. Certainly. 

Q. And that, unfortunately, the i)ay of the storekeeper was measur- 
ably ia his i)ower? — A. Y"es, sir; it is an unfortunate thing in the law. 

Q. That is a defect of the law? — A. Y'es, sir. 

(}. Not a defect in the administration of the collector? — A. No, sir; 
not at all. This is so all over the country. If a distiller starts a distil- 
lery and don't like a storekeeper, gets mad at him, he justs shuts down 
iind cuts oft' his pay. 

Q. If a person wanted to remedy that, they would have to change the 
hiw to do it? — A. No other way. 

Q. Then, if that defect is to be remed-ed, it is the duty of Congress to 
<lo it ? — A. Yes, sir ; certainly. 



144 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REV^EKUE IN 

Q. Have you any plan to suggest by wbicb Congress, could do it 
I)ractieally f — A. They cannot regulate the running of a man's distillery. 

Q. to remedy that defect in the law"? — A. Just pay them a 

salary. 

Q. Whether they work or not f — A. Yes, sir; that would be the only 
way. 

Q. But, unfortunately, that is not the law. — A. That is not the law ^ 
no, sir. 

Q. Did you ever find out an instance in your investigation there- 
where any storekeeper divided with the distiller? — A. I do not re- 
member of an instance where we proved that they did. They have a 
very cute way of fixing it up, some of them, so that we never got at it. 

Q. You never got at the point and proved it on them f — A. We talked 
that all over. Dr. Mott and I, when I was down there. We agreed that 
the first case we could get to stick we would prosecute. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott exert himself diligently to try and fiud out some 
one who had done it "? — A. Yes, sir; he did all I could ask of him, I 
have no complaint to make about that. If 1 told him what my suspi- 
cious were, he acted upon them. 

Q. And you and he combined tried to fiud such an instance and 
could not? — A. Yes, sir. We agreed to use the law to prosecute them. 
I made up my mind and saw Dr. Mott about it, and he said he would 
do it ; that he had been trying to find out such a case. 

Q. It was the policy of the government to induce men to put up stills 
in order to break down illicit distilling ? — A. That was the policy that 
was adopted for that purpose. 

Q. And efforts were made to do it "? — A. Yes, sir ; they were encour- 
aged in it. 

Q. And you found men saying that they had suspicions that the gov- 
ernment Avas trying to do that iu order to secure some hitch upon them '? — 
A. Yes. I could explaiu that better. 

Q. We would like to hear it explained. — A. Previous to the time this 
plan was adopted there were a great many men that had engaged in the 
business for years of illicit distilling and defrauding the government^ 
and they were charged with all manner of offenses, and were afraid 
that the officers were trying to put up a job on them in order to get 
them in, and then the marshal could grab them and take them into court. 

Q. Then they had a suspicion of the good faith of the government? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They thought the government. was trying to play a trick upou 
them? — A. To punish them. 

Q. Was not that the reason why they were unwilling to have store- 
keepers around them that they did not know, but wanted men of integ- 
rity, in whom they had confidence? — A. I caunot say wliat their reasons 
were, but that was the way I recollect it; the way it was explained to 
me, and I saw a great deal in it. 

Q. They did not want a man selected as a storekeeper over them 
who would be a sort of spy ? — A. They would not start with any man of 
that kind. 

Q. They wanted some man of their acquaintance iu whom they had 
confidence to do what was fair? — A. That was the way I understood it. 

Q. And if they did not get such a man they would not open their dis- 
tillery at all? — A. Y'es, sir; I understood that was the case. 

Q, That was the extent to which they had a voice in the selection of 
storekeepers? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any greater extent in which they had a voice in 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 145 

the selection of a storekeeper, iu any other way? — A. I cannot sa^' 
that I do. I do not recollect. 

Q. They were yielded to, to some extent, in that respect, by the col- 
lector; that is, he tried to satisfy them by giving them snch storekeepers 
as they had confidence in? — A. I do not know as I can recall a case. 
I believe it was done in the State, and probably in that district. 

Q. You may not have thought that this was a very ]n'oper thing in the 
collector to do, in order to carry out the wishes of the government to 
get these men to start up distilleries? — A. I would say this, in some in- 
stances the collector, to get them to start, has yielded to them iu that 
particular. It was not done in every instance. 

Q. You don't think it was done so as to get a dishonest storekeeper, 
and thus enable the distilleries to be dishonest? — A. I did not under- 
stand it that way. 

The CkiAiRMAN. Plyler's point was that, was it not ? — A. That fellow 
tried it; yes, sir. He wanted to get the divide. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Were uiost of these distillers ignorant men ? — A. They were, sir. 

Q. Not acquainted with forms of business very well ? — A. ~No, sir ; 
very few of them can read or Avrite. 

Q. Was it not a great advantage to have a man for storekeeper pro- 
ficient in that regard, so as to show them how to keej) their books ? — A. 
Yes, sir; certainly it was, because very few of them can read or write. 

Q. Was it not very natural that the distiller would prefer a store- 
keeper who had a business capacity to helj) him along in that way ? — A. 
Natnralenougli. 

Q. Some men were more accommodating than others inlielpiug aperson 
along with their bnsiness. Would not a distiller rather have an accom- 
modating storekeeper who would do alittle writing for him, andshowhim 
how to put things in good shape? — A. Yes, sir, A great many store- 
keepers and gangers in that State do the writing for the distillers, while 
it is against the regulations. 

Q. Would not the ganger be of considerable service to the distiller in 
watching over his bnsiness and his hands, and keeping an eye generally 
over matters while he was off on other business — on his plantation, for 
instance? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It would be very natural for a distiller to want a man who would 
do this ? — A. It is very natural for these jjeople to want competent men, 
that understand making out reports, and all that kiud of thing, because 
if they do not have them they are very ax)t to come in for assessments 
and to get into trouble. 

Q. Isn't that one of the important services that can be rendered by 
the ganger iu the bnsiness of the distiller, to look after his hands, and 
allow him to attend to his general business while he was absent, and 
let him know when he came back if there was anything wrong — acting 
as a sort of overseer ? — A. They do that, but there is nothing in the law 
that requires it. 

Q. I don't speak of that as the storekeeper's duty, but as a friendly 
act I — A. Oh, yes ; it is a help to these people to have men of that kind 
to look after their interests. 

Q. Was not that a kind of an expression on the part of the distiller, 
of a preference of one man over another 1 — A. It was, I believe, in a great 
measure. 

Q. An expression of such a preference would not necessarily imply 

S. Mis. 116 10 



146 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

that lie wanted a dishonest man to help him to steal"? — A. ^o, sir; not 
necessarily. 

Q. And it would be of great benefit to have aronnd snch a man to 
look after their interest, to look after their writing and business ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And to see that things were faithfully done generally around "? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You spoke of the condition of the locks and other thitigs around 
the distilleries that you examined, and the answers upon this form, of 
twenty questions or more ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you found sometimes that the painting was not exactly done 
right, and other little defects ? — A. That is, irregularities in the distil- 
leries. 

Q. Did you find any more of these in that district than elsewhere °? — 
A. I don't think I did ; they were about the same all over the,State. 

Q. This district in that respect was up to the general average"? — A. 
Yes, sir; and in some sections of it, especially one division that I had 
examined, I think they were in better condition than the general run of 
distilleries in the State. 

Q. That involved a sort of general investigation into the general 
management of the collector of his district? — A. Yes, sir; I judge of 
the efficiency of an officer by the condition of their divisions, the distil- 
leries, and so on. 

Q. Did you find that Dr. Mott had faithfully and diligently discharged 
his duty — seemed to be a diligent and faithful officer in these respects "? — 
A. Yes', sir; I never had auy complaint to make of him. Whenever I 
called his attention to anything I have had it corrected. 

Q. Did it appear to you that he had manifested ordinary vigilance 
over the district °? — A. Yes, sir ; as much as the other collectors. 

Q. And you think that he bad his district up to the general average, 
and in some places above the average? — A. I am speaking now of the 
southern district. That is a peculiar district, you understand ; there is 
not another district like it in the country. 

Q. Now, is not this a very large district? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. One of the most difficult of all to manage? — A. I don't know of 

any other district as difficult to manage as that sixth district is. 

. Q. And, notwithstanding. Dr. Mott did have it uj) to the full average, 

and in one division above the average ? — A. He may have had more than 

that above the average; that is, in distilleries comiDlying with the law. 

Q. You tell me it is a difficult district to manage. Will you please ex- 
plain how that is in the several respects, and why that is in detail, and 
what were the troubles in the district ! — A. In the first place, it is a 
large territory ; it is inaccessible in a great many portions of it. In 
some cases a man migbt have to go over a hundred to a hundred and 
fifty miles to get at a little distillery away over in the mountains in 
some of these far western counties. And then there have been these 
small distilleries started up which are more trouble and bother than a 
grain distillery that is paying a thousand dollars of taxes a day and 
everything running smooth and nice. The people in these distilleries 
are educated in the b*usiness by a lifetime spent therein, and they go 
along smoothly. These little fellows are ignorant people, and they do 
not seem to comprehend, in many instances, what is required of them. 
For instance, the pipes get loose; the law requires spirit-pipes to be 
closed and soldered ; people get knocking around and get some of them 
loose ; we come in and inspect, so as to get and report everything we find 
there. They are very hard to manage and keep right after you get them 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 147 

]-iglit. Soinetliiug- will happen which will get the distillery iu the same 
fix again, au<l then the officers are men that are not np anywhere near 
the average of our other officers in the West or the North who have 
charge of that business, and they bungle the thing along, very often 
causing a great deal of trouble, making errors in their reports, and one 
thing and another. 

Q. It would be difficnlt to procure better officers in that section of 
the country ? — A. I think it would. I talked that matter over with the 
collector ; he asked me to help him to pick men. I conld not do it; I ajn 
not w^ell enough acquainted, and I never recommended a man when 
down there. 

Q. Don't you think Dr. Mottmade as good a selection as any sensible 
man could have made ? — A. He did do as well as could be done under 
the circumstances in selecting those men. 

Q. All these things make it a difficult district to manage ? — A. Yes, 
sir; difficult to manage. 

Q. Do you know of any other district, of your knowledge, so hard ? — 
A. I don't know of any other district in the country that is so hard to> 
manage as that sixth district. 

Q. Something was said about storekeepers being absent from duty^ 
sometimes. Did you find any instance of storekeepers being absent from 
duty without leaving somebody in their places or locking up and having 
the keys with them ? — A. I have known of them being away without 
having-^ any one in their place. I don't recollect in that particular dis- 
trict about their locking up. 

Q. Was Dr. Mott prompt in discharging or reprimanding men when, 
they did that ? — A. Yes, sir ; he has suspended them on the complaints 
made of them without waiting for orders from Washington. At the 
suggestion of the agents he has suspended men, and in some cases 
asked for their dismissal. 

Q. You think he was vigilant and prompt in making men attend ta 
their duty and stay at their post ?— A. Yes, sir; so far as I know he 
has been prompt. 

Q. Since you first knew that district, has there been any improvement 
in if? — A. There has been a great improvement in the State in the last 
two years, and, of my knowledge, in that district, as well as the other 
districts of the State. 

Q. Do you know how many illicit distilleries Dr. Mott has broken or 
cut up since he has been in charge of that district till he went out ? — 
A. I cannot give you the number; I know a great many in that district. 

Q. Was it not nearly twelve hundred f — A. 1 should not be surprised 
if it ran that high. 

Q. Do you know of so many being broken up iu any other district I — 
A. I do not. 

Q. Do you think half as many in any other district? — A. I could not 
say as to that. 

Q. But there were more in that district than in any other you know 
of? — A. I do not say that; there may have been; I do not know how 
many there were. I should judge there were. 

Q. You think there were more in that district; that you know? — A. 
I think there were ; I do not know of my own knowledge. 

Q. You spoke of its being a hard district to manage, on account of 
the extent of the territory, inaccessibility of the distiberies, and those 
other things mentioned in your evidence. Was there a disposition on 
the part of the people at one time to discountenance the adminitstra- 



148 COLLIX'TIOX OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

tion of the law in that (listri(;t and throw every obstruction in Dr 
Mott's way ? — A. There was, sir. 

Q. i^ow, state that, and how it was. — A. When I first knew of or 
came to any personal knowledge of affairs in that State, it was back in 
1876, running' from 187(3 to 1877. At that time they had soldiers sta- 
tioned down there, and tbey took some soldiers, a large force of mounted 
men, to go into portions of that district to destroy and break up these 
illicit stills; the resistance was so great; but now you can travel all 
through those same districts, these worst districts; you can go any- 
where without fear of being molested by the people. 

Q. Were tbere men in the district denouncing the revenue law and 
the government on account of it? — A. Well, there were several causes 
that combined to increase the feeling against the enforcement of the 
revenue law. The people there at tbat time did not have a very great 
respect for the government or its laws. Many of them, especially this 
class of people that were running- these illicit distilleries, it seemed to 
them the first duty they owed to the government was to beat it out of 
this revenue tax ; and I have known witnesses to testify in g^etting on 
the stand in cases I had there myself — one case I remember, where three 
or four witnesses connected with the case, county officers, sheriffs, and 
deputy sheriffs, went upon the stand to prove the character of a man ; 
and the district attorney, after tbey had testified to his being a good 
man, a man of fair dealing between man and man, asked these witnesses 
what they would think of a man in their section that would blockade a 
little whisky and tobacco. They all testified that it would be to his 
credit to do such a thing. That is about the sentiment of the people in 
some localities. While a man would be considered a fair and square 
man as between man and man, when it comes to doing a little blockad- 
ing it would not hurt him in the eyes of his community. That was the 
the feeling in 1877. 

Q. Was that feeling encouraged by political movements down there, 
and speeches on the stump, &c."? — A. I can only testify as to that from 
what I have heard. 

Q. State what you have heard — common rumor. — A. I think that 
and other things had something to do with encouraging the feeling 
against the government. The people did not like the laws. 

Q. Was it common to denounce the revenue officers because they were 
revenue officers ? — A. Yes, it was common to denounce revenue offi- 
cers at that time, and considered fair, I think, to run them oft if they 
could. 

Q. Were they reviled with epithets, insulted, &lc. ? — A. So far as I 
am personally concerned, I have no complaint to make of that to me 
direct. I got along very nicely, but I have heard of officers being cursed 
and men shot at and shot. 

Q. You called witnesses for the State in these revenue causes; how 
were thev treated by the court and prosecutors'? — A. For the United 
States? 

Q. Yes. — A. Many of them were treated a little roughly, and, in my 
judgment, they would be denounced. 

Q. Was there an effort to browbeat them? — A. Yes, a little. They 
did that as much as possible. 

Q. Did the community seem to approve and sustain such conduct ? — 
A. Yes, sir; I thought that sort of business was helped on by the feel- 
ing on this subject. 

Q. Did not all these things add very greatly to the embarrassment of 
Dr. Mott's j)osition and his duties ? — A. It added to the embarrassment 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 1 19 

of all the officers in the State. AlJor.t that time tliere was considerable 
feeling-. The oflieers making- these raids would arrest ))eoi)le where 
they would catch them in the country. For instance, a man jioinj^- along 
witii a load of l)U)ckade whisky they would arrest and Just bring- in, 
wagon and all, to town. About that time our district judge decided 
they had no right to arrest those people without a warrant, and then 
they started up a whole lot of prosecutions against the revenue officers 
who had done such a thing. One of the State judges advised the in- 
dictment of those officers, and the whole thing combined just at that 
time to start up a bitter feeling against the revenue officers. 

Q. You do notlviunv of any illegal arrests occurring in the sixth dis- 
trict f — A. Xo, sir. What [ referred to occurred in the fifth district. 

Q. IJow did Dr. ]Mott manage those difliculties, with discretion and 
moderation ? — A. So far as I know, he did very well. 1 was not in his 
district at that time. IMy headquarters were at Greensborough, N. C, as 
now. 

(}. At any rate, a very great imi)rovement has been effected there, 
from some cause ? — A. Yes, sir, a very great improvement all over the 
State. Tliere are less frauds in the State to-day than ever before. The 
honest manufacturers have a better business than ever before, supjdy- 
ing the nmikets with tobacco that were previously supplfed with illicit 
tobacco, and the revenue is greatly increased. 

Q. The law and the execution of the law stand in Itetter odor with 
the people"? — A. Yes, sir; the feeling is very nnu-h better. I can go 
anywhere in that State without fear of being molested by anybody. I 
do not know of any portion of the State where I wouhl be afraid to 
drive now. 

Q. Do you think the collectors in the State and their officers have 
managed the matter with discretion and wisdom, and Dr. Mott in i)ar- 
ticnlar ? — A. Yes, sir; he deserves as mnch credit as the rest. l*rob- 
ably he has had the worst <listriet. 

Q. You have heard rumors of all sorts of frauds in circulation about 
the revenue officers? — A. Yes, sir; you can hear almost any kind of 
rumor down there. 

Q. Have they become less recently — these derogatory rumors ? — A. 
Y'es, sir. There is not that feeling against the department. A great 
deal of the rumors are put out by i)eople to serve some ends, bnt when 
you come to sift them (low^n you do not get anything. It is a waste of 
time to run after rumors. 

Q. In that investigation down there have you ever been able to find 
any ollicial misconduct on the part of Dr. Mott ? — A. I do not know. 
I do not remember of an insiance where. I have reported, in his district 
the same as in all the others, all the facts I got to the department, and 
I do not remend)er of having come across any. 

Ey the Chair31An : 

Q. You said, in response to Mr. Pool, that you did not think, though 
the officers were deficient in many respects, that Dr. ]Mott could have 
gotten better officers in that country-. Do you mean to say there 
were not educated young men enough in that country to have filled 
those positions ? — A. No, sir; 1 don't mean to say that. I speak of my 
knowledge of them. If they left it to me 1 was not able to have done 
any better than he. 

Q. Suppose your choice were not confined to one i)olitieal party, do 
you think you could have found as many intelligent ofiicers there as in 
any other Southern State? — A. May be, sir; I don't know as to that. 



150 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

I uuderstood tliat of these men a good many were drawn from botli ]>rirt 
ties. I never asked tbem their politics. When I go to a distiller - 
never inquire about the man's politics; but I always nnderstood thai 
some few years ago, nnder the Hayes administration, a great many Dem- 
ocrats were appointed in that district, but I did not know it of my own 
knowledge. 

Q. Did you know that the appointments were generally made for a 
political ])urpose; that a man was apj)ointed because he was a Eepubli- 
can, or they would make him one? — A. I don't know that it was done 
for that altogether; there may have been some of that; I cannot say. 
As I stated before, I never had charge of the district until the 15th of 
October last. 

Q, Do you not know, in fact, that they were all politicians and did 
party work? — A. ISTo, sir; I did not know that. 

Q. Do you not know that the revenue department is the head, front, 
and working force of the Eepublican party in North Carolina? — A. I 
know that a great many of the officers are Eepublicans. 

Q. Do you not know that the expense of running the party machinery 
is borne bj" the revenue officers? — A. No, sir; I don't know that. 

Q. Do you not know that most of it is? — A. No, sir; I don't know 
what the expense is. I don't know anything about it. I am there a 
stranger. I came from New Jersey, and do not meddle with their affairs. 

Q. You said a great deal of this lawlessness w^as enconraged by poli- 
ticians? — A. I said it was a combination of causes, and that was one of 
them. 

Q. In response to that, I ask you if it Avould not be legitimate for 
the Democratic party to condemn the revenue department because the 
revenue department was a part of the Eepublican party machine in that 
State? — A. You ask me if I thought it fair to do that? 

Q. If there is anything unfair or out of the way to do that? — A. I 
don't think it was fair to do that, because it enconraged a great many 
poor people, who had a great deal of respect for the speakers, and who 
could not read, and who got their information from the stump — it ad- 
vised them to do things which caused them to get into trouble. I do 
not think it was right to encourage violation of the law. 

Q. You think it was fair for the Revenue Department to organize and 
have contributions and run the political machine, and the Democratic 
party managers and newspapers must not say anything against it be- 
cause it would encourage violation of the law ; that is your idea of fair- 
ness ? — A. I did not say anything about this business of assessments, 
but of the advice given to these poor people. 

Q. Did yon ever hear any Democratic orator or speaker advising these 
poor people to violate the law ? — A. I never heard that myself. 

Q. Why, I understood you to say that it was the sentiment with the 
people down there that it was to a man's credit to do a little blockad- 
ing ? — A. That was on the witness stand I heard that. 

Q. Will you give me the name of the Avitiiess? — A. I can get it from 
the records of the court in Greensborough. 

Q. I understood you to say that it was the sheriff of the county ? — A. 
I understood it was the sheriff or the deputy of the connty. 

Q. I ask you in what district they w^ere ? — A. In the district of Surry 
County. It was the time we had a lot of tobacco manufacturers; one 
of those cases were up. 

Q. Did you ever notice enough to say whether the Republicans or 
Democrats violated the law most in that State ? — A. No, sir ; I cannot 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA, 151 

say that. I did uot ask tlieui as to their politics. I am comparatively 
a stranger there. 1 go there to perform my duty, and try to do it. 

Q. Has it not been charged very oj^enly that young men of Demo- 
cratic antecedents were selected there for positions in the revenue for 
the purpose of making them Republicans and changing their i)oliticsf — 
A. It may have been charged, but I did not understand at the time that 
this was the policy. The i)olicy was of getting those men to start reg- 
istered distilleries. There was a great many complaints against the Re- 
publican officers, tlie revenue meu all being Republicans then at that 
time, and the collector determined to try some Democrats in with them; 
and the}' selected a number of young men, Democrats. Some of them 
were there and some were not there. 

Q. Did not these young men selected become Republicans? — A, No, 
sir; my recollection is they did not. 

Q. Did you not know that they all subscribed to these political con- 
tributions ' — A. I did not know that they did. My impression is that 
they did not. 

Q. Who was chairman of the Republican Committee in that State ? — 
A. Just now ? 

Q. Yes. — A. Dr. Mott is chairman of the committee. 

Q. Who was chairman before him ? — A. T. N. Cooper. 

Q. And he is collector now ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Does that not look very much as if the Revenue Department there 
is head of the liepublicau party ? — A. I cannot say that. 

Q. When the collectors are also the chairmen of the executive com- 
mittee, and so on, it looks very much like as if they were running the 
machine altogether ? — A. I cannot say as to that. I suppose he had a 
right to be chairman. 

Q. No doubt about that. You also stated to Mr. Pool (or rather Mr. 
Pool suggested it in his question which was leading) that these distil- 
lers displayed anxiety to have storekeepers in whose integrity they had 
confidence ; do you mean to say that that was the only reason they de- 
sired who should be storekeepers ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were thej' afraid that the government would send them store- 
keepers who would be rascals ? — A. No, sir ; I did not say that ; but 
that it was to their advantage — that class of meu being illiterate — to have 
men who could read and write, and keep their accounts straight and 
clear of assessments. 

Q. Do you not know that in some instances it was reported to you that 
the storekeepers did not understand gauging, and that the distillers 
had to gauge for them '? — A. I did not know that the distillers gauged 
for them ; but some storekeepers were reported who did not understand 
gauging. 

Q. We find here in the report of Mr. Tracie that the distillers fre- 
quently gauged for the storekeepers ? — A. I don't know that. I have 
my suspicion how some of them arrived at the capacity of a barrel ; but 
that is only suspicion. 

Q. I believe I asked you that question before. Mr. Tracie reports 
that the report of the distillers almost invariably is two gallons to the 
bushel, and he infers that the balance was abstracted ; now I want to 
ask Avhat is generally the product of a bushel of corn in these distiller- 
iesd own there ? — A. Well, sir, I don't know that I can tell you. I have 
my suspicions about it, but it is just suspicion ; only I thought the ma- 
jority produced more than that ; but a great many of them did uot know 
how, but others did, who understand their business very well, and get 
awav with it. 



152 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. An ordinary distiller could make three gallons of whisky out of 
a bushel ? — A. I cannot say that. My judgment is, they ought to pro- 
duce two and a half gallons to the bushel, and if they cannot do that 
they ought to quit the business. 

Q. Is that the minimum they ought to produce ? — A. I think that 
with their apparatus they ought not be required to do more than that. 

Q. If only two gallons are returned then the balance is abstracted? — 
A. If they make it, of course. 

Q. You say you have heard the revenue officers abused in court very 
much "? — A. I have heard of that. 

Q. Did you ever hear of witnesses being abused in court in any North- 
ern State *? — A. I have, sir. 

Q. It is quite a trick of the trade with lawyers ! — A. Yes, sir ; I can 
not speak of it myself in the courts, but I have heard of that some time^ 
ago charged; but it is better now than it was then. 

Q. Can not you say, in justice to our people, that if all the officers- 
were to conduct themselves cleverly towards them, they would receive 
the same treatment that you do? — A. I am only speaking in regard tO' 
myself. I hav6 always been treated there cleverly by the people and. 
by the counsel, but I have heard of others being abused, and in my 
opinion it was unnecessary. 

Q. And that was in the Federal court, where the government couldi 
have protected their own witness, however the lawyer was exceeding, 
his license? — A. Yes, sir; that is true. 

Q. You say you have heard officers reviled and contemptuously spoken- 
of? — A. Yes, sir; some time ago; when I first went down, in 1876 or- 
1877. 

Q. Have you had a knowledge of the world at large ? Have you not 
heard, from the times of our Savior, that the tax-gatherer was an un- 
popular man? — A. Yes, sir; I have heard that. 

Q. Now, with reference to the violation of the law by these small dis- 
tilleries, I will ask you another question : If one of these great distillers 
out west undertakes to get up a fraud, can they not cheat the govern- 
ment out of more money and more taxes in a week than the whole of 
the North Carolina mountain country distilleries in a year? — A. YeSj 
sir ; if one of them was to go in to steal all they made. 

Q. This great Saint Louis fraud, for instance, if it amounted to as 
much as it is alleged to be — all the distilleries in North Carolina, would 
they amount to as much as it was ? — A. The whole thing? 

Q. Yes. — A. No, sir; they have not got the capacity. These distill- 
eries down there do not average over four bushels of grain, and if they 
stole it all, that would not be more than 8 or 9 gallons a day — about as 
much as would run out of the still of a western distillery in two seconds. 

Q. You say there has been a general improvement in the State and in 
the feeling of the people towards the execution of the law? — A. Yes, 
sir; when I went down there about a year ago, I went at the suggestion 
of or petition of merchants there in that State and the South to the 
Commissioner of Internal Eevenue to send somebody down there; their 
business Avas being damaged so much by illicit tobacco. We went to 
work on that and suggested a plan by which we could get a report of 
the tobacco in the hands of the merchants all through that State where- 
ever the blockading tobacco from that State was sent. All these reports ■ 
came to me from each man. The fruits were, we found out that the 
frauds were committed by a reusing of stamjis and of the old boxes. I 
kept a record of all these reports that were made to me by local officers 
in the different divisions of the different districts. They were to go 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 153 

around to tlieir mercliauts making' a report, and seeil^g• that the}- com- 
plied with the hiw, and instructing them with regard to the law. Those 
reports came to me and I put them in a book. AVe knew each large 
manufacturer, and as to where each box of tobacco went and how much 
was in it on a certain day. If a merchant lets that box go and it turns 
up in another State, then we go to the merchant and find out about it. 
It resulted in breaking up the market for this illicit tobacco. It required 
the deputies of the division to go and see everj^body in their division. 
That broke up the market for illicit tobacco. The dealers went to their 
customers, but they said, "Xo; we don't want to deal with you any 
more — we have got enough." The result was that it closed the block- 
ade factories, so that to-day, though there are a hundred and fifty less 
factories in operation, we receive more taxes from North Carolina— a 
hundred thousand dollars more — than we ever received before. And 
the honest manufacturer got that trade which these meu went into and 
had for what they could steal. I am now speaking of the State, and 
not districts. 

Q. There is not a great deal of that in the sixth district ?— A. Con- 
siderable there. 

Q. I thought the most of it was in the fourth.— A. The fifth is the 
largest, the sixth is the next, and the next is the fourth. In the fourth 
there are very large smoking-tobacco factories. We go around to these 
men now, anil it has encouraged their business so much that they treat 
us very nicely. 

Q. In relation to the whisky frauds brought to light in the sixth dis- 
trict, I will ask you, have they not been done by revenue officers in col- 
lusion in some way with the frauds for which these distilleries were 
seized; if the storekeepers connected with the revenue department 
have not been generally involved in it ? — A. In some cases there was 
suflicient ground for removing the officers, and they Avere removed. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Mr. Cooper was chairman of the Republican executive committee 
preceding Dr. Mott ? — A. I so understood it. 

Q. Was he in the revenue service then ? — A. He was not. 

Q. He was not a revenue officer when he was at the head of the com- 
mittee ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Do you know of any revenue officers who were at the head of this 
committee except at this time ? — A. Not of my own knowledge. 

Q. Has not Dr. Mott resigned the office ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is there not now a revenue officer at the head of the executive 
committee"? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any one ever having been at the head of the exe- 
cutive committee except Dr. Mott before he went outf — A. I am not 
sure about that, it can be easily ascertained ; it is a little out of my 
time. 

Q, In speaking of abusing witnesses, and of cause, it is a general 
thing that witnesses are often abused in courts — what I mean to say is, 
were not the revenue officers abused worse than the witnesses in other 
cases ordinarily are ? — A. I cannot say as to that, because I only know 
as to the United States courts. I never have heard of their being 
abused in these courts in other cases. 

Q. Is Dr. Mott a popular man in that district and in the State f — A. 
I think he is, sir. 

Q. Is he a man of much more than ordinary popularity? — A. Oh, 



154 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

yes; he seems to be the head of the Eepublicau element there, and a 
man that is well thought of. 

Q. Then Dr. Mott is an exception to the old Bible rule — that the tax 
gatherer is always an unpopular man "? — A. Yes, sir ; I suppose he 
would be, but he does not stand exactly in the light of those who have 
to go around among the people. He was the head of it. If he had gone 
skippiug around among them, they would have made it as warm for 
him as for us. 

The following witness was introduced and examined for Dr. J. J. 
Mott, ex-collector of the sixth internal revenue district of ISTorth Caro- 
lina. 

W. M. Walker sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Statesville, North Caro- 
lina. 

Q. How old are you "? — A. Thirty-one. 

Q. What business are you engaged in now? — A. I am in the revenue 
service. 

Q, How long have you been in the revenue service 1 — A. For ten 
years off and on, not steadily employed, and out of it entirely for two 
years at one time. 

Q. 1 want to ask your opipion in the first place to a time embracing 
nine months, commencing the 30th of September, '72, and ending the 
30th of June, '73, and have jon fix those dates in your mind. Mr. 
Kestler, a witness put upon the stand, testified in regard to some vouch- 
ers that were put in his own name, embracing the time I have named 
to you, and those vouchers amounted to $900, at the rate of $100 a 
month during that time. Mr. Clarke, who sent those vouchers in, 
stated in his evidence that he sent them forward by mistake, specifying 
that Kestler was a deputy collector during the whole of that time. I 
want you to examine the paper here and the statement of amount of 
allowance that was made by the department to Dr. Mott during that 
time for deputy collectors. (Pajjer handed to witness.) What allow- 
ance was made for deputy collectors for the year commencing June 30th, 
'72?— A. (Examining.) This is for three deputies at $1,200 each — 
$3,600. 

Q. Q'hen it appears that Dr. Mott was allowed by the department from 
June 30, 1872, for the balance of the fiscal year running to June 30, 
1873, for three deputies at a $100 dollars a month each?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Which amounted to $3,000. I will ask, if there had been no 
change in that allowance it would have run for the whole of the year 
to June 30, 1873 ; three deputies at $100 dollars a month each? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Chairman, I want to put in evidence this letter of the 
Commissioner's transmitting the paper called to the attention of the 
witness. The letter states what it contains. (Marked Exhibit 25.) 

Treasury Department, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

Washington, June 27, 1882. 

Hon. Z. B. Vance, 

TJ. S. Senator: 
Sir : I have the houor to acknowledge receipt of your commuuication of the 26th 
instant, and in compliance therewith I enclose for the use of your committee coijies of 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 155 

special orders for allowances to J. J. Mott, collector sixth district of North Caioliiia, 
made during- the tiscal years begiiininj;- July 1, 1872, and July 1, 1878. 

It is proi»er to add that said allowances formed the basis of the settlement with Col- 
lector Mott for salary and office expenses for said two years. 
Very respectfully, 

H. C. R0r4ER.S, 

Jcti)ig Commissioner. 

And tlieii to put in evidence this paper. I band it to the witness. 
It is the copy which accompanied the letter, marked Exhibit 2G. 

Treasury Department, 

Office of Internal Revenue, 

Washington, June'iih, 187:5. 
Sir: A recommendation is hereby made that the special allowance granted by you 
to the collector of the 6th district of North Carolina, under date of August 16th, 

1872, for the fiscal year ending June 30th, 1873, be cut oft" from aud after May "^Oth, 

1873, and that a special allowance at the rate of f 12, 150 per annum be gi-anted to the 
collector of the 6th district of North Carolina for the period from May 20th to June 
30th, 1873, and to be applied as follows : 

4 deputies, at .f 1.500 each per annum $6,000 

1 clerk, at $1,500 per annum 1,500 

Rent, at ijibjO per annum 150 

1 special deputy at Charlotte for the purpose of examining tobacco, spirits, 

&c., which pass through that city })er railroad, at $1,500 jjer annum 1,.500 

Collector's salary, $3,000 per annum 3, 000 

Total 12, 150 

This recommendation is rendered necessary by reason of the additional expenses de- 
volving upon the collector in carrying out the provisions of the act of December 24, 
1872. 

Very respectfully, 

J. W. DOUGLASS, 

Commissioner. 
Hon. Wm a. Richardson, 

Secretary of the Treasury. 

Treasury Department. 
First Comptroller's Office, June 20, 1873. 
Respectfully returned to the Hon. Secretary of the Treasury. I concur in the with- 
in recommendation. 

WM. HEMPHILL JONES, 

Acting Comptroller. 

Treasury Department, 

June 23, '73. 
As herein recommende<l I grant to the collector of internal revenue of the 6th col- 
lection district of North Carolina a special allowance at the rate of $12,150 per annum, 
from May 20 to June 30, 1873, in lieu of salary, commissious, aud previous allowance 
for said period ; provided, that the personal compensation of the collector shall not 
exceed the rate of $3,000 per annum, aud that proper vouchers for oftice expenses shall 
be furnished. 

FREDERICK A. SAWYER, 
Acting Secretary of the Treasury. 

Treasury Department, 

Office of Internal Revenue, 

Tl'ashinyton, August 1th, 1872. 
Sir: I have the honor to recommend that for the fiscal year ending June 30th, 1873, 
there be allowed to the collector of the 6th district of North Carolina, in lieu of the 
regular salary and commissions prescribed by law, the sum of eighty-three hundred 
dollars ($8,300), to be paid in equal monthly installments, and to be applied as fol- 
lows: 

Personal salary to the collector, per annum .-. $3. 000 

3 deputies ^ .$1,200 each 3,600 

1 clerk 1,.500 

Rent 150 

Fuel and lights .50 

$8 300 



156 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

And that the expense attending the administration of the office shall be sustained 
by proper vouchers. 
Ii^ Estimated collections, $200,000. 
Very respectfully, 

B. J. SWEET, 

Act'g Commissioner. 
Hon. Geo. S. Boutwell, 

Sec'y oj the Treasury. 

Tbeasury Department, 

Comptroller's Office, 

August Ibth, 1872. 
I concur in the within recommendation. 

WM. HEMPHILL JONES, 

Acting Comptroller. 

Treasury Department, 

August ma, 1872. 
As recommended by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue and concurred in by the 
First Comptroller, the sum of $8,300 is hereby allowed by the Collector of Internal 
Revenue for the 6th district of North Carolina, in lieu of the regular salary and com- 
missions prescribed by law, for the fiscal year ending ,Iune 30, 1873, to be paid in equal 
monthly installments, and to be applied as herein stated, the expenses attending the 
administration of the office to be sustained by proper vouchers. 

WM. A. RICHARDSON, 

Acting Secretary of the Treasury. 

Treasury DepapvTment, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

Washington. July llth, 1873. 

Sir : A recommendation is hereby made that a special allowance of $13,250 be granted 
to the collector of the 6th district of North Carolina for the fiscal year ending Juno 
30th, 1874. in lieu of the salary and commissions prescribed by law, to be paid in equal 
monthly installments, and to be applied as follows : 

Personal salary to collector, per annum $3, 000 

4 deputies, $1,500 each, " " 6,000 

1 deputy & clerk, " '' 1,500 

1 clerk, '' " 1,000 

Rent, " " 200 

Fuel & lights, " " 50 

1 special deputy at Charlotte, for the purpose of examining spirits, tobacco, 

&c., which pass through that city, per railroad, per annum 1, 500 

Total $13,250 

Provided the expense attending the administration of the office shall be sustained 
by proper vouchers. 

Estimated collections, $252,500. 
Very respectfullv, 

J. W. DOUGLASS, 

Commissione): 
Hon. Wm. a. Richardson, 

Secretary of the Treasury. 

Treasury Department, 
First Cobiptroller's Office, 

August 6, 1873. 
A^iproved. 

R. W. TAYLER, 

Comptroller. 

Treasury Department, 

August 8, 1873. 
I hereby grant the allowance recommended herein by the Commissioner of Internal 
Revenue and the First Comptroller of the Treasury. 

WM. A. RICHARDSON, 

Secretary. 

Q. Oa tlie 20th of May, 1873, was there a change made by the depart- 
ment In the allowance that was made the July pi-evious, according to 
the paper you hold in your hand*? — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 157 

Q. State wliat llie change was — that is, in regard to the deputies ; how 
many were allowed for the balance of the fiscal yearf — A. The collector 
was allowed four deputies, at $1,500 each ])er aniuim, commencing from 
the 20th of May and running to June 30, 1873. 

Q. According to these papers how much was he allowed for deputies 
for the nine months, taking his allowance for deputies up to the 20th of 
May ? In the tirst place, he was allowed $300 a mouth, until the 20th of 
May!— A. Which made $2,485.90. 

Q. For what time was that? Up to the 20th of May from the 30th of 
September would be 7§ months, at $300 a month ? — A. That makes 
$2,300 up to that time. 

Q. If they allowed $500 a month for four deputies, according to the 
readjustment $125 for each. Now from the 20th of May to the 30th of 
June, a month and a third of the $500, makes $063.33; adding these 
two amounts together would aggregate $2,966.33, would it not? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Just the entire allowance for the nine months in the statement to 
Dr. Mott for deputy collectors? — A. That is right. 

Q. Will you use your pencil ? Mr. Eamsay swore that during that time 
he was one of the deputies, and that he received only the amount that 
was allowed to him. What would be the amount due Mr. Ramsay at 
$100 a month for the time, from September 30 up to May 20, that is 7f 
months; $766.66, would it not ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, at $125 for a month and a half, from May 20 up to June 

30, 1873, it would amount to $166.66, making the aggregate to Mr. 
Eamsay, $933.33 ? — A. For his part during that nine months. 

Q. Put it down $933.33 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Kestler testilied, that from the 1st of October, 1872, to the 
20th of October, 1872, two-thirds of a month, he received $65. Put 
that down under the $933.33. Mr. Kestler went out on the 20th of 
October, 1872. Were you appointed to succeed him ? — A. Yes, sir; at 
least I was appointed about that time. 

Q. Can you tell by reference to a paper that it was the exact date 
that you were appointed ? — A. I was appointed as soon as Dr. Mott was 
collector. My commission was uever taken from me whether I worked 
or not. 

Q. When you were put to work were you put to work October 20, 
1872 ? — A. I was at work October 1. I worked from September 30. 

Q. I ask you how much you received ; what amount you received from 
Dr. Mott, as deputy collector, from October 20, 1872, onto May 20, 1873"? 
—A. I received $699.83. 

Q. Put that amount down under the two items you have there. — A. 
Yes, sir. 

(Exhibits 13 and II: handed witness.) 

Q. From September 30, 1872, until December 31, 1872, inclusive, how 
much is that for W. P. Drake? — A. It is $450, on this voucher. 

Q. How much was allowed to Mr. Drake, from September 20 to 
December 31 ? — A. I see right here (Exhibit 13) on the amended 
voucher, for these three months, $300. 

Q. (Exhibit 16 handed to witness.) What is it for the next three 
months, ending March 31, 1873 ? — A. From January 1, 1873, to March 

31, 1873, inclusive, three months, the voucher here is for $450; the 
amended voucher (Exhibit 17) shows he received $300. 

Q. Then Mr. Drake was allowed $600 for the six months commencing 
September 30 to March 31 following"?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, I wish you to look at the voucher of Dr. H. G. Mott from 



158 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

March 31 until June 30, succeeding Mr. Drake. (Exhibit 11 handed to 
witness.) (Examining.) What did he receive? — A. He received, as the 
voucher shows, 8332.97. 

Q. Put that down under your other figures. ISTow look at the certifi- 
cate from the dei^artment there — the proper one — and take Mr. Mcin- 
tosh from May 20 to June 30, '73. (Exhibit 10 handed).— A. Mcin- 
tosh's voucher runs from May 1 to June 30 — two months, at $200. 

Q. What was allowed him ? — A. (Exhibit 11.) The amended report 
allows him $171. 

Q. Allowed by tbe department for that time? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Put that down. ISTow take Mr. Bryan from May 20 to June 30,. 
'73. in the original allowance.— A. From May 20 to June 30, '73, $200. 

Q. What was allowed him by the dei)artment ? — A. Allowed $171. 

Q. Put that down under the other figures. These allowances to Mr. 
Drake, Mr. Mott, Mr. Mcintosh, and Mr. Bryan are for deputy collect- 
ors 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you add up that aggregate and see what it amounts to? — A. 
It is $1,974.80. 

Q. Add to that $1,974.80 the amount that was allowed to Mr. Eam- 
say, $933.33, which he swore he received, and the $G5 that Kestler said 
he received.— A. It makes $2,973.13. 

Q. You said that the entire allowance made for Dr. Mott, the collec- 
tor, in that nine months was $2,966.33? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you haveshown he paid outtohis deputy collectors $2,997.13 ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And within a few dollars overpaid to his deputy collectors of what 
was allowed him? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I want to simply account for the disbursement of the entire amount 
allowed him for the time when he disbursed to Mr. Kestler only the 
$G5 ? — A. Six dollars and eighty cents is the difference. 

Q. He overpaid to his deputy collectors in the same way $6.80 for the 
nine months ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you state the number of times that you have been assigned 
to duty in North Carolina since July 1, '76, and where you were as- 
signed' as deputy collector and ganger? — A. Yes, sir. When Dr. Mott 
first brought the office to Statesville there were very few of us, and we 
just worked wherever we could. Had to travel all the time. 

Q. That was in '72? — A. Yes, sir. I had four or five counties to travel 
over, and since then I have been storekeeper, some times assigned to 
three or four different distilleries as storekeeper ; then on the raiding 
force as a special deputy, and worked some in the office, assigned to 
duty there. In fact, I have done work in every branch under the doctor, 
I believe. 

Q. Your official duties have enabled you to become well acquainted 
with the collection district? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. 

Q. Will you state whether some four years ago there was not a dispo- 
sition to resist the execution of the law in that district, and to evade 
it in various w^ays? And please give the general condition of the district 
in your own way. — A. Well, sir, it was very hard there a few years 
back ; in fact, up to the amnesty we had no showing at all ; since the 
amnesty we have been countenanced by the better part of the people 
of the district. 

Q. What was the amnesty ? — A. The time Commissioner Raum issued 
an order to come up and plead guilty and pay the costs, and everybody 
making a promise to do better in the future and not to blockade any 
more. 



THE 8IXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 159 

Q. You meau tliose indicted ? — A. Every one. Tlie amnesty was to 
every one to eonie up and acknowledge, and to pay costs if able to do 
so. It Avas a general amnesty and promise not to blockade any more. 

Q. What time was that? — A. I liave ibrgotten exactly; it must have 
been in 1879 or 1880. Up to that time it was very difficult for a raiding 
force to get anywhere to stay or anything to eat in our district. Some- 
times we had to lie out all night, without either food for horses or our- 
selves, and do the best we could. We adopted the i)lan of taking a 
wagon with us and just cami)ing out. Going up in the mountains, we 
would hire a negro boy and send him on before us. He could then buy 
some chickens, tiour, and bacon. This was when away from town; in 
the towns we could bny i)rovisions ; but we just took a sni>ply with us 
from the towns. (loing off iu the mountains, we could not buy anywhere 
up there, but this negro boy could, by pretending first one thing and 
then another. 

Q. They would not sell to the revenue officers ? — A. No, sir; not at 
any price ; but we managed it in that way for some time. We were 
fired on occasionally, and two or three of us shot, and a horse or two 
killed for us. 

Q. And generally there Avas a very bad state of feeling in the dis- 
trict ! — A. At that time there was, sir. 

Q. The revenue officers were denounced and reviled ? — A. Oh, yes, 
sir ; we were put down for everything that could be thought bad ; as a 
'^red-legged grasshopper" was the governor's pet name, and the only 
pet name that we got. That Ave called our pet name. 

Q. Were you denounced there on the stump by i)olitical speakers f — 
A. Yes, sir; called " Avhite-livered scoundrels," " Avhisky-smellers," and 
"thieves"; "that Avhile our horses were drinking in the branch we 
could smell a distillery off a mile or two." 

Q. That was said on the stump ? — A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. By the Democratic speakers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It was a common thing for that to be indulged in on the stump ?-^ 
A. Y'es, sir. In the campaign of '70; they did not have much more to 
talk about; the Ku-Ivlux had fallen out. 

Q. Did that have a tendency to excite the people against you ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And to embarrass you in the discharge of your duties ? — A. It 
made them insult us on all occasions ; Avhenever they met us they threw 
up something to us that they had heard some of the speakers say that 
they thought smart. 

Q. Do you know the number of illicit distilleries seized b}" Dr. Mott 
in that district since '70 ? — A. No, sir; 1 do not. Since 1 have been in 
the service, should say it was something over five or six hundred ; I 
ha\"e cut up myself in one raid twenty-seA'en stills in a day ; thirty-odd 
were cut up in Y^adkiu County one day ; I was not on that raid, but off 
in another part of the district ; but so it was stated to me. 

Q. Was it safe in those times for reA^enue officers, unattended and un- 
armed, to go OA^er that district ? — A. It would be owing to Avhat business 
he went on and hoAv he went. There would be a good deal of difference. 
I could at thav time go through any part of the dangerous counties up 
there collecting the deficiencies; that is, if you would go to a man's 
house and say, "Pay me" ; if he said " No," just ride on. A man could 
enter at one end of a man's plantation, and if he did not see him till he 
got up to him, he would hardly shoot him, and let him also get out; but 
let one enter there to cut up a distillery, and it would be rather a dan- 
gerous place for him. 



160 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Did they promptly pay these assessments ? — A. ISTo, sir. I did 
not collect any in the mountain districts ; I never had a division there ; 
others were assigned there; I never had much trouble; always been 
down out of the mountains; have heard of ofiicers saying they would 
ride up and ask if they were going to pay them ; but that they would 
have to wait until you conld catch them somewhere else, when others 
were around, and tell them they had to pay or levy on a horse. 

Q. It was not safe to undertake to force them to pay ? — A. Kot around 
their home places. I am only speaking of some places ; 1 mean by that 
that there was in Catawba County a deputy collector who went to a citi- 
zen there to collect the deficiency. He had been sent there three or four 
times, and could not get it. He went over to the stable to take one of 
his mules ; he took out the mnle. The man first got his gun down and 
threatened to shoot him. He had come to Statesville and got a couple 
of young men to act with him. The man had a half-witted fellow, and 
he told him to get his axe and cut that fellow up. The man started, 
and the deputy shot him. This was within twenty-five miles of the col- 
lector's office. 

Q. Was there a disposition on the part of the people to protect and 
shield the offenders ? — A. There was at that time ; yes, sir. We never 
got any information from any one until since the amnesty. Now the 
better part of the citizens will give information of some things, and that 
has helped us so much to break up this illicit distilling. 

Q. Do you know about witnesses being abused and browbeaten in- 
court when brought up in revenue cases ? — A. Yes, sir ; heard some of 
them abused right smartly. I heard a speech made in a court-house in 
Statesville not long ago by a gentleman there, a lawyer, who knew the 
man he was abusing never touched a drop of liquor in his life, in which 
he called him a drunken revenue ofiQcer, aud it was pretty hard. 

Q. Do you think the iDolitical turn this thing took and the denuncia- 
tions that followed it embarrassed Dr. Mott and his officers in the exe- 
cution of their duty to the government? — A. Some of them it did. 

Q. Did it encourage men in the violation of law? — A. I think «o, sir. 

Q. Has there been any improvement in the district in recent years ? — 
A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. State the extent of the improvement — how much"? — A. I think 
there is very little blockading going on in the district now. It is scat- 
tered from there. There is a little illicit whisky-making and also to- 
bacco, I suppose. 

Q. Is there a better feeling' among the people ? — A. Yes, sir. The 
people that a few years ago would not give you anything to eat now are 
perfectly willing to keep us all night and feed our stock and us the best 
they can. 

Q. Is there as much of the denunciation by politicians now as there 
used to be 1 — A. I don't know about that; they are x)layed out. I don't 
know how it will be in the next campaign. 

Q. Do you find less denunciation among the masses of the people gen- 
erally at revenue officers ; less now than it used to be? — A. Oh, yes, sir. 
We are treated now something like white folks, mostly, wherever we go. 

Q. I want to <iirect your attention to these distilleries of small capac- 
ity. Has the adoption of this system of small distilleries been a benefit 
to that district"?— A. I think so, sir. There are a good many men who 
could not run a ten or twelve bushel capacity, but who can run a four- 
bushel capacity. 

Q. Do they have any trouble about getting water to run their distill- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 161' 

eries during tbe yearf — A. Yes, sir. In the summer time it requires a?- 
good deal more water, and always tliere is less water in tbe branches. 

Q. In order to run one of these distilleries profitably it has to run. 
tbe year round to feed the stock, eK:c. ? — A. Yes, sir; with tbe exception^ 
of one month. A man that has a good farm and so on, be can pasture- 
bis stock for a month on bis wheat pasture and oats. He can run them/ 
on that for a little while. Outside of that they have to keep up tbe dis- 
tillery or the stock goes down. 

Q. By dividing a large still into two or more small ones a man can 
move over to branches here and there to get more water, so as to run 
tbe whole year ? — A. Yes ; to run that way it is much better in tbe sum- 
mer time, and also on account of the stock. If he is keeping a four- 
bushel distillery, he keeps 35 or 40 bead of hogs and 4 or 5 cows. In 
dividing up, a man that has got stock — where tiiere are so many together, 
they are more apt to get the cholera and die out. By dividing them 
off into different lots clear away from each other they get along a heap 
better. 

Q. And that is one of the reasons that the distillers prefer to- have 
small distilleries to large ones! — Yes, sir; that is one of the reasons. 
I know of other reasons. 

Q. State them. — A. At the end of tbe month every distiller has- 1«> 
give a warehouse bond, a bond for double the taxes on the amount of 
spirits be made the month before. With those men down there it is a. 
little difticult to give a large bond. Men running 12 or 15 bushels,- 
they require a justified bond, and it is very bard to give it; whereas if 
be divides up his distilleries he can get two of his neighbors on one 
bond, and go off to the other distillery and get his neighbors there, and' 
have less trouble. If he is running a large distillery be will have to go- 
to town or off to the river ])lantations to get some of those big men to* 
go uijon his bon<l. 

Q. And that has to be done every month 1 — A. It is the only advan- 
tage the}' have now. 

Q. You don't know another advantage ? — A. No, sir. A man may be 
able to run a large distillery and not have stock sometimes to eat up 
the slops ; but that is where the biggest profit is in distilling, in the 
stock. 

Q. Then he would want bis capacity reduced ? — A. Yes, sir. Some- 
times they get out of stock; hogs take the cholera and die; then he has 
to stop altogether if he is running a small distillery. 

Q. Do you recollect when Mr. Clarke was sent down, or recommended 
bv Mr. Perry, and Dr. Mott appointed him ? — A. Yes, sir. 
■q. That was in 1872 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he take entire charge of the whole otticef— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In order to show you men bow to conduct it? — A. Well, sir, I just' 
believe be came there to stay. None of us knew" anything about the 
revenue service. 

Q. And Dr. Mott was recently appointed? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott turn over everything to him and let him run it? — A. 
Yes, sir ; be bad everything in charge. 

Q. How long did be stay in charge of everything in that way? — A. I 
don't know; he was in charge up to 1874, I think. 

Q. Did it embrace the time that Kestler's vouchers were put out here? 
Of course it did, if it was '74. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Clarke stated in his evidence that he issued those vouchers 
that were disapproved, supposing Kestler was one of the deputies. Was 
it the custom among you officers to let Clarke sign your names to these 
S. Mis. 116 ^11 



162 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

formal papers that were sent in? — A. Clarke did all my writing for me 
made out my reports and signed my name while I was not there. 

Q. Was that the case with other ofiScers? — A. I think that was the 
case with most of us. We did not know how to make out our pay ac- 
counts or anything else. 

Q. Did he make out the general statements and certificates of Dr. 
Mott?— A. Yes, sir, 

Q. Do you know whether he signed Dr. Mott's name in his absence 
sometimes? — A. He signed Dr. Mott's name, sir. 

Q, We are under the impression that Clarke said, when on the stand, 
that Dr. Mott signed a certificate in connection with this Kestler matter. 
I will give you the paper and have you say if it is his signature. [Ex- 
hibits 16 and 17 handed to witness.] Look at both the original and 
amended abstract. — A. [Examining.] The doctor did not sign that, the 
"original," and did sign the "amended." 

Q. Is that in regard to the Kestler ?— A. Mr. Kestler's name is 

on the original. 

Q. And you say that certificate, or the original, is not in ]3r. Mott's 
liaiidwriting? — A. The original is not; the amended is. 

Q. Kestler's name is out of that amended one Dr. Mott signed?— A. 
;So it seems; out of that one. 

Q. What is the date of that?— A. December 31. 

■Q. You say he did not sign the certificate to the original?— A. No, 

sir. 

Q. The original embraces Kestler's voucher? — A. Yes sir. 

Q. And the amended does not embrace Kestler? — A. No, sir. 

The Ci-iAiiiMAN. Mr. Pool, you have not put the preliminary ques- 
tions to the witness as to his acquaintance and familiarity with Dr. 
Mot's handwriting. 

Mr. Pool. I will do so. 

Q. (To witness.) He did sign the amended one in that instance? [Ex- 
liibit 11 handed to witness.] — A. Yes, sir; I think he did. 

Q. Now, you have stated positively that Dr. Mott did not sign those 
vouchers; do you know Dr. Mott's handwriting? — A. I think I do; I 
know his signature; would not say I know his writing. 

Q. You have been in his employ as deputy and gauger many years? — 
A. Almost ten ;vears. 

Q, Have you seen his signature a great many times? — A. It was signed 
by different oflflcers and signed by myself a great many times, to see if 
we could distinguish it from any clerk in the office. 

Q. You know when it is signed by himself and when it is not? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it generally understood that no one could sign Dr. Mott's 
mame so that it could not be distinguishable from his own signature?— 
A. Yes, sir; we all gave it up. 

Q. You could not sign it like he signed it? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do not some of Dr. Mott's officers sign his name in the ordinary 
course of business? — A. Mr. Brown signs the stamps, and Mr. Coite the 
reports. 

Q. You all gave up trying to sign his name as he did himself?— A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. I understood you to say that you commenced as a deputy under 
Dr. Mott the 1st of October. I wish you would look there [handing 
paper to witness] and say if you were not mistaken, and if it was not 
the 20th of October. — A. It was the 1st of October. 

Q. Look at the paper and see whether it does not appear you com- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROIJNA. 163 

menced the 21st instead of the 1st of October.— A. No, sir; I commeuced 
the 1st of October [cxaminiiijJi'J ; that is the 21st of October. 

Q, That is a record from tlie departineat which sliows it? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. You M'ere, then, mistaken'? — A. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That only shows when his pay began, not necessa- 
rily his commission. 

Mr. Pool. Only shows his pay began when Kestler's ceased; he took 
Kestler's jilace. 

Adjourned till to-morrow, Jane 30, 1 p. ra. 



Washington, D. C, June 30, 1S82. 
The committee met at 1 p. m. 

J. T. McIntosh sworn and examined for the government. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Where is your residence? — Answer. Alexander County, 
North Carolina. 

Q. Were you at any time connected with the service of the Internal 
Kevenue Department? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. From when, and to when ? — A. I think I was appointed in 1872, 
by Colonel Henderson ; that is my recollection about it. 

Q. How long did you serve ? — A. I have been engaged off and on ever 
since until the last year ; about nine years was all the time I was in 
the service. 

Q. In what capacity ? — A. I was first appointed assessor ; I think I 
was next appointed special deputy ; that is my recollection under Dr. 
Mott. Then I was appointed ganger, and afterwards was appointed 
storekeeper and ganger, and also held the ofllice of surveyor — the last 
office — of brandy distilleries, fruit distilleries. 

Q. How much service did you render in 1873 ? — A. I declare I don't 
remember. 

Q. I see a voucher here purporting to be signed by you. Is that your 
own signature ? (Handing to witness.)— A. "J. T. Mcintosh, Deputy." 
Y'^es, sir; I think it is. 

Q. (Reading.) "J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue 6 district of 
N. C, to J. T. Mcintosh, Dr., for services rendered as dei)uty of the dis- 
trict of N. C. during the period commencing May 1st, 1873, and ending 
June 30, 1873, inclusive; two months at the rate of $1,200 per annum, 
Il'OO. The services were performed at Taylors ville, Alexander Co., 
Newton, Catawba Co., and were of the following character : Looking 
after persons liable to special tax, taking returnof distillers and manu- 
facturers of tobacco. Received payment, J. T. Mcintosh, Dept'y Coll.," 
with the usual affidavit. Did you render that service for May and June, 
1873 ? — A. Yes, sir ; I was employed about that time. 

Q. Did you receive that money', $200?— A. I received $100. 

Q. Only $100?— A. A hundred. 

Q. Why did you not receive the other?— A. Dr. Mott gave me a 
check for $100 on the Statesville Bank, and afterwards told me that 
some of the other deputies, Mr. Lillingtou and others, were not getting 
.some of their pay ; that the appropriation had fell short, or something 
to that effect ; and that he would have to pay them some out of mine, 
and paid me $100. 



164 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. That was all that you ever received for this work ! — A. Yes, sir j 
that is my recollection as to it. 

Q. Were the deputies all paid the same, or some more than the others I 
— A. They paid diiierently ; some higher than $1,200, one $125, and 
perhaps higher. 

Q. I see in that abstract which contains the amount of this voucher^ 
the amended voucher purporting to be Exhibit No. 11, that you did re- 
ceive $171 ; you say that is correct? — A. Only one check for $100. 

Q. During the time you were in office what political assessments were 
you called upon to pay! — A. I never was called upon to pay very much. 
I believe I was directly called upon at one time. 

Q. Whom was that by f— A. Dr. Mott. 

Q. What part of your salary then were you called upon to pay ? — A. 
He asked me to indorse a check for $98. 

Q. Did you do so f — A. I did not. 

Q. When was that? — A. It was in March, I think. 

Q. What year ?— A. Last year, 1881. 

Q. Was there any canvass on hand then? — A. ISTo, sir; I think not. 

Q. What did he say were the necessities then for the money? — A. He 
wrote me a note stating that he was starting away to Washington and 
he was badly behind in campaign funds, and very much " annoyed " — I 
think was the word he used — generally. He requested the check, and 
asked that I would indorse it and forward it to Washington City, care 
of the Ebbitt House. 

Q. Which you declined to do ? — A. I did not do it. 

Q. How long did you stay in the service after that? — A. That was m 
March. I had not worked after tbat, except a month's work surveying 
fruit distilleries in July, I think, and in the month of August. 

Q. Did you get any more work after that except surveying ? — A. That 
is all. 

Q. Were you dismissed, or did you resign ! — A. Never dismissed that 
1 know of; if so, never notified officially. 

Q. You are put down here in the " List of subordinate officers dis- 
missed on charges in the sixth district North Carolina during Collector 
Mott's term of office " — discharged from the office of storekeeper and 
ganger December 25, 1881, by Collector Mott, because of being ineffi- 
cient and inattentive. — A. I have never been officially notified of it. 
I have seen that since I came up here. 

Q. Do you know anything about storekeepers dividing their pay with 
distillers ? — A. Nothing more than rumor. It is the general impression. 

Q. It is the general impression that that is done? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you ever heard any storekeeper or distiller say that they 
divided? — A. I heard people say they had been asked to do it. 

Q. By the distillers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you heard any distiller say he would have it done, or intended 
to have it done? — A. I heard them say that if they did not do it they 
would not run ; if they did not get the right kind of storekeeper, or 
something of that kind. 

Q. You say that is the general imijression in your country that it is 
done? — A. To some extent. 

Q. Do you know of any letter written from the collector's office ask- 
ing about the politics of the young men in the service? — A. I do not 
know that I remember about the letter. The only thing that I have 
seen of that kind was in the collector's office. I went in there one day, 
and Mr. Coite had something of that kind, asking the parties to come iu 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 165 

and sign — to put down what their politics were. I believe he had a list 
of all the names, and the^" just set down what their politics were. He 
asked me to do so. I saw a good many had put their names there. 

Q. Designating what their politics were"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I want to know whether those who did not visit the ofiQce at that 
time had a circular addressed to them or not? — A. I do not remember 
that. 

Q. Do yon know of any young men, or old men either, having been 
dismissed on account of their politics? — A. No, sir; I do not know that 
I do, of my own knowledge. 

Q. Do you kuow what became of this fund that was raised by contrib- 
utions from the officers? — A. No, sir; not able to answer that question. 
1 do not kuow. 

Q. How much did you pay for oflice expenses? — A. I did not pay 
auytliing. I never was called uixui. That is my recollection. 

(). I vvant to ask you — aud you can auswer or not, as you see proper — 
did you stamp any illicit whisky for anybody, aud if so, for whom, and 
by whose orders ? — A. I never stamped auy, to my knowledge. 

Q. None to your kuowledge? — A. If [ did, I did not know it. 

(^. Did you stamp some that afterwards turned out to be blockade 
whisky ? — A. I do not remember ever having seen any whisky that I 
improperly stamped; have no recollection of it. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. It appears from the official returns of the department, shown to 
you just now, by an amended voucher put in, that your services ran 
from May 20 to June 30, 1873. You said about May 1; it appears it 
it was May 20 to June 30, 1873. — A. In those months. I do not remember 
exactly. 

Q. At $171 for the time? — A. I do not know the amount. 

Q. You say you received but $100 of that $171"? — A. One hundred 
dollars. 

Q. Was not that $71 released by yon for political purposes at the 
time"? — A. No, sir; I do not thiuk political purposes were mentioned at 
that time. 

Q. Was it not distinctly understood that you contributed, instead of 
the whole mouth's salary, $71, and no more; that was teu years ago? — 
A. I do not thiuk it was uientioned at all at that time; about nine years 
a.go; I do not think politics were mentioned at that time. 

Q. What was that $71 contributed for ? — A. He remarked that some 
of the deputies had not got full pay, and he was obliged to pay them 
something; that he would give me $100, and use the balance in that 
way. That was my understanding. 

Dr. MoTT. Did you not tell Clarke and me that you were willing to 
let that money go that way in the campaign of 1872 — the Grant cam- 
paign ? 

The Witness. This account was in 1873. 

Dr. MoTT. At any rate you know it was understood there between 
lis all the time — all the way up from that date until three years ago — 
that you had contributed that money for that purpose. 

The Witness. I did not so understand it. 

Dr. MoTT. Did you not state to Clarke that yon were willing to let it 
go in that way "? 

The Witness. I think not, sir. I do not kuow that Clarke and I ever 
had any conversation about it, and I never had with you but one time. 



166 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. You were in office most of the time for some nine years ? — A. I 
held a commission most of the time, but was not employed all the time. 

Q. You then must have drawn, altogether, while employed, some seven 
or eight thousand dollars ? — A. 'So, sir ; I do not think I drew that 
amount. 

Q. How much do you think you got? — A, I suppose in all I was em- 
ployed, I reckon, live years out of the nine. 

Q. That would be some $6,000 ? — A. Five thousand dollars would 
cover the amount. 

Q. How much did you ev^er contribute during that time for party pur- 
poses? — A. Not very much. I do not remember. I expect $50. 

Q. You do not think your contributions reached $501 — A. I think it 
did not exceed that; perhaps it did not reach it. 

Q. You do not think your contributions for political purposes for the 
whole nine years exceeded that, or even reached it"? — A. No, sir. I dO' 
not think it did. I spent a little money in my own county, but I did 
that of my own will. 

Q. Were you not a Republican?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Holding office as a Eepublican? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did not others who held office as you did contribute much more 
largely than that? — A. I think so. Yes, sir, I think they did. 

Q. Did anybody contribute so little as you did ? — A. I cannot answer 
that. 

Q. Do you know anybody who contributed so little to party pur- 
poses? — A. I do not know. 

Q. You do not know any one who did so little ? — A. I do not know how 
they all contributed; I know how some contributed, for they told me. 

Q. Leaving out the $71 spoken of just now, and supposing you did 
not contribute that, do you know of any man in the service who contrib- 
uted so little as you to party purposes? — A. I cannot answer that — I do 
not know. 

Q. Suppose to that $50 you add $71, which then makes $121 for nine 
years, would you consider that an excessive contribution to party pur- 
poses, according to the usages of office-holders? — A. No, sir, I would 
not consider it excessive. 

Q. You paid nothing for the office expenses? — A. No, sir; I think not. 
My recollection is I did not. I do not think I was ever called upon to 
pay anything. 

Q. To whom did you contribute this amount less than $50, you speak 
of? — A. I never paid $50 at any one time, but all along, here and there 
a little, and some little incidental expenses, labout a dozen times. 

Q. To whom did you pay any of it? — A. To Mr. Clarke several times 
there in the office — five and ten dollars, along about the Grant cam- 
paign. 

Q. Then I understand you to say that in nine years' service, for which 

you received not less than $5,000 as a Eepublican officer A. I juvst 

make that as a rough guess. 

Q. Not less than that — you never contributed for party purposes ex- 
ceeding $50 all told?— A. I do not think I did. 

Q. And that if the $71 in question had been added to that $50, it 
would not, in your judgment, have been a fair contribution by yourself^ 
at that time ?— A. 1 would not call that excessive. 

Q. Would you, then, have been up to what the others contributed 
generally, even if you had paid the $71? — A. 1 do not know anything 
about what they contributed heretofore; I know what they did con- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF XORTH CAROLINA. 167 

tribute in the last campaign — iu the other canipaigu i)revious to this, 
the Grant campaign. 

Q. You heard tlie matter talked about, and generally understood how 
much others contributed, did you not? — A. I do not remember about the 
other campaign. I heard about this last one; what they contributed in 
the campaign before, I do not remember. 

Q. Your recollection, then, embracing this campaign busiuess niuci 
years ago, is very indefinite ? — A. I do not remember what they con- 
tributed at that time. 

Q. Do you remember whether you contributed anything in that year? 
— A. I think some small amount. This last campaign I never contrib- 
uted anything, as I was not employed. 

Q. I understood you were employed in the last campaign! — A. I 
was not employed. 

Q. You know better what others contributed in the last campaign 
than in the campaign when you were employed? — A. Yes, sir; Ire- 
member what they told me. I do not remember what they did con- 
tribute eight years ago. 

Q. Then, you know more about what office-holders have contributed 
when you were not in office than wheu you were in office? — A. I was 
in office, but not employed. 

Q. I understood you to say that the deputies were not paid a uniform 
amount; that some were paid more than others. — A. I think that was 
the rule. I was only a special dei)nty, not a regular deputy. I think 
the regular deputies were paid the same. 

Q. Was there any authority to employ special deputies?— A. Any 
authority? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I suppose so. The collector has authority. 

Q. It appears from the official records on file in this examination that 
a regular allowance was made for three deputies, from June 30, 1872, to 
June 30, 1873, and that was changed on the 20th of May to a regular 
allowance for four deputies; was there any authority for emi^loying 
special deputies outside of that? — A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. It does not appear from the official records on file that there was 
any allowance made for any such purpose. — A. I do not know anything 
about that. 

Q. You say you were a special deputy, and paid as su(;h? — A. Yes, 
sir; paid as such. 

Q. Can you give me the name of any individual deputy that was paid 
more than any other deputy? — A. T3o you mean special deputies? 

Q. Special deputies. It is an entirely new thing tome. I never heard 
of that, as the law did not permit it. — A. Look over the schedule. You. 
will find them set down at different prices. 

Q. For the same time? — A. For the same time. The schedule so 
shows it. 

Q. Y^ou spoke of being asked your politics at the office in Statesville ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that others, you think, were asked their politics also? — A. I 
think so. Mr. Coite had the list there on his desk. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott have some Democrats employed there, as well as Ee- 
publicans? — A. I think so. 

Q. Do you mean to inform me that Dr. Mott appointed men without 
knowing their politics? — A. I suppose he knew their politics. 

Q. Why inquire, then? — A. I do not know why. 

Q. Do you not know that Mr. Cowles made a very great effort, some- 



"168 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

time ago, to have Dr. Mott removed from Ms office"? — A. I understood 
so; yes, sir. 

Q. Did you take part with Mr. Cowles in that attack upon Dr. Mott 
to remove him*? — A. I do not know that 1 took any special i^art, except 
-signing a petition for Mr. Cowles. 

Q. Is that all you signed for him f — A. That is all I signed, I believe, 
a petition for him, except an affidavit I made. 

Q. Were you not an officer at the time you signed the petition for 
^Cowles? — A. Yes, sir, I suppose I held a commission. 

Q. Were you not in office at the time you signed that affidavit? — A. 
-Tes, sir; I think so. 

Q. You say you were removed from office, and did not resign ? — A. If 
1l was removed, I have not been officially notified of it. 

Q. Do you think it unneasonable, when you were taking part with, 
and signing a petition and affidavit for Cowles, that you should be re- 
moved by the incumbent. Dr. Mott? — A. I think he did exactly right; 
just what I exi)ected him to do. 

Q. You were assuming an attitude of defiance to the collector, and 
-expected him to remove you for signing this, and you defied him 1 — A. 
No, sir; I expected him to remove me as soon as he had seen that; as 
«oon as he had found out that I had signed a petition for Cowles. 

Mr. PooL.Mr. Chairman, in this executive document, No. 83, to which 
reference has been made by other witnesses, I find an affidavit, of Mr. 
-Mcintosh, which I desire to be inserted here (marked Exhibit 27) : 

Affidavit of J. T. Mclnlosh. 

Statesville, N. C, Oct. 11 1881. 
Westekx Dist. N. C. Judicial, 

6th Int. Eev. Dist. : 

J. T. Mclntosli, U. S. ganger and storekeeper, resident of Taylorsville, AU^xauder 
<Co., in said dist., deposes and says that on or about the month of March, 1881, he re- 
■feived a letter from J. J. Mott, collector of int. revenue of the 6th dist. N. C, contain- 
ing a check due him, the said J. T. Mcintosh, U. S. ganger and st'k'r aforesaid, for 
services rendered as such at the distillery of Little & 13ro. for the mouth of February, 
-A.. D. 1881, of said county, district aforesaid, of the value of ninety-eight -j°iB)- dolls. 
<i($98.00), which said check and amount thereof was already due deponent for actual 
services rendered. The said collector of int. rev., J. ,1. Mott, however, instructed him 
to indorse the said check and remit to him at Washington, D. C, care of Ebbitt House, 
sas he was behind on campagiu fund of 1881, and had to settle at that time on or about 
the month of March, 1881, with parties to whom he was indebted for advances. De- 
ponent says further that he answered the said J. J. Mott, collector as aforesaid, that 
Sie supposed the campaign debt had been arranged in full, and at that time he did not 
^eel able to contribute the amount asked for ; but, if the fund had not been arranged 
that he was willing to contribute whatever amount was right. At this time the depo- 
tnent says the said J. J. Mott, collector as aforesaid, was due him, the said J. T. Mcin- 
tosh, U. S. st'k'r and g'r, one hundred and four -i*{,'{f dollars for services reuderd as such 
<ofiScer at the distillery of Price & Bro., of Alexander Co., in said district, for the 
imonth of June, A. D. 1880, just nine months previous. 

Knowing that the appropriations for the fiscal year A. D. 1880 expired on June the 30th 
of said year, I presumed the cause of non-remittance was due to the complete expendi- 
ture of said appropriation of said year, and that I had to wait for a deficiency bill to 
be passed by Congress for several months (probably 3 or 4"). He did communicate with 

said ofiSce on the subject of said check, on or about the of , A. D. 1881. He, 

the said deponent, J. T. Mcintosh, wrote a letter to W. J. Coite, chief clerk of J. J. 
Mott, collector aforesaid, asking for a check to be remmitted for services rendered as 

U. S. st'k'r and g'r forthenmnth of June, A. D. 1880, aforesaid. On June 27, 1881, 

the deponent received net amount one hundred and four 1^,% dolls, by registered 

letter in currency. The deponent knows of his personal knowledge that when a 
voucher on 107-J is filled and officer is to be paid, a check is made out payable at the 
Ealeigh Nat'l Bank at Ealeigh. N. C. The deponent knows that it is the usual cus- 
tom in said office to pay said of3ficers always by check on said bank, and is confident 
that said amount was made payable to him in said manner; that he never indorsed 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. ' 169 

any sucli cliock, and if the check is produced now on tile in said Raleigh Nat'l Bank 
he will swear that the signatnre is not his, and that he did not authorize or give a 
iiowcr of attorney to any person whatsoe\'er to endorse said check. 

J. T. McINTOSII. 

Siihscrihed to and sworn before me this 11 day of Oct., A. D. 1881. 

[h. s.] 'a. d. cowles, 

1). C, r. S. Court, nV.s/. J)isf. of N. Carolina. 

I find ill the same executive docnmeiit an official letter of Dr. Mott's 
in regard to and in explanation of that affidavit of Mr. Mcintosh, which I 
also desire to insert. 

The Chairman. Do you think Dr. Mott's affidavit ought to go in 
when he is here and can testify hiuiself as to the matter? 

Mr. Pool. If we take some extracts from this executive document, w^e 
have a right to take any other. 

The Chairman. Suppose he was on the stand. Mould vou want it in 
then ? 

Mr. Pool. Yes, sir, even theu. 

(Marked Exhibit 28.) 

Btply to affidavit of J. T. Mclntonh. 

CoLLECTOK'y Offick, <)T1i Dist., N. C, 

Stali'i^rillc, Jan. 16th, 1882. 
Hon. Grken B. Rai'm, 

Com'r Inter. Revenue, Washington, D. C. : 
Sir: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of a copy of an afiftdavit of J. T. 
Mcintosh, late storekeeper & ganger in this district. 

It seems hardly necessary to make a reply to his statements. He admits receiving 
every dollar due him, bnt complains that he was reqnested to aid the Repnblican com- 
mittee, which he declined to do, and that he received a portion of his salary in cash 
instead of a draft. Mcintosh wonhl have it appear that his pay for June, 1880, vras 
withheld. It was not rec'd at this office till April, 1881, after passage of a deficiency 
bill. A nnmber of the officers, owing to the long delay, had given orders to merchants 
and others for their pay. I had instructed the cashier to retain these checks until 
personal application or order was made by each officer for his pay. This was done to 
protect any who had made advances to them. When Mcintosh did apply, according 
to affidavit of Mr. Coite, he requested the cash, and the check was made payable to 
bearer, the cash rec'd for it, and st-nt to him in this way for his accommodation. 

This is fre([uently done in the office (checks made payable to bearer aud the money 
remitted instead) for accommodation of those Avho might find difficulty in getting 
tlieir drafts cashed where thej' reside. 
Verv respectfully, 

JNO. .J. MOTT, 

Collector. 



[Slip cut from the Guide of April 1, 1881.] 

The long-delayed pay for June, 1880, services, due storekeepers and gangers, will b« 
forwarded to the parties entitled within the next ten days. 

B. 

United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, 6 District, North Carolina, 

Statesville, June 2l8t, 1881. 
J. T. McIntosh, Esq., 

S. and G., Taylorsville, N. C. : 
Sir: Your June, 1880, pay has been in this office awaiting your oi'der. Not having 
called for it, a S. & G. is presumed to have disposed of the claim, &, the cash is held 
until presentation by the holder. 



170 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

I enclose j^our salary for June, 1880, as P. and G. as per act. rendered & allowed, 
being one hundred & four dollars (.$104). Please acknowledge receipt. 
Respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, 

CoWr., 
Per C. 
C. 
To whom it may concern : 

I have examined an affidavit (copy) as made by J. T. Mcintosh, late stkr. & gaugei- 
in the 6th dist. No. Ca.; and in the matter of the payment to him of the amount due 
him for services during June, 1880, am able to make the following statement : 

For want of appropriation, the payment of all %'s of stkr. & gaugers for June, 1880, 
Avere delayed. The money therefor was not received at this office, and deposited ta 
credit of Coll'r's D. A. until March 28, '81. The checks on it were dated Mar. 30, '81,, 
but were not completed (filled out, signed, &.c.) until about April 10, '81. 

The delay in the payment of these accounts had tended in many instances to work 
hardship to the officers to whom it was due, and they (needing their money) had dis- 
counted or cashed the claims, and numbers of the orders were tiled in this office. 

When the cash had been received from Washington a notice (see appended paper 
marked A) was insertedin the " Guide," anofficial paper published monthly from this, 
office and sent to every officer in the district. 

It was decided imprudent, in view of many orders, to remit to each S. & gr. with- 
out having first heard from him that there was no lien upon the amount originally due 
him. Though this course was strictly adhered to, the records show that within a few 
days of the receipt of the money and of the notice in the " Guide," but fetv of th(v 
amounts due (checks) remained on hand ; it appears that Mcintosh's was one ; for on 
or about June 5, '81, I received from him a letter — addressed to me as dep'y coll'r^ — 
requesting me to send him his cash for June, '80. To oblige him, as I then thought, I 
obtained " cash" for his check, and after ascertaining from him that he had no orders- 
"out" on that pay, I sent him the money in a registered letter, as he had requested. I 
enclose a copy of said letter, taken from the official copy-book in this office, wherein 
I at the time copied it (B). I may add that I have never received from Mr. Mclntosb 
any acknowledgment of the receipt of the amount by him. 

WM. J. COITE, 

Deputy ColVr, 

Signed and sworn to before me this 16th day of January, A. D, 1882. 

J. FRANK DAVIS, 



B. 

Registry recei}}t. 



Deputy Collector. 



Post-office at Statesville, N. C. Registered letter No. 883, Rec'd June 21, 18wl, of 
J. J. Mott, addressed to J. T. Mcintosh, Taylorsville, N. C. 

L. A. SHARPE, P. M. 

Q. You have your mind clearly upon the campaign of 1872. You rec 
ollect it — the Grant campaign I mean? — A, I remember that he ran in 
1872. 

Q. Was it not a very hot and earnest campaign in ISTorth Carolina? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It was at the time Todd E. Caldwell ran for governor? — A. I do 
not remember ; I suppose it was about that time. 

Q. Well, in that campaign, when Mr. Caldwell was running, was it 
not a hot campaign and earnestly contested ? — A. Yes, sir ; very hot. 

Q. Especially so in this sixth district where Caldwell lived? — A. Pol- 
itics ran pretty high. 

Q. Was there not a great deal of work done by both political parties 
at that time ? — A. I think there was. 

Q. Were not the revenue oiScers and other oflScers of the United 
States, especially postmasters, active in that campaign? — A. I suppose 
they were, but not more, so I think, than any others. 

Q. Have you any recollection of having contributed any amount dur- 
ing the year 1872 while the campaign was going on ? — A. I do not re- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 171 

member; ;ill the work I did in 1872 was under Colonel Henderson, 
assessor. 1 did not do any work under Dr. Mott in 1S72. I only worked 
two months under Colonel Henderson. 

Q. The assessors were all broken up in May, 1873, following ? — A.. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And then you came in under Dr. Mott as an officer "? — A. Yes, sir j 
came in about that time. 

Q. Do you not recollect tliat there was considerable of a deficiency 
in the campaign expenses, because some officers would not contribute 
at all ! — A. I do not know that. 

Q. Were you informed to that effect by Mr. Clarke ?— A. Not that I 
remember. 

Q. Do you not recollect that Clarke told you that there was a defi- 
ciency, and you ought to come forward and contribute your proportion- 
ate share, not for the campaign, but to supply the deficiency then exist- 
ing f — A. He may have told me so, but I have no recollection of it. 

Q. Do you not know that this $71 was to make up your share of the 
deficiency in the preceding camijaign! — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. Do you not recollect that "? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You do not recollect that that was understood between you and 
Clarke ? — A. No, sir ; I have no recollection of ever having any talk 
with Clarke about it whatever. 

Q. Colonel Henderson was a very hard, earnest worker in tlie cam- 
paign, was he not 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you did not pay anything to him ? — A. No, sir; I did not. 

Q. And on May 20, when he went out, and you came in under the col- 
lector, do you recollect whether Mr. Henderson rendered to the collector 
an account of the deficiency amongst the officers'?— A. I do not recol- 
lect that. 

Q. Were you not assigned to work in your own county generally 
when anything was going on there"?— A. Not all the time. I did there 
a little storekeeping. 

Q. Whenever there was any work in your county, did you not get it 
all to do ? — A. Not always. 

Q. Did you not consider that to some extent as a favor to you f — A. 
Yes, sir; Ijecause I could not leave my own county well, situated as I 
was. 

Q. Did you request Dr. Mott, some time previous to signing this affi- 
davit for Cowles and his petition, to make you a deputy ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he do it ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you take offense at if? — A. I do not know that I did. 

Q. Did you not express to Dr. Mott that you were offended because 
he had not given you a deputy's place? — A. No, sir; I do not think I 
did. I remarked to him one day, when talking about the matter, that 
I had been looking forward to that place and expecting it, or something 
of that sort. He said he had thought something about it. We had 
some such talk. I think the remark he made about it was, " I cannot do- 
it; I cannot dismiss Smith and retain you." 1 think that was about all 
he said. 

Q. You thought you ought to have had it, becanse you had been in 
the service so long ? — A. I do not know that I had any more claim on it 
than any one else — than Smith had. 

Q. Did you not express to Dr. Mott that you were offended because 
he had not given you that place? — A. I do not think I did. 



172 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Cross-examination of W. M. Walker. 
By tlie Chairman : 

Q. AVliat time were yon deputy under Collector Mott ? — A. My first 
•commission was — I was appointed the 1st of March, 1872. 

Q. Did you continue during the year 1872? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. All through? — A. As I told you, my commission never was taken 
away. It has never been revoked yet. I have worn out a half a dozen. 
I have to get a new one every once in a while. 

Q. Did you act as such all through the year 1872, and draw pay for 
it? — A. No, sir; I did not draw pay for it. I did not know how our 
accounts were cut down. I did not get any payment for everything 
^charged, though I acted as a public officer all the time. 

Q. Then right on through 1873 you continued to be deputy ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And drew pay for it as your vouchers here show ; that is true is 
it? — A. I received pay for it, but not as my vouchers here show. 

Q. But for a time I understand the pay was cut down ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Here is a voucher from March 1, 1872, to March 3L, on which 
you drewllOO; that is correct I suppose for the year 1872; then the 
next voucher is for a period commencing the 31st of December, 1872, 
and ending March 31, 1873, for which you drew $300; that is correst, is 
it? — A. That is the voucher I sent off. I did not receive that amount 
for that month, I do not think. 

Q. Y^ou generally received a hundred dollars a month? — A. My vouch- 
ers were cut down; I don't know exactly at what rate they did cut them. 
That is not the first voucher, I do not think. 

Q. That is all the one here? — A. I had four or five. 

Q. That is all th€ one of that period that is here; then there is one for 
May and June, 1873, two months — 1250 — when they increased the rate 
to a hundred and twenty-five dollars a month, service described to have 
Ibeen rendered at Statesville, Iredell County, and Cabarrus County, look- 
ing after those liable to special taxes ; also illicit distilling and the manu- 
facture and sale of tobacco. That is correct, is it? — A. I don't under- 
stand you. Those are the vouchers I signed and sent oft" in that way. 
If that is what joii mean by being correct, I performed the duty and 
sent them in in that way. 

Q. And you mean you did not get the full amount of pay as stated 
down here? — A. No, sir; I did not. 

Q. How much did you get, taking the vouchers in all for that time ? 
—A. I got $699.83. 

Q. For what term ? — A. From the 1st of September until the 

where my vouchers started from. 

Q. They start from the first of October, 1872, and run to the 30th of 
June, 1873. 

Mr. Pool. They run to May 20. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You say that for these vouchers you received A. $699.83. 

Q. Was that all you received? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Let us be certain that there is no misunderstanding about it; here 
is from October 21 to December 31, $235 (handing Exhibit 13 to wit- 
ness); you did not receive all that? — A. The amounts reported will 
show YOU what I received. 

Q. Just turn to the abstract there and see what you did receive. — 
A. (Examining). $235. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 175 

Q. Yoli received tliatf — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did yon receive that money or nott — A. I diii — $235 — from Oc- 
tober 21 to December 31. 

Q. You say you got that mouey"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, we Avill take them iu their order, and i)lease state wliat you 
did get on each one; here's the next — from December 31, 1872, to March 
31, 1873 — $300; how much did you receive of that? — A. I received 
$300. 

Q. Then we will taUe tlie uext one — April 1, 1873, and ending May 20, 
1873— $164.83; how much of that did you get?— A. $104.83. 

Q. You got that much? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then from May 1, 1873, to June 30, 1873— two montlis— $250; 
how much of that did you receive! — A. I did not get any of that. 

Q. You did not get auy of that? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Why did you not get it? — A. The department would not allow it 
to me; that is my understanding of it? 

Q. I see here that you put in a voucher from April 1, 1873, to May 
20, 1873, for $1G4?— A. And 83 cents. 

Q. And then on the next I see you iile vour voucher from May 1,. 
1873, to June 30, 1873?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then that covers May twice? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How could you do that? — A. It was a mistake of Clarke's; that 
is the reason, I think, I got knocked out of some pay. 

Q. Were you sworn to these vouchers? — A. I was, sir. 

Q. Mr. Clarke's name is attached to it as being sworn to befoi'e him 
on the 10th day of July. Mr. Clarke said in his testimony that none of 
the vouchers were sworn to; that tiiey did not swear each other in the 
ofBce, but you say you were sworn ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Dr. MoTT. Sworn by Mr. Clarke ? 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. This is your handwriting (indicating) and Clarke's thereto ? — A, 
Yes, sir. 

Q. This one from October 21 to December 31, 1872, inclusive, for $235,. 
seems to be sworn to on the 25th of August, 1874? — A. Yes, sir. ' 

Q. How did it happen that you let money due you stand so long un- 
paid? — A. W^ell, sir, I could not help myself. My vouchers were mis- 
placed in some way by Mr. Clarke, or he did not send them for me. 

Q. The money due you for April and May, 1873, the year following., 
you did get, you say ? — A. I got it all. 

Q. How did it occur that you collected or received money due you 
later, and not the money due you under the old date? — A. I collected 
it all as it come. 

Q. This amount is only sworn to on the 25th of August, 1874 ? — A.. 
That is the amended — they had it waiting for some time. I did not 
know where my money was ; I did not know what was the matter. My 
vouchers went in, and I had to make new vouchers. 

Q. Did you have to make another voucher besides this one ? — A. Yes,. 
sir. 

Q. What became of it ? — A. I do not know ; that is the reason I wa& 
knocked out of my money. 

Q. The department does not furnish any other to the committee ? — 
A. The department denied ever getting it. 

Q. That is the reason you made out this voucher ? — A. Yes, sir. 



174 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. This voucher was sworn to before a man by the name of John B. 
Kicks, clerk ? — A. He is a clerk in Taylorville. 

Q. Korth Carolina ? — A. No, sir ; of Illinois. 

Q. Were you out there at that time ? — A. I was. I guess the seal is 
on there — " Christian County, Illinois." 

Q. You were out there when this voucher was made, 1874 ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I had gone to Illinois, and left Clarke as a sort of collector for me. 
He informed me that he had misplaced my vouchers, or something of 
that sort, and asked me to send in new ones. 

Q. And this voucher for $250 for May and June, 1873, you never got 
the money on at all ? — A. No, sir ; I did not get any. 

Q. The others, I believe, you say you received ; you made out original 
vouchers, as I understand, for these cases where you failed to get them 
paid, because the vouchers were never received by the department, and 
you left them with Clarke? — A. That is my recollection. Clarke made 
them oat for me. Clarke made out all of my accounts. We did not 
know how to make out our accounts. I used to help him in the office 
in any way I could, and so would get him to help me. That is the rea- 
son my accounts were made out in his handwriting. 

Q. Here are vouchers filed regularly, covering every day from the 21st 
of October to the 30th of June, and doubling on 20 days of May, the 
vouchers covering that period twice? — A. Yes, sirj vouchers covering 
that did not receive. 

Q. Now, were you not a ganger receiving full and regular pay at the 
same time ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How do you explain that ; could you hold the two offices at once? — 
A. I was so informed I could. 

Q. Who informed you you could hold two offices at once and draw 
pay at the same time ? — A. Mr. Crane, the first agent that ever came to 
North Carolina ; and also heard Colonel Henderson say it was gene- 
rally done in the district under the Wiley administration. 

Q. Did you ever see that that was the law? — A. No, sir 5 I did not 
know that I noticed the law. 

Q. You just took what they told you ? — A. I took what they told me, 
and all they would give me. 

Q. I see for the month of September, 1872, you had a $130.12 as a 
ganger; that is correct, is it (handing vouchers to him)? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And for the month of October, 1872, you drew $160.83 ; that is 
correct, is it? — A. I guess it is; I cannot remember (examining vouch- 
er); that is correct; it is in my handwriting. 

Mr. Pool. Is that an original op-^'ameuded voucher? 

The Chairman. Original vouchers furnished me from the depart- 
ment this morning. 

Q. And for November, the same year, $144.12 ? — A. I guess these are 
correct ; these are my monthly bills. I sometimes have been cut out of 
a little of them. 

Q. You were sometimes cut out of a little of them? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How so? — A. We had a certain percentage for the amount of 
work we done, and there were mistakes made in my accounts. They 
were cut down a little, I believe. The accounts always came back, and 
I had to make new ones. 

Q. You think the mistakes were corrected in that way? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And for the month of December, 1873, $143.52; and for January, 
$142.02 (the witness examining each); and for February, $160.53; and 
:for March, $166.57; and for April, $153.22; and for May, $170.08; and 
-for June, $101.48. These are all the vouchers. Did other deputies re- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 175 

coive pay in two capacities at the same time, that you kuow off — A. 
Not that I know of. I suppose some of them did; I do not know any- 
thing about it. 

Q. You cannot give me the name of any deputy who did? — A. Not of 
my own knowhMlge. 

Q. How mucli of that money did you give for campaign purposes, for 
the support of the party ? — A. At the time I got the money there was 
no campaign going on. 

Q. There was a campaign going on in the fall of 1872, was there 
not? — A. Not after November. 

Q. How much did you contribute in that fall to that campaign ? — A. 
I declare I don't remember that 1 contributed anything. 

Q. Nothing at all?— A. No, sir. 

Q. How much have you contributed, according to the best of your 
recollection, since you have been in office? — A. Well, sir, in the last 
campaign 1 contributed $50. 

Q. You mean the campaign on prohibition? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You mean the Presidential campaign? — A. The Presidential cara- 
ivaign. 

Q. You did not contribute a full month's salary as the others did? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. How much did you give to the last campaign — the prohibition 
campaign? — A. 1 don't know; I did not contribute anything particu- 
larly; I sort of went around and spent my money where it would do the 
most good. 

Q. Individually? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You did not send it to the executive committee? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever make any claim for this $250 voucher put in, which 
you say you did not receive? — A. No, sir; I never made another. 

Q. Who told you that that was not right? — A. 1 think Mr. Clarke in- 
formed me that was all I could get ; that he made an equal division 
amongst us, as near as he could. The Commissioner refused to give 
any more money. 

Q. Did you know why your vouchers were not included in the origi- 
nal abstract, if you had been doing service? — A. No, sir; I don't. 

Q. I see in the amended abstract for the quarter ending June 30, 
1873, you received $164.83; the May and June vouchers for that period 
you say were refused? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Yet I find you credited witti $104.83. Now what was that for; it 
cannot have been for the month of April? — A. April up to May 20. 

Q. You say May and June were both refused? — A. The next voucher 
went back to it — doubled me 20 days of the month, which was a mistake 
of Clarke's in some way. 

Q. A mistake of somebody's, at all events. In the original abstract, 
covering the last quarter of 1872, your name is not among them, or down 
at all for anything. You do not appear there as a deputy, and in the 
amended abstract it is put down for $235. Can you tell me why the 
original voucher did not contain your name ? — A. No, sir ; I cannot. 

Q. Was ever any explanation given to you why it did not ? — A. I did 
not know till now that it was not on the original voucher. 

Q. Itisso,isitnot? (HandingExhibitl4 to witness.) — A. (Examining.) 
I see it is not there. 

Q. And you were doing duty regularly at that time? — A. Yes, sir; I 
]eft all my business of that kind with Mr. Clarke. 

Q. You say that the revenue officers had a very hard time down there 
for several years ? — A. Yes, sir. 



176 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. They were abused, reviled, and so on. Did any of them behave 
iu such a way as to give ground for the disrespect of the community ?— 
A. I do not know; none I ever had with me ever did. 

Q. You got into some little trouble yourself, did you not ? — A. Yes,, 
sir. 

Q. And was indicted in the courts ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And went away in consequence of it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. That was not the reason of your going off? 

Mr. Pool. In the State courts ? 

The Chairman. The State courts. 

Q. "What were you indicted for? — A. For disturbing a camp-meetingv 

Q. How did you disturb it ? — A. I did not disturb it. 

Q. What were you doing that you were accused of disturbing a camp- 
meeting? — A. I was accused. 

Q. How so ? — A. I had three or four Democratic enemies, very bitter 
against the revenue officers, who swore out a warrant for me, and L 
refused to be arrested. 

Q. What did they accuse you of doing as the reason for swearing out 
a warrant? — A. Disturbing a religious camp-meeting. 

Q. How so 5 what was the act? — A. I do not know. I never saw the 
w^arrant. 

Q. But you heard what they accused you of? — A. That was all I ever 
heard ; T never saw the warrant. I never saw what was brought against 
me. 

Q. Did they not accuse you of taking out of your pocicet one of those 
things that was called a "cundum"? — A. I believe that was sworn in 
the court-house. 

Q. And you blowed it up, so as to resemble a man's iJenis, and showed 
it to the ladies ? — A. I do not know whether that was sworn to or not.. 

Q. Wasnot that the accusation? — A. For something of that kind-, not. 
sworn against me, sir; it never went to trial. 

Q. It was never brought to trial. The case was fixed up only by Col- 
onel Armfield appearing for you, you submitting, and judgment sus- 
pended on i^ayment of the costs ? — A. Ko, sir ; Armfield was not em- 
ployed. 

Q. In speaking yesterday of the danger attending revenue ofiicers in. 
the execution of their duty, you used the word in some of the " danger- 
ous" counties; which one do you consider was of that kind?— A. I con-- 
sidered Wilkes — some parts of it. 

Q. And Yadkin? — A. No, sir; Yadkin was not a very dangerous, 
county. The South Mountains was the dangerous part of the county.. 
Eight in the three corners there where Catawba, Cleveland, and Lincoln 
runup there a little ways, and Polk County, called the "Dark Corners," 
right on the South Carolina border, by Tryon City, was considered 
dangerous. 

Q. Was not Wilkes County a Eepublican county at that time? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Was not Polk County Eepublican at that time? — A. I am not 
acquainted with Polk County. 

Q. Was not the South Mountain country you speak of a Eepublican > 
country — the precincts in the county to which it was attached? — ^A. I 
do not know as to that. The leading men of the county are Democrats^ 
I mean of the section ; and the leading blockaders were Democrats. 
Capt. Jake Mull, who represented the county, he ran for the legislature, 
maybe he was defeated, is a leader in the country, and the biggest 
blockader in it — he and his brother. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 177 

Q. What I want you to say is— if it is the tvutb, not otlierwisc — was 
the blockadinfif contined to any paiticuhir party? — A. No. sir; I do not 
think tliat it was — not confined to any particular party. 

(^). Men of all parties were enfta.ued in it? — A. Yes, sir. 

(^). And disturbances and hostility to the revenue officers was not 
contined to any particular party ? — A. That I cannot say, because they 
alwiiys came on us in the dark — fired on us from the bush and so on; 
but as a general tiling our foes always are Democrats. 

Q. Those that stand out and talk to you in daylight; but those who 
tired on you from the bushes in the dark you could not tell who they 
xvere'.' — A. No, sir; we were fired on at (Japtain ^Mull's house. 

(}. You say for a long while wlien the public sentiment was very 
strong in that mountain country you could not get anything to eat?— 
A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. l>id the Eepublicans refuse to give you something to eat ? — A. I 
am not well enough acquainted with the politics of the country to know 
whether we asked Republicans or Democrats. 

Q. Did you not know that in every settlement in the Brushy jNIoun- 
tains,the South Mountains, and all around, there were some substantial 
l)eople, who had continued to belong to the Republican party, who have 
refused to lieli) you in your diflflcuUies? — A. I do not know, sir; lam 
not well enough acquainted ; but can say at one time, when we could 
not get anything. Captain Wilcox, in Ashe, let us have all we needed. 
I do not know whether he was a Democrat or Republican. 

Q. He was a. Democrat at that time and afterwards changed. Of 
course, if you did not know the people's politics you could not tell 
whetlier they were Republicans or Democrats who refused to give you 
something to eat ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you not find generally in the earlier days that the revenue 
officers were carrying things with a very high hand ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They freciuently made bravado with their pistols, tiring them oft 
and scaring iieojde ? — A. No, sir ; none in my squad ever did that. 

Q. Have you not heard complaints of that kind from the people ? — 
A. I have heard comi)laints of everything against the revenue officers. 

Q. Do you know whether the revenue officers did not some time ago 
go aroun<i with the marshal making arrests ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And do you not know that it was charged and believed that these 
marshals carried warrants signed in blank, so as to arrest any one they 
pleased ?— A. Not that I know of. I think the marshals had instruc- 
tions if they caught a man in the country violating the law they had a 
right to arrest him. 

Q. They had blank warrants ?— A. They held warrants, I know. They 
rode out "always with warrants, and the marshals worked under those 
instructions. 

Q. They rode out with warrants ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, the marshal along with you, finding a respectable man, but 
whom he believed was a nmn worthy to be arrested for something, did 
the marshal go back to town for any commissioner to sign the warrant, 
or did he just pull the warrant out knd fill it up ?— A. I think generally 
they had a name on them in my squad. 

Q. How is it that when a young Democrat received an appointment 
he was expected to vote the Republican ticket ? — A. No, sir. Generally 
it was expected when he appoints him the Democrats will kick him out, 
and he will have to come to the Republicans. 

Q. And the result is he does come ?— A. They kick him out every 
time when he starts. 

S. Mis. IIG 12 



178 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Do you not know of some eases where men were indicted for 
blockading', and judg'ment was suspended against tbem, and tliey came 
out good Eepublicans ? — A. I do not know as I do. 

Q. What about Jim Williams f — A. I do not know anything about 
liim. 

Q. Jim Williams was a fierce Democrat at the start, was he not? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he not get into trouble about blockading ? — A. I think he had 
Bome whiskj' seized in Statesville. It is my recollection of it, but it is 
before my time as a revenue officer. 

Q. Did be not come out a good Republican after paying the costs? — 
A. I don't know whether he is a good Eepublicau or not. 

Q. He professes to be ? — A. He professes to be. 

Q. Did not Tom Cooper, the present collector, have some illicit whisky 
seized? — A. l!?'ot that I know of. 

Q. You never heard of that '? — A. No, sir. 

Q. His teams seized and sold, and he was bound over before Mr, 
Holmes, commissioner at Salisbury ? — A. I never beard of that. 

Q. He was a Democrat, was he not ? — A. Yes, sir, at one time. 

Q. Soon afterwards be became a candidate for the legislature on the 
Republican ticket, did be not"? — A. I do not know when the teams 
were seized, I know be was a candidate. I do not know whether soon 
after or not. 

Q. Did you hear him make any speeches when a candidate ? — A. No, 
.sir; I do not think I heard Cooper make a speech in that campaign. 

Q. Some of the Sharpes were Democrats that are now in the revenue 
rservice, were they not ? — A. Yes, sir ; Mr. Clate Sharpe represents the 
legislature from our county. 

Q. What ])osition did be get in the revenue service '? — A. A deputy 
collector. 

Q. O. M. Barkley was a Democrat was be not ? — A. Not that I 
remember of. 

Q. Was not Hayne Davis a Democrat ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Was not John Peden, in Wilkes County ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He became a Eepublican and got what office ? — A. I do not know ; 
be is a Eepublican now. 

Q. When you were in Illinois, did you write for the vouchers to be 
sent to you, or did somebody write to you and ask you to send a 
voucher? — A. I left Mr. Clarke to attend to my business forme. He 
wrote me that he bad lost mj^ vouchers, or had misplaced them iu the 
office, and asked me to make new vouchers, so as to get my money. 

Q. Did you know when Mr. Clarke went out"? — A. No, sir; I do not 
remember. 

Q. It was in 1874, was it not? — A. Yes, sir ; I believe it was, I don't 
remember. 

Q. You told us yesterday that these certificates — abstracts of the 
original vouchers — were not iu Dr. Mott's handwriting, that one, for 
instance (handing the witness an exhibit of 1S73) ; you said the same 
thing of those of 1872? — A. The last one I did not hardly think was. 
I am not as positive of it as of the two first. 

Q. Did you ever bear Dr. Mottdeny that these were bis signatures "? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever talk with Mr. Clarke about it?— A. To Joe Clarke? 
No, sir; never. 

Q. He was gone before you came back from Illinois ? — A. No, sir; 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 170 

lie was there when I came back from lUiiioi.s. He staid niidei' Cooper 
awhile. 

Q. ])id you never talk with him about it? — A. ]S"o, sir; I never 
thouuht about tlie i)ai)ers. 

Q. Did Dr. ]\Iott ever say to yon how it came that he jmt in vcmchers 
that were not true ; that Clarice had prepared them and signed just as 
a matter of form without his looking- at them? — A. Xo, sir. 

Q. What did he say to you about it ? — A. He never said anything to 
me about it that I remember of. I don't think the Doctor ever talked 
with me about the matter. We were talking about Clarke's con<luct in 
the office, and so on; that the influence of whisky had made Clarke 
make mistakes, and so on. 

Q. Was Clarke a drinking man ? — A. Yes, sir; he got on a little 
sj)ree occasionally — a goo<l-sized one. 

Q. How long did he do that before he left? — A. I think he quit 
drinking before I left, or afterwards; he had been on a spree and 
straightened up. There was not a great deal of work in the oflice very 
often. When he got his business straightened uj) at the end of a month, 
he would go on a spree, especially when the doctor was off; whenever 
he heard the doctor was in town, he would straighten u}) and go to 
work. 

Q. Would Mr. Clarke accomplish the work very fast — did he do his 
work fast and well ? — A. He was a very good clerk when straight. 

Q. Did he get ahead of the business and then take a spree? — A. He 
would get up with his Ijusiness and take a spree. 

Q. Is the doctor about the office much ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he give proper attention to the duties of his office? — A. I 
was not capable of knowing- what the ])roper attention was at that time. 
He was there in his room when he was in town all the time ; quite often ; 
nearly always writing- in the private office of his own. 

Q. He was present then at his place of business, in his private office, 
nearly all the time? — A. Yes, sir; but he i)aid very little attention to 
the revenue part of it. I don't think he knew much aliout it. Mr. 
Clarke was the only man he had there who did. Dr. Mott was there 
sometimes, but did not know anything about the revenue business. 

Q. When a deputy is appointed and commissioned was there usually 
a record made of it at the office ? — A. I don't know, sir, whether so or 
not. 

Q. Would they put down in the book "W. M. Walker, appointed 
deputy" such and such a date ? — A. It is now, but at that time I don't 
think it was. I don't recollect of an3' account being kei)t of it. 

Q. When a man is discharged, is there any entry made in the books 
of it ? — A. His name is just crossed out in our list. Now there is public 
list for every one, showing- each dei>uty, his division, the county where 
he works; but nothing of that kind was done at the time when Clarke 
was there. 

Q. At that time, in 1872, how many dei)uties were there ? — A. There 
were only three regular dei>uties, I think — three or four besides Clarke. 
1 don't knoAv them, 

Q. There were not so many that the chief clerk was likely to forget 
them, would he? — A. 'So, sir. He might forget them in ten years; I 
could not tell who the deputies were at that time. 

Q. At the time he made out the vouchers he would hardly forget who 
was in the office? — A. Mr. Clarke said that he forgot that Kestler was 
not a deputy. That is very likely, because changes are made there 
from one time to another. 



180 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Mr. Clarke, the chief clerk, kuew all the changes, did he not? — A, 
He ought to have known it. 

Q. When drawing money from the government, he ought to know 
who was to draw it? — A. Yes, sir, I think so. 

Q. If he made out vouchers for men who had not been in the office 
for nine months, would you think that he forgot that honestly? — A. 1 
have no doubt he did — not in the least. 

Q. Perhaps he was on one of his sprees at the time? — A. When there 
making out reports he was alwaj's on a sort of a spree; he would write 
just as long as he could when he got on one of those sprees. 

Q. Would he not be apt to remember, when sober, that he had made 
out a voucher for a man who was not in the service at all? — A. 1 don't 
know. He was one of those sleepy-drinking kind of men. I have 
known him to sleep about 24 hours in the day. 

By Mr . Pool : 

Q. Talking about the matter of Mr. Clarke where you left it off", you 
say he was sent down by the supervisor in 1872? — A. That I don't 
know, sir; I only remember of being introduced to Mr. Clarke as Dr. 
Mott's clerk. 

Q. Everything was left into his hands during that summer of 1872 ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was not Dr. Mott off in that campaign ? — A. He was gone a good 
part of the time. 

Q. Was he not away from town a good part of time on other busi- 
ness? — A. Yes, sir; I don't know what the l3usiness was. 

Q. During that time in which he was away, Mr. Clarke would get on 
these drinking frolics of his ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you have no doubt that Mr. Clarke honestly made the mis- 
take of putting Kestler's in when he was not in ? — A. I have not the 
least doubt. 

Q. You were asked just now and were shown one of the official 
vouchers of the department, extending from October 21 to December 
31, whether your name appeared on the original abstract that was ])ut 
in. You said your name did not apx^ear on it at all,-but on the amended 
abstract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did not Mr. Kestler's name appear on the original abstract in your 
place ? — A. I would have to look at it. (The abstract handed to the 
witness.) (Examining.) Yes, sir. 

Q. Kestler's name appears there when your name ought to appear ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that is the mistake that Mr. Clarke made about which all this 
fuss occurred ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. That was corrected in the amended voucher your name put in ; 
and Kestler's name left out? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And Clarke's mistake was corrected when it was discovered? — A. 
Y'es, sir. 

The Chairman. He does not know anything about when the mistake 
was discovered. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. Do you recollect shortly after this ]\[r. Clarke quit drinking ? — A. 

I don't know. ]\Ir. Clarke would stop yvery time the doctor would come 

home and sort of pin down on him whatever time he could get to see 

him. Clarke would go off and hide himself. The doctor would come 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLIXA 131 

to see liini and make him straighten up, and then he woukl stay sober 
until everything- was straightened up. 

Q. That went on to some time in 1874, when Mr. Chirke went out of 
the service ? — A. 1 don't know exactly what rime he went out. 

Q. You acted both as a ganger and deputy part of the time and drew 
l>ay for both? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The items you gave of 8-3.>, up to December 31, and 8300 from 
thence to March 31, and 61G4.83 thence to May I'li, were paid to you as 
a deputy ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And they aggregated, I see, 8(>09,s;3, which you stated in your 
original examination you received at the time as deputy f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That did not embrace anything- you leceived as ganger during that 
time? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You held those two offices, you say, as you supposed rightfully, 
because Mr. Crane said it was all right ; who was Mr. Crane ? — A. He 
was the agent who came down there from AVashiugton. 

Q. From the dei)artment here ? — A. I think seut there from the de- 
l)artment here. 

Q. And it was under instructions from Mr. Crane that such a thing 
was done? — A. Under the instructions — what he said down there. 

Q. It came from an officer here ? — A. Yes,, sir. Under that and the 
other collectors having already acted as I said. 

Q. You mean Wiley ? — A. Under Mr. Wiley and Mr. Henderson, men 
acting- as assessors and deputies, and gangers and assessors. 

Q. That had been done previously in the revenue department under 
the previous administrations ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As gangers you received a per cent, on the amount gauged"? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And it was by that per cent, that the amount which the chairman 
read about from the vouchers was made out? — A. Yes, sir: and with 
my exi>enses. 

Q. Were they correctly made up? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were they allowed by the department '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you render service honestly for the amounts for which they 
were made up ? — A. I did, sir. 

Q. Did the department afterwards cut down that allowance? — A. 
Only Avhere I would make a mistake. 

Q. Did they afterward change that mode of paying gangers? — A. 
Yes, sir. It has been changed two or three times since that day. I am 
not exactly acquainted with the amounts paid them now ; think it is 
changed a good deal. 

Q. You were speaking of how they were paid at that time ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. If you had gauged sufficient spirits your amount, instead of being 
810G a month, might have been two or three hundred dollars or any 
other amount — might have run away beyond these amounts ? — A. Yes, 
sir. We had an order from the Commissioner some time in September, 
1872, that we would not be allowed over 80 a day ; that our amounts in 
the month should not run over 89 a day. 

Q. That would be 8-70 a month ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Yours did not exceed at anytime 810G a month? — A. That in- 
cludes expenses, 89 a day for gauging ; allowed 83 a day for horse and 
buggy. 

Q. Were you active, personally, in political campaigns about that 
time? — A. No, sir; I always did a little talking where I was passing 
alouff. 



182 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Were you guilty of the charge brought against you about disturb- 
ing that camp-meeting? — A. Well, the men who swore I disturbed the 
camp-meeting were a hundred yards oif. After they undertook to arrest 
me I disturbed them right smartly. 

Q. How ? — A. I knocked one of them down and kicked two or three. 

Q. What became of the prosecution ? — A. It was compromised. 

Q. Do you recollect if the prosecution was during the time of your 
residence in the West — did it get into court? — A. Yes, sir. I did not 
appear; I never saw the warrant. I did not get wind, of it before I got 
there; they said that if I paid the costs they would let me oft". I never 
paid any attention to it. I was fixing to leave the State of North Caro- 
lina at the time. 

Q. You did not want to leave with this hanging over you ? — A. Yes, 
sir, I left. I was going to leave anyway; I did not allow them to arrest 
me, but I did not stop for it. I got out of the county before the grand 
jury met. 

Q. Were you under the imi)ression that it was a piece of political 
persecution? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You said just now that a few of your political enemies in that par- 
ticular locality got it up ? — A. I always thought that and always will. 
One of them was a relation of mine. 

Q. And they dismissed the prosecution on your payment of the costs ? 
— A. Yes, sir, 

Q. I think that a warrant, or a copy of it, has been on exhibition 
here, embracing Mr. Thomas Cooper's name, the present collector, as 
having violated the internal-revenue laws, by blockading occurring in 
18G7; that was 15 years ago, was it not? — A. I was not there 15 years 
ago. 

Q. That was before you went into the service ? — A. I did not go in 
till 1872. 

Q. You never heard or knew anything about it ; it occurred back in 
18l>7, and that will explain why you did not hear of it ? — A. Well, sir, 
it might have died out by the time I got old enough to pay any atten- 
tion to it. I was at school at that time. 

Q. Did you know he was never indicted on account of it at aH?^A. 
I know nothing about it at all. I never heard he was accused of it. 

The following witness was called on behalf of Dr. Mott. 

H. X. DwiRE sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. I desire to examine you about the ass'essment for oflSce ex- 
penses. Will you state whether there was an account made up of the 
disbursement of money collected for office expenses ? — Answer. There 
was. 

Q. "Will you state anything about what you know of it — the way it 
Avas done, and whether the money was honestly expended or not, and 
all about it ? — A. There was no allowance made for certain expenses 
that we had to incur. That we in the office had paid for sometime, and 
the circular was issued by Dr. Mott calling on the other officers to assist. 
That it was not right for a part to pay all and others not. He wanted 
to equalize it, and it was applied as needed, for those necessary ex- 
penses connected with the office. 

Q. That was done for the purj^ose of equalizing the weight that was 
thrown upon the office, by the failure to allow certain expenses that 
were necessary ? — A. Yes, sir. ' 



THE SIXTH DISTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 183 

Q. Did you keep an account? — A. Yes, sir. I ma«le up an account 
when the revenue anient called for it. 

(}. Was the auKunit that was collected honestly expended for that 
purpose ? — A. It was. 

Q. For no other ? — A. Xo other, to my knowledge ; and it could not 
be expended without my knowledge. 

Q. Without your knowledge? — A. I do not think it could. I was 
kee[)ing the account. 

Q. Were you custodian of the fund? — A. I was. 

(^). And had charge of the disbursement of them ? — A. 1 had; how- 
ever, that was not so altogether; sometimes I was away from the office 
and some little expenses Mr. Brown would sometimes jxiy out. I i)aid 
when I was there. 

Q. You think these disbiTrsements were honestly conducted in all re- 
si>ects? — A. They were. 

Q. How much did each officer pay ? — A. It varied considerably im 
amount. 

i}. Because it was 1 i)er cent, of the salaries ? — A. That was called for,, 
but some did not respond, and some were never called upon at all. When 
the circular was sent out, about such as \vere on duty at that time. We 
never sent out to the others when they went on duty. 

(}. Y'ou say you always tried to keep enough money on hand to meet 
current exi)euses ? — A. Yes, sir. o 

Q. Was there always enough? — A. After the first contributions. 

Q. You did not find it necessary to press a man who was reluctant to 
pay ? — A. I do not know who had i)aid and who had not. The money I 
recollect was i)laced in a large enveloiie and put in the safe to itself. 
This euvehipe was taken out and the vouchers put in for disbursements 
whenever we got bills or vouchers. Little items we regarded as a ])rivato 
matter, and Dr. Mott remarked that these little ex[)enses would show 
for themselves without having a regular voucher for them. 

Q. A man with the name of J. X. Summers thought he said that he 
had paid a dollar a month for about 24 months, or not quite so much — 
approximately I think it amounted up to $16? — A. That, I think, to the 
best of my recollection, I have not the vouchers now, or the memoranda ; 
that is more than any man paid. I will make a statement about him. 
He was in the office one day and asked me the question how much he 
Avas due. Says I, ''I don't know anything about it; I never made up 
the ac>;(Rint." He said, "I have not time to run here day and night in 
order to show every dollar which is put in that fuud." Says I, "Never 
mind, whenever we need it we will let you know. I think there is 
enough for i)resent use, and when I make out the account if anything 
is needed I will let you know." 

Q. Y'ou think that Mr. Summers was mistaken about its running up 
to 810 ? — A. He certainly was. I do not think Mr. Summers was on duty 
but a short time — a few months is my recollection — and only paid a few 
<lollars. 

Q. That account was made up by you afterwards for *3.2() ? — A . What- 
ever it was; whatever I found the memorandum set down. 

Q. Do you think he ever paid to any one luore than that ? — A. 1 do 
not think he did. 

Q. Did you send out any letter to those making inquiry in reg.ard to 
what amount they had ]»aid for office cxpen-es? — A. Yes, sir, I did. 

Q. What did that l^^tter contain, and for what purpose was it writ, 
ten ? — A. Tliat they might answer the letter from the Commissioner cor- 
rectly. A good nmny people wrote to know what amount they had 



184 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

given. They had kept no memorandum. I looked at the book and 
wrote them the amount, and answered some other inquiries also that 
they made about it. Some did not understand the letter — what it 
meant — why it was sent out. 

Q. It all related to this office expense? — A. Yes, sir; I so explained 
to them in this letter, that it had reference to office expenses alone. 

Q. You explained that it did not apply to political assessments'? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. There was a letter written by the Commissioner to these officers — 
something in regard to this matter — political assessments, or official ex- 
penses, or something of that sort, was there notf — A. There was a letter 
in regaidto the incidental expenses. 

Q. Written by the Commissioner? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. To the various officers of the district? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever give these officers iustructions how to answer it ! — A. I 
gave instructions how to answer it — that it was for incidental expenses, 
and not for campaign purposes. The question had been asked me by 
some one whether it meant campaign purposes; and, by the way, some 
of them answered in that way — how much they had contributed to the 
campaign. 

Q. That was not the purport of the Commissioner's letter at all? — A. 
No, sir. * 

Q. You simply explained, in answer to the inquiry, what was the true 
puri)ort of the Commissioner's letter, that it applied only to office ex- 
penses, and not to this campaign contribution? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Some of them mistook the matter in answering the Commissioner's 
letter, and that he was inquiring about campaign expenses ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And they put in a very considerable amount — more than they 
paid for office expenses? — A. Yes, sir; I got one letter where a man 
thanked me for writing him, saying that he had inadvertently answered 
the other incorrectly, and had made an explanation of it. 

Q. That produced some mistake by their replies to the Commis- 
sioner? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And increased the amonnt for office expenses far beyond what it 
actually was? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were a number of years there in Statesville with Dr. Mott, 
were you not? — A. I was not in the office all the time. I was in the of- 
fice from May 1st, 1879, until about June 15, 1881. I was deputy collec- 
tor from 1870. 

Q. Were ycu a storekeeper ])art of the time? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Are you still in the revenue service? — A. I am. 

Q. In another district ? — A. In the 5th district. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with the 6th district? — A. I am Avith cer- 
tain parts of the district. 

Q. State whether years ago there was a great deal of trouble in col- 
lecting 1 he revenue, and about the state of teeliug on this subject, so far 
as you know ? — A. There was. 

Q. Has there been much improvement? — A. Yes, a great deal of an 
improvement up to the time I left there, so far as my knowledge ex- 
tends. 

Q. Was Dr. Mott diligently trying to bring about such improve- 
ments ? — A. He was. 

Q. Did you notice the general conduct of the office by Dr, Mott when 
under his sujiervision, or the manner in which it was generally con- 
ducted ? — A. Yes. sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 185 

Q. Was it well done ? — A. I tbiuk it was. 

Q. Honestly ?— A. I tbiuk so. 

Q. With integrity? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever see any effort to defraud any of his deputies or sub- 
ofificers ? — A. I never saw anythiug of the kind. 

Q. Or the misai)plication of funds in any way'? — A. I never have. 

Q. Have you ever known of official misconduct on the part of Dr. 
IVIott, of any character ? — A. I never have. 

Q. Do you know his general character in the community? — A. I 
think I do. 

Q. What is it?— A. It is good. 

Q. In what resi»ect is it good ? — A. It is good as to his being a gen- 
tleman of integrity; but I don't know as I can hardly exi)ress it — it is 
in every resi)ect good. 

Q. Is it bad in any resi)ect ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any man in that country who stands higher so- 
cially ? — A. I do not. I have heard, as politics were referred to, even 
a number of Democrats S]ieak of him in the very highest terms socially 
as a man of high regard. Of course when thej' speak of him politi- 
cally it is different. 

Q. Do they talk about him as a man and an officer ? — A. Yes, sir ; as 
a man and an officer he stands high. 

Q. There have been several of these charges and denunciations of 
improper conduct in the district in collecting revenue; have they had 
any effect upon his character at all ? Do they make men think less of 
Dr. Mott ? — A. I think not; I think he stands much higher today than 
possibly he did in the ])ast. 

Q. Do you think then that the thinking good men of that section 
believe any of these reports that are gotten up upon him ? — A. I have 
lieard men express their satisfaction that there would be nothing against 
him that was willfully wrong. 

Q. Their belief that there would be no wrong ever proved ? — A. That 
was their belief. 

Cross-examination, by the Chaikxan : 

Q. When this levy was made for office expenses, bow may officers 
were thereon duty in that district? — A. I do not know for certain ; I 
suppose from 60 to 100 ; might reach a little over on duty at the time — 
probably 75. 

Q. The Commissioner of Internal Revenue reports 295 distilleries in 
operation during the year ? — A. Y'es, sir ; about that. 

Q. Was there not a storekeeper to every distillery ? — A. Those that 
were operating. 

Q. lie reports that many operated during the year? 

Mr. rooL. In operation all the time ? 

The Chairman. He does not say inoi)eration all the time, but in ope- 
ration during the year. 

Q. There was a storekeeper to each one of them ? — A. Yes, sii. 

Q. How many deputies were there ? — A. About 13 or 14 regular. 

Q. How many si>ecial ? — A. They vary according to the allowance. 

Q. On an average, how many ? — A. I suppose there would be, per- 
haps — I dou't know as I could say positively — sometimes on and some- 
times not, G or 8, and just as high as IG or 20. 

Q. Would it average ten ? — A. I suppose it would average teu. 

Q. How many general storekee]>ers ? — A. From three to live. In the 
last year thev have been increased some. 



186 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. How many were there Mlien the circular was issued I — A. I think 
there were there perhaps five at that time. 

Q. Five general storekeepers ?— A. I think, though I am not positive^ 
that there was. 

Q. Now, if all the distilleries were in operation, and all these other 
officers were added to the clerks, and so forth, it would be about 200 
officers to whom this circular was seut out ? — A. It never went to that 
many; thej- were made out one evening. 

Q. How many were sent out ? — A. I think probably somewhere in the 
neighborhood of a hundred ; not certain. 

Q. Suppose there were ; that would have been a hundred dollars a 
month I — A. YeS;^ sir. 

Q. Did your office expenses amount to $100 a month ? — x^. No, sir ; 
half the amount of it was left. 

Q. What expenses were there which you had no right to pay for out 
of the funds of the office? — A. There was a messenger ; the department 
did not make any allow'ance for a messenger. Then we had to have 
some printing done ; the department made no allowance for it. Then 
we had some other things or expenses which were not allowed, and could 
not be, and we had to i)ay the money. For instance, postage. Mail 
matter was held for light postage from persons sending to us for stamps. 

Q. Did not the government make any allowance for postage ? — A. 
This was really persons sending for stamps. They had not paid full 
postage, and we either had to let the letter remain in the office or iraj 
the postage. 

Q. The government allows you something for postage ? — A. The gov- 
ernment don't allow anything in that way for mail received. The gov- 
ernment made an appropriation for sending out all official matter. 

Q. Did it allow nothing for check-books ? — A. No, sir ; the}' decided 
that the banks should furnish the books, and the banks failed to or re- 
fused. 

Q. How much did you pay the messenger ? — A. About $10 a month } 
I am not certain ; it was set down in the account. 

Q. I see in the account tiled here, purporting to be an account prepared 
by you, that when the account was taken there was $157 there that you 
had never expended. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. AVhat did you do with that I — A. Part of that was expended for 
other necessary things about the office by ourselves. When 1 left there, 
or some time before, I turned it over to the collector. I am not certain 
of the amount that was turned over. 

Q. Did you keep any books of these amounts you collected ? — A.'l 
made out a report in a book from letters and memorandums lying there. 

Q. That was when the officer called on you for this account ; but 
when you commenced c )llecting this amount and receiving it, did you 
keep any books ; did you enter an^^ account of what you received reg- 
ularly ? — A. I did not enter it everyday; just put it in an envelope, 
and once or twice we took out and entered up what was received, and 
the balance was there. 

Q. What did you enter it up upon ? — A. A book. 

Q. Wbat book ?— A. The book I purchased for it. 

Q. Where is that book ?— A. I am not certain ; I think that was left 
there in the office somewhere when I left. 

Q. You told the committee that Dr. Mott's character was very high ; that 
youneverheirdof any official misconduct on his part or anything against 
his integrity, and so on. Did you ever hear of anything against his . 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 187 

officors? — A. I cannot say; have heard general rumors against theiu, 
maybe. 

Q. What time you were in his employ you never he.ird of anything 
wrong on the part of any of his ofitlcers ? — A. If I stated that, I did not 
mean to say tliat; I have heard rumors against his officers. 

Q. Do you know of any charges made and investigated, and store- 
keepers dismissed for misconduct, and so forth ? — A. I think now I have 
known of some being dismissed. 

Q. They were not dismissed for good conduct, were they? — A. 1 wisli 
to be understood. I did not understand the question in regard to Dr. 
Mott and his officers. 

Q. The committee has charge of investigating the whole system, — 
A. I want to correct the answer as to the officers: it was alleged — of 
course they could not be discharged for good conduct. 

Q. I will ask you if you did not hear of a great deal of misconduct 
ou the part of the officers, and general complaint '! — A. At one time, some 
few years ago, I heard a great deal said, but that was a general thing — 
abusing officers, particularly those in the revenue — and I paid little or no 
attention to it. 

Q. I am referring to official abuses charged against the collector's 
office here in Washington, and against the department, and investiga- 
tions made and the men dismissed, &c. Was there not a good deal of 
that in that district? — A. We had a luimber of officers. I do not think 
there was. 

Q. Taking out the large number of officers, do you not think there was 
a great deal? — A. Not in pro[»ortion to tlie number of officers, I think. 
At one time there was some investigation, but I don't know of my own 
knowledge. When Mr. Crane was down there he had a few discharged 
ou their reports, after some discoveries. I was not connected with the 
revenue at tliat time, and I cannot think of any great number since that 
have been dismissed. There have been some, though. 

Q. What years were you in the office? — A. From 1879 to 1881 I Avas 
in the collector's office. I was deputy collector of a division before that. 

Q. What did you do in the office? — A. I was in the stamp depart- 
ment; issuing stamps was my principal business, and I kept up the re- 
cords. 

Q. Did you have any means of knowing the amounts of political as- 
sessments collected in 1880 for campaign purposes! — A. I did not know 
anything about that. 

Q. You were there at the office? — A. I was there at the office, but I 
did not know. 

Q. You know that the officers were pretty generally assessed, and 
paid? — A. I think so; that was the understanding. 

Q. A month's salary at a time, was it not? — A. I do not know that 
of my own knowledge. I have heard some storekeepers say that they 
jjaid a month's salary. 

Q. How much did you pay ? — A. I did not pay anything that year. 
Inasmuch as I did not, I reckon an explanation will not be out of place. 
AVheu the circular of ^Nlr. Cooper came out, 1 said my salary would not 
justify me in giving very much. They thought of the work I had to do, 
and then said maybe I would not be assessed, but of course did not say 
I should not be. 

Q. What was your salary ? — A. Nine hundred and fifty dollars, at 
that time. 

Q. What did 'Sir. Cooper's circular contain ? — A. I am not certain as 



188 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

to tliat. It was calliDg for coutributions, and that it should be about 1 
per cent., to the best of my recollection. 

Q. Who was that sent to? — A. It was supposed to be sent to the ofli- 
cers. 

Q. To all the officers? — A. I do not know if it was sent to all. I 
received one. 

Q. Did you receive it from the office of the collector, or direct from 
Mr. Cooper? — A. I do not know; I would not say on my oath; I may 
have picked it np in the office. I recollect seeing the circular. Whether 
there was one addressed to me by his hand I am not certain, or whether 
there was one handed me in the office by some one, or I fonud it on the 
table or desk. There may have been one reo-ularly addressed to me. 

Q. You said yon did not pay anything- that year; did yon pay any- 
thiug in any other year? — A. I paid at different times, some months, a 
voluntary contribution. 

Q. They were all voluntary? — A. I think I paid the first assessment. 
I received a circular from the national executive committee ; I responded 
to that with some small amount at the time. 

Q. Whatever sum it was you paid it? — A. I do not know what; it was 
whatever was convenient, probably some 810 or $15; I don't think ex- 
ceeding that, and amounts at different times since. What I mean by 
^'voluntary," I may have given to some speaker who came aloug, to 
some extent, paying his hotel bill, &c. 

Q. Do you know the duties E. B.Drake performed when he was gen- 
eral storekeeper while you were there? — A, His duty was to withdraw 
spirits in all the warehouses of his division that Avere under suspension 
and had no regularly assigned storekeeper. 

Q. Did he do that, or some other of the deputies or storekeepers do 
it for him? — A. I do not know; he had not been up part of the time 
himself. I have known of his goiug frequently. 

Q. Do you know of anybody ever performing this duty for him ? — A. 
I think on some occasions probably a man by the name of Moss per- 
formed some for him near Mocksville, his home. 

Q. Do you know that Mr. J. IST. Summers performed that duty for 
him ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know if Mr. Coite did ? — A. I don't know. Whenever 
stamps were received from any of the parties purchasing, the general 
storekeeper was notified. 

Q. Was it not a general rule for the general storekeeper to send some 
of the storekeepers out in his place to stamp the liquor ? — A. I do not 
think it was general. He might have done so in some instances if he 
could not go. The reason I mentioned it in regard to Moss — he is now 
•dead — he was taken sick, and started out in a buggy at the time ; that 
fixed it on my memory when it was. Some one told me that he had 
started out to do some work for Mr. Drake, when he was taken sick. 

Q. Where do you live ? — A. In Winston now. 

Q. Are you a native of the State? — A. 1 was born in Davidson 
County. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Was there an investigation into this contribution of office expen- 
ses by the Commissioner of Internal Ee venue, through an agent ? — A- 
There was. 

Q. I have before me a letter from Green B. Eaum, Commissioner, to 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 189 

tlie Hon. Cluules J. Folger; The same is dated WasUiuj^toii, Jaiiuary 
30, 1882, in wLicb this language occurs: 

Matters concerniug certain coiitriburions uiado Ijy ot'tict'is of the district for the 
l)iirpose of facilitating the transaction of imsiuess liave Vicen investigated and passed 
upon. Tlie amounts coutril>iit('d for this jjiirpose wcrt- about fonr iiundred dollars, 
and have been fully acconntrd for. As the result of the investigation into this matter, 
an additional allowance was made for ottiee expenses, and the collector was informed, 
that the iiractice of receiving contributions for such a purpo.se was regarded with dis- 
favor in luy ottiee, and it has accordingly been discontinued. 

Q. Is that a correct statement ? — A. T tliink it is. 

Q. As to that amount ' — A. I am not certain as to the amount ; some- 
where in that neighborhood ; 1 coukl not say ; all the papers were 
turned over and examined together, with Colonel Brooks and myself. 

Q. Do 3'ou think that more than about $400 was (collected for this 
l»urpose t — A. It is over this a small amount; I am not certain; some- 
where between four and live hundred dollars. 

Q. Can you state how many illicit distilleries and tobacco factories 
were broken up by Dr. ]Mott during the time; do you know how many ? — 
A. A great many illicit distilleries; I cannot say how many; I never kept 
that account in the office; I never examined the record. 

Q. I luTve now with me from the same letter this : 

During the whole period 

The Chairman. AVhat period I 

Mr. Pool. The entire period from the time he went into the office 
until February, 1882. 

one thon.saud one hundred and seven distilleries and six tobacco factories were seized. 
At ])resent the tobacc(J-blockading business has practically ceased. 

In ])roportion as illicit distilling has been suppressed, regular govern uieut distilleries 
have been established, until now the number of registered distilleries has increased 
from 48 to 359. This satisfactory result has been brought about in the face of every 
obstacle that could be thrown in the way by the illicit distiller and the tobacco block- 
ader, and the people sympathizing with them in their etforts to defraud the govern- 
mejit. 

Public sentiment, however, has changed remarkaljlj' within the last three years, 
and to-day the olticers of the government have the almost unanimous support of the 
district in enforcing the laws. 

The system of insjiections and examinations has brought the office up to the highest 
standard, and the improvement in the condition of the distri(;t is equally gratifying. 

Q. Is that a correct statement ? — A. I think it is. 
Q. From your observation aud exj^erience,. you think the Commis- 
sioner has stated it correctly ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know Dr. Mott's handwriting ? — A. I think I do. 

Q. Look at that, aud see if that is his handwriting (exhibit handed 
to the witness) ? — A. I do not think it is ; it resembles it very much. 

Q. Turn over and see if that is (Exhibit 14 handed to the witness) ? — 
A. I do not tliiidc that is; a great many could copy his handwriting. 

Q. You could not say whether that was his handwriting or not (Ex- 
hibit 10 handed to the witness) ? — A. That appears to be more like it ; 
I could not say on my oath whether it was or not. That looks a little 
more like it than the other. I have noticed his signature has a nervous- 
ness about the form of the letters. 

Q. Look now at that one (Exhibit 11 Imnded to the witness) ? — A. 
That don't look to me like it ; that appears to be a little nearer, but 
this "J" (indicating); he never makes "J" in that way. 

Q. This is more like his hand ? — A. This comes a little nearer to it. 



190 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEYENUE IN 

Q. You could not be ceTtaiu of either ? — A. Not certain that either of 
tliem was. 

Q. What do yoii say to that oue (Exhibit 16 handed to wituesg) ? — 
A. I cannot tliink that is his. 

Q. What do you say to that one (Exhibit 17 handed to witness) ? — A. 
I cannot think this is his ; it is a good imitation. 

Q. I will ask you if any of these are his 1 — A. On iny oath I could 
not say that either of them was his. 

John A. Eamsay recalled and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. I will ask you as to the signature of Dr. Mott. You know 
Dr. Mott's signature, do you not ; you were his deputy a long while 
(handing paper to witness) ! — Answer. It is some time since I was fami- 
liar with it, and I do not see a very great difference in any of them. 

Q. Could you swear whether that was his hand or not ? — A. I would 
not like to say positively whether that was or not. 

Q. Could you swear that one man wrote both f — A. Well, I would be 
inclined to think that the same man wrote both, because frequently 
there are more changes than in an ordinary signature. I notice a little 
heaviness in the pen in one not exhibited in the other. The two are 
Exhibits 16 and 17. 

Suppose you try these, Exhibits 13 and 14 (handing to witness); look 
at both of those, and see whether they are in the doctor's handwriting, 
and if so, which one, or whether one man wrote both ? — A. (Exami- 
ning.) The same party who wrote the others wrote this, I think. 

Q. Have you the same criticism as to them that you have made on 
the others? — A. Yes, sir; my recollection of his signature is, that he 
wrote a little nervously, and did not form his letters very regularly. 

Q. Try the other two Exhibits, 10 and 11 ; what do you say to those 
two (handing to the witness) ? — A. Just about as to the others ; would 
not like to say positively. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Do you profess to be an expert in handwriting at all 1 — A. I used 
to be, but I have not given any special attention to that for some time. 
Adjourned until Wednesday, July 5, at 10 a. m. 



Washington, Thursday, July 7, 1882. 
The committee met at 1 o'clock p. m. 
The following witnesses were examined in behalf of Dr. Mott. 

Hon. Thomas Settle sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Jacksonville, Florida. 

Q. Where were you residing in 1876 and 1878 ? — A. Greensboro, N. C. 

Q. You are the United States district judge for the northern district 
of Florida "I — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with the people of the 6th collection dis- 
trict of North Carolina ? — A. Yes, sir ; I have a very general acquaint- 
ance through that section of the State. 

Q. Are you acquainted with Dr. Mott*? — A. Yes, sir; I am well ac- 
quainted with Dr. Mott — for the last twenty years. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA.. 191 

Q. Do you know his standing afld character as a man ? — A. I do. 

Q. riease state what it is. — A. He is a gentleman of high character, 
and, as such, well known throughout Xorth Carolina ; his character is 
as good as any man's there. 

Q. You have heard a good deal in relation to the collection of inter- 
nal revenue in that district of which Dr. Mott is collector — rei>orts of 
malfeasance in oftice, and things derogatory to the general administra- 
tion of the district, have you not ? — A. I have seen the common news- 
paper comments of the day. 

Q. Have those reports affected his character at all down there ? — A. 
I think not, sir. 

Q. Will you state along about 1876, and previous to that time, and a 
year or two after, when you knew the district, and resided in Greens- 
boro, whether there were any obstructions to the collection of the rev- 
enue in that district ? — A. In what ])articular do you mean ? There 
were, in that and other districts, when raids were made on distilleries — 
there were a great manj^ outbreaks and outrages — the officers were re- 
sisted frequently, and a good many disturbances of that kind. 

Q. This is a very extensive district, is it not ? — A. Yes, sir ; a very 
large mountainous district. 

Q. State the general condition of public sentiment in regard to the 
collection of revenue, and to revenue ofrtcials — say along about 1870, 
or a year or two preceding, and the feeling, if you know it, .in any way. 
— A. The whole revenue system is unpopular throughout, not only that 
State, but the South. The whole system is quite unpopular, you might 
say odious, and of course it has been denounced in very severe terms, 
and the revenue oflicers are not in good odor, as a general thing. 

Q. 1 wish you to state, in general, from your observation in that dis- 
trict, whether there was, especially in the 0th district of ISorth Caro- 
lina, and in that section of the State, efforts made to bring opprobrium 
and reproach upon revenue oflicers, the law, and upon its execution — 
whether special obstructions were not thrown in the way for political 
or any other purpose. — A. I don't know as it was confined to the Gth 
district, at all. For years, I suppose, in the 0th, as well now as for- 
merly — of course, as I said, it was a very unpopular law, and ])oliticiaus 
generally availed themselves of that, and one side attemi)ted to make 
the other carrj' the odium and the reproach of the law and its execu- 
tion. This constituted a good part of our Democratic friends' stock in 
trade — the denunciation of the revenue laws and the system — and the 
officers were called " nosers," and " smellers," and so forth. I think 
that was the general current of political opinion. They held the Re- 
publicans responsible for the revenue laws and their execution. 

Q. Were they denounced in such a way as to discourage oflicers in 
the execution of their duties ? — A. They were denounced in pretty round 
terms; called "nosers," "smellers," "thieves," and "red-legged grass- 
hoppers," eating up the vitals of the country. That was the fact, not only 
in one place, but I think the general current of newspaper articles and 
public speeches. It was in fact an unpopular law, and one side made 
the other carry the odium of it. 

Q. Was that carried beyond what is usual in political warfare — this 
denunciation of the revenue law and the oflicers t — A. I don't know what 
you would say is "usual," but it constituted a very large portion of the 
newspaper articles of the day, and public speeches. 

Q. I mean was it more usual there than in other sections of the country ? 
— A. There is no question but that the revenue system was denounced 



192 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

out and out, and the ofiScers brought into ridicule, as much as the speeches 
and articles could do so. 

Q. Was the general course pursued by the politicians calculated to 
raise a popular sentiraent against the execution of the law? — A. My 
opinion is that it was; that the course pursued had an effect to bring 
the law and the officers executing it into contempt before the people, 
exciting opposition to the whole system. It is unquestionably an un- 
popular system all through the South. 

Q. I understand you to say, then, tbat the denunciation of the law 
and the officers was used for the i)urpose of political ends, and to incite 
the masses of the people against the Eepublican party? — A. It certainly 
had that tendency. I felt the weight of it, I know, myself. 

Q. Were you a candidate for governor yourself in North Carolina f — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you canvassing the district? — A. I canvassed the district, 
and made around the State fifty-six joint debates with my friend who 
sits on my left; and several other speeches were made on our appoint- 
ments. 

Q. Will you state some of the language which was used, not only in 
your own hearing, but of what you heard stump speakers generally say 
— what were the points they made? — A. My competitor kept me too 
busy to look after others. 1 had to watch him very closely, so that I 
did not hear much about others. I did not hear any public speaking; 
all I could do was to watch him and the character of his speeches. Still 
everything was exceedingly pleasant between ourselves, and in that re- 
spect it did good to the State, showing that a joint canvass could be 
conducted pleasantly, though we did not spare each other in a legitimate 
use of the weapons at our hand, yet we did not strike foul blows. My 
friend had a pleasant and humorous way of putting his denunciations,, 
so that he kept the crowd in good humor. Still his denunciations were 
very pointed, and when we got into the whisky country, my friend gen- 
erally had the " hurrah" on me by the whisky men. He had a pleasant 
way of putting his points, which were not as offensive as a good many 
articles I h{\d seen in the papers; he kept us all in good humor. 

Q. But still the course of political discussion was a denunciation of 
the law? — A. Oh, yes; certainly. 

Q. And to ridicule it and the officers themselves ? — A. Yes, sir. My 
friend here used to call them "nosers," and sometimes "red-legged grass- 
hoppers," &c.; he iised to have an ai)t way of saying that these fellows. 
had become so expert that while their horses were taking a drink at the 
branch they could tell whether there was a distillery within a mile or 
not; and that they could look at a fellow's tracks in the road and tell 
whether he was carrying a quart or a two-gallon jug; or, if they got a. 
whiff of a fellow's breath, they could tell whether the dram he drank 
before breakfast had been tax-paid or not. 

Q. Was not the usual course of political discussion to bring discredit 
on the officers, and to bring them into contempt? — A. Certainly; no 
doubt about that, though some of them were much more violent with 
articles and abuse than any I heard myself. But the general character 
of the speeches in the campaign and the drift of the newspapers were 
inclined to bring the whole system into contempt and disrepute, and 
the officers into odium. 

Q. Was that not a serious obstruction to Dr. Mott in the administra- 
tion of his office? — A. I cannot say particularly about Dr. Mott and his 
district, but in that section of the State and in the Greensboro district, 
the officers were frequently resisted, and a good many of them shot. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 193 

Q. The purpose of the discussiou aud of the newspaper articles was 
to bring the revenue officers, not only into contempt, but to insult 
them? — A. Well, I would not undertake to say what the purpose was, 
but the tendency' was that way. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. The purpose was to make votes? — A. I think that was one of the 
leading objects. It was a very unenviable and uncomfortable position 
for the revenue men' to be in. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. It excited the public against them ? — A. Certainly. 

Q. Was it safe for a revenue officer to go unattended aud unarmed 
through that country at that time"? — A. A great many were shot. 

Q. Did you think these political discussions tended to incite the peo- 
ple to attack the officers ? — A. Well, the character of the discussions was 
calculated to bring the whole thing — to make it unpopular, and the of- 
ticers executing the law, unpopular. 

Q. The tendency was to encourage men to violate the law, and to at- 
tack and obstruct officers in its administration"? — A. I cannot say any- 
thing further than what I have said; they received all manner of de- 
nunciation. They were denounced even by the words "thief and 
" thieves." 

Q. Did Dr. Mott meet this state of things with discretion and mod- 
eration? — A. I think so. I have always regarded Dr. Mott as a cool, 
deliberate man, of sound judgment; that was the light in which I un- 
derstood him to stand. 

Q. Did the officers generally behave with discretion aud moderation, 
so far as you know? 1 am not only speaking of what you know, but, 
according to the course of this investigation, you can state what you 
have heard; that is, if you have any reliance upon it. I do not mean 
any idle rumor. — A. I suppose any officer attempting to execute that 
law in the section of the country where I did live, and farther west — 
Dr. Mott's district — they were likely to meet with opposition, aud to in- 
cur danger in the execution of their legitimate duties. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott succeed in improving that state of things ! — A. I 
think so, and that his management of the district has brought about a 
change for the better. 1 think to-day that the system is not so unpop- 
ular, nor attended with so many difficulties as formerl;y" in the execution 
of the laws. 

Q. In mixing among the people you have heard a good deal said 
about this collection of the revenue. I will ask you whether there was 
an excited state of public feeling against the execution of the law? — A. 
Oh, yes; decidedly so; not only through that campaign, but before and 
since. A great many men regarded it as a legitimate and fair thing to 
cheat the government in that way as much as they could. 

Q. Did you ever hear men say so? — A. Yes. It is a common expres- 
sion down there that the government freed the negroes and made them 
poor, and anything that they might get out of the government was 
legitimate aud fair. I have heard that sentiment expressed, not on the 
stump. I never heard of any politicians giving vent to that, but I have 
heard the sentiment expressed by the liquor men. 

Q. Have you any doubt that the political speeches of which you have 
spoken, have had a tendencj' to bring the public mind into that condi- 
tion ?— A. Of course it was calculated to do so. 
S. Mis. IIG 13 



194 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Have you any doubt that, in point of fact, it did not largely coa- 
tribnte in that direction? — A. 1 have no doubt that men by that felt 
encouraged to go further than probably they would have done in resist- 
ing the law. 1 do not say that any of the speeches that I have heard 
were intended to do such a thing, but I say that the tendency of the 
general drift of politics was such as to bring the whole system into 
odium. 

Q. You did hear a good many slanderous reports about it, derogatory 
to the collection of the revenue and its officers! — A. Certainly. 

Q. Were not those reports put out by politicians for a political pur- 
pose? — A. Why, of course. The Democratic party denounced the whole 
system and the officers, and the Republicans had to carry it, with all its 
odium. 

Q. Were individual officers denounced? — A. I do not know that I 
ever heard any individual singled out. 

Q. The public took up and re-echoed what was said on the stump? — 
A. 1 suppose the whole matter was unpopular, and especially with those 
who were in the trade, and a large number were so, directly or indirectly. 

Q. The point which I want to make clear, and I do not know biit I 
have already done so, is, was this revenue law, its collection, execution, 
and its officers, made a pointed subject of party discussion! — A. Cer- 
tainly it was. 

Q. For the purpose of breaking down one party and building up an- 
other! — A. Certainly; I used, in the debates I had with my competitor, 
to allege that there was not a revenue officer seen until after the war; 
which war was brought about, as I charged, by the Democratic party, 
and hence the whole necessity of revenue officers, till, as I said, the 
Eepublican party paid the debt which the Democratic party had put 
upon us, and then w^e would see no more of these "red-legged grass- 
hoppers." 

Q. Did you think these slanderous things that were circulated were 
not believed by the masses of the people, the thinking, good, substan- 
tial men! — A. I have no doubt that Dr. Mott's character has not been 
affected in the least degree. I understand that he always has been, and 
is now, a gentleman of the highest character. I have no idea that his 
character has been affected at all; perhaps the character of some men 
might have been. 

Dr. MoTT. I will ask you if the slanders circulated over that coun- 
ti^y were not for political purposes, and if they have not grown up in 
that way until they had become stereotyped talk, and understood all 
over the country as slanders ; this talk about revenue stealing, &c., has 
it not been given out by Democratic speakeris and politicians ! 

The Witness. I thought, doctor, that I had alreadj^ answered sub- 
stantially that question in my statement, that unquestionably the aim 
was to bring the whole system and the officers into odium, and it was 
doubtless successful to a certain extent. The system certainly is a very 
unpopular one. I believe that in the campaign it was a hard load to 
carry, and we had to defend it as a necessity at that time. I suppose 
the system to-day is unpopular, and that unpopularity has been brought 
about by those attacks upon it. I think it is legitimate and fair for any 
party to attack a system, but I do not think it legitimate and fair to 
attack it so as to bring the officers into odium and danger, as was done 
in this tight long before that canvass and since. This is part of the 
genera] politics of the South, and not only of the South, but of the 
North also, the discussion of the system of raising taxes. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 195 

Cross-examination. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. In this assanlt and (le]ninciation of the revcnne system and de- 
partment which you si)oke of, did not tlie Democratic speakers and 
members have an excuse in doin^' so tliat the revenue department were 
their active pohtical enemies; tliat is, they were incited to do so from 
the fact that tlie officers of the department were very active politicians; 
they did not assail men simply because the revenue system was un])oi> 
iilar, as it was, but it was also because they Avere political opponents f — 
A. I do not know that I ever heard any man singled out; the assault 
was upon the system, and growing out of the fact that the revenue men 
were generally Kepnblicans and very active in their support of the 
party, and of course the Democratic speakers and pajjcrs felt it necessary 
to break them down in any way they could, and they resorted to the 
arguments to which 1 have alluded for that purpose. 

Q. 1 will ask you if it is not a fact that the organization of the Ee- 
])ublican party was principall}" maintained by the revenue officers ; that 
they attended public meetings, went as delegates to conventions, and 
contributed to bear the expenses of the party machinerj', and all 
that? — A. I do not think it was chiefly supported by them; I think 
that the revenue officers, considering their nnmbers, were very active 
supporters of the party and contributed liberally of their means ; but 
I do not think the Eepublican organization was chiefly sui)i)orted by 
them. 

Q. Was not Dr. Mott for a considerable while the chairman of the 
State executive committee of the Republican party*? — A. Yes, sir; he 
was. 

Q. Of course if he and his officers took an active part in the campaign 
it was fair for their opponents to fight them ? — A. Legitimately. 

Q. If they fought them legitimately, of course f — A. Certainly. 

Q. Did not a great many of the reports that were published in the 
newspapers and commented upon by speakers from the stump originate 
from complaints of. the revenue officers by Republicans as well as Dem- 
ocrats ? — A. I do not know about that. The papers and speeches were 
full of complaints, and T think generally the complaints were from 
Democratic newspapers, and probably from Republicans who were en- 
gaged in the liquor business; they were not confined to Democrats, and 
I guess some of the Republicans who were engaged in the liquor business 
complained also. 

Q. Of rough treatment on the part of the offic^ers ? — A. Yes, sir ; I 
suppose if they caught a Republican at a still, he would complain as 
loud as a Democrat. 

Q. A little louder, would he not, as he would think he should have 
some favor at the hands of his partv friends? — A. I do not know al)Out 
that. 

Q. What do you know about the system of political assessment ou 
the revenue men down there"? — A. Nothing whatever; I have heard that 
the rexenue officers contributed, but 1 never was connected with any of 
the connnittees, and had no knowledge of its details. I know nothing 
but what is generally stated, but 1 suppose they have been liberal con- 
tributors. 

G. B. EvEKiTT sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool: 
Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. In Winston, Forsyth 
County, North Carolina. 



196 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Are you a collector of internal revenue";? — A. Yes, sir; of the fifth 
]S'orth Carolina district. 

Q. And adjoining- the sixth district? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you acquainted with the sixth district"? — A. Yes, sir; I have 
addressed meetings in the counties of Yadkin and Kowan, and have 
been through there several times. 

Q. As a political canvasser? — A. I went through the district almost 
entirely in 1880, when I was an elector for the State at large on the Gar- 
field and Arthur ticket. 

Q. Will you state generally the course of politicians and stump 
speakers in regard to the revenue and the officers ? — A. Well, sir, as 
has been stated, the burden of the Democratic speeches that I heard 
in 1876, and all the Democrats that I heard on the stumf> in 1880, was 
the revenue law — its oppression and degradation of the people of North 
Carolina ; the work and bad character of the internal-revenue oflicers — 
and at last they promised to the people that if the Democratic party 
w as put in possession of the government, that it should be repealed. 
I will state here, however, that in 1880 that promise to repeal the act 
was not made as often as in 1876, from the fact that it was known to 
the people that the Democrats had an opportunity to do that in 1878 
and 1879 and did not do it. But all the odium of the law and its un- 
popularity was dwelt upon ; such as the seizure of a poor man's distil- 
lery there, and their wagons, and the turning out of their whisky; the 
going to people's houses at midnight and disturbing the women and 
children. All these things were dwelt upon in very vivid pictures. 

Q. The officers were denounced ? — A. The English language was 
about exhausted in that way. 

Q. What was the character of the denunciations? — A. As Judge Settle 
just remarked, they were called " red-legged grasshoppers," " whisky- 
smellers," "spies," "revenue hirelings," &c. 

Q. Were they accused of stealing? — A. Certainly they were, sir. 
The "moiety system" in 1868 gave rise to many of these charges. By 
that system the revenue officials were allowed a part of the seized prop- 
erty. That was a very odious law, and manj^ revenue officers took ad- 
vantage of it and did wrong. 

Q. VVhen men v ere brought up in court for violation of the law, what 
course was pursued towards the witnesses and prosecutors? — A. When 
men were brought before the courts as witnesses, the usual line of de- 
fense was to attack the character of the government witnesses as much 
as possible, and to dwell very severely before the jury upon their being 
revenue officers, and it did not make any difference whether the jury 
were Republicans or Democrats, white or black, these appeals had very 
great influence in deciding a case; and right here I will state that the 
question of transferring cases from the State courts to the United States 
courts where a government official had made an assault and battery 
upon a citizen or had violated the State law in any way, as it was al- 
leged, created a very bitter feeling all through North Carolina. It was 
finally decided by Judge Cox, and sustained by the supreme court of 
North Carolina, that the transfer was legal. Until that was done the 
feeling in the State was very severe, especially in Western North Caro- 
lina. They were alleging that the internal-revenue officials and United 
States marshals were outraging their fellow-citizens and they could not 
get justice. 

Q. Were slanders of a serious character circulated against the rev- 
enue officers? — A. I cannot answer about tliat except as I have done; 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 197 

political (lonunciation of the " Avliisky-smellers," " grasshoppers," &c., 
if that was slander, tlieu they were slandered. 

Q. Were si)e('ific charges made against them? — A. 1 do not think that 
any special internal-revenue officer was singled out. The whole sys- 
tem and corjjs of officers were denounced. 

Q. Was anything said about their dividing their pay? — A. 'Sot ojdy 
about dividing their ])ay, but alleging that the rcA^enue officers would 
hire the neighbors of blockade distillers to inform on them and then di- 
vide their pay in that Avay, by seizing the property and selling it. 

Q. And the result of it all has l)een that thes<; slanders were put 
abroad on the community? — A. Certainly; from 1868 to 387G it did a 
great deal of harm in that State, but now the charges are fully under- 
stood, as I said just now. The internal-revenue law not ha^ ing been 
repealed up to date, it is easier to execute the law thau it was twelve 
months ago. 

Q. I am confining my observations to the sixth district. — A. Yes, sir. 

i). Was this calculated to embarrass the officers in the discharge of 
their duty ? — A. It was very much calculated to do it. 1 should think 
that the collector of the internal revenue of the sixth district from 1868 
to 1876 would have found it difficult to have gotten — he might have 
done it — what I mean to say is that men of high and intlueutial char- 
acter would have been deterred from going into the revenue service on 
account of the trouble they feared they would have to stand. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott finally succeed in getting a good class of officers ? — 
A. 1 can only speak now in a general way. I understand that for the 
last twelve mouths or two years the district is in a first-class condition, 
and gradually improving. The officers, so far as I have heard, I think 
are as good as revenue^officers generally are. 

Q. Do you know the standing of Dr. Mott in that district and else- 
where where he is known f — A. I do. 

Q. State what itis. — A. He is known, I would say, as an honest, bohl, 
and independent man. His character is as good as that of any gentle- 
man or citizen in Western iSTorth Carolina. 

Q. Have these rei)orts and slanders upon his district affected his char- 
acter at all '? — A. jS^ot a particle ; I think in the last ninety days it has 
heli)ed him. That is what I honestly believe. 

Q. Did you ever hear any charge brought of malfeasance in office on 
the part of the doctor himself? — A. I never have. 

Q. Nobody has been bold enough to make the charge against him ? — 
A. If there has I do not know it. If I have ever heard it, it has escaped 
my attention. I may have hear<l of the general charges against the 
officers of the district from a political standpoint. « I have heard that; 
but I understood it as a matter of course. 

Q. Is it generally understood among the people in that district, that 
those slanders and reports were put forward for political purposes, and 
are they believed or disbelieved '? — A. These charges were used during 
a jiolitical canvass more than at any other time: As a matter of course, 
they are flying around there through the country nearly all the time. 
But the law was unpopular at that time, and the revenue officers are 
odious all the time, and it was like fire slumbering; it blazed out again 
about election time. From 1868 to 1876and during the year 1876 it had 
a great deal of influence, but in 1880, as far as I saw, I do not think it 
had any influence. It might have had some, but not near so much as 
formerly, and will have less from now on. 



198 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Cross-esainiuatiou. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You referred to the deDunciatious, &c., heaped upon the reveuue 
officers in 1S7G ; yon took a part in that denunciation, did you not! — 
A. I did uot make a speech during that canvass. 

Q. Did you not vote for me for governor"? — A. I did; and for Mr. 
Hayes for President. 

Q. Notwithstanding my calling the revenue officers "red-legged 
grasshoppers," &c. f — A. I voted for you principally on personal con- 
siderations, but I did not hear you make any speeches. If I had heard 
you do so, I am doubtful if 1 should have voted for you. 

Q. You heard that I had made them I — A. Yes, I saw your speeches. 

Q. You say you made no speeches yourself? — A. No, sir; uot a 
single one. 

Q. And therefore you did not join in the denunciations of the revenue 
department? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You say United States witnesses are abused in the courts 1 — A. 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear any oijher witnesses except revenue officers 
abused in the courts? — A. Oh, yes, sir. 

Q. Y^ou have taken a little hand at that yourself, have you not ? — A. 
I have done it myself. 

Q. And you say it did uot make any difference whether the jury was 
black or white, Eepublican or Democratic, those appeals and that abuse 
always had an effect °? — A. It did have great influence, is my candid 
opinion. Of course the whisky traffic in Western North Carolina per- 
meated all societies. 

Q. Now, Mr. Pool had you to say, speaking of these reports against 
revenue officers, that they were slanders? Among others, was the 
rumor of storekeepers dividing their pay with distillers ; do you regard 
that a slander? — A. Do I regard that as a slander ? 

Mr. Pool. You are confining him to the sixth district. 

The Chairman. I suppose so. — A. (The witness.) I should regard it 
as a slander upon one of my storekeepers and gangers if I heard of his 
dividing his pay with a distiller. 

Q. Would you regard it as a slander on Dr. Mott's storekeepers ? — 
A. If it were not true. 

Q. Do you regard all such reports as slanders about the sixth district? — 
A. If the report is true it is not a slander. If not true, I should judge 
it is slanderous in its nature. 

Q. Not whether it is true or not ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear of a revenue agent by the name of McLeer ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; I have heard of him in the last ninety days. 

Q. Do you know that he has a report here, made to this department, 
that he believes that there was a systematic division between the store- 
keepers and distillers of the sixth district? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you never seen that report? — A. No, sir; I never saw nor 
heard of it. 

Q. You never heard any such report on Dr. Mott's district ? — A. Only 
during the political canvass around the country. 

Q. Did you ever hear a report of one A. M. Crane's, upon which Dr. 
Mott was ousted from office? — A. I never heard of that, except the 
other day in the Kestler and Eamsay investigation. This took place 
in 1872, and Dr. Mott, who was removed by President Grant, and, after 
it was understood, he was reinstated by President Grant. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 199 

Q. Then you have heanl of bad reports on Dr. Mott? — xV. 1 qualitied 
my answer just uow. Those that came from a political (piai'ter and 
wiuit 1 bad heard the other day; never before this investiii'ation. 

Q. The Kepublican party down there in that section of the country 
where you and I live is principally organized and run by the revenue 
department, is it not? —A. I cannot answer your (luestion this way. 

Q, Answer it in any way you please. — A. A great part of the ma- 
chinery, 1 may say, is looked after, and has been looked after, by the 
internal-revenue officials. In Dr. Mott's district there are thirty-five 
counties. I suppose the internal revenue officials, in each county, as a 
general thing, being good Republicans, as a matter of course they give 
politics some attention. 

Q. They get up i)ublic meetings and have delegates a])[)ointed, &c.? — 
A. No, sir; I do not think they do that, unless it may be to help some 
personal friend who wants to be nominated for the legislature or go to 
the State Republican convention as a delegate. 

Q. Do they not furnish all the money for party purposes in that 
State? — A. I cannot answer that question. 1 have not furnished any 
myself, nor any of my otticers. 

Q. In times ]>ast? — A. In times past I supi)Ose they furnished quite 
a smart amount of money. 

Q. Do you think it unfair, if the revenue officers engage actively in 
l)olitics, for the Democrats to assail them and make all out of them they 
could ? — A. I do not think it unfair to make all that is honest and legiti- 
mate out of the men whom we know to be corrupt and unfaithful offi- 
cials; but I do think it unfair to hold uj) a system and a whole party, 
and officers irrespective of persons, to odium and public; contem[)t and 
seorn. 

Q. If you disapproved of the law, how would you act to get it repealed 
excei)t by oi)erating on the public in that way f — A. The law, of course, 
is a question of principle; but I am speaking now more directly of hold- 
ing up the charactei' of revenne officers, without any exception, to pub- 
lic scorn and contempt. 

Q. If a revenue office is a public office, it belongs to the people, and if 
a collector or an officer uses that for the success of one party and 
against the other, is not that a perversion of his office ! — A. It is not a 
perversion of his office to give as much money out of his salary as he 
pleases to maintain his ]iarty and principles. 

Q. Not to use his position in traveling all over the country election- 
eering for his party ? — A. If he did not neglect his official duties to do 
that. 

Q. If he did notf — A. Then I hold he has as much right to work for 
his party, for his principles, as any one, provided he first attends to his 
official duties. 

Q. That is your opinion, that a public officer is justified in doing all 
this for his party and his ])rinciples, and making use of his office for that 
purpose? — A. He must fiist attend to his official duties. 

Q. There is a certain power and influence attending the possession 
of office? — A. There is an influence that goes out from him. 

Q. If an officer exercises that power, directly or indirectly, to compel 
his subordinates to pay money in for political purposes, is not tliar a 
perversion of his office ?— A. I think that would be, if he would com- 
pel a man to do it ; yes, sir. 

Q. Suppose he merely requests the man to do it who is in his jxtwer ; 
do you look upon that as a contribution voluntarily made in obedience 
to that request ? — A. I think I should do it, sir. 



200 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. You look upon tluit as voluntary, if a man is entirely dependent 
ni>()n you, and he could be removed by you at any moment; if he should 
subscribe money at your request, would you look upon that as purely 
voluntary ? — A. The storekeeper and ganger cannot be removed by the 
collector. I have to give good official cause to get him out. 

Q. I state it again. If a subordinate officer, who was entirely in the 
power of his superior officer, and who could be removed by him at any 
moment, on any pretext satisfactory to that superior, Avould you regard 
a contribution made by that inferior, at the request of his superior, a 
voluntary gift '? — A. I sliould, sir. 

Q. Is Dr. Mott on your official bond ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How nuich did he justify for on that bond"? — A. I think he justi- 
tied for $55,000. 

Q. Who else is on your bond, if you can remember? — A. I think I 
can state them all. Dr. Mott, Colonel Cooper 

Q. Thomas N. '? — A. Yes, sir. J. A. McCauley, and others, I have 
a justified bond of $300,000, I was only required to give $200,000. 

Q. What do you know on this subject of political assessments? — A.. 
I do not know one thing. My experience is brief. 

Q. Do you not knoAV how much was raised by contributions upon the 
revenue officers of North Carolina in 1880 f — A. No, sir; I cannot tell 
you. I have no idea. 

Q. Do you raise them regularly in your department? — A. I have not 
raised one penny so far. 

Q. Have you been requested by the national executive committee to 
levy contributions? — A. No, sir; I have not. I have received a card 
from Mr. Hubbell that he would be pleased to receive a contribution, 
and I shall send it on in a few days. I do not know^ what my other 
men have received. 

Q, Did Mr. Hubbell ask you to communicate Avith all your officers? — . 
A. No, sir; he has not said one Avord to me on that subject, directly or 
iudirectlv. 

Q. Who is chairman, now, of the executive committee of the Repub- 
lican party in North Carolina? — A. ])r. Mott, I think, Avas elected in 
July, 1880. 

Q. Did you attend the Chicago convention in 1880? — A. No, sir; I 
did not go there. 

Q. Were you not a delegate? — A. No, sir; I was not a delegate to 
any convention in 1880. Y^es, sir; I was a delegate to the Eepublican 
State convention. 

Q, Were you not an officer then? — A, No, sir, 

Q. You Avere not collector then? — A. No, sir; I haA'e attended no 
convention at all since I haA^e been a collector. 

Q. You know nothing of the operation of affairs in the sixth district 
noAv, do you? — A, No, sir. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. You Avere asked regarding the reports of some revenue agents. — 
A. Mr. McLeer, Senator Vance asked me about. 

Q. These Avere agents sent out by the department? — A. By the de- 
partment at Washington. 

Q. Do not these agents report eA^erything they hear — all rumors, and 
eA^erything of that kind that they can scrape up? — A. That has been 
my experience of them. 

Q. Do they report things regardless of whether they are true or 
false? — A. 1 think they have reported a good many false things some- 



THE HIXTII DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 201 

times. In (>tli<'-r words T mean to say, tliat a revenue a;>ent sent out by 
the <l«^i)artin<Mit liere at Washington is extremely exact, ininctilions, and 
teclinical, mn(;h more so tlian I would be in a report on my olhc«ns;. 
they r(^])ort thinj^s that 1 would not report. 

Q. Do not they hunt up and scrape up everything that they can, from 
hearsay and otherwise '! — A. I have had a little experience in the mat- 
ter in the last thirty days in the counties of Person and Alamance, in 
that State. There have been six revenue aj^ents makinj-- a cinniitof 
my distilleries down there. One af,^ent would go to a distillery, exam- 
ine it, and find a stopcock out of place, or a pii)e not painted, and thenext 
week another one would come to the same distillery, and would lind some 
other irregularity, some technicality. The next would c(nnein like man- 
ner, andjust before 1 came to Washington, in the last thirty or forty 
days, six of them had been around there. That is the way they rake? 
and s(ua])e everything up. 

Q. Does it not seem to be their object to make their r(!ports as large 
as ])ossil)le, so as to make ca])ital for themselves ? — A. As a matter of 
course, if they did not do much work they would not get the $120,000 
that is appropriated to keep them going, and they therefore do all the 
work they possibly can do in order to keep in favor with the authorities 
at Washington. 

Q. Do they not scrape up every floating rumor, and every slanderous 
charge '! — A*. They investigate e\'erything, in the hope of discovering 
some violatio)! of law. 

Q. And they ])ut it in their rejiorts, that come up here? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say J)r. IVIott Avas retnoved by General (irant upon the re- 
ports of these ofticers ? — A. That is what I hear since I came here. 

Q. IJut upon an investigation of the correctness of these re])orts he 
was restored f — A. That is what I understand relative to this Kestler 
and Itamsay matter. 

Q. If you go into the office of the Commissioner of Internal llevenue, 
and examine tlu' rejtorts of these agents, how much reliance w(mld you 
put upon them f — A. Unless 1 knew an agent personally, and have some 
official experience and intercourse with him, I should not put any, or 
very little. 

Q. Tl lis is because of your knowledge of their reporting th i iigs whether 
they are true or false?— A. Just as I say. The knowledge of their raking 
and scraping up every technical violation of the law, and hunting up 
every thing. 

J>r. MoTT. They give hearsay, and anything they get about the coun- 
try from anybody, and put it down and send it on heie. 

The Witness. They have their private informers in my district. They 
have them about these distilleries to see if there is any violation of the 
law. I am very free to confess that th(!y do more than anybody else to 
make the revenue law uni)opular in the South. 

r>y Mr. Pool : 

Q. The chairman asked you if requests were made by the collector 
upon such subordinate officers, that were entirely in his power, to make 
contributions, and the contributions having been made, whether you 
consider it voluntary. I will ask you what subordinate officers are en- 
tirely in his power. Are the storekeepers and gaugers in his powerf 
— a! Xo, sir ; they cannot be punished by the collector, or removed by 
him. 

Q. Do you know of any officers that are in his power? — A. I do not 
think there is one entirely in his power. The regulations say the col- 



202 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

lector shall not remove one of his deputies without giving good reasons 
to the Internal Eevenue Commissioner for doing so. 

By Senator Mitchell : 
Q. The selection of deputies is in his power? — A. Yes, sir, when they 
first come in ; but he cannot remove them himself without writing to the 
Commissioner and giving his reasons therefor. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. You said contributions for political purposes by these officers were 
voluntary"? — A. I did, sir. I regard one of my deputy collectors just 
as much of a gentleman as I am, and entitled to do with his pay what he 
l)leases. I certainly would be transgressing my ideas of propriety as a 
gentleman if I should tell him what I wanted him to do or did not want 
him to do about it. 

Q. You say you have not received any request from auy party to make 
assessments on your deputies ? — A. No, sir ; not one. 

Q. The letter that you received from Mr. Hubbell was as to a personal 
contribution by yourself"? — A. A personal letter to me, simply stating 
that he would be glad to receive from me a contribution. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You say the collector cannot remove a storekeeper and ganger'? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. He can give him work as he pleases? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So he would stand with his commission in his pocket without anj^- 
thing to do ? — A. The collector can keep from assigning him to duty. 

Q. That puts him somewhat in the collector's power as to his pay, does 
it not ? — A. To a certain extent it does ; but it does not entirely, because 
sometimes the collector may be forced to assign him to duty because he 
•cannot get new ones appointed. 

Q. And he can remove his deputies on representing to the Commis- 
sioner sufficient cause for doing so? — A. Yes, sir; that is my interpre- 
tation of the regulations. 

Q. When you were describing these revenue agents, yon said you 
would not put a bit of dependence in what they said unless you knew 
them personally? — A. I said I w'ould not put much, on account of the 
technical character of their reports. 

Q. And that they raked and scraped around, inquiring into everything 

technical, &c., and would jump on a man if the pipes of his still 

— A. Were not painted, and the stop-cocks out of order, &c. 

Q. Is that not very much the line I followed in 1876, when I talked 
about the hardship the people had to endure from tliem ? — A. Yes, sir; 
but you did not confine your remarks to the revenue agents ; you at- 
tacked the system from the highest to the lowest. 

Q. I ask yon a general question, if there was not a general feeling in 
the country. I ask for the facts, if it was not so — a general feeling 
among ihe people of our country that the revenue officers were oppress- 
ive to the i)eople, and carried things with a high hand ; that they would 
jump on a fellow and break him all up for a slight and trivial cause? — 
A. There was a feeling of that character, but it was not what I would call 
an original feeling. It was what I would call a feeling introduced and 
cultivated by political speakers on the stumx). If the people had been 
advised to obey the law and do the best they could with the officers, 
though they might be thieves and scoundrels, they would not have got 
into the trouble and crime that they did. 

Q. Do you not think this criticism of their conduct, this continual watch- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 203 

ing, luid a tendency to keep them within bonnds, and make them behave, 
3)8 they saw they were watcbe<l very ch)sely ? — A. As I said, the great 
tronble was chiefly there dnring the political canvasses, and they were 
not Avatched and talked abont mnch when it was going on. 

Q. Was it not charged that they wonld go aronnd and make raids 
more often Jnst before election time? — A. That is what the Democratic 
speakers charged. Tiie rule, 1 think, was the very reverse. Jnst before 
an election raids were not nnule, in order not to stir nj) strife. 

Q. Was it not, charged that the marshals would fill their pockets with 
blank warrants, and when they came across a man whom they thought 
ought to be arrested they would take one of them out and put his name 
in it ? — A. Under the Douglass dynasty that was said in the campaign 
speeches. 

Q. J)id you know whether there was any foundation for that or not ? 
A. I do not think there was any foundation for that charge — about their 
going around, especially before an election, 

Q. Was it not charged that if a Kepublican fell into the hands of the 
revenue ofHcers he got off a heap easier than a Democrat? — .V. That 
might have been said ; I think it was said. 

Q. Was it not charged that a great many Democrats accused of vio- 
lating the law fell into the hands of the Kepublicans, compromised by 
changing their politics and j)aying the costs? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did yon know^ any instances where that was charged"? — A. Kot of 
my own personal knowledge. 1 do not know of any man who changed 
his politics in that way. 

Q. You have heard of cases where that was alleged to have been 
done ? — A. 1 think I heard the general allegation. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. In regard to assigning storekeepers and gaugers, was it not the 
custom to keep just as many storekeepers and gaugers as there were 
distilleries in the district f — A. I said while the collector had the assign- 
ment of the storekeeper and ganger in his hands, and could give him 
Avork or not, as he wanted, freipiently he was compelled to do it on ac- 
count of not having enough storekeepers and gaugers to <lo the work; 
that the collector had generally as many storeke(;pers and gaugers as 
he had distilleries in operation ; and sometimes a ('ollector might not 
want to give a storekee])er and ganger work, but had to do it, as he has 
no other man to give it to. That is my experience. 

Q. Were they in the collector's power to any serious extent ? — A. I 
take it U]) one way and down the other, and cannot say to any serious 
extent. The collector might embarrass him — keep him out of work 
twenty or thirty days ; but in the course of time, if the distilleries re- 
mained in operation, he would have to give him Avork. 

Q. If all the distilleries were running he wovdd be obliged to give 
them all work '? — A. Certainly he would have to do it. I have had to 
give work to men that I did not want to give work to. 

D. A. Kamsay sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do ycni reside ? — Answer. Salisbury, N. C. 

Q. AVhat is your occupation ? — A. Storekeeper and ganger. 

Q. In the testimony of Mr. Kestler, he stated that he knew^ one reve- 
nue oflHcer who said he was compelled to pay an assessment, and men- 
tioned your name as the one. Will you state whether you were ever 



204 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

compelled to pay an assessment for political purposes or not 1 — A. I 
never have been ; I never so stated to Mr. Kestler, nor to any one else. 
I never have received any notice except here recently from Mr. Hnbbell, 
and that was just before I came on to Washington City. I have given 
assessments and have paid them, but never have bsen forced to do such 
a thing in my life, and never so stated to Mr. Kestler. 

Q. Was every contribution you ever made for party purposes entirely 
voluntary? — A. It always has been. I consider it a matter of business 
and principle to do so. 

Q. Do you know Mr, Kestler ?— A. William H. ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I have known Mr. Kestler ever since 1871, '72, or '73, 
along there. 

Q. You reside in the same town where he does, do you "? — A. He does 
now, but did not some time ago. He left there for about a year, but 
came back last year. 

Q Do you know his character "? — A. I think I know his character tol- 
erably well. 

Q. You know the estimate in which he is held in the community in 
which he resides ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Please state it.— A. Mr. Kestler is a barkeeper — keeps a bar-room — 
there in Salisbury. I have never heard anything against his truthful- 
ness and veracity as a man ; but he has no standing socially in the town 
at all, neither he nor his family. 

Q. Is he a man of bad repute in the community in which he lives'? — 
A. He is considered a man of loose habits; morally, his habits are not 
good. I don't know how to answer the question hardly. I never heard 
his truthfulness, or anything like that, ever brought into question. 

Q. Is he held in respect in that community'? — A. I do not think he is, 
sir. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q. So far as you know, Mr. Kestler's character for truthfulness is 
good 1 — A. So far as I know. 

Q. Being a barkeeper, he has no social x)Osition? — A. ISTo social posi- 
tion. 

Q. You say j^ou look upon this paying assessments as a matter of 
business"? — A, A matter of business and a matter of principle. 

Q. You were holding office at the hands of the government and were 
called upon to contribute something towards the support of the party '? — 
A. I was not called upon. I gave it of my own free will and accord, 
without ever having been solicited, and never received any intimation. 

Q. How did you come to do if? — A. I have held a government office 
for a long time, and always made contributions, but just prior to the 
election in 1880 1 had a conversation with Dr. Mott, who was then collec- 
tor of the district, and who expected to be chairman of the Republican 
State committee. I believe he was on his way then to Raleigh, and as 
we were speaking of the prospects of the party in the State and all that, 
and what amount of money probably could be raised, or would be raised, 
or something like that, he just remarked that he expected the ma- 
jority of the money that would be raised for the canvass would be raised 
in the sixth district; that he did not think the friends in the other parts 
of the State were going to contribute like they ought or could. I just 
simply asked him about what per cent, did he think would be appro- 
priate for an officer to give to help the canvass along, and I think he 
said 8 or 10 per cent. That was the only conversation we had. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 205 

Q. That was in 1880 '?— A. That was iu 1880, in the Garfield cam- 
paign. 

Q. How much did you give on that occasion ? — A. I gave my check. 
Do not remember whether it was $108 or 104. 

Q. Was it a month's salary ? — A. Yes, sir; a month's salary. I always 
gave that, even when I was connected with the Post-Oftice Department, 
iu a Presidential election. 

Q. That was twelve per cent., or a little over twelve per cent,, of your 
salary I — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did it happen that you were not officially called on like the 
others'? — A. I cannot tell you. 

Q. Because you had already subscribed? — A. I do not know how that 
is. I think they got my August check. Probably I gave the order to 
Dr. Mott to pay the check over to the chairman of the Kepublican State 
committee. 

Q. You are a storekeeper and ganger! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where were you assigned ?— A. To J. B. Lanier's distillery, near 
Salisbury, K. C. 

Q. Who was the storekeeper and ganger previous to you ; whom did 
you succeed ? — A. I succeeded Mr. Summers; he was sent there tempo- 
rarily. 

Q. Which Mr. Summers?— A. I think it is P. F, Summers. 

Q. Who immediately preceded him ?— A. A. L. Heilig. 

Q. Who preceded him?— A. 1 think Mr. Bruuer was the first store- 
keeper. Then the next storekeeper was Mr. Mock, and then Heilig, 
Summers, and myself. 

Q. How long did these men that preceded you stay there at that dis- 
tillery? — A. I cannot tell you. 

Q. They did not stay long, did they?— A. I do not think Bruner nor 
Mock staid there long,' but think Heilig staid somewhere from July or 
August until say about the first of March. 

Q. Four or five months? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know why these men who preceded you did not stay there 
longer ? — A. Xo, sir ; except Heilig. He was found absent from his 
distillery by a revenue agent and removed. 

Q. And Vhat had taken place when he was absenf? — A. I do not 
know anything about that. 

Q. Was it not said that a double mash was in the tubs! — A. I do not 
know how that was. I do not think they were mashing, if I remember 
correctly. / 

Q. While you were there, were any improper propositions made to 
you by the distillers to divide your pay, or anything of that sort! — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Had there been anything of that sort that you had heard of with 
your predecessors! — A. Nothing I ever heard of. 

Q. Where was Heilig when the distillery was found without him! — 
A. I think he was at home. He says he was sick. He lived about 10 
miles below Salisbury. 

Q. How far from tile distillery !— A. About 12 miles from the distil- 
lery. The distillery is 2 miles from town. 

Q. And the distillery was going on and he not present; that was the 
reason for his discharge! — A. That was what I heard. 

Q. Do you know anything about another allegation of storekeepers 
dividing their pay with distillers ? — A. I know nothing but what I have 
heard through reports that they did such a thing ; what I have seen in 
the newspapers. I never knew anything of my own knowledge. 



206 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Could you give the names of distillers or storekeepers who were 
said to do that thing"? — A. I never heard any specific person mentioned. 

Q. Do you know why Mr. Bruner left that distillery ? — A. I know 
nothing more than what I heard. I heard he left on personal grounds ; 
that the distiller asked for another storekeeper ; that he did not like Mr. 
Bruner, as a man. 

Q. How long have you been there? — A. 1 went there in March* two 
or three years, with an interregnum of about four months. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Do you know Mr. William M. Walker's general character? — A, 
Yes, sir; I think I do. 

Q. What is it? — A. He is a man of high character in every way, 
shape, and form; a man of truth, and a gentleman in every way. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Does he not keep a bar-room? — A. Not that I know of. He lives 
in Statesville. 

Q. Does he not sell liquor there, when not engaged in official duties — 
keeps a bar or something of that kind? — A. I do not know. I never 
liave heard that. He might. 

Q. Have you not heard of his being indicted in the State courts for a 
very disgraceful thing ; insulting ladies at a camp meeting? — A. I do not 
believe I have. I might have, but do not believe I ever heard it, sir. 

Q. Here is the language used by Mr. Kestler (quoting) : 

Q. Did you ever hear of his (Dr. Mott's) levying political assessments ?— A. I have, 
sir. 

Q. Did you know that that is forbidden by law? — A. I have heard so, sir; one man 
tnld nie he took a month of his salary for political assessments. An officer told me 
that, out of his own mouth. 

Q. Who was that ? — A. Allen Ramsay, a storekeeper. A cousin of John A.'s, I think. 

The Chairman. He did not use the word "compelled" to pay the 
assessments. 

J. M. Gray sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Statesville. 

Q. are you connected with the revenue service? — A. I am not now, 
I was until about four or five months ago. 

Q. How long were you connected with it ? — A. Since October, 1873. 

Q. Do you know the general character of the officers connected with 
the service around your section ? — A, Yes, sir ; I think I do. 

Q. Especially in Davie County ; that is your native county ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Will you state what their character is? — A. Their character, I 
think, is good — generally of the officers of Davie County. 

Q. Are they as respectable as any men in the county ? — A. I think 
so. 

Q. You have heard reports of the slanders made against the revenue 
officers of your district, have you not? — ^A. Yes, sir; I have heard 
them. 

Q. Do you knoM^ whether there was any truth in any of them? — A^ 
I do not know that there is any truth in them of my own knowledge. 

Q. Do you know of any instance of their dividing i)ay with the dis- 
tillers ? — A. 1 do not, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 207 

Q. Of course you liave heard reports of that kind? — A. Yes, sir: I 
have heard reports of that kind. 

Q. You have been assigned to a good many different distilleries ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; I have been to a good many in Davie County, some in Yad- 
kin, and some in Iredell. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any storekeeper dividing with the 
distiller"? — A. Xone in the world. 

Q. Did you ever divide, yourself, with a distiller '? — A. Never have. 

Q. Ever ai)proached for the purpose of being in<luced to do it ? — Au. 
Never have been. 

Q. Is the service in that district improved? — A. Yes, sir; I think 
there has been a geat deal of improvement since I went into the serv- 
ice — a decided improvement. When 1 lirst went in a good many looked 
upon revenue ofticers as if they were not very resi)ectable; that is, by 
a certain class of people. 

Q. Has the general state of public feeling improved in regard to the 
revenue ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Cross examination. 

By the Chair:\ian : 

Q. You swear that all the ofHcers that live in Davie County were 
men of good character ? — A. Yes, sir ; good character so far as I know. 

Q. Did you ever hear anything against any of them at all 'I — A. No, 
sir; I do not think I heard any one of them singled out. 

Q. You never heard of any ofticer in Davie County against whom one 
thing was charged ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Past or present"? — A. I may have heard through the newspapers, 
or something that way. 

Q. Where was Lanier's distillery? — A. That was in Davie. 

Q. Was not Mr. Heilig discharged from there for improper conduct? 
— A. I do not know. I heard he was. 

Q. Then you heard something against one revenue oflicer ? — A. I 
think you asked me of Davie County. 

Q. I did. You say Lanier's distillery is in Davie County"? — A. In 
Rowan County now. 

Q. You said Davie County ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. How many distilleries are there in Davie County '? — A, There are 
a good many; I suppose between 40 and 50. 

Q. Do you know W. M. Walker"?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State the character, if you know it, that he sustains in that com- 
munity where he lives. — A. I think his character is good. 

Q. You have heard him spoken of frequently by other people ? — A. 
I do not know that I have heard it treqnentl}'. 

Q. How long have you known him "? — A. For a good many years; I do 
not remember exactly how long; ten or twelve years — probably longer. 

Q. During that time you have known peoj^le with whom he has as- 
sociated in the community in which he lives"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And they say his character is good ? — A. Yes, sir; his character 
is good. 

Q. How long were you in the service "? — A. I went in in October, 
1873, and I have been in since that time up to six months ago. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Were you about Statesville much? — A. I have been about there 



208 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

for the last six months. My family have been living there for three 
years. 

Q. Does Walker sell liquor and beer there 1 — A. 'No, sir ; I do not 
think he does now. 

Q. When did he quit it"? — A. I do not know that he really did sell 
there. I heard some say he did, and others that he was not connected 
with it. I cannot say that he sold any at all. 

Q. You heard it said that he was interested in a saloon there! — A. 
Interested in a beer saloon ; yes, sir. 

The following witnesses were called for the government : 

J. F. Hellen sworn and examined : 
By the Chairman : 

Qnestion. Where do you reside ! — Answer. Winston, N. C. 

Q. Are you now connected with the internal-revenne service*? — A. I 
am not, sir. 

Q. Have you been "? — A. I was up to about a year ago. 

Q. How long were you in the revenue? — A. About three years. 

Q. In what capacity? — A. I had charge of the "Bonded spirits ac- 
count " in the collector's office of the fifth district. 

Q. In that capacity there, did you acquaint yourself thoroughly with 
the workings of the system i — A. I think I did. I endeavored to do so. 

Q. I want to get some information from you in relation to the duties, 
■&c., of general storekeepers. Will you describe what their duties 
are ? — A. The duty of the general storekeeper is to have charge of a 
warehouse containing spirits, where the distillerj^ has suspended. He 
may be in charge of one or more of these bonded warehouses. 

Q. What do you mean by being in charge of a bonded warehouse ; he 
does not stay there all the time? — A. Not unless the w^arehouse con- 
vtains over two thousand gallons of spirits, then his duty is to remain at 
the warehouse constantly. Otherwise, where the quantity is less than 
that, he should visit the warehouse once a month ; and it is his duty to 
go there and put the stamps on the whisky when tax paid, and deliver 
it to the owner. 

Q. If the owner wants to withdraw it from bond ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who carries the keys of that house ? — A. The general store- 
keeper. 

Q. And no one can enter it without his permission ? — A. No one can 
enter a warehouse under his charge without his permission. 

Q. Can any one else go and discharge these duties for him, of withdraw- 
ing, stamping, and tax-paying liquor ? — A. He cannot designate a man 
to go to one of these warehouses and withdraw the spirits, but the col- 
lector can designate any other general storekeeper to do that in case of 
emergency ; or if the storekeeper who had it in charge was not ijres- 
ent, or away on other duty, and it was necessary", in order to deliver the 
spirits to the distiller or owner, to have it done at once. 

Q. Now, for instance, if a distiller wanted to withdraw a barrel of 
whisky from bond, when he was under suspension, could the general 
storekeeper tell some other storekeeper and ganger to go and do that 
for him ? Would that be lawful ?— A. I think not. 

Q. Who would have to do that, himself or some other person specially 
designated by the collector to do if? — A. Some other general storekeeper 
would have to be designated by the collector. 

Q. According to the laws and regulations, can a deputy collector act 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 209 

as ganger, and receive ])ay for both oftices at the same time? — A. Xo, 
sir; a depnty collector cannot Lold two offices at the same time. 

Q. It was said in excuse for a man who drew pay as depnty collector 
and ganger, tliat it was done in tlie fonrtli district; have yon any knowl- 
edge of any such system in the fifth district ; was snch a thing done in 
that district Avhile yon were connected with it? — A. Not that I know of. 
Q. How are the depnty collectors, special depnties, gangers, store- 
keepers, general storekeepers and all subordinate officers, paid ? — A. 
They are paid per diem, on an acconnt made ont at the end of the month. 
The storekeepers and gangers and the general storekeepers are paid for 
the unmber of days they are employed by the collector. The depnty 
colletor is paid by the month. 

i}. Is that i)ayment in cash or by a check? — A. It is the cnstom now 
to pay them with a check. Each officer receives his check covering a 
month's payment at the end of the month, or as soon after as con- 
venient. 

Q. What bank is that check npon ? — A. In onr district it is on the 
depository — the First jSTational Bank at Winston is designated a United 
States depository ; before that occurred I think we did bnsiness with 
llichmond. 

Q. Have they any depository in Raleigh or Charlotte ? — A. I do not 
know, sir. 

Q. What does the collector do with the money — when he receives it ? 
— A. For taxes? 

Q. Yes? — A. The money he receiv^es for taxes is required by law to 
deposit in the depository each night ; or at least when we had the de- 
positor^^ in Richmond we had to put it in transit, and get a receipt for it 
that night. 

Q. You start it to the depository that same night ? — A. We start it. 
Q. The collector has no authority to keep money on hand to disburse, 
eveu for necessary purposes? — A. No, sir. 

Q. The nroney has to go to the United States depository, wherever it 
is, in that district ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. All moneys have to be paid ont in checks on the depository, and 
not in cash? — A. The money which the collector disburses, is not the 
money which he receives for taxes; that is put in the depository. The 
money which he disburses is sent to him by check from the Treasury 
Department, which goes to the depositorj^, and is drawn ujion for sala- 
i^ies, &c. ; it is a separate and distinct transaction entirely. 

Q. Did you know anything about the system of political assessments 
in the sixth district ? — A. I know very little about it. I know men who 
have been asked to contribute to the cause, and have contributed. 

Mr. Pool. Are you speaking about the fifth ? — A. I am speaking 
about the fifth, not the sixth ; I don't know anything about it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Did you know anything about the alleged practice of storekeepers 
dividing tiieir pay with distillers ? — A. No, sir ; I have heard those ru- 
mors, but I do not know anything about it — not a thing. 

Q. You have heard rumors of that kind ? — A. I have heard rumors, 
yes, sir. I do not suppose there is anybody in the western part of the 
State but what has. 

Q. I will ask you if there has been an improvement in the revenue 
department, and in the feeling of the peox)le towards it, and if illicit dis- 
tilleries have become less, and frauds on the government have been di- 
minished in that part of North Carolina ? — A. Blockading has diminished 
S. Mis. 116 14 



210 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

very materially siuce I went tliere, four years ago, and I think the feel- 
ing also has improved. 

Q. What do you attribute that to f — A. I think you can attribute it 
to the better understanding of the law, and also to better management, 
possibly, on the part of the officers. I think a good deal can be attrib- 
uted to better management on the part of the officers. They are learn- 
ing constantly. 

Q. Has the character of the officers improved lately ? Is there a bet- 
ter class of men in the service 1 — A. I think as long as I was in the 
service the class of officers was improving. I have not known much 
about it since. 

Q. Did the action of the Federal courts, granting amnesty to those who 
confessed their sins and took out licenses, have an effect to diminish 
illicit distilling ? — A. I only get that from report. I am not familiar 
•enough with the question at that time to make such a decision myself as 
to it. I think it had very little effect. I do not think it amounted to 
much. 

Q. I am not speaking of the sixth district, I am speaking generally. — 
A. I am speaking generally. Of course, all the information I have was 
from the tifth district. 

Q. What was the percentage of the cost of collection in the fifth dis- 
trict when you were connected with it *? — A. 1 think it was in the neigh- 
borhood of 3^ per cent., possibly. 

Q. Do you know what it was in the sixth district ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. According to the reports of the Commissioner of Internal Eevenue 
it was 54 per cent. — A. I had never noticed that until the i^rogress of 
this investigation. 

Q. I will ask you if you have sufficient knowledge to state if the sixth 
district is a worse one to manage than the fifth 1 — A. I have not any 
knowledge; nothing to guide me in that; my impression is, as it 
stretches over a larger territory, of course, it is more difficult to manage; 
and it is a more mountainous region than that of the fifth, and more 
opportunities present themselves for blockading. 

Q. In that it is a mountainous region, and covers a larger space of 
territory, it is a more difficult region to manage than the fifth *? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How is it in the character of the population ? — A. I think the 
character of the population is similar, though I have never been over 
only a small portion of the sixth district ; but I think the class of people 
is about the same. 

Q. Are you a native of that country? — A. Yes, sir; born and raised 
in that State. 

Q. What county 1 — A. I was born in Carteret County, and raised in 
Craven. 

Q. How long have you been a resident in the part of the State in 
which you now live ? — A. Four years next September. 

Cross-examined by Mr. Pool : 

Q. How long were you connected with the revenue service ? — A. About 
three years. 

Q. Commencing when? — A. September, 1878, I think. 

Q. You said that under the law a storekeeper cannot also be a 
deputy ? — A. That was my understanding of it. 

Q. Is it not a regulation instead of a law ? — A. Is it not a regula- 
tion? 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOETH CAROLINA. 211 

Q. Yes; a department regulation ? — A. Yes, sir; it is a regulation 
I refer to. 

Q. You tlitl uot mean tliat it is a statute ? — A. Xo, sir. 

Q. Do you know when that regulation was made ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know what the regulations were on that subject in 1872-'73, 
and along there ? — A. .1 had nothing to do with the revenue service at 
that time, and in my studies never took that qiiestion up. 

Dr. MoTT. In regard to the duties of general storekeepers, do you 
know they have divisions ? 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

Dr. MoTT. A certain number of distilleries to attend to, and that fre- 
quently they are scattered over a considerable extent of country — some- 
times several counties. A storekeeper would probably have a call to 
take out whisky at two or three points at the same time in his division. 
Did you know that these whisky men always want to sell directly on an 
order f 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

Dr. MoTT. And that it would be a great hardship for them if they 
had to wait from time to time for the storekeeper to visit the different 
sections, and probably lose a transaction in their business through that 
waiting ? 

The W^iTNESS. Yes, sir. I said in answering the question before that 
I considered it was the privilege of the collector to designate a party to 
^o and attend to a case of that kind. I do not think a general store- 
keeper himself has a right to designate any one. 

Mr. MoTT. I want to make it appear why it would be necessary for 
the general storekeeper, in that condition of things, to send some one 
else in his place. 

The Witness. I know it is frequentl}^ done. They have to go to other 
than their own warehouses. 

Dr. MoTT. And it is done for the accommodation of the distillers ? 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Can he not designate another one to go, with the consent of the 
collector! — A. Yes, sir; that would be the same as the collector desig- 
nating him. 

Q. He could designate one if the collector consented ? — A. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That would be the collector's designating him. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. With regard to disbursements, has not the collector a right to 
teep the money that is given to him for the purpose of paying his offi- 
cers wherever he pleases and disburse it from wherever he pleases ? — 
A. I cannot say that I consider that so, from the fact that it has been 
the custom of the fifth district always to deposit the check we received 
from the Secretary of the Treasury in the depository. 

Q. You do not know of any regulation requiring that to be done? — 
A. I cannot recollect any regulation ; no, sir. 

Q. Has not the disbursing officer the right to pay his money from 
where he pleases under the regulations ? Does he not give his bond for 
it ? — A. Yes, sii" ; he gives a bond for it, but whether he has a right or 
not to pay it as he i^leases I cannot say ; I am not well enough acquainted 
with the regulation in regard to that matter. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. The statute gives the force of law to the regulations, which are 
made to carry out the law, does it not ? — A. I i^resume so. 



212 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

T. K. Bruner sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do yon reside? — Answer. Salisbury, N. C. 

Q. Have yon been at any time connected with the internal-revenue 
service in North Carolina'? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. From when, to when? — A. I was appointed division deputy to 
take effect from August 1, 1878 ; I acted as division deputy until Janu- 
ary 1, 1879, at which time I was aj)pointed a storekeeper and ganger, 

Q, Where were you first assigned as storekeeper and ganger ? — A. 
At John W. Miller's, in Eowan County. 

Q. How long did you stay at his distillery ? — A. I think about a 
month and a half 5 some time about the middle of February I left his 
place. 

Q. Why did you leave ? — A. Well, sir, there was considerable trouble 
between him and myself iu regard to the business. He found he was 
falling back and desired to catch up, and wanted me to allow the mashing: 
of more meal than the law allowed him to use. 

Q. Just explain all that took pla,ce between you. — A. It is quite a 
little story. He had been after me for sometime; I had beenrefusingy 
and finally one day he broke out with very violent exclamations, and 
said he would turn out all the beer in the distillery if I did not allow 
him to do it. 

Q. Did you allow him to do it? — A. I have forgotten the number of 
bushels in the mash that he wanted to put in to catch up. 

Q. The law did not allow him to do that? — A. No, sir; the law did 
not allow it ; he wanted to do it without my reporting him. I refused 
to allow him to do so, and he refused to mash any further. He abused 
me a good deal at his house that evening, and in fact run me oft" about 
sundown. 

Q. Did he suspend? — A. He did ; yes, sir. I boarded at another man's 
house for the four days following to finish out what was in his distillery^ 
and he suspended. 

Q. How long did he stay suspended ? — A. I don't think he ever ran 
again. Another Miller bought his interest. I told Dr. Mott most of 
the circumstances connected with this, and I think Miller was cognizant 
of that fact, and don't think he ever applied for another storekeeper: 
but there was a change made, and they ran from the time of the new 
change. 

Q. What became of you then ? — A. Then I was assigned to Nash's, in 
Davie County. 

Q. How long did you stay there? — A. I staid there a mouth and three 
days. 

Q. Why did you leave there ? — A. Troubles of the same character 
forced me away from there. I was importuned from the first at that 
place to allow double mashes and the introduction of extra tubs, or to 
divide pay. The man told me, just before I left him, that had been 
his calculation, and that it was the general rule of the country; that 
every storekeeper did that, and that unless I did it he would have to 
quit; he felt he was a "broke man." 

Q. That was the general rule of the country, he said? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he say that any other storekeeper had done so for him ? — A . 
Yes, sir; he had been blockading, and the revenue officers had caught 
him and seized what he had. When I went there, there were two bar- 
rels in the warehouse that I had to take charge of^ — that had been seized 
by Dr. Mott's officers. I got instructions from the office what to do with 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 213 

theiii, but lie told ine that was the custom and he had built his distillery 
for it, and failing' in that he felt vt ry ninch hurt, and he thought it was 
my duty to allow that. 

Q. He had been caught blockading aiul built his distillery for that 
purpose? — A. A'es, sir; that was what he said. He had a beer well in 
there, which he said the government allowed him to use. I told him 
certainly he could use it ; it was a very large one, and I showed him how 
it was to be used. He objected that that would not do him any good ; 
he did not care to put his beer into this well and to put it into the stills 
again ; he wanted a double mash and to use the well as a receptacle 
for his beer. 

Q. AYhat was the object of his wanting to usetiie beer well ? — A. So 
iis to get iu more beer than the law allowed him. 1 refused to allow him 
to use the well, and he insiiuiated that the government allowed him to 
have a well for that purpose ; that that was the way they were used in 
that section. 

Q. AVhat was the result of it ? — A. I was very much troubled about 
it, and had written Dr. Mott a letter, which I did not send because I met 
his deputy, Mr. Dwire, and got some advice from him, and continued in 
my course until he suspended. 

Q. He suspended f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did he stay in suspension ? — A. I don't know sir. I don't 
think that he ever ran again ; not that I know of. 

Q. Where did you go from there? — A. From there I think it was to 
Mr. Lanier's, in Kowan County, who was just starting. 

Q. How long did you stay with him ? — A. About a month. 

Q. How came you to leave him ? — A. He did not like me, he told me. 
I think possibly he notified Dr. Mott that he did not like me personally, 
and desired a change ; and I did not like my place there, and so I ap- 
lilied for a change. 

Q. Who took your ])lace? — A, I think Mr, Mock took my place. 

Q. Were not propositions made to you by him? — A. By Lanier? No, 
sir; no propositions, l)ut he issued some orders, and I countermanded 
the orders. 

Q. What were his orders ? — A. The distiller told me he had ordered 
him to put in more meal. I told the distiller if he did I would lock him 
up and take the keys to Statesville. 

Q. You left there in consequence of that? — xV. That occurred about 
two weeks after I went there — that lie issued these orders and I counter- 
manded them; he wanted to know "what in the hell I meant by that"? 
I tod him "that was my duty." A short time after that he told me he 
did not like me personally, and wanted me to leave. 

Q. And you left? — A. Yes, sir; I went to Dr. Mott and got him to 
change me to Lowe & Arey's. These gentlemen had over two thou- 
sand gallons of spirits in their warehouse and were not running. I 
staid with them until they drew out below two thousand gallons, and 
then I was idle for several months. My next appointment was to Mc- 
Culloh's, in Davie County. 

(). What took jjlace there? — A. I got along pretty well for the first 
two months. They asked me to allow them to increase the mash and 
to have the key of the cisteru-rooin. Of course these requests were re- 
fused, and one morning early in May Mr. Spry, who was the backbone 
of the institution, came to me and demanded $100. 

Q. What for? — A. To tax-pay some whisky. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. To loan him $100? — A. No, sir; he just demanded it; he told me 



214 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

lie wanted $100. I told him I could not give it to liiin; the law did] 
not allow me to give him any assistance whatever, but I had a friend 
who was a banker in Salisbury, and that if he gave good real-estate- j 
security I could put him in a way to get that. He said he did not want 
to pay any interest on it, but that he wanted to get it from me. I told 
him I could not let him have it. Then he told me he intended to quit 
and would not run his distillery any more. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Unless you would let him have the hundred dollars? — A. Unless 
I would let him have the hundred dollars. I did not do so, and in con- 
sequence he stopped. Just after stopping he got some one to send a 
complaint to the office to the effect that I had been so careless as to allow 
forty gallons of whisky to leak out, and I suppose at the same time he 
made application for a new storekeeper. He got a new storekeeper di- 
rectly after, and went on. 

Q. Whom did he get '? — A. A man named Jones. 

Q. He suspended to get rid of you ? — A. I should say so ; it looked so. 

Q. Did you inform the collector of these things'? — A. I don't think I 
informed the collector of these affairs there ; they seemed to me to be- 
personal between the distiller and myself. I knew the collector was al- 
ready burdened with as much as he could attend to, and that there was 
no use to inform him, and so I did not. 

Q. How long did he stay suspended ? — A. Possibly two or three weeks, 
or a month; until he could make new arrangements. 

Q. And then he ran right on 1 — A. I suppose so. I resigned the serv- 
ice just after that. It was the beginning of the campaign of 1880 ; I re- 
signed in June. 

Q. Were you called on, while iu the service, for political assess- 
ments? — A. I got a circular from this city — the committee in this city — 
asking me for a contribution. 

Q. You mean the national executive committee of the Eepablican 
party? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you receive that directlj^ from headquarters here, or from the 
office ? — A. 1 think that came directly from Washington City. 

Q. How much were you called upon to contribute ? — A. Xo amount 
was stated. I think it did state that he hoped it would not be less than 
twenty-five dollars, or something of that sort. 

Q. Did you respond ? — A. I did not. 

Q. When was that? — A. I received two ; the last one I received, pos- 
sibly, was in April, 1880. I have forgotten when the other was received. 
I have received one since I left the service. 

Q. What do you know about political assessments levied upon 
others? — A. Nothing, except it was generally said that thej'were levied 
and collected. 

Q. You know nothing of j^our own personal knowledge? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Are you acquainted with the general character of William H. 
Kestler? — A. I suppose so. He used to live in our town there some- 
times. He has been conducting a saloon, and is considered an orderly 
man, and a man of. character so far as truth is concerned. I have bad 
business dealings with him and others, and he has always met his obli- 
gations. 

Q. He is considered a truthful man ? — A. Yes, sir. A saloon-keeper,, 
of course, makes no pretence to social standing, or anything of that 
kind. He is connected in business, however, with one of our moneyed. 



■ THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAEOLINA. 215 

men, and at present is running a restaurant and saloon together in the 
hotel. 

Q. Is he connected with any businessman of character? — A. Yes, 
sir; with Luke Blackmar and Mr. Frerchs. 

Q. Mr. Blackmar is a lawyer of high standing, is he not? — A. Yes. 
sir. 

Q. Mr. Frerchs is one of the moneyed men in that place ? — A. Yes sir. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool: 

Q. You have resided in Salisbury for some length'of time ? — A. All 
my life. 

Q. You are a Democrat in politics! — A. I am, sir. 

Q. And appointed by Dr. Mott as a storekeeper at what time — how 
long ago ? — A. As storekeeper and ganger — the 1st of January, 1870. 

Q. You were first assigned to Mr. Miller's? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were they very plain people ? — A. Yes, sir ; he was a magistrate 
of the county, but iilain for all that. 

Q. And his family? — A. Plain, common people; yes, sir. 

Q. Was not your difliculty this, that you carried city manners out 
there — dressed up nicely, behaved yourself as in town — and that did 
not suit these people ? — A. Not at all. I took the oldest clothes I had, 
and colored shirts, and looked as ordinary as any countryman. I made 
my habits conform to theirs, and was generally liked in thejieigbbor- 
hood outside of Mr. Miller's family, and can bring a hundred Vitnesses 
to testify to that. 

Q. Were you liked by the other members of the family ? — A. All the 
other members of the family except himself. 

Q. Did you board at Nash's ? — A. I did not board at Nash's at all. 
My recollection is he wanted forty dollars a month board. I boarded 
with A. M. Bowie, a prominent citizen of Davie County. I paid him, I 
think, fifteen dollars a month, but it was better board than I could have 
gotten in any hotel in the county; the boarding place was nearer to the 
distillery than Nash's house.- 

Q. Had you and Mr. Lanier been personally friendly '? — A. I cannot 
say that we had been. 

Q. Had there been any personal unfriendliness ? — A. I think not, for 
I barely knew him. He had just moved to our county from Davie, and 
I hardly knew him before he came there. 

Q. You were assigned first to one place and then to another, without 
any delay between times ? — A. The first three assignments were pretty 
close together. I think I was idle from the time I left Lowe & Arey's, 
some time in August, 1870, until Febrnary, 1880, nearly six months. 

Q. You resigned your office voluntarily? — Yes, sir; I thought it was 
best for me to do so. 

Q. In 1880, when the campaign was coming on? — A. Yes, sir ;1tlie 
1880 campaign was coming on ; some Democrats w^ere desertingj our 
party, the party lines were being drawn closely, and I thought it was 
best to go on my own side. 

Q. Were you not connected with a Democratic newspaper ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I am, as local and mining editor of the Watchman one of the best 
Democratic papers in the country. I will say voluntarily that I never 
received any personal appeal from Dr. Mott, while in his service, to 
make any political sacrifice. 

Adjcurned to Julj^ 8, at 1 p. m. 



216 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Washington, D. C, Juhj 8, 1882. 

The committee met at 1 p. m. 

Tlie following witnesses were called in behalf of Dr. Mott: 

H. Y. Mott sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside, doctor? — Answer. Iredell County, 
North Carolina. 

Q. What is your occupatiou? — A. Now, sir? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I am engaged in the internal-revenue service. 

Q. Were you acting as deputy from the 31st of March, 1873, during 
the quarter, on to the 30th of June, 1873 ? — A. My recollection of these 
things that occurred at that time is very indistinct. I went into, the 
revenue service in March, 1873. I acted as deputy collector for two or 
three months. 

Q. Do you recollect whether you acted up to the 30th of June ? — A. 
For about that time. 

Q. Where did you reside at that time ? — A. In Lincoln County. 

Q. Did you receive your x^ay ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I observe that there was no original voucher sent in by Mr. Clarke, 
who was at that time principal clerk for the department, but he sent in 
for Mr. Kestler ; how did that mistake happen on the part of Mr. Clarke, 
do you know ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did Mr. Clarke know you were a deputy '? — A. I suppose he did. 
I got instructions from the ofiice about my duties, and so on, and blanks 
on which to transact my business. 

Q. You don't know how he came to send in an original voucher for 
Mr. Kestler and none for you ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. (Handing papers to the witness). There is an amended vouclier 
put in for you during that time, amounting to $332.97 ; did you receive 
that ? — A. I do not recollect the exact amount, but I got my money. 
(Examining the voucher.) That is my signature, sir. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q. I see, doctor, that in the original vouchers filed and abstracts 
made for settlement in the ofSce here that your name does not appear, 
for that period, for the second quarter of 1873, from the 31st of March 
to the 30th of June ; were you in the service then "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did it come that your name did not appear here for pay for 
that time ? — A. I do not know, sir ; my recollection of the occurrence 
is but very indistinct. I knew nothing in the world about the working 
of the Revenue Department at that time. I lived miles from the office, 
and only know I was called upon for this amended voucher. 

Q. Had you made any claims for pay before you were called on to 
give the amended voucher. Dr. Mott ? The voucher was in 1874 ; the 
money was due in 1873. — A. Oh, yes. 

Q. What is your answer ; that you made no claims for pay before that 
time '.' — A. Oh, no ; I got my pay before that time. 

Q. What time did jou get your pay! — A. I do not remember. 

Q. You had got your i^ay before? — A. In what I conceived to be a 
reasonable time after the work was jjerformed. I do not exactly re- 
member how it was. 

Q. The amended voucher is sworn to on the 25th of August, 1874, 
and this money was due June 30, 1873 ; that was nearly 14 months 
afterwards "? — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 217 

Q. Now, liow long" after the 30tli of June, 1873, was it until you got your 
mouey ? — A. 1 cannot tell you ; I do not remember. 

Q. Do you remember it was belbretlie 25tU of August? — A. Oh, yes, 
sir ; before 1874 '? 

Q. Yes. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If you were paid before that time, you were paid before the voucher 
was made out! — A. I do uot know, sir; I cannot tell you anything- 
about that. 

(}. As you say you do not know that any voucher was put in by Mr. 
Clarke, and the one you did sign to put in was on the 2r)th of August, 
so that if paid before that, so far as you know, 3'ou were yinid before the 
voucher? — A. So far as I know. 

Q. Your name does uot appear on this original voucher ? — A. That is 
so. 

Q. Did you know when these vouchers that were amended were put 
into the office ? — A. I do not know that. 

Q. When did you say your commission began as deputy collector? — 
A. My recollection of it is that I did some work in March ; but on recon- 
sidering the matter the vouchers were uot put in for longer than April — 
from the 1st of April, I think. 

Q. Have you your commission with ^^ou? — A. No, sir; I have not. 

Q. Do you remember the date of it? — A. I do uot; my imi^ressiou is 
it was some time in March. 

Q. 1873 ? — A. Yes, sir ; I do uot remember. 

Q. How did it come that you did not apply at the time your pay was 
due, on the 30th of June? — A. Well, sir, I do not know ; I cannot tell 
you. As I said at the outset, my recollection of everything that oc- 
curred then is very indif-tinct, and I want it understood that way; wheu 
I testify ai to matters of detail I do not remember much about it. All 
I remember is that I was perfectly satisfied with the transaction; and I 
got the money that was allowed me in what I conceived to be a reason- 
able length of time. 

Q. Did you act as storekeeper and ganger a part of the time you were 
deputy collector ? — A. No, sir; I acted as general storekeeper, I think, 
for about five or six days in the latter part of the last mouth in which I 
was deput3\ 

Q. Did you draw jiay for it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For two offices at the same time? — A. For five or six days; that is 
my recollection. I do not recollect exactly the time, and have not re- 
ferred to these things to see. 

Q. Do you know who else were deputies at the same time with you? — 
A. I forget. I do not remend)er one. 

Q. You were general storekeeper only for five or six days ? — A. IMy 
commission came as general storekeei)er five or six days before the last 
month I was deputy ran out. 

Q. Did you theu cease to be deputy ? — A. At the end of the month ; 
yes, sir. 

Q. And became general storekeeper ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What division were yon assigned to as general storekeeper ? — A. 
I believe it was the third — I am not certain how the divisions ran at that 
time — consisting- of Gaston, Lincoln, Catawba, &c. 

Q. AVas Mr. Clarke's distillery, that was afterwards seized, iu your 
division"? — A. Clarke's? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I was not general storekeeper at that time. I am 
a special gauger, and have been for years. 



218 COLLECTIOX OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. There was a Mott wlio was general storekeeper then ; that was 
your brother? — A. Yes, sir 5 Walter Mott. 

Q. Yon are now general storekeeper ? — A. ISTo, sir. 1 am a special 
ganger. 

Q. You are a physician by profession, doctor ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do yon practice your profession ? — A, ISTo, sir. 

Q. You do not practice now ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. (Examining list of storekeepers and gangers). In the last quarter 
of June, 1873, I lind the department has you charged with a part of the 
month of June, $20 ; that covers what? — A. As general storekeeper? 

Q. For the time you spoke of — five or six days ? — A. I think that is 
the time. 

Q. Then you say you ceased to be deputy and continued to be a store- 
keeper during the balance of the term ? — A. General storekeeper. 

Q. Are you a brother of the collector ? — A. Yes, sir. 

J. B. Howell sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Statesville. 

Q. What is your occupation ? — A. Storekeeper and ganger. 

Q. How long have you been in the revenue service ? — A. I went into 
the service in 1876 ; my first assignment was in July, 1876. 

Q. Do you know William M. Walker, who was a witness on the stand 
here? — A. Do I know him? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I know him very well. 

Q. Do you know his character in the com-munity where he lives? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Please state what it is. — A. His character is good. 

Q. He is a man of high standing ? — A. Well, sir, I think his charac- 
ter for truth, honesty, and principle is as good as any man's in the com- 
munity ; that he is a man that stands on principle. 

Q. He is an earnest, resolute man, is he ? — A. Yes, sir ; very. 

Q. Do you know the character of Dr. Mott ? — A. Yes, sir ; Dr. Mott's 
character is good. 

Q. How long have you been living in that section ? — A. I have been 
living in Statesville about ten years. 

Q. Can you state what Dr. Mott's character is ? — A. Yes ; Dr. Mott's 
character is good. 

Q. Is Dr. Mott well known all Ihrough that country? — A. Yes, sir 5 
he has been collector of internal revenue for a long time, and is exten- 
sively known. 

Q. Do you know a man in all that section that stands higher in a 
social way and in all the points that make up a good citizen ? — A. I 
think not. 

Q. He stands as high as anybody ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has his character been affected by these revenue rumors? — A. 
Well, I don't know that it has, especially with persons who had the 
opportunity to know something of the service. I do not think the 
rumors have injured the doctor. 

Cross-examination by the Chaieman : 
Q. You say you have been in the service since 1876 ? — A. Since the 
year 1876 ; yes, sir. " 

Q. Have yon been called on at any time during your service to pay 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 2 ID 

political assessineiits ? — A. I have contributed to political things several 
times. 

Q. How much generally '? — A. I don't think I have ever paid more 
than $35 at a time. 

Q. Did you ever at any time pay a check for a month's wages'? — A.. 
]^o, sir ; I never did. 

Q. Do you know if any others did? — A. Yes, sir ; it was done by 
some, but I don't know it of my own knowledge. 

Q. Have you heard others say that they did ? — A. Yes, sir; I think 
I have. • 

Q. How did it happen that you were let ofl^" for less than the others f 
— A. I was not on duty at that time when these checks were given. 

Q. And they did not call upon those who were not doing work ? — A. 
I can only answer for myself. 

Q. You were not called upon? — A. No, sir; I was not called on. 

Q. How much do you suppose you have contriluited altogether? — A» 
I do not know. I do not know how much at difil'ereut times — have no 
idea. 

Q. Have you any idea about how much you paid ? — A. I have not a 
very definite idea ; I have paid as high as $25 at one time, and different 
amounts at different times. 

Q. Can you give me an idea of how much was collected in the cam- 
paign of 1880, for that jnirpose, out of the revenue officers '? — A. No, sir;; 
I cannot ; I do not know how much. 

Q. What distilleries were you assigned to? — A. I have been at several. 

Q. Give us the names, beginning with the first one. — A. The first one- 
was Mr. Cline's, in Catawba County. 

Q. How long did you stay there"? — A. I staid there sixty days ,• at 
that time we were changed every sixty days from one place to another. 

Q. Was that by order from headquarters"? — A. Y>s, sir; from the col- 
lector, I suppose. 

Q. How long did that order continue ? — A. I do not know, sir; here 
had been such an order before I Avent into the service. 

Q. How long did it operate on you? — A. I went from Cline's to Gas- 
ton County, to Mr. Suggs's. 1 staid there sixty days. I then went to 
Mr. Ehyne's, in Gaston County. 

Q. A. B. •? — A. Yes, sir; I staid there sixty days, and went then to 
Davie County, to Mr. J. 15. Lanier's; I staid there fourteen or fifteen 
months. 

Q. Now, at any of these distilleries, was an improper proposition made- 
to you about dividing your pay? — A. Never. 

Q. At none of them? — A. Never a word. 

Q. No solicitations to permit them to violate the law with regard to 
mashing, carrying the keys, and so on? — A. No, sir; I never permitted 
anything of tliat kind, and I never was approached in that way. 

Q, Do you know of any case where that was done? — A. I do not of 
my own knowledge. I have heard this rumor that is in the country, 
that in some instances ofiicers had divided their pay, but I do not know 
whether there is any truth in it or not. 

Q. But you heard it. Can you tell us of whom you heard it? — A. I 
do not know that I ever heard the charge preferred against any one par- 
ticularly. I never heard nuich about it at all till this investigation, 
was going on. 

Q. When you were at Rhyne's, in Gaston County, how many distill- 
eries had he in operation ? — A. He was running two. 

Q. How near were they to each other? — A. About half a mile. 



220 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Were they both on his lancH — A. I do not know that; I suppose 
that they were. 

Q. Who was the other storekeeper '?— A. Mr. Ferguson; he was a 
Dallas man. 

Q. Was he any kin to Ehyne ? — A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Where did you board! — A. I boarded at Mr. Hoffman's, in Dallas. 

Q. In the town ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much did you pay for board ? — A. Fifteen dollars a month. 

Q. How far was that from Ehyne's distillery? — A. About a mile and 
a half. 

Q. Did you know whether Ehyne had originally one distillery or 
two? — A I do not know. 

Q. What was the capacity of the one to which you were attached ? — 
A. My recollection is that it was six bushels per day. 

Q. bo you know what he sold whisky at? — A. I do not. 

Q. Did you never hear him say, or people say, that were buying from 
liim, what they were buying it from him at"? — A. I do not recollect. I 
might have heard it mentioned, but I do not recollect anything about 
it now. 

Q. Had he sold any quantity of it while you were a storekeeper 
there ? — A. I think he did. 

Q. He was selling it all the time? — A. He was selling occasionally, of 
course. I do not recollect now. 

Q. Do you know whether he sold much of it in kegs of less than five 
gallons'? — A. Is^o, sir; I do not know that he did. 

Q. Did he have a license to retail? — A. I do not think he had when 
I was with him. I do not think I ever knew him to sell whisky except 
in the original packages — put into the distillery barrels. 

Q. Did you know a revenue agent by the name of Chapman ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q, Did Mr. Chapman visit Mr. Ehyne's distillery while you were 
there ? — A. No, sir ; I was there before Chapman came into the coun- 
try. Mr. Chapman came into North Carolina after that. 

Q. You stopped at Mr. Lanier's, in Davie County? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And staid fourteen months? — A. Yes, sir; fourteen or fifteen 
months. 

Q. Where did you go from there? — A. To Mr. Johnson's, in Wilkes 
County. Combs & Johnson was the firm. 

Q. How long did you stay there? — A. Four or five mouths. 

Q. Whom did you'board with?— A. With Mr. Johnson— the father and 
father-in-law of the proprietors. 

Q. What did you pay there for board?— A. Ten dollars a month. 

Q. Was that the common price of the country? — A. I do not know, 
sir; I reckon about the ordinary price. 

Q. How did you come to leave there? — A. They suspended the dis- 
tillery operations. 

Q. How long did they remain in suspension ? — A. I do not think that 
they started again. 

Q. Do you think it is still under suspension? — A. I think so. 

Q. Where did you go from there ?— A. I think I went to Cabarrus 
County, to Mr. Fisher's distillery. 

Q. How long did you stay with him ?— A. About three mouths, I 
think — until he suspended his distillery. 

Q. How long did he stay under suspension?— A. I think he started 
again in a month or two, but only ran a short time. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOETH CAROLINA. 221 

Q. Did he start again witli yon as storekeeper? — A. No, sir; with a 
luau by the name of Lawrence. 

Q. Can you give the committee information of any improper thing 
that was done, or violation of the hnv, during the time you were con- 
nected with the service? — A. I liave no information of that kind to 
impart. 

Q. Did you not work for Mr. Drake, wlio was a general storekeeper? — 
A. I went one time. I was going up into Catawba County, and Mr. 
Drake had the keys of some distillery near Newton, and he asked me — 
a gentleman had written to him wanting to get his still caps out of the 
cistern-room or warehouse, where they were locked up, so as to make 
brand3\ Drake told me to take the keys of it and let him take the caps 
out. 

Q. Do you know of others who did work for him? — A. No, sir; I do 
not. 

Q. Did you ever know of his doing any work for himself? — A. Yes, 
sir; I frequently have seen him leaving town and returning, and heard 
of his being absent. 

Q. You do not know what he was doing when he was gone? — A. He 
was a general storekeeper, and was putting tax-paid stamps on whisky 
for parties. 

Q. You heard this, but did you ever see him doing that? — A. I never 
saw him do it at all. I never saw him stamp liquor. 

Q. You saw him going out of town, and it was said he was going to 
do that? — A. I heard him talk about it himself. 

Q. Was he not very constantly in his office? — A. I don't know; I am 
not myself frequently in his oflHce. 

Q. He edited and ran a paper all the time he was in the service ? — 
A. I think his son is proprietor of the paper and he is editor. 

Q. That is recently? — A. No, sir; that has been the case for several 
years. 

Q. Who edits the paper? — A. It used to be E. B. Drake. 

Q. Do you not know that he edits it now *? — A. I suppose that he gives 
it his attention. 

Q. His sou Will is in the service ? — A. No, sir ; he never has been; 
that I know of. If he ever has been in the service I do not know it. 

Dr. MoTT. He was in the service before you came. 

The Witness. I did not know that he ever had been. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. What is Mr. Drake's character ?— A. Good. 

Q. Is anybody's better? — A. I think not. 

The Chairman. Which one are you speaking of? 

Mr. Pool. I spoke about Mr. E. B. Drake, the one that he is testify- 
ing about. 

Q. How long has he been editor of the Statesville American? — A. I 
do not know ; he has been connected with the jiaper in Statesville for a 
long time. I think before the war. 

Q. What is his age ? — A. He is sixty-five years old, I would say. 

Q. Is there a man in the country of better character than Mr. Drake ? — 
A. I think not. 

Q. Did you ever make any i)olitical contributions against your will ? — 
A. I never did. 

Q. All were freely made? — A. Always. 

Q. Did you ever know of anybody being constrained, by threats or 



"222 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

otherwise, to make these contributions? — A. I never did; I never heard 
anything of the kind. 

Q. I think you named tive different distilleries to which you were 
assigned? — A. Yes, sir; I have forgotten how many I have named; I 
have been to several. 

Q. You say you never had any improper proposition made to you by 
any of these distillers? — A. I never have. 

Q. You said some suspended while you were there?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you know why they suspended? — A. Mr. Combs and John- 
son, they stopped their distillery and moved it off to another part of the 
■county. In fact, one of them went out of the business. Combs moved 
his distillery ten or twelve miles from where it was. Where I had been 
staying was near the Yadkin Eiver. 

Q. You never divided your pay with them? — A. JSTever did. 

Q. You never permitted them to do anything to your knowledge that 
was unlawful? — A. I never did. 

Q. Have you any reason to believe thej^ suspended because you w^ould 
not divide? — A. ]!»ro, sir; I never had a proposition of that kind made 
to me. 

Q. You have no reason to believe they suspended on that account? — 
A. Xo, sir; none at all. 

Q. You staid thirteen months at Lanier's? — A. I was there fourteen 
=or fifteen months. 

Q. Till it suspended, or did it not suspend? — A. He did not suspend; 
there was another man sent there to take my place. 

W. F. Henderson sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. Lexington, N. C. 

Q. How long have you resided there? — A. I have resided there since 
1866 or 1867, I forget which. 

Q. Were you once an assessor of internal revenue? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. During the time you were assessor of internal revenue, where did 
jou reside ? — A. I resided in Salisbury. 

Q. You had your office there ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You remained assessor up to the time that the office was abol- 
ished ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was in 1873, I believe ? — A. Yes, sir ; I was appointed in 
1869, and I think the office was abolished in June or July, 1873. 

Q. That was in the sixth district ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you then well acquainted with the people of the sixth dis- 
trict ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you resided in Salisbury at the time ? — A. I was well ac- 
quainted with the business men of the district. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Kestler, the witness that has been here ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you known him? — A. When I first knew Kestler 
lie was living in Concord, in 1869. He afterwards removed to Salisbury. 
I forget what year he removed to Salisbury, perhaps 1871; somewhere 
along there. 

Q. Have you frequently been in Salisbury since that time?— A. I have 
remained in Salisbury nearly every day until 1873. 

Q. I mean since 1873 ?• — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How far is Lexington from Salisbury ? — A. Sixteen miles. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 223 

Q. Will you state what Mr. Kestler's character is ? — A. His character 
is not good. 

Q. lu what respect is it bad ? and please state all about it. — A. It is 
cousidered in that community as being- bad for truth. 

Q. Do you gather your impression of his chara(;ter from having talked 
with prominent men there and hearing them si)eak of him? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. From the best citizens of Salisbury? — A. As good as any other. 

Q. As to general character ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is his moral character good? — A. AVell, no, sir; he is a sort of 
shackling fellow. 

Q. Do you know any respect in which his character is good at all ? — 
A. I do not think I do, sir. 

Q. Is lie held in any respect in that community ? — A. Ko, sir. 

Q. Do you know the character of Dr. ]\rott ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you known him f — A. I have known Dr. ]Mott since 
18G(). 

Q. Have you been in the habit of canvassing and making s})eecbes 
tlirougii the district for many years ? — A. I'es, sir. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with the people of that district ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Will you state Dr. Mott's general character and the estimate in 
which he is held by the people ? — A. It is as good as any man's in the 
State. 

Q. Has his character suffered by all these slanderous rumors going 
iiround in regard to the internal revenue? — A. Not at all by those who 
know him. 

Q. A witness has stated that in 1872 or 1873, or along there, that he 
acted as ganger and storekeeper at the same time that he acted as 
deputy, and while drawing his salary as deputy he received a percent- 
age as ganger; was that the custom at that time ? — A. Well, in view 
of the fact that in 1871, 1872, and 1873, in that section of the State, it 
was very hard to get men who were competent to fill those places. I 
think in 1872 or 1873 the assistant assessors acted also as gangers. 

Q. Was that permitted by the department? — A. It was, sir. 

Q. Did the department raise no point on their holding both positions? 
— A. They did not raise any point. For instance, the assessor was em- 
ploj'ed part of the month in making assessments, and we paid him for 
the time he acted as assessor, and then we paid him for the time he 
acted as ganger. 

Q. Did you say deputies or assessors ? — A. I said assistant assessors. 

Q. They acted as assessors and storekeepers at the same time? — A. 
Y^es, sir ; and I think the deputy collectors acted in the same capacity. 

Q. During the same time? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that under Mr. Wylie, the predecessor of Dr. Mott ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Has there not been a change since that time in the regulations in 
respect to the ])ay of these gangers and storekeepers, and upon that 
subject generally ? — A. The regulations have been changed a great 
many times and in various points. 

Q. You are not engaged in the revenue service now, are you? — A. 
No, sir ; not since 1873. 

Q. You do not know what the regulations are at the present time; 
you only know what they were at that time? — A. No, sir; these serv- 
ices were rendered as a general thing by the order of the collector. 



224 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Do you know the character of W. M.Walker ? — A. Yes, sir; I 
have known Walker since 1870. 

Q. State what it is? — A. It is good. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman: 

Q. Can yon give me the names of any parties who, under Mr. Wylie^ 
drew double pay 1 — A. I did not say anybody drew double pay. 

Q. What did you say f — A. I said when they were acting in the ca- 
pacity of assistant assessors, and they drew pay as assistants, and 
when not acting as assistant assessors, and as gangers, they drew pay 
as gangers. 1 did not say they drew double pay. 

Q. Yon mean to say, then, under Mr. Wylie, that an officer in one ca- 
pacity would often do the work in another capacity, but only draw pay 
for that capacity in which he did the work"? — A. That is my under- 
standing. 

Q. He did not draw regular monthly pay in the other capacity at th^ 
same time? — A. 'No, sir. 

Q. You do not know any instance of that sort? — A. No, sir. 

Dr. MoTT. Did not your brother act as deputy and gauger at the 
same time ? 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

Dr. MoTT. Of course he drew pay right along ? 

The Witness. He drew pay as gauger and also drew pay as assistant 
assessor. 

Dr. MoTT. He was a deputy collector, was he not. 

The Witness. Yes, sir ; he was a deputy collector. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Then your brother, Euff Henderson, did draw double pay while- 
under you ? — A. He was under Mr. Wylie. 

Q. He was assistant assessor to you? — No, sir; he was deputy col- 
lector; he never had any office under me. 

Q. He did draw double pay? — A. Well, I say this: he drew pay, my 
understanding is, while he was deputy collector for the days he was in 
service as deputy collector, and then when he was in service as ganger- 
he drew pay as gauger. 

Q. Then he was drawing pay in both capacities? — A. ]^ot both on 
the same day. 

Q. Why not ; his pay as deputy collector was by the month ? — A. Yes,. 
sir. 

Q. What work did he do while deputy collector? — A. That is a mat- 
ter which was settled between him and the collector. The collector 
paid him one thousand dollars a year, but frequently he was ordered to 
do gauging. 

Q. Then he got pay for gauging in addition to this one thousand dol- 
lars a year, did he not? — A. Yes, sir; whether there was any deduc- 
tion or not I cannot say. 

Q. Was there any law for such a thing as that ? — A. There was a 
regulation to that effect. 

Q. That they should draw double pay? — A. Ko, sir; I did not say 
that. The regulations ordered, to do the service. 

The Chairman. I will put in evidence sections 1764 and 1765 of the 
Eevised Statutes, as follows: 

Sec. 1764. No allo-wance or compeusation shall be made to any officer or clerk by- 
reason of the discharge of duties which belong to any other officer or clerk in the 
same or any other department; and no allowance or compensation shall be made for- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 225 

any extra services wliatever, which any officer or clerk uiay be required to perform, 
unless expressly authorized l»y law. 

Sec. 17(55. No- officer in any branch of the public service, or any other person whose 
salary, pay, oi- eniolunieuts are lixt^d by law or regulations, shall receive any addi- 
tional ]>ay, extra allowance, or conii)ensation, in any form whatever, for the disburse- 
"•iieiit of ])ublic money, or for any other service or duty whatever, nnless the same la 
antliorized by law, and the api)ropriatiou therefor explicitly states that it is for such 
additional pay, extra allowance, or compensation. 

Mr. Pool. What is the date of that act"? 

The Chairman. The reference in the niarj;in is, "Act of June 20, 1874, 
19th Statute." 

Mr. Pool. The hiw was passed after the time spolten of. 

Tlie Witness. It was done under the act of June 20, 1868. 

Mr. Pool. I su])pose tlie law was passed to break up the regulations 
of the department previous to that time. 

The Witness. The office was governed by the regulations, 1 think. 
Kegulation 5, No. 7, 1876. 

The Clerk. The original act was August 26, 1842, and that act was 
brought forward. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You have given testimony tending to take away the character of 
a feeble, one-armed ex-soldier, Mr. Kestler. You of course, then, can 
have no objection to answering some questions about your own charac- 
ter. I will ask you if your own character has not been considered very 
bad in North Carolina f — A. If you take the newspaper reports, in con- 
sequence of my being a Republican — take what they say — it would be 
so. 

Q. Was there not any cause assigned by the public for calling you a 
man of bad character other than your Republicanism? — A. Not that 1 
know of. 

Q. Were you not accused and openly charged with stealing a mule? 
— A. I was accused, and triumphantly vindicated without a scintilla of 
evidence brought against me. 

Q. I ask you now if you were not accused of that. I am not asking 
if you were guilty of it. — A. So I understood it. 

Q. You were accused of those things '? — A. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Q. I will also ask you if you were not accused of stealing some law 
books belonging to Mr. Kittrell '? — A. I was not. There was a charge 
preferred in the supreme court, made by a man through political pre- 
judice, to the effect that I had taken the books, and after I had thrown 
down the books in the supreme court before Judge Pearson, the very 
books which the charge was made upon, the judge said that the man 
wlio made the charge ought to be unmantled. It was not only that 
charge of stealing, but the charge was that after having stolen the 
books, I had erased the name of Kittrell on them, and written my own 
name in its place, which was false. 

Q. I did not ask you about the falsity of it.— A. When I produced 
the law books in the supreme court, when I was making application to 
be admitted to the bar — the books were "Williams on Executors" — there 
was Kittrell's name on the inside of the book and on the outside of it, 
and my name was not anywhere on them, and the supreme court at 
that session licensed me to practice law, after thus vindicating myself 
from that charge. 

Q. Still those charges were made in the newsi)apers against you"? — 
A. They were made by the Democratic newspapers for political pur 
S. Mis. 116 15 



226 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

poses, in consequence of my adhesion and devotion to the Eepublicaii ; 
party. 

Q. You say you talked with the best men in Salisbury about Mr. Kest- 
ler, and they all said he was a man of bad character for truth. Will 
you give me the names of the people that you talked with ? — A. I did 
not talk to anybody about it. I heard Mr. Blackmar say Mr. Kestler 
was not a man of truth. 

Q. You heard Mr. Blackmar ? — A. And John I. Shaver said it also. 

Q. How long has Mr. Shaver been dead"? — A. He died, I think, in 
1875. That is my recollection ; I am not positive about it. 

Q. Is Mr. Kestler not in business there now with men of respectable 
character '? — A. I do not know who he is in business with. 

Q. Is he not in business with Mr. Blackmar at the present time*? — A. 
Mr. Kestler I 

Q. And Mr. Frercks ? — A. If he is, I do not know it. I understand 
he has a grocery. 

Q. Does that show that he is a man of bad character for truth, be- 
cause he has a grocery % — A. It does not. 

Q. Do you think a grocery keeper can tell the truth? — A. Yes, sir 5 
Mr. Snider has been in the business in Salisbury for many years, and he 
is a good man for truth, a man of good character, recognized by the re- 
spectable citizens of Salisbury as being a gentleman, and of good char- 
acter. So is Mr. Mills, who keeps a grocery. 

Q. You disclaim, then, the idea that a grocery keeper cannot be a 
man of truth"? — A. Of course I do. 

Q. Did you never hear anybody say that Mr. Kestler was a man of 
truth? — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. Were you present yesterday when Mr. Eamsay was sworn ? — A. 
I was not, sir. 

Senator Mitchell. I suppose if Mr. Henderson desires to explain 
anything about this matter, of which he has testified, he can do so ? 

The Chairman. He can do so if he wishes, further. 

The Witness. I will explain further in regard to this question you 
asked me relative to a mule. In 1865 a man by the name of Darr — I 
was an officer in the Freedman's Bureau at that time — had a difficulty 
with one of his negroes. I issued a summons and had him brought be- 
fore me. The negro claimed that he had not been paid for services he 
had rendered to Darr, his former master, who refused to pay him. I 
restrained some corn to pay the negro a reasonable sum for his services. 
Mr. Darr became furious, and afterwards came to Lexington to em- 
ploy a lawyer, so I understood. While at Lexington — he lived eight 
miles from town ; I did not live in Lexington at that time — he stayed 
until after night, and a man by the name of Jeremiah Glover stole Mr. 
Darr's mule that night, and rode it to High Point, arriving with the 
mule the next morning about an hour by sun. He ottered to sell the 
mule to Mr. Jerrold. Jerrold told him he did not wish to buy it, and 
pointed him out to D. M. Henderson, my brother, who was merchandis- 
ing in High Point. He offered him to my brother, and sold him the 
mule for $75 in gold. That was Mr. Darr's testimony in court, that the 
mule was worth $75. Levi E. Johnson, who was clerking in my broth- 
er's store, paid Glover for the mule. D. M. Henderson in a few days 
afterwards drove the mule down into Davidson County, and rode before 
Darr's house. He lived on the public road. One of Mr. Darr's neigh- 
bors saw the mule in my brother's wagon, and informed Mr. Darr^ 
whereupon Darr went to Jligh Point and demanded his property. My 
brother, D. M. Henderson, told him, says he, " I bought this mule, aud 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT 01' NORTH CAROLINA. 227 

paid $75 in ^old for it. If you will swear to the property, and can 
prove it is yours, you can have it." He did so, got his mule and came 
back home. 

The same day there were two more mules stolen from Mr. Yarboro, 
and the eveniuf^" that this mule had been taken from my brother I tele- 
graphed him to look out for the man; that perhaps he might steal more 
property and bring it into town. He carried the two more mules that 
were stolen from Yarboro to High Point. Yarboro followed him. Soon 
after he got into High Point my brother, Ruff Johnson, and Alexander 
Smith arrested him, and when Yarboro got there they had him under 
arrest. I telegraphed to bring (xlover to Lexington. He was brought 
to Lexington, and tried before A. L. Watson, and on admission com- 
mitted to Lexington jail. When court came his trial was removed upou 
afltidavit to Winston. He plead guilty when court came in Winston, 
and was whii)ped at the public whipping-post. This man Darr then 
went before the grand jury of Davidson County, and made a charge 
against me, and that grand jury found a bill upon his evidence. The 
foreman of the grand jury, ILimilton Hargraves, stated it was an out- 
rage, and that the bill should not have been found; that there was no 
evidence that showed I had any comjdicity in the matter. I was just 
nominated for Congress in my district. The State came to trial, ;ind 
Darr made an affidavit that I was so popular in my county that the 
State could not get justice, and therefore the case was removed to Salis- 
bury. 

The State at the coming court was not again ready, and the case was 
removed back to Lexiugton. From there it was renuived to Winston. 
The attorneys for the State, when we pressed for trial, proposed to take 
a nolle pros. My attorney, J. M. McCorkle, under my directions, re- 
fused a nolle pros.; that the case had to be submitted to a jury, and the 
testimony heard. I was asked the question through my attorney if I 
objected to any of the jurors? My attorney, Mr. McCorkle, got up and 
stated to the court that he did not know a man upon the jury and did 
not object to any of them. He demanded of the jury that if there was a 
scintilla of testimony against me I wanted a conviction, or a triumph- 
ant vindication. Whereupon the State failed to i)roduce any evidence 
tending to show any complicity in the matter wluitever, after all the 
witnesses were examined. Darr was marked prosecutor upon the bill, 
by the court, from which he appealed. In volume 64 of the supreme 
court reports of the State of North Carolina will be seeu the decision 
that was rendered, and that the prosecutor Darr paid all the costs, both 
State's and the defendant's and the witnesses. The jury was out about 
one miinite and came in with a verdict of " Not guilty." Right here [ 
will take occasion to state that I was informed by J. V. Summers, wlio 
lives in Charlotte, which I have no idea he will deny, or dare deny, and 
look at me, that there was no evidence against me, but that they thought 
my radical views were such that with the negroes I would rule the whole 
country, and referred also to the speech I made on the 4th of July, 1805, 
and that I was bound to be mashed up in some way, and he was one of 
the jurors. 

By Senator Mitchell : 
Q. Which jury? — A. Of the grand jury that found the bill. He lives 
in Charlotte now. And right there, also, Mr. Sununers, who stated to 
me that there had been no testimony against me, had at that time a 
bill of indictment against him for living in fornication and adultery 
with a negro woman. He went and plead guilty, paid costs, and that 



228 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

is on the records of the court; and I will add here that I do not think 
there is a respectable man in the State, either Democratic or Republi- 
can, who has not sympathized with me and thought I was hardly 
treated — miserably treated. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Is that all the explanation you want to jiut in now about that 
matter?— A. I believe it is. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Was there not an intense feeling of prejudice against the officers 
of the Freedraan's Bureau at that time? — A, Dreadful. 

Q. Were they not persecuted in every possible way that did not make 
the man persecuting auienable to law? — A. They were persecuted in 
every possible and conceivable way that could be done. 

Q. Did not that prejudice against the officers of the Freedman's 
Bureau amount absolutely to a state of wild public excitement? — A. In 
many instances. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. What has the Freedman's Bureau to do with it? — A. I was a 
Freedman's Bureau officer when this mule was stolen by Glover. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You were saying you were prosecuting this man Darr to make 
Mm pay what was due to his former slave at the time this thing oc- 
cured? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He was detained and lost his mule in town ? — A. Not that night. 
He came up to Lexington to employ a lawyer to defend him, and 
that night he came into my office, and stated that his mule was gone. 
The mule had been stolen by this man Glover, who was whipped at 
Winston. 

Q. You say you were nominated for Congress ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q, Were you denounced upon the stump for this matter ? — A. Was 
I denounced ? 

Q. Yes, sir ; by your opponents ? — A. No, sir ; not by my opponents, 
but in the community by the bitter element of the Democratic party. 
They denounced me everywhere. 

Q. Have you continued to be denounced for this matter ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; hounded down and persecuted dreadfully for years and years. I 
have seen Governor Vance check it on one occasion in Salisbury. 

Q. Check the denunciations against you? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that was after you had been acquitted ? — A. After I had 
been acquitted 

Q. Begarding these books, what was the date of that ? — A. 1866 or 
1867, I think. 

Q. And a year or two afterwards that was brought up against you 
before the supreme court judges? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who examined the candidates for license at that time? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Aiid you produced the books in court? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And b;y explanation to the court showed the charge was false? — 
A. Yes, sir ; showed the charge was false from the fact that Mr. Kit- 
trell, whom I studied law under, had studied law under Judge Pearson, 
and Judge Pearson knew his handwriting, and there in the volume 
which I bibught into court was Kittrell's name on the inside and out- 
side, and Judge Pearson remarked, "This is all right. There has not 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 229 

been a Hy-leaf taken. Every tiv-leaf is lieie." And my name don't ap- 
pear anywhere in the books, but Kittrell's name does. 

Q. Judge Pearson was eliief justice at that time ? — A. He was chief 
justice. 

Q. Did he not say that the man who brought that charge ought to be 
rei)rimanded '? — A. That he ought to be unfrocked. 

Q. Who brought that charge ? — A. I don't know. 

Q. Wliat do you mean by being unfrocked ? — A. His license taken 
from him. 

Adjourned until 10 a. m. Monday, July 10, 1882. 



Washington, D. C, Jtdy 10, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. m. 

William F. Henderson, was allowed to file, as a part" of his testi- 
mony, the following report of case and decision of the supreme court 
of the State of Korth Carolina (volume 03, page 516, IS". 0. Eeports) : 

State v. Henry 0. Darr. 

The prosecutor upon au indicrmeiit for stealing a ninle,, fonnil at fall term 1867, and 
tried at spring- term 1869, may upon proper certiticate by the .judge below be 
ordered by him to pay the costs of the case. 

State V. Lnmbrick, 1 Car., L. E., 543, and State v. Lupton, atthis term, 

cited and ap])roved. 

Order to pay costs made by Cloud, J., at spring term 1869 of the 
superior court of Forsyth. 

The defendant was indorsed as prosecutor on a bill of indictment 
for larceny of a mule, found at fall term 1867. On the trial there was 
a verdict of "not guilty," and the prisoner was discharged. After- 
ward his honor, the judge presiding, having certified that there was not 
reasonable ground for the prosecution, and that it was not required by 
the public interest, but was frivolous and malicious, on motion, it was 
ordered that the prosecutor, Henry C. Darr, pay all costs of the cause, 
to be taxed by the clerk, including all the witnesses sworn for the de- 
fendants, as the judge certified that all of them were necessary wit- 
nesses. 

From this order Darr appealed. 

Phillips & Merrimon, for the api)ellant. 

Attorney- Genera /, contra. 

Eeade, J. The oft'ence charged, larceny, was one "of an inferior na- 
ture" within the meaning of the statute, Eev. Code, ch. 35, sec. 37, 
which authorizes the court to make the prosecutor paj^ the costs wliere 
the defendant is acquitted, and the prosecution " ap]iears to be frivolous 
or malicious."' (State v. Lnmbrick, 1 Car., L. E., 543.) 

It appeared to his honor tliat "tliere was not reasonable ground for 
the prosecution, and that it was not required by the public interest, 
and was 'frivolous and malicious.'" If, then, the case were governed 
by the law as it stood when the oft'ence was charged to have been com- 
mitted, or when the indictment was found, as was contended for by 
the prosecutor, he miglit properly be made to pay the costs. But the 



230 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

case falls under the C. C. P., § 560, which was iu force at the time of 
the trial and which provides that in any criminal action, for whatever 
grade of offence, the prosecutor, if one is marked on the bill, may be 
ordered to pay costs, ^' when the judge shall certify that there was not 
reasonable ground for the prosecution, and that it was not required by 
the public interest." (State v. Lumpton, at this term.) It was therefore 
proper in this case to make the defendant, who was the prosecutor in 
the case in which the order was made, pay the costs. There was no 
error iu the judgement appealed from. 

This will be certified, &c. 

Per Curiam. Judgement affirmed. 

The following witness was called in behalf of Dr. Mott. 

W. J. CoiTE, sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Statesville, North Caro- 
lina. 

Q. What is your occupation ? — A. I am deputy collector of internal 
revenue. 

Q. How long have you been in the revenue service ? — A. As deputy 
collector since March, 1875. Previous to that time as a clerk in the 
Internal Eeveuue Bureau for three or four years in this city. 

Q. You mean in the Commissioner's office ? — A. The Commissioner's 
office ; yes, sir. 

Q. Are you generally occupied around the office of the collector in 
Statesville ? — A. Altogether. 

Q. I want you to state iu the first place whether all the money that 
is collected is sent here, and how the expenses are paid afterwards % — 
A. All the money that is collected is sent to Washington through the 
public depository — the Ealeigh N^atioual Bank^and the expenses are 
paid by check sent from the Commissioner's office to the collector. The 
two things are totally different. 

Q. Those checks are sent upon the basis of an allowance made at the 
beginning of the fiscal year ? — A. Yes, sir ; and upon the request of the 
collector. 

Q. For the current month an estimate is made by him of what will 
be needed to pay the oificers on duty, based upon the allowance by the 
Commissioner. But that request is based upon an allowance that is 
made by the bureau at the beginning of the fiscal year I — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It has been char<;ed in the newspapers, and otherwise, that the 
revenue oiflcers of the sixth district huvebeen in the habit of collecting 
revenue and keeping as much as they wanted themselves, and sending 
as much as they pleased to the Government of the United States "? — A. 
That is not so, and could not be so, as it is contrary to law. 

Q. Fi'om your statement, now that could not be done to the amount 
of a single dollar ? — A. J^o, sir ; not to the amount of a single cent. 

Q. In the year 1880 there was a considerable increase in the expenses 
of the district, charged to be an increase of $65,000, I think. I saw it 
somewheres, and I would be glad if you would explain to the commit- 
tee, in your own way, how that occurred, and for what purpose, and all 
about it ? — A. It was occasioned by the increase of the number of small 
distilleries in the district. There had been a large number of illicit dis- 
tilleries there, and a great many cases on the dockets of the United 
States courts ; and the Commissioner of Internal Eeveuue and the col- 
lector, together with the legal officers, agreed to amnesty these illegal 
distillers, provided they put up legal ones. The result was the number 
of distilleries increased very largel5^ I have a memorandum here 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 231 

Q. Refresh your meniory by your nieiiioraiKlniii. — A. It increased the 
number from 51) to 198; then the subsequent year to 237 ; after that to 
326. Each of these were small distilleries running". 

Q. What ti?ne does that embrace I — A. Those were all subsequent 
years ; one year after the other— 1878, 1879, 1880, and 1881. 

Q. I am talking about the year 1880. I want to account for the in- 
crease in that particular year. — A. It was occasioned by the same 
cause ; it increased to 237 that year. The distilleries were running 
then. A great many w^ere allowed to run at a capacity of three bush- 
els, or three and a half bushels, per day, and the production was not 
over two gallons to the bushel, making an income of $7.20 per day. 
From that the expense of the storekeepers ($3 a day) had to be paid. 
That is the reason why the increase of ex})enses was i^roportionately 
larger than the increase in receipts. In 1879, 198 distilleries were oper- 
ating, and the store-keepers were paid ninety-eight thousand odd dol- 
lars. In 1880, 237 w^ere running, and the store-keepers were paid one 
hundred and sixty-cnie thousand odd dollars. 

Q. That made the $05,000 increase"?— A. Yes, sir; but the increase 
in collections was proportionately greater — that is, in the income to the 
government — although more was paid out apparently for the pay of 
store-keepers. In the year 1879 $336,000 was collected, and in 1880 
$457,000. 

Q. From what you say, then, the government does not lose money 
by the increase in the number of the distilleries, but rather makes 
money by the f)peration ? — A. The government has made money; yes, 
sir. 

Q. Do you know whether Dr. Mott, previous to that time, had ex- 
erted all the diligence in his power to break up these illicit distilleries 
thnmgh his district "? — A. I know he had. 

Q. A great many were broken up ? — A. A great many were broken 
up. 

Q. But a great many still continued ? — A. But it was not entirely 
suppressed. 

Q. By this operation they became legal distilleries, and increased in 
number? — A. To a certain extent. 

Q. You have heard a great deal about store-keepers dividing their 
pay with distillers; the rumors as to such ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you ever known an instance of that at all while in office'? — 
A. I have never known an instance. I know the collector endeavored 
to find an instance and to secure evidence which would warrant him in 
proceeding either against the distiller or store-keeper who so divided, 
but he was unable to do so. It therefore resolves itself into a mere 
rumor, so far as the office is concerned. 

Q. Have you ever been able to detect any single individual at it ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. I understood you to say just now that the expenses were paid in 
the district by checks sent from here ; that is, the collector was not al- 
lowed to pay for salaries at all from his collections? — A. None what- 
ever. 

Q. There is no instance whatever in which he can pay from collec- 
tions ? — A. Not a cent. 

Q. How many counties are there in that district ? — A. Thirty-four. 

Q. Are they large ccmnties"? — A. Yes, sir; very large. The area 
from one end of the district — from east to west — is about four hundred 
miles, I should think. 



232 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. How wide is it? — A. It is probably two hundred and fifty tO' 
three hundred miles wide from north to south in its widest part. 

Q. Does that embrace the mountain region of North Carolina 1 — A.. 
Mostly all mountain. 

Q. Both the Blue Eidge and Alleghany Mountains ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is Cherokee in that district ? — A. Cherokee is in the district, the 
uttermost western end, and Union County is the uttermost eastern 
limit. 

Q. About how far this side of the Blue Eidge does it commence *? — 
A. Salisbury, I think, is one hundred and ten miles from Asheville, and 
I think Asheville is about one hundred miles this side of the Blue 
Eidge. 

Q. This embraces the Piedmont country, then the Blue Eidge range 
of country between there and the AUeghanies, and runs into the Al- 
leghany Mountains on the Tennessee line? — A. All the way to th& 
Tennessee line. 

Q. Is it a very difficult district to get entrance to in the various 
localities ? — A. Yes, sir; very few facilities, except on horseback. 

Q. The roads are bad ? — A. The mountain roads are very bad, and 
the distilleries are mostly located in those mountains. 

Q. Were there more violations of law five, six, or seven years aga 
than there are now in that district ; has there been any improvement ? — 
A. I think there were more. In fact I know there were. The dockets 
of the (iourt and the records of the office x^rove there were more, 

Q. There has been a general improvement in that district, has 
there ■? — A. A very decided improvement. 

Q. You know the character of the officers un^er Dr. Mott — I mean 
his subordinates — can you state whether the character of those sub- 
ordinates is good, bad, or what? — A. Generally very good. The doctor, 
had a system of making appointments that would warrant the char- 
acter of the men, especially if he did not know them, by requiring from 
each one not only an application for the office, but an indorsement 
from the citizens and well-known people of the neighborhood, of his 
acquaintance, and especially if he did not know them personally, he 
got a guarantee of their character, and if he found them out at any 
time to be unworthy, either by character or habits, the invariable rule 
was to dismiss them. 

Q. Did he allow them to drink? — -A. He issued an order in 1876 
against drinking, warning any man who drank that he would dismiss 
Mm, and he has kept the order in force ever since, so far as I know — 
so far as reports have been made to me. 

Q. You were a good Avhile employed in the Internal Eevenue Bu- 
reau in Washington ? — A. I was for about three years. 

Q. And gained a great deal of experience in the working of the rev- 
enue system in other districts of the United States by observation ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you were employed down there as Dr. Mott's chief deputy 
in 1875, and have been there ever since ? — A. I Avas his deputy in 1875^ 
and his chief deputy at a subsequent date up to the time when he re- 
signed. 

Q. Where is your native place ? — A. l^ew York City. 

Q. You have explained the increase of 1880. Was it not charged in 
the newsj^apers and upon the stump in 1880, and since that time has 
it not been persistently charged, even up to the institution of this com- 
mittee, that that increase of $65,000 for expenses was used for politi- 
cal purposes ? — A. I have heard it charged, and saw a statement ta 
that effect in the press. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 233 

Q. Did you hear an investigation tlireatened into the matter in the 
State — into the use of that .${)r),()UO tor political purposes 1 — A. I have 
heard that, and have seen it in the papers to that effect, that an in- 
vestigation was to be made ; yes, sir. 

Q. Was to be ma-de by Con<>ress? — A. By Congress ; yes, sir. And 
I have seen the resolntions introduced, not oidy in the House, but in 
the Senate, to that effect. 

Q. And you say tlun^e was not a word of truth in it ; nor was it pos- 
sible for anything of that kind to occur under the revenue law and the 
regulations f — A. You probably refer to the statement that the money 
was paid from the collections ; there is no truth in that statement, 
whatever, and it is impossible for any truth to be in that statement. 

Q. How did the $(>5,(M)0 increase come to be incurred ? — A. Through 
the increase of the distilleries and the consequent increase in the num- 
ber of store-keepers at these distilleries. 

Q. But it had no connection whatever with political purposes in any 
shape or form? — A. None whatever, so far as 1 could judge. 

Q. I wish you would explain what is the duty of a general store- 
keeper as distinguished from a store-keeper and ganger? — A. 'J'he duty 
of a general storedceeper is to take charge of suspended distilleries 
when there is less than 2,00i» gallons in each warehouse, respectively. 

Q. And the appointment is made for the purpose of saving to the 
governnuMit the per diem expense of a regular store-keeper at that dis- 
tillery when under suspension ? — A. The general store-keeper has some- 
times a large number — from three to twenty distillery warehouses, each 
containing less than 2,000 gallons of whisky. He is paid $4 a day for 
the general charge, and if a store-keeper was put at each of these dis- 
tilleries he would be paid $'S a day at each one. The government 
therefore saves the difference in the number of wareho\ises taken up 
by him. 

Q. Is the collector's district divided up in divisions ? — A. So far as 
the divisions of general store-keepers are concerned it is. At first there 
were three employed; as the distilleries grew the number was in- 
creased ; the Commissioner appointed two more, and as they still be- 
came more numerous, and suspended at times, and the duties became 
more onerous, two more were appointed, until now seven are acting in 
that capacity. 

Q. Mr. Drake, at Statesville, is one of them ? — A. Yes, sir, 

Q. How long has he been a general store-keeper? — A. About four or 
five years. I am unable to say definitely without the record before me. 

Q. Some intimations have been made in the investigation that he has 
not attended to his duties properly. Will you state whether he lias or 
not? — A. Yes; so far as I am a judge, he has attended to his duty prop- 
erly and promptly. 

Q. Y"ou are in a position to know whether he does discharge his du- 
ties or not ? — A. I think so. 

Q. He lives in Statesville, where you reside? — A. Yes, sir ; States- 
ville. That statement probably arose from the fact where a general 
store-keeper has from ten to a dozen or fifteen warehouses in his charge, 
and two men twenty miles apart desire to tax-pay or withdraw whisky 
on the same day; the general st()re-keei)er is only able to go to one of 
them, and it has been in some cases the custom to appoint or delegate 
his duties to another qualified or sworn store-keeper, in order to satisfy 
or accommodate the tax-payer. I know no other way in which Mr. 
Drake did not perform his duty except that. 

Q. It was impossible for him to go to two distilleries on the same day 
twenty miles ai)art? — A. Physically impossible. 



234 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

Q. It was uot only a convenience to tlie tax-payer for him to get an 
assistant to lieip liim in a case, of that kind, but was it not to the tax- 
jjayer's interest in a business way, as otherwise he might lose a sale, or 
something of that sort*? — A. I think that is very probable of a party 
selling merchandise should he not deliver it on time according to agree- 
ment, and was delayed in it by the operation of the government officer. 
He would probably blame the office for not attending to the business 
sooner. 

Q. Was there any impropriety at all, in your judgment, in Mr. Drake 
doing that? — A. I don't think there was, especially as his duty was' 
performed by another sworn and bonded officer of the United States, 
without extra expense to the United States. 

Q. Was it not the wish of the collector and his instructions that these 
distillers should be accommodated in every reasonable way *? — A. He 
has always endeavored to accommodate them, and so expressed his wish 
that th<'y should be in every reasonable and legal way. 

Q. And such practices as that you mention of Mr. Drake sending on 
these occasions some one in his place was for the accommodation and 
interest of the tax-payers °? — A. Solely. 

Q. Is Mr. Drake a man of character ? — A. Of the very highest, sir. 

Q. From what you learned in the Internal Revenue Bureau at Wash- 
ington, from observation or otherwise, and from what you have learned 
from your experience down there in the sixth district in regard to special 
agents sent out to make investigations and reports, I wish you to state 
whether it is not the usual custom and practice with these special agents 
to make loose and ill-considered reports. — A. I would not like to say it 
is their practice. I know very many cases in which they have done so. 

Q. Given common rumors? — A. Common rumors; yes, sir; without 
foundation and fact. 

Q. Do you know instances in which they would report a mere flying 
rumor without investigating it, or without what you would call an ade- 
quate investigation? — A. Yes, sir; I know several. 

Q. Do you know an instance where, upon investigation, it turned out 
to be nothing ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. These special agents have a sort of pride in making voluminous 
and high-sounding reports, do they not? — A. Speaking for them, I am 
not able to say. I should judge so, though, from the nature of some of 
the reports emanating from them. 

Q. From the sixth district? — A. Yes, sir; very recently. I have 
known of instances where their reports were made, and contained innu- 
endo, and have occasioned a great deal of trouble in consequence of 
that, without any foundation in fact. I have discovered that in mj 
own case. 

Q. From your observation and experience in this matter, if you saw 
in the department a report of a special agent in regard to any matter 
in the district, where they were sent to investigate it, would you give 
much credence or have much confidence in it? — A. In the agent's 
re])ort ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. It would depend greatly upon the agent who made 
the report. The majority of those I have become acquainted with since 
my official duties in the sixth district of IsTorth Carolina commenced I 
would uot give much credence to. 

Q. They draw upon their imaginations ? — A. To a great extent, and 
from hearsay. 

Q. And enlarge even upon the riimors sometimes? — A. I have known 
•of such cases. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOKTH CAROLINA. 285 

Q. They iiui^iiify the re])orts and the iuiportaiice of the work they 
have done ? — A, Their object is to make a bi^' report. Probably that 
is one reason why tliey do it. 

Q. The office of a store-keeper and ganger is a very important office in 
The collection of revenue t — A. Yes, sir, and faithiul officers are very 
important to be had. 

Q. You fonnd a great many distillers in that district ignorant men 
— tlie great body of them are ignorant men, and not acquainted with 
business ? — A. The majority of the distillers are so. 

Q. The store-keei»ers are a good deal of ser\'ice to them, helping them 
to make out their accounts, an<l showing them how to keep their busi- 
ness in official shape ? — A. Yes, sir; I think they do, to a great extent, 
try to keep them straight. 

Q. Is it not a good deal of an advantage to a distiller to have a 
store-keeper of such a cai>acity ? — A. Of intelligence, yes, sir. 

Q. Of capacity ? — A. Yes, sir, because he is able to keep the accounts 
straight, reports, &c., and save him from what otherwise would occur, 
iissessmeuts for spirits not produced and material nsed in excess. 

Q. Js it not to the interest of the government to enable the distiller 
to ha\ e an intelligent store-keeper ? — A. Always considered in the 
interests of the government that he shall have an intelligent and 
proi)er man. 

Q. You have seen the assignment of store-keepers in that district, 
and are conversant with the reasons why they were sent, one to one 
place and one to another, are you not ? Do you know that these dis- 
tillers sometimes have prejudices against certain store-keepers? — A. 
1 know they have, because such reports ^'ery often are made by a dis- 
tiller to the'collector's office; that he had a personal feeling or prejudice 
against such a man ; could not operate with him ; could not work har- 
moniously with him. 

Q. And you know, in addition, that it is a very common thiug for 
distillers to ask for competent men to help at such distilleries in making 
oui their accounts, &c.? — A. It is a frequent request at the office that 
such a man should be sent to them. 

Q. Has Dr. Mott given that matter his careful attention! — A. 
Always did, so far as I know. Always endeavored to satisfy the tax- 
}>ayers in every way and shape as he could witliout i)rcjudiciug the 
interests of the government by putting men there that he would be 
satisfied would not be in colhisiou with the distiller ; and he endeav- 
ored to stop all collusion ; where he suspected it to be the case he 
would take a store-keeper from that place. 

Q. Where there was any report or suspicion of collusion? — A. 
Wherever he suspected it, thougli he had no positive evidence. 

Q. And where he had none of these suspicions or no reports txbout a 
store-keeper, he endeavored to suit — when he could do so consistent 
with the public service — the wishes and conveniences of the distill- 
ers ? — A. Always ; yes, sir. 

Q. It was common, then, for the distillers to ask for store -keepers 
that they tliought would be of service to them in looking after affairs, 
their accounts, and helping- them about the distilleries ? — A. Y"es, sir. 

Q. Did it come to be a feeling among the distillers that it was part 
of the duty of a store-keeper to hel}) them in this way ? — A. They seemed 
to have that idea — that the government paid a store-keeper to help them 
and keep them straight. 

Q. Did they come and complain sometimes that the store-keepers 
would not give them that assistance, and ask for their removal on that 



236 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE JN 

account? — A. I have heard one or two complaints of that nature, l)ut 
not generally. 

Q. When they asked for a change of store-keepers, as they sometimes 
did, and asked for particular store-keepers, was that the ground upon 
which thej^ put their request! — A. Either that or personal dislike to the 
store-keeper, or something of that nature — it could be termed of that 
nature ; they looked at it in that way. 

Q. Now, generally, since you have been in that office, I want to ask 
you whether you know of any instance of official misconduct on the 
part of Dr. Mott ? — A. I know of none. 

Q. In his endeavoring to accommodate these distillers in the assign- 
ment of store-keepers, and in the appointment of his subordinate offi- 
cers, or in auy way, have you ever seen him iniiueuced, or appear to 
be influenced, in your judgment, by other than correct and upright 
motives for the interests of the service "? — A. I know of no case that I 
considered he was actuated b^' any other motives whatever. 

Q. Has he manifested solicitude and care in the selection of his offi- 
cers? — A. He always appeared to give it his ])ersonal attention, and 
looked out for officers that would best preserve the interests of the 
service and perform their duties, and he has also given instructions to 
his officers that the interests of the tax-payers should be looked after, 
and that they should be kept straight, ratlser than oppressed. 

Q. It appeared, then, to be his wish to make the service as po]>ular 
as he could, consistent with the interests of the government? — A. That 
has been his express desire. 1 have heard him so express himself re- 
peatedly. 

Q. Has he succeeded? — A. I think he has, sir. It would opi)car so 
from events. 

Q. In improving the state of public feeling in regard to the service 
generally? — A. There is a better feeling now than six years ago, when 
I went there. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q. When did you take charge as chief deputy, or in any ca])acity 
as deputy ? — A. I was at the office of Dr. Mott as deputy collector in 
March, 1875 or 1876 ; I do not exactly remember which; I will say 1875. 

Q. You say that the office expenses are not paid out of the moneys 
collected by the office ? — A. I do, sir. 

Q. That this is separate and allowed by the department, and checked 
upon entirely separate from the collections. — A. I do, sir ; the collec- 
tions are sent to the department, and the department sends a separate 
check for the office expenses. 

Q. How was that paid — your own salary, for instance, or any other 
deputy or ganger ; how was that paid to him ? — A. The gangers are paid 
differently from the other officers, but the store-keepers' and deputies' 
salaries are paid by check upon the public depository, which is the 
Ealeigh National Bank. 

Q. Why is that; why cannot the collector just pay out of the money 
collected, if he saw proper? — A. Because it is contrary to the law and 
regulations. 

Q. And that check is a voucher for the discharge of the debt against 
the government ? — A. No, sir ; the check is no voucher whatever. 

Q. Are these checks preserved ? — A. I i>resume so. 

Q. Are they tiled here — not sent here ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where jirethey preserved ?— A. At Ealei| h ; they are the private 
property of the collector, and if he desires, it is the same as any other 



TIIH SIXTH DlSTlUCr OK NORTH CAIiOLlNA. 237 

IHMSon's iniviito iUMJomit. Ilocan witlidniw liis own cliccks if lio so de- 
sires. 

Q. lie would nMiuire to check, then, for liis oiVice expenses f — A. On 
the tU'iKKsitory. 

Q. llow hnij;- has that been the eiistoin ? — A. Ever since I have known 
the revenne hiw. 

[^ Q.. r>ack as far iis 1S7."') ? — A. In tinit district I ciinnot si»eak i)re- 
vions to ISTf) — what was done previons to tiiattinie. 

Q. I understood thaty()nha<l an expeiienceintho revennes department 
before you went there. — A. In the dep:irlnu;nt here. 

Q. You cannot tell whether th;it custom was in existence inlST^J? — 
A. No, sir; for the rensonthat theCJoniinissioner of Internal Ivevenue can 
give permission tothecollectorto keeiHlisbursinj*' funds in his possession, 
iiml check upon them at his private bank if he so desires; but since 1 have 
been in the district the disl)ursing funds and vouchers have beeu kept 
in the ]>ublic depository. 

(,>. When did this operation of allowing small distilleries to go into 
^tfeet — when did that begin ? — A. I think the amnesty was extended 
at the NoviMnber term of court 1871), if 1 am not mistaken — either No- 
vember, 1S7!), or April, ISSO. 

Q. And you say that that increased the number of stills, and conse- 
quently increased the nund)er of storekee])ers to e;u;h still, and that 
accoutits tor the increase in the (iost of the collection of revenue in 
that district? — A. 1 wonld not j)ut it as an increase m the cost of col- 
le(;tion, but as an increase in the cost of the expenses of the district. 
Q. Is that not the sanu'. thing '! — A. It might be ternu'd so. 
Q. That is what I mean ; that accounts for the increased expenses 
of the district, and that began in the fall of 1871), or the spring of 1880? 
— A. 1 think the fall — the Novend)er term of 1871), at the time of the 
amnesty. 

Q. Who was that amnesty proclaimed by ? — A. By the judge of the 
court. 

Q. Had the departnuMit there anything to do with it? — A. Yes, sir, 
the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. 

Q. He authorized tlie judge '^ — A. Yes, sir, and the collector and 
other ollicials (;onsnlted about it, and deemed it best; and also an- 
other reason for tlu) increase was the decision of the (Commissioner of 
Internal lievenue reducing the capacity of the stills of these little dis- 
tilleries. 

i}.. I understood that that was the same thing. — A. They had In^en 
held to six bushels i)er day. It was a current statement there that a 
poor man conld not run. That also was an induc(;ment by the collec- 
tor aiul commissioner, upon consultation, to allow them to run at smaller 
capacity, which was tixed at about three or three and a half bushels 
per day. 

Q. That capa(!ity enabled the men who were blockading and taking 
all the risks to come in and run small distilleries, and (piit violating 
the law? — A. I think it was a very great induiicment to them ; yes, sir. 
Q. What did the most of these small (listilleri(vs sell whisky at i? — 
A. Heally 1 don't know, 1 never bought any of them, and would oidy 
know from hearsay, ex<;ept the current i)rice of whisky, which was 
fluctuating all the while. 

Q. In that couidry it has been as low down as $1,10 per gallon '? — A. 
It has been as low as Do cents a. gallon. 

()„ Do you know of any case where it was cliarge<l that a. store- 
keei)er divided his pay with the distiller? — A. I know of no case where 



238 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

proof could be obtained. The collector .lias had cases reported where 
it was charged, but upon investigation by him of these officers it was 
denied positively that any division was made between them. 

Q. It was often reported to the office ? — A. It has been reported ; 
yes, sir. 

Q. Aud as nobody knew it but the store-keeper and distiller, they 
could not prove it ? — A. We were unable to get any proof of it what- 
ever. 

Q. If at one of these small distilleries of three and a half or four 
bushels capacity, the store keeper divided his pay with the distiller, 
was it not a better business than blockading ? Would the distiller not 
make more money at it ? — A. If the store-keeper divided his pay, I 
should think the distiller would probably make more. 

Q. Was there not many instances reported to the office in whicii the 
store-keeper paid very high board to the distiller ? — A. Yes, sir ; and 
investigated. 

Q. That was proven to be so f — A. In every case it was invariably 
denied. 

Q. But in some cases it was proven"? — A. Very seldom. 

Q. Was it not proven in the case of Mr= Cooper, a brother of the col- 
lector, that Mr. Templeton had paid him $30 a month for board ? — A. 
I never heard that, sir. 

Q. It seems to have been reported to the office by one of the revenue 
agents that it was so ? — A. It is one of those cases of hearsay, prob- 
ably. 

Q. You don't know that Mr. Templeton swore that he paid that on 
the stand ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You stated that the charge that this increase in the expenses of 
the office was for political purposes was untrue ; did you not misstate •, 
that was not the charge — not that the increased expenses were for po- 
litical purposes, but the increase in the number of officers occasioned 
an assessment upon officers for political purposes, which made it much 
larger? — A. I stated, I think, if I understood the question, if the in- 
crease of distilleries was not an increase of distilleries, as charged, for 
political purposes, and replied, so far as I knew, that it was not for po 
litical purposes ; that such a charge as that was untrue. 

Q. That the increase of stills A. 'Jf stills and store-keepers. 

Q. I ask you if the charge as made by the Democratic party down 
there, is not true — that the increase in the number of officers and as- 
sessments levied upon them was for political purposes ? — A. I don't 
remember that that charge was made. I remember a charge having 
been made that the number of officers was increased for political pur- 
poses, and I stated such a statement as that was untrue ; that the num- 
ber of officers was not increased for political pur]30ses. I don't think 
that any assessment for political purposes was in view in any manner,, 
shape, or form, when the number of clistilleries was increased. In fact, 
it could not have been under the circumstances. 

Q. As chief deputy, and being engaged in the office at the time, you 
can tell what the political assessment amounted to in 1880? — A. I can- 
not ; I never kept any record. 

Q. Who did ? — A. I don't think that anybody kept any record of 
that. I could estimate about how much was given by the various offi- 
cers for political purposes. 

Q. During the campaign of 1880 ? — A. Yes, sir ; so far as I can judge. 

Q. What is your estimate ? — A. My estimate is that there was about 
$8,000 given. I have estimated it variously at from six to eight thou- 



THE .SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 23^ 

sand dollars. A great many officers who were supposed to be able to 
pay did not, and luive not to this day — quite a number; and I esti- 
mated that if about one hundred of them had paid, and ])aid in sums of 
from fifty to one hundred and four and to one huiulred and eight dollars, 
probably it would be about $75.00 on the average, and in that way I 
came to my conclusion that there was about seventy-iive hundred to 
eight thousaiul dollars. 

Q. Do you know how much it was in the previous campaign ?— A.. 
i^o, sir. 

Q. In 187C ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. It was not so much as that in 1876? — A. I do not know, sir; 
probably they contributed as much in proportion to their means. 

Q. If the officers contributed such a per cent, of their salary, the 
more officers contributing, the larger the amount would be ? — A. If 
they had all contributed. The officers were very liberal in their con- 
tributions. I know that, and those who had the political welfare of the 
party or State at heart would contribute, as I said, very freely, very 
willingly, and without any })ressure. 

Q. Who kept the record of how much was collected ? — A. I do not 
know, sir, that any record was kept except by the committee who re- 
ceived it. 

Q. Who received the money at your office ? — A. Nobody received 
the money at our office. ;~*-t?r:^ 

Q. A great many have sworn here that they paid their checks or 
gave their checks into the office to you, or to Dr. Mott ? — A. Never to 
me, but they were paid to Dr. Mott as chairman of the executive 
committee, as I understood — this I do not know of my own knowledge — 
and were sent by him to the committee. 

Q. Now, somebody would necessarily^ keep a record of what was 
received ? — A. If anybody did, I presume Dr. Mott has done so. 

Q. You did not, at all events ? — A. I did not. I at one time drew off 
a memorandum of those who had paid up to a certain date, as a guide 
for the collector, for that pur])ose. 

Q. Why as a guide ; how so ? — A. So as to know who i^aid and who 
had not. 

Q. So as not to call on any who had paid ? — A. I presume so, up to 
that time. 1 handed it to him. I never kept a record since ; in fact I 
kept no record previous to that time. 

Q. Do you know who the money was jjaid to, and for what purpose ? 
— A. It was i)aid for political purposes, so far as I know, and that onh' 
from hearsay — I may say, paid to Dr. Mott as chairman of the execu- 
tive committee, and by him to the committee. 

Q. What committee f — A. The Eepublican State executive com- 
mittee. 

Q. Do you know whether any newspapers were reci])ients of part of 
this money"? — A. Not of my own knowledge — no, sir; could not swear 
to it. 

Q. Have you heard so ? — A. Not of my own knowledge ; cannot swear 
to it ; have not heard that newspapers have been recipients of any por- 
tion of this money, but I should presume they would receive some por- 
tion for campaign expenses in ])roper form — what was due them. 

Q. Do you know anything of a circular letter addressed at any time 
to the officers inquiring as to their politics ? — A. 1 do, sir. 

Q. What was it? — A. So far as I remember, the Commissioner of In- 
ternal Revenue desired to know the politics of every officer in the dis- 
trict, and requested the collector to ascertain it. The circular was 
addressed to each officer throughout the district, I believe. 



240 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EE VENUE IN 

Q. When was that"? — A. I am unable to state the date. 

Q. What year? — A. I am unable to state the date. I did not bear 
that in my memory at all, and simply know that such a printed circular 
was sent to each officer at the request of the Commissioner of Internal 
Eeveuiae for some purpose of his own. 

Q. Could you furnish me a copy of that circular ?— A. No, sir ; I • 
never kept one ; In fact I never saw anything but the proof of it. It was 
handed to the messenger to address it to the different officers. 

Q. That was done at the instance of the Commissioner of Internal 
Ee venue ! — A. I am very positive it was, for the simple reason that 
some replies were of such a nature as seemed to indicate that the Com- 
missioner was asking too much of them. 

Q. You spoke of the duties of a general store-keeper; whose duty is 
it to carry the key of a distillery which had suspended, if there were 
less than'2,000 gallons in the warehouse ? — A. It was the duty of the 
general store-keeper to have charge of it, and the keys and books were 
left in his office or in the main office. 

Q, The collector's office? — A. Yes, sir; he was responsible for them. 

Q. You say Mr. Drake had been in office four or five years ? — A. About 
four or five years. 

Q. I will ask you if he has not been there over ten years'? — A. I dp 
not think he was a store-keeper when I Avent there in 1875. I know he 
was not. 

Q. Was he a store-keeper in 1876 1 — A. Without having my record, I 
am unable to swear positively, but think he was not. 

Q. We have a record here that he was a store-keeper from the 1st of 
January, 1876, up. — A. Probably correct; I know he was not a store- 
keeper when I went there in 1875. He was appointed subsequent to 
that time, but the date I am unable to state. 

Q. Do you recollect when Mr. Daniels's distillery was seized 1 — A. I do. 

Q. Who had the keys of that distillery at that time? — A. That is a 
question which might be answered in several ways. Daniels's main 
distillery was operating and the store-keeper on duty at his main distil- 
lery had the keys of that distillery. 

Q. Who had the keys of the one that was suspended 1 — A. Freeze's 
distillery you refer to ? 

Q. Yes, sir, Freeze's ? — A. I have ascertained that Mr. Bogle had 
those keys, or got them from the office, and they got into the possession 
ot Mr. Daniels through him. 

Q. Through him? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Whose district as general store-keeper was that distillery in 1 — 
A. I think it was in Mr. Sharpe's. 

Q. Which Sharpe ?— A. G. W. I think, if it was in north Iredell. If 
so, it was in Sharpe's district. 

Q. It was within a mile and a half of the town of Statesville, was it 
not ? — A. Yes, sir ; but a division was made in the county of Iredell 
north and south of the railroad. 

Q. At all events Mr. Sharpe did not have the key? — A. No, sir. 

Q, He was the general store-keeper and it was not in your office? — 
A. No, sir; not at the time of the seizure, that is according to the records 
of the clerk who had charge of those keys, informs pie. 

Q. Where were you at the time that distillery was seized ? — A. The 
Fieeze's distillery ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I was in Statesville. 

Q. McMcLeer says in his report that you could not be found ?— A. 
He did not look for me very hard, because I was not out of Statesville. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 241 

McLeer's report is the report I liave referred to ; I have only seen it 
in the past two weeks, and in it there is a good deal of innuendo and 
very little positive fact. 

Q. These special agents are not very reliable anyhow, you think, as 
to their reports "? — A. Not if they make them all like McLeer. 

Q. You said to Mr. Pool that they were very unreliable, giving ru- 
mors, &c. f — A. Yes, sir ; that has been the case <lown in the district 
for the last four or six months; particularly so. 

Q. Was Mr. Bogle discharged on account of permitting Mr. Daniels 
to have the key f — A. He was discharged, it is my impression, at the 
recommendation of Mr. McLeer for that reason, and it was ratified by 
the collector. 

Q. When was he discharged, and how ? — A. I do not know the date. 
I think there was a letter written from the office in relation to him, 
recommending his discharge. 

Q. When was that distillery of Mr. Daniels seized ? — A. In the lat- 
ter part of 1881 ; I think it was some time in October. 

Q. Do you know who got that key from the oftice ? It was found, as I 
understand you, that Mr. Bogle had the key, and let Mr. Daniels hav^e 
it ; do you know who obtained it from the office ? — A. The records show 
that Mr. Bogle got it from the office. 

Q. What record ? — A. At the office kept by the clerk in charge of 
these matters. 

Q. Who was the clerk ! — A. Mr. Colyer. 

Q. Mr. McLeer says that you told him that you did not see anything 
particularly wrong in giving Mr. Daniels Freeze's warehouse key. — A. 
I said nothing of the sort. 

Q. You deny that f — A. I do, most positively. I remember the con- 
versation about the manner in which the key was handed by him to 
Mr. Bogle, and, if I am allowed, I will correct Mr. McLeer's report 
under oath 

Q. You are under oath now. — A. — as to the manner in which that key 
was obtained by Mr. Daniels, Mr. Daniels wished to make a withdrawal 
of a certain amount of whisky from this warehouse ; Mr. Bogle was a 
qualified store-keeper, sworn and bonded, and he was designated by the 
clerk in charge of the stamps and of the business of the general store- 
keeper, whoever it was, to make the withdrawal. It appears that Mr. 
Daniels was in the office at the time, and Mr. Bogle — Mr. Colyer sat at 
his usual desk about fifteen feet from where Mr. Bogle was doing some 
writing — Mr. Daniels went to Mr. Colyer and asked him for the key for 
Mr. Bogle ; Mr. Colyer, looking up, handed it to him, supposing he was 
going to give it to Mr. Bogle, who had the orders to receive it. 

Q. Did you tell that to Mr. McLeer! — A. I told him so a dozen times. 

Q. Before he made his report; when he asked you to examine about 
it? — A. No, sir; I did not know anything of the circumstances till I 
examined them myself. I notice Mr. McLeer puts a lot of words in 
my mouth in that report, all of which was innuendo to a certain extent. 

Q. Who was the clerk, Mr. Colyer, who designated Mr. Bogle to act? — 
A. The cashier or stamp clerk designated Mr. Bogle to make the with- 
drawal. 

Q. Had he any authority to do that? — A. Yes, sir; in the business 
of the general store-keeper, as I just explained, when he was on other 
duty, and whisky was being required to be tax-paid, under the in- 
structions and regulations he was allowed to designate a sworn officer. 
S. Mis. 116 10 



242 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. The collector was allowed, not the clerk? — The clerk, acting for 
the collector, of course. 

Q. Thatyousay is a regulation"? — A. ISTo, sir; not a regulation, simply 
a custom ; no regulation about it. 

Q. Is that legal! — A. I see nothing illegal about it. There is a law 
which says that no officer can delegate anybody to use his tools, brands^ 
marks, and so on, but it was not a delegation to use his tools and marks, 
simply to perform his duty for him. 

Q. Was there not a general store-keeper in town! — A. Not at that 
time, it is my impression; an investigation seemed to prove he was not 
in town at the time Mr. Bogle was delegated in order to accommodate 
the tax-payer, and the liej was recorded as having been handed to Mr. 
Bogle by Mr. Colyer at the time, proving conclusively that he handed 
the key to Mr. Bogle, although through a third party. In fact he so 
swore in court, and I heard his testimony. He did so with the inten- 
tion that Mr. Bogle should receive that key, as being the one qualified 
to receive it. 

Q. Let me read to you a little from Mr. Brooks's report, so as to see 
what you have to say to it. Sijeaking of the sixth district, he saj's : 

There is work enougli in that district for two agents and all the assistance they can 
get, for it must he remembered that so long as Mr. Coite remains as chief deputy of 
that district, agents need not expect that assistance from the local officers that they 
receive in the other districts in this State, for the simple reason that they are aware 
that to give an agent information regarding frauds or irregularities in the district will 
incur the displeasure of Mr. Coite, and may result to their pecuniary injury. I know 
of instances recently where officers have incurred Mr. Coite's displeasure by talking 
to me about matters in the district, for the reason, as Mr. Coite put it, he did not 
want Brooks to find out everything that was going on in the district. 

Do you recollect any instance where anybody incurred your dis- 
pleasure! — A. That is one of the cases of iunuendo in which there is 
no truth whatever ; I solemnly swear that I have giv^en every agent 
every facility in my power, and by order of the collector also. As far as 
incurring my displeasure, I do not think a man ever spoke of any in- 
stance having occurred to my knowledge. Such words have never 
issued from my lips ; in fact, 1 am prepared personallj^ to gi\'e, and re- 
quire every officer who is subordinate to me to give, information wher- 
ever possible to be obtained, and also by order of the collector. 

Q. Let me read you a little more : 

Mr. Coite is noted for making excuses for frauds and irregularities discoveied in the 
district, instead of trying to correct abuses; for instance, in the recent case of W. A. 
Daniels, distiller, who received the key of Freeze's warehouse from the collector's 
office, gutted the warehouse of 19 bbls. of spirits, then returned the key to the office. 
Mr. Coite told me he could not see anything particularly wrong in giving Mr. Daniels 
Freeze's warehouse key, as Mr. Daniels had always been regarded as a very reputable 
citizen in the community, while the facts are that Mr. Daniels has the reputation of 
being one of the worst whisky thieves in the district. 

That you have already denied ! — A. I have denied it. Under the 
circumstances I have said that it was right to give to Mr. Daniels the 
keys of the warehouse, or to any other person, and have explained the 
statement how Mr. Daniels received the kej^s. I saw nothing wrong 
at the time, and I further remember that 1 said to Mr. Brooks at the 
time that I always considered Mr. Daniels to be a good and honest citi- 
zen up to that time. I further said that I thought he took that whisky 
and ought to be convicted for it. That showed the sympathy I had 
with him, and I was willing to do all that I could possibly to convict 
him ; and did do all I could possibly. 

Q. I will read you a little more : 

It was in Mr, Coite's fertile brain the scheme of seudiuo; out a circular assessing the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 243 

Dumerons officers of the district 1 per ceut. a month of their salary for incidental ex- 
penses for the office originated. 

Were you the originator of that scheme? — A. 1 do not think so. 

Q. Who did suggest it '? — A. I think it was done in a general conver- 
sation in tlie office, by all the olficer.s — first one said one thing, and 
another another. It was api)roved by the collector for the simple rea- 
son that we were then being taxed for the em])loynient of a messenger 
and other expenses in the office not allowed by the government, and we 
did not care to pay ont of our meager salaries what the government 
ought to give, especially the extra expenses incurred by reason of the 
increase of the number of store kee])ers. My brain is very fertile, but 
not sufficiently so for that. I think Mr. Brooks's is more fertile than 
mine. 

Q. 1 will read you a little more: 

Mr. Coite is always coujplaiuing of being overworked, and finding fault with the de- 
partment for recjuiring so much of him, while the facts are that Mr. Coite has so much 
private business outside of the office that it is seldom he can be found at the office 
when he is wanted, more especially when he is not expecting a call from au agent. 

A. That is a falsehood, and 1 pronounce that a falsehood. 
Q. (Readiug:) 

There is not a district in the State so backward about furnishing information as the 
sixth, for which fact, in my opinion, Mr. Coite is responsible. Important information 
which can be obtained from other districts in this State in a few hours, by telegraph, 
takes weeks to get from the sixth district, greatly to the detriment of the government's 
interests. To illustrate : On December lU, 1881, there was seized in this district three 
wagons containing thirteen packages of illicit brandy, three of the packages bear the 
stamps, marks, and brands of distilleries iu tiie sixth district, two from one distiller 
and one from another. The last-named package was tax paid in April, 1881, the two 
packages tax paid iu September, 18^1, and originally contuined corn ichisky. On the 
day of the seizure I wrote Collector Mott, giving names of distillers, serial numbers 
of casks and of warehouse and tax-paid stamps, name of the store-keeper and ganger, 
and ilate of tax-paid stamps, requesting to know to whom the distiller disposed of 
these packages. On December 22, not having received an answer, I wrote Collector 
Mott again, asking him to send me the information called for in my letter of the 10th 
instant. Under date of December 23, he sent me the information in regard to the 
two packages tax paid in September, 1881, but as yet I have not received the informa- 
tion in regard to the one package tax paid in Ai>ril, 1881. 

Q. Did you know anything of that"? — A. I do not recollect that cir- 
cumstance, but if such a thing did occur it is probable the distiller re- 
sided miles away fj'om the office of the district, and his letter was re- 
ferred in due course to the division deputy to obtain the information, 
and send it to the office. When it was received it was transmitted to 
Mr. Brooks. We have no telegraphs or railroads, and have to depend 
npon the division deputy to do all that work, and I deny that any re- 
quest ever sent by Mr. Brooks to the office that came under my 
cognizance did not receive my immediate attention or the collector's. 
I pi)siti\'ely deny that under oath. 

Q. You have stated you know of no official misconduct on the part of 
Dr. Mott during the time you have been in office; that is so, is it"? — 
A. I know of none. 

Q. Do you know of any on the part of any of the other officers of the 
district ? — A. Several, I think, have been discharged for official mis- 
conduct; for negligence, &c. 

Q. We are investigating the whole department, not Dr. Mott partic- 
ularly. You say you know of no instance of misconduct in the depart- 
ment ■? — A. I know of several instances where men have been discharged 
for official misconduct. 

Q. Do you know of R. A. Cobb, who was discharged for alleged oom- 
plicity in frauds? — A. I know Cobb was discharged, but do not recollect 
the reason of his discharge. 



244 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. In the official list of subordinate officers dismissed on charges in 
the sixth district of North Carolina by Collector Mott, E. A. Cobb, store- 
keeper, is mentioned as being dismissed November 1, 1878, for malfeas- 
ance in office. True bill found by the grand jury. Uo you recollect 
anything of that ? — A. I do not, sir ; I simply know that fact, that 
about that time he was discharged. It is recalled to me by your read- 
ing that; but the facts, or the details of it, I know nothing. 

Q. Do you know the further fact that since he has been reappointed"? 
— A. I know that he has been acting as a raiding deputy. 

Q. As a deputy? — A. No, sir; as a raiding deputy. 

Q. A deputy with a surname *? — A. No, sir ; a deputy with no re- 
sponsibility as such — simply to go through the country and hunt up 
illicit distilleries and destro^^ them. 

Q. He has no responsibility whatever ? — A. Personally, none. 

Q, Is there such an office as that provided by law ? You know what 
the responsibility of a division deputy is; he gives no bond, or any- 
thing of that sort? — A. No, sir; he gives no bond, but performs the 
duties of a deputy. 

Q. When was he assigned to that irresponsible deputyship ? — A. 
That I don't recollect. 1 know he was for some length of time acting 
as a raiding deputy. 

Q. Do you know that he is now 1 — A. No, sir; he is not in now. 

Q. When was he put out again ? — A. When the appropriation for 
that purpose was exhausted. I think about a year ago — he was simply 
dropped, not put out. 

Q. In a statement of payments made to store-keepers by J. J. Mott, 
collector of the sixth district. North Carolina, from July 1, 1875, to 
June 30, 1876, I see Mr. E. B. Drake drew pay for November, 1875, at 
$130, and for December, 1875, 1135 ; that brings it up to January, 1876, 
and the vouchers for the same are filed ? — A. He could not be a store- 
keeper at a hundred and thirty and a hundred and thirty-five dollars, 
sir. 

The Clerk. The roll says the rate is $5 per day, and for the quarter 
ending December 31, 1875, he is put down for November, $130, and for 
December, $135. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. That is before it was reduced to $4 per day ? — A. Yes, sir ; I sim- 
ply meant, though, that he was not a store-keeper when I went therein 
1875. 

Q. Do you know that Mr. Cobb was indicted ? — A. I did not; I know 
nothing of the details in his case, or cause of his dismissal. 

Q. Do you know what became of Mr. Setzer? — A. AVhich Setzer? 

Q. He was store-keeper at Mr. Clarke's when his distillery was seized? 
— A. My impression is he was dismissed. 

Q. Was he ever restored to the rolls ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You recollect the seizure of Mr. Clarke's distillery? — A. Mr. 
Clarke's distillery was not seized. 

Q. Then, of course, you do not recollect the date when it was seized ? 
— A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Do you recollect when it was ascertained that three or four hun- 
dred gallons of whisky had disappeared from his warehouse ? — A. I 
do ; I remember the circumstance, not the date. 

Q. Whose district was that in as general store-keeper ? — A. At the 
time of the discovery, in the district of Walter B. Mott. He had it 
from the previous October. Previous to that time it was in the district 
of Mr. E. B. Drake, who had it since its suspension. 



THE SIXTH IJISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 245 

Q. Do you know who had the key at the time this liquor was ab- 
stracted ? — A. Yes, sir ; I know that Mr. Setzer had the key ; at least 
it was so reported at the otii(!e. 

Q. AVas it lawful for Mr. Setzer to have it? — A. Not under the cir- 
cumstauces. I do not think it was proper, although Mr. Setzer was ap- 
pointed store-keeper, aud expecting, as I understand it, to go on dutj^ 
and resume operations at an early day ; but it gave hira no right to the 
key during the suspension of the distillery. 

Q. Whose duty was it to keep that key"? — A. It should have been 
kept in the possession of the general store-keeper ? 

Q. Whom did Setzer get it from ? — A. Am 1 to be allowed to testify 
as to hearsay "? 

Q. Well, the matter was investigated at the office, and you can say 
what was disclosed on the investigation. — A. Well, the general store- 
keeper, Mott, soon after he became such, in October, went to the dis- 
tillery to withdraw some spirits — to tax ymy some whisky — in which 
duties he states he was assisted by Mr. Setzer, who had been store-keeper 
during the oi)eration of the distillery. 

Q. That was Mr. Clarke's own distillery ? — A. I mean Mr. Setzer. 
After the duties were performed he had other duties to perform in Lin- 
coln County, and gave the key to Setzer, who was a bonded and sworn 
officer, requesting him aud obtaining from him the promise to take it 
to the office in Stateville, where he announced his intention to go that 
day. That is how he obtained possession of the key. He never per- 
formed that promise but kept the key in his possession, and it was 
never discovered he had' it, until the whisky was found to be gone. 
Immediately on the discovery of the loss of the whisky the law was 
carried out, the assessment made, and the taxes were demanded and 
were paid with interest in full. 

Q. Have you not got that a little wrong" ? Did it not turn out in the 
investigation that Setzer removed the whisky and stamped it himself 
in the absence of the store-keeper, Mott? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did it not turn out that Mr. Clarke and Store-keeper Mott went 
away from the warehouse down to Troutman's depot, for some tacks 
and varnish ? — A. It ma}' have been reported by the agent, but Dr. 
Walter Mott told me he went there to the depot, and on his return 
Setzer was completing the job, and he supervised and inspected him- 
self the o[)eration, and the whisky that was tax paid before it was 
turned over, and he remained at Mr. Clarke's house that night, because 
it was too late to go to Lincoln. That is Walter Mott's statement to me. 

Q. Do you not recollect that there was a statement that he went off 
to Troutman's depot? — A. They went there to get something, and re- 
turned before the operation was performed. 

Q. Was it the custom, where you had confidence in a distiller who 
was a man of standing and character, to let him have the key when lie 
applied for it ? — A. It was contrary to the custom ; in fact, he was never 
allowed to get the keys. 

Q. From the office you mean ? — A. From the office or anywhere, if it 
were to the knowledge of the office or collector. In fact it was positi\ ely 
ordered not to allow anybody to have the key, except the sworn and 
bonded officers of the government, under the law and regulations. 

Q. Do you know what district has been assigned to j\tr. Drake as 
general store-keei)er, and how many distillers have been in his charge 
since 1870? — A. I know the district that it was, the counties of Davie 
and Rowan, two counties with a number of stills which varied. He 



246 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

has never liad less tbau half a dozen, and sometimes they ran as high 
as twenty-five or thirty, in my judgment. 

Q. Did he do what work was necessary himself, or get some other 
store-keeper to do it for him ? — A. I know personally of a few cases in 
which he got others to do it personally for him; my impression is that 
he did his work himself. From my own i)ersonal knowledge I am 
unable to say. 

Q. How much of his time was he kept at that duty"? — A. I am unable 
to state. 

Q. He edited a paper at the same time, did he not ? — A. He wrote 
for it, and remained in the office of the paper; whether he edited it or 
not I do not know. It was in the name of his son. 

Q. How long has it been in the name of his son ? — A. I am unable 
to swear. 

Q. Do you know whether he had permission of the Commissioner of 
Internal Eevenue to pursue any other occupation f — A. I do not know, 
sir. 

Q. Do you know whether he had or not"? — A. I do not, sir. 

Q. Has it been the custom in the office since you have been there to 
allow men to draw double pay for doing the duties of another position 
besides the one they were commissioned to? — A. It is contrary to the 
custom and law and regulations. 

Q. So that if any man received double paj^, it was illegal? — A. Yes, 
sir ; and unknown to the office. 

Q. How could it be unknown to the office"? — A. It was unknown to 
the office. I know of no such things since I have been there. 

Q. But if any one had drawn in a regular way the pay of two offices, 
it must have been known to the office"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Otherwise they could not have got the money"? — A. 'No, sir. 

Q. Are you on the official bond of Mr. Cooper"? — A. I am. 

Q. For how much did yon sign *? — A. Ten thousand dollars. 

Q. Did you justify in that amount"? — A. I did. 

Q. Have you property in North Carolina worth that much"? — A. Kot 
in North Carolina. 

Q. You have not? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you any projjerty that would in our law be subject to exe- 
cution there"? — A. I cannot say that 1 have, except an interest in a 
building there to the extent of about $1,000 or $1,500. 

Q. What building is that "? — A. The tobacco warehouse building of 
Jourgenson & Co. 

Q. You are interested in a tobacco warehouse establishment *? — A. I 
have an interest in it to that extent. 

Q. Is it lawful for you to be on the bond of the collector of the dis- 
trict ■? — A. I see nothing against it. 

Q. Is there nothing in the law to forbid officers to go on official bonds ? 
— A. I know nothing against it in the law. 

Q. Nothing iu the law forbidding you to have an interest in the man- 
ufacture of tobacco or whisky"? — A. Yes, sir; something in the law 
about having an interest iu the manufacture of whisky. 

Q. Is not a tobacco warehouse considered such an establishment ? 
— A. No, sir. 

Q. Is it within the law °? — A. Yes, sir; I had advice on that subject 
before I entered into the enterprise with Mr. Jorgenson, and ascer- 
tained that it was not a violation of the law to be interested to the ex- 
tent that I am in the sale of leaf tobacco — the crude, raw material — no 
more than in the selling of corn. That was the advice that I got. 



THE SIXTH DLSTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 247 

Q. But you are interested in tlie warehouse to that extent ? — A. To 
that extent ; yes, sir. 

Q. Have you any interest in tlie manufacture of tobacco ? — A. Xo, 
sir ; I am not interested in any manner, shape, or form. 

Q. Would you consider yourself at liberty to own an interest in a 
whisky-dealing house ? — A. ]^o, sir. 

Q. But you do consider yourself at liberty to have an interest, not in 
the manufacturino-, but as a dealer in tobacco '? — A. As a dealer. The 
law expressly says that an officer shall not sell distilled si)irits or mau- 
ufacture the sanie, or manufacture tobacco. You asked me about that 
bond. My justification was made by reason of my interest in my 
father's estate, who died a year ago, and left a large estate, and my 
interest in it is worth vastly nu:)re than what 1 have justified for on Mr. 
Cooper's bond. 

Q. But it is not in Xorth Carolina. Let me read you a little from Mr. 
McLeer's report in regard to Mr. Clark's distillery or warehouse : * 

Mr. Mott said that when he was appointed general store-keeper and ganger he called 
at the collector's office and received the keys to the warehonses iu his division, but he 
did not remember whether he had the key to the warehouse of Clark's distillery at the 
time of last withdrawal of spirits or not, bnt said that the store-keeper and ganger, J. 
C Setzer, did all of the work of attaching stamps, marking barrels, &c., when the four- 
teen packages were withdrawn, and that while Setzer was doing it he and Mr. Clark, 
the distiller, drove to Troutman's station and back, being absent about two hours. 
That on their return Mr. Setzer had all the packages to be tax paid ready for removal ; 
that he did not examine balance of packages remaining iu the warehouse, neither did 
he examine the fourteen packages tax paid so as to ascertain contents of same; that 
on leaving the warehouse he handed the key to Setzer and asked him to return same 
to the office. 

The real facts are, as developed by investigation, that the general store-keeper 
and ganger, Walter B. Mote, never had the key in his possession ; that the old store- 
keeper, .1. C. Setzer, got it from the office July 11, and still has it for aught that either 
W. B. Mott or the collector's office know about. 

EDWARD McLEER. 

A. That accords exactly with my testimony, except as to his examin- 
ation of the packages. On his return I distinctly remember his saying 
to me that he did examine the packages and saw they were prop- 
erly tax paid ; he also told me at that time, or at some subsequent time, 
that his object in getting Setzer to perform this duty for him was that 
he was a recently-appointed store-keeper and ganger, and wanted the 
•experience of an older man. 

Q. Xow, had Mr. Mott any right to designate Setzer to withdraw 
those spirits and stamp them ? — A. ]S^o, sir ; not a right at the time or 
under the circumstances. 

Q. Had he any right to leave Setzer iu possession of the spirits and 
the key of the warehouse ? — A. He had no right, but he was a new 
store-keeper, and probably this was his first act as store-keeper, and 
probably he was ignorant of the law, but his attention has since beeu 
called to it. 

The committee here took a recess until 2 p. m. 



Washington, D. C, July 10, 1882. 
The committee met after recess at 2 p. m. 
W. J. Coite's examination resumed. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Question. You have stated that you had known of whisky being sold 
at 95 cents a gallon ; do you mean to say that the distillers sold it at 



248 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

that price? — Answer. I have known contracts to be made by wbolesale 
dealers tor whisky at that price ; yes, sir. 

Q. By distillers ? — A. Yes, sir; 5 cents over the tax in any quantity. 
Messrs. Elliot and Eemley, of Charlotte, told me that they bought a 
lot of whisky at 95 cents a gallon. 

Q. Was not that one of tbe cases where parties were in pressing need 
of money ? — A. Probably ; I simply state the fact. I know it to be 
sold, according to their statement, at that price. 

Q. In how many instances have you known that ? — A. That is the 
only authenticated one, except in the case of government sales of whisky 
in certain portions of the district where nobody would bid. 

Q. In speaking of public sales of that kind, it would have to go at) 
whatever it brought? — A. Over the taxes and expenses. 

Q. In speaking of political assessments, were they voluntary pay- 
ments'? — A. So far as I know anything about it they were all voluntar- 
ily and cheerfully made. 

Q. Did you ever know of anybody discharged for not paying them f 
— A. No, sir; I have known of many officers who never paid a cent^. 
and they are still in the service; I say many, I mean several. 

Q. You were speaking of trouble at a distillery where Mr. Bogle fig- 
ured just now, and Sharpe ; was that the Freeze distillery ? — A. I don't 
exactly understand the question. 

Q. You were speaking of trouble where Mr. Bogle figured. — A. 
That was the Freeze distillery. 

Q. Was that matter .thoroughly investigated ?-^ A. I think it was^ 
and it came up in the United States court at the last session in States- 
ville. The agents who had the matter in charge were there and testi- 
fied on the stand under oath. 

Q. So the whole thing has been fully and completely investigated ;, 
first by the commissioner? — A. And by his agents, and also the United 
States courts. 

Q. You had some questions put to you upon the report of Mr. Brooks, 
in which your name was very freely used ; was there ever any pei sonal 
difficulty between you and Mr. Brooks ? — A. I never had any i)ersonal 
difficulty with him, but I remember on one occasion a little personality 
that occurred between us that might have given him reason to use his. 
official position to my detriment. 

Q. Was that before this report was made f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State what it was. — A. It was at the time of the seizure of the 
Daniels distillery, or the Freeze distillery seizure. He came into the 
office to investigate it. I, of course, rendered all the assistance in my 
power at the time, but he took occasion to comment upon the character 
of the different officers, and more particularly of the distillers and tax- 
payers of tlie sixth North Carolina district, stigmatizing them as all 
thieves ; saying that they would all steal and defraud the government, 
or words to that eifect. I contradicted him very violently, for the sim- 
ple reason that I had some personal friends among the distillers ; for 
instance, Mr. Cooper's brother and others. I told him he was mistaken. 
I contradicted him rather violently. He did not take it up personally 
at the time, but I saw he was offended, and since that time he has been 
doing all he can by innuendo and report to attack my name and official 
duties. 

Q. Do you know that he went deliberately to work to have you put 
out of office f — A. I know it now. I did not know it until a week or teii' 
days ago that there were reports made against me by him. I never was. 
allowed to know the character of them-, nor did I know his reports, which 
wore ]>riiit('d or written — what was in them. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 249 

Q. These rei)orts were made to the Coiiimissioner of Intermil llevemie "? 
— A. I am so iufornied. 

Q. Did he investigate them 1 — A. You mean tlie Commissioner ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. He has not, that J know of. He probably, however, 
has incjnired as to the substanc^e of tliem, or I wouhl not l)e in ofitice, 
had he not eome to the eonehision tliat they were nnfounded. 

Q. You were retained in oflice without any complaint of the Com- 
missioners, notwitlistanding what Drooks lias said about you? — A. I 
am retained in ol1i(!e. 

Mr. Pool. What is tlie <bite of that re])ort of Mr. Brooks's 1 

The Chairman. It was 1S8(), I think. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You are not aware that Mr. Brooks's report has jjroduced any im- 
pression upon the Commissioner of Internal Revenue adverse to you f 
— A. I do not think he has any adverse feeling toward me now ; but 
I think that there was an impression produced on the department 
after his return, because I was sensible of it myself. 

Q. You think since he has looked into the nnitter he has sustained 
you? — A. I have heard nothing further since it has been explained to 
liini by my friends. I knew nothing of the character of the report at 
all until 1 arrived here a week or two ago. 1 never knew he made any 
report against me. 

Q. You spoke of Mr. Cobb as having been removed from office and 
afterwards employed as a special deputy for raiding. He was sim[)ly 
employed as a raider. What do you mean by that ? Please ex[dain 
the duties of a raider. — A. There is a certain allowance nnxdo by the 
Conunissioner of Internal llevenue monthly for the employment of men 
to ride around through the (M)untry to discover and destroy illicit dis- 
tilleries. He was not reipiired to be a man of education, but simply 
to know the paths in thi^ mountain, &c., and, as I stated before, they 
have no responsibility, as division or oflice deputies have. They give 
no bond, and are emi)loyed from month to month the same as an ordi- 
nary watchnnin or a policeman is employed to arrest men ; that is the 
character of a raider, and Mr. Cobb was one of those. 

Q. It was necessary to have a man who knew the by-ways and knew 
how to go through the country ; and was it not well to have one who 
was acquainted with these distillers ? — A. Yes, sir; that was the char- 
acter of the men required, who knew not only the country but the dis- 
tillers, and they were smart and courageous enough to go around 
amongst them and destroy their illicit stills. 

Q. It was not requisite for such a man that lie should have particu- 
liiT\y a high character for honesty ? — A. Oh, no, sir. 

Q. In that respect the position of a raider was ditt'erent from other 
revenue oflicers ? — A. Very different. 

Q. Do you consider Mr. Cobb a good man to break u[) these illicit 
distilleries ? — A. I thought at the time that he performed his duties in 
discovering and breaking up distilleries very effectively. The collector 
thought so also. 

Q. Did he break u]) many '? — A. He was the effectual means of break- 
ing a good many of them up. He knew the country quite well in which 
he was on duty, and knew most of the illicit distilleries either by repu- 
tation or location, and could go to them. 

Q. He was a man of courage? — A. I judge he was, sir. I never 
heard of his taltering. 

Q. You said something of Mr. Drake's editing a newspaper ; it was 
only a weekly pnper, was it not? — A. A weekly i)aper; yes, sir. 



250 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Yon spoke of there having been no instance since yon had been 
in the office of an officer drawing donble pay for double service ; that 
is, of a deputy being both a store-keeper and ganger at the same time 
and drawing pay "? — A. IsTot to mj knowledge has any officer drawn 
donble pay. Before I went into the office down there the internal rev- 
enue was a little more lax and loose in these particulars, as I know, 
than it is now, and it would be impossible for a man to put his voucher 
through at present for two services at one time ; but in former times I 
think it was to a certain extent the custom or practice to allow them to 
do so. 

Q. So in your testimony you have no reference to as long ago as '73? 
— A. Not previous to my incumbency of the office. 
By the Chairman : 

Q. I believe you told me that if that was done at any time it was 
against the law 1 — A. At any time since my incumbency of the office. 
As I was saying, previous to that time it was so loose and lax that it 
was to a certain extent winked at. 

Q. You told me that you had been in the Internal Eevenue Depart- 
ment three years before you went down there f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And at no time it had been the law ? — A. Kot that I know of. 

Q. So, if that thinff was done there it was in violation of the law ? 
— A. I do not know any law to that effect, and, therefore, if there is no 
law it could not be a violation of the law. 

Q. I would like to understand how you testified ?—A To that 
€fifect^ — that there is no law to that effect — where an officer can draw 
pay for two different services at the same time. 

Q. Well, if it was drawn, then it was drawn without law? — A. 
Drawn without law — simply by usage. 

Q. And you say a man who makes raids and destroys people's prop- 
erty need not necessarily be a man of good character ? — A. Pardon me, 
I did not say of good character. 

Q. You said "honesty." — A. I said he need not be a man of educa- 
tion generally, or that sort of thing. As you know yourself, a man more 
of a mountaineer, one of those rough characters, will do more effectual 
service than a man living in the city all his life ; and Cobb was a man 
of that kind. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. I asked you if he need be a man of any jjarticular honesty, and 
you said, "i^o." — A. 1 withdraw that answer, and say that he must be 
a man of honesty. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I will ask you if he did not command a considerable force of 
guides and assistants, and did not make out the bills of expenses for 
them all ? — A, No, sir. 

Q. Who did ? — A. The deputy in charge of the raiding force, who 
employs them and has charge of or commands those raiders — those 
lower employes. 

Q. Did not Mr. Cobb command raiding parties ? — A. I do not know 
whether he really commanded a raiding party or not; but he was in 
charge of one or two men of a squad to destroy certain distilleries or 
ferret out business of that kind. 

Q. When that was over, did he make out the bill of expenses and 
diary reports ? — A. No, sir. 

0. Who did ! — A. The men whom he employed, whom he engaged as 
guides, for instance. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 251 

Q. Tliev made out their own report.s ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Col)b had nothiuji' to do with that f— A. No, sir. They were 
made out on form number 10, a simple little paper, stating the services 
performed and giving a receipt per diem for the same. 

H. W. Moore sworn and examined for the government. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Where is your present residence, and what is your occupa- 
tion f — Answer. I am residing in this city, and am eonployed in the 
Sixth Auditor's Office. 

Q. Were you at one time in the revenue service of the sixth district 
of North Carolina ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what capacity ? — A. Store-keeper and ganger. 

Q. Who were you store-keeper for first! — A. John H. Davidson, at 
Marion, McDowell County, and afterwards for A. Simmons. 

Q. How long were you with him ? — A. With Mr. Simmons one month 
over a year. 

Q. Where did you go to then ? — A. Then I resigned from the reve- 
nue service and Avent into mining. 

Q. Y"ou were not in the service any more after that ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were yon ever a store-keeper tor John Carson ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where was Mr. Carson's distillery ? — A. It was known as Carson's, 
but Davidson was the i)ro[)rietor. Carson never run the distillery to 
my knowledge. 

Q. He was interested at all events, he was the owner of it ? — A. I 
shouhl think not. It was in the seventh district. 

Q. That is the one I am thinking of. Did it suspend before you 
left! — A. Mr. J)avidson, you mean ? 

Q. Yes. — A. Mr. Davidson closed up and Simmons succeeded him. 
It was in the seventh district before the district was changed. 

Q. How much whisky did you leave in the warehouse when the dis- 
tillery suspended! — A.' I am "not able to state that. My reports will 
show. There were two warehouses in charge of the store-keeper there, 
and I have forgotten the number of gallons in each. 

Q. Were you in charge of both! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect the number of barrels ! — A. No, sir ; I could not 
recollect, but I could give it to you approximately. 

By ]Mr. Pool : 

Q. What time was this ! 

The Witness. It was in 1878 or 1879. I went therein March, 1878, 
and left there in June, 1879. I think in the Simmons warehouse there 
was something over 2,(»0() gallons, and in the Davidson warehouse possi- 
bly 1,200 gallons. The reports in the office show all these things. 

Q. Did you gauge it to ascertain the quantity when you left and re- 
l)ort it ! — A. No, sir; I gauged it in. It is not the rule to gauge when 
you. leave a warehouse. Yon turn it over to the officer succeeding you, 

Q. Was it not afterwards discovered tliat a large part of those bar- 
rels puri)orting to be whisky contained water! — A. So I learned while 
in Washington; I heard that report while I was still in Yancey. 

Q. How much of it was found to be barrels tilled with water! — A. I 
do not recollect the number. The men know who investigated it. The 
whole matter was investigated, so I understood. 

Q. Have you any reason to believe that was changed while in your 
care ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Who succeeded yon as store-kee]>er! — A. M. M. Teague. 



252 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Wheu was it discovered — dnriug Teagiie's administration! — At 
Yea, sir. Eight or nine months after 1 left. 

Q. In which warehouse was it, or was it in both of them ? — A. I do 
not recollect. I think possibly in both. I do not recollect those cir- 
cumstances. I only heard the rumor as it came from Marion. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any contract between the distiller 
and collector and the owner to pay the taxes on the whisky for him ? — ■ 
A. ISTo, sir. A contract between the distiller and collector and the 
owner I 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. JSTo, sir. 

Q. To pay the taxes for the owner, the distiller, and collector; the 
distiller was not the owner of the whisky, as I understand it. — A. The 
distiller was the owner of the whisky, so far as I know. 

Q. Was there no contract between any of the government officers 
and the distiller to pay the tax, fine on the same, and to say nothing 
about it? — A. Not to my knowledge. I never knew anything of that 
kind. 

Q. Did 3^ou ever tell any one that Dr. Mott had threatened you ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. And that if he did turn you oft' you would come here to Washing- 
ton and " bust " him ? — A. No, sir ; I am positive I never said anything 
of that kind. 

Q. Were you not attacked or accused in some way as being responsi-" 
ble for the loss of this whisky ?— A. I understood that Teague said that 
the warehouse was left in a bad condition. That is the only knowledge 
I had of it. I never paid any attention to it, for wheu I turned over 
the warehouse it was in good order, as the reports showed ; and I think 
that matter was determined by the department. 

Q. You reported it in good order ? — A. Yes, sir. He received it in 
good order and. examined it at the time it was taken. 

Q. And you did not know anything of any arrangement to pay the 
taxes for the lost whisky ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. During the time of your charge there, did Mr. Carson exercise any 
ownership about the distillery warehouse ? — A. The distillery was upon 
his property, and he had furnished grain to the distiller, and as I un- 
derstood he was to be paid out of the sale of the liquor taken out, and 
it was his mill that was used. The distiller had to pay for it, and the 
distiller was not a very responsible man, and he possibly had a lien 
upon the liquor, and I only inferred that he would necessarily take care 
of his own interest. 

J. Taylor, sworn and examined for the government. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where is your resilience ^^Answer. Cherokee County, 
North Carolina. 

Q. What is your age! — A. I will be sixty-one in October. 

Q. State if you or any of yonr family at any time have been engaged 
in distilling. — A. My son was engaged in it. 

Q. What was his name? — A. John M. Taylor. 

Q. When did he begin to distill 1 — A. Well he filed his bond in Feb- 
ruary, 1870. 

Q. Tell the whole story. — A. In May, 1S79, lie was required to file a 
new bond. At the commencement of the fiscal year he made an appli- 
cation for the same to F. P. Axley, -the deputy collector. 

Q. He resides in that county? — A. He lives in Murphy. He was 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 253 

at him frequently to know when his bond wouhl be back, so as to com- 
mence; not hearings in September he addressed a letter to the depart- 
ment. 

Q. What department ? — A. To Mr. Raum to know when he would 
be allowed to commence. He had his corn and everything- ready, and 
he received a letter from Mr. Rogers, the deputy commissioner at Wash- 
ington, stating he had referred his letter to Dr. Mott, and referred 
uiy son to that office. Not long after that the letter arrived that he 
had written for an explanation from the office at Washington, and on 
the back of his letter was written, " It was sui)posed his bond had been 
sleeping quietly in some local post-office." That was all the explana- 
tion he got. 

Q. Saying his bond had not gone on promptly. — A. That was from 
Dr. Mott. His name was to it. But Mr. Axley said the handwriting 
was Mr. Coite's. On the IGth of December an order came to put him 
at work, and they started the distillery on December IGth, the same 
year. They pnt Mr. H. L. Howell in as store-keeper. 

Q. He was pnt in as store-keeper? — A. Yes, sir. My son objected to 
Mr. Howell as not a proper man, but Mr. Axley insisted that he should 
go on with him, and he would have him exchanged and some other man 
l»ut in his place at the tirst of the next month, but that was not done. 
He complained that he did not want him at all, but Mr. Howell read a 
letter he said from the department, that he was responsible ; that the 
store-keepers were responsible for deficiencies. 

Q. Yon have not said anything about the deficiencies ; after yon began 
to distill was there a deficiency found every month "? — A. A deficiency 
the first half month. 

Q. Below the minimum amount allowed — two gallons'? — A. Yes, sir. 
My son complained to Mr. Axley about it. 

Q. What comi)laint did he make ? — A. That there was a deficiency, 
and the whisky was made. 

Q. Who by ? — A. By Mr. Howell, who used it out of the cistern room 
and ont of the warehouse, and he promised to remov^e him, but did not 
do it. Then Mr. Howell read a letter to my son that he was responsi- 
ble for the deficiency. 

Q. Where did that letter purport to come from? — A. From Dr. Mott. 

Q. That the store-keeper was responsible for the deficiency ?— A. Yes, 
sir; and he saw Mr. Axley, and I saw him myself, and he said it was 
so; so my son had employed a man to furnish the meal and the wood, 
and he went oft' to Weverville College, up near Asheville. 

Q. Yonr son had a regular distiller employed ? — A. Yes, sir; Ja«k 
Grant. 

Q. And employed a man to furnish meal and wood, and then went 
oft' to college? — A. Yes, sir; under the impression that Mr. Howell, 
the store-keeper, was responsible for any loss he might sustain. I was 
there while his distillery was rnnning, and complained myself to Mr. 
Axley that my son never could stand that. The whisky was made off 
with, and there was a deficiency every mouth. 

Q. State liow that deficiency took place. — A. It took place by Mr. 
Howell making away with it. 

Q. How did he do that? — A. He would let it go to any of his friends 
that wonld come arouiul, and the distiller showed me an account where 
lie had paid his own debts out of the whisky. 

Q. Did yon see any whisky removed yourself? — A. I saw it several 
times. 

Q. How was it removed? — A. By jng-fuls, bottle-fuls, and such like. 



254 " COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Right before your eyes ? — A. Yes, sir; no secret about it. It wasj 
public. 

Q. How long do you thiuk your son kept on distilling ? — A. He kept 
on in that way, trying to get Howell out, till 1 believe it was in Octo- 
ber that he suspended to get rid of him. 

Q. In October, 1880; he began in ]879'? — A. Yes, sir; in October^ 
1880. 

Q. He then suspended to get rid of Mr. Howell? — A. Just for one 
month, and H. A, Moss was put in and he ran up to February with 
Moss. 

Q. That would be February, 1881*? — A. Yes, sir; when he was noti- 
fied by Mr. Axley that he was going to seize upon the whisky, and 
sell his fixtures and all for the deficiency. 

Q. How much did the deficiency amount to ? — A. I never did know» 
I never learned. 

Q. How much did it amount to, according to your calculation and the 
distiller's ?— A. There was something over $100; $190, I believe. 

Q. Assessed"^ — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Keep right on with the story. — A. My son did not feel willing to 
pay for the loss when it was occasioned by the store-keeper; in fact, he 
would not pay the deficiency because it was done by the act of the 
store-keeper himself. 

Q. Then what was done when your son refused to pay the deficiency ? — 
A. His distillery was seized on and sold out; the liquor was seized and 
carried awa3\ It remained in the warehoiise for several months. After 
the second or third sale then it was carried to Asheville and sold. 

Q. How much of it was sold at the distillery f — A. I don't know ; I 
was not there. My son was there at the sales. 

Q. What did it bring ? — A. I was informed by Mr. Axley that it 
brought 92 or 93 cents a gallon. 

Q. Two or three cents over the taxes ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why did they not sell it from the distillery ? — A. Mr. Axley said 
he could not get bidders. 

Q. How much whisky was in the distillery when it was seized"? — A. 
I cannot tell how much was in the house when it was first seized, but 
in July, when Mr. Cooper — I think he regauged it — he gave to Mr. Moss 
the amount that was in, after the third sale, as 1,450 gallons. 

Q. That was the sale at the warehouse "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. After Mr. Cooper had gauged it? — A. He gauged it, or Moss, and 
gave that amount, as found by Cooper. He aided Cooper in gauging. 

Q. Is this the gauging certificate of Mr. Moss? (Quoting:) 

A^ALLEYTOWN, N. C, July 9th, 1881. 
1^1 distillery warehouse of J. M. Taylor, No. 1393, in the 6th dist. of N. C, there is 
fourteen hundred and fifty gallons of corn whisky in said warehouse. 

H. A. MOSS, 
Store-keener and Ganger. 

A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That w^as for the liquor that had been seized and sold at the still- 
house ? — A. There were three sales ; the first in February, the next in 
March. They forced my son to close up in March. They sold out every- 
thing — hogs, still, and everything. Then in March they had another 
sale. Then after that there was a sale ; I believe it was in April or 
May. Then I wrote a letter to Collector Mott, through Mr. Axley, as 
being the bondsman that I would stand responsible, asking him not to 
expose the whisky for sale anymore; that I would pay off the deficiency. 
I never heard further from it. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 255 

Q. What (lid tbej' uow do with this 1,450 gallous ? — A. They removed 
it from the warehouse and brought it upou the public road, aud carried 
it from there to Asheville and made a sale of it. I never learned how 
much they sold, or anything about it. I have been at the department 
from time to time and cannot ascertain. They say no report has been 
made to the department here. 

Q. Can you tell how much whiskj- was sold, and what it brought .' — 
A. I don't remember how much was seized, or anything- about it. 

Q. You say no report has ever been made to them ? — A. None. 

Q. When were you at the de])artment last to make inquiry ? — A. 
Friday. 

Q. Last Friday ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether the sale of all that liquor satisfied the as- 
sessment or not ; was anything else levied on ? — A. My sou's land was 
levied on. 

Q. For how much ? — A. Two hundred and twenty-eight acres in one 
lot and ninety-three in another. 

Q. For those assessments ? — A. I really don't know what the assess- 
ments were ; whether taxes on the spirits or whether the deficiency. 
I never did learn. 

Q. Is that in Mr. Axley's handwriting (handing- paper to witness) ! — 
A. Yes, sir ; that is his handwriting, 

Q. Is this an advertisement f Where did you get this ! — A. My sou 
took it down ; it was a notice Mr. Axley gave him then that he would 
sell. (Reading:) 

IXTEHNAL-UEVENUE SALE, POSTPONED. 

I will sell for cash to the highest bidder at distillery warehouse, No. 1393, of J. M. 
Taylor, on the 2l8t day of Feb'y, 1881, all the whisky on deposit iu said warehouse 
subject to the taxes due the goverument. Also 13*24 acres of land ou same day at resi- 
dence of H. A. Moss, in Valleytown Township, kuown as tract No. 21, iu 7th district; 
seized as the property of J. M. Taylor by virtue of a warrant of distraint in my bauds 
against said Taylor for internal-revenue taxes, interest, and penalty, this 14th day of 
February, 1881. 

F. P. AXLEY, 
Dejyiily Coll., 10 Div., 6th Dist, N. Carolina. 

Q. That, you say, was one of the advertisements that was put up? — 
A. Tes, sir; and then there was another in March. 

Q. Yon say, to the best of your knowledge, that the assessment levied 
for the deficiency of your son's distillery Avas a little over $100 ? — A. 
Moss said something over $100. 

Q. The store-keeper told you that it was something over $100 ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And for that there was a lot of whisky sold ; you do not knoAV how 
much? — A. I don't know anything about it. 

Q. On three different days ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Aud your warehouse, fixtures, tubs, and everything were sold ? — 
A. Everything, I think, was sold in February. 

Q. The 1,150 gallons remaining was hauled off toward Asheville^ 
and disposed of in some way ? — A. I cannot tell you, I never had any 
report of it. 

Q. And that assessment still was not satisfied, and they levied on the 
land I — A. My son's land. Yes, sir, in March ; the notice gave notice 
of the sale of the fixtures aud still, I think. 

Q. Had you any notice of how much was due ; how much they claimed 
was due still ? — A. No, sir. 



256 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. After the warehouse was seized and your son's distillery closed 
up, &c., did you and he remain there *? — A. We went down to the 
Cherokee Nation, in the Indian Territory. 

Q, And this gauging by Mr. Moss and the hauling off of the liquor 
towards Asheville, was it after you left or before? — A. When I got 
back. 

Q, When did you get back? — A. I came back in December. 

Q. Tell all you know of the condition of the warehouse while you 
were away, after it was in the hands of the store-keepers and officers ? 
— A. I don't know the condition. I went away and it had been broken 
into by some parties ; they had gone in and carried out the liquor and 
were selling it on the road. 

Q. Who were the parties ? — A. There was a colored man by the name 
of Adam Mooney, and Vance Marshall, were the two. 

Q. Did you take any steps to indict them ? — A. My son tried to get 
a true bill against them before the court, and after he got a warrant 
they ran away and went to Tennessee and were gone four or five months, 
and when they got back we got them, but could not get evidence suffi- 
cient to bind them. 

Q. Did you see where the warehouse had been broken into 1 — A. ISTo, 
sir ; I never have been there since they closed it up. 

Q. Were you told in what manner it had been broken into ? — A. At 
the top of the house, they tore off the boards and went in, so I was in- 
formed ; I never have been there. 

Q. Do you know whether the store-keeper's attention had been called 
to the condition of the warehouse? — A. When 1 got home and found it 
was in that condition, I reported it to Mr. Axley. After court he and 
Mr. Moss went up and fixed the top of the house, which had been stand- 
ing open for two months or more. 

Q. It had been open for two mouths'? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. While in the hands of the government 1 — A. Yes, sir ; after it had 
.been seized and taken charge of. 

Q. Did you receive any notice after it was seized to withdraw liquor 
from the warehouse and pay taxes on it ? — A. No, sir ; none. 

Q. Did your son receive any '? — A. Not that I know of. 

Q. I saw this in your papers ; when was it seized ? — A. Some time in 
February, 1881. 

Q. I see here what I presume is in Mr. Axley's handwriting (quoting) : 

Murphy, N. C, March 11th, 1881. 

J. M. Taylor, Esq. : 

Sir: By direction of J. J. Mott, coll. 6tli district, you are required by the first day 
of April, 1881, to withdraw from your warehouse, on account of excessive wastage, 
casks No. 5, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 48, if not withdrawn by 
the time mentioned, for amount due original contents. 
Respectfully, 

. F. P. AXLEY, D. Coll. 

Q. Is that Mr. Axley's handwriting ?— A. (Examining.) I believe it 
is ; it looks like it. 

Q. If that was ever served on your son, it was after the liquor had 
been seized ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And was in the hands of the government "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. What is the date of it, Mr. Chairman 1 

The Chairman. Eleventh of March, 1881. 

Q: The substance of your story is that your sou began to distill in 
December, 1879, with one Howell as store-keeper? — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTEICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 257 

Q. TUat Howell coiuineiiced using', carrying off, disposing of, and 
selling your son's liquor "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And drinking it himself I — A. Yes, sir. He was verj' bad for 
drinking. 

Q. And you bad complained to Mr. Axley, the deputy collector, resi- 
dent in that county, and that Mr. Axley showed you a letter from the 
department saying that the store-keeper would be held responsible for 
the wastage ? — A. It was Mr. Howell who showed me a letter. 

Q. From the department showing the store-keeper would be held re- 
sponsible for the deficiency ? — A. That he was responsible for the defi- 
cienc3\ 

Q. That after that your son went on distilling, and the waste and ab- 
straction of the liquor by Howell kept on, and there was a deficiency 
every month, until your son had to stop to get rid of him? — A. He 
suspended for a month. 

Q. During the month of October? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And afterwards, in February, the liquor, still-house, and fixtures 

were seized for this deficiency, which amounted A. As 1 told you, it 

amounted to something over $100— I think, $192. 

Q. Nearly $200, then "?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And for that a part of the liquor — how much you don't know — 
was sold at the still-house '? — A. There were three sales. 

Q. It brought 92 or 93 cents a gallon f — A. So I was informed by 
Mr. Axley. • 

Q. And that after that sale the gangers, Mr. Cooper and Mr. Moss, 
gauged it and reported in this certificate that there was 1,450 gallons 
left ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Which was hauled off toward Asheville ? — A. A portion of it. 

Q. It was sold there, at how much you do not know, and have never 
been able to get a report of? — A. I called on Mr. Axley for a report, as 
I was the bondsman, and wanted to settle up. He said he had made a 
report to the department and supposed I would find it at Washington. 
I cannot find it, because it could not be produced in the department, as 
I tried it on Friday. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of what was done with any of it on the 
road to Asheville? — A. The wagoner said they drank about half a barrel 
of it. 

Q. Was any of it sold ? — A. Well, it was on the road they sold it. 

Q. That is what I mean? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How nuich did they sell on the road? — A. Three barrels were 
turned (mt in one week. 

Q. Peddled out as they went along? — A. They had it on the road 
before they started. 

Q. Did they sell it in bulk or peddle it out? — A. Mr. John Eowland 
said he got a quart and paid fifty cents for it. They sold it to anybody 
who wanted it. 

Q. You were there a portion of the time when the still was running? — 
A. Yes, sir; I was there until it suspended. 

Q. Was there not reason to suppose that the deficiency arose from 
the unskillfulness or ignorance of the distiller '? — A. No, sir; we had one 
of the best distillers in that >\'hole country. He was one of the greatest 
blockiiders, and thej" indiitted him and got him out of the business to 
get him to distill in a legal distillery. Jack Grant made the best whisk v. 

Q. Did the store-keeper, Howell, make any pretense that Grant was 
•cheating? — A. No; I do not know that he did. 
S. Mis. 110 17 



258 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Did he make auy pretense that you or your son were smuggling'? — 
A. No; the corn was all furnished and the whisky made. Grant said 
the full capacity was made; and the old man, Hoyle, he distilled one- 
month — in September. He had McDonnel who furnished the meal and 
wood, and put down every day's work, and it went largely over the . 
capacity. 

Q. And Mr. Axley j)romised you to have Mr. Howell removed? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. But he never did if? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did youjknow whether your complaint of Mr. Howell ever reached 
as far as the ears of Collector Mott? — A. I do not know. 

Q. You complained to Mr. Axley ? — A. My son was directed to enter 
his complaint before Deputy Collector Axley. 

Q. Did you hear anything about Howell's pay being kept back by 
the department for this deficiency ? — A. Yes, sir. He showed me a 
letter from Dr. Mott that he would retain his pay for the month of May 
for the deficiency in the distillery of John M. Taylor, and Mr. Howell 
said that I and Grant, and my son, must give a certificate that the 
deficiency was not on his account. We did not give the certificate ;; 
and he said " he would blow us to hell." 

Q. He tried to force you to give a certificate ? — A. Yes, sir. We did 
not give it, and did not get blowed there. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. Why did n'ot your son pay that $100 and stop all these proceed- 
ings '? — A. Because the deficiency was made by a government ofiicery 
and he was notified that he was responsible for the deficiency himself. 

Q. Your son could have stopped all these proceedings upon a mo- 
ment by paying that $1001 — A. I guess he could. 

Q. What did the fixtures sell for 1 — A. I do not know. 

Q. You heard somebody say, did you not f — A. No. 

Q. Did not your son attend the sale ? — A. Yes ; my son was there. 

Q. Nearly everything was sold ; you report that everything was 
sold ; did not you hear what your son said they were sold for ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. You never heard anybody say what the still sold for ? — A. No. 

Q. Did it sell for less than it was worth *? — A. I cannot tell that. I do» 
not know what it brought. 

Q. Did your son complain that it sold for less than it was worth ? — 
A. What he complained about was, the hogs that he had been selling 
for $10 a head brought 37^ cents all around. 

Q. And he had been paying $10 for them ? — A. He had sold them 
for $10 to Mr. Ferguson. 

Q. How many hogs did he have? — A. One hundred and fifty; I guess. 

Q. He lost more on the hogs, then, than $100 would have amounted 
to 1 — A. I guess he did. 

Q. Who bought the hogs ? — A. Mr. Bell bought a portion, and Mr. 
Tathum — two men running distilleries. 

Q. Did not they buy them in for your son ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How do you know they did not ? — A. Because he has had none 
since. 

Q. He has had none since? — A. My son never owned a hog since. 

Q. Could not your son have sold these hogs at private sale, and paid 
this tax very easily ? — A. He might have done it, but he would not do 
it, because the deficiency was caused by the government ofdcer. 

Q. So your son set himself up to fight the government and take the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 259 

consequences'? — A, I do not know wbetlier that was the government; 
it was that department, or meinbeis of the government, or officers. 

Q. And he was determined to sink tlie whole thing ratlier than pay 
that 1 100? — A. He was determined to see the bottom of it. 

Q. Yon Icnow what the hogs were sold for, and know what tliey were 
worth, but have no idea what the still sold for? — A. No; I do not. 

Q. What else was sold ? — A. The tubs and everything about it. 

Q. Have you an idea what they sold for ? — A. No ; I do not know. 

Q. Who bought them ? — A. Mr. Moss. 

Q. Who was Mr. Moss 1 — A. He was the ganger. 

Q. At the time what else was sold ; any corn ? — A. No. 

Q. You do not know what the tubs sold for? — A. No. 

Q. But you know who bought them ? — A. Mr. Moss got them. 

Q. Who bought the still "? — A. He got one of the stills. 

Q. You do not know what he paid for it? — A. No. 

Q. Have you ever heard anybody say what he paid for it ? — A. No. 
sir. 

Q. You said there were three sales of whisky f — A. I was informed 
by Mr. Axley that there was. I was uever at one of them. 

Q. Do you know what the whiskj' sold for at these sales ? — A. Mr. 
Axley said 92 and 93 cents. 

Q. Do you know how much was sold? — A. No ; I do not. 

Q. Could not your son have withdrawn the whisky, sold it, and paid 
that tax easy enough at any time *? — A. Yes; but he did not propose to 
do it. 

Q. Did not the distiller make regular returns uj^on forms — do yon 
know anything about the forms'? — A. No; I do TU)t know anything 
about them. 

Q. Do you know whether the distiller made returns on form 14? — A. 
J do not know anything about their forms. 

Q. And 88 and 88i ? — A. My sou and they made out their papers. 

Q. Did yon ever hear anybody allege that these forms were not com 
plied with ; that proper returns were not made. Did anybody say that 
proper returns were not made'? — A. Idouotknow. The proper returns 
of the distillery ? 

Q. Yes, sir ; did you ever hear anybody say that they did not make 
proper returns ! — A. I heard no complaint about that ; only about the 
deficiency every month. 

Q. How far was this from Statesville? — A. I cannot tell. It is 124 
miles from Ashville. 

Q. Is it not at least 300 miles from Statesville? — A. I cannot tell. 

Q. How far is it from Murphy '? — A. Thirteen miles east. 

Q. How far is it from the public road ? — A. About three miles. 

Q. Why did your son start up three miles from the public road'? — A. 
So as to be near wood and water. 

Q. Did he mean to make a regular business of distilling? — A. He did 
while he ran it. 

Q. Did he sell whisky along from time to time, while distilling? — A. 
He would take out a barrel occasionally and tax-pay it. 

Q. How old was he? — A. He was over 21. He was born in 1859. 

Q. Was this still located in the Indian country, among the Cherokee 
Indians? — A. Oh, no. 

Q. You are a Cherokee yourself, are you not? — A. Part. 

Q. You claim to belong to the tribe? — A. I am so recognized. 

Q. And you state you and your son were under the impression that 



260 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EE VENUE IN 

the store-keeper, Mr. Howell, was liable for any deficiency that would 
occur? — A. He notified him l3y the department letter. 

Q. Did you see the letter ? — A. I heard him read it ; I did not take 
it in my hand to look at it. 

Q. Yon heard who read if? — A. Mr. Howell, and Mr. Axley after- 
wards told me it was the case ; he said that all gangers were liable for 
deficiencies in small distdleries. 

Q. Gangers were liable for deficiencies in small di;.itilleries ; was that 
in the letter ? — A. Mr. Axley said it was. 

Q. What was in the letter? — A. He read that a ganger was liable 
for the deficiency. 

Q. Suppose the deficiency had occurred by leakage. Was the ganger 
to be liable, according to that letter? — A. The deficiency occurred in 
the cistern -room. 

Q. Did the letter say he was liable only for the deficiency in- the 
cistern room? — A. For the deficiency was what the letter said. 

Q. Deficiencies occur by leakage sometimes, do they not? — A. I can- 
not tell. The barrels were very good in the cistern-room. 

Q. By whom was this letter said to be written ? — A. I did not see. 
I do not know. 

Q. Yon do not know by whom ? — A. No. 

Q. Then you mean to state that Mr. Howell took a piece of paper 
and said it was a letter and read it to you? — A. He said it was from 
the department — the collector's office — and Mr. Axley said the same. 

Q. Why did you not pay that $100 for your son, and stop all this 
trouble? — A. I did not intend to do it, when it was occasioned by the 
store- keeper. 

Q. You were entirely able to do it? — A. Yes, sir; I could have 
done it. 

Q. Without any inconvenience ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The reason why you did not do it was that you wanted Mr. 
Howell to pay it? — A. We did not want him there at the start. He 
was not a proper man. 

Q. Why not a proper man ? — A. He would get drunk and cut up 
generally. 

Q. Dio you ever report to the collector's office that he got drunk ? — 
A. Yes, sir; and Mr. Axley knew it, and knew his character; that he 
was a drinking man. 

Q. Did you ever report it to the collector's office ? — A. I did. 

Q. That he got drunk?— A. I reported it to Mr. Axley. 

Q. Mr. Axley was the deputy, was he not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Ju that section of the country ? — A. In May he went off and left 
. the cistern-room unlocked from Monday until Tuesday. 

Q. Did you re[)ort that fact to Mr. Axley ? — A. I did. 

Q. What did Mr. Axley say ? — A. He said nothing about it. 

Q. Di<l he not make any rei)ly whatever to you when you reported 
it ? — A. He said he, would have hinl removed and get another man, 
and talk to him about it. 

Q. How long was Mr. Howell there"? — A. He was there from Febru- 
ary to October — it was the last of Sei)tember. 

Q. Where were you then ? — A. I was there from the time they com- 
menced up to the time they suspended, and then I went West. 

Q. Did 1 understand you correctly to say that Mr. Howell was in the 
habit of going boldly before your face and taking that whisky out 
and using it to treat his friends with? — A. I have seen him do it from 
the time he first commenced. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 261 

Q. Wliat (lid you say to hiiu about it? — A. I •com])lained to Mr. Ax- 
ley about it. 

*Q. Did you uot coinplaiu to Mr. Howell that he oujilit iu)t todo it ? — 
A. 1 tohl iiini time au(l tiuu' aji'aiu that my sou couhl uot staud such 
wastaji'e as that. 

Q. What <lid lie say ? — A. He said there was uot uiuch wasted; he 
Duly divided a little with his frieuds. 

Q. Did you uot kuow theu, aud do you uot kuow uow, that the dis- 
tiller himself was violatiuft- the reveuue laws of the couutry iu uot re- 
l)ortiuj:' sueh eouduet? — A. I did it every tiuie 1 saw Mr. Axley. 

Q. You re])orted it every tiuie to Mr. Axley "^ — A. Yes, sir; aud uot 
only that, but made a])plieatiou to Mr. Williams to get a gauj^erout of 
his district. 

r>y the CirAiK'MAN : 
Q. Who was Mr. WMlliams ?— A. He is at Asheville. 1 tried to get 
au old experieuced ganger — Mr. Ilildebraud, aud had his jnomise that 
he would come, but Mr. Axley uever uuule the change, aud so we could 
not get another. 

By Mr. Tool : 

Q. Y^ou said something about that warehouse being broken uj) by a 
couple of negroes. — A. No; one was a colored man and one was a 
white man. 

Q. They were uot revenue oflHcers'? — A. No. 

Q. Why did not your son go and mend up the house, or yon your- 
self, when you found it was broken into"? — A. He was not there when 
it was done. I got back from the West iu January. 

Q. Why did not your son have it mended ! — A. It was in charge of 
Mr. Axley. He took charge of it. 

Q. How long before you reported the breaking into to Mr. Axley? — 
A. 1 reported it as soon as I got houu; and learned of it. 

Q. How long after the breakage took ])lace ? — A. A month or such a 
matter. 

■ Q. So you let it stand broken open a whole season, did you not t — A. 
Mr. Axley knew it. 

Q. How do you know Mr. Axley knew it?— A. My sou said he had 
written to him about it and gave him the information. 

Q. Wliatiuterestdid you have personally in this distillery?— A. None 
whatever, nothing. 

Q. How far do you live from there ? — A. About three miles away. 

Q. How far did' your sou live away? — A. He built a house some two 
hundred yards from the distillery after he commenced. 

Q. Aud you had no interest in it at all yourself? — A. None whatever. 

The Chairman. I tind another ])a])er setting forth the amount of 
taxes; will you see if that is iu Mr. Axley's handwriting (handing paper 
to. witness)? — A. (Examining.) Yes, sir; that is his handwriting. 

Q. Wlu)m did you get this froui? — A. 1 do not kuow. 1 found that 
in the papers. 

The Chairman. I will offer it in evidence. (Reading.) 

J. M. Taylor : 

Siu: Yon am notifiefl tliat. on Mie21.st day of Fob'y, 1881, at distniery waielioH.se, No. 
139:5, of .]. M. Taylor, 1 will Htll all tlie whiskey on deposit in said warehou.so. Also 
224 acres oi' land. No. 21, in 7 dist., seized as tlii' property of .). M. Taylor ni)on war- 
rant of distraint for tlie fo]l(*\vintl taxes: 

Deft, spirits, Dec. 1H79. May list. Aint, 29.99, int. & penalty to he added. 

Deft. " Feb., I8H0. An'^'st list. Anit. 17.57, int. & peinilty to be ailded. 

Defr. spirits, Jau., 1880. May list. Anit. 8.22, int. &■ [lenalty to be added. 



262 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

30 gall, p'k'g. June list. Amt. 27.00, int. & penalty to be added. 

Deft, spirits, Mar. 1880. S'pt list. Amt. 28.88, int. '&. penalty to be added. 

* " Apr. Oct. " " 89.55, " " " ' " 

Will be sold at the time and place specified unless paid by that time — Jan. 14, 1881. 

F. P. AXLEY, 
Deputy Coll. 10 Dis., 6ih Bist. N. C. 

W. J. CoiTE recalled and examination resumed. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. In regard to the matter just gone into by tliis witness, you 
have heard the statement of Mr. Taylor in regard to this matter. Will 
you please tell what you know about it. — Answer. I have heard his 
statement, and it was entirely an internal revenue business transaction — 
the whole thing. The assessments were made by the Commissioner of 
Internal Revenue from reports by Mr. Taylor himself, or the distiller to 
the Commissioner of Internal Eevenue ; and they were also based upon 
reports made by the store-keeper and ganger of the material used and 
the amount of whisky produced. Those assessments were made in the 
Commissioner's office and were sent down to Dr. Mott to be collected, 
and he collected them. Payment was refused, and he had to have re- 
course to distraint through his deputy, Mr. Axley. Mr. Taylor has 
made a statement that he could not find a record of the seizure. If he 
will go to the assessment division in the department he will find there 
a record of the whole transaction. 

Q. And returns of the sales and all ? — A. Yes, sir ; returns of the 
assessments paid by the jjroceeds of tbe sales. 

Q. What office did you say that was ; the assessment office ? — A. In 
the assessment division, on the lists 23 A and B. The lists are made 
by the Commissioner and records made there of the ])ayment of all these 
taxes, and everything will be found there. As to that subsequent sale 
of spirits under the act of March, 1879, the tax was demanded for the 
original amount placed in the warehouse, by reason of excessive leak- 
age. It was all done according to law. Payment was refused, the 
spirits were sold, the taxes paid, and returns made to the same division 
on the assessment list. It will all be found there, I think. As to Mr. 
Taylor's statement in regard to the store-keeper, I have no knowledge 
of any information being received from Mr. Axley as to Mr. Howell — 
his incapacity, drunkenness, or auythiug of that sort, but I do know 
when Dr. Mott did receive such a statement and report from Mr. Axley. 
He relieved Mr. Howell and put Mr. Moss in charge. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Axley personally ? — A. I do, sir. I have seen 
him three times in my life. He lives three or four hundred miles from 
Statesville. 

Q. It is away out on these western mountains? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is he a good officer ? — A. He is a very efficient officer. He has a 
very good knowledge of the revenue law and its details, but we have 
had some complaints to make in the office in respect to his dilatoriness 
in enforcing these collections. He is not arbitrary. He gets along 
easily, and Collector Mott has found fault with him for being too easy 
with them, and at the same time desiring to perform his duty prop- 
erly. 

Q. Is he an honest, upright man 1 — A. I have no reason to doubt his 
honesty or ux)rightness. I think he is well esteemed in the community 
from which he was appointed. 

Q. You said this was an internal revenue transaction, just now. 
What do you mean by that? — A. That there was no personality about 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 263 

it, uothing persoual in it. It was an internal revenue business trans- 
acted under the laws and regulations of the Internal Revenue Bu- 
reau. 

Q. You mean to say upon the reports made on form 14 by the dis- 
tillers themselves? — A. The distillers themselves. 

Q. To the bureau in Washington and theassessment was made here'? 
— A. Yes, sir ; at Washington. 

Q. Dr. Mott had nothing to do with that ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. It was sent down to Dr. Mott to collect, just as a sheriff collects 
a debt, and he had nothing to do but to obey that order ?— A. To make 
the collection, that is all. 

Q. From the relation Mr. Taylor has given here, was that the usual 
course pursued in making collections ?— A. Except in one sense, that a 
greater delay was made than necessary by Mr. Axley, and that Dr. Mott 
commented upon his conduct that he delayed it too long, three or four 
months' assessments standing on what we call the assessment list and 
charged against Dr. Mott, because not collected. * I remember onetime 
he was quite indignant at Mr. Axley because he had not made collec- 
tions before. 

Q. You did not mean in this particular case ?— A. I^ot in this par- 
ticular case, but in others. 

Q. But you sav in this particular case there was remissness on the 
part of Mr. Axley "?— A. Not remissness ; but simply delay in order not 
to ])ress the distiller and to drive him to the sale of his property ar- 
bitrarily. He was given every opportunity to explain or put in forms 
for the abatement of the taxes, and my belief is he refused even to do 
that. 

Q. You say these complaints Mr. Taylor speaks of, relating to Mr. 
Howell, did not reach the office at Statesville ?— A. I knew nothing of 
it. I never heard of it until Dr. Mott removed Mr. Howell and put Mr. 
Moss in his place. It may have been reported to Mr. Axley, but Mr. 
Axley did not report that to his superior officer, Dr. Mott, that I know of. 

Q. How long has Mr. Howell been a ganger ?— A. My impression is 
that he was a store- keeper or ganger in the old seventh district before 
■consolidation ; in other words, he was an old experienced hand at the 
business. 

Q. Under Mr. Rollins in the seventh district?— A. I think so. 

Q. How long was he in office under Dr. Mott f— A. I think he was 
appointed soon after the consolidation, if not immediately upon it. 

Q. When did the consolidation take place ?— A. I think in 1879; I 
may be wrong as to the year. 

Q. Was Mr. Howell assigned to other distilleries?— A. I cannot tell 
without reference to the record ; but I think he had been. 

Q. Did you ever hear any complaint of him before 1 — A. No, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. wiio is the chief of the assessment department ?— A. C. A. Bates. 

Q. You have never examined for these papers you speak of, in the 
departments, have you ?— A. No, sir ; I simply know the usual course 
they go through. 

Q. You swear very confidently that they are all there ?— A. As nearly 
as I can swear to anything without having seen them ; that it is all 
right, that in the usual course they are there. 

Q. You say this whole transaction was an internal revenue transac- 
tion and the usual course was pursued !— A. The regular course under 
^he law and regulations of the act of March, 1879. 



264 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Is it according to the usual course of the revenue department for 
a store-keeper to take liquor at liis will and pleasure out of the cistern- 
room to treat his friends M'ith and carry it off as he pleases? — A. No,- 
sir, it is not ; and when known they are dismissed. 

Q. Is it the usual course when complaints have been made to the 
deputy collector, for him to keep the reports to himself, and not for- 
ward them ? — A. He should report them to his superior officer. 

Q. Immediately ? — A. Unless he has some reason unknown to the 
office for keeping' it to himself. 

Q. You say Mr. Axley's character is good? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you ever seen him? — A. Yes, sir; twice or three times iu- 
my life. 

Q. Where ?— A. In States vi lie. 

Q. Do you know anything as to what his neighbors say about him ? — 
A. I simply know that when appointed he received the indorsements 
of a great many of his neighbors, as to being a man of integrity and 
standing. 

Q. He came up with a petition ; that is all you know about his char- 
acter, signed by some of his neighbors'? — A, That is about all; he re- 
ceived the api)ointmeut in that form probably. 

Q. Do you know why Mr. Howell's pay was kept back ? — A. Yes, sir.. 

Q. Why ? — A. His April pay was kept back on a. report made by 
Mr. Axley, which led to the removal of Mr. Howell, and the substitu- 
tion of Mr. Moss; accompanying that report of Mr. Howell it said he 
was to a certain extent responsible for the loss of some of the liquor,^ 
or at least the assessment that was made, and pursuing a precedent 
that had been made by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue in similar 
cases, his pay was delayed for an explanation from him. The case is 
now before the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, I think. 

Q. You say it was ascertained that to some extent he was responsible t 
— A. Not ascertained, but reported. 

Q. Who reported it ? — A. Mr. Axley. 

Q. Is it usual, when a deputy collector reports that the store-keeper 
has been in fault, and wasted the liquor, to sell the man out, root and 
branch, notwithstanding; is that internal revenue business? — A. It is 
internal revenue business, so far as the law is concerned and the fulfill- 
ment of the requirements of the regulations. He was given an oi)por- 
tunity to explain, and no explanation was made. 

Q. Who was given the opportunitv to explain ? — A. Mr. Taylor and 
Mr. Howell. 

Q. But Mr. Taylor had nothing to explain. Mr. Howell had. Mr» 
Taylor was making the complaint, and Mr. Howell was the man to make 
the explanation, but, instead of your waiting for that, you sold him out,, 
and you say that is the regular course of business in the Internal Rev- 
enue Department ? — A. In that case it was, for the simple reason that 
the department bad made a demand on him for fully a year for the pay- 
ment of the taxes, and, as a last resort, he made a complaijit, as we con- 
sidered it, to delay the payment, on the store-keeper. 

Q. But it seems, according to Mr. Taylor's testimony, that he com- 
plained at the very start that there was a deficiency to Mr. Axley? — 
A. This is his testimony, but there is no evidence of it excei)t that. 

Q. That is better than where theie is no evidence. You have no evi- 
dence to the contrary ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Is it the usual and regular cQurse of business for the Internal 
Revenue Department to seize a man's warehouse, take charge of his- 
liquor, and hold liim responsible for the waste that occurs after that? — 
A. For the wastage of the liquor? 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA, 265 

Q. Yes. — A. No, sir; 1 doubt whether any wastage has occurretL 
I think that liquor was sohl a^'cording to lawj and the proceeds turned 
in for the i)a.yni('nt of the taxes on tlie liquor. 

Q. Did you not hear read that Mr. Axley required Mr. Taylor, in 
March, 1881 — the liquor was seized in January ])receding — to come for- 
ward and tax pay and remove certain i)ackages, or he would be held 
resi)onsible for wastage? — A. That was another case entirely. The first 
liquor was seized for the assessment for deficiency. The second notice,. 
in March, i)robably, was for excessive leakage, and the assessment was 
made at different times, under different circumstances, under the law of 
March, 1879 — a new law 

Q. I do not care what law it was under. — A. But it was two differ- 
ent cases. 

Q, I do not care how many cases. There might be one hundred. If 
the government seized the liquor, and the man had no right or au- 
thority to enter his OAvn warehouse, does the government hold him re- 
sponsible for leakage or wastage ? — A. The warehouse had not been 
seized at that time. 

Q. Then you contradict the notice. They were all in the same ware- 
house. 

Mr. Taylor. And all the same liquor. 

The Chairman. (Handing i)aper to witness and reading:) "Janu- 
ary 14, 1881 ; seized as the property of J. M. Taylor, u])on warrant of 
distraint for the following taxes." Now, the other notice about the 
wastage was March 11, 1881, two and a half months afterwards. The 
former is a notice of the seizure of the liquor on January 14, 1881, and 
here on March 11, 1881, in the latter notice it says (Quoting): "By 
direction of J. J. Mott, collector sixth district, you are required, by the 
first day of April, 1881, to withdraw from your warehouse, on account 
of excessive wastage, casks Nos. 5, 8, 9, 10," &c.— A. That is exactly 
what I say this was. 

Q. But it was all seized, was it not"? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Does not that notice say so? — A. Only a certain portion. 

Q. (Quoting:) 

You are luitified .that nu tbe 'ilst day of Feluuary, 1881, at distillery warehouse, No- 
139;i, of J. M. Taylor, I will sell all the'wbisky on deposit in said ware- lionse ; also 224 
acres of land, No. 21, in 7ih district, seized as the property of J.M. Taylor, upon 
varrant of distraint for the following taxes. 

A. It was not seized. 

Q. If that was all the whisky deposited in said warehouse, what was 
this notice of March 11 for 1 — A. That was for the balance of the pack- 
ages specified there that had leaked out; and for that an amount was 
allowed by the government for leakage in a certain space of time. 
There is a table which allows a certain leakage, but this was what was 
called excessive leakage, and when excessive leakage occurs the tax is 
demanded. This other notice refers to the assessment for deficiency. 

Q. It says that all the liquor was seized. You mean to say that was 
the balance ? — A. It was not all seized. This notice of January 14 is 
simply a notice of sale ; that it would be sold for the taxes not paid. 

Q. if it all was to be sold, therefore it was all seized. Now, Mr. Tay- 
lor could not enter that wareliouse after the 14th day of January ? — A. 
Satisfaction was made for the amount by the sale in that first notice, 
probably, for these assessments that were made. This licpior in the 
notice of March 11 was remaining in the warehouse after tliis sale was 
made. 

Q. How do you know that? — A. By the terms of the notice, " On 



266 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EE VENUE IN 

account of excessive leakage," of what was not sold at that time. I 
know some sale was made, and these assessments satisfied. These pack- 
ages were found to contain less whisky than was put in originally. In 
other words, excessive leakage had occurred, after the sale and the 
residue of the taxes were demanded on it. 

Q. After the liquor was two and a half mouths, or nearly so, in pos- 
session of the government officer, assessment is required for wastage 
before he got hold of if? — A. This thing had been satisfied at the time, 
the debt satisfied, leaving this amount remaining in the warehouse. 

Q. This first advertisement which I introduced shows that the whisky 
was not sold at that time. (Reading :) 

INTERNAL REVENUE SALE POSTPONED. 

I will sell for cash to the highest bidder, at distillery warehouse, No. 1393, of J. M. 
Taylor, on the '2l8t day of February, 1881, all the whisky ou deposit iu said warehouse, 
subject ti> the taxes due the government. 

Also, 224 acres of land, on same day, at residence of H. A. Moss, in Valleytown town- 
ship, known as tract No. 21, in 7th district, seized as the property of J. M. Taylor, by 
virtue of a warrant of distraint in my hand against said Taylor for internal revenue 
taxes, interest, & penalty. This 14th day of Feb'v, 1881. 

F. P. AXLEY, 
Deputy CoU'r, 6th Dist. N. C. 

So you see the sale was postponed and the whisky seized there was 
not sold at that time. Now, how do you make this man responsible 
for the wastage, «&c., when it was in the hands of the government? — A. 
It is a question whether it was in the hands of the government. 

Q. Was it not in the hands of the government when an officer had 
seized and closed it up and had taken the key ? — A. I do not think 
there was auy seizure, but a simple notice of sale. 

Q. The officer says he did seize it. — A. I do not think it was taken 
to Asheville. It was in December last. The case is simply one of 
refusal on the part of the distiller to pay the just dues which the gov- 
ernment had against him, and it was an endeavor on the part of the 
•deputy collector, Mr. Axley, to collect those amounts, and it was his 
mode of procedure by putting in different notices. Of course, I cannot 
explain it, but that is the whole sum and substance of it. It was 
purely an internal revenue transaction of that nature. 

Q. Do you think there were not some grounds for believing that 
these deficiencies were caused by Mr. Howell's conduct ?— A. Only 
iipon the report of Mr. Axley. 

Q. Was that ever investigated I — A. Yes, sir; it has been. 

Q. Where is the report of that investigation ? — A. I do not know 
where it is. 

Q. Have you not seen it? — A. No, sir; I know that the Commissioner 
■of Internal Revenue had the matter reported to him; that there were 
grounds for believing that, and he has ordered the check to be retained — 
that April check, and it has never been solved or determined yet. 

Q. Whether he was to be blamed for it or not? — A. No, sir; and the 
<;heck still remains in the office of the internal revenue at Statesville. 

Q. He has never been paid ? — A. No. 

Q.'Do you know why that matter has never been determined? — A. 
I do not. I know the investigation has been entered upon. 

Q. Do you not think it ought to be determined, and if Mr. Taylor 
was not to be blamed, but Howell was, that justice should be done in the 
premises ? — A. Yes, sir ; and my impression is that it has been investi- 
gated several times, but no determination ever arrived at; and, by the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 267 

way. we have sent over there within the hist two months an officer to 
iinvestigate that i(lentic{\l case, Mr. Sullivan, a deputy. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Suppose it turned out upon investigation by the Commissioner of 
Internal Revenue that ^Ir. Howell was to blame for the deficiency here, 
wouhl you then pay Howell his salary at all ? — A. In similar cases they 
liave withheld the salary of the store keepers and ordered it to be a})- 
plied for the payment of assessments against a distiller. 

Q. Was that not the remedy of Mr. Taylor to pay the taxes, so as to 
relieve his li(pn)r, and stills,' and so on, and await the results of an in- 
vestigation as to Mr. Howell "? — A. His remedy, in the first place, was to 
put in what we call a claim for the abatement of taxes, and, as I un- 
derstand, it was never dojie. Then, if the Commissionel- had reason to 
believe that he was not responsible for the deficiency, he would have 
relieved him of it. 

Q. He ought, then, to have paid the tax and applied for relief! — A. 
First applied for an abatement of the taxes, and then, if not abated, 
his next move would have been to have paid the taxes and applied for 
a refunding of them. 

Q. The law provides a remedy in such cases f — A. The law is very 
explicit on that point. 

Q. It provides a remedy for just such cases ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Taylor did not avail himself of that remedy ? — A. I have 
never known of his having done so. 

Q. He has rather stood out and let this thing go on before his eyes ? 
— A. That is about the idea of it. 

Q. Something was said about a notice of withdrawing on account of 
excessive leakage. When excessive leakage occurs in a warehouse, 
does not the law authorize the collector to give notice to the distiller, 
and compel him to withdraw and pay taxes? — A. That is the law of 
March 18, 1879. 

Q. This was not a case of seizure at all 1 — A. Simply of distraint for 
taxes, not seizure. 

Q. It is not a seizure when the liquor remains still in the warehouse? 
— A. Unless there is some illegal act of the distiller in connection 
with the liquor, it is not called a seizure, but simply a distraint for the 
taxes upon an assessment. 

Q. That is what jou mean when you said the liquor was not seized. 
The notice the chairman read to you was only that he should withdraw 
under the act of 1879 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Because it was leaking? — Because it had leaked excessively. 

Q. And that was a legal notice ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had it no application to any of the packages that had not leaked? 
— A. No, sir; only to those that leaked excessively, and they were 
designated. 

Q. In the notice he read? — A. In the notice. 

Q. This matter of Mr. Howell is still pending before the Commis- 
sioner of Internal Eevenue ? — A. As to his liability, yes, sir ; for this 
matter. 

Q. And in the last few months you have sent a deputy down there to 
look into it ? — A. The one who is now investigating, that I spoke of. 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. We sent Mr. Sullivan as a special agent to investi- 
gate that case, and one other that 1 forget, of a similar nature. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You still say it was not a seizure ? — A. Simply a distraint for 



268 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



I 

! 1 



taxes. I make a distinction between a seizure for fraud and a distraint 
for taxes. 

Q. Notwithstanding tbe deputy says lie had seized the property ? — 
A. I cannot explain his use of that word. I do not think it was i)rop- 
erly used in that connection. 

Q. Was it not Mr. Axley's place to protect the distiller as well as 
the government ? — A. Certainly 5 and I think he did it by delaying 
the collection of this assessment. 

Q. Was it not Mr. Axley's duty to tell Mr. Taylor, after Howell was 
accused, to put in an abatement claim so that the taxes would be re- 
moved f — A. I think he did do it. 

Q. What makes you think so? — A. If he did his duty in this respect. 
He has put in abatement claims in other cases in his own division. 

Q. Because it was Mr. Axley's duty to do so, and you have known 
him to do that in other cases, does that enable you to swear that he 
did it in this case f — A. IsTo, sir ; he did not. 

Q. You said you thought he did ? — A. I said he presented the case 
to put in an abatement claim, and my impression is it was refused by 
the distiller. That was our impression at the office. 

Q. Though you have no ground for that except the consideration of 
"what the deputy collector ought to have done 1 — A. The usual course 
in such cases ; yes, sir. 

J. Taylor recalled, and cross-examination resumed. 

By Mr. Pool : 

■Question. Did Dr. Mott tell you the proper course for your son to. 
pursue, to put in an abatement claim or a refunding claim 1 — Answer. 
Not a word of that have I heard from him. 

Q. Did not you and the doctor have a talk in Washington about it ? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Wliat did he advise you to do ? — A. I wished to have a settlement^ 
but I never heard anything of an abatement from him. 

Q. What did he advise you to do"? — A. He advised me that the re- 
port would soon come up for the sale of the whisky. I wanted to know 
how much was seized, sold, and accounted for, and I never heard of 
any course of abatement. 

Q. Did not Mr. Axley tell your son to put in an abatement claim or 
pay the taxes '? — A. No, sir; I never heard of such a course. 

Q. That the law of 1879 required him to put in an abatement claim 
under these circumstances ? — A. I never heard of it. 

Q. Did he not tell you when he failed to do that to put in a claim of 
refunding, and that would remedy the matter — to pay the taxes and, 
put in a claim for refunding"? — A. No ; all he insisted upon was the taxes, 
and my son resisted because the deficiency was not on his account. 

Q. Why does not your son put in a refunding claim now under the law ? 
It is not too late yet. — A. We have asked for the whisky account, and 
we cannot get any account — how much was sold, how much was seized. 
We have the ganger's account of 1,450 gallons, but no account for the, 
other three sales. 

Q. Do you know how much you had ? — A. No. 

Q. You do not know how much you had f — A. No ; they kept draw- 
ing it out from week to week. They would get out a barrel or some- 
times a hundred gallons at a time. I do not know how much remained. 

Q. Why do you not go to the department and get a report"? — A. I 
have been to the department twice. They have nothing of the kind j 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 269 

they say tluit it bas not beeu reported from Dr. Mott's office. I could 
not iiiui ont last Friday. 1 was instrncted by Mr. Cooper that if I could 
not get any stateiiieiit at all, to lay it before the Vance committee. 

Q. Did you know before that Mr. Bates had charge of it? — A. Yes, 
sir; when I lirst went to Mr. Kaum he sent me to Mr. Bates, some 
months ago. Mott first named it to me, and I went to Mr. Rogers and 
could not find out how much whisky was seized nor the sales made. 

Q, That was last winter? — A. Some two months ago. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott seem to take an interest and try to help you about 
the matter"? — A. He said as soon as the report from Mr. Axley came it 
would be at his office, and he promised to have it forwarded. Mr. 
Cooper said he would give an investigation into the matter, but recom- 
mended that I put it before this committee if I did not get satisfaction 
through the department. He wanted the brush cleaned out before he 
went in. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When did you see Dr. Mott on this subject in this city ? — A. 
Some time last winter. 

Q. The whisky had all been sold then ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The thing was all over? — Yes, sir. 

Q. You did go to Mr. Bates ? — A. I went to Mr. Raum and he sent 
me to Mr. Bates. 

Q. Mr. Bates looked, or pretended to look, into it? — A. They looked 
over the books, but could not find the report of the sales, or the amount 
of the whisky seized, or what it was seized for. 

Committee adjourned until Wednesday, July 12, at 10 o'clock a. m. 



Washington, D. C, July 12, 1882. 

The committee met at 10 a. m. 

The following witnesses were called in behalf of Dr. Mott: 

J. B. Lanier sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. I reside in Salisbury, N. 0. 

Q. What is your age" — A. Forty-two. 

Q. What occupation are you in now ? — A. A tobacco manufacturer 
and distiller. 

Q. Where is your distillery situated? — A. About two miles from Salis- 
bury, 

Q. How long have you been a distiller? — A. I have been distilling 
continuously, wtih the exception of perhaps a few months, for the last 
ten years. I was distilling before that pretty much ever since the 
surrejitler, with the exception of two or three years. 

Q. I will call your attention to the time when Mr. Bruner was a store- 
keeper at your distillery. — X. Yes, sir. 

Q. I understood Mr. Bruner to state that you gave your distiller an 
order to have more mash i)ut in than you were authorized by law to do, 
and that he had to interfere with it. — A. I would like very much, if I 
could, to hear what are the exact words of Mr. Bruner. I can just say 
that I gave no such order. 

Q. Did you issue an order to have more mash put in than you were 



270 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

authorized by law to do? — A. No, sir; I am certain I did uot do any 
such thing as that. 

Q. Did you make any proposition to Mr.Bruner to allow you — to wink: 
at your acting in an illegal way at that distillery? — A. I have never 
had but two conversations with Mr. Bruner the whole time he was at 
my distillery. I am scarcely ever at the distillery. I suppose I do not 
average going there more than once a month ; and I do not think there 
were any words ever passed between us but once or twice. 

Q. Answer the question as to those two conversations. — A. Do yon. 
want to know the conversations? 

Q. Certainly. — A. Mr. Bruner was in the habit — helived at Salisbury, 
but the distillery was about two miles from town, perhaps a little more — 
in the habit of going down there verj'^ late in the morning, 9 o'clock, 
perhaps later, never before 8, and would leave from Ito 2 aud 3 o'clock,, 
I never knew of him being there after 3 o'clock. I showed him a copy 
of the regulations; that it was against the law for me to run with- 
out a storekeeper; that he must come earlier and stay till the dis- 
tillery quit operations. A short time after that he came to me on 
the street — I was in conversation with a friend — and he told me he 
was going to Statesville in the morning, and would try to get Dr, 
Mott to transfer hiai to another distillery ; one that was aot in operation, 
but had a sufficient quantity of whisky in the warehouse to retain a 
storekeeper. I told him that would suit me very well. I did not like 
him nohow. In fact, that is the only conversation that I ever recollect 
taking place between us. He might have said "Good morning," or 
something like that. 

Q. You never made any proposition to him to wink at your operating 
your still in any unlawful way ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Why did you not like Bruner ? — A. I cannot say that I did really 
dislike the man. I did not like his style. Though I never showed any 
disposition to get him away or have a change made at all. It was all 
his own work. 

Q. What was there about his style as a ganger and storekeeper that 
you disliked ? — A. I did not think he was much of an ofi&cer. 

Q. One thing was that he did not go out soon enough in the morning^ 
and left early in the evening ? — A. I could remedy that very well. E 
cannot say that I had any particular reason for disliking the man, or 
that I disliked him very much. But I did not like the style of the maiu 

Q. He had been raised about town ? — A. Yes, sir ; he had. 

Q. Did he render you any assistance there at that time, helping yoa 
to make out the accounts, &c. ? — A. No, sir ; he never done a thing. 

Q. You could get nothing out of him of that sort ? — A. No, sir ; not 
a thing. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q. You say you were not at the distillery more than once a month ? — 
A. I might have gone there oftener when he was there, but since then 
I have uot averaged more than once a month. 

Q. Who did your business at the distillery ? — A. My distiller did. 

Q. What was the name of your distiller at that time ? — A. I was try- 
ing to think ; I cannot recollect to save my life. I had several young 
men. It was either McCuUoh or Martin. I cannot recollect which of 
the two. 

Q. Had you not been in the habit, with other storekeepers before Mr. 
Bruner, of making a double mash and putting in twice as much as the 
law allowed ? — A. If I had, I would not answer the question. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 271 

Q. You are at liberty to do that. I will ask you if you did not tell 
Mr. Bruner, the storekeeper alluded to, that you wished to have a 
double mash, and you had a beer well for that purpose? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did your distiller do that without your authority? — A. No, sir; 
not with my authority. We had a beer well there. Every bit of 
the beer passes throuj^h the beer well before it is distilled. 

Q. Did you not object to i>utting any beer into the beer well and 
taking it right out? — A. No, sir; it has to go into the still. That is in 
the operation of the distilling. It goes into the beer well and it is^ 
pumped from there. 

Q. Did any storekeeper ever divide his pay with you ? — A. Not a cent. 

Q. Did 30U have a distiller by the name of H. C. Owens? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. How long did he di.«'till for you ? — A. I think he was there perhaps- 
some eight or ten months. 

Q.. Why did you discharge him ? — A. I cannot tell you. My dis- 
tillery was stopped by the officers there last winter a year ago, a few 
days before Christmas; it was very freezing weather, and, not having 
any fires, the x)ipes froze and burst to jueces. We got the machinery in 
operation, fixed it upon Friday, and it burst again. I got the machin- 
ist at work, and about 12 o'clock Sunday I wanted him to go ahead and 
make a mash at once, and get a fire to keep from freezing the pipes ; 
but he refused to do it, and I discharged him. 

Q. On Sunday"? — A. 1 wanted him to go ahead and i)repare for 
Monday. 

Q. Did you know it was against the act of Congress to distill on Sun- 
day"? — A. Yes, sir; but I think under some circumstances distilling is^ 
allowed on Sunday to prevent loss. It was a very serious matter for 
me. Pie would not do it, and I discharged him. 

Q. Were you about the distillery when he was there, br was that 
when you were there about once a month ? — A. I cannot recollect. I 
think I was there a little oftener when he was there. There was two 
years that 1 was down on my plantation myself; but I was there a little 
oftener than recently. 

Q. Were you there at the time Mr. Eamsaj^ was storekeeper ? — A. At 
the time of this Owens business I really forget who was storekeeper at 
that time ; I have had so many. 

Q. Did you know that during Ramsay's stay there and previously^ 
that it had been the custom with the storekee[)er8, after they had 
weighed the day's supplies of one thing and another, to hang up the 
key in the cistern-room on a certain nail and go about their business? — 
A. I do not remember any such thing ; nothing of the kind. 

Q. Was there a nail where the key of the cistern-room hung! — A. 
Positively there was nothing of the kind. 

Q. You could not tell if you were not there ? — A. I am certain of it ; 
I say so positively. 

Q. You say you did not know of anything of the kind ; you did not 
know what the distiller and storekeeper did when you were away ? — A. 
No, sir ; but it is so absurd that there was nothing of the sort, I am sat- 
isfied ; though, as you say, it was not of my knowledge. 

Q. Was Owens a man of rei)utable character in every respect for a 
distiller? — A. He had borne a good character. 

Q. You did not discharge him for anything but refusing to obey you ? — 
A. i did not at the time, but I should have done so had it come to my 
knowledge what 1 heard afterwards. 



272 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENlE IN 

J. M. Leach sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Question. You reside in Lexington, N. C, I believe?— Answer. That 
is my home. 

Q. You are a lawyer by profession? — A. 1 am. 

Q. Are you well" acquainted about Salisbury? — A. Yes, sir; it is 
within half an hour's ride of my town, 16 miles away. 

Q. Do you know the citizens and the community well ? — A. I know 
some there; some I do not know. 

Q. Do you know the character of Wm. F. Henderson? — A. 1 think I 
do, sir. He resides in my town, 200 yards oif, and has for twenty years. 

Q. He resides in Lexington, the same town as you ? — A. Yes, sir ; the 
same place. 

Q. At one time was he a resident of Salisbury ap well? — A. He was 
assessor there, for some years, of the Internal Kevenue Department. 

Q. Please state Colonel Henderson's character ? — A. I think it is good. 

Q. You heard, of course, some charges that were referred to in the evi- 
dence here about a mule of Mr. Darr's? — A. Yes, sir; 1 know a good 
deal about that matter. 

Q. State what you know about it. — A. I state this : Mr. McCorkle, a 
•distinguished lawyer, and myself defended Colonel Henderson in that 
matter, and I also' defended another party — one Jerry Glover. 

Q, Mr. Henderson was accused of a very serious offense ? — A. He and 
his brother were accused of stealing a mule belonging to Henry Darr. 
I was one of Mr. Henderson's counsel. The case was removed by the 
prosecutor over to Forsyth, where it was tried. He was tried, and not 
only triumphantly acquitted, but there was no evidence against him. 
It amounted to nothing in effect. I also defended, at the same court, 
Jerry Glover, who really had stolen the mule belonging to Darr. I did 
the best I could for him, but he was convicted and whipped. I begged 
him off to flfreeu lashes instead of thirty-nine, as the law provided. It 
is proper that 1 should add here that David Henderson (as was in proof), 
a brother of Colonel Henderson, purchased the mule of Glover, for which 
he paid $30 or $40 in gold and about that much in greenbacks ; and the 
mule was in his possession, and this fact was brought out on the suit. 
There was not one particle of evidence connecting Colonel Henderson 
with the mule in any way. 

Q. It was a transaction between Mr. Glover and David Henderson ? — 
A. I stated that the money that was paid and proved there — $30 or $40 
in gold and about the same amount in greenbacks. I think about $60 
or $70 was paid for the male to Glover. 

Q. Did the prosecution against Colonel nenderson appear to be of a 
malicious character? — A. I moved, as his counsel, to subject the prose- 
cutor for the costs, because it was frivolous and malicious, and the court 
so decided. He had to pay a round sum. The case was removed twice, 
I think. About $2,000, or a little under, was the amount of the costs 
taxed to Darr. 

Q. It was moved several times by the prosection ? — A. By the prose- 
cution ; yes, sir. 

Q. Did it not appear to be persecuting- the man instead of trying 
him ? — A. The evi«lence made it appear so, and the judge had no hesi- 
tation in taxing the prosecutor with the costs. 

Q. Was that by an order of the judge, and approved by the supreme 
court of the State on an ajipeal by Mr. Darr ? — A. Yes, sir ; it was ; and 
Mr. Darr was also prosecuted for perjury in the case. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 2iO 

Q. For perjury? — A. Yes, sir; I was retained to defend biui, and the 
case went off; I don't know how; it was never tried. A not. pros., I 

think. , 

Q. Yon say Colonel Henderson's chararter is good 1'— A. \es, sir; i 

say so. 

Q. He is very active as a politician, is he not ?— A. ^ ery ; he is a 
stalwart Republican. 

Q. And has been a candidate for Gong-ress ?— A. Y^es, sir ; a candi- 
date once for Congress. It is due that I should say in this connection- 
due to nie — that there was, some years previous to that, a charge agaiii>-t 
Colonel Henderson; .'nd T thought at the time it was correct. It turned 
out afterwards to l)e a mistake. It was in regard to the purcha^e of 
books from an attorney sin(;e deceased. It was alleged that Colonel 
Henderson had obtained the books and had marked them as his own 
while belontiing to another man. It turned out to the satisfaction of 
the citizens that this was not so ; that this lawyer, though a brilliani: 
man, was very unfortunate, and killed himself drinking, and he would 
sell books and other things to get money. I am more anxious in this 
public way to <lo justice to Colonel Henderson, because I did him injus- 
tice at that time. 

Q. He was an officer of the Freedmen's Bureau ?— A. Yes, sir ; he 
was, immediately after the war; in my town. 

Q. Of course that created a pre] udice against him among these peo- 
pled A. It created a very strong prejudice at that time, immediately 

after the war, in consequence of the hates and strifes engendered by it. 
Q. This charge about the mule, &c., occurred just about that time ?— 
A. A little after that time, I think. In 1808 the indictment was found. 
In the testimony there was not one particle of evidence, except that Da- 
vid Henderson had purchased the mule from the man who really had 
stolen it. 

Q. I neglected to ask you if Colonel Henderson is not now a prac- 
ticing lawyer in Lexington ? — A. He is. 

Q. Does he stand fair with the bar and court ?— A. Yes, sir. I desire 
to state this : he is like a good many other men ; he has improved in his 
morals and manners in the last ten years. He is noAV a member of the 
church, and I have heard nothing against him since. 

Q. Are you acquainted with Dr. Mott ?— A. I have been acqujiinted with 
Dr. Mott for the last ten years. I have met him from time to time tor 
many years, but have known him very well for ten years. He lives fifty 
miles from me. 

Q. Do you know his character and reputation in the community iii 
which he lives ? — A. I think I do. 

Q. Please state what it is. — A. It is good. 

Q. Is it especially high?— A. I will say that Dr. Mott stands as high 
as anv gentleman in his relations as husband, father, neighbor, citizen, 
and for high integrity inlinancial dealings. He has been a commission 
merchant, among other things, and I think he stands as high as any 
man. 

Q. He is an active politician?— A. The most so of any man I know. 
Q. As a Republican ?— A. And as a Republican or Liberal, for he is 
both. He is a Republican and a very hard and incessant worker. 

Q. That is calculated to raise prejudice there against him, if anything 
could in that country— to be an incessant and hard political worker?— 
A. Well, it has been my fortune to be a politician in public life for 
twenty-six years, and this has created antagonism and feeling. I don't 
know that there is a great deal of feeling against him more than any 
S. Mis. 116 18 



274 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

other man particularly. I suppose it is political feeliug. I judge others 
by myself iu this respect. I have no personal feeling against anybody; 
but in politics we make things very hot in my country. 

Q. You have heard Dr. Mott's x><>htical enemies speak of him, and 
sometimes his personal enemies also? — A. I have heard political opi)0- 
iients speak of him. I would not undertake to say that he had any per- 
sonal enemies. I don't know how that is. I have heard jjolitical ene- 
mies speak of him — very strongly against him politically. 

Q. Did the}^ assail his character? — A. JS'ot at all; they speak well of 
it, and of him as a citizen. 

Q. They all speak well of his character as a citizen and as a man of 
integrity and truthfulness? — A. Yes, sir; but that he would stoop to 
conquer in i^olitics, and he was bound to win in some way, and was in- 
cessant in his labors in that particular. 

Q. You w^ere a member of Congress before the war, were you not? — 
A. It is far back to go, but I was a member; a young man then. 

Q. You were a member of Congress since the war? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were also a member of the Confederate Congress? — A. I was. 

Q. During all which time you lived in that section of the country? — 
A. I have lived there since I located as a lawyer. I was raised within 
eighteen miles of where I settled — in Lexington. 

Q. That is the reason why we ask your opinion as to the character of 
these gentlemen that have been assailedinone way or another. Iwillnow 
ask 3 on the character of Mr. W. H. Kestler, of Salisbury ? — A. If it is 
that which regards a majority of men speaking of him, I don't know 
his general character ; but if it is divers people speaking of him in his 
town, and the impression made upon me, I can speak of his character. 

Q. We have not conliued ourselves to the rigid rules of a court of 
justice, but much latitude is allowed in this investigation. You know, 
of course, what questions about the general character of a witness are 
asked in court. — A. Hence I made the remark I did. 

Q. State your estimate of the man and the estimate in which he is 
held by mauj of the leading men in the community of Salisbury. — A. I 
think it is low — very low. 

Q. In what respect? — A. I heard quite recently that he was reputed 
not to be an honest man. He came from Concord, and that report 
reached Salisbury. It is rumored he went into the war on that account. 
I heard that repeated again and again, and I heard several of the citi- 
zens of Salisbury speak of it. 

Q. Of what? — A. That he was charged with stealing or trading with 
negroes in the days of slavery, one or the other, I am not certain which ; 
I have heard it both ways. I think his character is generally bad. 

Q. What is his business in Salisbury? — A. He had a bar there of 
rather low repute. 

Q. A man necessarily is not of bad character because he keeps a bar ? — 
A. Ko, sir.- 

Q. Bars are kept in different ways and different sorts of men keep 
them ? — A. I have heard that he had some trouble with his wife and a 
separation ; that there was bad conduct on the part of both of them — 
immoralities. 

Q. You say then that his character in that community is low? — A. It 
is; I have heard some of the leading citizens say that it is worse than I 
have stated. 

Q. Some of the leading citizens represented it as worse than you have 
stated it ? — A. Yes, sir ; of course I don't know personally. I learned 
something of it because I once refused to take a glass of wine at his bar 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 275 

Ik'< iiiise of the character of the people around, au<l went out and did 
ut)t uet any. 

(^). You found at bis bar .such a chiss of men tliat you were not will- 
in <; to drink in their presence ? — A. I could not have done it in the main- 
tenance of self-respect — drunkenness, rioting, vulgarity, &c. 

P Cross-examinatiou by the Chairman : 

Q. You do not know anything of the truth of those allegations against 
Mr. Kestler ? — A. I do not. 

Q. But in consequence of them you think his character is low ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

(). Was it any lower than Colonel Henderson's was at the time that 
these accusations were rife against him f — A. There has been but one 
allegation against Colonel Henderson that I know of that amounted to 
anything at all, that had its intiueuce with me. But in the mule matter 
there was not a scintilla of evidence to convict hini. 

<^. You are going into particulars, while you know your testimony on 
this point ought to be of a general character. I will ask you if about 
that time Colonel Henderson's character was not very bad indeed 1 — A. 
No, sir ; it was bad as to that matter by those who did not know him or 
know the facts. 

1 Q. Bid you not particularly express your opinion as to him on the 
\frtuiup, very freely, that he was a man of bad character? — A. Xo, sir. 
I denounced him on the stump in severe language for speaking against 
me when I was running for Congress, and as you and I and everybody 
else does to his opponent, I denounced him. 

Q. But did you not allege that he was a man of bad character? — A. 
I never alleged that he was a dishonest man in any way. I state again 
in the mule matter that there was not a particle of testimony. In the 
other matter there did seem to be some testimony, and in that my mind 
was made clear, and I regretted it, and am now glad of the opportunity 
to put myself right in that matter — about the books — and do him jus- 
tice. 

Q. When Colonel Henderson was tried was there not an absent wit- 
ness for the State ? — A. I do not remember this. 

Q. Do you not remember that there was an important witness for the 
State absent, and the allegation w^as that Colonel Henderson had run 
him away? — A. I do not. 

Q. You do not remember that circumstance? — A. 1 do not. Who 
was the witness? 

Q. I do not ren ember the witness's name, but I recollect the fact. — A. 
The State announced itself ready for trial, I know. 

Q. Whom did you ever hear say that Mr. Kestler's character was 
bad?— A. I think I heard Mr. Klutz, Mr. Claude Mills, the deputy 
sherift', and I think I have heard Moses Holmes speak slightingly of it, 
but I cannot say he went to that extent. 

Q. Do you not know that he is in business now with Mr. Frercks ? — A. 
I do not know anything about his business. 

Q. Do you not know whom he is connected in business with? — A. ISTo, 
sir; 1 thought he had returned to Cabarrus. 

Q. Mr. Frercks is a respectable man and a large property -holder, is 
he not? — A. He is a respectable gentleman and has that reputation. 

Q. Mr. Kestler is a one-armed soldier, is he not? — A. Mr. Kestler is a 
x)ue-armed man, yes, sir. 

Q. He cannot make his living by physicallabor, can he ? — A. I should 
think not. 



276 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. He keeps a saloon to make a living by it, does he not? — A. I 
tliougbt he had given that np. In connection with his repntation, I 
heard that it had got so low that he had to get somebody to get a 
lieensefor him ; could not get it himself, but through another. I thought 
that the whole matter had been given up. 

Q. Would you believe Mr. Kestler's testimony, if itwas corroborated I 
— A. I should, as a juror and a lawyer, if he was corroborated. 

Q. If he came in and swore a certain voucher was forged, and the man 
who forged it said itwas a forgery, would you disbelieve it?— A. Of 
course not. I would not hesitate to believe his oath if he was corrobo- 
rated by other testimony of a convincing character. For instance, from 
men of weight or character. Then I would not hesitate to believe it, of 
course. 

Q. You have been acquainted with the operations of the revenue de- 
partment there in that part of North Carolina for many years, have you 
not, by observation, «&e. '? — A. Yes, sir, I think I have. 

Q. i will ask you the question, if it is not a very grievous burden upon 
our people, the way^that department has been operated ? — A. I do noti 
hesitate to say this, that for many years after the war it was regarded 
not only as a very grievous burden, but its management was odious, 
and that it was justly odious. 

Q. Oppressive ? — A. Very oppressive after the war, for some years.\ 
I want to give my reasons for saying that: It was because the officers 
put in a number of subordinates who were characterless men, who, in 
my judgment, were very inferior men, and when clothed with a little 
brief authority they cut up fantastic tricks and behaved very badly. 
This was continued for some time after the war. 

Q. I will ask you if it was not charged, and generally believed for 
many years after the war, up as late as 1876, that they terrorized over 
the people by going around in considerable squads with United States 
marshals, carrying blank warrants with them in their saddle-bags, ready 
to arrest anybody they thought proper ; and were instruments of a 
political party as much as for the government in the collection of the 
taxes! — A. There are so many questions put there that I cannot answer 
the in all at once ; but I have got the idea, I think. 

Mr. Pool. Before the witness answers the question, I want to call 
attention to the fact that we are investigating the collection of the in- 
ternal revenue in the sixth district. Mr. Leach lives in the fifth district. 

The Chairman. We will confine him to that district. 

Mr. Pool. I will ask you whether the investigation runs behind the 
administration of Dr. Mott. 

The Chairman. There is no limit to it, as far as I understand it. 

The Witness. I have my mind made up on your questions. I could 
not say that such extended up to 1876, and I have reasons why 1 could 
not say that; but I say this, that the system commenced badly, with 
improper, and, in some instances, bad and corrupt men in office as subor- 
dinates, but it gradually grew better year by year. There was in the 
earlier years largely such oppressions as you have spoken of. I had 
heard of subordinates going around with blank warrants, &c., and I 
denounced it, and. I remember 1 was at the court in Asheville when 
Judge Dick, the district judge, denounced it and their oppressions, but 
I think there has been a great deal of improvement, and I would not 
undertake to say that that bad conduct continued up until 1876. There 
was some objection to it then as now, and I have my reasons for saying 
that, if allowed to express them. 

Q. I will ask you if the revenue department in our State has not 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 277 

always been recognized as the bead and front of the Repnblican i>arty 
organization? — A. I can only answer that this Avay, that the ofHcers 
and snbordiuates beU)nged to a party, and they are presumed and sup- 
posed to advocate the principles of that party. 

Q. Was there not more tliau a presumption in that case"? Do you not 
know that they did ' — A. Yes, sir; the presnmi)tion has been made a 
fact. 

Q. By their conduct do you not know that it was geuerally nuder- 
stood and charged that all the officers belonging to the dei)artment are 
assessed for the purpose of bearing the expenses of the political cam- 
paigns? — A. I do not know that. I know that a great deal lias been 
said about that. 1 have heard a great deal of it in the past. I have 
no personal knowledge that they do so, as to subordinates. 

Q. 1 will ask you if it was not so understood in the community? 1 
did not ask your personal knowledge about it. — A. Yes, sir. It is un- 
derstood. Y^ou asked me if I knew, which surely meant personal ktiowl- 
edge. 

Q. And that they got up public meetings, atteiuled conventions, and 
"Were active members of the party, from the collector down to all of his 
subordinates. That is so understood, is it not? — A. They are regarded 
as active members of the party. I have no jiersoiud knowledge, nor do 
not know that I have it by rumor, that they get up public meetings, 
but you always find a fair i)roportion of them in conventions, and I 
think that they are partisans; everybody knows that, I suppose, or be- 
lieves it. 

Q. Do you think if they had collected the revenue quietly, and ab- 
stained from open partisanship in the execution of their oftices, that the 
people would have paid their taxes more cheerfully, and there aa ould 
have been a better state of things; 1 mean in the sixth district ? — A. I 
think there would, because I think they are doing all this a great deal 
better now, and the people are becoming more reconciled to the system. 
1 want that to apply to the early portion after the war, for I do not 
know that there has been any bad feebng for some years, or much in- 
<;ompetency of subordinates there. I think there has been a marvel- 
ous im])rovement both in the state of public feeling and in the char- 
acter of the subordinates. 

Q. And in the behavior of the officers'? — A. Y'es, sir; I think so, 
though there was, and has been from the outset, an opposition and feel- 
ing against the interual-revenue-laws. 

Q. That is not confined to any one party; that is general? — A. I do 
not know. I cannot say as to parties, but I suppose so. I must say, with 
due regard to candor, that our Democratic friends have been somewhat 
active in stirring up that feeling. 

Q. I will ask you if recently the Republican candidate for Congress- 
man-at-large, Mr. Dockery, has not declared himself for the total aboli- 
tion of the revenue system? — A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. Have you not seen that in the papers? — A. I have not seen it. 
- Q. Hii\e you not read his letter of acceptance? — A. I have not. 

Q. I asked you that question with a view of showing that the opposi- 
tion is not confined to one party. — A. I was aware of that. 

Q. E will ask you whether the patronage of the revenue <lepartmenr 
has not been used for the purpose of corrupting the young men of the 
State, by giving them positions, and then getting them to vote the Re- 
publican ticket? — A. I could not answer the question in that \\ay, be- 
cause I should have to say they had been corrui)ted, and this 1 cannot 
Positively say. 



i 



278 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Answer it iu your own way. — A. I will answer itin this way : I think, 
that offices have been given to persons whose affiliations were Demo- 
cratic, and that offices, or some other consideration, have made them 
advocate the principles of the Repnblican party. 

Q. In other words, after getting the offices they become Republicans'?,] 
— A. Yes, sir; they may have become so before. I do not know but ll| 
have heard reports to that effect ; that getting the offices changed them. 

Q. 1 will ask yon if it is not commonly understood— perhaps you per- 
sonally know in some cases— that men were indicted in the sixth dis- 
trict for violation of the revenue laws, and were permitted to escape on 
payment of the costs, and afterwards turned out to be Eepublicans? — A. 
I have heard rumors of that sort, but have no knowledge of them, audi] 
would not attempt to give an opinion about matters which I do not 
knoAv and have not knowledge enough through others to express an in- 
telligent opinion upon. 

Q. You have heard such things? — A. I have heard such rumors, but| 
it has not amounted to reputation generally. 

Q. Ciiuld you give the names of some parties who had thus heen« 
transmogrified? — A. No, sir; I do not know of a single instance. IL 
could not give a case of transmogrification. 

Q. Do you know agentleman in Iredell County by the name of Jim 
Williams? — A. When I was running for Congress, I think I knew that 
man. He is about fifty years of age. I think he lived in the northern 
part of the county. I remember such a man. 

Q. Do you remember his case'? — A. I do not. 

Q. He was indicted for blockading, and was a furious Democrat. but1| 
came out a furious Republican, and ran for the legislature afterwards"? — 
A. I did not know he ever ran for the legislature. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. Y"ou are a Democrat yourself in politics, are you not ? — A. jS"©, sir ; 
I never was. I am a Whig, and so known to be. 

Q. You were sent to Congress as a Democratic nominee in the State'? — \ 
A. I was a Whig. I never have been an^-thing else. I never intend 
to be. 

Q. When last in Congress you were nominated by the Democratic] 
party of the State, were you not? — A. Yes, sir; but I ran as a Whig^ 
before the war. 

Q, f am speaking of since the war? — A. Yes, sir; the Conservative 
party nominated me; Democrats and Whigs. » 

Q. Have you ever voted the Republican ticket? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Y^ou s])eak of rumors around in opposition to the character of the 
revenue officials, &c. ; do you know that it was made a political hobby 
in canvasses there? — A. I have said as much, and I want to add thereyj 
that I have not only not made a speech against the internal-revenue law,, 
but have denounced others for making them on the stump, when I was] 
going around as an elector of the State at large. 

Q. Although you have affiliated with the Democratic party, you are 
a fair man ? — A. I do not undertake to say that of myself. I try to be 
a just man. 

Q. That is the reason you are on the stand. — A. I do not say that ; but 
I have never allowed myself to denounce the revenue law in my life. I 
have denounced others who opposed it, because I thought that the laws 
of the land should be administered and that that matter or system 
could be improved without denouncing it en masse, and that its abuses, 
could be corrected. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 279 

Q. Do you know the other Democratic speakers f>enerally have done 
so f — A. 1 know a great deal of it was done. 

Q. Were those denu^iciations very sharp and violent? — A. Very 
s^evere. 

Q. Were they denunciations as to the character of the officers ? — 
A. Of their character, and calling them a number of ridiculous and 
odious names. 

Q. Were they denounced as '^'thieves"? — A. Yes, sir; that was a 
very common expression. 

(). And oppressors of their own people ? — A, Yes, sir. 
• Q. Eating' out the vitals of the people ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Appropriating the money to their own uses ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Instead of paying it into the United States Treasury f — A. All 
these denunciations were made. 

Q. Tiie law itself was denounced, was it not! — A. Yes, sir; but its 
abuses much more. 

Q. This was general on the stump and in the public newspapers, 
was it not I — A. It was. 

Q. And you tliought it was wrong, and rather denounced tlie men 
who did it ? — A. I tliought so ; I was between these extremes, planted 
there, and meant to stay there, and am still there. 

Q. Did not that have the tendency to obstruct the execution of the 
law ? — A. It had that tendency, but it tended, also, to lessen its abuses, 
in my opinion. 

Q. To resist the authority of the men to whom was committed its ex- 
ecution ? — A. Unquestionably. 

Q. Did not that necessitate more severe measures than otherwise 
would have been necessary in the execution of the law ? — A. That must 
have been the effect. 

Q. You say that shorth^ after the war there was not so good a class 
of officers ? — A. No, sir ; there were many bad ones. 

Q. Was it not difticult at that time to get officers to execute such a 
law?— A. I cannot say that; possibly that was so. The best men were 
not selected. In ray opinion they might have done better. 

Q. Do you remember Mr. Wiley, the jiredecessor of Dr. Mott, when 
he went out of office ? — A. Very well. 

Q. What was the date of that ?— A. When he went outf 

Q. Yes. — A. I suppose 1S75, '6, or 7. 

Q. Was it not about 1872, or 'S ?-A. Mr. Wiley ? That is so, 1873; 
I was mistaken as to the date. 

Q. After 1872 did an improvement set in ? — A. Very great, sir. 

Q. Has that improvement been going on ? — A. That improvement has 
continued under Dr. Mott's administration. I state that as a fact. 

Q. It has been getting better and better all the time? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. A^ery greatly better than it was before ? — A. Very greatly better 
than it was. 

Q. Then you think Dr. Mott as an officer has successfully improved 
the service, and in doing so has improved the general feeling of the com- 
munity with regard to it ? — A. Very greatly, and I can give my reasons 
for it. In canvassing through that district I looked into that matter, 
and determined never to denounce individuals, but I did all I could to 
get a better set of officers, and looked into the matter when canvassing 
as an elector in that district — in that part of the State. I had an inter- 
est in the welfare of my State, and had rejoiced to see that there was a 
very decided im]nY)vement in the revenue department: and I state fur- 
ther what r heard as a sreneral rumor, that when Dr. Mott got an in- 



280 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

efficient officer or cliaracterless man in, lie turned him out. There were 
a number of instances of that sort that I heard on inquiring into it. I was 
at the time lighting Dr. Mott in a political way and had occasion to 
look into it on that account. 

Q. If you had got anything on that subject, you woukl have used it 
against him on the stump, of course? — A. No; I do not say that. I 
determined not to denounce that system, but the inefficient men in it, 
whoever tliey might be. 

Q. At any rate, you looked into it as fully, ijerhaps, as any man could, 
and know just what the condition of things was? — A. I think so. I 
tliink 1 was in many of the counties of his district speaking in that 
general canvass. 

Q. It is doubtless true, as you say, that the Eepublican officers take 
an active jnirt in politics, go into conventions or meetings, aid in getting 
them up; but I will ask you do not other officers beside revenue officers 
do the same thing ? — A. I think so. 

Q. You vN'ere in politics before the war as a Whig; I will ask you, as 
1 was a Whig also in the old times, if the Whig officers did not so act 
in political matters? — A. We have all done it, and I suppose it will 
continue as long as our present form of government exists. 

Q. Do you consider that illegal at all? — A. Well, from a political 
standpoint, I do not. I would make a distinction between high Chris- 
tian ethics and political ethics, if there be such, as I think every politi- 
cian in America does. I think both parties and all party men use 
subordinate officers and others to raise money wherever they can to 
utilize in elections. 

Q. Have yon ever known moral ethics to play any part in party poli- 
tics? — A. I have not, unfortunately, for in our form of government, 
good as it is, that is an unfortunate concomitant, to get money if pos- 
sible. 

Q. There are Democratic officers who do that to-day, are there not? — 
A. l"es,' sir. 

Q. Kailroad officers and others, as well as State officers? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Do they play their. part in party politics? — A. They certainly do. 

Q. Do you think the fact that because revenue officers take an active 
part in furthering the interest of their party that that was any justifi- 
cation for denouncing the law and its execution or individual officers 
as "thieves," "oppressors of their people," eating out the substance of 
the communities, and all that sort of thing? — A. I do not, and I have 
said so on the stump and in private, because I have not held any ex- 
treme views on this or other subjects. 

Q. The question was put to you whether appointments in the revenue 
service were used as instruments for corrupting Democrats and making 
them turn over to the Eepublican party? — A. That question was not 
answered in that way. 

Q. It was put to you in that way. I know how you answered it, but 
I want to ask this: Is it unusual in politics for an appointment to be 
sometimes made to further the interest of political parties ? — A. I think 
among politicians they are generally so made, if they can utilize them 
in all parties. 

Q. If they appointed a man who was a little shaky on the opposition 
side for the purpose of making him a little more shaky, or of making 
iiim come ovevl — A. Such. is the rule of both parties in the politics of 
iny country. 

Q. Has this been i)ressed to anymore excessive degree in this dis- 



THE .SIXTH DLSTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 281 

tiict tlicUi is customary in others ' — A. Well, sir, Dr. Mott is so ii<;tive 
a politician that to that extent it may have been used more. He is so 
hard a worker, and I judge by results. Therefore, I cauuot answer it in 
that way. There has been more work there than in other districts. 
Hence, 1 Judge by results, and results show more has been done in his 
distri<;t. 

Q. \'ou do not know that it has been .' — A. I do not know positively 
that it has been. 

(}. You only know it from the results? — A. That has formed my 
0])inion, as explained. 

Q. These results show that amongst other things he has increased 
the strength of his ])arty in his district? — A. He has the credit for in- 
creasing" it more than he really di<l. In my opinion, for reasons very 
cbvions to me, Mr. Bobbins, the former candidate and member of Con- 
gress, increased the Democratic strength there, foi', though he was a 
pronounced Democrat, he got quite a number of Republican votes, and 
ran his vote up to a large majority; and I think the basis of calculation 
for the increase made by Dr. Mott is due in part to the decrease conse- 
quent on Mr. Robbins's defeat for the nomination. 

Q. You mean that he has decreased Mr. Robbins's strength ? — A. I 
mean Mr. Robbins's increase has not been kept u]) by his successor. 

Q. AVell, Dr. Mott has been suiicessful as a revtmue otiticer in nuiking" 
au improvement in the service and the public feeling in regard to it : 
aud has also been successful as a party tnauager and party worker? — 
A. He is a hard worker and an active stalwart Republican, working all 
the time. 

Q. Did you think that that justified the violent and excessive denun- 
ciation of revenue oflicers by the opposite party? — A. I do not think 
they all do it. It is only in degree. These eiforts of the parties are 
common, aud it is only in degree. Some men work more etiectively 
than others ; they have more talent, more organizing- and administra- 
tive ability. 

Q. Do you not believe that the disparaging- reports aud rumors 
against Dr. Mott in that district, and his officers, are put forth by Demo- 
cratic politicians for the i3uri)ose of breaking- down the effect of Dr. 
Mott's work in a political way ? — A. I thiulv so, by some ; I would not 
undertake to say that it is universal. I am satisried, and can give 
reasons why these things seem to have arisen to break the force of his 
influence. 

Q. Is not all this cloud of slanderous reports upon him and his sub- 
ordinates in that district, really jiolitical and partisan in its cliaracter ? — 
A. I nuist modify as I did before. I think it is to some extent. I feel 
bound to say that. 

Q. Would you say mostly? I am speaking of Dr. Mott's administra- 
tion, not Mr. Wiley's. — A. I ^ay the case was being i)rejudged, and 
the denunciations of the department and of individuals would indicate 
there was a strong and bitter feeling- of that sort against Dr. Mott, 
not so much as a man, but as an active party man. 

Q. Of course these rumors are not believed, or his character would 
have sutt'ered. Has his character suffered as a mau"? — A. It has not ; 
I have heard some strong political opponents speak of him as a man of 
high .character for honor, integrity, and in his business relations — at 
least one or two of his very bitterest opponents. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You have disclaimed ever being a Democrat; you say you never 
were? — A. Are you going to try me on politics now ? 



282 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. No 5 but the position you have put yourself in is, of course, cal- 
culated to affect your testimony. — A. I don't know what you mean 
by that. 1 would like to be understand that. I was put down as a Whig 
but have acted with the Democratic party in every election since the 
war. 

Q. The representation is now that, you being a partisan on neither 
side, you stand in a position to give very impartial testimony. — A. I 
have not said anything of that sort. I would like to understand your 
remark that ray position affects my testimony. 

Q. I say you have disclaimed being a Democrat ; that is so, is it not? 
— A. As a Democrat ? I said I had acted with the Democratic party 
and had given no other vote, but I had always called myself a Whig, and 
was so put down when 1 was here in Congress. The Congressional 
Dire(;tory will show it. I have acted with the Democratic party, and 
therefore to that extent I have been a party man. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You acted with the Democratic party ? — A. Yes, sir. 
By the Chairman : 

Q. Nevertheless it is true that in response to Mr. Pool, in your testi- 
mony, you have said you were not a Democrat? — A. I said not a Demo- i 
cratin one sense. I have acted with the x>arty, and voted with them, 
but have stood between these extremes. Have always been a Whig in 
principle ; that is what I said. 

Q. I ask you now if you are not the attorney for the present collector ? — 
A. Mr. Cooper"? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I will ask if your son is not an officer in Mr. Cooper's office 1 — A. 
He is. 

Q. I ask you if Dr. Mott and Mr. Cooper are not intimate personal 
and political friends ? — A. I suppose they are, so far as I know. 

Q. 1 ask you if you did not yourself denounce the revenue department 
in the campaign of 1876 from one end of the State to the other? — A. I 
did no such thing. I stated this : That I denounced the manner of its 
collection and its abuses ; but I never denounced individuals in that 
canipaigii. 

Q. Byname? — A. There were two things you very well remember I 
did not do in the canvass. I objected to drawing the color line and toi 
denouncing the internal-revenue laws of this countrj^ ; but I did denounce" 
the administration of them in particulars and their abuses. 

Q. That is what I ask you. The Democratic party did nothing more 
than assail the laws as unwise ones, and advocated their repeal ; they 
did not denounce the law, did they ? — A. No, sir ; I could not say that 
they all did, though some did. 

Q. But they denounced the manner in which it was executed, and so 
did you? — A.. You know very well that I avoided a denunciation that 
would tend to affect the administration of the revenue laws, and I 
avoided that everywhere, and protested against it throughout the State. 
I entertain moderate views on these matters, and always have, as every- 
body in the State knows. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. You were speaking of the state of affairs a little after the war. 
There was a very disturbed general condition of the public mind then, 
was there not? — A. Very great. I looked upon it as one of the imme- 
diate concomitants of the war. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 28S 

Q. As far as you know, it would have been a little diftieult under the 
circumstances, just at that thne after the war, to secure tiie services of 
the very best men residinj;' there to carry out and administer the inter- 
nal-revenue law. Was there not a public sentiment really a,i;ainst them ? — 
A. There was a very str(ui,y ]>ublic sentiment a<;ainst them, and I think 
])robably the very best men would have hesitated to accei»t positions — 
the service was so odious. 

Q. Was there, particularly at that time after the war, nmnifested, on 
the part of the oi)posite party, a disi)osition to seize upon and make 
use of all these thiuji's, in the way of denunciation, not only of the offi- 
cers whose character mij^ht have been unfortunate, but of the adminis- 
tration of the law generally; whether that was not used with avidity by 
the politi(nans ? — A. I have said this much in substance with qualifica- 
tion — only (pndifted it in attempting' to protect myself, though the abuses 
were much more denounced than the law; for I had tried to av<Md it. 
My views are well known bv every intelligent and honest man in the 
State. 

Q. Now, in view of the condition of affairs which seems to have been 
almost unavoidable at that time, I ask you if you did not regard the 
improvement with reference to tlie feeling in the public mind, and the 
feeling of the i)ublic generally with regard to the revenue law, as very 
remarkable f — A. J think it is remarkable and wonderful. 

Q. 1 understood you to say that it has been very much improved dur- 
ring Dr. Mott's acbninistration "^ — A. Very greatly so ; and I think dur- 
ing the administration of the other revenue officers of the State. I do 
not hesitate to say that I looked into it with a view of striking at the 
system where I could without any bitter or unmeasured language; but 
in such a way as would reach the hearts and minds of the i)eople. 

Q. Vou have been very long in i>ul)lic affairs. Is it not a fact in the 
best communities where there has been no disturbing cause there is a 
natural antipathy and objection to any kind of revenue collecting ? — A. 
It has been so since the foundation of this government, and I suppose 
it will cojitinue unquestionably, for taxes are a sensitive thing. The 
pocket nerve is very sensitive. 

Q. Is it true, as a matter of history, that up to this time there had 
been a general avoidance of the collection of internal-revenue taxes for 
the general government? — A. Yes, sir; much avoidance. 

Q. So it was naturally an obnoxious matter to the people? — A. Yes, 
sir; tbere was a great <leal of feeling against the government, and avoid- 
ance of the payment of the taxes in the early i)art of the system. 

Q. Is it not true in the sixth district, that that violent resistance to 
the revenue laws has abated, as the years have progressed, so there is 
less and less violence and bl<>odshedf — A. Yes, sir; there is very little 
violence, and very little bloodshed, and it has very greatly imi)roved. 
The peoi)le have become habituated to the administration of the law. 
There are better officers, and uncpiestionably better subordinates, and 
the system is more tolerable. 

Q. Would you not also regard it as excellent policy — I am speaking 
now of i)olitical policy, or of governmental policy — if it was found that 
one party was establishing itself in this way, and as a remedy against 
this, if tlie collectors and persons having the appointment of subordi- 
nates, should try, if possible, to secure men from that i)arty which in 
some measure had the best men in it? — A. I should think it would have 
that effect. 

Q. And you would not call that corruption of ihe men appointed, but 
a i)roper action on their part?— A. Tliat is what all parties do. That is 



284 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

the idea. I know of individuals changing. I did not, and as my good- 
tempered friend Governor Vance looked at me as a Democrat, it was 
simply due to the fact, that in twenty-eight years of public service I had 
been known as moderate in my views. I have denounced my opponents, 
but among the masses of the people, I have appealed to them in the light 
of reason, and have stood between those extremes in all my i^nblic life; 
and my historic as well as journalistic career will prove that to a com- 
plete demonstration. 

Q. Would not that have been a very natural result, that some per- 
sons who were appointed to subordinate positions, and were formerly 
Democrats, mostly from what they heard in public speeches, and seen 
in the public press regarding the internal revenue — if they should become 
administrators of that law and found nothing sinful or hurtful in it that 
they should change from the Democratic party to theEepublicansf — A. 
Some men are guided that way by princixde, not oul}^ through North 
•Carolina, but all over the country. 

T. K. Davis sworn and examined for the government. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do vou reside? — Answer. I reside in Buncombe 
County, N. C. "^ 

Q. What is your age ? — A. Fifty-three years. 

Q. Have you been in the service, and for how long a time, of the In- 
ternal Eevenue Department of the sixth district of North Carolina I — 
A. No, sir ; never was. 

Q. Have you been in the service of the government at all ? — A. 
1 have been, as a deputy marshal, 

Q. A deputy United States marshal ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you been acting in that capacity "? — A. I had the 
same business in 1868 for a while under Daniel E. Goodloe. I was ap- 
pointed a special deputy. 

Q. How long altogether have you been in the service? — A. Then I 
was appointed by Colonel Douglas — I think in 1873; I won't be posi-, 
tive as to the date. 

Q. Altogether you have been in the service over ten years, have you 
not ? — A. Something over ten years. I did not do very much work for 
Goodloe. He did not stay in very long. 

Q. "What part of the district, or how much of the district have you 
had occasion to travel over during all this time you have been deputy 
marshal ? — A. I have traveled over a good deal of it in the western 
part of the district, and some in the eastern part as far as Hickory in 
Catawba County, to and in Lincoln, Burke County, McDowell County, 
Caldwell County, Euthei-ford County, Polk County, and Henderson 
County. 

Q. How much of the counties west of the Blue Eidge ? — A. I have 
done some work in Haywood County and in Madison, and some in Yan- 
cey and Mitchell Counties. 

Q. What are your politics ? — A. I am a Eepublican. 

Q. You have been all the time ? — A. I never voted any other ticket 
since the war. 

Q. You arrest jjeople, of course, as you have occasion, and it is re~ 
quired ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you state if you ever liad any difficulty in making arrests 
iu that country ? — A. Never. I was at one time with a squad of men 
when we were fired upon. 



THE SIXTH l^ISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 285 

Q. OiH' time you were fired upon ? — A. Yes, sir ; but I never had any 
difficulty whatever. 

Q. Did you know any cause of oii'ense that those men had given or 
supposed cause for beiug tired upon? -A. I do not know that they 
gave any cause of offense for being fired upon. 

Q. Did they not ]>hin(U'r an okl hidy of a little tobacco that they found 
in her house ? — A. They had taken some tobacco from an old lady. 

Q. Green tobacco ? — A. Leaf-tobacco twisted np. 

(^. How much of it ? — A. Two and a half or three pounds. 

Q. Therefore, for that you think that they were tired upon ; how soon 
after ? — A. In about two hours afterwards. 

Q. What ever became of that tobacco f — A. I do uot know, sir. 

Q. Was it returned to the CTOvernment of the United States 1 — A. 
Xot to my knowledge. 

Q. You were along as marshal ? — A. They were special agents; none 
of them lived in the sixth district. They were special agents accom- 
panied by a special agent, Wagoner. The men were in charge of Brem- 
halt, from ]Srew York. I thought that they behaved a little badly. 

Q. You felt safe in going into any part of the district lo execute war- 
rants ? — A. I could not say at all times that I felt exactly safe, but at the- 
same time I got along without any difficulty. Sometimes I did not feel 
Aery safe. 

Q. Where was that country in which you were fired upon ? — A. In the 
South Mountains, Burke (-ounty. 

Q. Do you know the politics of the neighborhood ? — A. Yes, sir ; 1 
think so. 

Q. What were they '? — A. Republican, very decidedly, I think. 

Q. So it was not their politics that caused their being fired upon ? — 
A. I think not. 

Q. And not as a result of stump speeches ? — A. I could not say as to 
that. 

Q. At least it was not the result of Democrats persuading other Demo- 
crats to violate the law ? — A. I could not tell anything about the cause 
of the firing. I know the firing was done after we had cut up a large 
blockade distillery that morning. 

Q. Who did it belong to? — A. It was supposed to belong to Harvey 
York. 

Q. What were his politics ? — A. Republican, so he said. 

Q. Do you know any instances where storekeepers divided their pay 
with distillers? — A.. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. Do you know any instance where other parties said they divided — 
either distillers or storekeepers? — A. I do not think I have. I have 
heard it rumored very frequently. 

Q. You have no personal knowledge on the subject ? — A. Xo, I do not 
think I recollect an instance. 

Q. Do you kno\V one R. A. Cobb in Burke County ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What office did he hold in the revenue individually ? — A. He was 
at one time a storekeeper. 

Q. How did he get out, do you know ? — A. No, I do not know that 1 
could state the grounds upon which he was turned out. 

Q. He was turned out? — A. Yes, sir; I understood so. 

Q. For some malfeasance in office ? — A. I think so. 

Q. Do you know that he was ever restored afterwards? — A, I do not 
think he was a storekeei)er any more. 

Q. Was he not restored to the service? — A. Yes, sir; he Avas in serv- 
ice after that. 



286 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Is Le ill tlie service now? — A. I do not know wlietlier he lias got 
a commission or not now. He is not on duty; was not at last accounts. 

Q. ])o you know one James Herrn? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What position did he hold in the government? — A. I have em- 
ployed him as a guide to assist me as deputy marshal at that time; he 
did not hold any commission. 

Q. Do you know if he ever did any service that lie was paid for by 
voucher? — A. I do not know of my own knowledge if he ever did any 
service, further than I heard him say he had done some service. 

Q. What did you hear him say about it ? — A. 1 heard him say he had 
done some service for some of those people. I think, some of those 
special deputy collectors. 

Q. Did he describe the service? — A. The service was as a sjiecial 
guide. That is what they call it. 

Q. Oil what occasion; what raid? — A. I could not state; I cannot 
recollect the date exactly. He said that he had done some service and 
had put in a claim and they did not pay him. 

Q. And they did not pay him ? — A. Did not pay him. 

Q. How much did he say that he had put in a claim for ; do you re- 
collect"? — A. My understanding is, that it was for twenty-eight dollars. 

Q. How much did he say he got?— A. He got $2.50 or $3.50, 1 think. 

Q. I understand that Mr. Herrn told you he had done some service 
for the department, and had put in a claim for $28, and had got $2.50 
for it?— A. I think $2.50, or maybe $3.50. 

Q. He did not speak of but one voucher ? — A. Ko, sir. 

Q. You do not recollect upon what occasion that was ? — A. T was not 
there at the time wheu he did the service, and coukl not swear positively 
that he did it at all. 

Q. These counties you had traveled over and have described here, and 
did service in, were about as rough as any others in the district, and, I^ 
suppose, about as dangerous "? — A. I went to the South Mountains about 
seven years, off and on there all the time. They considered that as bad 
as any place there was in the district. I never did consider it as bad. 
The place where they call it the Dark Corners, in Polk County, I always 
considered worse than the South Mountains. Graham County, I think, 
was the worst county. I never did a great deal of work in Crraham. 

Cross-examined by Mr. Pool : 

Q. You say you never had any difficulty as United States marshal in 
making arrests in the district ? — A. I do not think I ever did. I cannot 
remember it at all. 

Q. Did you ever get assistance when you went to make arrests'? — A. 
Sometimes — very often. 

Q. Did you find it necessary to demean yourself with a great deal of 
moderation and care? — A. Yes, sir; I did so. 

Q. Y^ou had to be very careful about what you did, and the language 
you used? — A. Very, indeed. 

Q. Y'^ou would behave yourself? — A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. Y'ou would shake hands with the people and be very friendly with 
them ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And palaver them'? — A. Generally; always treated them very 
kindly. 

Q. Did you not have to treat them with liquor, often ask them to 
take a drink ■? — A. Yes, sir ; I have done that ; very often asked them to 
take a drink. 

Q. Y"©!! found that you had to be exceedingly circumspect in your 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 287 

coiuluct and hiuguage, and in that way you got along without luiving 
any particular rupture ? — A. That is my natural manner anyway. 

Q. Did you not uuderstand others had ditficulty ? — A. I understood so. 

Q. Was there not a good deal of difficulty among the marshals, some- 
times, in making arrests? — A. What locality do you speak of"? 

Q. Anywheres. — A. Sometimes the marshals got into very serious 
difficulty; very frequently. 

Q. The deputy marshals? — A. Yes, sir; the deputy marshals. 

Q. AVere they fired upon, shot, and sometimes killed? — A. Yes, sir; 
there have been some men killed. 

Q. And blood shed? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Y'ou did not get into any of these troubles yourself? — A. Not at 
all. I do not recollect ever having a quarrel at all with any person. 

Q. Would you consider it safe to have had a quarrel with these men ? — A . 
No, sir. I did have a little quarrel, I do not know that it was a quar- 
rel, but a little confusion, up at a public speaking in the South Moun- 
tains. It was in regard to the revenue. A kind of i)olitical speaking. 
I did not have very much trouble myself with it. 

Q. You endeavored so far as you could to avoid all quarrels and col- 
lisions? — A. I did, indeed. 

Q. You say that the South Mountain country was a Republican com- 
munity? — A." I so understood it; most of the men I had dealings with 
were Republicans. 

Q. Were there not a good many Democrats there ? — A. Yes, sir; some 
Democrats in a portion of the South Mountains. 

Q. Were they not very violent ones ; did they not abuse Republi- 
cans ? — A. I cannot say as to that. I did not talk politics much when 
I was on duty. 

Q. Did you think it safe to talk politics much '? — A. I did not try it ; 
I had something- else to do always. 

Q. Do you know a gentleman of the name of Mr. Mull in the South 
Mountain country*? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He is a Democrat, is he not ? — A. I think so, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Which Muir? — A. I know a good many Mulls. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Q. I have reference to Mr. P. M. Mull. 

The Witness. 1 am very well acquainted with him. 

Q. Then there is Jacob Mull. — A. Jacob Mull ? Yes, sir. 

Q. He is a Democrat"? — A. Do not know, sir; do not know his poli- 
tics. 

Q. Is Peter Mull a man of a great deal of influence and power in that 
neighborhood of the South Mountains ? — A. I think he is. I think he 
has got some influence there in the edge of Catawba County. 

Q. Do you know that he rather lords it over the Republicans in that 
community ? — A. I do not know that. I never heard very much of the 
politics down in that part of the country. 

Q. Of course Mull has the Democrats of that community at his back 
to sustain him? — A. I do not know, sir; I suppose so. 

Q. You spoke of some tobacco being taken from an old lady by the 
special agents of the Revenue Department ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You do not mean that they were Dr. Mott's officers ; you meant 
that they were from the department in Washington ? — A. I did not con- 
sider that they were under Dr. Mott, but they were under an agent by 
the name of Wagoner. 



288 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. He was tlie agent of the department at Washington, was he not ? — 
A. I do not know how those agents are appointed. 

The Ohaieman. He was a s])ecial agent, though ? 

Mr. Pool. I want to show tliey were acting for the department, and 
not for the collector of the district; it was not by Dr. Mott's officers 
this act was done ? — A. JSTo, sir; not that I know of. They were special 
agents — at least controlled by special agents. 

Q. Do 3^ou know whether that tobacco was rightfully or wrongfully 
seized ? — A. Only my opinion about it. I thought it was wrongfully 
seized. 

Q. Two and a half pounds, you think ? — A. Two and a half pounds. 
It was what tobacco was in the old lady's loft. 

Q. Did you think that aggravation of sufficient magnitude to justify 
them firing into the oificers of the government? — A. I do not think it 
was, I think, though, it was a very wrong act ; but I thought there was 
another way of redress. 

Q. You do not think two and a half pounds of tobacco, taken either 
accidentally or intentionally, was justification for firing from ambush 
upon those officers? — A. It would take a very great wrong to Justify 
men firing on a squad of men. 

Q. In what locality of the district was that firing ? — A. In the Y ork 
settlement. South Mountains, Burke County. 

Q. Do political speakers go into that section and make their speeches'? 
—A. I think so. I never heard but one speak in that country. I never 
attend public speaking while on duty. 

Q. On that occasion were the revenue officers denounced ? — A. I think 
it kind of divided itself into two sides on the revenue. They did not 
have any candidate out that year for the legislature, only the Demo- 
cratic candidate. 

Q. You spoke of Mr. Cobb being restored to the service. Do you not 
know that the only service he was restored to was that of a raider? 
— A. What was called a special deputy. 

Q. A special deputy? — A. That was what I understood. A raider is 
a special deputy. 

Q. What is the duty of these raiders ? — A. Their duty is to go around 
and break up illicit distilleries and seize illicit tobacco and any illicit 
traffie that is going on. 

Q. Tliey have no pecuniary responsibility, have they — I mean, they do 
not handle the money of the government ? — A, I think not, sir. 

Q. They are employed as a sort of police force ? — A. I suppose you 
may term it that, always, of special deputies. 

Q. And that was the aervice that Mr. Cobb was employed on. You 
spoke of the employment of Mr. Herrn; do you know whether he was 
ever employed by Dr. Mott at all ? — A. I do not. 

Q. You said he was employed by some agents, as a special guide? — 
A. He was employed as a special guide, I suppose, by some of the special 
deputies. They very often employ special guides. 

Q. You mean on their raids? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know how they are paid? — A. Which, the guides? 

Q. Yes.— A. They make out their claim on Form 10 and send it in for 
service rendered, so many days so much pay, and the department pays 
them. 

Q. You mean they were sent in to the department at Washington ? — 
A. 8ent in to the office of the collector, and then he sends them through 
in the regular course, like any other business ; don't know exactly. 

Q, I do not understand thej' were to be paid unless their account was 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 289 

allowed by the Comiiiissioiier here iu Washington? — A. I do not know 
auythino- about that. 

Q. Was Mr. Ilerrn a co)ni)etent person in that country? — A. He is 
.a very good guide for dei>uty niarslials to liave along. 

Q. You had him in your employ ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. To show you tlie byways, &c.? — A. Sometimes for that purpose. 
I generally took one i)erson with me most of the time. I sometimes 
took more. 

Q. Do you know what special dejDuty employed him in the revenue? — 
A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. All 3'ou know is what Mr. Ilerrn told you; that he had been em- 
l)loyed by some special deputy? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As a guide, and he had sent iu some accounts, and told yon what 
the amount of those accounts he sent in was? — A. That is so; yes, sir. 

Q. And he toUl you how much money he got out of it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But you do not know whether he told you the truth about any of 
it? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. These men searched that old lady's house, did they not? — A. If 
you want me to explain just the way of it, I will do so. The party and 
I did not get along very well after traveling together for half a night. 
At the tirst instance they arrested a man, one of the distillers, where 
there had been a distillery in operation. It was some 40 rods from the 
man's house, whose name was Calvin Settlemire. We went there to his 
distillery and found he had been running a blockade distillery. We 
rode to the house, but I had no warrant for Settlemire, although I was 
a deputy marshal. When we got to the house they arrested him and 
bought him out, and wanted me to take charge of him. I told them I 
€Ould not do it. 

Q. Why? — A. I had no warrant. He was not doing anything, only at 
home in bed, sleeping. They said to me that I w^ould not do my duty. 
1 said, " If you will give me proper authority, I will do it ;" but I could 
not afford to take the responsibility of taking charge of Settlemire ; if I 
had proper authority that I would take charge of him. They said to 
me that I had better do it. I said I would see about it. They seemed 
to be rather wild about it. Presently Settlemire started oft". I saw him 
walking oft", and I did not try to stop him, as I had no authority to 
:stop him. They did not like it much, though after he left we found 
some whisky in a little house close to his house, afterwards proven to 
be only four gallons. Then w^e afterwards found a still in the cellar of 
the house. They took it out and cut it up, and afterwards we found a 
cap and worm iu a little well-house, and we cut up the cap and the 
worm, and went on. 

Q. They arrested him before that? — A. Yes, sir; and he went otf. 
They told me they did not think that was proper. When we came to 
Y'ork settlement we found a large distillery in operation, close to Mr. 
James l^ork's, with two large stills, and, I think, about 30 hogsheads of 
beer and over 50 bushels of corn-meal iu the still-house. They cut that 
up aud went on to the house, and asked the old lady to get breakfast. 
She did not like to give them breakfast. 

Q. Was she the wife of the man who owned the still ? — A. No, his 
mother — the man supposed to own it. 

Q. You went to her house and asked for breakfast ? — A. Aud she did 
not much want to give us breakfast. I was acquainted with her; I had 
seized some stills there before; and I told her we would like to get 
.S. Mis. 110 19 



290 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

breakfast, and would pay her for it. She then toid ine if we did Hot 
meddle with aiiytbing in the house she would get breakfast. I said 
"They will not meddle with anything unless they hndsome illicit whisky." 
She said, " They can have all they find of that." Fiually, she came to 
me and told me those men had gone up stairs, into the loft. They went 
there to look after whisky. I went up there, and told them the old 
lady was a little nervous, and asked them to come down. They said 
they had found some blockade tobacco . there. That is exactly the 
transaction as it occurred. 

Q. Had they any right to search that old lady's house without a search- 
warrant ? — A. I did not consider that they had, for the Constitution of 
the United States forbids it. 

Q. After she had been kind enough to give them breakfast, on condi- 
tion that they were not to disturb anything, then they go and search, and 
find out 2^ pounds of tobacco belonging to the old lady "^^A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I omitted to ask you a question or two, marked down here, when 
you were on the stand before. I ask you if you know anything about dis- 
tilleries being divided — taking one tolerably-sized one and making tw'o 
or three out of it, as the case may bet — A. No, sir; I do not. They 
were so divided, I so understood, that some men ran two distilleries of 
the same capacity. 

Q. Do you know Tom Garrison, William Garrison, and Marion Huff- 
man 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has either of them a distillery '? — A. I do not know, sir. I under- 
stand there were some distilleries not far from Morgantown. I under- 
stood they were Garrison's distilleries. 

Q. Were there more than one "? — A. I think there were three ; but 
there were two of them, Thomas and William Garrison. I just lieard 
them speaking of Garrison's distillery. I understood afterwards that 
one of them was bonded. 

Q. In whose name? — A. In the name of Huffman. 

Q. How far were they apart — Huffman's and Garrison's "? — A. I was 
at two of them. I do not think that Garrison has got a bonded distil- 
lery at all. I cannot tell ; I just heard talk about Garrison's distilleries. 
It seems to me that I understood a man by the name of Brittaiu had a 
distillery there. 

Q. Did you understand that Huffman's distillery really belonged to 
Garrison ? — A. I generally heard it spoken of as Garrison's distillery. 
That is all I know about it. 

Q. Do you know Huffman personally? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he have the means to run a distillery ? — A. I think not. He 
might have the means' to run a distillery. I had an execution against 
him for forfeiture. He had been down to court and had forfeited his 
bond. 

Q. Do you know how close together the distilleries were that were 
called Garrison's and Huffman's? — A. I think probably a mile; may be 
not as far as that, but something like that — the two I was at. 

Q. Do you know who were the storekeepers at these two distilleries ? 
— A. I think there was a Mr. Gudger. 

Q. Mr. Gudger was storekeeper for which one? — A. I could not say 
positively. He was storekeeper at one of these distilleries, but I cannot 
say which one. 

Q. Was there a man by the name of Patterson a storekeeper? — A. 
Yes, sir J Mr. Patterson. 

Q. For which one? — A. I think he was storekeeper for Huffman. I 
am not positive, though. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 291 

Q. Wliat kill was Patterson, storekeeper, to Garrison '? — A. I umler- 
staiMl that Mr, Garrison is nncle to Mr. Patterson. 

Q. What kin is Mr. Gndger?— A. To Mr. Garrison ? 

Q. Yesi sir. — A. iMr. Gudger married William Patterson's sister. 

Q. Do yon know wlietber Mr. Gndger kept store for Garrison, Hnff- 
man, or P>rittain ? — A. I cannot tell; I think Gndger was storekeeper 
for P>rittain. I think William Patterson was storekeeper for Huffman, 
and Mr. Newt. Ilallyburton was storekeeper for JVlr. Garrison ; at least 
I understood it was Garrison. Sometimes you understand a distillt-ry 
belongs to a man, it goes by one name, and it turns out to belong to 
somebody else. 

Q. Who was the United States commissioner there ? — A. J. T. Pat- 
terson. 

Q. What kin was he to the storekeeper ? — A. The father of William 
Patterson. 

Q. And father-in-law to Gndger, the other storekeeper? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Y'ou say it was the impression that Garrison was really the owner 
of the distilleries'? — A. I so thought for a while, but some time after 
became informed that it was the other way. 

Q. Which way? — A. They were in the name of Brittain and Huffman. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Y^ou spoke of the men that took that tobacco out of the old lady's 
house, and their conduct in arresting Mr. Settlemire. Who were these 
men? — A. The man in charge of them was named Brenhalt ; I under- 
stood he was from New York; and a man by the name of Kyle. 1 do 
not know where he was from. 

Q. Were they strangers in North Carolina? — A. Y'es, so far as I 
know. 

Q. Do you know that they were sent out from Washington by the 
Washington authorities ? — A. I do not know by what authority. They 
were understood to be revenue agents. 

Q. From the commissioner here? — A. Yes, sir; I understood that 
Wagoner is a revenue agent, and these men were subordinates for the 
revenue agent. He is not under Dr. Mott, and I do not suppose they 
were. 

Adjourned until July 13, 10 a. m. 



Washing-ton, D. C., JkIi/ 13, 1S82. 

The committee met at 10 o'ch)ck a. m. 

General Green B. Ratjm, Commissioner of Internal Revenue, sworn. 

Examined in behalf of Dr. Mott by Mr. Pool : 

Question. You reside in the city of Washington for the present ? — 
Answer. Y"es, sir. 

Q. You are the Commissioner of Internal Revenue? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long have you been Commissioner of Internal Revenue? — A. 
Since August 2, 1870."^ 

Q. The sixth collection district in North Carolina is under investi- 
gation, and I want to ask you to state to the committee what is your 
opinion and judgment of the administration of Dr. Mott, the former col- 
lector in that district. — A. J. J. Mott was collector of internal revenue 
at the time I took charge of the office as Commissioner of Internal Rev- 
enue ; I found his district, like that of almost all the districts in the 
Southern States, lilled with illicit distillers, and a great many frauds in 



292 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

tlie manufacture and sale of tobacco and whisky were carried on. There 
seemed to be a spirit of opposition to the laws and to their enforcement. 
The illicit distillers were particularly difticult to handle, as they combined 
from time to time to resist the officers and to j^revent them from enforcing 
the laws. 

Q. Was this sixth collection district one of the worst '?^A. The sixth 
collection district was enlarged after I became Commissioner, by the 
consolidation of the seventh with it. The seventh district comprised 
the west end of North Carolina, and the two combined made one of the 
worst districts in the countrj^i I do not say it was the worst. I think 
that the second Georgia, the fifth Tennessee, the northern part of South 
Carolina, and the fifth North Carolina were almost, if not quite, as bad. 
Q. It was, however, one of the very worst in the country "I — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Was it not a very large district ? — A. It is now composed of thirty- 
four counties, lying west of the Yadkin Eiver. 

Q. Have you any idea of the extent of country it covers 1 — A. Well, 
it constitutes not quite one-half in territory and almost one-half in 
length of the State of North Carolina. 

Q. Nearly 300 miles'? — A. It must be very nearly 300 miles. The 
policy of my predecessor did not seem to be to establish a permanent 
system of repression, and suitable means had not been provided to over- 
come the formidable resistance which had grown up in that and other 
districts. After looking into the matter carefully, I became satisfied that 
the only way to suppress frauds there was to array against the wrong- 
doers a force which would be sufficient to overcome their resistance, and 
I directed in various communications the collector to employ the neces- 
sary force to overcome this resistance. I stationed in that district the 
most experienced and courageous revenue agents to assist, by co-operat- 
ing with the collector in the enforcement of the laws. It was founJ that 
there were so many persons engaged in defrauding the government ij/hat 
to bring everybody to punishment who was guilty would involve so 
large a portion of the population that it would be quite impracticable 
to do it. After consultation with the collector, whom I found to be 
a man of good judgment, a fixed policy was adopted of dealing with 
these offenders, and it was not confined to that district, but was made 
a general system in all the infected districts. The plan was, first, by 
vigorous measures, to force violators of the law to the wall, so to speak, 
and then after they had become satisfied of the determination of the 
government and its ability to enforce the laws, and had manifested a 
disposition to make i)eace with the government, to extend to them 
leniency, on such conditions as should appeal to the best side of their 
nature, so as to induce them to cease committing frauds and resisting 
the officers, and to observ^e the laws and assist in establishing a public 
sentiment favorable to their enforcement. In all this work, which was 
a work of time, for you cannot revolutionize a public sentiment so 
well settled as that in a day — it takes years of patient labor — I found 
Collector Mott not only earnestly devoted to the work, but an exceed- 
ingly energetic man, and possessing all the necessary qualifications of 
mind and will to carry out the instructions that were given him. The 
supijression of illicit distilling, as I have said, was not confined to that 
district, but it was a general system, and at times armed forces were 
organized, extending from Wheeling, W. V^a., almost to the Gulf of 
Mexico, moving simultaneously, and co-operating for a mouth or two at 
a time for the suppression of these frauds. One serious difficulty was 
the insufficiency of the appropriations. The operations of the govern- 



THE SIXTH DISTKTCT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 29d 

ineiit were spasmodic, not coiitimions, for the want of money. After 
the spirit of the illicit distillers had been pretty well broken, 1 inaugu- 
rated a system of encouraging the establishment of small legal distil- 
leries in all the illicit-distilling districts, believing that the people who 
w^re in the habit of making distilled spirits wouhl either make them 
lawfully or unlawfully, and I thought it was better to authorize small 
licensed distilleries, even though the government should get only tive or 
ten dollars a day from them rather than to have continual turmoil 
and confusion in trying to suppress illicit distillation. That system 
originated in my oftice, and letters were written to Collector Mott, among 
others, to enter upon the work of encouraging the old distillers to estab- 
lish lawful distilleries. 

Q. Yon mean old illicit distillers? — A. I <lonot say old illicit distillers; 
of course, some of them Avere illicit distillers, but many of them were citi- 
zens who were familiar with the business; but, at all events, he encour- 
aged the establishment of legal distilleries throughout his district. Now, 
the result of all that has been that the district has been lifted up from 
the attitude of fraud and resistance to authority into an observance of 
the law; and officers now can ride from one end of his district to the 
other, without danger of being bushwacked ; whereas, five years ago, a 
private citizen passing through that country, with "store " clothes on, 
and who was unknown to the people, was in danger of being suspected 
as a revenue officer and shot at. I state without any hesitation that 
Dr. Mott's administration has been eminently successful. He has had 
a very difficult district to deal with. He has had to select officers from 
uneducated people, because it is well understood in the western district 
of North Carolina, the people are not as highly educated as in some other 
portions of the same State. Here and there have been frauds committed 
by the officers, and sometimes, I h ive no doubt, there have been excesses 
of authority, but taking the district as a whole — and I judge it in that 
way — the improvement is very marked ; and the whole of it has been 
brought about by the administration, skillful judgment, and integrity of 
Dr. Mott. And I make this statement without any partisan bias in his 
favor, but simply as an officer who has watched his course for six years, 
and feels that he is entitled to the approbation of the government for 
the manner in which he has administered the office. 

Q. This establishment of stills of small cai)acity resulted in an increase 
of the expenses of the collection of the revenue ? — A. Necessarily. 

Q. And as a matter of percentage that expense would be much larger 
than it had been before? — A. As a matter of course, if you establish 
500 small distilleries, where the capacity ranges from five to ten bushels 
of grain per day, and put a storekeeper at each of them at $4 a day, 
while you will increase the collections in the district and the govern- 
ment will actually make money by the operation, yet, still, it will neces- 
sarily result in a large increase of the expenditure for collecting the 
revenue. That subject was thoi-oughly considered by me before L direct- 
ed the encouragement of the establishment of these small distilleries. 
I thought that as a choice between a system which would result in secur- 
ing some revenue i)eacefully aud quietly, and a system which was pro- 
ductive of fraud, resistance to law, and bloodshed, I could not hesitate. 
And taking the result in all these districts, from one end of the country 
to the other, to-day I can say we have a peaceful observance of the law 
as a result of this system of administration. 

Jt is fair for me to say in this connection that this subject has been 
constantly brought to the attention of Congress in my official reports, 
and I have time and again discussed the subject with both committees 



294 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

of (Congress on appropriations, and the whole thing has been done on 
ihe approbation of the Secretary of the Treasury. 

Q. Did the system meet with disfavor from tlie committees of Con- 
gress ? — A. Tbey have always appropriated the money, and there has 
been no legislation looking to the abrogation of the system. The fact is, 
it stands as a law, for a man has a vested right under the law to estab- 
lish distilleries of this kind. 

Q. A good deal has been said about the very large iiicrease^in the ex- 
penses of that district, $05,000, I think, was the sum named by some of 
the witnesses examined, as being expended in 1880, or along there. If 
yon can say anything on that subject, I wish yon would state it. — A. I 
can turn to my report and show the whole operations during the differ- 
ent years. You will understand from what I have already stated that 
when we got this system in motion there would be two sources of ex- 
penditure. One would be for the employment of men to continue the 
work of repressing illicit distilling, the other for the employment of 
storekeepers and gangers at the small registered distilleries established. 
I deemed it necessary to keep up a very considerable force of men over 
that territory to police from place to place in squads of from 5 to 10 or 
15 men, as the necessity might be, so as to prevent the re-establishment 
of the illicit distilleries that had been broken up. Then, as these legal 
distilleries were started, their establishment involved the necessity of 
appointing storekeepers and gangers to be assigned to them, and, of 
course, that would increase the expenditures; but it nuist be kept in 
view that while the expenditure has largely increased, the revenue has 
largely increased also, and no distillery was ever started that did not 
pay its way. 

Q. It was alleged in the public prints, and I do not know but uponl 
the stump by speakers, that officers collecting the revenue in that dis-' 
trict would send what they pleased here to Washington and keep the 
balance, and appropriate it to their own uses or to political purposes. 
Was it possible for that to be done ? — A. The great bulk of the taxes 
collected through the internal revenue system is received from the sale 
of stamps. When you collect a thousand dollars, it means you have 
sold about seven thousand stami)S. The only taxes that are collected 
otherwise are uj)ou assessment lists. These consist of taxes on banks, 
penalties inflicted, &c., but such assessments would constitute a very 
small percentage of the taxes that were collected in Dr. Mott's district. 
If a man establishes a distillery and gives a bond, a storekeeper is 
assigned, and the operations of that distillery are conducted so as to 
finally get the whisky into the government warehouse. It cannot come 
out of that warehouse except by payment of the taxes (and those taxes 
are paid by the purchase of stamj)s), unless it is stolen, and, in that 
case, the government has a claim upon the bond, and that is pursued 
in the courts. 

Q. I understand that the collections are paid into the Treasury here, 
and not into your office ? — A. ISTot into my office. They are deposited 
from day to day. 

Q. Dei)osited here ? — A. No; the system is to have the collector de- 
posit in a government depository. There is a government depository 
at Ealeigh. Dr. Mott deposited there. The Secretary of the Treasury 
is authorized by law to establish United States depositories at national 
banks where they deposit the necessary bonds for security, and those 
depositories are scattered all over the country. 

Q. The expenses of the district are not j^aid out of that sum before it 
goes into the Treasury? — A. The law requires that all the collections 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 295 

shall be put into the Treasury, and that the expenses shall be drawn 
out of the Treasury and disbursed by the collector. 
]>y Senator jMitchell: 

Q. Under the terms of his bond is he not required to deposit his col- 
lections ? — A. Oh, yes 5 that is the law, and the regulations, and the 
bond. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. The expenses of the district are allowed by the bureau here ui)on 
allowances adjusted by you, are they not? — A. Yes, sir; under the 
law, the Secretary of the Treasury, u})on the recommendation of the 
Commissioner of Internal Itevenue, makes an allowance fixing the sala- 
ries ol' all the subordinate officers. A montldy estimate, covering the 
amount of these salaries, is made by the collector and forwarded to my 
otfice. I make a requisition for a draft to cover that monthly expendi- 
ture, and the draft is issued in favor of the collector of internal revenue 
and it is forwarded to him, and of course is passed to his credit in the 
bank where he has his deposits. 

Q. It was simply to negative the idea put abroad that they paid 
these expenses from the money collected along ? — A. That was the case 
many years ago, but it has not been the case for a considerable length 
of time. 

Q. How long is it since the law was changed in that respect ? — A. 
The change in the law in this respect went into effect the 1st of Julv, 
1805. 

Q. It has been given in evidence here that the storekeepers and gau- 
gers fre<inently assist distillers, who are ignorant men, as is shown in 
most instances, in making up their accounts, and rendering them assist- 
ance in their business, and that sometimes they would complain of the 
storekeeper, that he would not do that, making a complaint to the col- 
lector, and asking for changes ; and it has been shown that Dr. Mott 
sometimes ^^ould favor, as well as he could consistently with the law. 
the distillers, and comply with their wishes in some respects. Was that 
good policy? Was it proper"? — A. I have no doubt that many of the 
distillers in his district were uneducated men. It is the duty of a store- 
keeper to keep an account of the grain, to take in all the operations of 
the distillery, and to make a mouthiy report of these things to the col- 
lector and Commissioner of Internal Revenue. It is highly probable that 
the storekeepers at times prepared papers of some descri])tiou for the dis- 
tiller — their notices of suspension or applications for the withdrawal 
of their si)irits, or something of that kind. There is no impropriety in 
it, although in large establishments the business is directed entirely by 
the owners of the distilleries themselves. It is an organized business, 
and they attend to their own part of it. 

Q. You mean in such large esta])lishments as those out West"? — A. 
Oh, yes, in various parts of the country. 

Q. Some of these establishments distill about as much as all of North. 
Carolina? — A. Y"es, sir; we have some very large distilleries in Ohio, 
Indiana, and Illinois. 

Q. There are none such in the sixth district of North Carolina? — A. 
Oh, no; "25 or 30 bushels is the largest distillery in that district. 

Q. AVhat is the ca])acity of some of the Western distilleries ? — A. Five 
thousand bushels a day. 

Q. I am speaking, of course, of the sixth collection district of North 
Carolina. — A. These are all small establishments. 

Q. And you wanted to encourage the establishment, and to encour- 



296 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

age the men in running that kind of stills'? — A. I stated to Dr. Mott, 
and to all the other collectors in conversation, and I have no doubt in 
writing, that it was desirable that the interests of these men should 
be 

Q. You mean the distillers'? — A. Yes; that the distillers should be 
properly instructed in respect to the operations of their distilleries, so 
as to have them avoid what is known as " deficiency liabilities." A dis- 
tiller running a little concern, who happens to fall behind three or four 
gallons a day, has to i)ay extra taxes in the way of deficiency assess- 
ments, and would soon suffer in his business; and knowing that they 
might be in danger of that unless their business was properly watched, 
I have always instructed collectors, in talking with them, that they 
should have intelligent men appointed at these distilleries who would 
watch not only the interest of the government, but the interest of the 
tax-j)ayer ; because an officer would receive my disapprobation if he did 
not as well watch the interests of the tax-payer as those of the govern- 
ment. 

Q. A good deal has been said about some rumors in the district that 
storekeeiiers were in the habit of dividing their pay witli the distillers. — 
A. Yes, sir; I have talked that subject over with Dr. Mott a dozen times, 
and he expressed an aj^prehension that in some cases it was probably 
true, and the subject of preventing that abuse was as earnestly discussed 
with me, by Collector Mott, as by any other man in the service ; and 
finally I recommended the reduction of the salaries as a means of getting 
at it, and as we had a deficiency staring us in the face I reduced their 
salaries from $4 to $3 per day in establishments that operated with less 
than twenty bushels of grain per day. 

By the Ghaikiman : 

Q. Give the date when that was, and as you go on. — A. I think it was 
in April of last year. I will state that it was April of last year, with 
the privilege of correcting it. 

Q. April, 1881?— A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Did you make diligent efforts to find out some instances where there 
had been some division, in order to punish the offenders ? — A. I had my 
agents looking after that. It is a very difficult thing to detect — a thing 
of that kind. Presuming that the distillery was operating according to 
law and there was no fraud in conducting the business, it would be a 
difficult thing to ascertain whether a storekeeper gave the distiller one 
dollar or two dollars a day out of his pay. These distilleries were often 
located in obscure and inaccessible places ; the storekeepers were com- 
pelled to board with the distillers — to take their meals and lodging with 
them; and some of the agents reported, I think, either verbally or in 
writing, that, in their opinion, in many instances the distillers availed 
themselves of that advantage and were charging them very big prices 
for the accommodations, and I presume that was the case. 

Q. That is, the distiller would use his advantage, being out in an iso- 
lated locality, to make as much out of the necessities of the storekeei3er 
as he could, as he had to board somewhere? — A. Yes, sir; I do not pre- 
tend to say that was the case, though I think it is highly probable that 
some of these storekeepers did divide their pay with the distillers. 

Q. But you have not heard of an instance of it, have you? — A. I 
thought I had found that out in the 5th district. 

Q. But in the 6th ? — A. I do not recollect that we did in the Gth. I 
put in writing, and more frequently by word of mouth, a warning to all 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 297 

tlie collectors in these districts, "Now you are dealing with a lot of men 
who have been in the habit of defrauding the government by oi)erating 
illicit distilleries, and it is not to be supposed that their sentiments were 
revolutionized in a minute, and you mus^ watch and see that they do 
not defraud the government through the means of a legal distillery .'' 
We have been struggling to prevent that. To a very large extent the 
people who operate these distilleries are doing so honestly. 

Q. Of course, that applies to the (Jth district as well as to others? — A. 
Yes, sir; and then there is this marvelous improvement — thnt they are 
operatiug fjeacefully, and there is a growing sentiment among the peo- 
ple in that district in favor of the observance and enforcement of the 
laws. 

Q. DidDr.Mott diligently carry out yourinstructionsin thatrespect! — 
A. Yes, sir; I think he did. 

Q. Are you able to speak of the personnel and character of the sub- 
ordinates of Dr. Mott in that district? — A. I have never visited Dr. 
Mott's district in person. 

Q. I mean from the reports. — A. I am not personally acquaintetl with 
many of his subordinates. I have a system of inspections, and his offi- 
cers have been inspected from time to time and reported upon, and con- 
sidering the remarks I made a moment ago in respect to the education 
of the people, they rank very well, and his officers are a very good 
force. Dr. Mott's office ranks first class ; that is, in the manner in which 
the business was prosecuted at the office. The books were well kept; 
the business was, in the main, very promptly attended to, the moneys 
were promptly deposited, the collections promptly made, and all that, 
so his office is ranked as a tirst-class office. 

Q. You have spoken several times of agents; I would like it to go 
upon the record exactly as to who these agents are. — A. An internal- 
revenue agent means an officer sent out from the department here at 
Washington. A revenue agent is an officer who is appointed by the 
Commissioner of Internal Revenue to perform such duties as may be re- 
quired of him by the Commissioner. 

Q. They were not under Dr. Mott, the collector, at all! — A. jSTo, sir. 

Q. And if they should be guilty of any mistake, or of any im])roper 
conduct, the collector was not to be at all responsible? — A. The collect- 
or is not responsible for the conduct of an agent ; the agent is an em- 
ploye of the office. 

Q. Of your office? — A. Yes; he is the eyes, and ears, and hands of 
the Commissioner. 

Q. I ask you that question because there have been some attacks 
made on those agents in several instances. — A. Well, they are men,. 
and they are very likely to err, but as a rnle they are very good men. 

Q. They make their reports to you? — A. Almost daily. 

Q. Are they required to report everything they hear — rumor and 
everything of that kind? — A. They are required to report all violations^ 
of law which they discover, and irregularities which amount to enough 
to be noticed. 

Q. You mean if they suspected, or hear of any, that they would report 
that to you for further investigation ? — A. Mj system is to have a nnm- 
ber of districts grouped together, and I put a man there as an agent 
over a division, and he is there to perform such duties as he is instructed 
to perform in the manual of general instructions, and by special in- 
structions from time to time. If he hears rumors of fraud, it is his busi- 
ness to go and investigate them instantly, or as soon as he can ; and 
then if he finds a fraud, to report it. 



298 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Have you not frequently had them to report frauds or irregular- 
ities which, upon thorough investigation, turned out to be mistakes? — 
A. That question is so general that I could scarcely give a proj)er answer 
to it. 

Q. I do not know about your officers; have yon not reports frequently 
come to your office of irregularities which, upon investigation, were 
susceptible of explanation, and turned out not to be as reported ? — A. 
That of course will happen sometimes in every office, however, and the 
agent may report irregularities of an officer, and upon further investi- 
gation of the subject it may be found that the recommendations that 
are made by the agent may be too severe, and they are not always fol- 
lowed. I have made it an invariable rule not to act upon the report of 
an agent as to the dereliction of a subordinate officer in a collector's 
district without referring the report, either in full or in substance, to 
the collector for his examination. A collector of internal revenue is an 
officer created by law, who is appointed by the President and confirmed 
by the Senate. He gives a bond of $100,000, and the law imposes upon 
him the performance of grave duties, and he is subr^ect to jjains and 
]3enalties if he makes false reports to the Internal -Eevenue. And the 
duty of enforcing the laws is devolved upon him, and I have felt that 
although I may have an intelligent agent to make an investigation of 
an officer, say, of a storekeeper and ganger, or deputy collector, and an 
unfavorable report may be made upon that man — I say I have felt it 
my duty to refer that to the collector, and have him investigate it and 
report, and then base my action upon all the facts as they appear. I 
have pursued that course with Dr. Mott, as collector, as I have with all 
the other collectors in the United States. 

Q. These agents sometimes report upon a collector himself, do they 
not? — iV. They are required to report every officer and every tax-payer 
that they find derelict. 

Q. And if they should report irregularities upon a collector, you would 
investigate it thoroughly, would you not? — A. Oh, yes; I have often 
sent out from my office the deputy commissioner, the chief clerk, or the 
chief of the revenue agents to do this. 

Q. There was an instance in this sixth district relating to office ex- 
penses — something of the nature of assessments on the subordinate offi- 
cers to pay expenses. Do you recollect that f — A. Very well. 

Q. Will you state about that"? Of course, that came to you by report"? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The agent reported it, of course, to you? — A. Oh, yes; I directed 
him to make the investigation. 

Q. And from that agent's report you were leil to believe that there was 
something very wrong about it"? — A. I was led to believe it was irregu- 
lar, and I told Dr. Mott that, and he stopped it. The amount collected 
was something over $300, it was in little dribblets from various places. 
As Mott's office grew in importance from the increase in the number of 
distilleries, it was difficult for him to keep pace, by the allowance made 
with the pressure upon his office and his men. I have no doubt they were 
very hard worked. Well, he had some controversy with the bank in re- 
gard to a check-book. That, i3robably, started the thing. According to 
my recollection of the report], he having three or four hundred subordi- 
nates, and iDaying them once a month by check, he had to have a very 
large check-book; the bank at that time declined to furnish the check- 
book, and he had to buy it, and it was for the benefit of those who re- 
ceived the money that he collected the amount from them. That was 
the explanation that Dr. Mott made for making this little assessment. 



THE SIXTH DLSTRR'T OF NORTH CAROLINA. 299 

TIk'- inoiio.y raised was used to buy ice tor the use of the office, and for 
various little items — I do not know what now; I have the report at my 
office. 

By the Ohatk^ian : 
(}. AVe have it here — Mr. Dwire's report! — A. Yes; that is it. 1 
thought it was irregular and without any reflection on these men as 
guilty of any fraud. I do not think they were guilty of any fraud, but 
it was one of those irregular things that are liable to subject a man to 
censure and suspicion of fraud. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. Did you not judge from the report that there might have been ex- 
cesses in this matter of assessing for office expenses? — A. Whenever 
money is collected in an irregular way and disbursed according to the 
will and pleasure of souiebody it is always liable to that abuse. 

Q. You had it thoroughly investigated? — A. I had it investigated by 
Ml'. Brooks, a very competent man. 

Q. Did you find the money honestly expended and really no dishon- 
•esty about it ? — A. Well, I stated how they had gathered the money for 
these little expenses. It was probably about $300, including the con- 
tributions of the office force, and they have expended it in various little 
ways; this check-book was one thing, costing $18 or $20, and ice, &c. 

Q. They paid a messenger also? — A. Yes; there may have been a 
messenger paid, but then you have that all here. 

Q. I want to know if you had any unfavorable impression in regard 
to Dr. Mott after you had investigated it? — A. I had no idea that there 
was any fraudulent intent about it. If I had I would have recom- 
mended his dismissal; but it might be proper for me to say that I have 
been told by collectors and chief deputies and others that they frequently 
had to buy their ice and raise a little contribution in the office for vari- 
ous little comforts, and of course I have no objection to that. 

(}. You are not positive that there was any item for ice? — A. I do not 
know that there was. It has been now two or three years since I saw 
the rei)ort, and I examined it very carefully at that time. 

(^ You addressed a letter to the subordinates of Dr. Mott inquiring 
if he was indebted to them ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When was that letter addressed to them? — A. I caunot give the 
date now ; I will furnish the date. It was several months ago. 

Q. Did you receive answers from the subordinates ? — A. I received 
gver 300, I think. 

Q. Were they satisfactory ? — A. And I have been called upon for 
coi)ies of them, and am having the coijies made. 

Q. You had the answers examined; were they satisfactory ? — A. Yes; 
I think I read the most of them. So much had been said derogatory to 
Dr. Mott by various people who had visited my office, charging him with 
having received money from his subordinates, or withholding money 
from his subordinates and keeping their salaries, that I concluded that 
I would see what these subordinates had themselves to say about it ; 
and so I addressed this letter to l)etween three and four hundred per- 
sons. Forty or fifty of them had left the service, but I went back to a 
certain period and took those on the rolls from that time down. And 
we got replies from almost all of them, and those letters are such an in- 
dorsement of Dr. Mott as I think would justify his appointment as min- 
ister to England, or nominate him for Congress, or something of that 
kind. His subordinates indorsed him with wonderful unanimity. 



300 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Senator McDill. Those copies will be offered in answer to this mat- 
ter? — A, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Pool. We propose to do that. 

Q. It has been charged that thej followed a certaia form of answer 
which was prepared for them ; did you detect anything of that sort in 
examining the letters'? — A. The letters were all prepared in one day, the 
day that I sent them out. I will give you the history of it. I directed 
the chief clerk to prepare a letter. Dr. Mott knew nothing about it. In 
fact I will state very frankly that Dr. Mott felt greatly aggrieved at 
my sending out such a letter. He knew nothing about the preparation 
of that letter. I sent this letter to the various post-office in the tliirty- 
four counties where these men lived, and within three or four days the 
answers began to pour in, and continued to come in until we got the 
whole of them. There was no form of answer sent out or suggested 
from my office. Dr. Mott was not advised that these letters were to be 
sent, and no one in his district knew anything about it until the letters 
were received there. 

Q. The answers came in promptly from one end of the district to the 
other? — A. Some men turned my letter over and put their answer on 
the back of it. The form of the reply would be necessarily very nearly 
stereotyped, because it was answering two or three questions, and if 
the answers were all the same — that is, if an honest answer from each 
man could be really the same — he necessarily would adopt about the 
same kind of expression. But, then, the letters are not so alike that 
a man would suppose they were all from the same form. 

Q. Dr. Mott issued at one time, and it was brought to your attention, 
instructions that no more warrants should be sworn out. I wish you 
would state that transaction, and what reasons he gave for it. — A. 
Well, lie gave as a reason thattlndge Dick, in a trial of a case, aDowed 
one of the lawyers defending the man, tried for violating the law, to 
abuse in an unwarranted manner one of the internal-revenue officers 
who was a witness. Judge Dick is the father-in-law of the ITnited 
States marshal of North Carolina. The marshal makes his liviug by 
fees. The marshal I have not regarded as an officer deeply interested 
in enforcing the laws in favor of the government. I looked into the 
thing, and instead of allowing that action to stand as a remedy, I 
directed the collector to revoke that order, and stated to him that if 
Judge Dick allowed such proceedings in his court I would instruct the 
district attorney to transfer all these cases to the circuit court, and re- 
tain them on the docket until the circuit judge could be present and try 
them. That is the history of that case. 

Q. And that is the way in which it was disposed of? — A. Yes, sir; I 
know it has been reported to me by agents and officers that our officers 
had been treated with a great deal more respect since that time than 
before in that court. 

Q. You can state generally that Dr. Mott has administered the collec- 
tion of internal revenue in that district faithfully and honestly as far as 
you know? — A. I think he has. 

Q. And you state his success has been eminent? — A. Well, sir, whereas 
in 1867 that district was covered all over with illicit distilleries, and 
men engaged in the fraudulent manufacture of whisky, and the sale of 
tobacco and whisky, and there were bands organized here and therefor 
resistance to the authority of the government, to-day there is peace, 
quiet, order, and observance of the law and payment of the taxes. That 
is the difference. And that has been brought about by Dr. Mott and 
his subordinates, by what I consider to be a very successful effort in 
administering the laws of the government, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 301 

Q. I will ask you if outside pcrsous, liavinj;- no connection with the 
revenue, have not been into your ottice, tiuie and again, witli all sorts of 
rumors and reports deroj^atory to the collector and liis ofticers? — A. 
Well, my ears are open to the complaints of everybody here and there. 
Men have spoken derogatory of Dr. Mott, very generally men who are 
■enemies of his. Dr. Mott, I tind, is a man who lias very strong friends 
and very bitter eneuiies. He is a man of positive parts and character, 
and he usually strikes back, and so he has enemies. 

Q. But you have always Ix'cn ])rompt to investigate anything of that 
«ort which came to your ears ?— A. Oh, yes ; we tried to get at the bot- 
tom of everything that seemed to be wrong in his district, 

Q. And that enabled you to si)eak ])<>sitively when you spoke of the 
manner in which he has executed the law in that district ? — A. I spoke 
from knowledge, because I have studied the question and know all 
iibout it. 

Jiy Senator McDill : 
Q. I will call your attention to a little testimony here, which I think 
it is due to you to notice. J)o you kuow a man by the name of W. C. 
Morrison, a storekeeper and ganger in the sixth district ? I will read to 
you a little of his testimony : He was asked (quoting) : 

Q. Do yon know of auy political assessments levied upon the officers ? — A. The oue 
jier cent, business? 

(I. Political assessments for political purposes? — A. Yes, sir. 

i). State wliat you know about it. — A. They wanted the storekeepers and gangers 
to pay on the campaign fund, tlie way I understand it. 

(^>. Were yon called upon ? — A. Yes, sir. 

(.). For how much?— A. I paid $108. 

(i. What per cent, of your salary was that? — A. For one month, .July, '80. 

And then he goes on afterwards (quoting) : 

Q. Did you hear anything of it afterwards? — A. No, sir; nothing more than I got 
letter from Washington thanking me for the $25 I had sent them. 
Q. You got a letter from Wasliington ? — A. Yes, sir. 
(^. liy whom was that letter signed? — A. By Commissioner Raum, I think. 

And in cross-examination he said the same thing. I want to ask you 
if you have written such a letter? — A. No. Remittances were never 
made to me. 

The Clerk. Mr. Morrison, in his cross-examiiuition, corrected that, 
Senator, and mentioned that lie could not say whether it was Mr. Kaum 
or not. 

The Witness. No money for political purposes was ever remitted 
to me. 

Q. As Commissioner of Internal Revenue, or to you personally? — A. 
No, sir. 

The Chairman. He meant Mr. Jewell. 

The Witness. If not Mr. Jewell, the secretary of the national com- 
mittee. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q. How are deputy collectors appointed, and by whom commis- 
sioned? — A. They are appointed by the collector of internal revenue, 
and he issues the warrant of appointment. 

Q. Is there not a record of that appointment in your office ? — A. Yes, 
jsir ; they are required to re[)ort from time to time. 

Q. Whom they have appointed ? — A. They are required to report at 
the commencement of each fiscal year the appointees nnder the allow- 
ance of that 3'ear, so that we will understand in the offices how to adjust 



302 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

the account, and wlien tLey make a change in the officers they are re- 
quired to report the date of change. 

Q. All ofticer dismissed and another appointed in his place — tiiey 
report that. Tliat is what you mean by a change? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How are they paid — I mean now as to the manner of delivering 
them the money 1 — A. Well, the collector can either pay them in money 
or pay by draft. That depends upon the arrangement he has. 

Q. Can he do as he pleases about that? Is there not a regulation pre- 
scribing how he shall ])ay them ? — A. No, sir; there is no regulation that 
they shall pay them by draft. It is usual to pay them by draft, because 
generally the depository is in the town where the office is situated — that 
is, with most collectors — and tliey simj)ly give a check on the bank for 
the money. The storekeepers are paid in the same way. 

Q. Your iwesent answer would be that this is a matter of convenience 
with" the collector, and not one of regulations? — A. Yes, sir. Tbe 
vouchers in the way of the checks that are given by the collector to the 
officers are not sent here. He takes the man's receipt and forwards 
that. He retains the check. 

Q. The check, if kept by anybody, is kepb by the bank ? — A. The col- 
lector in settling with the bank gets his check back. 

Q. Certainly. Is it permissible and lawful for a man to draw double 
pay — as a deputy collector and as a ganger, for instance? — A. 'No, sir* 
we do not aim to have a man draw double pay. 

Q. If he draws full jiay in one capacity, and does work in another, 
can he draw pay for both ? — A. There has been some controversy and 
some legislation upon that subject, and I believe it is settled now by 
decisions of the courts that he can only draw pay in one case. 

Q. Has it been the custom in the sixth district to allow double pay to 
officers ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Would the Comptroller adjust an account with double pay for a 
man, if he knew^ it ? — A. Up to a certain period of time — the date I can- 
not give without reference to papers at the office — I think that Comp- 
troller Tayler held that where a man held two commissions, the double 
compensation for which did not exceed $2,500 and he performed the 
duties of both, he could draw that pay. That is my recollection. 

Q. Now, on Mr. Taylor's ruling, if it did exceed §2,500 he could not? 
— A. He could not. Not long before Mr. Taylor died, I had a dis- 
cussion with him about that, and I think that was his ruling up to 
a certain time, and Congress then stepped in, and iiassed some law upon 
the subject, and we have now sections 1764 and 1765, which constitute 
the law of the case at this time. 

Q. Do deputy collectors make out what are termed "Uiaiy Eeports," 
showing what they have done every day? — A. They do now. 

Q. How long since they have been compelled to do so ? — A. It is 
recent ; within the last four or five years. It was an invention of mine. 
The old form 63 did not contain these. It was just simply an account. 
It was in the year 1877 or 1878, probably. I know it was adopted dur- 
ing Mr. Taylor's administration as Comptroller, as I adopted it after 
consulting with him. 

Q. In reference to the drawing of double paj^, I find the following" 
law, which seems to have been on the statute-book iii the year 1842 : 

Sec. 1765. No officer in any branch of tlie j^nblic service, or any other pei'son whose 
salary, pay, or emolnments are fixed by law or regulations, shall receive any addi- 
tional pay, extra allowance, or compensation in any form whatever, for the disburse- 
ment of pnblic money, or for any other service or duty whatever, nnless the same is 
authorized by law, aud the appropriation therefor exjilicitly states that it is for such 
additional pay, extra allowance, or compensation. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 303 

A. That, I would say, relates to the particular office be is liolding-. 
That says "no officer" shall do so — receive extra pay and extra coui- 
l)cnsation, «S:c. 

Q. You do not hold tliat this law has l>een binding ujjou you in the 
sense that I put it — receiving double pay? — A. We are not paying any 
of our people double pay, that I am aware of. 

Q. Some three or four instances have been proven before tliis com- 
mittee. 

Senator Mitchell. Not acting in the same official capacity. 

The CnATRMAN. Walker drawing full pay as a deputy collector and 
as a ganger. 

The Witness, What was the aggregate? 

The Chairman. The aggregate must have been about $3,000. 

Mr. Pool. 1 think not. 

The Chairman. His ])ay as a ganger was !|150 per month, and his 
pay as deputy collector $100 a month. 

Mr. Pool. Though it was double pay, it does not extend through a 
whole year. 

The Chairman. I do not understand it is only for that period, cov- 
ered by Mr. Kestler's vouchers, nine montlis, but liave no doubt the bal- 
ance was there. 

The Witness. I can show you the regulations upon this subject. Dr. 
Mott called my attention this morning to the fact that 1 might be inter- 
rogated upon this matter. I found it difficult to have gauging done in 
some districts, and on the 7th March, 1877, I issued this circular: 

1 1877. Departmeut Xo. 37. Internal revenue.] 
Circular letter No. 39. Modifying circular letter No. 19. 

Treasury Department, Office of Internal Revenue, 

Wushingion, March 7, 1877. 

Sir: With the apJ)^o^'al of the Secretary of the Treasury, circuUir letter No. 19 is 
hereby modified as follows: 

Whenever it becomes impracticable for collectors to secure the services of persons 
who -will accept the office of ganger, owing to the inadequacy of the compensation, 
they will be permitted to nominate for appointment as gangers one or more of their 
deputies, who will perform the work without extra compensation or fees, but actual 
traveling expenses incuiTed for gauging will be allowed. 
Respectfullv, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commimouer. 
That is the regidation since March, 1S77. 

The Chairman. The section preceding that Avhich I have just read 
reads as follows : 

Sec. 1764. No allowance or compensation shall be made to any officer or clerk, by 
reason of the discharge of duties which belong to any other officer or clerk in the same 
or any other department; and no allowance or compensation shall be made for any 
extra services whatever, which any officer or clerk may be required to perform, un- 
less expressly authorized by law. 

A. Now, in reply to that, and as a commer.t upon the section, I will 
say, ^^) to about March 1, 1879, the deputy collector was not held to be 
an officer of the government. He was held to be an employe of the col- 
lector. If you turn to the Herudon case, loth Court of Claims Eeports, 
page 140, you will see that opinion sustained; so that that privilege 
which relates to an officer of the government, up to the act of March 1, 
1879, would not be applicable to a deputy collector of internal revenue. 
The act of March 1, 1879, however, puts these deputy collectors on a 
different footing altogether, as held by this decision. 

Q. Were not the emoluments or pay of the deputy collectors, clerks, 



"304 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

&c., fixed by regnlations ? Somebodj^ fixed them, did he not ? — A. Origi- 
nally there was an allowance made to the collector of so much money — 
say there is $10,000. He could employ five or ten men ; so that he lived 
within the money that was allowed him and collected the revenue he 
was all right. That arrangement went on for some time. Finally, the 
■oflice prescribed the number to be employed and fixed their salaries, 
but still under the law they were the employes of the collector; but the 
act of March 1, 1879, shifted them over to the list of employes -^f the 
government — made provision for their employment by the government. 

Q. How was the compensation of a ganger fixed — by law or by regu- 
lation I — A. Both by law and by regulation. The law fixes the maxi- 
mum, and provides that he shall be paid for gauging ujion the regula- 
tions prescribed hj the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. 

Q. How would you construe this section, [tsTo. 1765 (quoting) 1 

No officer in any brancli of the pnhlic service or any other person whose salary, pay, 
or eui'^luments are fixed by law or regnlations, shall receive any additional pay, ex- 
tra allowance, or compensation in any form whatever. 

ISTow if a gauger's pay was fixed by law or by regulations, had you 
any authority to allow him extra pay for doing work as a deputy collec- 
tor? — A. Well, that would raise the construction of the laws — that I 
suggested awhile ago — that Comptroller Taylor held. He has a differ- 
ent department, and has not the same commission ; he has a different 
commission altogether; and the question is whether you can say, if he 
performs his duties under this other commission, that it is extra pay. 

Q. No •' extra allowance or compensation in any form whatever" ? — A. 
I see that raises the question whether you will call that c tra compensa- 
tion ; you can see what construction I put upon it. 

Q. I do not think it was lawful to pay those men double pay.,'jt the 
time it was done. — A. That may possibly be so ; but, as I told you, my 
recollection now is that the Com^^troller held where a man held a posi- 
tion and performed the duties under it, but the pay did not exceed 
$2,500, that he could be paid under both of them. 

Q. I will ask you when a voucher for the expenses — we will say of 
the collector's offtce — arrives at your ofQce, what is done with it ; whose 
hands does it go into in the first place ? — A. The division of accounts is 
•composed of some 25 or 30 persons, and we have it divided so as to have 
■different men assigned to different portions of the work. I do not recall 
the number that are on that work ; will make an examination of the 
accounts. 

Q. What position does he hold ? — A. He is a clerk. 

Q. Simply a clerk? — A. Yes, sir; that division has two geutlemen, 
$1,800 clerks, Mr. Goodman and Mr. Lay, who have charge, you may say, 
one or the other of them. When one is away the other has generally 
charge of the books. The division itself is under the direction of the 
deputy commissioner. These deputy collectors' accounts are in the 
hands of four clerks. 

Q. (Handing paper to witness.) Just describe what course that voucher 
would take — it is one of the Kestler vouchers. 

Mr. Pool. What is the date of that ? 

The Chairman. October, 1872. Just describe what would first be 
done with that account when it came in. — A. The accounts of deputy 
collectors, when they reach my office, are placed in the hands of six 
'Cleiks. They examine them to see if they conform to the allowances. 
The diary report is torn from the account and retained in my office. If 
the account is in form, with the proper certificates and affidavits, i&c, 
attached, it is sent forward to the Fifth Auditor's Office. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOKTil CAROLINA. 305 

Q. Then what does he do with it? — A. I do not know tlie manij)ula- 
tion. 1 know what the result of it is. Tliey examine, and make an ac- 
connt of it on their books, as we do in onr office ; he states the account 
and sends it forward to tlie First Comptroller v/ith a certificate that he 
found such an amount due this man. 

Q. Then wliat does the First Comptroller do? — A. The First Comp- 
troller has men assigned to the internal-revenue work; and when that 
accouii.t reaches the First Comj)tro]ler it goes to that division of his 
office; c.jey examine it with a view to ascertaining', in the first i)lace, 
whether it conforms to the allowance, and in the next place whether 
there is an appropriation under which the account can properly be au- 
dited and paid ; and when they find the account in accordance with 
the law they settle it and it goes forward then as i^roperly credited to 
the collector of internal revenue, who acts as disbursing agent. You 
know that is not like passing the account for a warrant, because the 
warrant has already been issued to the collector, and he has drawn the 
money and has it to his credit; but it is passing an account to carry to 
the credit of the collector on his disbursing account. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. So as to know what balance is unexpended? — A. What is unex- 
pended; yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I want to know if each department through which it passes does 
not make some mark or stamp upon it to show that it has passed 
through that department f — A. The practice in my department now is 
to have every paper, of every description, stamped on the day it is re- 
ceived. That is the first thing, and then where it is necessary to make 
any noies or comments on it this is done. 

Q. It bears some mark that it has passed through that office! — A. 
Yes, sir. Of course it is possible for a paj^er sometimes to miss, but this 
is very rare. 

Q. I see, now, an account here, for instance, a voucher of W, H. Kest- 
ler, dated January, 1873, with a stamp on the back of it; what is that, 
can vou say (handing paper to witness) ? — A. That is the Fifth Audi- 
tor's Office, May 12, 1873. 

Q. There is what is called an amended voucher for the same man, 
reducing the amount to $05, &c. ; I will ask you if there is any office 
mark on that similar to the other (handing paper to witness)? — A. (Ex- 
amining). Xo, sir ; I do not observe the stamp of any office upon it. 

Q. Or the initials of any clerk? — A. There is no stami> on the 
amended. 

Q. Now I will ask you to look at the date of the amended voucher, 
and say what it is ? — A. The amended voucher purports to be sworn 
and signed the 11th day of September, 1874, before J. M. Horah, clerk 
of the superior court. 

Q. Will you please look at the Comptroller's certificate of adjustment 
attached to the same ; what date is that ? — A. The stamp of the Fifth 
Auditor bears the date of May 12, 1873. 

Q. That was when he adjusted the account? — A. That is when he 
sent it forward to the First Comptroller. 

Q. Do you see the Comptroller's certificate, and what date that is ? — 
A. This certificate is dated June 2, 1873. 

Q. Are you not mistaken about that ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What do you make that, down there (indicating) ? — A. I was look- 
ing there. 

S. Miss. IIG 20 



30G COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. You are on tlie wrong paper? — A. No; that (indicating) is tlie 
Comptroller's Office, and this is the Auditor's. This is the Comptroller's, 
dated June 2, 1873. 

Q. The Fifth Auditor's report is made May 12, 1873, and the Comp- 
troller's is June 2, 1873? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, inasmuch as that voucher was sworn to, at what date, was 
the amended sworn to in 1874? — A. September 11, 1874. 

Q. That being so, that voucher could not have been i^resent when the 
Auditor and Comptroller adjusted that account, could it? — A. I should 
say no. 

Q. I will ask you to look the reports over, and say if the same can- 
not be said of these other vouchers that purport to be amended. I will 
ask you if this amended abstract bears any marks of the office showing 
the date when it was received at your office (handing Exhibit 13 to wit- 
ness)? — A. (Examining.) No, sir; it does not. 

Q. State when it purports to have been sworn to — on the opposite 
side. — A. (Examining.) September 21, 1874. 

Q. So it could not have been present when the Auditor and Comptroller 
adjusted the account? — A. I think not. ^ 

Q. I will ask you just to glance at these succeeding vouchers, and say 
if they are in the same position. This one for the succeeding quarter 
from January 1, 1873; does the abstract put in any other showing, show- 
ing when it was received in your office? — A. No, sir; there is not. 

Q. And Avhen was it sworn to? — A. It bears date September 21, 
1874. 

Q. The same as the other amended abstract? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, when does the Auditor's and Comptroller's certificates ap- 
pear upon it?— A. The Fifth Auditor's Office, June 16, 1873; the First 
Comptroller's Office, July 7, 1873. 

Q. Will you look at the original abstract, if you please, that you have 
in your hand, and read over the names of the deputies? — A. (Witness, 
reading compensation account. No. 6875.) J. A.Ramsay, W. P. Drake, 
and W. H. Kestler. 

Q. Will you please look at the amended abstract and read the names 
there of the deputies? — A. Ramsay, Drake, and Walker. 

Q. Kestler's name does not appear ? — A. Kestler's name seems not to 
appear. 

Q, Will you please look at the vouchers for the quarter ending the 
30th of June, 1873, and say if the amended abstract bears any office 
mark ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Will you please see when it purports to be sworn to ? — A. Sworn 
to September 21, 1874, before W. T. Bailey. 

Q. The same as the others? — A. Yes, sir; and sworn to before the 
same man. 

Q. Please see the dates of the Auditor's and Comptroller's certificates. 
— A. The Auditor's, October 8, 1873; the Comptroller's, November 15, 
1873. 

Q. That abstract could not have been present when the Auditor and 
Comptroller adjusted the accounts? — A. Of course it was not present; 
the account was adjusted on the original abstract, and the vouchers are 
in excess of the allowance. A subsequent abstract was sent in to con- 
form with the allowance and statement of the Comptroller. 

Q. Will you please read the names of the deputies in the original ab- 
stract — just the deputies? — A. J. A. Ramsay, J. T. Mcintosh, J. Q. A. 
Bryan, N. W. Lillington, W. H. Kestler, W. M. Walker, J. H. Perry. 

Q. That is all the deputies there ? — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 307 

Q. Please read the deputies in the amended abstract. — A. J. A. 
Eainsav, J. T. Mcliitosli, J. (,). A. Brvan, W. Lillington, H. Y. Mott, W. 
M. Walker, P. E. Martin, J. H. Perry; that is all. 

Q. On the original abstract the name of Mr. Kestler appears, but not 
on the amended ; that is so, is it not '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But on the original abstract the name of H. Y". Mott did not ap- 
pear, but it is in the amended ? — A. Yes, sir; that is correct. That was 
for 1873; things were a little loose then. I do not know what ex|)lana- 
tion they have to make for these things ; they sometimes had deputj' 
deputies in those days. 

Q. Here is a voucher for W. M. Walker for service rendered for the 
period commencing 31st of December, 1872, and ending March 31, 
1873. I will ask you to look at that and see if it bears anj^ oftice marks 
showing the date of its filing (paper handed to witness). — A. (Exam- 
ining.) It does not; no, sir. 

Q. Here is another one, for the period commencing April 1,1873, and 
ending May 20, 1873. I will ask you if any office marks are on that, if 
you can see them (paper handed to witness) ? — A. ISTo, sir ; I do not 
see any oflfice^iuarks on this ; there are some pencil figures here on the 
back, I presume put there b}" the clerk who has handled the paper 
there at the office. 

Q. Here is one voucher for H. Y^. Mott for service commencing March 
31, 1873, and ending June 30, 1873, for $332.97. I will ask you to look 
if there are any office marks on that (paper handed to witness) ? — A. 
(Examining.) There is no stamp visible. 

Q. Or anything to show when it was received at the office? — A. Xo, 
sir. 

Q. I will ask you if you can give rae the year when these papers were 
filed in your office — these amended vouchers — which I have ¥;hown yo u 
without stamps or marks ? — A. I cannot answer that <iuestion. They 
bear the date of 1872 and 1873 — the lust quarter of 1872 and the two 
first quarters of 1873. They bear date prior to mj^ accession to oftice. I 
can only say this in regard to these papers : that when I was called upon 
to produce these papers they were found in their proper place in the 
office of the Kegister of the Treasury; and they were obtained by me 
from him, and put in proper form, and sent by me to this committee. I 
have no doubt that they were received in due course by the officer who 
adjusted the account. It is highly probable that the First Comptroller 
corresponded directly, as they constantly do, with the collector with re- 
gard to the adjustment of his account; and I have no doubt myself that 
an examitmtion of the Comptroller's files will show that he wrote to the 
collector in regard to that adjustment, and that ttere is a letter on file 
from the collector transmitting these papers that we are now talking 
about. I have no doubt the records of the office are entirely complete. 
I would suppose from the omission of those file-marks that they were 
sent directly to the Comptroller. I think if you will examine these pa- 
pers you will find that the Comptroller does not use a stamp on any of 
them. In fact there is nostamiJ of my office on these papers, but there 
is of the Fifth Auditor's Office. 

Q. It did not pass, then, through the regular channels? — A. Y"es, sir; 
I do not say they passed through the whole of the channels, but I pre- 
sume the First Comptroller, when he adjusted that account, wrote to the 
collector and stated the discrepancies that were in that account, and the 
collector corresponded directly with him and forwarded those accounts 
to him. Now the statement we find here gives the dates when those 
papers were received from the Fifth Auditor's Oftice. While these pai^ers 



308 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

passed throiigli my office originally tbey do not seem to have been 
stamped in the office. And while they i)assed from the Fifth Auditor's 
Office to the First Comptroller's Office they do not seem to have been 
stamped by the Comptroller's Office; so that if sent by Dr. Mott to the 
Comptroller's Office there would be no marks on the pajjers, showing* 
when received at that office. 

Q. Would not the Comptroller have put some stamp on the certifi- 
cates when received, if he had seen them, or just filed them without 
anything- on them whatsoever 1 — A. Take this voucher of W. M. Walk- 
er's, dated April 18, 1872; that bears the stamp of the Fifth Auditor's 
Office; but there is not the slightest indication on that jDaper that it was 
ever in the Office of the Internal Revenue or the First Comptroller ; but 
yet that paper has passed through both of these offices and gone to the 
Register's Office, but there is no indication on the paper that the Register 
ever received it, but he did receive it, because we got that paper from 
his office. In my office, now, papers are stamped as they come in. 

Q. In that suit between Collector Mott and J. A. Ramsey, Mr. Ram- 
sey applied to your office for copies of the vouchers in his case, did he 
not, to be used in his suit? — A. I cannot tell as to that. That is, I can- 
not state from my personal knowledge. I understand, however, that 
he did. 

Q. What I wished to call your attention to, was the application for 
coi)ies of those vouchers to be used in that law suit, that nothing- but 
the original vouchers were copied, and I want to ask you if you had 
undertaken to give a copy of the record, if the amended vouchers 
would not have been put in this copy ? — A. I do not understand that 
this man gave but one voucher. I do not understand that Mr. Ramsey 
gave but one voucher. He gave a receipt for $450. 

Q. Here is what it purports to be (quoting) : 

United States of America. 

Treasury Department, 

JSiovemher 3, 1877. 
Pursuant to section 882 of the Eevised. Statutes, I hereby certify that the annexed 
papers are true copies of tlie originals on hie in this department. 

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set ray hand, and caused the seal of the Treas- 
ury Department to he affixed, on the day and year hrst above wiitten. 

[seal.] JOHN SHERMAN, 

Secretary of the Treasnri/. 

Mr. Pool. Those are the original vouchers. 

The Chairman. What were sent were copies of the originals. 

Mr. Pool. They were copies of the originals; is not that what Mr. 
Ramsey asked for 1 

The Chairman. Yes, sir; he asked for copies of the vouchers in this 
office. The certificate says these are true copies of the originals in his 
office. The papers filed by outside jjarties would be originals, and copies 
that would be furnished would be copies of the originals. 

Q. When an amended voucher is filed with the original it then be- 
comes the voucher as amended 1 — A. Yes, I should say so. 

Q. Now, if the Secretary would certify he had given true copies of 
the original vouchers on file, and it was found that these amended ones 
were rdt in the office in 1877, according to the course of the office, you 
would say they were not in the office, or he would have sent copies of 
them "? — A. Of course ; I do not know what Dr. Mott applied for. 

Q. Dr. Mott did not apply for them; it was Mr. Ramsey who applied 
for the vouchers for use in his suit ? — A. The whole adjustment. 



THE SIXTH DI.STRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 309 

Q. Aim! tbey soiit liiiii coi>ies of abstracts all the way tlirougli, and if 
the anieiuled abstract had be(3ii in, and attached to tlie orif;inal wlien 
this copy was made in 1877, it would have been copied there, would it 
not? — A. But you see that if the amended abstract was not copied, that 
it w'as an omission upon the part of the clerk, if it was there, in not 
doing it, because I think the amended abstract is necessary to the 
I)roper explanation of the transaction. 

Q. That is all I wish to show. — A. You will understand, Mr. Chair- 
man, that these vouchers were not attached — fastened together in this 
form — in the Kegister's Office. 

(The witness alluded to the collection of papers attached to compen- 
sation account No. GS7o.) 

Q. That is the work of your office for the convenience of the commit- 
tee ? — A. Yes, sir ; the statement of the account of the Comptroller, with 
the vouchers attached, were not found fastened together in the office, 
but were brought together and fastened in my office for the convenience 
of examination by the committee. 

The Chairman. I desire to put in evidence the request of Mr. Eamsey 
for the copies of the vouchers and the answer of Mr. Ela in sending the 
same, nuuked Exhibit 29. 

ExniiuT 29. 

Sali.siil'RY. No. Ca., Oct. 31st, '77. 
Sir: I have tLe honor to re(|ucst that you have sent to ine by mail, as soon as pos- 
sible, certified copies, according to law, of the forms G'.i (the expense account on which 
depulies' vouchers are entered), for the (|narter ending Mar. 31st, June 30th, Sept. 30, 
and Uecr. 31st, 72, and Mar. 31st, and ,Iuue 30th, 1873. Also copies of the form on 
which the postage vouchers are entered, and copies of all the vouchers signed by D. 
S. liringle, postmaster. Also photograph copied of the forms 63i, signed by William 
H. Kestler, Dept. Collr. (There are three of them for quarters ending Deer. 72, and 
Mar. and June, 73). If Mr. Kestler'a vouchers cannot be i)hotographed I do not 
want them. 

I do most earnestly request that these papers be sent me by Saturday's mail, the 3d 
of November, as I need them to enable me to defend myself in a suit in court against 
uie. 

Hoping that it will be your pleasure to grant my request, 
I am, very trulv, vour friend, 

' ^ JOHN A. RAMSAY. 

To Hon. Ela, 

Fifth Auditor, WuMugioii, D. C. 

P. S. — Please let me know by return mail whether I may expect the papers or not. 
Yours truly, 

JOHN A. RAMSAY. 

Treasury Department, Fifth Auditor's Office, 

WasMnf/ton, November 3, 1877. 
Sir: Your letter of the 31st ultimo, requesting to be furnished with copies of cer- 
tain papers filed with the account of J. J. Mott, collector 6th district. North Carolina, 
has been received, and in compliance therewith, I send you copies of all the papers 
called for, except the photograph copiesofKestlers vouchers which cannot be furnished, 
there being no provision for such work in the department. 
Respectfullv vours, 

^ ^ J. 11. ELA, Auditor. 

Joiix A. Ramsay, 

Late Dep. Collector 6th District, SaJishury, X. C. 

Q. Can you swear that H. Y^ Mott, J. T. Mcintosh, and W. M. Walker 
were on the rolls as deputy collectors in 1872 and 1873 '?— A. I cannot 
answer that without an examination of the records. I will do that if 
you wish it of me. 

Q. I would like if you will also see — the certificate would be sufficient 
without coming again — whether there are any original vouchers for 



310 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

tliese parties tliat I have sliown yon, where amended ones have been 
pnt in ; for instance fonr, W. M. Walker, J. T. Mcintosh, H. Y. Mott, and 
one other whom I do not recollect now. The vouchers I showed you 
were all amended as yon saw. — A. All the vouchers amended? 

Q. They are all new vouchers, and put in subsequent to the time of 
the service, and after the auditing and adjusting of the account by the 
Auditor and Comptroller ; we call them amended vouchers. I will ask 
you to examine your office and see if there are not originals on file. I 
suppose if there are you would have sent them up to me when you sent 
the amended ones. — A. I will reply that these vouchers did not remain 
in my office at all. They go to the Fifth Auditor and the First Comp- 
troller and the Register and he is the grand depositary of all these pa- 
pers. Of course if they are to be found they are to be found in the Reg- 
ister's Office. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of the amount of political assessments 
raised from the officers of the sixth district in 1880, we will say ? — A. I 
do not know; I have no way of knowing. 

Q. Have you not any means of knowing? — A. 'No, sir. 

Q.- Were these asssessments levied by your authority or with your 
consent? — A. Not in the least; I was not consulted about it. 

Q. Is it permissible under your administration for a storekeeper to 
be a kinsman of the distiller? — A. I aim at all times to have a store- 
keeper entirely disinterested, if I know it. Of course in a large dis- 
trict like Mott's, covering half a State almost, it may be possible, as it 
happens in some other districts of the country, that a relative of the 
distiller may, in some distant part, by another name, get commissioned 
as an officer, and by some inadvertence be assigned to the Avrong dis- 
tillery. You understand I assign them upon the recommendation of 
the collector °? 

Q. Yes,-sir. — A. A thing of that kind we might find, but it would be 
an inadvertence, not intentional. You can see how a man by the name 
of Smith would be running a distillery, and a man by the name of Jones 
would be commissioned, and Jones sent to Smith s distillery without our 
knowing he was his brother-in-law. 

Q. In relation to these small distilleries, you authorized or originated 
the plan of starting small distilleries, that would enable poor men to 
run a distillery, and you said they would net the government $10 a day ? — 
A. It would be a margin of taxes over and above the expenses. I did 
not say what amount. 

Q. i understood you to say |10 per day. — A. Yes; |5 to $10 per day. 

Q. Taking a four- bushel distillery, and allowing them two gallons of 
whisky to the bushel, that would make eight gallons of whisky; the tax 
on it would be $7.20, out of which would come $3 for the storekeeper? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That would not pay the government a large margin? — A. $4.20 a 
day. I think that is better than allowing a man to run, and not getting 
anything from him. 

Q. Undoubtedly you thought that would encourage men to distill 
lawfully, instead of trying to blockade? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When a man had a twelve-bushel still, was it necessary for his 
encouragement to let him divide it into three or four stills ? — A. I have 
thought about that a great many times, because I have known of men 
having distilleries very close together, where a man started his distillery 
this month here on a branch and next month started another one not a 
great ways off. 

Q. A little higher uj) the branch? — A. That has been brought to my 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 311 

attention. I have consnlted with mj^ law advisers and others bow that 
could be i)revented, and I liave not understood that I would have any 
authority to prevent a man who was operating two small distilleries, or 
require him to consolidate them, no more than I could require a man 
owning two large distilleries to consolidate them. 

Q. Could there be any other motive with the men doing this than to 
derive some benefit from the pay of the storekeeper '? — A. I will tell you 
very frankly, I think that was a motive. We have fought against it, 
and finally I reduced their pay to $3 a day. 

Q. You s])oke of Dr. Mott's administration as being "eminently suc- 
cessful"; what was the percentage that it cost to collect the revenue 
in that district? — A. Oh, it was very large; my report will show. 

Q. Your report shows what it was a year ago. Your report for this 
fiscal year is not out yet. — A. It was very large, but I do not thinlc 
that the officers stole any money. 

Q, That may be. — A. I do not think that there was an excessive num- 
ber of people employed to enforce the laws. 

Q. That expenditure was about 54 per cent., I believe ? — A. I do not 
remember the per cent. It was very large. 

Q. It was over 50 per cent ? — A. I would not venture to say. 

Q. If you have got it stated, that will be sufficient. — A. It is large, 
very large. 

Q. (Suppose you add to that the expense of the judicial part, in the 
proceedings of the courts ; that expense is not added to your depart- 
ment. Would it not make it still larger 1 — A. Oh, yes. 

Q. Would it not make it 75 or 80 per cent. ? — A. I could not tell what 
these exi)enses were. I have not looked into that. 

Q. Of course no one could tell unless the expenses of the revenue de- 
partment were separated from the other expenses of the court, and that 
Ave have no means of doing that I know of. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At all events that would add very considerably to the cost of the 
collection. — A. The object of it was to suppress these frauds, and to do 
it at whatever cost was necessary. As I stated awhile ago I thought it 
was better to have an honest observance and enforcement of the laws 
at a large expense than to have turmoils, confusion, and discord, and a 
community of men engaged in the illicit manufacturing and selling of 
whisky ; and the result is, that we have followed that system of ^idmin- 
istration, and I think when you go bome and look it over closely you 
will see, if you consider the matter dispassionately, the results have 
been in favor of law and order. 

Q. That is your opinion ; whether it is mine or not is another matter, 
of course. Under this system of political assessments the more officers 
are appointed the greater the amount of the aggregate assessments 
would be. — A. It is a matter of arithmetic. There is no question that 
if you have three hundred officers and you receive $100 apiece from 
them that you have more money than you would have if you had a 
hundred officers and got $100 apiece. 

Q. So it was advantageous, in a party sense, to increase the number 
of officers also? — A. I will answer that fully. I have never authorized 
the employment of a deputy collector, clerk, or storekeeper and ganger 
for party purposes. I have authorized the employment of these people 
for the purposes of enforcing the laws. I have always thought that 
when we overcame illicit distillers in those States, and showed them 
that the government was not undertaking to impair their rights as citi- 
zens, and they threw oft" the scales that were upon their eyes, that, like 
well-intentioned men out in Iowa, they would vote the Republican 



312 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

ticket; and I tliiuk you will iincl enougli of them that will vote the ticket 
this fall to carry the State. 

Q. About those squads you spoke of that were employed, was there 
not a considerable increase of expenses for policing? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I will ask you if they were not actively employed in campaigning 
at the same time, carrying and distributing documents, getting up con- 
ventions, &c.? — A. If they were 1 was not aware of it. 

Q. You have never issued anything like a civil service reform order, 
forbidding them to do it? — A. I hold myself to be the most practical 
civil-service reformer in this country; I hold that a true civil service is 
to have no more ofBcers than needed, and to pay them reasonable sala- 
ries requiring them to perform their duties faithfully and honestly, and 
then to allow them to go forward and to exercise their right as citizens 
and do whatever political work they can conveniently for their party. 

Q. You mean lor the Kepublican party? — A. Well, I would not ap- 
point a Democrat if I knew it; for L think the true policy of partj^ ad- 
ministration is to appoint its friends so as to uphold its principles. 

Q. You spoke something of the monthly estimates, 1 think you called 
it, that the collector had to make to the office in order to enable the 
department to judge of the propriety of the amount of his allowance; 
the monthly estimate of the collectors for their expenses in the office? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. 1 understood you that they were required to make a monthly es- 
timate to you ? — A. I know the allowance, and I know the number of 
persons that they have employed. They report that now. If a man is 
oft' a month and away — say, the allowance has been made for a deputy 
collector — and this man has been moved, and his salary was $100 per 
month, in the next requisition he would omit to draw for that salary; 
and when we came to investigate the requisition, we would see whether 
he was drawing the exact amount that was necessary to pay the men 
there on duty. 

Q. Is it custo.mary, legal, or proper, in any sense, to file vouchers in 
the name of one man, iu order to draw money for another man ? — A. 
that is not a proper way to transact business at any time. 

Q. Are officers required to swear to their accounts ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
that is the form of the voucher upon which they make out their ac- 
counts, 

Q. Could I get those monthly estimates of collector Mott for the year 
1873 ? — A. I will see whether they can be obtained. 

Q. Of course you know the character of re venue agent A. H.Brooks ? — 
A. Very well. 

Q. What is it ? — A. He is a most excellent officer. 

Q. What is it as a man ? — A. A trustworthy man iu every respect. 

Q. And Mr. McLeer ?— A. Good man. 

Q. And Mr. Clia])man and Mr. Kellogg ? — A. Chapman is a very 
good man. No better man in the country than Kellogg. He would 
make a first-iate United States Senator. Yes, sir ; he is a first-class 
man. 

Q. And Mr. Wagner? — A. Jacob Wagner is a man of most excellent 
ability, and trustworthy in every respect. I have assigned the very best 
officers we had in the service to your State. 

Q. In reference to this matter of office exjienses, there was levied one 
per cent, a month, was there not, by the collector? — A. I cannot give 
you the contents of that report now^ without examining it. I do not 
think that all the officers paid. , 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 313 

Q. lint we have f;ot the ])aper here, and it show.s it was one per cent. — 
A. Jt was S()uietliiii<i' like that. 

Q. If there were the three or four hundred officers in the district you 
spoke of — I sui>pose there are more than four hundred officers in the 
district all told '! — A. I do not reniend)er the number; three or four hun- 
dred. 

Q. There is one storekeeper to each distillery in operation, and then 
some general storekeepers, (lei)uties, and special deputies ? — A. Yes, 
sir: the sp«H;ial de])uties' em])Ioymeiit is about over. 

Q. If tliey carried that out for three hundred officers it \vould have 
yielded about .$300 ])er mouth, would it not, if the salaries averaged 
$100 a month? — A. If the salaries aveiaged $100 it would be a dollar 
ai)iece. 

Q. That would l)e rather much for the incidental expenses of an office 
like a collector's, would it not? — A. AVell, I thouglit it was an improi)er 
thing to levy, and I stoi)ped it; they had collected about $300, but I 
think this amount h;id been spread over several months. From what I 
g^athered from Mr. Brooks, there was no great amount of pressure 
brought to bear upon these people to induce them to contribute, but it 
was simply' to pay office expenses. 

Q. You say letters were sent out by you to all the officers on the sub- 
ject, inquiring what they had paid, «&c.? — A. Yes, sir. i^ot to know 
what they had paid. No, I did not send letters for that. 

Q. AVhat did you send letters to them for? — A. In regard to these 
office assessments? Xo, I did not send letters to those persons. I 
directed Mr. Brooks to make the investigation. 

Q. Perhaps a letter was sent out relating to the subjectof the charges 
that Dr. Mott had retained some of their money, and refused to ])ay 
them, &c. — A. I would have to refresh my memory whether I sent a 
letter to these people in regard to these office expenses. 

Q. I understood you to say so when you rejdied to Mr. Pool. — A. 
That was in regard to whether they had been paid or not. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You sent a circular letter to the subordinates of Dr. ]\[ott on both 
subjects — on the subject whether he owed them anything, and also what 
they paid for office expenses. — A. If I did 1 had forgotten about that 
letter. I do not believe that I sent that sort of a letter. 

Mr. Pool. We have a hundred answers to it. 

Senator McDill. I understood these answers were in regard to these 
very questions. — A. I cannot tell; I try to dismiss such things as that. 
By the Chairman: 

Q. I understood you to deny, in response to Mr. Pool, that you had 
sent any form of a letter to reply by. — A. Oh, yes, of course. 

Q. I will ask you if you did or did not get a letter from a young man 
lately in the revenue servi(;e, named Mr. 13ogle, inclosing you a copy of 
a form that he said had been prepared by an oflicer and sent to them, 
and it had been handed to him? — A. I cannot answer thatuntil I go to 
the office. I do not recollect that that was so. If it were true and 
brouglit to my attention I have forgotten it. 

Q. He testified he had got hold of the form, on the margin of which 
was " Write something like this," " Copy this," and that he had sent it 
to you to call your attention to it. — A. Nothing of that kind went from 
my office. 

Q. I ask you if you got from him such a letter? — A. I will see after I 
get to the office. That letter was seut out in absolute good faith to as- 



314 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

certain tbe tiutli. (A package of letters is handed to witness, who 
examines tlieni.) I see that my recollection was at fault in that. 

Q. I simply wish to call your attention to the letter sent to you by 
the young man Mr. Bogle? — A. I will see about that.* 

Q. In relation to the order that Collector Mott issued, forbidding his 
subordinates to send out any more warrants, I will ask you was that 
legal, and had he any authority to order his officers not to perform their 
duty "? — A. Well, I revoked the order. I thought it was not a proper 
order ro issue. 

Q. You may have done that as a matter of policy; I want to know if 
in your opinion it was not directly illegal ? — A. I thought that they 
ought to go on and loerform their duty whether the court considered 
them right or not. 

Q. You said you would order, if that w^as continued, the district 
attorney to transfer the cases into the circuit court ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where the witnesses were not properly protected ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Could he do that? — A. I think so. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. How long did those assessments for office expenses continue ? — A. 
I think only two or three months. 

Q. And there was only $300 altogether collected? — A. About that, I 
think. 

Q. And that amount of three hundred dollars was ascertained to be 
the sum collected upon an investigation through you by Mr. Brooks'? — 
A. Yes. sir. 

Q. Did not Dr. Mptt stop making the collections for office expenses 
after an allowance had been made to cover them and a year before it 
was brought to your attention? — A. Now, I am not able to state with 
absolute certainty in regard to that. It seems to me that I said to Dr. 
Mott, that this investigation showed that he ought to have some addi- 
tional allowance for office expenses; instead of relying upon his subor- 
dinates to contribute to make up those expenses, that he should esti- 
mate tliem for me, and I would allow them, and my recollection is, an 
additional allowance was made on his estimate. 

Q. Then the assessments stopped? — A. Oh, yes, sir; they stopped. 

Q. Was that not some twelve months before the investigation by Mr. 
Brooks ? — A. I say that I would not be able to state that. 

Q. The investigation showed that a very large number of officers did 
not pay at all, and also the letters you received in answer? — A. Just as I 
have stated on the examination-in-chief, that all the officers did not con- 
tribute, and there was no special pressure brought to bear upon them. 

Q. The answers of these officers will show ho w^ much they did pay? — 
A. These answers will show more definitely. 

Q. It is your recollection that very few of the officers paid at all? — 
A. There was $300 collected. 

Q. You were asked just now, as a matter of arithmetic, whether po- 
litical assessments upon a larger number would not amount to more 
than upon a smaller number ? — A. I replied that it would. 

Q. And that a larger number of officers was caused by your reducing 
the required capacity of the stills, and was also produced by a greater 
number of distilleries being put up ? — A. These officers were employed 

* Commissioner Raiim sulisaquenciy reported that he had caused diligent search to 
be made through the files of his office and found no record of any such letter from Mr. 
Bogle or any one else. He was therefore able to state that no such letter had been 
received by him. 



THE SIXTH DISTEICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 315 

to meet the refiuireinents of the service there in that district in order 
to sui)press! illicit distilling. 

Q, Did yon try to have the nnmber of stills increased in order that 
yon might have a corresponding increase of storekeei)ers npon which to 
make political assessments ' — A. ISot at all, the beuelits resulting- politi- 
cally from that were simply incidental. 

Q. By having a great nund^er of small distilleries and storekeej^ers 
appointed there to them, it necessarily increased largely the percentage 
in the expenses of collection '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did not that reduce the expenses that had been incurred in 
courts? — A. I would suppose so; I never investigated the matter par- 
ticularly. I know that that system of administration resulted in the 
suppression of illict distilling and restored law^ and order there. 

Q. That would necessarily reduce the court expenses in prosecutions ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. 1 observed in the question that court expenses were added to in- 
crease the percentage of costs. I want to know if these increased ex- 
penses did not break up illict distilling and lessen the prosecutions in 
court, and therefore lessen the court expenses! — A. Where the peoi)le 
observe the law the court expenses will be greatly reduced. 

Q. I understood you to say that it was by mistake that a kinsman 
was assigned to a distillery run by his relative ? — A. If a case of that 
kind occurred it was entirely a mistake. 1 have no reason to believe 
there was any fraudulent intent in procuring the assignment, because 
the division between the officers and distillers, if any such occurred, was 
a small thing after all. 

Q. In a district so large as this of Dr. Mott's, embracing a mountain- 
ous region of country and stills away out in isolated localities, would it 
not be very easy for such mistakes to occur ? — A. They might occur. 
It is a very curious system of things where a man has a great amount 
of business if he does not now and then make mistakes. 

Q. Of that kind ?— A. Of any kind. 

Q. To have a large extent of country and a district inaccessible in the 
localities where the stills are rnn.wouhl make the collector especially 
liable to such mistakes? — A. Of course, he made mistakes; but I 
uever had a susi)icion that Dr. Mott was mixed up in any frauds there, 
and I did not believe he would be a party to them ; I do not think he 
would intentionally make an assignment of that kind. 

Q. But one instance occurred in which you say double pay was drawn 
in the year 1872 or 1873, when it was drawn by a deputy collector who 
acted at the same time as ganger. At that time such things were al- 
lowed and were thought to be lawful by Comptroller Taylor? — A. I 
think not. I tried to make that as clear as I could in the examination- 
in-chief. I do not think I can explain it more fully. I remember dis- 
cussing that identical question with Comptroller Taj lor, and uj) to a 
certain time that was held to be lawful. 

Q. My purpose was merely to bring out that the only instance of that 
occurred in 1872 or 1873. — A. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. I suppose you mean the only instance produced be- 
fore the committee ! 

Mr. Pool. I presume the committee has got them all. 

The Chairman. The Commissioner would not swear it never occurred 
since. 

The Witness. I do not swear anything about it. 

Mr. Pool. I say that the only instance produced before this cominit- 
t2e occurred in 1872 or 1873. 



316 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

The Chairman. That is correct. 

Mr. Pool. IsTo other instance has been produced before the commit- 
tee. After this they changed the law in 1878 or 1879 ? — A. Yes, sir, 

Q. These Kestler vouchers run from the 30th of September, 1872, to 
the 30th of June, 1873 — 9 months. It is in evidence here that the al- 
lowance of the collector was for three deputies at a hundred dollars 
each, up to May 20, 1873, and after that time for four deputies at $125 
a month each. Mr. Kestler went upon duty on the 30th of September, 
1872, and remained on duty to the 21st of October, 1872 — two-thirds of 
a month. Mr. Clarke, Dr. Mott's clerk, issued vouchers in the name of 
Kestler for the quarter running from the 30th of September, 1872, to 
the 31st of December, 1872, and then for the next quarter ending March 
31- and then for the next quarter ending June 30, 1873, which, he says, 
was a mistake of his, supposing Mr. Kestler was continuing as deputy. 
It is iu evidence that Mr. Walker was appointed deputy in place of Kes- 
tler on the 20th of October, but no voucher was sent in in his name 
at all. 

The Chairman. You are mistaken ; Mr. Walker swore that he signed 
a voucher and it was not sent in ; if it was not sent in, it was Clarke's 
ftiult. 

Mr. Pool. I said no voucher was sent in for Mr. Walker at all dur- 
ing that year, and he served to the 20th of May, 1873. Mr. Mcintosh 
was appointed in Mr. Walker's place, and no voucher was sent in for 
him, but still in the name of Kestler, up to June 30, 1873. A voucher 
was sent in for Mr. Eamsay during that time, and for Mr. Drake during 
the whole three quarters, and for Mr. Kestler; the others were left out. 
In that shape it appears from the records there — that you had in your 
hand just now — it went from your office to the Fifth Auditor's, and then 
went from his office to the First Comptroller's; now when the First 
Comptroller received it in that shape — a voucher being sent in for a 
man not a deputy, as he knew the number of men that were acting 
as deputies at the time — would it not be his duty to investigate the 
matter and inform Dr. Mott? — A. I think it would. 

Q. Would it be Dr. Mott's duty to correspond directly with him in 
regard to any inquiry as to how that occurred? — A. Yes, sir; any kind 
of an officer having the examination of an account can correspond 
directly with the person claiming credit or payment. 

Q. Detecting the voucher sent in the name of a man who was not an 
officer, he would be apt to correspond with him? — A. Oh! yes. 

Q. It would have been Dr. Mott's duty to reply to the First Comp- 
troller? — A. Of course. ' 

Q. When the First Comptroller adjusted that account, would it not 
have been Dr. Mott's duty to conform to his adjustment by sending iu 
amended vouchers in the name of the proper parties? — A. I think it 
would. The collector could only take credit for the amount allowed him 
by the Secretary of the Treasury. 

Q. And disburse it to the men who were really the officers ? — A. And 
if there were any errors in the vouchers, why the First Comptroller 
would have to write to cause him to correct them. 

Q. It would require him to send in correct vouchers? — A. Yes; a 
voucher that would warrant him in closing the account. 

Q. IS'ow, these vouchers on wbich you said there was no mark of the 
Fifth Auditor's Office, showing that they passed through his office, or 
when they were filed, are the correct vouchers ; and the abstracts leave 
Mr. Kestler's name out and x)ut these other men in? — A. Yes; the 
amended abstract. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 317 

Q. And that lias no mark of tlie Fifth Auditor's, though it has been 
ill his otllce? — A. No, sir; nor tlie First Comptroller; nor the Commis- 
sioner of Internal Revenue, nor the Kegister; but it was taken out of 
the llegister's hie. 

Q. The First Comptroller does not put marks on any of them'? — A. It 
seems not, in this. 

Q. It did not appear that any of the vouchers were marked? — A. No^ 
sir. 

Q. At that time, does it appear that your office had any mark? — A. 
The division of accounts at that time had no stamp. 

Q. Is not that a full exiilanation of the absence of any mark on these 
amended vouchers ? — A. I should say, as those vouchers were found in 
their proper places in the Register's Office, and as they conform to the 
settlement of the account 1)y the First Comptroller, and bear date but 
a short time after his adjustment, it would seem there had been some 
correspondence in respect to them ; that they are regular. 

Q. You say, then, that there is no irregulari ty in the m after ? — A . I see 
no irregularity about that. The fact is, the First Comptroller would be 
working- at it until today, if they were not regular. He would not have 
allowed the thing to go; would not have sent this forward to be tiled 
with the Register of the Treasury unless he was satisfied with the ad- 
justment of the account. 

Q. Until the collector had conformed to his adjustment? — A. Until 
he had conformed. 

Q. And that adjustment is in conformance with the allowance that 
was made? — A. Yes, sir; he cannot make it otherwise. The Secretary, 
upon recommendation of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, decides 
the amount which shall be paid; the Comptroller has nothing to do with 
that. He simply settles the account, makes it conform with the allow- 
ance; and where the account fails to conform with the allowance, he 
holds it, and sends it out to the officer. 

Q. He keeps on until the collector does conform to his adjustment? — 
A. He does not forward it to be tiled with the Register of the Treasury 
until all is satisfactory. It may be proper for me to say that ten years 
ago the business of my office was not iu as good form in respect to the 
accountability of officers as it is to-day. 

Q. Mr. Clarke said in his evidence that he made this mistake himself 
without Dr. Mott's knowledge, and in Dr. Mott's absence, by sending' 
on these Kestler vouchers, supposing", or inadvertently perhaps sup- 
posing, that Mr. Kestler was still continued instead of being turned out 
and another man put in his place. — A. I can very well understand that 
Dr. Mott going into the office ignorant of his duty and not being taught 
by some agent stationed there for that purpose, and only picking up 
the duties from his own subordinates, might be ignorant as to the 
proper way of managing his office. I now try to avoid that by having 
a revenue agent thoroughly experienced in the business of the collect- 
or's office, to stay with the new collector a week, ten days, or two weeks, 
until he is thoroughly i^osted — putting a schoolmaster to teach him, so 
to speak. 

Q. It is in evidence that Mr. Clarke was sent from the fourth district 
on account of his previous experience by the supervisor of the internal 
revenue iu order to instruct Dr. Mott and keep the office straight. That 
was the proper thing for the supervisor to do, was it not? — A. The su- 
pervisors did anything that they thought necessary. Under the super- 
visors' system there were ten commissioners of internal revenue, each 
one trying to do his duty. 



318 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. The supervisor was in fact tlie commissioner f — A. He bad the 
power to suspend the collector if necessary. 

Q. So while acting in this position he exercised his power, and sent 
Mr. Clarke there to take charge of the affairs in the collector's office? — 
A. I suppose that was with Dr. Mott's consent. I suppose when Mott 
went in he did not know much about managing the office. 

Q. Was Dr. Mott blamable for following Clarke's directions in the 
first year ? — A. The law holds every man who occupies an ofhce up to 
his duty. 

Q. He might be responsible, bat would he be blamable for following 
his directions ? Would he be reprehensible merely for a mistake made by 
Clarke under these circamstances ? — A. Where a man in office makes a 
mistake unwittingly, and that does not involve any criminal intent, I 
do not think he should be censured seriously for it. 

Q. Could these vouchers that have no mark of the Fifth Auditor 
upon them, and to which your attentiou has been called, have got down 
into the Register's Office except from the First Comptroller'? — A. I think 
not. 

Q. They must have been to the First Comptroller to have gotten into 
the Register's Office 1 — A. Well, everything goes there in pretty regular 
order. The First Comptroller would not accept these vouchers from 
my office, because ray office would not be able to state the account and 
certify it. The Fifth Auditor would have to do that. If thej^ got into 
the First Comptroller's Office from my office, they would send them to 
the Fifth Auditor. The Register is simply a custodian, and I don't think 
would accept papers from me. 

Q. Do you think there is anything in these vouchers in the correction 
of the mistake that Clarke made in sending in vouchers in the name of 
Kestler indicating anything wrong? — A. There is nothing to indicate 
anything wrong about it. It is simply a mistake of Dr. Mott's under- 
taking to disburse more money than he was authorized to disburse un- 
der the allowance. He was brought up with a round turn by the First 
Comptroller, and then sent in the amended schedule, and in some 
cases amended vouchers. 

Q. You see no sigu of fraud or intention of fraud in the absence of 
the mark of the Fifth Auditor upon them ? — A. I see a mistake, but no 
fraud. 

Q. You say you see no evidence of fraud in the absence of that 
mark? — A. I think not. 

Q. Did the papers go directly from the First Comptroller's Office to 
the Register? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There is no intermediate step ? — A. ]S"o, sir. The First Comp- 
troller settles the account, and then sends it down to the Register to 
file it away. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Mr. Pool asked you if it was not the dutj'^ of the Comptroller, when 
he found that an account filed by Collector Mott was not correct, to 
correspond with him and have him correct it. That is so, is it I — A. I 
think so. 

Q. You know nothing of such a correspondence ? — A. Oh, no ; I know 
nothing of that correspondence, but I presume it is there. 

Q. Do you not know from the papers, and from what you have heard 
in the office, that on account of these very same accounts, charges were 
brought against Dr. Mott, and he was turned out of office in the fall of 
1874 ? — A. 1 never investigated the exact grounds upon which President 
Grant removed Dr. Mott. I do not know whether it was upon that or 
not. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 319 

Q. Did you never see Mr. Crane's report? — A. No, sir; I never ex- 
amined that. In fact, 1 know that since this investigation came up, 
there has l)ecn some talk about this i)ayment to Mr. liamsay and those 
errors tliere creei)iiig in. 1 understood that Dr. Mott unide tilings sat- 
iofactory t-o the Tresident and convinced him that there was no fraud 
nor intentional mistake about it, and the President restored him. 

Q. Did you not also understand that the Commissioner and Secretary 
of the Treasury, ])rotested against his being restored f— A. Yes, sir; I 
think that Comunssioner Douglass did. I do not know upon what 
grounds it was. I think the friends of Dr. Mott appealed directly to 
President (Irant about it. 

Q. 1 will ask you if it was not political influence simply that restored 
Dr. Mott to oflice ? — A. I cannot tell you about that. 

Q. Is not that your understanding ? — A. I do not think any of the 
Democrats went there to ask his retention. My understanding is, and 
that I gather from hearsay, that Judge Settle, Colonel Keogli, and some 
other prominent Republicans of North Carolina (I have heard that 
stated— Colonel Keogh told me) went to President Grant and insisted 
that injustice had been done Dr. Mott, and convinced the President that 
that was so, and he corrected it. 

Q. Did you not also understand tliat Simon Cameron, of Pennsyl- 
vania, interfered? — A. No, sir; I did not hear that. 

Q. I believe you told Mr. Pool that you did not consider what was 
done there, with reference to those vouchers, any irregularity, but sim- 
ply a correction of a mistake ?— A. Well, I stated this, that Dr. Mott 
evidently made a mistake in agreeing to pay more than was authorized 
by the allowance to be paid him; that if lie undertook to pay him more 
than that and his account was adjusted otherwise, it was an irregularity 
and had to be settled in that way. 

Q. Was it usual to make up pay accounts in the name of men who 
were not in office at all?— A. I did" not reply to that. While Mr. Pool 
laid his foundation covering that point, he did not make any inquiry in 
regard to it. I think that was entirely irregular. While a mistake 
might occur entirely without intentional fraud, it is entirely irregular 
to put in one voucher with one name, wdiere the service had been per- 
formed by another ; but then you will understand that this is not the 
first case of that kind that has occurred. 

Q. This case was not only where a voucher was put in for a man who 
was not an officer, but where vouchers were forgotten to be put in for 
men who were actually officers and doing the work? — A. I do not know 
what explanation has been made in regard to this matter. 

Q. I am asking you: it seems an extraordinary mistake, if Kestler's 
vouchers were put in, he not being in office? — A. That was wrong. 

Q. And there were three men who did tlie work and were in office, 
and they forgot to put in vouchers for them? — A. If Kestler, once be- 
ing an officer, was removed, and some one was appointed in his pla(;e, and 
the mistake was made of taking the voucher of Kestler for the services 
of his successor, that voucher would not pass muster in the Comptroller's 
Office; as a matter of course, the pay must go to the person performing 
the work; but it was a little singular that Kestler's successor gave no 
receipt. 

Q. Kestler swore he did not give a receipt and Clarke admitted that 
he had forged his name. — A. That is very singular. Of course that 
was wrong. 

Q. I asked him if that was not a forged voucher and he admitted it. 

Mr. Pool. I understood he had authority from Mr. Kestler to sign 
his name. 



■320 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

The Chairman. No, lie said many of the ofiflcers gave him authority, 
but he did not remember whether Mr. Kestler had or had not. 

The Witness. I will state that it is entirely irregular for verbal au- 
thority to be taken by a collector or one of his deputies from his sub- 
ordinates to sign their vouchers. 

Q. That itself was an irregularity. 

Mr. Pool. Mr. Clarke, I think, said he had authority from Mr. Kestler. 

The Witness. These matters, you understand, are entirely new to me, 
because I have uever had occasion to investigate them. They were set- 
tled years ago. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You said that it was regular and proper, if a mistake had been 
made, &c., in the vouchers, to amend that by substituting new ones if 
the Comptroller would require them. Now, I ask you, if these amended 
vouchers had been taken to the Comptroller's office by permission to 
correct a mistake, if the Comptroller would have not made some in- 
dorsement upon them, or done something to recognize that these were 
amended vouchers'? — A. I do not know what course he would pursue in 
regard to it. You have examined the original vouchers which passed 
through the Comptroller's office, and you find there are no marks or 
memoranda upon them, and 1 do not know that anj^ other rule would 
be adopted in regard to amended vouchers; they seem to have been put 
in their proper places, with the statement of the account, as made up 
by the Comptroller. I suppose that light would be shed upon the mat- 
ter by getting the correspondence that passed between the First Comj)- 
troller and Collector Mott. I apprehend there are some letters there 
that constitute a part of the record and which would give some expla- 
nation of the matter, that I would not be able to state under oath as a 
witness. I can cause an investigation to be made of it, if you choose, 
if you want to get right down to the bottom facts. 

Senator McDill. I would like to have the witness send the Comp- 
troller's correspondence about the matter. 

The Chairman. Very well. 

The Witness. All right; any letters that passed back and forth. 

Adjourned until Friday, July 14, 1882, at 10 o'clock. 

Commissioner Raum subsequently furnished copies of memorandum 
and correspondence in relation to this matter found on the files of the 
Fifth Auditor's office, to be appended to his testimony, as follows : 

Memorandum relative to the accounts of Kestler and others. 

The collector should, file amended Forms 63 covering the period in question, giving 
the names of the deputies who received the money and. performed the service, ac- 
companied by proper vouchers and an affidavit setting forth all the facts in the case. 

[Persoaal.] United States Internal Revenue, 

Collector's Office, District North Carolina, 

Statesville, Sept. 19th, 1874. 

Dear Sir : I send the papers which I think are in accordance with the instructions 
given on the slip of paper you handed me. 

I hope this will be satisfactory. The slip of paper containing instructions I inclose 
also, as it may be of service to you in refreshiug your memory of the case. 

If anything is wanting to perfect your idea of what is necessary, please drop me a 
line. 

Vei'v respectfully, yours, &c., 

(Signed.) ' J. J. MOTT. 

W. SoMERS, Esq., 

bih Auditor^ s Office. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 321 

United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, District North Carolina, 

, 187-. 

As chief clork aud deputy for Collector J. J. Mott, of the 6tli district of N. C, I 
made out the quarterly accounts in his office from Dec. 31, '72, to June 30, 1873. 

Knowing the amounts paid to deputies I kept accounts signed by them, so that I 
might not be delayed at the end of each quarter in sending in my (juarterly accounts. 

The district is large and the deputies scattered and at intervals jibsent from the 
offlce for weeks at a time. Kestler was appointed a deputy coU'r, aud I did not know 
forsevfral months but what he was still a deputy, as the collector had deputies acting 
secretly, as it worked better in discovering the illicit operators. 

Besides, it being before the moieties were done away with, there were different men 
connected with the office and operating SkU tipecial deputies in hunting up illicit distil- 
leries, &c. 

It was in this way, I suppose, that the mistake occnrred in sending up Kestler's 
voucher. 

The deputies at that time did not draw their salaries regularly anyway, as they gen- 
erally paid themselves out of the collections they made, and were settled with accord- 
ingly. 

When the assessors were going out the collector appointed several additional depu- 
ties on the 1st May, 1873, to help collect and give information to the public concerning 
the new special tax stamps; this will account for the number of names on the June 
abstract, only a portion of whom we received any allowance for. 

H. Y. Mott was one of the [)rincipal collecting deputies during this (juarter, and his 
name and voucher does not appear there as it should have done. This was simply an 
oversight. 

J. A. CLARKE, 
Late Chief Clerk <^ Dep'tij. 

Sworn aud subscribed to before me this the 2lst day of September, 1874. 

E. B. DRAKE, 

U. S. Com. 

United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, 6th District North Carolina, 

Statesrille, Sept. 17, 1874. 
Sir : I respectfully ask to place on tile in your office some amended papers, abstracts 
63 and vouchers 63|, for the purpose of correcting my account, in which I hnd a mis- 
take. The accompanying papers will explain the matter. 
Very respectfully, 



J. J. MOTT, 

Collector. 



Hon. .1. H. Ela, 

bth Auditor, Treasury Dept., IVashitigtoii, I). C. 



Washington, D. C, Friday, July 14, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. m. 
The following' witnesses were called on behalf of Dr. Mott. 

I). C Pearson sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 
f 'Question. Wliere do yon reside? — Answer. In Morgantou, N". C. 
^Q. What is your business ? — A. I am at present a general storekeeper 
in the sixth district of North Carolina. 

^Q,. You reside not far from that South Mountain country that has 
been talked about here? — A. Yes, sir; I live at the county seat of 
Burke; the South Mountains are tn that county. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with that country? — A. I think I am. 

Q. Will you state what the condition of the imblic sentiment was in 

that country, in regard to the internal revenue law, and the officers, 

and the collection of the revenue, some years ago ? — A. Yes, sir ; well sir, 

there was a very bitter opposition to the revenue laws and its officers 

S. Mis. 116 21 



322 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

tliere, directly after tlic war uj) to tlie year 187(5. There was not a li- 
censed distillery in the county for a consi<leral)le time; 1 do not know 
when the lirst one was started — ])robal>ly not before 1874. There was 
a great deal of blockading down in that section of the county. 

Q. Were there illicit distilleries there"? — A. Yes, sir; that is what I 
mean by blockading. 

Q. Any great nund)er of them? — A. A considerable number, I think. 

Q. You do not think there was any legal distilleries there at all? — 
A. There were none certainly prior to 1872. 

Q. All these people st-'emed deteiinined to run their illicit distilleries 
and resist any attempt to break them up ? — A. They did resist those 
efforts frecpiently there prior to 187(5. 

Q. AV as there bloodshed? — A. There was one oflicer wounded there 
at one time; 1 do not know that any one was exer killed. During the 
administration of Weaver, wlio was the first internal revenue collec- 
tor in that district, there was a, man by Ihe name of John Sherman, 
Avho oi)erated in that county as his chief deputy, who was fired upon 
frecpu'iitly. Afterwards, Rollins was the collector. W. TI. Deaver was 
in there freqnently, and fired U])on. 

Q. That was before the consolidation? — A. Yes, sir; I am speaking; 
of the time prior to 187G. 

Q. It was then the old seventh district"? — A. Deaver, in company 
with a United States officer, a lieutenant, who luid charge of the squad^ 
was fired upon. 1 do not know tliat any one was hurt. Since 1876, 
Mr. Gillespie, a deputy collector under Dr. Mott, was shot down in the 
York settlement and wounded in the arm. He was also accompanied 
by some United States troops at the time. 1 tliink he was. 

Q. Showing that they resisted not only the United States revenue 
officers, but also the United States troo])s'? — A. These troops Avere at 
that time em])loyed under the direction of the dei)artment to assist the? 
collector in tlie enforcement of the law. 

Q. There seemed to be a determination to resist the execution of the 
law in that section of the county ? — A. Thiit is ray opinion, and it is 
A^erified by those circumstances. 

Q. Has there been an im[)rovement in that respect"? — A, Very great^ 
since 1876 and 1877 there has been a A^ery marked improv^ement. There 
has been no force used in the way of troops. There was what was 
called a S[)ecial force that AA^as employed by the collector, under the di- 
rection of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Those men were 
what AA^^, called a special force; they^Avent about in squads over the 
country, under sonu^ designated deputy, Avho was called captain of the 
squad. When those men first started out they were fired upon at one 
time doAvn there. 

Q. This neighborhood is a mountain country, is it not? — A. Yes, sir^ 
very mountainous. 

Q. You say there has been aA^ery decided improA^ement since 1875? — 
A. Yes, sir; the improvement has continued; it has been becoming" 
greater year by yeai-. These men Avere allowed to start small distiller- 
ies ; many of them Avho had been engaged heretofore in blockading, and 
Avere indicted in the courts, were induced to go into the manufacture 
of Avhisky legally, aiul there Avas a nunrber of distilleries started in Burke 
after 1879 and 1880 — ])robably some in 1878. 

Q. Is it safe, now, for reA'^enue officers to go through that country"? — 
A. Yes, sir; I hear of no disturbance now at all. 

Q. It was said that Avas a Republican community; that most of the 
people in there were Republicans ? — A. They did, after the war, np to 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 626 

i870, voto tli(! Ii(']»iil)lictin ti(;k«'t. Diiiiri^' tlic cni\\])n\}s;u of 1870 many 
oftlu'in at tliut irr)?iic«liat(; box — Lowcj- I'\)ik I'rfjciiict — tlio.y voted a 
larger JJ<'iiio(;rutic vot(; that yejir at that •)ox than tlicy \v<;r(i evor known 
to do ])i'l'()nt. 

Q. There, had always been a eonsiderable, -Denioeratie vote there, had 
there not? — A. About one-fiftli of it was Democratic. 

Q. Do you know wh<'ther some DeinocratH w(;re appointed by Dr. 
Mott as his oIVm-ams in 1870? — A. f do know th(;re was. 

Q. In that region of the State? — A. In that section of tlie State; and 
I know tliat tliei<' was some complaint l)y Iteputilicans of i>r. Mott lor 
iloin^ so, lie ^^ave as a r<'as(jn for doinj^ it that th(; ser\'ic(^ required it; 
that tin; lie|)ul)Hcan party has been lieid (mtiiciy responsii)Ie for all the 
odium in the cxecutioji of tlie int<-iiial icvenue hiws, and he prr)|)osed 
that some of this odium sliould f;ill upon the D<'moerats. And many 
of these nx-n, after entcrinj;- the service and coming- in contact witli tine 
revenue and its iiuthority, and so on, lia\'e afterwards acted witli tiie 
lie])ul)licans — luiiny of tliose aj(point<;es. 

Q. You said about one-(ifl:h of the; jieople of tin; South .Mountain coun 
try were Demociats; were not tin; Demo<-iats extremely l)itter and x'-in- 
dictive in that particular section ? — A. There wasa^reat dealof ca[)ital 
made out of tiie revenue laws in that locality. It was known as a Ke- 
])ublican measure, and the Kepnblicans w(!re held resj)onsibIefor it; the 
prejudices of those jx^oph'! were app<;aled to, and 1 ha\'e no doul)t many 
men who voted the ite|)ubliciin ti/'kr-t prior to that tim<; were induce<l 
to vote the Detuocratic ticket, thinkin;^- they would be reli<;ved of the; law 
and its operations l)y the Democraticadmiiiistiationcon)in<^into [lower — 
when the Democratic ]»iiity yot control of things. 

Q. I was sjx'rikinj;' of tin; Democrats in that ])articulai- ]o(;ality of the 
South MountJiins, and asked if tln-y wen; not extr(!m<'ly bittei- and vin- 
dictive in tiieii- politie;d views? — A. I do not know that there was any 
more of that thei(; than in other lo<;alities; the intluences that were 
brought to bear were brought to bear upon the line I have stated; know- 
ing the weakness of those people, it was used in that section of the 
country when not use<l (dsewhere. 

Q. Did the ai)]>ointment of some i^emocrats to office under the col- 
lector seem to change the public sentiment there? — A. Theiiublic sen- 
timent became (;lianged there, because the Democrats, getting control 
of Congress, made no change in the revenue laws, and tliose jieople 
became convinced that it woidd be the same, h;t them be in power or 
out of i)ower; that those a])])<;als that had been made to them on the 
j)art (^f the Democracy, to enable the Democracy to get into i)ower, ])roved 
not to be true. 

Q. Was it your opinion, from your observation of that locality, that 
the Democrats excited those jx'ople to violations of the revenue laws? — 
A. Those ])eoj)h; had been in the haltit of making whisky all their 
lives ; from after the war they thought they could do as heretofore. 
They knew nothing of the law, and the habits they had acquired for 
years before th(;y kept up. I uidiesitatingly say this, that politicians 
took advantage of those people down there, of their desire to violate the 
law, anyhow, to operate and make whisky. I do not mean to say that 
any individual, in open declaration, told them they had the right to 
violate the laws, or that they ought to do it. 

Q. You think the aj)j)ointment of Democrats in that locality to office 
hel})ed to chtinge ])idjlic sentimcjit and make it better! — A. J do. 

Q. You think it was a wise policy? — A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. Are there not illicit distilleries in that locality now that you know 



324 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL REVENUE IN 

of ? — A. ]^ot that I know of; coinijaratively speaking-, there are none at 
all There might be iusolated ones here and there, but so far as it was 
the case, and is now, you can say ithas entirely stopped — in a comparison 
of that kind. 

Q. Is there less denunciation of the law? — A. I think there is-. 

Q. A witness on the stand spoke of the fact that a Mr. W. J. Patter- 
son and Mr. Gudger were storekeepers at some distillery near Morgan- 
ton, I think, and that they were relatives — one of the witnesses intimated 
— relatives of the distillers. 1 wish you to state how that matter was. 
— A. There are three distilleries near there. They were bonded as the 
distillery of Huffman, at which distillery W. J. Patterson is a store- 
keeper ; another one is the bonded distillery of John Brittain, at which 
Mr. Gudger is the storekeeper ; John Garrison has a bonded distillery 
at which T. IsT. Halyburton is a storekeeper. I kuow the parties ; so far 
as I know there is no relationship existing on the part of the store- 
kee])ers to either of these distillers. 

Q. I understood from the witness yesterday that he was making- out 
that Mr. Patterson and Mr. Gudger were related to the distillers. — A. 
If that is so, it is not to my knowledge ; I do not think they are-; if there 
is any relationship it is quite distant. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman: 

Q. You said Mr. Deaver was fired upou, and the United States officers 
with him"? — A. That was reported there; I don't speak of my own per- 
sonal knowledge of these things, for I was not present. That was the 
report that came to town. 

Q. That they were fired upon"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. J3o you not know the contrary — that they fired on a man in Mc- 
Dowell County, and were indicted for it"? — A. I know that was done in 
McDow^ell County; that Deaver and a man had a difficulty up there; 
Deaver shot and killed a man, but I don't know that it occurred at that 
time. 

Q. And that a warrant was issued for him by Judge Clark"? — A. Yes, 
sir; I remember that. 

Q. When were you appointed in the revenue service and what office 
did you first hold'? — A. The first office in the revenue service was that 
which I now hold — as a general storekeepi r. I think it was in 1879 — 
I am not sure — that I was appointed. 

Q. By whom were you appointed? — A. By the Secretary of the Treas- 
ury, Mr. Sherman. 

Q. Who recommended you and procured your appointment? — A. It 
was through the collector's office — Dr. Mott. 

Q. What is your pay? — A. I get four dollars a day. 

Q. For every day? — A. Every day except Sunday. My pay is regu- 
lated in this way: I have a division of so many counties in which there 
are so many distilleries. If a distillery is under suspension it is in my 
charge, and if there is no distillery under suspension, I get no pay. 

Q. But there is always one or more under suspension in a district as 
large as that? — A. Yes, sir; I have six counties. 

Q. What are your counties? — A. Burke, McDoAvell, Mitchell, Yancey, 
Watauga, and Caldwell. 

Q. Did you have auyihing to do with getting up a delegation to the 
Chicago convention in 1880? — A. I w^as a delegate to that convention.. 
I don't know that I had anything- to do wath getting it up; I was a 
member of the 8th Congressional district committee. I attended the 
meeting of that committee. The committee only did in our district, 



THE SIXTH DISTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 325 

what was done all over the State prior to the Presidential election; they 
appointed delegates. I was one of those delegates. 

Q. Did yon not, as storekeei)er, while traveling" around on jour duties, 
assist in getting up a delegation favorable to a certain gentleman for 
the Presi(h'ncy ? — A. Not as storekeeper, I did ru>t. 
• Q. While yon were in the exercise of your duties traveling around, 
is what I mean. — A. No, sir; I had altogether a division. I was in 
another i)art of the district, outside of my Congressional district alto- 
gether. 1 then had the counties of Cabarrus, Gaston, and that section 
(lovvn there, and others, and was not on dnty in my Congressional dis- 
trict. I do not mean to say that I was not active in expressing my own 
Aaews as to wiiom I thought ought to be a candidate for President. 

Q. The question 1 want to ask you is, if you had not an agreement 
with Dr. Mott to help him in getting up a delegation to the Chicago con- 
vention, favorable to Mr. Sherman as a candidate for the Presidency ? — 
A. No such agreement. I thought he was for Sherman, and I expressed 
my own views for Sherman, but I had my doubts somewhat about Mott. 
. I thought sometimes he was for Grant, but there was no agreement 
between us. 

Q. You were in the convention? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who bore your expenses there! — A. Myself, and no one else — not 
a dollar. 

Q. Were not your expenses paid out of the fund that was levied upon 
the reveiiue officers'? — A. No, sir; not one cent of it. 

Q. Who were the other delegates from North Carolina to that conven- 
tion; can you recollect! — A. Wallace Rollins was the other delegate 

from my district. J. J. Mott, T. N. Cooper, from their districts, 

Canaday, Jim Harris, and Barringer were delegates from the 

State at large, 1 think. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Was that in the 6th district ? — A. Part of it was in the Oth collec- 
tion district, and part of it was in the Congressioiml district from which 
Myers was from. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I ask you if Stewart Ellison and Jim Harris were delegates also! — 
A. Th(\y were. 

Q. Do yon know who paid their expenses ! — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you not know it was i)aid out of the fund collected in the 0th 
district ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. You never heard it said it was ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. You never heard Mr. Cooi)er or Dr. Mott say so! — A. Never. 

Senator McDill : I don't think this is within the scope of our in- 
quiry — what was done with the money thaf was collected for political 
purposes; that would hardly determine anything as to the administra- 
tion of the revenue. 

The Chairman: We will pass that for the present, and discuss if after 
a while. 

Q. Have you ever been indicted for illicit distilling! — A. Never. 

Q. Nor for selling or removing spirituous liquors without a license! — 
A. Never. 

Q. At no time ! — A. Never, to my knowledge. 

Q. Have you never been threatened with an indictment ? —A. I do 
not know what people threatend. 

Q. I mean by the officers that were in that district at the time ! — A, 



326 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

If SO it never came to my knowledge. People may have talked about 
it but I don't know anything about it. 

Q. 1 mean talked officially *? — A. It never assumed such a shape a^ 
would justify me in taking any notice of it. 

Q. You have been interested as a partner with Peter M. Mull, of Ca- 
tawba County? — A. In what way ? 

Q. In an illicit whisky distillery? — A. No, sir; I never was. I was 
a merchant in Morganton at one time, and I sold those people down there 
corn. 

Q. Whom did you sell corn to? — A. I sold corn to Mull, and bought 
corn for Mull frequentlj^ ; but as to saying I was interested in what Mull 
did with the corn, I will say that I had no interest in it at all. 

Q. Did you not know that Mull was running without a license? — A. 
I did not know it. 

Q. You did know that he was running a distillery ? — A. I did not 
know that. I believed he was. 

Q. You did not know it ? — A. Never, to my own knowledge. I never 
was in a blockade distillery in my life. 

Q. You were told that he was running one? — A. I do not remember. 
I do not know that I was told. 

Q. Did you not get a quantity of whisky manufactured at his distil- 
lery ? — A. I do not know that I ever did. Mull brought me a small quan- 
tity of whisky at one time, but I never got any considerable quantity 
of whisky from him. 

Q. What did you do with that whisky you got from him? — A. I do 
not know what I did with it. I might have given it out to some parties ; 
I never sold it. 

Q. You never got any from him that you sold? — A. Oh no ; he sent, 
or might have brought me a gallon or so up to the store. 
« Q. Was hot Mull's distillery afterwards seized bj^ the oflicers ? — A. I do 
not know what year this was in. This was either the summer of 1869 
or 1870, or about that time. Tliere were frequently distilleries seized 
down there. I did not know that Peter Mull's distillery was ever seized. 
Jake Mull was the raost noted blockader of that country. 

Q. He was a brother of Peter's ? — ^A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say you did not have any pecuniary interest whatsoever in 
that distillery of Mull's ? — A. I do emphatically ; no ! 

Q. And you know you have not received a quantity of whisky from 
Mull and sold it ? — A. I do ; I never sold any whisky from Mull in my 
life. 

Q. Have you at any time been interested in an illicit distillery under 
the supervision of Peter Hudson ? — A. Never, sir. 

Q. Did he run an illicit distillery? — A. If he did, I do not know it. 

Q. Did you not understand, or hear, that it was an illicit distillery 
that he ran ? — A. I do not know that he ever ran any. I barely know 
the man from reputation. I know there is such a name as that down 
there. 

Q. Did you receive any whisky from him for sale ? — A. Never. 

Q. You never sold any for him, or on account of that distillery? — A. 
I never sold any whisky in my life for anybody or to anybody. I may 
have written for other parties about dealing in it. 

Q. Did you ever sell him any corn ? — A. I do not know that I did. I 
might have done so. 

Q. Did you know Jonas Ramsay? — A. Yes, sir; I know him. 

Q. Did he run a distillery? — A. He was indicted for illicit distilling. 

Q. For running an illicit distillery ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think he was. 



THE SIXTH DISTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 327 

Q. Did you have an interest in his distillery? — A. No, sir; I never 
had any interest in any of those distilleries. 1 sold those people corn, 
as I told you. 

Q. When you say " those people" you mean the distillers ? — A. Yes, 
sir; the mountain people; they might have been distillers or not; they 
bought considerable corn. 

Q. How did you get your pay ? — A. They paid me the money. 

Q. You did not at that time, from any of those mentioned, receive 
your pay in whisky ? — A. No, sir ; Mull brought me a gallon or two of 
whisky at one time, but I had no interest in auy of these distilleries at 
all, nor in any other distilleries. 

Q. Did you kuow Harvey York and Waighstel York? — A. I did. 

Q. Were they not illicit distillers by reputation ? — A. Yes ; by rep- 
utation. 

Q. Do you know that fact of your own knowledge ? — A. I do not 
know it of ray own knowledge; I never saw them distilling. That is 
the only way I could kuow it of my own knowledge. I believe they 
•were. 

Q. Did you have any interest in their distilleries'? — A. None. 

Q. Pecuniary or otherwise ? — A. None ; I sold them corn and many 
others. 

Q. Did you know they were making it into whisky"? — A. No ; I did 
not. 

Q. You said so? — A. I presumed they were going to make it into 
whisky. 

Q. Did they not tell j^ou they were making whisky ? — A. I do not 
know that they ever did; that was my understanding about it — that 
they were using the corn for that purpose. 

Q. Did you receive any M'hisky or other returns from that distillery 
in any shape or form? — A. From the Yorks' distillery? 

Q. Yes ? — A. Nothing but money was ever paid me for anything I 
ever sold them. 

Q. You sold them nothing but corn"? — A. I may have sold them other 
goods. 

Q. I mean that is all you did towards their business, if they were in 
that business ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you interested at any time with R. A. Cobb in running a 
licensed government distillerj"? — A. I may have been interested in- 
directly in that distillery, in this way; I furnished Cobb with corn, and 
sold it to him on credit. That is the only way I possibly could have 
been. I had no direct interest in it. The proceeds of the same from the 
men to whom he sold it might have beeu transmitted to me and placed 
to his credit; in that way that is the only way possible I could have 
been interested in it. 

Q. Did you «^ver receive from E. A. Cobb's distillery any compensa- 
tion whatsoever other than the price of your corn? — A. I do not know 
that I did. 

Q. You would know it if it had been so? — A. Yes, sir; I say I had 
no interest in the profits of his concern at all. * 

Q. You just sold him his corn on credit, and received the claims of 
men who bought whisky from him in payment of your corn? — A. The 
only way I could have been considered interested was that the whisky 
made shDold be liable for the corn from which it was manufactured. 

Q. You held a sort of lien upon the whisky for the payment of your 
corn? — A. Yes, sir; but not only for the corn that I let Cobb have, but 
for the money. . 



328 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



1 



Q. What were you to get for the use of your money ? — A. Nothing- more 
than the interest of it; the money was' generally returned in a short 
time; It was a matter of accommodation. 

Q. It was Cobb's distillery, was it?— A. Cobb ran the distillery there 
In his own name; yes, sir. 

Q. Was he not storekeejier to the distillery at the same time?— A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Who was? — A. Will McDowell was storekeeper there at one time j 
and I do not know who else; I remember he was. 

Q. How long was that distillery kept up by Cobb?— A. I cannot tell 
you; some months. 

Q. Who took Cobb's place when he retired, or did he retire? — A. I 
think that no one took his place. There was a man by the name of 
Hudson or Hollow; they ran a distillery there or near the same, place^ 
and had a Mr. Hcnnessee as storekeeper afterwards.. 

Q. What distillery was Cobb storekeeper at?— A. Cobb was a store- 
keeper years ago; I do not know that he was ever a storekeeper after 
the consolidation of the district. The time Cobb was storekeeper was 
when Eollins was collector of the district. I do not know that he ever 
was storekeeper under Mott. I do not now remember; he might have 
been; I do not mean to be positive on that point. He was storekeeper 
to Walker. 

Q. Were you interested in the same way, or in any other way, in any 
licensed distillery?— A. I furnished old man Wesley Walker corn in 
the same way. 

Q. Who was his storekeeper? — A. Cobb was his storekeeper. He 
had several. Cobb was storekeeper at the time I furnished this corn 
to him. 

Q. Who paid you for corn you furnished to Walker? — A. Walker 
did himself, and he may have given me orders on different men. 

Q. Did he give you orders on Cobb?— A. I do not remember. Cobb 
may have paid me some money for him; but I do not remember about 
that. 

Q. Have you no reason whatever to suppose that Cobb was inter- 
ested in Walker's distillery while he was storekeeper? 

Mr. Pool. There is a question, if you will allow me, about inquiries 
as to that time. The seventh district was not then consolidated with 
the sixth; it w^as before the consolidation, and it seems to me it is a 
question whether this investigation can go into the seventh district 
before it w-as put into the sixth, under the resolution on which this 
committee was appointed. 

The Witness. I wish to state this, that all the transactions, remote 
or direct, that I have had with these people were prior to 1876. 

Mr. Pool. Was that when the consolidation took place? 

The Witness. That was prior to the consolidation. 

The Chairman. When was the consolidation? 

The WjTNESS. It w^as in the year 1876, I think. 

Senator McDill. I suppose, strictly, our investigation is confined to 
the present sixth. 

The Chairman. The present sixth embraces both districts. 

Mr. Pool. Of course you can go into the sixth district before consol- 
idation ; but whether you can go into the seventh before consolidation 
is a question. 

Senator McDill. Is this particular locality part of the sixth now? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Senator McDill. It^seems to me if it is now in the sixth, the resolu- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA 62\) 

tiou is broad enough to cover it. There is uo limitation to time. This 
district now consists of 34 counties, and while it opens up a very broad 
field for investigation, it seems to me it is contemplated in the language 
of the resolution. 

The Chairman. I think so, nr.doubtedly. 

(To the witness.) You are aware of your rights in this matter, Mr. 
Pearson, and 1 am going to ask you some questions which you can de- 
cline to answer if you see proper. 

Q. Did you at any time aid any of these <listillers whom you have 
mention(?d in procuring exhausted stamped l)arrels to be refilled with 
illicit whisky '? — A. Never. 

Q. Did you never i)urchase auy exhausted barrels for any of these 
distillers f — A. Never. 

Q. Did you never tell them where they could get them? — A. Never; 
I remember ordering for old man Walker some barrels from Salisbury 
from a merchant tliere; they were shipped up there on the train just as 
any other distiller would order barrels. Nothing was said about stamps 
or anything of that sort. I recollect on another occasion buying some 
barrels for a man named Hoftiuan, and they laid there in Morgantowu 
for mouths before he took them. They may have been used, but the 
stam])S were certainly canceled. 

Q. Were you sure of that? Did you see them all? — A. I did not see 
them all; I just presume so. There was no disposition to defraud, or 
there would have been some secrecy about it. 

Q. Where did they lie? — A. In the warehouse in the rear of Major 
Wilson's store; the property belonged to him, but it was a merchant's^ 
store ; the barrels belonged to L. P. Henderson, who had been a dis- 
tiller. 

Q. Were you not accused of that and threatened with indictment on 
account of these barrels ? — A. Those particular barrels ? 

Q. Some barrels like those ? — A. I do not know that I was. 

Q. For the use of uncanceled stamped barrels ? — A. If so, it was 
never carried into execution. There was a rumor came to me about it,, 
and 1 sat down and wrote a letter to Major Wagoner, who was the rev- 
enue agent, demanding an investigation of any such matters brought 
against me. I wrote to him at Greensboro. I desire to state now, in 
explanation of this matter which the chairman has asked me about, I 
was a public oflHcer in that county of Burke — a clerk of court — which 
was a large Democratic county. These people were my friends I 
might have acted in a way that might have misled and deceived 
I)eoi)le. I kept on the good side of everybody, and was always elected 
clerk. When I ran for office in that county, though I was a Kepubli- 
can, I was politic and jnudent, and all that sort of thing, and that may 
not have been understood by the revenue officers; but I was never in- 
dicted; and if they looked into the matter, as I judge they did, the re- 
sult showed that they could not sustain auy indictment. 

Q. You made friends, then, of the distillers ? — A. With everybody. 

Q. With everybody, including the distillers ? — A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. Tliose bad fellows down there in the South Mountains that were 
violating the law, y<ni made friends with them? — A. Yes, sir; the first 
time 1 ran for clerk, out of a hundred and three votes cast at that box 
I got a hundred of them. The next time it turned out they were not so 
friendly ; 1 only carried that box by eight votes. 

Q. When you were appointed as an officer in the internal revenue, 
did not Dr. Mott tell you there had been those kind of charges made 
against you ? — A. I do not think he did. Dr. Mott may have heard of 



.'330 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

those things himself. I never sought any position iu the revenue serv- 
ice prior to the time I did. I was engaged there as a clerk, and it did 
not become me to run on the revenue side. It was not to my interest 
to do it. I told him this when L did apply for a i^osition ; he had con- 
fidence in my capacity, integrity, and eveiything else of that sort, and 
said I would have to give up the clerkship to accept this position. 

Q. Was Mr. Cobb indicted in the Federal courts"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When 1 — A. I cannot tell you the date ; it was when Mr. Chap- 
man was in that district as revenue agent that he was indicted. I think 
it was between 187G and 1878. 

Q. What was he indicted for? — A. For some kind of frauds, I think. 
Among other things that were charged against him was refilling bar- 
rels, or assisting in some way about that. 

Q. When he was indicted he was storekeeper, was he not? — A. I do 
not think he was acting as storekeeper at the time. 

Q. What capacity was he acting in ? — A. I do not think he was act- 
ing in any capacity. I think he was off duty. It may have been while 
he was distilling. 

Q. You think he was not indicted for conduct while on duty as store- 
keeper ? — A. I do not think he was — that is not my recollection of it. 

Q. What became of the indictment ? — A. 1 do not know. Mr. Chap- 
man was investigating into the matter ; he was the revenue agent ; he 
had the disposition of it. 

Q. Did not Mr. Cobb plead guilty in the court ? — A. He may have 
done so or may not. I cannot tell you of my own knowledge. I think 
there was some compromise in the matter of that sort. 

Q. Did not Mr. Cobb consult you about his troubles at the time he 
was indicted?— A. Yes, sir; he talked to me a good deal about it. 

Q. Did he not admit that he had defrauded the government? — A. I 
cannot tell you his conversation with me. It was more like that with 
an attorney; and I would not feel at liberty to state what he did say. 

Q. You are not a practicing lawyer ? — A. ]S^ot a practicing attorney/ 
but I had a good deal to do for these people in that caiDacity in the Fed- 
eral courts. 

Q. I suppose you can hardly plead the privileges of an attorney in 
that case ? — A. I would not like to say what he had said to me. ]S"or 
do I want to be understood that I decline to answer on the ground that 
it would criminate myself. 

Q. That would criminate, not you, but another man — what he had said 
to you; the case is already disposed of? — A. I do not remember what 
disposition was made of the indictment. If I saw what he said ; I can- 
not tell you what he said unless I saw the record. 

Q. Your conversation is not on the record if it was confidential ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. If he plead guilty there was some compromise in the matter. I 
will put the question to you in this way: you learned from one source 
or another, which satisfied you that Cobb was guilty ? — A. I can only 
give you my opinion about that. 

Q. Your opinion is what we want. — A. I do not like to give an 
opinion about a man whom I have some regard for. It would only be 
a matter of opinion. 

The Chairman (to the committee). Do you think the witness is at 
liberty to decline answering that question ? 

Senator McDill. I do not think there is any legal claim that can 
exempt him. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 331 

By tlie Chairman: 

Q. Did you have reason to believe that lie was s^^ilty ?— A. If being 
iiulicted, and a number of witnesses being summoned, and bis anxiety 
about the matter would be reason for it, 1 should have reason for be- 
lieving he was guilty. 

Q. Did you have any other reason exeept his anxiety, and his being 
indicted, to believe so? — A. I presume Cobb was guilty of violation of 
the law. 

Q. Now, did you not afterwards recommend him to Dr. Mott for ap- 
pointment as special deputy collector f — A. I did. 

Q. With full knowledge of his guilt, you did that?— A. Yes, sir. I 
want to ex])lain that matter. Mr. Chapman, the revenue agent, he 
Avas with Cobb in this whole transaction. Cobb had rendered valuable 
assistance in executing the law, and his conduct after that thing was 
such as to show me — -justify me in that recommendation — that he was 
sincerely sorry for his past conduct, and desirous to retrieve himself by 
executing the law, and l)ecoming a law-abiding good citizen. And with 
that view I did it, and I was not wrong in what I did. He rendered 
very valuable assistance; so much so, that he received the approbation 
of the special agents in that district. 

Q. But he has since been indicted for making out false vouchers. — 
A. I learned there was a warrant or something of that sort sworn out 
against him by some i)arties in Asheville for making out accounts that 
were alleged to be false; I do not know that of my own knowledge; 
that matter is still underling investigation. I have only got his 
word for it; he says he can vindicate himself entirely. 

Q. Did you have any conversation or correspondence with Dr. Mott 
about these charges against Cobb when you urged his reappointment? — 
A. The past charges? 

Q. Yes, sir; the past charges. — A. I do not think I had any corre- 
spondence. What I said to Dr. Mott I said to him in person. We had 
a conversation about it. He did speak about them. I told him of Cobb's 
conduct and his assurance of what he intended to be in the future, and 
all that sort of thing. Immediately after hearing of this indictment at 
Asheville I informed the doctor of it. 

Q. Dr. Mott? — A Yes, sir, I did; and he was removed instantly. 
The doctor was very much aggravated and incensed at it. He said to 
m,e, " You see you have been disappointed," or something of that sort. 

Q. Did you not urge upon Dr. Mott some reason of a political nature 
for reappointing Cobb ? — A. I nnxy have said that Cobb was a good 
Republican, which he is. 

Q. And an active man in the party? — A. I might have said that; 
yes, sir. Do not doubt but what I did. 

Q. What i)osition was he given — deputy collector was it not? — A. 
Special deputy collector. 

Q. How maiiy men were jdaced in his charge? — A. The last appoint- 
ment he was under the charge of one man himself. Alexander LiUing- 
tou has the charge of the western end of the district, and Cobb was 
with him as assistant. 

Q. What salary did he draw? — A. I do not know of my own knowl- 
edge. I think the pay of that position was about $125 per month; that 
is what used to be the case with sjiecial force deputies. I do not know 
what his salary was. I cannot tell. 

Q. How many men were under him during those raids? — A. Under 
the last appointment I procured for Cobb there was no one under him. 



662 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

He was with Lilliugtou. Lillington and lie alone constituted tlie police 
force of that end of the district. 

Q. Was it not peculiar for a subordiqate and not the commander to 
receive the praises of the department? — A. I Avas speaking of the special 
force before it was disbauded. The indictment against Cobb occurred 
in 1878, when Mr. Cliapman was there. I thuik the thing was arranged. 
Mr. Chapman did not object to Mr. Cobb's being appointed in the serv- 
ice because he could render valuable assistance in suppressing this 
blockading. He was put on the special force. The special force was 
disbanded and Cobb was out of employment before he was put in with 
Lillington, and it was during the time he was with Lillington that he 
was indicted for this irregularity at Asheville. 

Q. What was the duty of this squad? — A. Police duty. 

Q. Patrolling the district? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Arresting violators of the law, illicit whisky distillers, and so on ! — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was Cobb ever used at any time, and his subordinates, to aid in 
getting up delegations for the Chicago convention ? — A. If he was I 
do not know it. 

Q. Did he not do some of that work under your instructions 1 — A. Mr. 
Cobb and I conferred together as anybody would in the political cam- 
paign. 

Q. What was the substance of your conference ? — A. I cannot tell 
you. We laid plans to get away with the Bourbon crowd, if we could. 

Q. I am tjpeaking with reference to the Chicago convention ? — A. We 
laid plans to get away with those of our own crowd that were opposed 
to us. I cannot tell you what did occur. 

Q. Did Cobb and Ms squad make any arrests in Burke County for 
violation of the revenue laws ? — A. I cannot tell you. I think they did. 
Arrests were being made there more or less all the time. Arrests were 
being made in this way : A warrant was sworn out and placed in the 
hands of the marshal, and the marshal brought the nmn before the 
commissioner. 

Q. Can you name any cases of arrests during that time ? — A. I can- 
not. My duties at that time were in another portion of the district. 

Q. You were chiefly interested, then, in getting away with the Bour- 
bon crowd? — A. Yes, sir; we went for defeating Jarvis and Hancock, 

Q. Can you give me an instance of any arrests made in the district 
during that campaign by Cobb and his squad? — A. I could not with- 
out studying about the matter. I did not pay any attention to other 
portions of the district. I had nothing to do with their duties what- 
ever, and since I have been in the revenue service I have taken i^artic- 
ular pains to attend to my own business and leave others alone ; tried 
to do my duties correctly and properly. 

Q. Who hauled the Kepublican officers around from one place to 
another and paid their expenses in that district? — A. 1 do not know, 
sir. I myself met Judge Buxton and Mr. Everett, and others up in 
McDowell Count3^, and I came with them from thereto Bridgewater, in 
Burke County, on the railroad. I had a carriage myself, and brought 
them to Morganton and entertained them that night in the hotel, and 
sent them from there to their ncjxt appointment on John's River. 

Q. Who did you send to take them over there ? — A. Cobb and New- 
ton Halyburton went along. Halybnrton was a storekeeper and Cobb 
was a special deputy. I know that Halyburton was not on duty or in 
the service at that time. 

Q. He had a commission ? — A. No, sir ; not at that time. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 333 

Q. I !isko«l yon irtlcij. scjiiiHl ;iii(l (V)l>b(li(l not «1() itlinost cxciliisivcly 
|)()liticiil worlc during' tluit siiiniiicr iuul fall ? — A. If so, 1 did not know 
it. None of the scniad were with these neiitleineii at thi.s appoiiitincut 
that I spoke of. 1 do uot think Cobb himself was at Bridgcwater. I 
am sure none of them were in McDowell County. 

Q. All the servi(;e they performed that fall was of a ])olitical char- 
acter, instead of for the revenue"^ — A. I think not; that is my opinion. 
I never had any such idea that they were ]>erforniin^ jiolitical work 
instea<l ot revenue work. These two occasions that I was with those 
gentlenu'n there was none of tlii^ squad i)resent. 

Q. Do you know wIuitluM' Cobb is not indicted now for makinji' out false 
vouchers ibr ser^•ic<^s i)uri)ortinji: to have been rendeicd durin*^ that 
.same canii)ai«>ii'? — A. I do not know aiiythinjr about it of my own 
knowledf^e. I will answer that question in this way. 1 uiulerstood 
that what he was indicted foi-, and bionjiht up there in Asluiville, was, 
when he was attending;' the last l^'ederal court, it was nothinj^ for what 
he had done in the canq)ai<;n at all with vouchers, but for something 
altoji,ether since. 

Q. Who is tiie district attorney for the district '? — A. ,Iames E. lioyd. 

i). Are you any connection of his in any way"? — A. None. He mar- 
ried a Holt, and so do I. But I do not think our wives are in any 
way related. 

Q. You and Mr. IJoyd are friends ? — A. I am not intimate with him. 
1 know him. 

(^,. Have you i)roinised to use your influence with Mr. IJoyd to j^et 
Cobb out of this second trouble ? — A. 1 cannot answer that (pu'stion in 
that sort of way. I will tell you what J did <lo: When in Ashexille at 
the Federal (M)urt 1 spoke to the (listri(;t attorney about the matter, 
but as to i)r()misin,i;- aiiythini;' of that sort it is not so. I was re(pieste<l 
to do so, and I spoke to him, l)ut the thinu- was not in his court and he 
could not take any (;ogni/ance of it. It had not reached his court at 
the ti nu' 1 was there. 

Q. You spoke to him about it in behalf of Mr. Cobb when it did get 
into his court? — A. No; I thought it was in his (;ourt. lie told nie it 
was not. I desired that Cobb should make the explanation to him 
about the nuitter as he had ex])laine(l it to me, because if Cobb's ex- 
])lanation was true, it was a. frivolous and mali(;ious indictment. 

Q. Do you know who got it u}) ? — A. 1 know what was told me. 

Q. That is what I nu»an, of course. — A. The Douglass faction there, 
if I n)ay be allowed to call tluMu that, all said to be unfriendly to the 
collector, and it was a lick at him over ('Ol)b's shouhUu's. It was a 
mere nuitter, he told me, of board. Cobb was l)oardingatone hotel, and 
he had so much board to i)ay per day, and he charge<l what the bal- 
ance of the hotels chaiged. That is the way he has ex])lained it to me; 
and these fellows thought that it would affect Dr. Mott in some way, 
and they got hold of one of his vouchers and got him into trouble. 

Q. That is the way you recollect it. — A. Yes, sir; so 1 was told. I have 
reason to believe that was the character of it. 

Q. J)oes Dr. Mott ever consult you about the api)ointment of store- 
keei)ers and gangers in your district? — A. In ray immediate locality 
he does, or rather I have consulted him mostly about it. I will say 
another thing, that he has said to me to be very careful and j)articulai', 
and that he would hohfuie stiictly res])onsible for mistakes ol' thatsort 
made, and wherever a mistake was nuide I havii written to liim at once 
about it, and the matter has been remedied by the party not getting 



334 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

work, and a storekeeper might as well be removed as to be without 
work. 

Q. A great many persons have been recommended by Dr. Mott at 
your suggestion ? — A. I could not tell you a great many ; probably eight 
or ten. 

Q. Can you give me the names of them ? — A. I have recommended 
T. N. Halyburton for one, B. S. Walton for another. 

Q. And who else? — A. Richard Williams and some others. 

Q. What places were they to get respectively? — A. To be appointed 
storekeepers — all these men that I have spoken to yon about. 

Q. Did yon have any conversation on the subject of suppressing- 
frauds in Burke County, with T. K. Davis, who was examined here the 
other day ? — A. Yes, sir ; frequently. 

Q. Did you express any anxiety to him ever about stopping viola- 
tions of the law in your county ? — A. I rendered assistance to him to do 
so, and Mr. Cobb has rendered very active assistance in person. I have 
consulted with him about the matter, and advised him what sort of 
course he ought to pursue. 

Q. Confidentially? — A. Yes, sir; this was prior to my connection 
with the internal-revenue service. 

Q. That is what I mean. — A. Yes, sir; I have had conversations with 
him frequently. 

Q. Did he advise and tell you iu these conversations what places he 
was going to visit, and where he expected to find violations of law, and 
so on ? — A. Yes, sir ; he has done so. 

Q. Did you at any time give notice to the parties that he was about 
to visit ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. In order to keep on good terms with them? — A. No, sir ; that was 
alleged to me at one time in the early part of 18()8, or along there. 

Q. You did not at any time send any notices or procure them to be 
sent to these people? — A. I have used my iniiuence iu that division in 
a double sort of way. I wanted him to be light on these people if they 
got into trouble — I knew it was wrong, of course, the violation of these 
laws, and have never encouraged it. But if these men got into trouble 
I always tried to get them out by pursuing a begging sort of policy,, 
and always had Davis's assistance in these efforts to do it. 

Q. Do you deny emphatically you sent notices to those engaged in 
illicit distilling, or in any other violations of the law, or advised them 
that some one was coming, and to look out ? — A. As to my being any 
such messenger I deny it emphatically. 

Q. Have you agreed to recommend Cobb for reappointment if he 
should get out of this scrape ? — A. I don't know that I have. 

Q. Have you not spoken to Dr. Mott about it? — A. No, sir; I have 
not — not about reappointing Cobb. I spoke to Dr. Mott about an ap- 
pointment for Cobb there on the special force. I spoke to him about 
appointing him to another position prior to my knowledde of these indict- 
ments. When I found out about this indictment I wrote, as I told you^ 
to Dr. Mott about it. 

Q. Y^ou and Mr. Cobb are on very friendljr and confidential terms, are 
you not? — A. We are on friendly terms. 

Q. Personally and politically?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did Mr. Cobb consult you about his official conduct as an officer, 
and ask your advice, and so on ? — A. He has done so, yes, sir ; and has- 
in these conversations assured me of his great desire to do exactly 
right. 

Q. Has he at any time told you that he had orders to visit and de- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 335 

stroy certain distilleries, aud look out for certain violatioiis of the law*? 
— a'. He may luive considted me while he was on this si)ecial force about 
his plan of operatous, and so on. 

Q. What are the duties of your office as a geneial storekeeper? — A 
To take charge of the distilleries that are in my division under suspen- 
sion, and to visit these distilleries when occasion recjuires — once a month 
— aud when partiesdesire to tax-pay whisky and withdraw it, or when any 
inspection of the distillery is re<]uired, I make out monthly reports of 
the quantity of whisky in the warehouse and the quantity tax-i)aid dur- 
ing the month. 

Q. Is it not a part of your duty to report any irregularity on the part 
of the licensed distillers and storekeepers in the territory to which you 
are assigned f — A. I have nothing to do with a distillery unless it is 
under suspension; nothing at all. That belongs to the deputy collector 
wdien the distillery is in oi)eration; it is not under my charge. I 
would not hesitate, though, if I saw or knew of irregularity, to feel it my 
duty to report it. 

Q. Is it not a part of your sworn duty to report all irregularities that 
come to your knowledge? — A. Yes, sir; commonly so considered, but it 
is not made m}^ special duty to find out those things. 

Q. Do you know Kobert Powell? — A. I do, sir. 

Q. Has he been a storekeeper to a distillery? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What distillery? — A. The distillery w^as bonded in the name of J. 
Martin. 

Q. kSince 1880, was it? — A. The distillery was started since 1880, yes, 
sir: I think so. 

Q. You say it was bonded in the name of Jones Martin ; who was the 
real owner of that distillery? — A. I i>resume Martin. I do not know 
anj'thing- to the contrary. 

Q. Do you know that Powell was really the owner of the distillery 
of which he was storekeeper ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Did you not have reason for believing it? — A. I have none except 
there was a rumor of that sort, that Powell was interested in the dis- 
tillery. 

Q. What was the rumor based upon ? — A. I cannot tell you what it 
was based upon. 

Q. Whose land was the distillery on ? — A, It was on Dr. E. 0. Pear- 
sou's. 

Q. Did Martin have any means ? — A. I do not think he had very much, 
if he had any — little or none. 

Q. Did not Mr. Powell buy corn for the distillery? — A. I do not know 
that. 

(^. Did he not buy corn from you for the distillery ? — A. jSTo, sir ; he 
never did buy a bushel of corn from me in his life that I remember. 

Q. Did Martin in any form become responsible as a means of running 
the distillery ? — A. I do not know anything of that, only in this way — 
by rumors that came to my knowledge. I told Mr. Bailey, the deputy 
collector, that such was alleged to be the case, aud he had to see Mr. 
Powell and have such a thing stop[)ed, and I would recommend to the 
collector that Powell be removed from the distillery, and it was done 
in consequence of these reports. 

Q. How far does Powell live from you ? — A. He lives a short distance 
now. 

Q. He lives in the same town? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. On an adjoining lot? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And claimed to be the owner of the distillerv to which he was 



336 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

assigned as a storekeeper ? — A. He never was assigned but to this one. 
He is not on duty now. 

Q. What kin was Jones Martin to Mr. Powell? — A. I do not know 
that he was any. 

Q. What relative '? — A. 1 do not know tliat they were related in any 
way at all. 1 do not think he was to this Powell. Bill Powell and 
Jones Martin married sisters. 

Q. What kin was Bill Powell to the other Powell ?— A. A brother of 
Eobert's. i 

Q. Who actually did the work of operating that distillery ? — A. If 
never was in the distillery in my life. It was never under suspension, 
and I do not know. 

Q. How far was the distillery from town*? — A. About two miles,. or 
perhai)s not so far. 

Q. Did you never hear who was the person that was the operator of 
that distillery 1 — A. If so, I heard it was Martin. I do not know that 
I ever heard of anyone else except in these rumors about Powell being 
the owner of the distillery. 

Q. Do you know from whom the distillery and its furniture and fit- 
tings were bought"? — A. I think it turned out, after an investigation 
about the matter was made, that Bill Powell once operated the distil- 
lery, and Captain Bristol was security for Powell in some way, and the 
stills and fixtures were placed under mortgage there, and Robert Pow- 
ell or Martin had i)rocured them from Bristol. 

Q. Did Martin have the means to buy them? — A. I do not know. 
He may have had souie $60, $70, or $100. 

Q. Is it not more likely that Powell furnished him the means to buj^ 
it? — A. I cannot tell you about the likelihood. Powell is better able 
to do it. 

Q. Did you not have reason to know that Robert Powell purctiased 
the distiller}^ ? — A. I have no personal knowledge of it. In consequence 
of these rumors I took the steps I did, and it ended in Powell's being 
removed from the distillery. 

Q. Who took those steps'? — A. I took the first steps, with Mr. Bailey, 
and Mr. Bailey reported it to the office. He was the deputy collector. 

Q. You wrote to Mr. Bailey? — A. I saw Mr. Bailey in j)erson — he 
has charge of that division — and talked to him on the subject. 

Q. Did you see the letter which Bailey wrote to Bristol in regard to 
it? — A. No, sir; I do not recollect. 

Q. Did you ever see or hear of any letter that Bailey wrote to Powell, 
telling him that he was coming on a certain day to investigate about 
him? — A. I do not remember of seeing any letter about it. I heard this, 
that Bailey was going up there, and had notified Powell to be at home: 
that hewas coming up there to look into that matter, to investigate it. I 
did not see the letter, though. 

Q. Mr. Bristol saw it? — A. I do not know. It is very likely that he did. 
Mr. Bristol was once storekeeper, and was familiar with the duties of a 
storekeeper, and assisted Powell in making out his returns. 

Q. You and Mr. Powell are partners in business ? — A. ISTo, sir ; never 
have been until recently. We are owners of a thrashing machine for 
the last four weeks. 

Q. Are you not an owner of a livery stable? — A. I never have had a 
dollar's worth of interest in it. I assisted by selling him some stock 
and some buggies, but have no interest whatever. 

Q. Was he not made a storekeeper at your recommendation? — A. I 
assisted in the matter; yes, sir. 



THE .SIXTH DISTlilCT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 337 

(^. Did you ever intbriii Dr. Mott tliiit I'owcll was relate I or con- 
nected with the distiller; and did you iufoi-in him what was goiiifj;" on 
there in your opinion t — A. I had no risasou to believe that Powell was 
eonnectr'd with tlu' <listill(;r. I inforined theol'lice, throu<ih ]>;iiley, and 
tlie result of that inCoriiiation was, as I told you, the distillery was 
stopped, and Powell was leinoved. 1 infornuMl the oflice through (lei)\ity 
collector, beciiuse the de])uty collecitor had Ix'en up theic lie, w;is 
often there durinj;' every month. 

(}. ]Jid you not know from the (;onfession of I'owell, or othei wise, 
that he was violating- the law ? — A. I did not. J I«', made no such eontes- 
sion to me, but I merely insisted, with the dei)uty colhictor, that he 
should iuvestigate this matter. It was his ])rovince an<l duty alone t(^ 
do it. 1 merely did what was my moral duty to do as an ollicer ol' the 
government. 

(^. I!e(bre you did that, weretlu^ rumoishot and on all si<les, that he 
was violating the law, ami owner of that distillery — at which he was 
storekeeper? — A. It was uixui these rumors 1 did it; 1 heard it before. 

(^. JJid he not sell lifpior iVom that distillery ? — A. If he did, I did 
not kinnv of it to my knowledge. 

Q. ])id he not n^tail liquor in that town of Morganton, without either 
State or United States license? — A. Not to my knowledge; I had lu'ard 
such charges brought against him, ami called Mr. I>ailey's attention to 
these amongst other things. 1 really knew nothing oi" it, of iny own 
knowledg(?. - ■ j^ 

(^. Dave you beciu int<'reste(l in tin; profits of any <listillerv sim^cyou 
have been a government officer? — A. Never in the slight«'st degree, 
either directly or iiulirectl>', remot(^ or in any other way. 

Q. Have you not be<;n re:p(»rted to Dr. Mott as l>eing interested in a 
distillery'? — A. If so, I never heard of any su(;h report. 

Q. IIa<l you no interest whatever in the sales of whisk \ made by- 
Mr. Powell'?— A. None. 

Q. J>y n^ason of advances of corn? — A. 1 never sold Mr. Powell any 
coi'u. ile has oi>erat(Ml this distillery since 1 have heen a government 
otiicial and I have never had the slightest conncMMion with, nor winke<I 
or blinked at any violation of law. Since, 1 have been a .government 
ofticial 1 have tried to condu<;t myself above; rei)roach, or even sus- 
picion. 

Q. J)o yon know '^fhomas (larrison? — A- L do. 

Q. Jlas he been running a goNcrnnMiut distillery in J5uik(^ ('ounfy, 
sin<ie 1880? — A. He may have done so since 1880. II(; is not running 
one now; if he is, he is running in anothei- man's name. 

Q. What stonikeejx'r was appointed for him ? — A. L. A. IJi-iltain was 
the storekeeper for Thomas (iarrison, at tin; time, he oj>erat<'d the dis- 
tillery. 

(>. What kin was he to Mr. (larrison ? — A. None that I know. 

(,). "Whom did he marry? — A. A lady in (xaston County, by the naim; 
of iMason. 

Q. He has no relation or (;onn(!Ctiou with Mr. (jarrison ? — A. If so, 
not to my knowledge. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Staidey Walton? — A. 1 do. 

Q. Are you and he running a shingle ma<;him^, or something of that 
kind? — A. No, sir, we are not ; he and myself an<l his son-in-law, Mr. 
Burr, with Mr. Cobb, ordered an engine and shingh; machine. Before 
the engine got there, .Mr. Walton said to me, "There are so many of us 
in this thing — what do you say to letting Mr. liiirr take your interest 
in this matter?" I consented to it, and told him all right. The engine 
S. Mis. 116 '22 



338 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

filially arrived, but the machine never got there for a long time; shin- 
gles became dull, and the thing was never started. The machine was 
in the depot, and the engine out on the river, where we weie to put it 
up, and the partnership, so far as I am concerjiied, does not exist now. 

Q. Is Mr. Walton a storekeeper to any distillery? — A. Not now. 

Q. When was he? — A. iSeveral months ago, at Gerard Laiel's; that 
distillery has been in suspension for sometime. 

Q. Did not Mr. Burr run the distillery at onetime? — A. No, sir; not 
to my knowledge; it is Mr. Laiels'. Mr. Burr may have been down 
there. 

Q. W^as Mr. Burr interested in the distillery? — A. If so, I did not 
know it; it is on Mr. Walton's premises. I never heard that. 

Q. Who was Gerard Laiel? — A. He is a man that lives out there 
near Capt. Tate's, a land owner, and a hard working, industrious man. 
He is a man of some means, thrifty and thoroughgoing-. 

Q. Where was his distillery located? — A. Near the river, below Mr. 
Walton's house, some mile and a half from town. 

Q. You say it was bonded in Mr. Laiel's name? — A. Yes, sir. 

-Q. Who was his security ? — A. T. George Walton and D. C. Pearson. 

Q. Could you lawfully go on a distiller's bond ? — A. I had my doubts 
about it, and so expressed them at the time. But having confidence 
in Mr.Walton's integrity, and knowing, I suppose, that the government 
would be protected while he was there, I did it; and furthermore, I 
knew that the other bondsman, T. George Walton, was amply able to 
make the bond good without additional security. It is the only bond 
in that whole district that I am on, since I haA^e been a government 
officer. 

Q. What induced Mr. Walton to go on the bond?— A. In the first 
place he knew Mr. Laiel was the man I described him to be; and then 
liis son would be on duty there, was another reason for doing- it, I sup- 
pose. 

Q. Bid Mr. Laiel have any land of his own?— ^A. He owns quite a 
good plantation of 100 or 200 acres. 

Q. Why then did he put this distillery on Mr. Walton's land ? — A. I 
■cannot tell you why; it would be a matter of conjecrure ; it was near 
town and near a mill, and they would save hauling by it. 

Q. Did you not have any reason to know that Mr. Walton was in- 
terested in that distillery ? — A. I have no reason to know so. I have 
no personal knowledge of it, and no reason to believe it. 

Q. Or that Mr. Walton's son-in-law was the owner of it ? — A. I never 
heard of such a thing- before ; the only reason that I could possibly be- 
lieve that he had any interest in it, would be in having Mr. Walton con- 
stantly on duty at the distillery. 

Q. Mr. Walton is a partner of yours in merchandising? — A. It is 
iiardly a copartnership. I have assisted Mr. AValton, and Mr. Walton 
■js doing business as a merchant — as agent for his wife. I have some 
interest in that store. 

Q. Did you have any interest in that distillery, in the way you have 
spoken of with the others, furnishing- it corn ? — A. Not since I have been 
a government officer. I have not dealt in any corn. 

Q. Neither fluid nor solid ? — A, No, sir. 

Q. Did you sell some whisky in Asheville ? — A. When ? 

Q. Since 1880. — A. No, sir; I have never sold any whisky in Ashe- 
ville. I cashed a draft on Asheville for Mr. Fetherston, and gave the 
money to a distiller from whom he bought some whisky. 

Q. The distillers Avere Walker and Co. ? — A. He bought the Avhisky 
there, and paid the money to the distillers and took up the draft. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLtXA. 339 

Q. You (lid not sell wLisky tliere for yourself? — A. iSTo, sir 5 the 
whisky was bou.ij;ht direct troin the distiller by Fetherston ; and by 
reason of being- a general storekeeper and staniiting the whisky, I kueAV 
the existence of the draft, and procured it in that way. 

Q. Did you not make any chaige or give any information to Collector 
Mott about this distillery there on AValton's premises ? — A. Any in- 
formation, how ? 

(i. Any complaint or information. — A. There was never any complaint 
against it. 

Q. You never had any suspicion, and therfore could not make any 
complaint? — A. No, sir; it was run as regular, so far as I knew, as nuy 
distillery under my charge was running. 

Q. Do you know an instance in the territory nnder your supervision 
of storekeepers dividing their i)ay with distillers ? — A. Not of my own 
knowledge. 

Q. Do you know from the knowledge of others? — A. I have heard 
such rumors. 

Q. Of whom, and concerning whom? — A. The rumors have been 
g'eneral, and not confined to any particular person or storekeeper; that 
has been alleged. I want to say further, right here, that 1 have exerted 
my intluence to prevent any such rumors getting afloat, or any suspi- 
cion of any such thing; and have written to the ofiice refusing to rec- 
ommend the assignment of a man who was suspected of having di- 
vided his pay, even upon the suspicion of such a tiling, in order to 
break it up, if it existed. 

Q, Did you not talk with men who were susi)ected of blockading to get 
them to take out licenses for legal distilleries ? — A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. In doing so, did you ever advise them that they could arrange with 
the storekeeper? — A. Xo, sir; never made any such proposition. 

Q. 1 mean given tliem such an advice '? — A. I have given them sucli 
advice as would i)revent their blockading", and get them into the chan- 
nel of running according-to law. 

Q. What had tlie distillers to do in the selection of their storekeepers? 
— A. They had nothing to do with it. They had the matter of i)refer- 
ence about it, as each one naturally would have, where an officer was 
better acquainted with the distiller than any other person. They would 
ask for a imm of equal integrity, and all that sort of thing. If I had 
been the collector, I would have given the distillers thar recognition, 
and the collector endeavored to do so. 

Q. You would recommend it accordingly ? — A. I did, where the inter- 
ests of the government would be protected aiul the distiller pleased at 
the same time. I recommended that. 

Q. Did you ever at any time assign or recommend the assignment of 
a storekee])er to a distillery where the storekeeper was related to the 
distiller? — A. I might have done so, not knowing at the time of the 
relation. I do not know of any instance where I did it. If the rela- 
tionship had been a near one. I would not have been very apt to have 
done it; if distant, I might have done it. 

Q. Was M. C. Epley's distillery in your district while under sus]ien- 
siou? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much liquor was in it when it suspended? — A. There was 
re])orted to be several hundred gallons ; the exact number I cannot 
tell you. 

Q. Who was it reported by, the agent ? — A. That was the rejiort of 
the last storekee[)er in charge, and when the books were tnrne<l over 
to me, they sho\ved the existence of so many barrels containing so 



340 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

mauy gallous iu the warelionse. Soon after tlie distillery was put iu 
my charge, the distillery was broken into; and it was reported to the 
bondsmen, and I went up there. I wrote to the office, informing them 
about it. In the meantime, the barrels were very bad. Inileed the 
whisky was in bad condition, the whisky was very bad, too, besides be- 
low proof: mauy of the barrels were leaking, the staves loose, and the 
hoops oft". The best of the barrels were taken and refilled out of those 
barrels there that would not hold whisky. The empty barrels were re- 
ported as the regulations required them to be, in red ink, on the 87; 
and their tax was reported and put upon the assessment list of the 
deputy collector for the collection of the taxes. The warehouse was 
made as secure as we could make it, and locked up. 

Q. How many gallons were in the distillery, do you think, when re- 
ported to you by the storekeeper who last had it in charge, to the best 
of your knowledge? — A. There were between four and five hundred 
gallons, perhaps more. 

Q. AVhen it was seized and sold, how much was there f — A. Prior to 
the seizure and the selling I want to state another thing. There was 
still some three or four hundred gallons — nearly sixty or a hundred gal- 
lons had gone out of the warehouse then — which I reported. These 
bondsmen were induced to try and sell the whisky and take it out of 
there. It was in a remote place, and Mr, Epley was a man of bad repu- 
tation. These bondsmen talked to me about it. I told them their relief 
was to tax-pay the whisky and to take it out. The government did not 
require a man to stay there all the while to guard it, but only to lock it. 
It was entered again afterwards, or reported to be, rather ; the deputy 
went uj). I did not go that time because of his going; some of the 
bondsmen went to a man named McDowell, of McDowell & Co., who 
agreed with the bondsmen to take and tax pay the whisky and send 
for withdrawal stamps ; but, on account of the poor quality of the 
whisky, the man declined to take it and get the stamps. When the 
deputy collector took the whisky out of there, I do not think there was 
more than one barrel in there. I do not know how many gallons; I 
think between thirty and forty gallons. 

Q. You say the bondsmen complained frequentlj^ to you that the 
whisky was being stolen? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And asked you to take such action as would protect them ?— A. 
They had it in their power, and I did everything I conld. I could not 
stay there night and day to protect them. 

Q. Could you not have made a regauge ? — A. I did do that. 

Q. And take possession of it and haul it away to your ofiice ? — A. 
jS^o, sir; the law did not require that. The whisky was in the ware- 
liouse, which was locked ; and I did not care to become the bondsman 
of the whisky myself. 

Q. Nevertheless, in spite of the lock and key, they complained to you 
about it? — A. They did complain; yes, sir. 

Q. And when it was finally seized and sold, about a barrel of it was 
left"? — A. Yes, sir; the barrels were very bad. 

Q. Why did j'ou not sell it before ? — A. I had no authority to sell it 
at that time nor at any time. 

Q. Where did you get it afterwards ? — A. The deputy collector. 

Q. Why did you not make such representations to the deputy collec- 
tor as to induce him to go and seize ic and save the securities ? — A. The 
deputy collector knew this as well as I did. Of course they could have 
taken the whiskj'^ at any time. 

Q. By paying the taxes? — A. Yes, sir; when they paid the taxes 
they were liable for it any way, if the distiller failed to pay it. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 341 

Q. Notwithstaudiiig' that it was lost while undei' your care ? — A. It 
was not Tinder my care; it was in my charge by reason of the sus])ension. 
It was under their care ; they were the bondsmen lor it, and they lived 
in the neighborhood. 

Q. Who was the storekeeper for Peter Mull f — A. I do not think that 
Peter ]\Iull ever has run a licensed distillery since the district was con- 
solidate<l. Eiley Talent, who is a Democrat, was a])i)ointed, with a view 
of assigning' him to Peter's place, and he tried to induce him to quit 
blockading and run a government distillery. 

Q. Was not Cobb a storekeeper for Peter Mull at one time ? — A. I 
think not. 

Q. In 1874 or 1875? — A. If so, I do not remember. Peter ]\rull ran a 
distillery there before the consolidation ; Joel Cloud was his storekeepei', 
and a man named Bridgers. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. You mean that was before it went into the sixth district ? — A. Yes, 
sir; I do not think Mull overran a distillery since. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you recollect writing a letter to Mr. Cobb about that time, or 
early in 1870, about that distillery, cautioning him about his actions; 
that the times were squally, and he had better look out? — A. Ko, sir. 

Q. Yon did not write the letter? — A. Cobb, I think, was on duty at 
Huftman's distillery at that time. I wrote Col)b a letter telling him 
these rumors al)out his conduct, cautioning him to be more observant, 
and all that sort of thing ; that his distillery would probably undergo an 
inspection, and he ought to have everything right; but he was not at 
Mnll's, but at Huffman's — Huffman & Co's. I wish to state again that 
all of these transactions alluded to by the chairman were l)ef()re I had any 
connection with the government as an officer, or desired to have. 

Q. In connection with this question that I have asked you, whether 
you had ever been threatened with an indictment for these offenses, I 
will read to you from the rei)ort of the revenue agent, Jacob Wagoner : 

I have the honor to report that I have for. some time past been eiigajjed in an inves- 
tigation of the acts of certain persoius near Morganton, in the sixth district of North 
Carolina, among them R. A. Cobb, United States storekeeper and ganger ; D. C. Pear- 
sou, clerk Burke County superior court; Terrill Hiulson ; Hudson, John.son & Co., 
and Hutfmau & Co., distillers, all of whom are, and have been, engaged severally, 
and iu combination, to defiaud the revenue in unlawfully removing spirits, refilling 
empty stamped casks and re-using s]>irit stanji)S, with the result of securing what ap- 
pears to be conclusive evidence of their guilt. Being about to leave this district, I 
have placed this evidence in the hands jointly of Collector J. J. Mott and Revenue 
Agent Chapman, to be used in seizing property, and the liringiiig otfenders to pun- 
ishment. Collector Mott is very indignant at the conduct of storekeeper fJobb, who 
has thus grossly betrayed his contidence, ami is disjiosed to press the case against him 
and his associates. I trust that he may be instructed to cause his immediate removal 
fiom office, and that prosecution lie instituted against him, as he has been the leading 
8j)irit in the frauds, aud that Mr. Chapman may be advised of the importance of im- 
mediate action iu these cases. 

Did you ever hear of that before? — A. Never: that is the first of 
that. 

Q. Did Mv. Chai)man or Dr. Mott ever talk with you about it? — A. I 
want to explain; I never heard of that report;! heard of some sus- 
picions that Wagner had, aud wrote a letter demanding, so far as 1 was 
concerned, an investigation. I wrote that letter to Greensboro. 

Q. To whom? — A. Mr. J. B. Gritter. He was a deputy marshal un- 
der Douglass. Wagner had his headquarters at Greensboro, and 1 
told him to let Wagner know or Mr. Chapman, that I had heard such 



342 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

reports had been made to liiui, and demanded an investigation, and after 
be did investigate 'it, in conseqnence of that I suppose, a warrant was 
sworn out against Cobb. A tliorough investigation of the matter was 
had. I was present. I told the commissioner who condncted it to ask 
all sorts of questions, to see if I was implicated, Mr. Chapman was 
satisfied, and there never was an indictment got out against me. 

Q. Do 3^ou know if Mr. Chapman ever made a report? — A. I do not. 
I know this, in consequence of their investigation, that nothing was ever 
brought against me. I went to the court and told the district attorney 
that I was tired out with these insinuations and aspersions on me, and 
demanded that the thing should be looked into. 

Q. You did not demand it of the revenue agent, but you wrote to Mr. 
Gritter? — A. Dr. Mott knew my feelings in regard to it, and he and I 
liad a conversation in regard to it. He may have told me at one time 
how these matters were reported by these agents. 

Mr. Pool. Was Mr. Pearson an officer at that time. 

The Chair:\ian. jSTo, sir; A clerk of the court. , 

The Witness, ^o, sir; not seeking any office at the hands of the 
government. All this was known to the department wlien I was ap- 
pointed, and I judge if there had been any reason for the truth of these 
things, that mj' appointment would have been withheld, or not made. 
I will further state that the collector himself became satisfied of the un- 
truthfulness of it, or he never would have recommended my appoint- 
ment. 

P>y Mr. Pool : 

Q. Yon see your attention has been called to rumor after rumor, in 
regard to charges which you have answered here, and rumors in regard 
to others. 1 want to ask you tiiis question : were not rumors of all sorts 
of character rife at that time against first one and then another ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Especially active Eepublicans ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were not such rumors repeated on the stump by political speak- 
ers there ? — A. They were ; but I never had a rumor of this sort repeated 
against me on the stump. 

Q. Did it not seem to be a part of the political warfare to deal in 
rumors and start rumors ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Against the revenue officers and Republicans who had any con- 
nection with the revenue f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You have met their insinuations against yourself of that sort very 
squarely. In your opinion were not most of these rumors false? — A. In 
many instances they were — very many. 

Q. Was it not considered very fortunate if a man could get an iuA^es- 
tigation into one of these rumors ? — A. It was. These agents pursued 
an underhand course. They did not meet a man fairly and squarely 
with their charges. I liave no doubt now that these reports that I 
heard, were hunted up secretly by men unfriendly to me, and they 
asked all sorts of questions as to what they could secure from enemies 
of mine. Mull is an enemy of mine; and if they had found anything, it 
would have been followed up b.5^ an indictment. 

Q. You consider yourself fortunate in getting an opportunity to 
have the rumors investigated? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were a merchant years ago, before the consolidation of the 
district? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In Morgauton; and a part of your business was to sell produce? — 
A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 343 

Q. Not only corn, but other produce? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And these sales that you made to people, Avho were alleged to be 
illicit distillers and others were in the regular course of your business .' — 
A. Why, certainly. 

Q. You did not consider that you had any right to refuse a man a 
bushel of corn because it might be said that he was an illicit distiller'? 
— A. Other merchants did the same thing. 

Q. There was jiothing in it different from the mercantile business of 
your placet — A. We all did it exactly alike: the men who got the trade 
did it. 

Q. Your attention was called to your having recommended not only 
Cobb but six or seven others to Doctor Mott for appointment! — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Did all the other men whom you recommended and got appointed 
turn out to be faithful, good oflicers ? — A. I never heard any charge 
made against any of the others to my knowledge. 

Q. The ])osition j'ou recommended Cobb to was that of special dep- 
uty? — A. Special deputy; yes, sir. 

Q. Is it the duty of a sjjccial deputy to do anything more than to go 
around policing and breaking up illicit distilleries ? — A. Nothing else, 
whatever. 

Q. Has he anything to do with the collection of the revenue? — A. 
Nothing at all. 

Q. Does he handle any public money? — A. None. 

Q. He has no responsil)ility to the government pecuniaiily at all? — A. 
None. I said further that the |)utting of Cobb on this special force met 
with the ai)probation of Mr. Chapman, the revenue agent. 

Q. And that was after his history had been investigated? — A. Yes, 
sir; investigated thoroughly. 

Q. Was Cobb an active, efficient man? — A. Very, sir; proved to be 
afterwards, while on duty as a special deputy. 

Q. Was he well acquainted with the mountain roads and bridle- 
paths all through that section of the country ? — A. Very well, sir; yes, 
sir. 

Q. Was he not specially fitted, after his reform, for the character of 
the work giveji to him on account of the special information that he had 
in regard to these illegal distilleries? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that not a good reason to appoint him? — A. That was the 
reason given for putting him in, by Mr. Chapman particuhirly. 

By the Chairman. He knew how it was himself. 

Tlie Witness. Mr. Chapman thought so. 

By Mr. Pool. It turned out to be so. 

The Witness. It turned out that Cobb was very eflflcient and faith- 
ful, as I know, while on duty in that capacity. 

Q. You said that Mr. Cobb since that time had been indicted on the 
charge of having made out false accounts? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did that false account relate to the revenue at all ? — A. It was 
not that kind of fraud. 

Q. Not against the revehue? — A. Oh, no sir; it was, as I understand, 
while these men were in attendance at court they were allowed their 
exj>enses, whatever that might be. 

Q. It was a fraud against the court? — A. I do not know what it was 
against. 

Q. It was against the court, and in relation to the fund for witnesses 
for the prosecution, came out of the coiirc funds expended by the mar- 
shal ? — A. It goes through there. Who paid by, I don't know. 



344 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL KEVENUE IN 

Q. Dr. Mott bad nothing to do with if? — A. No, sir. 

The Chairman. I think that you are mistaken about that. I think 
the travebng- expenses incurred by special deputies in all kinds of duty 
are paid and duly approved in Dr. Mott's office. 

Mr. Pool. He was attending court as a witness? — A. Yes, sir; that 
is my understanding. I merely give this froai information. Maybe it 
had nothing to do with this voucher. 

The Chaieman, Witnesses who receive full salary get no per diem 
when attending court ; they get only their actual expenses. 

Mr. Pool. This account was an expense account. 

The Witness. That is paid by the marshal. 

The Chairman. If he went down to court as a part of his duty as a 
deputy, it would be his traveling expenses, and go through Dr. Mott's 
office; his fee as a witness would be paid by the marshal of the court. 

Mr. Pool. This account was for his board bill at court while attend- 
ing as a witness? — A. Yes, sir; and the irregularity was discovered in 
the marshal's department 'at court, and it was gotten up there as al- 
leged by these men, who were unfriendly to the collector, as a lick at 
Dr. Mott over Cobb's shoulders. I gi\e you that, not as my own knowl- 
edge, but just what 1 have heard. 

Q. When Cobb was running his still, it was a legal still was it not? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But that was before the consolidation of the district? — A. Ko; 
Cobb ran a legal distillery since the consolidation of the district, in 1876 
or 1877 or 1878, somewhere along there. 

Q. You were asked if you did not engage in selling some wliisky in 
Asheville, and you said that you did not, and spoke of a draft that you 
had cashed; was that for your own personal convenience f — A. Why, cer- 
tainly. 

Q. I understood you to say, thongl©it did not appear very distinct, 
that you did pay it to some one there ? — A. I did ; that was the reason I 
procured it. 

Q. You bought the draft for your own convenience in order to pay a 
debt?— A. Yes, sir, 

Q. These notes are negotiable ? — A. Certainly; drawn on the bank at 
Asheville. I sent the draft to Mr. Pearson, to whom I was indebted, and 
he presented it to the bank, and it was i)aid. 

Q. Was there anything improper in notifying Mr. Powell to be pres- 
ent so that he might answer? — A. Nothing; a matter of convenience 
to save Mr. Bailey the trouble of getting there when Mr. Powell was 
out of town. 

Q. If Mr. Powell had really been interested as one of the owners of 
this distillery, such a notice to him could not change that fact "? — A. I 
do not see how it could. 

Q. You do not see how the notice would have put him on guard in 
any ^vay at all ? — A. JSTot in any way. The noti(;e might have this effect 
if Powell had been blockading or anything of that sort. 

Q. This was not a charge of blockading, but of being a part owner? 
— A. He could not change that offense if it existed. 

Q. Y^ou think it probable that Bailey notified him so that he would be 
on hand and he could see or hear what he had to state. — A. Saw noth- 
ing improper in it. 

Q. I wall call your attention to Mr. Epler and that distillery: Was it 
ifl any way your duty to protect that whiskj^, except to see that the 
warehouse Avas kept locked? — A. Ko, sir. 

Q. The sureties had that upon their shoulders ? — A. I should have 



THE HIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 345 

felt it iny duty njioii an examination, etc., if it liad been uihsafe, to have 
procured nail.s and a haunner and make the Iiou«e as secure as possible. 

Q. Whicli you did ?— A. Certainly, I did. 

Q. That was the whole duty required of you! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When those sureties couiplained to you, you discharged all the 
duty that the law put u])on your shoulders!? — A. I endeavored to do 
so. 

Q. Did you explain to them that the go\'ernment would hold them 
responsible for every gallon ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the government lose anytbing at all by that wbisky having 
been taken out? — A. I do not know that the money has been collected 
as yet. The bonds are in suit. If the bonds are good they certainly 
have lost nothing. 

Q. Do you not know that the bonds are good ? — A. I do not take the 
bonds. I do not ])ass upon them. I have nothing- to do with them. 

Q. I3ut, still, in law the government would be entitled to just as much 
for the whisky so taken out as if it had staid there? — A. Certainly. 

The committee took a recess until L' p. in. 

Washington, D. C, Friday, Jnhi 14, 1882. 

The committee met after recess at 2 p. m. 

E. S. Walton sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. At Morganton. 

Q. What is your occupation !^A. I am merchandising now. I have 
been United States storekeej^er, but have not l)een on duty for eight 
months; since I have engaged in business. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with the Gth collection district of North 
Carolina ? — A. Portions of jt, sir. 

Q. Do you know five, six, or seven years ago, and along there, that 
there was a great deal of trouble about collecting the internal revenue 
in that district ? — A. Yes, sir; you refer to blockading there! 

Q. Yes, sir; and resistance to the laws. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. A general denunciation of revenue laws and a feeling in the com- 
munity aiherse to the collector's office! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. i)id it exist to a very great extent? — A. I think it did. 

Q. Has it improved ! — A. Decidedly so. 

Q. Was it at one time unsafe for revenue officers to go unarmed and 
unattended through parts of that district? — A. I think so. 

Q. Can they go now safely? — A. Yes, sir; no resistance at all now. 

Q. ])o you attribute that improvement to Dr. Mott's care, diligence, 
and judgment in the execution of his office? — A. Yes, sir; and the es- 
tablishment of these small distilleries. 

Q. Is Dr. Mott a man of high character ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For integrity and truth? — A. Yes, sir; I have heard him very 
highly s])oken of by all classes of people in our section of the country 
as an officer. 

Q. You say you were once a storekeeper? — A. I am, sir; but a store- 
keeper not on duty, and have not ])een on duty for eight or nine months. 

Q. Will you state with whom you last were storekeeper? — A. At the 
distillery of Gerard Laiel. 

Q. Did your son-in-laAv become interested in that distillery while you 
were there as a storekeeper! — A. Yes, sir. 



346 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. You had been tbere as a storekeeper a good while before? — A.. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How long did you remain there after he became interested? — A. 
Only a few months. 

Q. Then you were taken off duty, and have not been on since? — A. 
I have not l3een on since ; no, sir. 

Q. Do you know D. C. Pearson, who was a witness on the stand this 
morning I — A. I do. 

Q. Do you know the character he bears in the community in which 
he now lives? — A. 1 think I do. 

Q. You both live in the same town ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Will you state what it is? — A. It is good. 

Q. Is it very high? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. 

Q. Is it high among all classes of people? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You have heard, of course, floating rumors or attacks upon him, 
as you have upon other revenue officers? — A. Oh! Yes, sir. 

Q. Are these rumors upon Mr. Pearson credited at all? — A. I think 
not. 

Q. He has been a very active politician ? — A. Very. 

Q. Republican? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Before he was a revenue officer, was he very active in politics? — 
A. Yes, sir; he was the clerk of the court there. 

Q. The County of Burke, in which yon and he reside, is a Democratic 
county, is it not? — A. Yes, sir; has been for several years. 

Q. Was it not a Democratic county when Mr. Pearson was elected 
clerk? — A. I think it was. 

Q. W^as he not elected clerk several times over and over again?— A. 
I think only twice. 

Q. Although he is an active partisan Republican, he carried this 
Democratic county twice? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. About what Democratic majority was there in the county at that 
time?— A. About 250 or 500. 

Q. So Mr. Pearson had that to overcome? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is an evidence of the estimate in which the peo])le of that 
community hold him ? — A. I think so ; he is very popular there in the 
county. 

Q. Did he discharge the duties of his office, as clerk, well? — A. Yes, 
sir; he discharged the duties well as clerk, in a satisfactory manner to 
every oue. 

Q." He resigned the office? — A. He resigned the office and accepted 
a position in the revenue. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman: 

Q. AVhen Avere you first assigned to Laiel's distillery? — A. I think it 
was in 1879. 

Q. At what time in 1879 ? — A. I won't be positive ; I think it was 
probably in February, 1879. 

Q. How long did you act there? — A. I acted off' and on until the dis- 
tillery was under suspension ; I think for about eighteen months. 

Q. When did Mr. Burr acquire an interest in it? — A. I think about 
the last of April a year ago — April or May ; I will not be positive — that 
is just my recollection about it. 

Q. That would be April or May of 1881 ?-^A. Yes, sir. 

How long after that did you stay as storekeeper? — A. I think three 
months. 

Q. Who did INIr. Burr buv his interest from? — A. From Air. Laiel. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 347 

Q. Who fnrnislied him the ineaus to bay it? — A. To buy Laiel's iu- 
erest ! 

Q. Yes.— A. 1 did. 

Q. Was it known by the community there that Mr. Burr had an in- 
terest in that distillery? — A. I do not know that it was. The distillery 
was run in Laiel's name. 

Q. Did you have no interest iu it at all ? — A. Xone whatever, 

(}. Did your fatlier have an interest iu it? — A. None whatever. 

Q. Did any of your eonnections? — A. None at all, sir. 
" Q. How came the distillery to l)e placed on your land ? — A. It was 
much more convenient for me, when 1 attended the distillery. 1 con- 
sented for it to be put there. 

Q. The distillery was put there for your convenience, was it ? — A. 
Yes, sir. I consented, and preferred its beini;- there. 

Q. Was it a new establishment or a distillery moved there from 
another place? — A. A new establishment. 

Q. What interest did Mr. Burr accpiire in it ? — A. He had the entire 
interest. 

Q. He bougiit it up ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say Mr. Pearson, before he became a revenue officer, was an 
active jtolitician ? — A. Yes, sir ; he was so considered then. 

.Q. And that he was elected twice to the clerk's office ? — A. That is 
my recollection. 

Q. In a Democratic county? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. W^hich side did Mr. Pearson then claim to be on ?— A. Why, lie 
was running" as a Republican. 

Q. Has there not been some little doubt always in the minds of the 
community which way he was balancing? — A. He had a way ])eculiar 
to himself, and men have remarked that he was a little wishy-washy. 

Q. Did lie not vote the Democratic ticket sometimes? — A. I cannot 
say as to that ; my understanding from him has been that he voted the 
Republican ticket. 

Q. Did he not on several occasions support General Yance for Con- 
gress ? — A. Not to my knowledge j he may have done so. 

Q. He was not a very decided Republican was he, at all, until lat- 
terly ? — A. More so latterly. They usually get better. 

Q. As long as they last they get better ? — A. Yes, sir ; he had been 
brought uj) a Democrat, and he started out a Democrat originally, I 
think, as a boy. 

Q. I mean since the war? — A. I think he was a Democrat at first, 
.after the war. 

Q. Did not his Republicanism improve after he got a revenue office; 
was he not a better Republican than while he was clerk of the court in 
a Democratic county? — A. I cannot say as to that. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Garrison ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. VV. J. Patterson ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know a young man by the name of Gudger, who is a store- 
keeper ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What is his given name ? — A. I do not recollect his given name; 
I know Gudger was a storekeeper. 

Q. What akin are Thomas and William Garrison? — A. They are 
brothers. 

Q. What akin are they and Mr. Patterson ? — A. Patterson is a nephew. 

Q. Do you not know that the interest in a distillery running in the 
name of flohn Brittain belonged to one of the Garrisons ? — A. No, sir; 
I do not know whose names those distilleries were in. 



348 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. What was tlie common understaudiiig in the community about 
it ? — A. I thought that Mr. Garrison was running- the distillerie^s, but I 
• do not know whether in his name or whose name they were in. 

Q. You thought Garrison was running the distillery f — A. I thought 
lie Avas. 

Q. And who was the storekeeper to John Brittaiu's distillery— the 
one running in his name, at least ? — A. I know there are two distilleries 
out there, to which Patterson and Gudger were assigned. \Yhose dis- 
tilleries they are I do not know; I just know they were out there, and 
assigned to some of these distilleries. I do not know whether Patter- 
son was at Brittain's — I do not know how it was. 

Q. Do you know J. T. Patterson, senior? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What akin is he to the other Patterson? — A. He is father. 

Q. Father of one and the nncle of the other? — A. He is the father 
of William Patterson and brother-in-law of William Garrison. 

Q. And what akin is Mr. Gudger to the old man?^— A. I do not know. 

Q. Did he not marry his daughter or niece? — A. I think he married 
his daughter. 

Q. Wliat position did J. T. Patterson, senior hold?— A. He is United 
States commissioner. 

Q. So the commissioner, and the store-kepeers, and the man whom 
it was thought was running the distillery, were all akin ? — A. Mr. Pat- 
terson and Mr. Garrison were akin and so was Mr. Gudger. 

Q. If Mr. Garrison had any interest in the distillery, of course he was 
akin also ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say there was a feeling in that country against the enforcement 
of the revenue laws? — A. I think there was. 

Q. Was there not ground for that bad feeling ? — A. I think that the 
blockaders were rather encouraged there by some of onr people, who 
rather winked at it. 

Q. So you told Mr. Pool ; I asked you if there was not ground for 
this bad feeling which was in the community against the revenue ofti- 
cers ? — A. The revenue officers, or raiders as we call them out tliere, 
would go and capture their stills and cut them up. I heard occasion- 
ally some of them complaining that they had been abused, or something 
of the sort. 

Q. Were they not accused of terrorizing over the jieople, going about 
armed, insulting people, riding rough-shod over the commnnity and 
acting as lawless men? — A. I did hear that. 

Q. Were they not all active Eepublicau politicians in the revenue 
de])artment? — A. These raiders? 

Q. Yes? — A. No, sir; occasionally you found a Democrat with the 
raiders. 

Q. How long did he stay a Democrat? — A. I just have one or two in 
my mind no-w. One of them I think was a Democrat when he went in, 
then he was a Eepublicau a long while, and recently I have seen him 
in the Democratic converntions. 

Q. He is no longer in office? — A. I think he is still in office, but I do 
not think he is on duty. 

Q. Do you not think that if these revenue officers had gone quietly for- 
ward, and executed the duties of their office, instead of making so much 
fuss in politics, that there would not be so much feeling against tfiein? — 
A. I think that if the better class of our people had discouraged block- 
ading, but rather encouraged these men to put it down, we wouhl not 
have had so much trouble. 

Q. You do not answer my question. I asked you if you did not think if 



THE .SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOKTH CAR »LIXA. 34D 

these nieu bad goue quietly forward and executed the hiw, and not taken 
any such active i)art in politics, there would not have been so much 
feeling against theiu ? — A. I have no doubt that their politics encour- 
aged the feeling. 

Q. Their action as partisans encouraged the feeling against them. 

By Mr. Pool. 

Q. Mr. Burr was your son-in law ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You said that the distillery was i)ut upon your land for conven- 
ience? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What convenience was it; was there not a mill close by? — A. Yes^ 
sir; a mill close by, and grain, and nuu-h more convenient to town. 

Q. And it was more convenient to the town than if it had been on 
]Mr. Laiel's land? — A. Y"es, sir. 

Q. How far does Mr. Laiel live from town ? — A. Four miles from town. 

Q. How near was this to the town? — A. Three (piarters of a mile." 

Q. Then it was more convenient, more easy to get grain, and nearer 
to town! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that is the convenience of which you spoke ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You do not mean that it was put there at your instance — for your 
convenience? — A. Xo, sir; not particularly for ray convenience. Of 
course, though, it was much more convenient for me. 

J. E. Henderson sworn and examined for the government: 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. Two miles above Wilkes - 
boro'. 

Q. What is your business nowf — A. I am a storekeeper and ganger 
at this time. 

Q. For whom?— A. J. R. Coombs. 

Q. How long have you been storekeeper and ganger? — A. Since the 
loth or loth of October, ISO!), the date when I was assigned there, until 
some time in 1871:. 

Q. Were you engaged at anytime as a revenue ofiUcer before that 
time? — A. Yes, sir; 1 have l>een assistant surveyor, deputy collector, 
assessor, deputy marshal, and ganger, 1 believe. 

Q. Were you ever storekeeper before that time? — A. ]^o, sir; never 
storekeeper before that time. 

Q. How long were you out of the service altogether ? — A. About seven 
years, I think ; since then until last October, when I went into the service 
again. 

Q. And then you went to Combs'? — A. Yes, sir; I went to Combs'. 

Q. That was the tirst time you had been in the service for seven 
years? — A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. What kind of a distillery did Combs run ? — A. A four-bushel dis- 
tillery. 

Q. How much was the product? — A. You mean in the different 
months ? 

Q. I mean per bushel — the average production. — A. He makes to the 
rise of two gallons. 

Q. Did you know anything of any ofticer, during the time you have 
been acquainted with the service — any storekeepers and gangers di- 
viding their pay with the distillers? — A. I have no personal knowledge 
of it. 

Q. If you have heard of such things, yilease give us the names of 
those whom you have heard did it ? — A. 1 have heard it as talk and ap- 



350 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

plied generally. I have not beard any one specially connected with 
it. Yes, I did' hear of one man in Yadkin Connty. 

By Mr. Pool: 
Q. That is in the sixth district? — A. Yes, sir; I believe he was the 
only person that I can bring to mind that was mentioned specially, and 
that was from a revenne agent who told me that. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. What agent"? — A. Mr. Kellogg. 

Q. Who was it he said had divided? — A. One Longeuour; and he 
told me the whole history about Longenour. 

Q. Do yon know whether he made any report of it or not? — A. I do 
not. I will tell you the conversation as near as I can. When he met 
Mr. Longenour at his distillery, he said what were you doing in town 
yesterday"? He said he went to town to get his mule, and then he asked 
him if he had not divided his pay with the distiller, and he said he de- 
nied it, but his actions were such that he thought he had done it, but 
he had no proof of it, and he asked for him to be relieved froui that dis- 
tillery. 

Q. That was the whole history of it? — A. That was as I heard it. 

Q. Did you know a Mr. May or Mays, a distiller in the lower part of 
Wilkes? — A. I did not know such a distiller; if there is such a distiller 
in the county, I do not know it. 

Q. Do you know Kiddle, Parker, and Sanders? — A. I know Parker; 
I am not very well acquainted with Kiddle. 

Q. Had they been distilling? — A. Sanders has one running now. 

Q. Where was it in 1879? — A. About two miles below AVilkesboro, I 
thmk. 

Q. Do you know anything of any whisky having been made there 
while their distillery was under suspension? — A. I do not of mj own 
knowledge. 

Q. wiiat did you hear about it? — A. I have heard such a report. 

Q. Was there ever an investigation made that you know of about 
it?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who investigated it? — A. Mr. Kellogg. 

Q. What did he find'? — A. He said he found that there was some 
liquor seized — some two hundred gallons. He said that some man told 
him that it was made at a government distillery. He knew it by the 
taste of the whisky. He said he had no doubt of it, that it was made 
at that distillery, but he could not get the evidence on it. I talked with 
him on the subject. 

Q. Who was the storekeeper? — A. I think Mr. Smith. 

Q. What Smith?— A. Theophilus Smith. 

Mr. Pool. Do you mean while the distillery was under suspension? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Pool. There is no store keeper at a distillery under suspension. 

The Chairman. There were over two thousand gallons there. 

The Witness. I do not know. 

Q. Was it under the charge of Theophilus Smith as the store-keeper 
or general storekeeper there? — A. He was storekeeper at that distil- 
lery. 

Q. Do you know of any other frauds that were said to have been per- 
petrated in tliat county of your own knowledge? — A. Only reports. 

Q. Will you tell us 'what reports you have heard? — A. I have heard 
of some storekeepers that were loose in their business, and know that 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 351 

t was rre(inei)tly charged that they (li^■ided tlieir salaiy — that they 
weie rather loose. 

Q. Did yon hear tliat storekeepers had assisted in removing whisky 
from the cistern rooms? — A. Yes, sir; I have heard snch reports as 
that. 

Q. Can yon give the names of the parties who were charged with 
it? — A. No, sir; I cannot. 

Q. What were tlie re])orts; give us some particulars of the reports? — 
A. Well, sir, I had talks Avith some storekeepers that had been loose 
in the business, ami probably allowed the distiller to remove the whisky 
without paying the taxes. 

Q. They "had private dealings with the distillers? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any tubs being cut down, up in that country 
when JVIr." Kellogg Avas expected to visit the country? — A. I do not 
know; there was a survey ordered there once — I don't know whether 
before Mr. Kellogg came up, or directly afterwards — and a new survey 
of all the distilleries in that country was made. Some tubs were con- 
sidered too large and some were not large enough — not as large as the 
law allowed. 

Q. What did that survey result in as a general rule? — A. The tub is 
allowed to hold sixty gallons of water to the bushel of nuish. If the 
tub holds over sixty gallons, the distiller could use nunc meal ; if it holds 
under he could not use his meal, because the nmsli would be too thick; 
if it Avas over and it was too thin he could put in more meal and keep it 
at the same gravity. 

(i. What was the result of that survey — did it result in a cutting down 
of the tubs ? — A. I believe some of the tubs were cut down ; Ijut very little, 
though. 

Q. J^id Capt. Peden go around and examine things when it was heard 
Mr. Kellogg Avas coming? — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. He Avas the officer that made this surA'ey ? — A. He Avas not the 
othcer Avho made the first survey. I think he was on duty when Mr. 
Kellogg came. 

Q. How is the state of things up there in that country? — A. What 
do you allude to? 

Q. I mean the feeling toward the revenue officers executing the law, 
and so on? — A. The feeling toward the rcAenue officers is not as bitter 
as it has been there. Very little is said now in regard to the revenue when 
a raid is made at this time on the distillers; there is very little blockad- 
ing going on, if any. There used to be a great deal of talk Avith the 
])eoi)le when a distillery Avas cut down. They generally ran everywliere 
telling each other that the officers Avere coming. But there is veiy little 
said about that now. 

Q. AVhere was most of the blockade distilling done in Wilkes 
County? — A. In the JJrushy Mountains, south of Wilkesboro, on Hunt- 
ing Creek, or rather southeast, ami there on Mulberry, north about nine 
miles and Avest about nine miles. 

Q. Was this illicit distilling contined to an}' particular party? — A. 
Jso, sir. 

Q. All were included in it Avithout regard to politics? — A. 1 belicA'C 
so. 

Q. Was resistance to the officers, if any took place, confined to any 
political ]>arty ? — A. Not in every instance. The l{e])u))licans sometimes 
resisted the officers. 

Q. Were the liepublicans up there as a general rule like they Avere in 
other parts of the countiy — strong party men? — A. The officers as a 



352 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

general things were Eepublicans. There were some exceptions ; one of 
the raiders I knew to be a Democrat. 

Q. Were they active party men, working lor their party ? — A. Work- 
ing as Democrats for their party? 

Q. jSTo; were they for the Eepublicans? — A. Oh, yes, most of the 
officers that are Republicans are active men working for their party. 

Q. Did the revenue department run the politics of that country, so 
far as its policy, candidates, etc., were concerned? — A. To some extent. 

Q. That is so all over the district, so far as you know ? — A. I cannot 
give 3'OU any positive answer out of my county. The distillers are gen- 
erally the leading men of the party, therefore they have a great deal to 
do in shaj^ing things. 

Q. If the officers had not been active party men ; had not been work- 
ing for their x)arty so much, would there not have been less feeling 
against them ? — A. I cannot tell that, because the Eepublicans got as 
mad when a distillery was cut up as the Democrats. That Avas the 
general feeling against the revenue. All parties felt ver^^ bitter at one 
time against them. 

Q. This feeling was from all parties"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Would not that feeling have been a little less bitter A. (Inter- 
rupting) I do not tbink an officer could have done his duty and had the 
good will of anybody when I first went in. 

Q. Without regard to his politics? — A. Without regard to his poli- 
tics. I went there under Mr. Wylie. There had been one deputy's barn 
burned up, and another notified that if he ever moved any more, to take 
the consequences; another knocked into a slop-vat, and the distiller 
tried to turn the slop out on him; and one deputj^ killed. 

Q. Who M^as that that was knocked into the slop-vat"? — A. Mr. Sprin- 
kle, from Charlotte. 

Q. Who was the distiller? — A. I cannot call his name just now. I 
arrested him after that. 

Q. Who was killed "? — A. I forget his name ; he was killed before I 
went into the service. And when I went there Wylie said to me, if I 
went there and executed the law he would give me a deputy's position; 
that be never had a man he could get to execute the law there, and he 
warned me that I took my life in my hand when I went there. 

Q. And you went ? — A. I did. 

Q. And did your duty ? — A. I did. 

Q. And you are here yet"? — A. I am here yet; and I made some 
friends while executing it. 

Q. You became a citizen of that countj* and bought some property 
there ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. Mr. Kellogg told you that lie had recommended Mr. Longenour's 
removal? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was he removed"? — A. He was, from that distillery. 

Q. Mr. Kellogg told you that he thought, or that somebod}" told him 
that they thought, that 2,00 gallons were made down at that distillery, 
because it tasted like it was made there *? — A. Yes, sir; he said that was 
a very vague idea. 

Q. Could lie prove by any other reason tbat it was made there, except 
the taste"? — A. He said the party could not. 

Q. Mr. Kellogg was a revenue officer "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know he reported the facts about the 200 gallons that were 
made there on that testimony"? — A. I do not know that he reported it;, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 606 

several of the revenue officers told me — the special force — tliat tbey 
thouii^lit that it was made there, but could not get auy proof of it. 

Q. Do you know of any peculiar taste to the whisky that was made 
at that particular still? — A. I d(> not know that I could tell the taste 
between that and any made anywhere else. I am not a very good 
judge of the article. 

Q^ You say a survey was ordered f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know wlio ordered tlie survey? — A. 1 do not know. There 
was a survey nuide of the distilUnies. 

Q. Ordered by the revenue authorities of the district ? — A. I sup- 
pose so. 

Q. For the ])urpose of Imving the tubs cut down to conform to the 
law? — A. To the law. 

Q. They found some of them a little less, and some of them a little 
more? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were indicted up there in connection with that administration 
of the office of ganger, were you not 1 — A. Yes, sir, as a ganger. 

Q. What were you indicted for? — A. Well, sir, there was a discrepancy 
between one month's a(;count, where it appeared in the account that I 
had charged for tw(^ distilleries where I had not worked at all. 

Q. Do you mean one or two that you had not worked at ? — A. Two, 
that I had not worked at. I worked at three distilleries for which there 
was no charge made, and another ganger made an account for the work, 
and my work was made out for his work — -just vice verm. 

Q. Did you make out the account?— A. No, sir, 1 did not. 

Q. Who made it out ? — A. Clarke made it out. 

Q. You mean Mr. Clarke in Dr. Mott's office? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who made out the other ganger's accounts? Clarke made out the 
other accounts also ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were your's sent in as made out by Mr. Clarke?— A. I signed the 
account myself, but I never examined the account — -just merely signed it. 

Q. It was found that it was a mistake of Clarke's. — A. Yes, sir ; a 
mistake. 

Q. Did it turn out to be so in this case ?— A. It did. I did not get my 
59. I reported to the office of the Commissioner wheu they showed me 
the account. They said there was a discrepancy, and that I liad not done 
the work. It was JMr. Foster's. I told them I had not worked there. 
I told them that it was a mistake, and if they would look up my 59 in 
the form I reported, they would find that I worked at Lanier's and 
Dulan's. 

Q. What time was that; what year ?— A. I think it was in 1874. 

Q. It was then a blunder of Mr. Clarke's?— A. Yes, sir; unintention- 
ally. 

Q. On Clarke's part ? — A. He could not have any motive for it, unless 
he was an enemy, because he would not have received a cent for doing it. 

Q. Then you had to put in an amended voucher? — A. They paid me 
upon the account according to the work. If I ha<l got my own work it 
would have given me a larger sum than the amount of the one I had. 

Q. So really the statement of Clarke was against your interest? — A. 
Against my interest. I worked at three distilleries instead of two, an<l 
it only gave me credit for the work at two. 

Q. Was the indictment settled ? — A. It was nolle-prossed. 

(^ Did it turn out then to be simply a mistake of Dr. Mott's clerk, in 
making up the accounts ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Which you signed without examining ? — A. Those men were very 
particular. They had sent back two or three accounts, I knew, to his 
S. Mis. IIG 23 



'35 i COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

office, for tlie gangers did not understaudhow to uiake them out accord- 
ing to wiiat we called the "red-tape" system, and so we got Clarke to 
make them out, so that our accounts would not be hung up at the 
department, and we would get our pay. I said further that I had done 
more work than I had charged the government for. I had done a great 
deal of work as a deputy collector, as a matter of convenience, and 
heli)ed Mr. Eamsey, who was a deputy in that district. 

By the Chairman: 
Q. What year was that? — A. Some time between 1870 and 1874. 
Q. It must have been after 1872 ?— A. It was after 1872. I worked 
under Mr. Wylie for four years. 

By Mr. Tool : 

Q. Was uot Clarke in the habit of making out accounts for otlier 
gangers ? — A. I think he made out most of the gangers accounts in the 
district. 

Q. Did he not make some blunders for others 1 — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Mr. Crane reported those, did he not ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Up here to the bureau ? — A. Yes, sir, to Washington City. 

Q. Mr. Crane was the revenue agent? — A. Yes, sir; I told him to 
investigate my accounts. 

Q. What did Crane say to you ? What was his report after he found 
out how it was? — A. I told him from the dates w^here I made my ac- 
counts to investigate them. I told him I admitted those mistakes after 
I saw them, but if from the date I commenced making out my accounts, 
if he investigated it, and found a dollar charged to the G-overnment 
not actually worked for, that I would plead guilty in any court ; and he 
investigated it, and the end of it was that he made a nolle pros, of it. 

Q. Did he tell you that he made a mistake in his former report "? — A. 
He said he found it different ; when he commenced investigating it he 
looked upon it that I had been doing something corruptly. 

Q. Did he not tell you that he found that it was a mistake in regard 
to the others "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you not hear that upon his investigation he had expressed 
himself that it was "all boshf — A. He used that expression about some 
accounts that were put in by Mr. Kestler, when he talked to me about 
them ; he was very much embittered against Dr. Mott, and said that 
he would investigate those things, and if he found it like he thought it 
was, he intended to turn Dr. Mott out. After his investigation he told 
me he found it was all bosh. 

Q. He spoke especially of the Kestler matter ? — A. Kestler and other 
vouchers. 

Q. And Eamsey's ? — A. I do not know whether he mentioned Eam- 
sey 's or not, but some others. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When did this talk take place between you and Mr. Crane ? — A. 
It was the second term of the court at Statesville. 

Q. In what year '? — A. Afier he had made his investigation of the 
officers. 

Q. What year was that ? — A. It has been seven or eight years ago. 

Q. How long was it after Clarke had made this mistake in your 
vouchers ? — A. How long was it afterwards % 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. It was some six or eight months, during one term of 
the court or another. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 355 

Q. Wlicn were you indicted ? — A. I forget the year ; I could uot tell 
without looking on some papers, probabl3\ 

Q. Mr. Clarke left Doctor Mott's office in 1874 ?— A. I think that was 
the time, somewhere in 1874. 

Q. He left it on account of being indicted for those various mistakes ? 
— A. Yes, sir ; he was susi>ended. I do not know whether turned out. 

Q. Of course he was in when he made the mistake in your vouchers ? 
— A. Yes, sir ; they were not vouchers in my case. Those voucher 
accounts were uot considered vouchers; they were accounts that item- 
ized the amount of whisky gauged each day, and the per cent, if gauged 
at 2i, the amount of traveling done, and at the distilleries ; the ac- 
count was itemized like that ; first the amount gauged, then the per 
cent, it cost to gauge it, the distance traveled, and the expenses in- 
curred in traveling, were in the voucher. 

Q. They were not vouchers 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you indicted before Mr. Clarke went out, or after?— A. 
Eight at the time. 

Q. That was the fall of 1871 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q, Did you know when Dr. Mott was turned out himself? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. When was that ?— A. It wa« in 1871 or 1875. 

Q. It was in 1875, — A. I think probably it was. 

Q. Was this conversation betbre or after Dr. Mott was turned out of 
the office ? — A. I (;ould not state exactly whether it was before or after ; 
it has been some time ; I could not be positive. 

Q. You stated that he said he had first intended to have Dr. ]Mott 
turned out, but after investigating it he found it was all bosh ? — A. On 
those accounts he intimated that he had Dr. Mott. He came to me 
privately and asked me if I had signed any ; I told him I had not signed 
any. I never had signed any pay as deputy collector, except one month 
that I worked. He mentioned several that had signed, and he said 
lie expected to prosecute them. He talked to me, and to some of us 
officers, and then afterwards he told me that those accounts were all 
bosh that were put in. 

Q. He told you, as I understand, that he thought at first he intended 
to have Dr. Mott turned out of office ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But after he investigated it he found they were all bosh? — A. He 
said they never paid any money on them. 

Q. Do you recollect whether Dr. Mott had been turned out Ijefore or 
at the time of this conversation? — A. I cannot; I cannot state posi- 
tively, because Dr. Mott was out such a short time. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. I understand you to have had two conversations with Mr.'Craue? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At which conversations he said he had the figures on Dr. Mott, 
and was going to try and have him turned out ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. That is uot the way ; but he said at first that he intende<l to have 
him turne<l out, but after he investigated it he found it was all bosh. — 
A. Of course it was two different times. That was the way I meant. 
It would have been impossible for him to have investigated it while he 
was talking to me. 

By Mr. Pool: 
Q. There were then two conversations you state now ? — A. Yes, sir. 



356 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. After the first coiiversatioii lie said lie had those things against 
Dr. Mott"?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Bat afterwards, in the second conversation yon had with him, he 
said that upon lurtlier investigation he found it was all bosh 1 — A. Yes,, 
sir. 

Q. And that included the Kestler vouchers with others'? — A. It in- 
cluded that class of vouchers. 

Q. Dr. Mott w^as restored "? — A. Yes, sir. 

J. J. Mott was sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Pool : '^ 

Question. Where do you reside! — Answer. States ville, jSTorth Caro- 
lina. 

Q. You were the collector of revenue in the sixth district of North 
Carolina? — A. I was. 

Q. When did you go into the sixth district? — A. In the spring of '72. 

Q. Then yon continued to be collector until within the last two 
months'? — A. Yes, sir. • 

Q. Had you any acquaintance with the internal revenue service 
previous to the time you were appointed? — A. No, sir; 1 knew nothing 
of it whatever. 

Q. You were entirely unacquainted with it? — A. Yes sir. 

Q. Was there a supervisor of internal revenue at that time? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Perry ? — A. Mr. Perry, who lived at Raleigh, and had his head- 
quarters at Kaleigh. 

Q. Did he recommend Mr. Clarke as an experienced officer to set your 
office going, and instruct you? — A. He sent Clarke there. 

Q. Did iie leconimend him to you? — A. Yes, sir; as a man who had 
some exiierience in revenue matters under Collector Young. 

Q. Did he recommend him as a person to be relied upon in the mak- 
ing out of pa])ers and putting matters under way? — A. Yes, sir; he 
recommended him in every sense, except that he was a little inclined to 
drink. 

Q. You then a])pointed him your clerk? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were then in the midst of the political campaign? — A. The 
camjiaign commenced soon afterwards. That was in the spring of 1872. 
The campaign commenced soon after that, and was actively carried on 
in North Carolina during that year. I took part in it and left the affairs 
of the office prin 3ipally in the hands of Mr. Clarke. 

Q. Did he prepare the papers that were necessary for the routine 
work of the office? — A. He did all the routine of the office. I only 
supervised the appointment of officers and assigned them to their duty; 
told them w^hat to do, generally kept the run of that. 

Q. All along through that year all the formal papers and reports were 
made out by him? — A. There are a great many reports. Clarke was 
the only clerk I had, and he made out all the accounts and reports, and 
everything of that sort that was necessary to keep up with the require- 
ments of the office here at Washington. 

Q. Did you sign them without investigation?- — A. Usually when I 
signed them at all it was without investigation. Sometimes they were 
signed in blank. Tliat has been a loug time ago, and I do not remem- 
ber exactly whether I ever signed a portion of them or not. I remem- 
that the work was done by Clarke, and he made all the papers out. I 
authorized him to sign my name to them whenever necessary to be done 
for the purpose of keeping up his accounts here. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 357 

Q. Practiciillv for a time you left every tiling- in his hands, and fol- 
lowed his directions, in all these tbrnial matters — up to a c<'rtain time? 
— A. He did all that work; 1 authorized Mr. Clarke to do all that work. 

Q. You had a reliance u])on him, based upou the recommendation of 
the supervisior? — A. Yes, sir; and also with the understanding- that it 
is customary for clerks to sign other names iu our business. 

Q. You understood that that was a general custom in the service? — 
A. Yes, sir. That custom prevails iu a good many oflices in the country 
to this day. It is absolutely necessary for collectors, to delegate those 
powers to some one iu a large ofiice. The collector cannot possibly do 
it, unless his whole time is employed there. 

Q. These Kestler vouchers were iu the character of the business that 
was left to Mr. Clarke iu that way? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Wheu you hrst he«rd of this Kestler mistake, did you take imme- 
diate steps to correct it? — A. I heard of the Kestler matter first in the 
report of Mr. Crane, 1 thiidv — this report that 1 have seen here siuce I 
came, and to which I rei)lied at the time. I had no knowledge of it be- 
fore that. I eijiployed these nu^u from time to time, and changed them. 
There were a few of them, you know, who took places, and then we 
changed, and put them in the other places. Kestler was recommended 
to me, or I was requested by sonie political friends in Salisbury to give 
Mr. Kestler work. He came up there in the fall of 1872, and remained, 
I think, about ten days. 1 found he was not the nmn who would suit 
the business — that he was not only feeble, but had but one arm — for the 
active work that would be required of a de])uty iu those days. It was 
necessary that he should be a vigorous man. There was a good deal of 
opposition to the law, and it was much easier for a strong robust man 
to execute it than a weak one. For some reason or another, he re- 
turned home. I was busy about the time; I only remember that I de- 
cided not to keep him, and put some one else to do the work, and it went 
on in that way. The otlier man did the work in the regular way. 

Q. Who was the other man; Mr. Walker?— A. Yes, sir; he acted as 
dejmty during- that period. My recollection is, in some instances he 
acted as deputy i)revious to that. He was actively at work at the time, 
engaged in traveling about the country, from place to place, as a ganger, 
and in doing the work. He being an efiBcient man in that way. he was- 
required to police around for the wagons that were conveying illicit 
spirits and tobacco through that country at that time. A great deal of 
it was going on through that section, and Walker was in that neighbor- 
hood. Around Statesville there was a good deal of blockaded whisky 
being hauled into town in wagons', and he had work as a deputy in that 
way. He could go to a distillery eight, ten, or fifteen miles away, gauge 
a barrel of whisky at that place, and then do this other work on his 
travels. 

Q. I see his i)ay commenced the 21st of October, 1872, and ran to the 
20th of May, 1873. Was he really engaged in the service during that 
time as a deputy? — A. Oh, yes; he Avas employed in that way; all the 
time working. The records of the office show he was a deputy all the 
time. 

Q. And you found vouchers sent in in the name of Kestler for that 
tiiue? — A. That was after Mr. Crane made his report. 

Q. That was the first time you knew it, and up to the 30th of June, 
1873, I think, the voucher ran ; Mr. Walker was employed u]) to May 20, 
1873; after that I see, INIcIntosh was put in his place ? — A. I do not know 
whether it ran that way in the account or not. 



3.58 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Yes, sir; Mr. Mcintosh and Mr. Bryau; it was in evidence, in Mr. 
Walker's testimony. — A. I think I remember that. 

Q. Mr. Mclntoslr commenced May 20 ; after that time you were enti- 
tled to four deputies instead of three. All these gentlemen performed 
the service ? — A. Yes, sir ; they were deputies. 

Q. But still the accounts w^ent in in the name of Kestler ? — A. So I 
found afterwards. 

Q. Did you pay your deputies before all the vouchers were sent in ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; that was necessarily so. In that country a great many of 
the deputies had no monej^, and we were obliged to advance it from time 
to time to them. 

Q. Did you pay Mr. Kestler? — A. Yes, sir; Mr. Kestler was paid. 

Q. Before the voucher was sent in ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Sixty-five dollars? — A. I think it was before any voucher was 
sent in for him that he was paid. 

Q. He stated that it was $65 ? — A. I do not know whether the last 
man was paid before the voucher went in or not; of course the first was. 
He was only there a few days, I think, and I gave him so^ne of it, I thiuk,. 
when he left. 

Q. Do you recollect ever signing the original accounts? — A. The ab- 
stracts ? 

Q. Some abstracts that were shown here. — A. Are you speaking 
about the quarterly accounts? 

Q. Yes. — A. The original voucher, shown there, I do not remember- 
ever having seen, and I did not sign the account. 

Q. You mean they were not in your handwriting? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who did sign 'them ?— A. Mr. Clarke. 

Q. He put your name on them ? — A. Yes, sir. This is his handwrit- 
ing. 

Q. Has that whole matter undergone a full investigation by the bu- 
reau? — A. Yes, sir. That matter was investigated here. A report Avas- 
made against me by Mr. Crane, the revenue agent, and the matter was 
investigated. I will make a statement about that matter to you. When 
I went in as collector, a short time after I went in a man by the name 
of Jordan, a tobacco man ufaQturer in Davie County, had his tobacco 
seized by an oflScer in South Carolina. North Carolina and South Caro- 
lina were both under the control of Supervisor Perry. Jordan was in 
my district, and came to me, and made representations with regard to- 
the seizure of the tobacco by this South Carolina man, and 1 thought 
injustice had been done him, and I attempted to have the tobacco re- 
stored to him. I was opposed in that matter by the supervisor. I met 
him in Ealeigh some time after that, and had some talk about it, and 
some words, and he made some remarks to me that I did not think, 
though I was a subordinate, that I ought to take from him without 
expressing my indignation about it, and I did express myself indignantly 
to him. Shortly after that time Mr. Crane came into my district, and 
commenced searching around. I could hear of him going about inquir- 
ing from everybody if they knew anything about my matters, or of any- 
thing connected with me in the district. That went on for some time, and 
I became satisfied he was trying to circumvent me, and have me removed,, 
and finally I heard that he had some matters which he concluded would 
be sufficient for his purpose. I did not know what they w^ere ceraintly 
until I saw tlie report. I came on to Washington after I heard I was 
removed, and inquired about the matter. I had heard in the mean time 
what had taken place, and the things that Avere a cause of complaint. 
As I understood it then it was an increased amount of vouchers in the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOETll CAROLINA. 359 

case of Ramsaj" that had been pnt iu there for a certain amount, and 
that they were in excess of tlie amount that liad been paid Mr. Ramsay. 
I called the attention of the clerk to the matter. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. The clerk here at Washinj^ton? — A. Yes, sir; and told him they 
Avere mistaken about it, and if they would go over to the proper oltice, 
where the a('(;(>unt was adjusted, they would tind that the.v had made a 
mistake ; and I supi)osed they did so. I went in the next d^y and found 
them somewhat excited over the matter, and I sent in and inquired as 
to whetheri^he thinj^' had been looked into or not, and got very little 
satisfaction. I then went to Judge Settle, Mr. Smith, and other friends 
of mine and asked them to go to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue 
and request that 1 be furnished with a statement of the charges or the 
cause of my removal. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Who was the Commissioner then ? — A. Mr. Douglass. They went 
in, and brought me a message back that Mr. Douglass said he had no 
charges against me, or my integrity, but that I was dabbling iu railroad 
matters and farms, and doing other things down there in JSTorth Carolina, 
and not giving the business my personal attention, and he was going 
to have some one there who would give the office his iiersonal attention. 
I then requested these gentlemen to go to the President and lay the 
matter before him, and tell him what I had understood were the causes 
of their action in the first place, and explain it to him. I explained it 
all to them. They did so. I do not know what inquiry the President 
made into the matter, but I know that he insisted that it was an act 
of injustice, and that I be restored, and that was done. Mr. Rptmsay, the 
gentleman who was put into my place, was, 1 think, in but three weeks. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. What Ramsay was that? — A. A gentleman of character down 
there in that country — one of our leading men. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Mr. Ramsay was put out and you put back? — A. Yes, sir; I 
asked the Commissioner, Mr. Douglass, this morning when I met him 
in the Ebbitt House, why he objected to my restoration, and he said 
his recollection was that it was because I did not give i^ersonal attention 
to the business. 

By Senator McDill : 

Q. Was Mr. Ramsay confirmed? — A. Yes, sir; confirmed and the 
office transferred, but the President looked upon it as such an act of 
injustice that I was placed back there and got possession of the office in 
three weeks ; the only case of the kind in the history of the revenue 
service. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q, Several witnesses have stated here that you drew nothing on the 
Kestler vouchers; that is, that they were disallowed, and I believe it so 
appears upon the record ; will you state, yourself, whether you were ever 
paid on those Kestler vouchers ? — A. The accounts were put in in advance ; 
I mean the money is paid first on an allowance to the collector, and the 
account was adjusted afterwards. These adjustments were made in 
accordance as I understand with an amended account which they re 
quired me to majie after my attention to the matter had been called in 
the accounting office. 



360 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. You were required by the accounting officers, after it had got into 
their hands, to put in amended vouchers for the true persons who had I 
rendered the service ? — A. I was called upon for an amended account * 
or statement, and was required to put in vouchers for the true amounts. 

Q. And in the name of the true persons who did render the service ? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Walker and others'? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you put them in ? — A. Yes, sir ; I jjut them in. 

Q. And your account was based upon those vouchers, and not upon 
the Kestler vouchers'? — A. I suppose so; that was the last of it. 

Q. Wasthereany more trouble after that ■? — A. No, sir; tht)se accounts 
went in about the time of that amended abstract there, in 1874. They 
went in at that time just as fast as I could get them. I was called upon 
10 get them, but of course it took some time to get the amended accounts 
from these men, and Mr. Walker was in the West — in Illinois, I do not 
lemember w hat part. 

Q. He had gone away in the mean time? — A. Yes, sir; he had gone 
away some time previous to that. 

Q. Have you anything else to say on that Kestler matter"? — A. It 
does not occur to me to say anything else about it now. 

Q. I will call your attention to the matter of assessments. 

By Senator Mitchell: 

Q. Have you seen these abstracts that were presented at the office — 
the ones you have alluded to in your testimony? — A. The original 
vouchers "? 

Q. Those that have been i)roduced. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the testimony you have given relates to them. You have 
examined then the writing where your name appears, I understood you 
to say'? — A. It is not my handwriting on those originals. 

Q. In whose handwriting is if? — A. All the handwriting of Mr. 
Clarke, according to my knowledge of his handwriting. 

Q. You speak now of the original abstracts ■? — A. The original ab- 
stracts. 

Q. But the amended ones are genuine'? — A. Yes, sir; they are. I 
was required to make an amended account. I made them out myself, 
and signed those and sent them off. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Will you make any explanation in regard to this assessment for 
office expenses that we have been talking about*? — A. The office assess- 
ment was made alter our having had to pay a good deal personally from 
time to time in one way and another for printing, to a messenger in the 
office, and for check books. I had furnislied the check book for a long 
time, but, as the business increased, it became more expensive, and 
finally, along about the time of the assessment, or the year previously, 
1 had to pay $25 apiece for the check books ; the bank would not fur- 
nish them, and we talked about it at the office ; the office men had been 
required to pay on these other matters, the messenger and other expenses 
that had not been allowed by the government. This messenger was 
kept there for the benefit of the storekeepers. He kei)t their blanks, 
and had charge of their reports as they came into the office, and dis- 
tributed them about to the proper desks, and looked really after the 
business of the storekeepers. Those expenses wei>t on until there was 
some dissatisfaction with them, and we agreed — T agreed to send out 
that circular, which has apiwared here in the evidence, assessing each 
officer a dollar a month for those expenses. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 361 

Q. Your object was to e<inalize it upon other ofificers besides those 
men around your office ? — A. Yes, sir. That request in the circuhir was 
complied with by some of the officers, and a fund gradually accumulated 
there. It amounted, as Mr. Eaum said yesterday, to about $U)(). That 
was about the amount collected from the first to the last. during that 
period. A great many of the officers did not pay anything, but we did 
not say anything more to them about it, because we had the necessary 
amount for that purpose. And no one was ever called on again. These 
expenses were paid out of this fund from time to time. At the end of 
the fiscal year, and when complaint was nnide about the matter, the 
Commissioner directed that this messenger be paid by the government. 

Q, Before that time the government made you no allowance for these 
expenses? — A. No, sir; we had no call then for any further assess- 
ments. These little expenses, of printing and so on, and the little ma- 
chine that we had to buy, a lithographing machine, from which we 
used to issue circular letters to the officers, as we could n't write to all 
of them, and some money was spent for that purpose. The office ex- 
penses ran along from time to time, except the messenger, and we used, 
I believe, almost all of the fund to pay up some of those expenses of 
the office. 

Q. AVas the $400 honestly paid for the purposes for which it was re- 
ceived i — A. Y'^es, sir. 

Q. I want to ask you whether you ever adopted any active measures 
to force your deputies to pay this office assessment *? — A. No, sir; all I 
ever said was in that cii'cular letter; I never did call upon them or say 
another word. Some money was sent in for the purpose for which the 
assessments were made. The matter stopped right there and never 
anything more was said about it. I thought, at the time, that my chief 
deputy kept that account, and so told Mr. Brooks when he called my 
attention to it at (xreensboro. I was going somewhere just then; he 
wanted me to return to the office; I told him no, that he could go and see 
Mr. Coite, and he woidd find it was all right ; I explained to him what it 
was about, and went on and did not return to the office with him. He 
went himself, and found the account was in the hands of Mr. Dwire, and 
the account not made up. He seemed to have some suspicion, as these 
revenue agents usually (h), that because the account was not ready there 
was something wrong about it, regarding those memoranda which were 
dropped into the envelope from time to time. He went up to Asheville 
and said he would call again; when he called again I was still absent 
from the office, and he reported that the account was not kept in a 
manner satisfactory to him; and, in pursuance of his report, the Com- 
missioner wrote out to these men asking them what they had paid; 
and these answers are here on file. 1 would like for them to go into 
this evidence; I thiidv they are important, as there has been a good deal 
said about it, and it will appear from them just how it is. 

Mr. Pool. I shall olier them all, together with the letters in response 
to the Commissioner in regard to your indebtedness to the officers. 

The Witness. They all ought to go in. There was no secrecy about 
the matter ; it was patent everywhere; the letter went out to everybody, 
Democrats, Republicans, and all who were in office. 

Q. Make any explanation you choose about the political assessments 
that have been mentioned here so much. — A. The political assessments 
were made in 1880 in that district in a way that had never been made 
before in the State. Heretofore, in North Carolina, the Republicans 
carried the State up to 1870, wdien we lost it. Up to that time and dur- 
ing the year 187G money had been furnished to the State of North Caro- 



362 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

lina by the national and Congressional executive committees to defray 
the expenses of campaigns in the State, and there was no regular sys- 
tem of assessments in the State. The most of the assessments in the 
State up to that time came from these committees here, the national 
committee and the Congressional committee. In the spring of 1880 a 
good many of my friends in ISTorth Carolina wrote to me and talked to 
me about it, and as a result of that talk and conference, I consented to 
act as chairman of the executive committee of the State, and as things 
went along I found out that we would not get any money from the na- 
tional Republican committee or the Congressional committee; that they 
looked upon it as a matter of impossibility to carry North Carolina, and 
they did not like to spend any money there. That was the feeling, as 
I understood it here, from the chairman of the executive committee at 
the time, Mr. Keogh. 

Q. You m^an Mr. Keogh was clerk of the national committee? — A. 
He was chairman of the executive committee of our State at that time. 
Be was so well satisfied that we were not going to get any money, that 
he would not agree to act any longer as chairman of the executive com- 
mittee. Well, in talking with our people through that district, I men- 
tioned the matter from time to time as 1 would see friends about through 
the district. I told them that if it was desired that I should act as 
chairman of the executive committee, I could not consent unless I had 
funds, aud would not be placed there as a mere figurehead without any 
help. I found out that the general inclination of the ofhcers in that 
district was to make a fight for the State. I had confidence that there 
could be such a fight made in the State as would put us in a position 
to get help and assistance and have the confidence of the party in the 
North in future contests. I felt that that could be done, and, gener- 
ally, we agreed upon it. This assistance was generally acceded to and 
agreed upon as the summer went on, and the meeting of the executive 
committee was held. I think it is right that 1 should make this expla- 
nation and go on and show how this matter came about. 

Q. Certainly. — A. The meeting of the executive committee was held. 
I found that Mr. Keogh was very much opposed to my acting as chair- 
man of the committee when we got to Raleigh, and I decided not to 
do so, as he was so much oi)posed to it. After a conference with Mr. 
Keogh, I told him that as it was objectionable to him I would not act, 
but would like to have his help, and did not care anything about the 
place ; that it was being forced upon me by some of our political Iriends ; 
that I was willing to act if there was no objection. As the result of 
that talk with Mr. Keogh I decided not to act as chairman of the com- 
mittee, and Mr. Cooper was made chairman of it. After that arrange- 
ment a campaign committee was formed in the State by this executive 
committee, and I was made chairman of the campaign executive com- 
mittee. The canvass went on, with Mr. Cooper's headquarters at Ra- 
leigh. I acted as chairman of the committee and ran the campaign — 
I mean as chairman of the campaign committee. I looked after it in 
the western counties. The State was divided between us, and these 
assessments were made in accordance with that plan. 

Q. Do you recollect what was raised by that assessment in your dis 
trict"? — A. I do not recollect precisely the amount; some of it was sent 
directly to the committee at Raleigh, and some of it was collected by me 
and sent to the committee. I think it was somewhere in the neighbor- 
hood of about $14,000. 

Q. Was it applied in that way? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For campaign purposes ? — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTEICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 363 

Q. Honestly ajtplied ? — A. Yes, sir. 

i}. Did von undertake to force vonr subordinates to pay it '? — A. Xot 
at all. 

Q. Did you write a circular letter to your subordinates about it ? — 
A. 1 wrote 9 letter to the snl)()rdinates, and expressed myself to every 
oneoftbeni saying:'. I think — that is my recollection of it — that they 
Avere not required to i>ay ; that the committee did not want it unless it 
was i)aid willini>ly. I wanted them to understand that, and so expressed 
it in the letter, and that if they did not accede to it that in no sense 
would their standing be interfered with by their refusal, either at my 
oftice or at the department. 

Q. So you left it entirely oi)tional with them to pay it or not ? — A. 
Yes, sir. I want to state further in connection with chese assessuuMits 
in this State and the amount that was raised, that the amount that had 
been expended in Xorth Carolina generally to make a campaign there, 
under the disadvantages the Eepublicans have to contend witli in that 
State — that the amount necessary for those purjioses was about >=2."),()00. 
It takes about that to make an ordinary campaign, in the way that it 
had been conducted in that State ; and in making these assessments I 
was governed by the amount that I thought necessary to make that 
campaign. 

Q. Passing from that subject, I will call your attention to these re- 
ports about storekeepers dividing their pay with distillery. Did you 
make etl'orts to find out any case of that kind ? — A. Oh, yes ; it was a 
matter of solicitude to me there on account of the reports, rumors, and 
slanders which crop])ed up from time to time with regard to it, and on 
that account I tried to conduct matters so as to give no ground for snch 
rumors and comi»laints. I had freijuent talks with the Commissioner of 
Internal Eevenue about it, and tried to arrange matters in the district 
so as to avoid any suspicion on the part of the public, or of any one, in 
regard to the matter. 

Q, Did you try to find out a case? — A. Yes, we tried to find it out 
frequently. 

Q. Was it your purj^ose to prosecute the matter if you found out a 
case? — A. Oh, yes, sir; we would have prosecuted it if we had known 
it. I never found any one. I ne^er could get any evidence of it that 
could be depended upon. There were some causes that probably gave 
rise to those suspicions at the start. For instance, these distillers would 
come and ask for storekeepers, and woukl not want to run without cer- 
tain storekeepers ; at least object to some that were sent to them. We 
attributed it to that more than anything else. The disposition on the 
part of the distiller to have some one on his premises who would look 
after his aftairs there, in that country, and with whom he was acquainted ; 
a triend whom he thought woukl be disposed to see and feel that his 
business was being of value to him. 

Q. Do these storekeepers help the distillers, who are generally igno- 
rant men, to make x\]) their returns and things of that sort? — A. Yes, 
sir; not only that, but watch the hands about the distillery, aud give 
orders probably about what should be done, and looked after the work, 
that it was done effectively. Most of the distillers are farmers, aud are 
not usually at the distilleries. 

Q. It is the business of a storekeeper to be there all the time? — A. 
Yes, sir; a storekeeper has to be there all the time in their business. 
These farmers who are distillers like to ha\'e these storekeepers take 
an interest in their matters, aud see that the work went on right, and 
look after their stock about the distillery; that it is attended to by the 



364 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

hands properly; and that the distillery was in every way operated with 
advantage to the distiller. Every distiller naturally was inclined to 
have some man with whom he was acquainted, and who he knew was 
not lazy. I attribute the desire of the distillers to have certain store- 
keepers more to that than to aj\j other cause. I kuow that many store- 
kee])ers were accused of dividing their pay who I am satisfied did not 
do it. Whenever a storekeeper was ai)j)ointed in the district I made it 
a point to allude to that matter, and warued him against putting him- 
self into the hands of a distiller by telling him it was dangerous to allow 
himself to get into the hands of anybody iu regard to such things; and 
more than that, I told him that the distillers in that country would run 
their distilleries iu any evenj:,; that if certain men had corn to be dis- 
tilled it would be done, and the storekeepers did not need to divide 
their pay ; whether they did or not the distillery would go on . It is an old 
distilling section. It has been a moneyed interest in that country for gen- 
erations. The whisky would be made in any event. This is my opinion 
about it. Unless there was some regular system of division running all 
through, I do not think that there could have been any great amount 
of it. A great many of the ofi&cers I know did not do it, for the reason 
that they knew they woukl get work any way. Many of the men there 
appointed did not have any other business. When a man has taken one 
of these positions it was generally for a lifetime. When he went into 
the revenue service at all there was very little prospect of employment 
in any other business afterwards — he found it difficult to get employment. 

Q. Your object was to convince the storekeeper and ganger that he 
would have no interest in the world in making a division with the dis- 
tdler, and would not suffer if he refused to comply with any demand the 
distiller made upon him to divide his pay? — A. Yes, sir; I tried to im- 
press that upon them, and I have heard of rumors against them, but I 
am satisfied many did not do it, for the very reason I mention ; that they 
had been in the business a long time, and good officers were popular, and 
knew they could get work if there was any work to do ; consequently 
there was no call for dividing their pay, and if the system had gone to 
any extent at all, it would necessarily have been a general one. 

Q. You know of no instance X)Ositively where you could prove that it 
ha<l occurred? — A. No, sir; I know of none. 

Q. You are sure that that report was false in regard to a great num- 
ber of officers, and do you believe it to be true with regard to any of 
them? — A. I do not know; I had some suspicion of some of them, but 
never could get any evidence, and none ever were removed on that 
account. 

The committee adjourned until 10 a. m. July 15. 



Washington, D. C, Saturday, July 15, 1882. 

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m. J. J. Mott's examination re- 
sumed. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Question. Something has been stated in regard to the treatment of 
the officers in the Federal courts, when there were prosecutions for vio- 
lations of the law, and to an order that you issued in consequence, and 
the action of the Commissiduer upon it; please state what that was. — 
Answer. At the court, I think it was last October, I had understood 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 365 

that certain lawyers had denounced some of the officers who were there 
as witnesses, in very severe terms, and in a way that I thought was un- 
warranted, in fact, outrageous. I thought about it, and concluded that 
if they were to be treated in that way, I would try to avoid their appear- 
ing in that court. It had a bad etfect, and was calculated to do in- 
jury to the service. It Avas an insult to the officers, not oidy to one, but 
to all of them, so I concluded that 1 would issue an order instructing- 
them not to swear out any more warrants. At the same time that I did 
this, I instructed them to go on with their work as deputies in the regu- 
lar way, to prevent illicit distilling, and seize anything in the way of 
illicit whisky or tobacco that they might run across, knowing that legal 
processes, indictments, and so on, could come at some future time. I 
forget the time that the statute allows, but it is several years, within 
which persons who violate the law can be indicted. I came on to Wash- 
ington shortly after that, and had a talk with the Commissioner of In- 
ternal Keveuue about the matter; and after that received a letter from 
him stating that he did not think it was proper, and so on, to have such 
an order enforced, and asked that it might be revoked. He went on to 
state in the letter, that if I had any cases where my officers would have 
to ap])ear in that court, that he would direct the district attorney to 
transfer them to the circuit court. There was a good deal of comment 
about the town and among those around the court, over the matter. It 
was looked upon as high handed, and I do not think the judge ought to 
have allowed it. I revoked the order, and the business went on as be- 
fore. 

Q. Your order was not to the extent of forbidding your officers to 
break up traffic in tobacco or whisky that were not properly paid for? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. It was simplj^ not to swear out warrants for the offenses — not to 
commence prosecutions? — A. Yes, sir; not to commence prosecutions 
which would bring them into court and put them into the hands of these 
men who were traducing and slandering them. 

Q. Because that could have been done at any future time within the 
three years allowed by the statute ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is there anything further you want to state on that subject ? — A. 
I do not think of anything. 

Q. State whatever you have to say in regard to that matter of Mr. 
llamsey about which he has testified, and which has been made a great 
point of in this investigation. — A. Kamsey testified that I made a con- 
tract with him with regard to his pay or employment as a deputy ; that 
I had a private arrangement with him with regard to it. That was not 
so. I had no private arrangement with Eamsey. He was appointed to 
do a certain duty about through the district, collecting money in the 
greater ])ortion of it; and besides that, the little stills were increasing, 
and he drew the plans of those distilleries, and was allowed to receive 
])ay from the distillers for those plans in addition to the amount that 
the government allowed him as deputy. I was receiving about in the 
neighborhood of $3,000 a year salary myself, and I would hardly luake 
any contract with a deputy to pay him over and above any amount that 
the government would allow. We could have got plenty of men all 
through the country to have taken Ramsey's position at the salary that 
he was paid by the government. 

Q. His allowance from June 30, 1872, up to May 20, 1873, was $100 a 
month from the government"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And from May 20, 1873, to June 30, 1873, at $125 a month ?— A. I 
think so. 



366 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. He claims that you ought to have paid him $150 during the whole 
time "I — A. I do not remember what he claims in his answer to my com- 
plaint in the suit that we have. I do not remember what amount it is, 
but, as I remember, he claimed for a portion of the time $50 a month, 
or that I agreed to pay him fifty per cent., as he states, of his salary. 

Q. This would increase it by fifty per cent. ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You made no such agreement Avith him? — A. No ; I made no such 
agreement with him. I found out that Eamsey was behind on his list. 

Q. What do you mean by that? — A. That he had collected more than 
his salary amounted to, and he was dismissed. 

Q. You mean, he had collected, and not paid over, more than his 
salary amounted to — retaining more than his salary amounted to ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. He was tlismissed, and then what! — A. I sent a gentleman, Mr. 
Horah, to make a settlement with him, and Mr. Horah drew up a settle- 
ment of account according to the data I had furnished him, and Mr. 
Eamsey acknowledged to Horah — he told me on his return — the indebt- 
edness, and that he would pay it as soon as he got some moiety dues that 
were owed to him at the department. 

Q. That is what Mr. Horah told you? — A. He did. I waited on him 
for several months. I do not remember how long, and sued him, and 
he then brought in this action on the vouchers, as I understood, as a 
counter-claim. I think that was all an afterthought on his part, after 
consultation with his counsel. 

Q. You sent in his vouchers for a hundred and fifty dollars a month ? — 
A. The original vouchers, yes, sir; they were sent in for that. 

Q. By Mr. Clarke ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the government refused to allow any more than the regular 
allowance made on the 30th of June preceding, and he brought in as an 
offset in the suit, the balance between what the government allowed, 
and what he claimed you agreed to pay him "? — A. That is what I under- 
stood at the time. 

Q. And that is the matter between you ? — A. Yes, sir; and afterwards 
in evidence he makes this statement that he made here, that I was to 
give him 50 per cent, of the amount he received as salary. 

Q. That is, you were to give him a $150 a mouth instead of a $100 a 
month?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you nothing further to state on that subject? I will be glad 
if you will explain some of the troubles in your way of executing the 
law and administering the collection of internal revenue in that district, 
resulting from political action — the action of the opposite party ? — A. 
The purpose of the Democratic party, as I understood it and felt it, was 
to make capital by traduction of the revenue laws and olficers. This 
was done by the public speakers and newspapers throughout the State. 
That s.\ stem of abuse and traduction grew, and was taken up from the 
speakers and the press by the populace. 

Q. You say the populace took it up from the newspapers and speak- 
ers? — A. Yes, sir; and I think that the great mass of rumors, and 
slanders, and all that, has grown out of that. It had become a sort of 
licensed system of abuse in the community and country around there. 

Q. Was that an obstruction to the proper performance of duty by 
your subordinates? — A. Oh, yes, sir; it subjected the officers to insult 
and suspicion, and incensed those who were engaged in illicit distilling, 
and encouraged them to stand out against the law, and to go on in the 
face of the law. 

Q Give them an impression that the community was at their back ? — 



THE .SIXTH DISTRICT OF \ORTH CAROLINA. 367 

A. Yes, sir; the illicit distillers felt that the}' had the sympathy of the 
coiniiiunity as a g^eneral thing. 

Q. Did you adopt the system of appointing- some Democrats to office 
about in tliat district ? — A.' Yes, sir ; that system of abuse went on there, 
and it became so difficult tlwit I conceived the idea of shifting the re- 
sponsibility, or the apparent resi)onsibility, of the execution of the law, 
and went to work and appointed some Democrats about through the 
district, wherever I could find a man of character whom I had reason 
to believe would take a position, I gave it out that I would pursue 
that course, and as a consequence I heard from tirst one then anoiher 
through the district asking for places. 

Q. Y^ou mean Democrats'? — A. Yes, sir; there was a great number 
of them applied, and 1 would select such of them as I thought would 
give force and character to the service. . I a})pointed a good many. 

Q. Did that seem to i>roduce any good effect? — A.' Yes, sir ; it had an 
immediate effect upon the country. A' good many people had been led 
to believe that nobody bat a Kepublicau would be allowed to hold places 
of that sort, and only Republicans would be used to execute the laws. 
I felt there was some force in this talk of the politicians, that it ought 
not to be a party matter, and that laws of that kind ought to be enforced 
by the members of both parties. There was a feeling of that sort among 
the ordinary class of good people in the Democratic party, and I felt 
there was some force in that kind of argument, and that was ihe reason 
why I was driven to that course, and pursued it. 

Q. It had a good effect'? — A. Yes, sir; it relieved that feeling among 
the ordinary class of people I speak of, and in that way had a good effect. 

Q. Do you recollect that one of the charges made by the newspapers 
and stump speakers was that poor men could not put up stills, because 
it required too large a bond — the required capacity being so high. Was 
that one of the charges against the revenue system? — A. Y^es, sir; that 
was one of the charges. 

Q. Well, what was done ? — A. I had some consultation with the Com- 
missioner of Internal Revenue, and it was agreed that the capacity of 
stills should be lowered. 

Q. W hat was the required capacity before this — the minimum capacity, 
I mean '? — A. Six bushels, I think. 

Q. Then it was reduced to three bushels as the nnnimum ? — A. About 
three and a half; but a sufficient amount to pay the expenses of the dis- 
tillery, so that the government might not lose anything by its lieing 
operated. 

Q. Did that result in a great increase of legal distilleries, and in a 
decrease of illegal distilleries '? — A. Yes ; the illegal distillers went to 
work and put up legal distilleries. 

Q. Is it not a matter of fact that those who were running legal dis- 
tilleries are opposed to the running of illicit distilleries around there? — 
A. Yes, sir ; it interferes with their business by putting up the price of 
grain, and then it gives the illicit distiller the advantage in not paying- 
taxes. 

Q. So that the distiller is a sort of police in the neighborhood against 
illegal ones ? — A. Y"es ; it is a protection against illegal ones. 

Q. And after the reiluction of this capacity the number of small legal 
distilleries increased, and you found the illegal distilleries decreased? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has that system continued till now ? — A, Y^es, sir; it has obtained 
a great deal there, and worked along until the illicit distilleries are pretty 
well gone out. 



368 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE Iin 

Q. Does there seem to be a better feeling in the community, or nof? — 
A. Oh, yes, sir; very great, from what there was several years ago. 
The people have become more reconciled to the law, and many good 
people have engaged in distilling under the law. They have become 
familiarized with the operations of the revenue system ; and through 
association with the officers of the government and their friends, have 
come to understand it better, and it has had a good effect. 

Q. But it increased the expenses of the district, did it not? — A. Yes; 
every additional officer employed makes more expense. 

Q, The percentage has been greatly increased — the percentage of col- 
lections — has it not? — A. It was increased in proportion; and though 
increased in proportion, the revenue has also increased for the govern- 
ment, p 

Q. You mean the Treasury got more money by that system than it did 
by the former one? — A. Yes, sir; while it saved prosecutions in the 
courts and expenses in that way. 

Q. A good deal has been said here about the division of distilleries — 
a distillery of six-bushel capacity into two, three and a half -bushels; 
that some parties took advantage of this reduction to divide up the dis- 
tilleries which they were running before? — A. Yes; that is what is 
termed by politcians the " multiplication of stills." 

Q. In how many instances did that occur in the sixth district ? — A. I 
do not think there were very many. We investigated the matter, 
looked into it, and found that the distillers gave as an excuse that they 
could not operate the stills the year around except with water of a certain 
temperature, and that they had to put their distilleries close up to the 
heads of streams with a view to continuing the business through the hot 
summer months. I know that was the case with " Daniels's" distilleries. 
There was a complaint at the office and at the department over the num- 
ber of stills that Daniels had. 

Q. You mean that in the summer time the lack of water made it de- 
sirable to a distiller to have two stills, one higher up and one lower down 
a stream, so that he could use the water twice? — ^A. He could use 
the water twice in' some respects. I am not very familiar with the 
mode of distilling, but I think a portion of the water that is used has 
to be of a certain temperature to make a good "turnout" of spirits, 
as they call it; and that they can get that temperature the year around 
in sufficient quantity only by having the stills near the head of the 
streams — near the fonntain. That was one of the causes, and the prin- 
cipal cause in the Daniels case, because it was the inirpose of the 
department to interfere with him, and we found out we could not do it 
under his explanation. The agents went out there and looked into it, 
examined it, and that was the result. Another case was where men 
running distilleries, being poor, could not give warehousing bonds. 
They could get more good security on a small amount of stock than 
they could get on the consolidated amount of two distilleries. 

Q. That is, they could give two small bonds easier than one large 
one? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Those bonds had to be given monthly, had they notr — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was an excuse given in connection with the stock or hogs 
that they owned? — A. Yes, sir; they complaijied that they ran less risk 
by dividing their stock up at two distilleries. 

Q. You mean as stock, cattle, and hogs? — A. Yes: hogs are affected 
in our country with cholera. There has been a great deal of it in the 
last ten years there. It breaks out in one neighborhood or locality, 
often in one field, when another neighboring field would not be affected 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 369 

by it; and tbey ran less risk, tbey thonght, by dividing their hogs up in 
that waJ^ 

Q. Tbey divided the stills, and they divided the stock they had with 
it — separated them? — A. Yes, sir. Another reason was, some of them 
had different ])ieces of land; one in one locality, and then a little pkxce 
off somewhere else. Their stock being on eacii place, it was a matter of 
convenience, so that they (H)uld use the slop of the separate distilleries 
for the benefit of both. 

Q. How many cases of division of stills occurred in the district, that 
you know of? — A. I do not remember. I know there were very few 
of those cases complained of. 

(). More than three or foar? — A. I do not remember that there were 
more than three or four; although there were more men in the district 
than three or four that had as high as two distilleries. 

Q. You recollect only three or four cases of division f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any way for you to prevent a man from dividing bi;^ 
still of twelve bushels cai^acity, for instance, into three stills of four 
bushels each — any way under the law, after the Commissioner had reduced 
the capacity? — A. No, sir; the law allowed him to part up his distillery, 
and unless we knew he was committing fraud we had no right to stop 
him. 

Q. Is there anything farther you wish to state upon that subject ? — 
A. I do ]iot think of anything now. 

Q. This reduction of the capacity of stills was by order of the Com- 
missioner of Internal Revenue, was it not ? — A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. I will be glad if you will now explain the duty of a general store- 
keeper as distinguished from that of a storekeeper. — A. He is assigned 
to a certain territory, and all suspended distilleries with spirits in the 
warehouses are turned over to him. 

Q. To the general storek-eeper 1? — A. Y"es, sir. 

(»),. AVhat was his duty? — A. Whenever a taxpayer wanted to pay 
taxes on any spirits to withdraw it, it was the duty of the general store- 
kee]>er to go out and withdraw it for the benefit of the tax-payer — the 
distiller. ' 

Q. The spirits that were distilled were put into this bonded ware- 
house without the tax being paid on it, and if it was withdrawn from 
time to time, as the distiller wished to sell or use it, he paid the taxes on 
withdrawing*it'? — A. Y'es, sir. 

Q. It was only in cases of the suspension of distilling operations that 
the warehouses went under the charge of the general storekeeper, was 
itf — A. When tlie storekeeper was there, there was no call for a general 
storekeeper. 

Q. The storekeeper staid there and watched while the liquor was 
being made? — A. Yes; he withdrew tlie spirits when desired just in the 
way the general storekeeper did after the distillery suspended. 

Q. The general storekeeper came in after suspension f — A. Y^es, sir. 

Q. The regular storekeeper was there while the distillery was in op- 
eration ? — A. The purpose of creating the oftice of general storekeeper 
was for the reason that it was less expense to the government. 

Q. Because the general storekeeper could have a good many distil- 
leries under his charge at the same time ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Drake was a general storekeeper residing in Statesville ? — A. 
Y^po mi* 

q! Which Mr. Drake was it ?— A. E. B. Drake. 

Q. What aged man is he? — A. Mr. Drake is now sixty-eight years 
ohl, I think near seventy. 
S. Mis. IIG- 24 



370 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Has be been a great wbile in Statesville? — A. He has been living 
tbere about thirty years, I think. 

Q. Do yon recollect that he has been editor of the Statesville /Ameri- 
can for about twentj^ or thirty years ? — A. Yes, sir, 

Q, ]s he a man of high character? — A. Very high character. 

Q. Did he discharge properly the duties of a general storekeeper 
while he was holding the office f — A. I understand it so. No complaint 
was heard. He kept a horse and sulky there in that place. He went 
out to his division by railroad, bnt used this horse and sulky when it 
was more convenient to go by private conveyance. There were com- 
plaints, 1 understood, about the town there — I suppose on the part of 
somebody that wanted his place — that he delegated his work to others. 
I do not think that that was the case. I think it was done by him only 
because he could not visit two places at one time. When an order 
came into the office for the withdawal of whisky, and tax-jiaid stamps, 
he could not go to both places at once. 

Q. Through what extent of country did his division extend ? — A. I 
do not remember his division ; 1 think, though, it was the eastern sec- 
tion of the district, and several counties. 

Q. Did it extened 25 or 30 miles ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think some of his 
distilleries were nearly 40 miles from the oifice. 

Q. Then if he should have a requisition from a distiller to takeout 
spirits in one end of the district, and another one in the district on the 
same day also wanted to withdraw spirits, it was imi)ossible for him to 
go to both places except within several days f — A. Yes, sir ; impossi- 
ble to reach both places at the same time, and satisfy the distillers, 

Q. Was it permissible, under such circumstances, for him to delegate, 
with your permission, some ])roper officer to take his place at one of his 
distilleries ? — A. He was allowed by the office to do this for the accom- 
modation of the distiller. 

Q. Do you mean by tiieofiiice, the bureau here in Washington? — A. 
No, sir; my office. 

Q. There was no law prohibiting it? — A. I do pot think that it 
was strictly in accordance with the regulations, but there being no fraud 
in it, no purpose to deceive anybody, it being necessarj' for their accom- 
modation to go to these distillers when they made sales, that we thought 
it best to work it in the way we did, and allowed it. 

Q. Did you allow that jjrivilege to other general storekeepers? — A. 
Y>s, sir; to all of them. 

Q. Was (here any instance of fraud upon the government growing 
*ut of it? — A. None that I know of. 

Q. None ever reported to you? — A. Excei)t in the case of Setzer, afc 
Clhirk's distillery dow^n there, wliere it turned out afterwards that there 
was something wrong with the distillery. 

Q. Was that the instance where it was the first act of the general store- 
keeper after getting office? — A. I do not remember whether it was the 
lirsi, act; it was a little after he was appointed. 

Q. A good deal has been said here in one part of the investigation 
about tlie employment of James H. Harris, a colored man, in your district, 
aud about his being absent from duty making speeches in the canvass; 
Ktate what you have to say about the matter. — A. Harris is a colored 
mau in that State whom we think very well of there. We had for some 
time thought it would be a good idea to employ a colored man in the dis- 
trict for tiie purpose of getting anything that fehe colored people might 
know about what was going on in the way of illicit distilling, or illicit 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 371 

•sales of tobacco or whisky, and it was more iu conaectiou with the sales 
<)£ wliisky and tobacco that Harris was employed. 

Q. Yon mean illegal sales? — A. Any illicit sales. Along the South 
<Jarolina line there are no illicit distilleries, but parts of the eastern 
end of the district have always been a sort of depot for illicit traders in 
tobacco and whisky. We have had great difficulty in getting at any- 
thing of that kind that would haj^pen there in that locality. That was 
in the county of Union, more especially, and Cabarrus, Mecklenburg, 
and Cleveland. I had an idea of employing a colored man, with a view 
•of getting at some of these things, and Harris, having applied to me for 
a place, I gave it to him. 

Q. Was he well known among colored people generally? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And had their confidence? — A. Yes; I thought he could give me 
some information that I wanted, and I gave him the place. He did go 
iibout through that district to Union, Cleveland, Shelby, Lincolnton, 
<3harlotte, Concord, Salisbury, and Mocksville, I think, and he gave me 
from time to time — wonld write me anything that he would learn iu re- 
j^ard to those matters. I told him to report to me personally, that if 
he found out anything to let me know about it; and he traveled around 
in the district in that way. 

Q. He made political speeches occasionally, did he not! — A. Yes, 
sir. He is a line political talker, and in the latter part of his service a 
4jampaigu was going on, and he made some speeches. 

Q. Could he not have made speeches without neglecting his duties? — 
A. Y'es, sir; he could have facilitated those duties by getting crowds 
to listen to him. He had a better opportunity to hear anything that 
was going on in that way. 

Q. By talking around among the crowd afterwanlsf — A. Y^'es, sir. 

Q. It was said that he was engaged at one time ontsid**, of the sixth 
district in making political speeches. — A. I never heard that. He might 
Lave made a speech or two at home; he would go home to ll.ileigh now 
and then, and might have made speeches there. 

Q. Was there a time there when he was off without pay! — A. Yes; 
there were a series of appointments in the fall of 1.S80, an(l wirh a view 
to going into the canvass iu that section of the State, he did nor d ) duty 
iis deputy while he made speeches; I mean, the canvass th.it he mada 
was while he was not emjiloyed. 

Q. He was not paid as a deputy for the time he was in this can v.iss ? — 
A. After he Avent off he made some speeches; still lie wis a deputy, 
but not in regnlar line of appointment for a few days. He w.is nol oa 
duty when he was making the regular canvass; he was relieved. 

Q. The vouchers you sent in for his name showed that, for a certain 
length of time no voucher was sent in for him for pav ; w.iic ti n,; wis 
that ? — A. It was during the month of October, just preceding tho elec- 
tion. 

Q. The Commissioner wrote a letter to your subordinate at one time 
inquiring in regard to these assessments for office exp^uis's not allowed 
l>y the government. At another time he wrote a lett(^r to your siibof- 
dinates, as he states, in(iuiring whether you were indebiel to any of 
them, to which he received replies. Did you issue any form for thest* 
re]»lies, or give any i istructiousfor such! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was it done to your knowledge by any one under your employ? — 
A. No, sir; I think not. Mr. D wire stated about how th it was. There 
was no form of circular or letter sent out to reply by. There was, as 



372 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

Mr. Dwire stated afterwards — I did not know about it at the time — a 
statement from Mr. Dwire to some of them asking them to be certain 
about the amount that thej^ had returned to the Commissioner, for the 
reason that if they did not do so it woukl bother the accounts, and he 
did not want any discrepancy^ in it. 

Q. That was in regard to these assessments"? — A. Yes; what I was 
talking about. 

Q. It was talked about that a letter was sent out by the Commissioner^ 
and he said he received answers in five or six days asking if you 
were indebted to any of them? — A. No; there was no form issued at 
the time. I was here. I did not know the letter was sent out, as Gen- 
eral Eaum stated. I was in the city after it had gone out, and the re- 
plies were coming in when 1 heard that such a letter had been sent out. 
But there was no form of reply sent from my office ; the letters will show 
that there could be no regular form. 

Q. Was there any form put ont underyour instructions by your depur 
ties, so far as you know, to influence as what these replies should be iit 
any way"? — A. Not in any way whatever. I did not go home but re- 
mained here all the time. The letters were sent directly to the officers, 
from the department to their post-offices, and it would be impossible in 
the quick return to liave any system of explanation or instructions with 
regard to it sent out. Those letters should be in here this morning. 

Mr. Pool. I desire to i)ut these letters in in connection with the doc- 
tor's statement, the replies that the Commissioner received, the letter 
asking in regard to the amounts paid for office expenses, and also the 
replies to the letter which the Commissioner sent out asking if the col- 
lector Avas indebted to any of his subordinates. 

The CriAiUMAN. You do not want them all published I 

Mr. Pool. Yes; we want them published to show on their face that 
there was no form of reply sent out. 

The Chairman. I am willing to have them epitomized and put in ; 
nbut in their present shape they would make a considerable volume 
merely to show one fact. 

The Witness. If I am allowed to state, they are in regard to a very 
important matter down there. 

Senator Mitchell. I think it is very proper evidence in this case as. 
pertaining to a fact that has been in dispute. Tha^Commissioner 
thouglitit of sufficient importance to inquire into it, and, of course, the 
letters are evidence in the case. 

Senator McDill. I move that Mr. Pool be requested to mark in pen- 
<5il the parts he desires to be printed, and they be introduced in fine 
type, subject to the revision of the committee, so that the committee 
can cut out ever^^thing which ought not to go in. 

Mr. Pool. I would much rather that the stenograi^her would do that 
under the general instructions of the committee. 

The Commissioner's letters and extracts from the replies are as fol- 
loM s : 

Treasury Departmext, 

Office OF Internal Revenue, 

IVashinytoti, D. C, .Ueceinber 15, 1880. 
Sir: You will please report to this office the amount contributed by you to defray 
the incidental expenses of the office of the collector of the sixth district of North 
Carolina. 

Respectfully, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Comnnssioner. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 373 

P. M. Hihlebrand, Newton, N. C, January 3,1850: " I paid $2." 

L. M. Davis, York Institute, N. C, , 1880: "I have not- paid anythini;- to defray 

the above-named expenses." 

Robert R. Ray, Cliarlotte, , December 18, 18^0: "I have conrributed to the in- 
cidental expenses of the collector's office * * » one month's salary, say, $->0." 

William J. Coite, Statesville, December 18, 1880 : " I regret being obliged to reply, 
that not having kept, any memorandum of such amounts, I am unable to positively 
state them. Some time during January, 1879, a boy was emjjloyed to do work in our 
office (errands, sweeping, &c.), no other means of paying him being provided, we 
office deputies and clerks made up the amount by contribution; this was coutinued. 
^lutii alt(uit October, 1879, where, for this and otheroffice expenses not otherwise pro- 
vided for, other officers were asked to help in these payments. From January to 
October, 1879, I think I paid $2 per month direct to the boy employed, as my share, 
being in all, probably, $18. I have no recollection of having contributed anything 
iifter October, 1879."" 

J. Frank Davis, Statesville, , December 18,1880: "I have paid for tables and 

files for official papers the sum of $15. I have also expended, as my part of wages 
paid to the office messenger, about 112 or $15 up to July 1, 1880. These amounts were 
all paid from my private money." 

M. W. Jewett, Dallas, N. C, December 18, 1880: "I have never contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

H. W. Dean, Statesville, , December 18, ls80: "I have expended nothing for 

such expenses." 

A. H. Gillespie, Statesville, , December 18, 1880: ''I have never contributed 

anything to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

Franklin G. Thorpe, Eagle Mills, N. C, December 18, 1880: " I did not furnish any- 
thing in the last campaign, as I was not then storekeeper and ganger." 

Richard Williams, Morgantou, N. C, December 18, 18i^0 : "I have contributed 
nothing, as I have not been on duty." 

H. C. Snipes. Morgauton, N. C, December 19, 1880: "I have never been assigned 
to duty yet, consequently have contributed nothing." 

J. B. Ri".)iiir(ls, Gastonia, N. C, December 20, 1880: "I have never contributed any- 
thing for this purpose." 

John F. Aydlotte, Buffalo Paper Mill, N. C, December 20, 1880: "I have not con- 
tributed anything to office of the sixth collection district of North Carolina for inci- 
dental expenses. I have never been asked to contribute anything." 

T. J. Dula, Wilkesborongh, , December 20, 1880 : " I have contributed nothing 

for such purposes." 

W. Skidmore, Mount Holly, N. C, December 20, 1880: "I have not contributed 
anything toward the object named, nor have I been called upon to do so." 

M. L. Whitley, Old Fort, N. C, December 20, 18S0 : "I requested the collector to 
pay $25 for me to the Finance Committee for Republican funds in defraying election 
ex]>enses; not having the money myself, and not getting my June pay, I was nnable 
to advance the amount, and asked the collector to do so for me." 

P. F. Langenour, Panther Creek, N. C, Ddcembi'.r 21), 18:^0: "I have contributed 
only $1 to defr.iy the iuculental expenses of office of the collector." 

Jere Smith, Taylorsville, N. C, Deceml)er 20, 1880: "I have not contributed any 
for the above-mentioned expenses." 

W. D. Mason, Fork Church, N. C, December 20, 1880 : " I contributed to defray the 
expenses of the office * * * the amount of $88." 

P. M. Nicks, Hamptonville, N. C, December 20, 1880: "The undersigned has respect- 
fully to report that he contributed $104 to defray the incidental expenses of the office 
of the collector." 

C. L. Weir, Mocksville, N. C, December 20, 1880: "I have not ])aid anything 
towards defraying the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

R. J. Williams, Rutherfordton, December 20, 1880: "I have paid nothing to defray 
incidental expenses of the office of collector." 

J. L. Jones, Panther Creek, N. C, December 21, 1880: "I think the amount is 
about |5." 

Milton A. Holland, Dallas, N. C, December 21, 1880: "I have not kept a strict 
account, » * * but I state that I have contributed about $7.40 to defray the inci- 
dental expenses of the office of the collector." 

George H. Brown, Statesville, N. C, December 21, 1880 : " In reply, say that at some- 
time duiing the latter part of the year 1878, the work of the office having become so 



374 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE ]N 

large, that it was agreed amoag the employes of the office to contribute and pay a col 
oredboy, as a porter or messenger, to clean up the office, build fires, and remainduring 
the day to go on errands, &c. He also waited upon Mr. J. F. Davis, one of the clerk8;„ 
who had a room and slept in the office building. I kept no memorandum or account 
of the amount paid, and do not now remember the amount. The whole amount did 
not exceed .f 15. Since I have been connected with the office I have also paid for a- 
rough desk for my own convenience — a trilling sum, nofc exceeding $3.50. 

Alouzo C. Monday, Coopers, N. C, December 21, 1880: "I have never been asked 
to contribute anything to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector. ''' 

G. A. J. Sechler, China Grove, N. C, December 21, 1880: "I have not contributed 
anything to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector, * * * as L 
never was asked to give anything." 

George W. Williams, Asheville, N. C, December 21 , ISSO : '' I never have contributed 
one cent to the incidental expenses of the office." 

W. W. White, , December 21, 1830: "I haven't contributed anything." 

W. A. Williams, Morganton, N. C, December 21, 1880 : " I have never been assigned 
to duty as storekeeper and ganger, consequently have contributed nothing to collec- 
tor's office." 

Claudius T. Herman, Taylorsville, N. C, December. 22, 1880: "I have not con- 
tributed anything for the above named expenses." 

P. L. Rose, Statosville, N. C, December 22, 1880: "I never subscribed or contributed 
anything except towards paying Henry Dean, a colored boy, who waited on the office. 
I have forgotten the amount paid to him, but from the best of my recollection I paid 
him $2 per month for several months." 

0. M. Barkley, Statesville, N. C, December 22, 1880: ''I did not keep a strict ac- 
count, but I suppose I have contributed some |3 or $4 to defray some expenses con- 
nected with the office of the collector." 

H. I. Kennedy, King's Mountain, N. C, December 22, 1880 : •' I have contributed tO' 
defray incidental expeuses'of the office of the collector, * * * ,|7.75." 

W. B. Lay, Gastonia, N. C, December 22, 1880: "I have kept no account of the- 
amount contributed by me for the incidental expenses of the collector's office of this 
(sixth) district of North Carolina, but have contributed a small amount at diffcrenb 
times before last June; nothing since then. Would suppose that the total s)ara so con- 
tributed would be about $5 or $6." 

C. W. Lourancp, Statesville, N. C, December 22, 1880: "The amount contributed 
by me was about $3.10, paid iu thi collector's office." 

H. Y. Mott, Statesville, N. C, December 22, 1880: "I respectfully state that I never- 
contributed anything." 

H. X. Dwire, Statesville, N. C, December 22, 1880: "I have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the office of collector." 

Enoch Rector, Marshall, N. C, December 22, 1880: "At the time I was called npnu 
by collector Mott to contribute to the incidental expenses of the office, I did not bave^ 
the funds to pay, and it was generally understood that the western district, being in 
the mountains, should bear their own expenses. I did all I could for our party during: 
the campaign." 

A. M. Vail, Mocksville, N. C, December 22, 1880: "It has never been my privilege 
to contribute anything, as I have only been in the employment of the government, 
under collector Mott, since the 1st of the present month, consequently I have mad& 
none." 

D. C. Pearson, Morganton, N. C, December 22, 1880: "In consequence of my hav- 
ing iiaid my own expenses as a delegate to Chicago, I was not called upon by the col- 
lector, for he knew of my having defrayed the expenses of a considerable number of 
delegates to our State convention in addition to my own at Chicago. I also contrib- 
uted to the expense of the campaign in this county, Caldwell, and McDowell, that 
adjoin. In a word, I can say truthfully that from the beginning to the end of the 
campaign I contributed not less than $500." 

Wade W. Hampton, Eagle Mills, December 23, 1880 : " I have never been called on 
by the collector of this district to contribute anything for incidental expenses." 

1. O. Hart. Lewisville, N. C, December 23, 1880: "I never have been on duty until 
the 8th day of this month, consequently haven't as yet received any compensation,, 
and have not been asked for any contributions." 

T. A. Gill, , December 23, 1880: " I have not done anything in this line as. 

yet ; have not been called on for anything. This is my 6rst month on duty;" 

S. D. Brown, Hamptouville, N. C, December 23, 1880: " To the best of my knowl- 
edge, I have contributed but |4." 



THE SIXTPI DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 375 

W. F. Holland, King's Mountain, N. C, December 23, 1H80 : " I am not positive as 
amount to contributed for incidental expenses, as I kept no record, but think about 
$5 or .16."' 

C. T. Colyer, Statesville, December 23, 1830 : " The sum paid by me in monthly pay- 
ments for about eight mouths amounted to about |15 towards the messenger's wages." 

T. L. Shields, Charlotte, N. C, December 23, 1880: "I have contributed nothiug to 
the present date to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

F. P. Axley, Murphy, , December 23, 1880: "I have never made any contri- 
butions for such i)urposes." 

W. S. Arnold, Hamptonville, N. C, December 23, 1880: "I have not paid anything, 
from the fact I had not been in business but a few weeks, and have not been called 
on.'' 

J. Q. Peden, Wilkes, , December 23, 1880 : "I have contributed nothing." 

A. F. Pack, Fork Church, N. C, December 23, 1830: "I have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

R. C. Perkins, Morganton, N. C, December 23, 1830: "I do not understand the 
meaning of the inquiry, knowing nothing at all of incidental expenses, aud never 
having contributed anything to such account." 

M. L. Hooper, Williamsburg, N. C, December 23, 1880: "I have the honor to report 
to your office the amount of $4 that I contributed to defray ' not the incidental ex- 
penses proper,' but the extraordinary expenses, not otherwise provided for by the de- 
partment, as I understood it, of the office of the collector * * *." 

W. F. Hood, Yadkinville, N. C, December 23, 1880 : " I have never beeu asked to 
contribute anything to defray the expenses of the office of the collector." 

E. Stanly Walton, Morganton, N. C, December 23, 1380: " Have never been called 
upon by the collector of * * * for contributions to defray the incidental expenses 
of his office ; consequently have contributed nothing." 

H. H. Martin, Dallas, N. C, December 24, 1880 : "Made no incidental contribution to 
defray the expenses of the collector's office." 

Samuel R. Gudger, Morganton, N. C, December 24, 1880: "Have not beeu called 
upon to contribute anything to defray expenses of the office of the collector." 

A. J. Jenkins, Dallas, N. C, December 24, 1880: "Have not been requested or as- 
sessed to pay anything for office expenses, coutingeut or otherwise, since my connec- 
tion with tiie revenue department, either by Dr. Mott or any other officer in the 
internal revenue service." 

R. C. Bowles, Sweet Home, N. C, December 24, 1830: "Have contributed nothiug 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

W. C. Myers, Lovelace, N. C, December 24, 1880 : " Have not paid any incidental 
expenses of the collector's office." 

T. W. Sharpe, Sweet Home, N. C, December 24, 1880: "Have contributed nothing 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

A. B. Rhyue, Dallas, N. C, December 24, 1880: " I did not contribute anything to 
the sixth district of North Carolina. I was not requested to contribute anything." 

D. C. Pearson, Morganton, N. C, December 24, 1880: " I was not on duty at the 
time, and was not among those who were called upon to contribute to the expenses 
of the office at Statesville, N. C." 

J. H. Pitts, Catawba, N. C, December 24, 1880: " Have never been asked for con- 
tributions for any purpose." 

M. Kimbrongh, Smith Grove, N. C, December 24, 1830 : "My recollection is that the 
amount conti'ibuted was about $4." 

W. C. Morrison, Statesville, N. C, December 24, 1831: " Have contributed the sum 
of $4 to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

Lawson A. Mason, Dallas, N. C, December 24, 1830: "Have no statement of the 
amount contributed, hence I will refer you to the collector's office at Statesville, N. C, 
for information." 

J. B. Evans, Rntherfordton, N. C, December 24, 1830: "For five or six months I 
paid 1 per cent, of my salary to defray the incidental expenses of office of the collector, 
* * * amounting'to $5 or f6 ; since March last I don't think I have paid anything." 

J. M. Armstrong, Dallas, N. C, December 24, 1880: "A request was made that I 
would contribute $1 per month or 1 per cent, of my wages to defray an expense of 
said office, that had not otherwise been paid, aud in this way 1 paid for said purpose 

i|(;.2.5." 

Elbert Wallace, Wilkesboro, N. C, December 24, 1880: " I have never contributed 
anything to said office for the purpose above referred to." 



376 COLLECTION OF USTEENAL EEVENUE IN 



1 



S. P. Ward, Couuty Line, N. C, December 25, 1880 : "I liave not contributed any 
tbiug to defray the incidental expenses of tlie office of the collector." 

E. A. Cobb, Morgauton, N. C, December 25, 1S80 ; "No recollection of ever being 
asessed any aniouuc for that purpose." 

Wade H. Huffman, Dallas, N. C, December 25, 1880: "Have never contributed 
anything to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

W. S. McKee, Gastonia, N. C, December 25, 1880 : " Have never contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of this sixth district of North Carolina." 

W. H. Hobsou, Jerusalem, N. C, December 25, 1880 : " Have contributed nothing." 

L. C. Jennings, Moravian Falls, N. C, December 25, 1880: " Have not contributed 
anything to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office. * * * Have 
not been asked." 

W. H. Ehyne, Dallas, N. C, December 26, 1880: "I was asked to contribute 1 per 
cent, of my wages, and have not kept any account of the payment. I think about 

$12." 
J. N. Hayes, Miller' ,s Creek, N. C, December 27, 1880: "Ifc is between $4 and $6." 

John. A. Keener, Poor's Ford, N. C, December 27, 1880 : " I paid in $17.85 to pay office 
expenses in the collector's office." 

B. V. Beal, Lincolnton, N. C, December 27, 1880: "I must say that I have never 
contributed anything." 

Julius Brittou, Morgauton, N. C, December 27, 1880 : " Contributed nothing to 
the expenses account of the office at Statesville, N. C." 

W.J.Mills, Salisbury, N. C, December 27 1880: "Have not been asked to con- 
tribute any money to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

W. M. Nicholson, Morgauton, N. C, December 27, 1880: " Have never been called 
on to hell) to defray i-aid expenses, therefore never contributed anything for that pur- 
pose," 

W. F. Porter, Mulberry, N. C, December 27, 1880: "Have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

H. M. Ehyne, Stanley's Creek, N. C, December 27, 1880: " Never have been asked 
for any contributions." 

S. P. Smith, Wilkesborough, N. C, December 27, 1880: '' Have neither been called 
upon nor contributed anything." 

John M. Taylor, East Bend, N. C, December 27, 1880: "Have contributed nothing." 

W. M. Walker, Salisbury, N. C, December 27, 1880: "Have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the oliice of the collector." 

E. Ladd, New Castle, N. C, December 28, 1880: "Have not contributed anything 
and have not been asked for anything." 

A. B. Bntner, Smith Grove, N. C, December 28, 1880: " Have kept no account, 
but think the amount did not exceed $5." 

T. A. Atkins, Eagle Mills, N. C, December 28, 1880: "Have paid in to Dr. J. J. 
Mott, collector, for incidental expenses the sum of |1 and no more." 

S. C. Davis, Huntsville, N. C, Dec mber 28, 1880: "I have contributed $2 towards 
defraying the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

H. E. Shore, Eed Plains, N. C, December 2S, 1880 : " I have never been asked by 
our collector to contribute anvthing for purposes referred to, hence have never done 
so." 

Daniel S. Summers, Gaston County, N. C, December 28, 1880: "I can state not 
anything up to the present." 

P. A. Little, Catawba, N. C, December 28, 1880: " Have not contributed anything 
to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector of the * ^ * ." 

H. H. McKee, Yadkinville, N. C, December 28, 1880 : " I have never had any work 
to do as storekeeper and gauger, and therefore I have never been asked to contribute 
anything to defray incidental expenses of the collector's office * * * but am will- 
ing to meet any assessment that may be demanded of me." 

Eobt. Hawkins, High Knob, N. C, December 29, 1880 : " I have not contributed 
anything to the incidental expenses of the office sixth district. North Carolina." 

J. B. Simonton, Wilkesborough, N. C, December 30, 1880: " I state I have not, nor 
have been called upon for anything for that purpose." 

J. F. Somers, Wilksborough, N. C, December 30, 1880 : " I have not, nor never have 
been called upon for anything for the purpose." 

J. Blevins, Jefferson, N. C, December 30, 1880 : " I never contributed anything to 
the office at Statesville. I never have been asked for anything yet." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 377 

A. C. Bryan, Wilkfsboiougli, N. C, December 30, 1860: " I have not paid anything 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

Mecans Casstevens, Jonesville, N. C, December 30, 1880: " I have contribnted but 
$1 to the object referred to." 

A. W. Austin, Wilkesborough, N. C, December 30, 1880: "I have iiot coutributed 
anything to defray the incidental expenses of the officer of collector." 

S. L. Davis, Yadkin ville, N. C, December 30, 1880: " I was never called on for any 
funds for incidental expenses for the collector ' * *." 

S. K. Harkrader, Dobson, N. C, December 31, 1880 : "I have never been called upon 
for anything and have not paid anything." • 

J. C. Johnson, Hamptonville, N. C, December 31, 1880: " I have contributed noth- 
ing, not being called on." 

Noah Barriuger, Newton, N. C, December 31, 1880: " I have not coutributed any- 
thing to defra/the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

L. A. Robinson, : " Have paid $4. 25." 

■ Samuel C. Welch, East Bend, N. C, January 1, 1881: "I was uot asked for any- 
thing, and did uot contribute anything, to defray the incidental expenses of the office 
•of the collector." 

W. R. Trull, , January 1, 1881: "Have never paid or coutributed anything 

for incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

J. T. Mcintosh, Taylorsville, N. C, January 1, 1881: "Have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

J. W. I'adeu, Apple Grove, N. C, January 1,1881: "I never coutributed anything, 
nor neither was I called on to do so." 

T. J. Martin, Haysville, N. C, January 1, 1881: "No funds have been contributed 
by nie to defray the incidental expenses of the office of collector." 

"Enoch Rector, Marshall, N. C, January 1, 1881: " I did not know anything of that, 
having never been called to contribute such." 

John F. Smitherman, East Bend, N. C, January 1, 1881: "I have uot given any- 
thing." 

J. B. Somers, Hunting Creek, N. C, January 1, 1881 : " Have contributed nothing." 

E. Q. Houston, Mount Mourue, N. C, January 1, 1881 : ;' Have contributed nothing 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

N. H. Harrington, Jonesville, N. C, January 1, 1881 : " I never contributed anything, 
iiud never was asked." 

M. H. Vestal, Jonesville, N. C, January 1, 1881; "I have contributed one dollar 
to defray the incidental expenses. of the office of the collector." 

W. C. Prevett, Osbornville, N. C, January 1, 1881: "I have contributed $2.10 to 
defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

W. B. England, , January 1, 1881 : " Have paid p.1.5." ., , , . 

MilusM. Crumel, Cross Roads Church, N. C, January 1, 1881: "I contributed to 
the office of the collector ** * * about $3.50 to defray the Incidental expenses ot 
that office.'' 

W. F. Alexander, Roaring River, N. C, January 1, 1881 : " I coutributed to defray 
the incidental expenses of the office of the .sixth district of North Carolina, $1.80. 

D. M. Haithcox, Troutman's, N. C, January 1, 1881: "I wasnot called on for any- 
thing and did uot contribute anything." 

Leanders L. Green, Booue,N. C, January 2, 18S1 : " Have uot contributed anything 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector." 

J. H. Harris, Salisbury, N. C, January 2, 1881 : " Have not been asked to contribute 
for the purpose mentioned, and I have contributed nothing." 

Wm. P. A. White, McCurdy, N. C, January 3, 1881 : " Have uot paid anything for 
any purpose." 

H. P. Conley, Caldwell City, N. C, January 3, 1881: " Have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

J. Wagoner, Hamptonville, N. C, Jauiary 3, 18-^1: "Have not contributed any- 
t ling, not being called on." 

R. W. Woodrufif, Jonesville, N. C, January 3, 1881: " I paid about $2.75 to defray 
the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

F. M. Adams, Mulberrv, N. C, January 3, 1881 : "I paid into the sixth collector of 
North Carolina the sum "of $7 for incidental expenses of feaid office." 

W. G. Boyle, Concord, N. C, January 3, 1381: " Have coutributed $4.15 to defray 
t'le iucidenUl expenses of the office of the collector." 



378 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

F. F. Halcomb, Hamptonville, N. C, January 3, 1881: ''Have contributed abou* 
fl.lO to defray the incidental expenses of the collector." 

J. W. Clarke, Shelby, N. C. : "I contributed to the office of the collector * » * 
$104, and various other amounts for the same purpose in this and adjoining counties. 
I wrote to you a few days ago, January .3, in reply to yours * * ' * and reported 
that I had paid to the collector * * * $104 for office expenses, which was a mistake. 
I paid that amount for campaign expenses. I have paid to date $9.90 for office ex- 
penses." 

T. B. Haynes, Jonesville, N. C, January 3, 18S1 : " Have never contributed anything- 
to the collector." 

S. P. Parsons, of Gastouia, N. C, January 3, 1881: "I cannot specify the exact 
amount. I think about $8 or $10. It is now some time since I contributed anything,, 
and cannot tell the time of my first, but the assessment was $1 per month." 

Emmett Johnson, Dellapilan, N. C, January 4, 1881 : " Have not coutributed any- 
thing to pay the incidental expenses of collectors ; neither have I been requested to 
pay anything." 

Jacob M. Privett, Trap Hill, N. C, January 4, 1881: "Have not contributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the office of the sixth district of North 
Carolina ; neither have I been asked for anything." 

George Z. Poindexter, East Bend, N. C, January 4, 1881 : " Have paid nothing to 
the collector." 

D. P. Allgood, Cross-Roads Church, N. C, January 5, 1881 : "I coutributed to the 
office of the collector * * * about |3.15 to defray incidental expenses of that 
office." 

Robert L. Bell, , Januarys, 1881 : " Have never contributed anything to defray 

the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

H. M. Brooks, Jefferson, N. C, January .5, 1881 : "Have contributed nothing to de- 
fray the incidental expenses of the collector's office * * * that I can think of at 
the present." 

William Howard, Mountain Creek, N. C, January 5, 1881 : "Have not contributed 
anything to defray incid^eutal expenses of the collector's office. I have not been 
called upon to contribute anything." 

Samuel H. Johnson, Zion, N. C, January 5, 1881 : " Have not contributed one cent— 
not being called on — for anything whatever." 

W. M. Johnson, Sowerwood, N. C, January 7, 1881 : " I did not contribute anything 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

S. P. Pasom, Gastouia, N. C, January 7, 1881 : "I find that I could not have con- 
tributed more than |7 or $8. I think about f7 is the nearest estimate that I can 
make." 

A. Wiles, Mulberry, N. C, January 7, 1881 : "I have not contributed anything." 

Sumpter A. Hoover, Statesville, N. C, January 8, 1881 : " I have paid $1 to defray 
the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

G. W. Setzer, Newton, N. C, January 8, 1881 : "I have contributed to the amount 
of $5 to the collector's office * * * f.-r incidental expenses of the office." 

Andrew J. Burch, Aguone, N. C, January 8, 1881 : "Have never coutributed any- 
thing, nor have I been asked or requested to do so." 

F. P. Tucker, Forks Church, N. C, January 10, 1881 : " Have never given anything 
for that purpose." 

R. R. Reid, Olin, N. C, January 10, 1881: "Have never been called on as yet to 
contribute to any such cause." 

F. Caldwell, Dallas, N. C, January 10, 1881: " Have " contributed $1 to defray the 
expenses of the collector's office." 

Jos. Casswell, Morganton, N. C, January 10, 1881 : " I never contributed anything 
to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

A. a. Myres, New Hope, N. C, January 10, 1881: "I have never coutributed any- 
thing to defray the incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

Jno. A. Clouse, Smith Grove, N. C, January 10, 1881 : "Have not paid or been 
asked for anything for incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

J. L. -Smith, Medway, N. C, : "Have never contributed directly or indi- 
rectly one cent to the collector of the 5th or 6th, or to any one connected with either 
of the districts," 

M. J. Boseman, : "Have never given anything ; have not been asked for any- 
thing." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. Oi'J 

J. T. Rutledge, Cross- Roads Church, N. C, January 11, 1881: " I think I paid p.nO,. 
or about that amount." 

J. S. Jones, East Bend, N. C, January 11, 1881: "The correct amount paid by me- 
to defray incidental expenses of tlie office to be l|:i.l5. 

A. B. Howard, Statesville, N. C, January 11. 1881 : " Have never contributed any- 
thing to defray the iuci<lental expenses of the office of the collector, * * * as I 
have never been called upon to do so." 

W. L. Webster, Nottla, N. C, January 11, 1881: " Have never contributed anything 
for tiie purpose mentioned in your letter of the 15th December, 1881." 

J. A. Mathes, Osbornville, N. C, January 12, 1881 : " Have not contributed any- 
tliino- to pay the incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

Wm. M.Moore, Bnrusville, N. C, January 12, 1881: "Have not paid anything to- 
defray the incidental expenses of the office of the collector. * * * I have not beei> 
called upon for any money for that purpose.'' 

R. R. Lowe, Ohio, N. C, January V.i, 1861 : '' I have contributed $1 to defray the in- 
cidental expenses of tlie office of the collector." 

T. S. Wood, , January IS, 1881: "I never paid anything for incidental ex- 
penses. I paid for campaign purposes." 

G. A. Barkley, Denver, N. C, .January 15, 1881: "Have contributed $1.10 to the- 
sixth collection district of North Carolina, as incidental fees." 

S. S. Jennings, Mulberry, N. C, January 15, 1881 : " Have not contributed anything 
to defray tbe incidental expenses of the collector's office." 

S. C.Anderson, Boon, N.C., January 15, 1881: "Ha%'e not contributed anything to 
defray incidental expenses of the office of the sixth district of North Carolina." 

Alex. W. Klutz, Monroe, N. C, January 17, 1881 : "Have not contributed anything to- 
the incidental expenses account of Collector J. J. Mott's office." 

M. A. White, Statesville, N.C., January 17, 1881: "Would respectfully reply that I 
paid nothing." 

T. A. Kerley, East Bend, N. C, January 18, 1881: "Have not contributed anything 
to defray the incidentals of the collector's office." 

L. C.Johnson, Hamptonvine,N.C., January 18,1881: "Will say my expenses in the 
collector's office have been nothing." 

Henry Hodge, Rutherfordton, N. C, January 18, 1881 : " Have never contributed any- 
thing."' 

W. T.Bailey, Morganton,N.C., January 18,1881: "Have never contributed any- 
thing to defray the expen.ses of the collector's office of * * * , nor have not heeii 
a.sked for anything in that direction." 

T. H. Hampton, Black Mountain, N. C, January 20,1881: "Have never paid any- 
thing in the office of the collector to defray any incidental expenses of the office, and. 
have never been called upon to do so." 

W. C. Douglass, Trap Hill, N. C, January 20, 1881 : " I never contributed any, and L 
have never been a-ked to contribute any." 

J. Q. A. Bryan, Jetferson, N. C. , January 20, 1881 : " Have not contributed anything,. 
neither have I been called upon for any such contribution," 

W. G. C. Hendrix, Smith Grove, N. C, January 20, 1881 : "I contributed $2 to defray 
the incidental expenses of the office of collector." 

G. W. Patterson, Concord, N. C, January 21, 1881 : " I contributed |1.35 to defray the 
incidental expenses of the office of the collector." 

Elijah Dyer, Maple Springs, N. C, January 29,18-^1: "Have not contributed auy 
money in the office of the collector.'' 



Tri':asuky Department, 
Office of Interxai. Revenue, 
WasMvgton, D. C, January 26, 1882. 
Sir : It has been reported to this office that officers and employes in the sixth dis- 
trict of North Carolina have not received from the collector the money due them for 
their services. • , i i i 

You will please state explicitly by return mail whether Collector Mott is indebted 
to you on account of any receipt' which you have given to him by virtue of your s( rv^- 
ices as an officer or emi)loye of the government. 

This inquiry is not made upon the theory that this office believes Dr. Mott to hive 



380 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

been derelict, but because bis official conduct iu this regard bas, by certain parties, 
l)een brougbt in question. 
Respectfully, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissioner, 

A. B. Rbyne, Dallas, N. C, January 28, 1882 : ''Dr. J. J. Mott * *' * is not in- 
■debted to me for any service rendered by me." 

John T. Keerans, Statesville, N. C, January 28, 1882 : "Collector Mott has paid me 
-every cent as special deputy collector, and for all services rendered, and he is not in- 
•debted to me on account of any receipt given him for services as an officer of the 
_government." 

J. C. Johnson, Haraptonville,N. C, January 28, 1882: "Collector Mott has not re- 
tained anything due me, therefore he owe's me nothing." 

John H. Stewart, Mocksville, N. C, January 28, 1882: 'II have received from Col- 
lector Mott every cent due me but a part of last June's pay. I was informed that there 
was a deficiency, and to make out two sets of accounts, one up to and including June 
20, and the other for balance of month. I did not get a month's pay in 1880. I author- 
ized Collector Mott to use it in the campaign." 

W. W. Patterson, East Bend, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " Dr. J. J. Mott * * * has 
paid me every cent due me." 

C. L. Weir, Mocksville, N. C, January 26, 1882 : " Collector Mott is not indebted to 
aue on any account or receipt that I have given to him, excepting for the present 
month of January, which is not due until the 10th of February, 1882." 

P. M. Hildevana, Newton, N. C, January 21), 1882: "Dr. Mott has paid me all that 
was due me." 

J. F. Adams, Lexington, N. C, January 27, 1882 : " Collector Mott is not indebted 
"to me on account of any receipt which I have given to him." 

W. A. McCorkle, Salisbury, N. C, January 27, 1882 : " He does not owe me anything 
for any receipt I have given him." 

W. J. Mills, Salisbury, N. C, January 27, 1882 : "My pay has been received promptly 
by me." 

William J. Coite, Statesville, N. C, January 27, 1882 : "I have received every cent 
<lue me as an employe of the government in this district." 

H. X. Dwire, Winston, January 27, 1882 : " I always received the pay j)romptly and 
in full for all services rendered as an employ^ of the government." 

J. W. Bean, Lincoluton, January 28, 1882: "Collector Mott does not owe for any 
^services on receipt or otherwise." 

T. J. Dula, Wilkesborough, N. C, January 28, 1872 : " Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me on any account, neither has he ever retained or kept back one cent of the 
wages due me, * * * but has paid me the same promptly." 

Humphrey H. Hall, Salisbury, N. C, January 28, 1872 : "Dr. J. J. Mott is due me no 
money for services rendered." 

Noah Barringer, Newton, N. C; January 28, 1882 : " Dr. Mott has iiaid me for every 
•day that I served in the revenue department." 

G.F. Flowers, Dallas, Gaston County, North Carolina, January 22, 1882 : "I have 
"been paid in full of my services." 

John C. Callahan, Charlotte, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " I received through Collector 
Mott notice of my appointment as storekeeper and ganger sixth district North Caro- 
lina, but have not been assigned to duty." 

S. Cauley, Dallas, N. C, January 28, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott, * * * of North 
Carolina, has promptly paid me all dues and demands for service rendered iu my official 
capacity." 

M. Lippard, Taylorsville, N. C, January 28, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always paid me 
promptly for my services as storekeeper and ganger as it became due, ever since I 
have been employed as such, and he is not due me one cent on account of any receipt 
■or anything else given him or any one else." 

G.W.Cannon, Asheville, N. C, January 28, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott, collector of the 
sixth district of North Carolina, is not due me any money for services rendered." 

E. B. Drake, Statesville, N. C, January 28, 1862 : "The collector. Dr. J. J. Mott, does 
not owe me any money or wages for which I have signed a receipt." 

C. W. Lourance, Statesville; N. C, January 28, 1882 : " Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me on any account. I have received all accounts due me from him for services 
xendered." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 381 

T. N. Hallyburton, Mor<;:intoD, N. C, Jiuniary26, 1882: " I have recoiveil my com- 
pensation rej-'nliir tVoni Dr. Mott, ayd that he owes me nothing." 

E. Stanley Walton, Moiganton, N. C, Jannary 28, 1882 : "Dr. J. .1. Mott, collector, 
is not indebted to nie on acconut of any receipt given to him by virtue of my service* 
as an officer oi' eniployt'; of the government." 

S. L. Tays, Stateaville, N. C, January 2-^, 1SS>: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * ha* 
paid me promptly for every day's service rendered by me to the government." 

F. C. Ferguson, Dallas, N. C, January 28, 1882: " Collector Mott is not indebted tO' 
me on accolmt of any receii)t or other obligation, but that I have received my pay- 
regularly and ])r()mptly for all services rendered." 

J. B. Richards, Gastonia, N. C, January 28, 1882: " Dr. Mott, as collector, owes me 
nothing in regard to services ; has always been very punctual." 

L. A. Robinson, Catawba, N. C, January 2.8, 1882 : " He is not indebted to me in any 
way, and that I have always received my checks promptly for services rendered." 

W. E. Lourance, Catawba, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " I have been paid oft" regularly ; 
no claims back of any kind." 

J. H. Ramsay, Statesville, N. C, January 28, 1882: " I have always received my 
pay in full for services rendered as an employdof the government under him promptly^ 
at the close of each and every month. Dr. Mott is not indebted to me on account of 
' any receipt' or in any other way whatever." 

L. A. Brittain, Morganton, N. C, January 28, 1882: "Received my pay regular as 
it came due, and all that was due me from J. J. Mott." 

S. P. Pasonr, Stanley Creek, N. C, January 2-^, 1882: "None of my dues have been 
■withheld from me by Collector Mott. I have been promptly paid for my services in the 
revenue department, with the exception of the ten last days of June, 1881, whereof 
I was uotitied'that the funds appropriated for the year were exhausted." 

E. L. Sniyre, (iastonia, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " There is due me from the govern- 
ment |27, for nine days' work as storekeeper and ganger in the month of Jnmi, IH81. 
This is all that is due me from the government in any way whatever. Dr. J. J. Mott, 
collector, told us storekeepers and gangers that there had not been api)r()priatiou. 
made for that ])urpose." 

W. L. Westmoreland, Snitesville, N. C, January 28. 1882: "Collector J. J. Mott is 
not indebted to me in any sum on account of any receipt that I have given hau for 
service as an otiticer or employe ot the government." 

T. Glenn. Statesville, N. C, January 2S, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted to 
me in any sum whatever on account oif any receipt I have given him. I have received 
all money due me." 

H. W. Dean, Statesville, January 28, 1882: "I have promptly received my salary 
in full for each month's service rendered the government from J. J. Mott, * _ '" * 
and he now owes me nothing whatever in either his oftieial or personal capacity." 

A. C. Shaye, Statesville, N. C, January 28, 1882: "I have received every cent due 
me from Dr.' J. J. Mott, otticially or otherwise." 

J. Frank Davis, Statesville, Jannary 28, 1882: " I have ])romptly received my salary 
in full for each month's service rendered the government from J. J. Mott, * _ * *" 
and be now owes me nothing whatever in either his ottieial or personal capacity." 

P. L. Rose, Statesville, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " I have recei vediny salary promptly 
at the end of each month." 

C. T. Colyer, Statesville, .lanuary 28, 1882: "I have always received my monthly 
check in full from the cashier and disl>ursing deputy collector up to the present time^ 
and that he is not indebted to me for such services excei)t lor the current mouth due 
first February next." 

James G. Hood, Statesville, January 28, 1882: "Dr. Mott is dire me nothing for 
services rendered as deputy collector under him, and that I have always receive 
my full wages promptly at t'he end of every month as an officer of the government." 

George F. Brown, Statesville, N. C, Jannary 28, 1882: "He is not indebted to me 
in any sum on said account, all moneys due me having been promptly paid at the 
close of each mtmth." 

R. R. Ray, Charlotte, January 28, 1872 : " Collector Mott has always settled^with 
me promi)tly, and owes me nothing." ^. 

W. H. Hobson, Jerusalem, January 28, 1882: "Have always received my salary 
promptly and regularly, and no part of it has been retained at any time for any purpose 
whatever." 

W. H. Stockton, Statesville, N. C, Jannary 28, 1882: "I have received every"cent 
due me for my services from Collector Mott." 



382 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

W. Fraley, Williamsburg, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " Dr. Mottdoes n)towe me any- 
filing." . ■ 

A. M. Nail, Mocksville, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " Dr. Mbtt is due me nothing and 
has always been very prompt in my pay through him, but I have an account in the 
clerk's office of Mr. H. C. Cowles, for guarding a tobacco factory seized by an agent of, 
Ihe revenue, that you would confer a great favor by ordering me jiaid. The account is 
ior 28 days during last June." 

T. L, Shields, Monroe, N. C, January 28, 1882 : " I have received my compensation 
promptly up to the 1st of January, 1882, except for a few days in the latter part of 
June, 1881, when the appropriation for pay of storekeepers and gangers run short for 
the fiscal year ending June 30, 1881. 

T. A. Meroney, Mocksville, N. C, January 28, 1882 : "Dr. Mott, collector sixth dis- 
irict, has paid me for all services rendered to the United States as storekeeper and 
ganger, and at this time there is one month's services about due, but my pay account 
lias not yet been sent in." 

Hugh A. Pence, Newton, N. C, January 28, 1882: " Dr. Mott has paid me every 
dollar due me for my services in the revenue department." 

P. W. Jenkins, Dallas, Gaston County, N. C, January 28, 1882: " I have always re- 
ceived my pay to the last cent, and promptly, for all my services." , 

K.J.Kennedy, King's Mountain, N. C, January 28, 1882: " Collector Mott has al" 
'ways paid me every cent due me for services due me. * * * That he does not owe 
me anything, and he has never kept back one cent of my wages at any time." 

G. W. Patterson, Concord, N. C, January 28, 1882: ''Dr. Mott is due me |27, for which 
Tie has my receipt on account for nine days' services the last of last June; he informed 
me that the appropiiation for the storekeepers and gangers was so nearly exhausted 
that the department could not pay the money until the government made further ap- 
propriations. With this exception Dr. Mott has paid me promptly all the money due 
me for my services, and he has paid me in full for all the receipts I have given him." 

B. V. Beal, Lincolnton, N. C, January 29, 1882: "I have always received my full 
pay for all services that is due me from him." 

L. C. Johnson, Hamptonville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, 
* * * is not indebted to me for any receipt which I have given him." 

T. A. Kerley, Taylorsville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Whether or not Collector Mott 
Is indebted to me on account of any receipt he may have received from me ? I will 
say he is not." 

H. Y. Mott, Mount Mourne, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me for au\ servites rendered as an officer or employe of the government." 

H. C. Simpes, Morganton, N. C, January 30, 1882: " Collector Mott has paid me for 
any services » * * all that was due me." 

G. A. J. Set'hler, China Grove, Rowan County, North Carolina, January 30, 1882: 
""Dr. Mott has no receipt of mine. I have received all that was due me for service." 

M. C. Myirs. Ham)»touville, N. C, January 30, 1882: " Dr. Mott has never retained 
any money that has been due me for services as U. S. S. A. G., therefore he is not dne- 
me anything." 

W. H. Hoffman, Dallas, N. C, January 30, 1882: ''Dr. J.J. Mott * * * ha» 
promptly paid lue all dues and demands for service rendered in my official capacity.* 

J. N. Setzer, , January 30, 1882: "I have received promptly from Dr. Mott 

every dollar due iiie ior services as an officer of the government." 

W. S. Gough, Hamptonville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "I have received my pay 
promptly, all exei])t |27 for last June, which I expect to get whenever there is aa 
appropriation made to pay the deficiency. Dr. Mott is not indebted to me on account- 
of any receipt Aviiatever." 

J. R. Cline, Catawba, N. C, January 30, 1882: " Dr. Mott is not indebted to me on 
account of any receipt which I have given him by virtue of my services." 

S. P. Sherrill, Lincolnton, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " The collector has never with- 
held my checks, and the government now owes me nothing except for this (January) 
month's service. Have received all my fees." 

L. A. Heilig, Heilig's Mills, N. C, January 30, 1882: " Have received from Dr. Mott 
every dollar due me for services rendered." 

W. Skidmore, Mount Holly, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector Mott is not in- 
debted to me for any services done by me * * * nor on any receipt that I have 
given to him." 

A. C. Monday, Coopers, N. C, January 30, 1882: "I have received all money dua. 
ane." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 383 

S. M. Morris, Dallas, Gaston County, North Carolina, January 30, 1882: "I have 
receivocl from the collector (Mott) * * * all money due me for storekeeper and 
ganger, in full to date." 

T. H. McNeely, Morgauton, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector Mott has always 
paid me for services * * promi>tly * * * Is uot indebted to me ou account of 
any receipt given him." 

R. Powell, Morgantou, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always paid me up 
promptly. He owes me nothing." 

Isaac A. Pearson, Catawba, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to 
Tiie for any services rendered by me to the government." 

G. W. McLaughen, Dallas, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott does not owe me any- 
thing for my services since I liave been in the employ of the government, or on account 
of any receipt or any other obligation." 

D. C. Pearson, Morganton, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " He is due me nothing on such 
account, and never was. I was always paid promptly and in full for my services as 
an officer." 

J. T. Sniitherman, East Bend, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector J. J. Mott is not 
<lue me anything for services rendered." 

J. M. Turner, , January 30, 1882: " I have received everything that is due me 

as an officer or employ^, of the governtaeut, except for the last ten days of June, 1881, 
amounting to $27, which, I was officially informed, that there was uo appropriation." 

Mr. Kimbronght, Smith Grove, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " Dr. Mott is due nie noth- 
ing, but on the contrary has paid me promptly at the expiration of each mouth." 

Eli Best, New Stirling, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector J. J. Mott is in no way 
indebted to me for any services * * * ^or for anything that I have given him for 
luy position that I now hold." 

A. A. Hines, Sweet Home, N. C, January 30, 1832: "Dr. Mott * * * is not in- 
debted to me on any account whatever." 

J. G. Douglass, Mount Mourne,N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted 
to me on account of any receipt or note given by me." 

W. F. Holland, King's Mountain, N. C, January 30, 1882: " Dr. J. J. Mott owes me 
nothing, with the exception of nine days in June, 1881, for which there was no appro- 
priation." 

Wiley S. McKee, Garibaldi, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me on account of any receipt which 1 have given him * * * except nine diiyif 
service rendered * * * for the month of June, 1881." 

L. M. Davis, York College, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " I have never given any receipt 
to Collector Mott for any of my wages as an officer of the government without having 
received the full amount." 

W. B Mott, Mount Monrne, N. C, January 30, 1882: " He has never received from 
me any such receipt, and has always i>ai<l me the last dollar due me." 

C. A. Wilfong, Catawba, N. C, Jannary 30, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me in any way, and I have always received my money promptly." 

N. B. England, , January 30, 1^82 : " I have received promptly from Dr. Mott 

every dollar due me for services as an officer of the government." 

A. J. Jenkins, Dallas, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott, collector, has paid ma 
every dollar of my wages ; * * * is not iniiebted to me on account of any receipt 
whatever." 

M. M. Teague, Marion, N. C, January 30, 1882: " My accounts Lave all been paid 
promptly and to a cent, except nine days in June, 1881. Two accounts were made out 
for that'montli and but one lias been paid, but a circular letter explaining why th» 
balance could not be paid then was received." 

E. AV. Pntnain. Mount Monrne, N. C, January 30, 1882: "In reply to your inquiry 
as to whether Collector Mott was indebted to me on account of any receipt which I 
liave given him, • * * j would answer no." 

Joseph Carswell, Morganton, January 30, 18H2 : " I have been paid very promptly 
by Collector Mott for all services rendered by me." 

R. C. Bowles, , January 30, 1882 : " J. J. Mott has paid me all due me for my 

services." 

Richard Williamp, Morganton, N. C, January .30, 1882 : "I have received my pay 
for all the service that has been allowed me, and no part thereof has been retained by 
said Collector Mott." 

P. J. Rhyne, Dallas, N. C, January 30. 1882. "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * has paid 
sue for my services as United States storekeeper and gauger to Jan. 1, 1882." 



384 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

I. O. Hart, Lewisville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Collector Mott has always paid! 
me punctnally for all services rendered." 

S. Angle, Eagle Mills, N. C, January 30, 1832 : " Dr. Mott is not indebted to me one 
dollar on account of any receipt I have given him. He has alwayspaid me promptly."" 

W. R. Rankin, Garibaldi, N. C, January 30, 1832: "J. J Mott is not indebted 
to me on any account or any receipt I have given him -^ * *^ exce))t nine days'' 
service rendered in the month of June, 1881, which I was informed, I believe, through 
your office, would not be paid nntil tliei'e was an appropriation made for the same.V 

J. F. Aydlotte, Buffalo Paper Mill, N. C, January 30, 1882; "Dr. Mott is not in- 
debted to me by any receipt which I have given him as an officer or employe of the 
government." 

F. G. Thorpe, Eagle Mill, January 30, 1881 : " J. J. Mott, collector, has paid me in 
full for all the receipts I have signed." 

L.P.Henderson, Morganton, N. C, Januarj^, 1882: " Dr. Mott, collector, * « * 
has been very prompt with me." 

James R. Lewis, Dallas, N. C, January 30, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, * ^ *■ 
is not indebted to me anything on account of any receipt given for service rendered." J 

J. W. C. Long, Catawba, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " Collector Mott is not indebted] 
to me in any way, and I have always received my money promptly." 

R. G. Patterson, East Bend, N. C, January 30; 1882 : " Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me in any sum or account ol any receipt that I have given him." 

Geo. W. Williams, Asheville, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " I have received every dollar 
that is due me." 

John K. Potts, Statesville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "I received my pay monthly 
while under regular assigumeut as deputy collector in his office; also further that he^ 
Dr. Mott, never required of me a receipt for anything more than was due him by- 
virtue of his office." 

M. W. Jewett, , January 30, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * has settled witb 

me in full for all services rendered to date." 

Jere Smith, Taylorsville, N. C, January 30, 1882: " In answer to an inquiry from 
your office of the 26th instant, asking me to state explicitly whether Dr. Mott is in- 
debted to nie for services rendered as an officer or employe of the government, I an- 
swer he is not." 

Thomas J. Richman, Hendersonville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always, 
very promptly forwarded me all my drafts as they were drawn, and has never had my 
receipt except for same when they were forwarded to me." 

W.R. Trull, , January 30, 1882 : " Dr. J. J. Mott does not owe me anything^ 

and has always sent me my pay ^ ' * as soon as it was due." 

J. T. Goodman, Amity Hill, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me. Has been very prompt in his payments to me." 

J. P. Murphy, Statesville, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
for official duties." 

S.C.Welch, East Bend, N. C, January 30, 1882; "I have received all of my pay 
* * * up to January 1, 1832, except for nine days, the last of June." 

John M. Hanna, Gastonia, N. C., January 30, 1882 : "There is nothing due me for 
services rendered * ^ * only for the last nine days of June, 1881, which I receipted 
Collector Mott for, and I learn there was no appropriation for services rendered at 
that time." 

W.A.Johnson, Hampton ville, N. C, January 30, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted 
to me on any account of any receipt whatever." 

J. M. Armstrong, Garibaldi, N. C, January 30, 1882 : " Collector Mott does not hold 
any receipt against me which is not settled. I have no claims against him whatever."' 

S. R. Gudger, Morganton, N. C, January 31, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to. 
me on account of any receipt which I have given him." 

D. L. Lowry, County Line, N. C, January 31, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted 
to me for any services rendered as an officer or employ^ of the government ; my dues, 
have been paid oft' regularly up to this date." 

A. D. Gentry, Hamptonville, N. C, January 31, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott is not in- 
debted to me » * » for any serviee that I have rendered * » * nor for any re- 
ceipt that I have signed, but has always paid me up promptly." 

I. N. Hays, Miller's Creek, N. C, January 31, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott has paid me 
promptly for my services as storekeejier and ganger." 

J. B. Simonton, Wilkesboro', N. C, January 31, 1882: " Collector Mott has always 
paid me for my services as a government officer promptly at the end of every month's 
service." 



THE SIXTH DISTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 385 

J. M. Smmuers, Smith Grove, N. C, January 31, l?d2 : '■ He is not iudebted to me 
for auy receipt '•iveu liiin." 

L. P. Stowo. Dallas. N. C, .Tamiary 31, IS^^ : "Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, \s uot in- 
debted to me ou aceouut of auy receipt which I have giveu him.'' 

L. C. .Jennings, Moravian Falls, , January 31, 1882 : " Dr. Mott has paid otf 

all my aeeountragainst the government, wherein I have given him receipts, except the 
nine last days of June. lSr;i'. Dr. Mott notitied me before I nmde out uiy jiay account 
for same that he had only funds enough on hand to pay up to the -Jdth of June." 

R. A. Mi'.ls, East Bend. , January 31, 18?2 : " He is not indebted to me. He 

has paid me up very well." 

W. H. McCoy, Statesville, N. C, January 31, 188-2: "I have receipted for and re- 
ceived for all uioney due due me by virtue of my ottice. through Dr. Mott, * * with 
the exception of a snuiU receipt of §"iT for nine days' work in June, 18^1, which has 
not come into his ininds.'" 

W. C. Myers, Osbornville, N. C, January 31. 1882: "I have received my salary 
promptly from Dr. J. J. Mott ever since I have been in the service, except for the 
uiue last days of June, 1881." 

H. H. Martin, Dalla>*, N. C J.annary 31, 1882: "I can say positively that I have 
received every cent of money due me by virtue of my services as storekeeper and 
ganger of this district." 

L^ Moorow, Statesville. N. C, January 31, 1882: '-'Collector Mott is uot indebted 
to me on account of any receipt given him by me. » * * Having received through 
Collector Mott, and receipted for all money due me for services performed by me up 
to December 31, 18sl, with the exceiition of a small receipt of $3ti, the amount due 
ou the last nine days of my June account for ISbl." 

G. W. Sharpe, Statesville, N. C. January 31,1882: "Collector ]\Iott is uot indebted 
to me on accouiit of any receipt given him" by me. * * * Having received through 
Collector Mott. and receipted for all nu)ney due me for services performed as an ofticer 
or employe of the government up to December 31, 1881. with the exception, however, 
of a small receipt of §36, the amount due me on the nine last days of my June ac- 
count for 1881." 

C. A. Coleman, Oshornville, N. C, January 31,1882: "I have received my salary 
promptly from Dr. Mott ever siuce 1 have been employed." 

J.L.Hewitt, Newton, N.C., January 31,1882: "All claims due me from Dr. Mott's 
oflicu as a storekeeper and ganger has been duly received from him and punctually at 
that." 

L. N. Dnlin, Smith Grove, N. C, January 31, 1882: " I have received all my wages 
from Dr. Mott for services rendered the government as storekeeper and ganger; he is 
uot indebted to me for auy receipt giveu him in that capacity." 

A. D. Cooper, Asheville, N. C, January 31, 1882: "Must say that J. J. Mott * ♦ * 
is not indebted to me ou account of any receipts I have given by virtue of my ser- 
vices as an officer. I have always received my pay promptly." 

W. W. Hampton, Eagle Mills, N. C, January 31, 1882: " Collector Mott is not due 
me auytiiiug ou account of any receipt that I have given him. He has always paid 
uie promptly." 

E. H. Davis, Coltimbus, N. C, January 31,1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to mo 
on account of any receipt given him for services rendered as an othcer of the govern- 
ment." 

David A. Eamsav, Salishnry, N. C, January 31,1882: " Dr. J. J. Mott * * » 
has always promi)tiy remitted and paid to me all mouey due me lor services rendered 
as internal-revenue storekeeper and ganger, and that Dr. Mott is uot due me oue cent 
ft)r services rendered." 

M. A. \Yilkinson, Newton, N. C, January 31, 1882 : " I have received all mouey due 
me for services rendered but $'27 for the last nine days in June, 18«1." 

L. A. Peebles, Advance, N. C. January 31, 1882: "Collector Mott has paid me for 
all of my service, with the exception of $-27, for June, 1881." 

O ]S1. Barkly, Statesville, N. C. January 31, 1882: "I have always received my 
pay promptly," and that the collector does not owe anything at all." 

W. H. Hrowu. Wilkesborough, , January 31, 1882 : "Collector J. J. Mott * * * 

does not owe me, by receipt or otherwise, one cent of wages earned by me as an 
officer of the government in said district." 

J. T. Peden, Wilkesborough, , January 31, 1882: "He is uot indebted to me 

for any receipt for services as an officer or otherwise." 

R J. Williams, Rutherfordton, , January 31, l!382: "He does not owe me a 

farthing, but promptly pays every cent that the goverument allows me for services 

"s. Mis. IIG-^ 25 



386 COLLEUTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

rendered; the only instance wherein I have signed any receipt and not received pay 
was for eight days' services as storekeeper and ganger last Jnne, from the 22d to the 
30th day of June, 1881." 

John B. Eaves, Rutherfordton, N. C, January 31, 1882 : "The collector, Dr. Mott, 

* * * has paid me promptly on all receipts up to date, I have an account filed 
for Jnne, 1881, from the 21st to the 30th, inclusive, not yet paid." 

Peter A. Little, Catawha, N. C, January 30, 1882 : "I can, without any hesitancy, 
say that Dr. J. J. Mott has never kept out of my services any funds for any purpose." 

J. W. Ramsay, Marshall, N. C, January 31, 1882: "My accounts are in for Novem- 
ber and December, for which I have not yet received the pay, but I feel no uneasiness 
about getting." 

J. R. Henderson, Wilkesborough, N. C, January 31, 1882: "Dr. Mott is in no way in- 
debted to me for my services to the government, and no receipt has ever been given 
him by me except for which I have received full value." 

J. T. Hedrick, TTedrick, N. C, January 31, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
for any services rendered the government. He has always paid me promptly every 
month." 

M. L. Hooper, Williamsburg, N. C, January 31, 1882: "The collector has settled 
with me in full for all services rendered as storekeeper and ganger in his district." 

E. Q. Houston, Mount Mourne, N. C, January 31, 1882: " Collector Mott is not in- 
debted to me for any receipt by virtue of my services as an officer or employ^ of the 
government." 

J. L. Rhyne, Dallas, N. C, : "I have received full payment for all receipts 

given Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, for my services." 

John M. Hanna, , : " Collector Mott is not due me anything whatever." 

L. A. Mason, Dallas, N. C, : "Dr. Mott is not due me anything for services 

as employ^ in the revenue service." 

S. D. Brown, Hamptonville, N. C, February, 1882 : " I have received all money re- 
ceipted for from Dr. J. J. Mott, except for December, 1881, and January. 1882. As 
yet I have not been qualified on my pay accounts for those months, and think I will 
get the money when I go to his office and am qualified. 

Jacob Blevins, Walnut Hill, N. C, : " Collector Mott is not indebted to me 

on any account whatever ; he has always paid me promptly and have given him no 
receipt without having first received value in full. 

S. Huffman, Morganton, N. C, February 1, 1882: "Dr. Mott, collector, is not in- 
debted to me on account of any receipt I have given whatever." 

A. J. Absher, Mulberry, N. C, February 1, 1882: " There is nine dollars due me for 
the three last days of June, and the balance of my checks came up promptly." 

J. S. Jones, Panther Creek, N. C, February 1, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott has always 
paid me promptly for all my services rendered for the government." 

W. C. Shores, Jonesville, N. C. February 1, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * is not 
in arrears with me nor never has been since I have been employed by the government." 

G. W. Crawford, Marion, N. C, February 1, 1882: "I have received * * * all 
the pay due me for services to the present date, except $27 due as a balance on pay 
for the month of June, 1881, the delay of which payment is understood to be no fault 
of Collector Mott's." 

J. W. Brown, Charlotte, N. C. February 1, 1882: "Dr. Mott has paid me every 
dollar and cent that he owes me." 

E. Johnson, , February 1, 1882: "I hold no receipts against Dr. J. J. Mott, 

nor never have at any time." 

A. J. Hand, Mount Holly, North Carolina, February 1, 1882: " Collector Mott is not 
indebted to me » * * as I have never rendered any services." 

E. L. Chrisman, Columbus, N. C, February 1, 1882: " With the exception of month 
of June, 1881, I have received all payments regularly. I believe the appropriation 
was exhausted for that month." 

A. B. Butner, Hall's Ferry, February 1, 1882: "In every instance without a single 
exception have received my salary regularly at the end of each month in full." 

D. McAlpine, Mount Holly, N. C, February 1, 1882: "He is not so indebted except 
for the nine days' services as storekeeper and gauger for the last nine days of the 
fiscal year ending June 30, 1881." 

G. E. Barnhardt, , February 1, 1882 : "Dr. Mott does not owe me anything." 

G. W. Selzer, Crowder's Creek, N. C, February 1, 1882: "He is not so indebted to 
me, and that he has in all cases paid promptly." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 387 

N. L. Whitley, Old Fort, N. C, February 1, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always paid me 
for services rendered." 

John A. Keener, Poor's Ford, N. C, Febrnary 1, 1882: " I received all of my checks 
due mo from Collector Mott, except my April eheck for 1880; amount $100. Collector 
Mott held that check towards paying the expense of the Republican campaign for 
the Presidential election of 1880." 

W. T. Bailey, Morganton, N. C, February 1, 1882: "I have received from the 
collector the money due me for my services." 

. J. M. Taylor, East Bend, N. C, February 1, 1882 : " Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, has paid 
me everything due for my services, except five days' services from 20th June to 25th, 
[for] which the appropriation was exhaueted." 

S. L. Davis, Yadkinville, N. C, February 1, 1882 : Dr. Mott * * * has paid me 
every cent that is due me for my services, and was paid promptly." 

J. H. Hauser, Yadkinville, N. C, February 1, 1882: Collector Mott, * * * has 
always paid me promptly by the 10th of each succeeding month and does not now owe 
me for any service, except for twenty days in January, which I have not yet had time 
to receive ■' 

S. C. Davis, Huntsville, N. C, Febrnary 1, 1882: "My wages have been uniformly 
and promptly paid, and that nothing is due me." 

W. D. Mason, Fork Church, N. C, February 1, 1882: "I did sign a receipt for 
twenty-two days' work, $88, for which I have never received any money, he asking 
all his storekeepers and gangers to contribute one month's work for the election of 
General Garfield." 

W. R. Ellis, Elbaville, N. C, Febrnary 1, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me on 
account of any receipts whatever." 

D. F. Shepherd* Reddie's River, N, C, February 2, 1882: " He has always settled up 
very fairly with me, and he is not indebted a dollar to me at this time." 

Joel Cloud, Pearson, N. C, February 2, 1882: "All my money as storekeeper and 
ganger has been received from Collector Mott." 

J. F. Somers, Wilkesborough, N. C, February 2, 1882 : "He is not indebted to me 
for any receipt for such services to this date." 

B. T. Tedden, Wilkes, N. C, Febrnary 2, 1882 : " I will state that he is not indebted 
to me for any receipts for said services up to date." 

W. F. Furches, Farmington, N. C, February 2, 1882: "I have not had but one 
month's work (December, 1881), for which I authorized my brother (J. M. Furches), 
who is a clerk in Dr. Mott's office at Statesville, to receive for me, which I presume 
he did." 

M. M. Crume, Boonville, N. C, February 2, 1882 : " Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
on account of any receipt which I have given bim." 

W. S. Arnold, Hamptonville, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Collector Mott is not due 
me on any receipt or in any other way." 

P. M, Nicks, Hamptonville, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * 
don't owe me anything for my services * * * on account of any receipt what- 
ever." 

S. C. Anderson, Boone, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Have received all the money due 
me for services rendered * * « except two daj^s in the last of June, 1881." 

T. A. Atkins, , February 2, 1882: "I can say Dr. Mott * * * has paid 

me all dues promptly, as shown by his receipts." 

Milton A. Holland, Dallas, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Collector Mott is notindebted 
to me in consequence of any receipt which was given to him, nor any other account 
whatever." 

D. P. Allgood, Cross Roads Church, N. C, February 2, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * 
has paid me for all my services." 

J. W. Clark, Shelby, N. C, February 2, 1882: "J. J. Mott * * * has paid me 
for services rendered * * * in full to the 31st December, 1881, and for all receipts 
given him for same." 

William B. Lay, , Febrnary 2, 1882: "Collector Mott * * * is not in- 
debted to me on account of any receipt which I have given him * * * except for 
nine days' services rendered * * * in the month of June, A. D. 1881, which I was 
informed would be paid as soon as an appropriation was made for the same." 

W. H. Rhyne, Stanle:9's Creek, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Collector Mott owes me 
nothing on account of any receipt or in any other way." 

G. Z. Pontdexter, Richmond Hill, N. C, February 2, 1882: " Dr. J. J. Mott has paid 
me up promptly." 



388 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

J. A. Lillington, Marion, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebtofl 
to me one cent lor services performed. On the other hand, I have always received full 
pay and receipted for the same." 

A. T. Grant, Jerusalem, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * is not 
indebted to me on account of any receipts which I have given to him * * * except 
for the last nine days of June, 1881." 

William Howard, Mountain Creek, N. C, February 2, 1882: "I have received every 
dollar for my services * * * exce^jt nine days' services in last June, 1881." 

W. A. Williams, Morganton, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Collector Mott owes rae 
nothing for my services as United States storekeeper and gaujrer, and has always paid 
me promptly. He is not indebted to me ou account any receipt given him." 

JuliusBiittain,Pearson,N.C., February 2, 1882: "All my money for services * * * 
has been received from Collector Mott." 

E.Wallace, , February 2, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * is not due me any- 
thing for my service as a U. S. officer." 

H. A. Gillespie, Charlotte, N. C, February 2, 1882: "Collector Mott has paid me 
very promptly for all services rencered under him." 

T. A. Gill, Statesville, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Have received all the pay allowed 
as storekeeper and ganger, " 

H. C. Prenett, Osbornville, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to 
me on account of any receipts which I have given him." 

T. L. Jennings, Jennings' Mill, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott does not 
owe me a dollar; he has always paid me when I presented my claims at his office." 

Eobert Hawkins, High Knob, N. C, Februarys, 1882: "Dr. Mott * * * has paid 
for all services which has been done by me for (the) government." , 

J. M. Shaver, New Hope, N. C, February 3, 1882: "I have received my dues 
promptly." 

J. A. Mathis, Osbornville, N. C, February 3, 1882: "I have received all my money 
for my service from Dr. Mott." 

E. S. Bell, Hamptonville, N. C. February 3, 1882: "I have received from Dr. J. J. 
Mott all moneys receipted, except from June 21 to June 30, 1881, deficient money." 

W. T. Alexander, Eoaring River, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Collector J. J. Mott has 
never withheld my salary or any part thereof, but has always paid me the full amount 
regularly." 

J. T. Douglass, , February 3, 1882: "He has paid me all dues at the proper 

time, and is not indebted to me." 

M. T. Roseman, Conner, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Collector Mott * * * he is 
not indebted, has settled with me promptly." 

J. A. Clouse, Smith Grove, N. C, February 3, 1882: " I have received from Collector 
Mott all the money due, except a part of last June's pay." 

D. L. Williams, Smith Grove, N. C, February 3, 1882: " There is due me nothing 
by way of receipt as collector, except a part of last June." 

B. T. Sebastian, Eound Mountain, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Collector J. J. Mott is 
not indebted to me for any receipts given to him. * * * He,(Mott) has forwarded 
all my checks promptly after the close of each day." 

A. H. Daniel, Jennings' Mill, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Can safely swear that Dr. 
Mott * * * never at any time asked me for or kept back any of my wages for any 
purpose." 

Z. T. Eutledge, Cross Roads Church, N. C, February 3, 1882: "Dr, J. J. Mott 
* * * is not indebted to me in any way for services rendered." 

S. B. Harding, Huntsville, N. C, February 3, 1882: "My wages have been paid 
prompt when due." 

S. S. Jennings, Mulberry, N. C, February 3, 1832: "Dr. J. J. Mott is not indebted 
to me on no receipt whatever." 

John M. Brown, Mulberry, N. C, February 3, 1^82. "I have never receipted Dr. J. 
J. Mott for none of my pay that was due me from his office." 

James E. Davis, Statesville, February 3, 1882: " Collector J. J. Mottisnotin<lebted 
to me for services rendered in his district as United States storekeeper and ganger, 
and I have received my pay for such services, but I claim that the government is in- 
debted to me for services rendered as a raider before the regular force was placed on 
duty, in which the government paid my traveling expenses, excejit the last four 
raids I assisted in, in wliich I furnished my own horse and paid my own expenses^ 
araoiiuting to $1U9, making no charge for self and horse ; this was iu '77." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOETH CAROLINA. 389 

J. C. Sullivan, Yadkinville, N. C, Fobrnary 4, 18-i2 : "Collector Mott is not due 
mo aiiythinj;- ou account of any receipt, and has always paid nie promptly." 

R. R. Reid, Oliu, N. C, February 4, 18^2 : "Dr. Mott lias signed and delivered my 
checks for each month's work regularly." 

M. W. Vestal, Chestnut Ridge, N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always 
been prompt to pay over all money due me." 

R. W. Woodruff, Jonesville, N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott has always 
been prompt to pay over all money due me." 

B. O. Morris, Fork Church, N. C, February 4, 18S2: "Dr. Mott has always paid mo 
prom])tly all the money due." 

H. E. Shore, Shore, N. C, February 4, 18.2: "He is not (indebted to me). My 
accounts * * * have all been promptly remitted." 

"W. P. Parks, Williamsburg, N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always signed 
and sent me my checks for each month's work regularly." 

A. M. Salmons, Zion, N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. Mott is due me nothing as 
storekeeper and ganger." 

S. A. Hoover, Statesville, N. C, February 4, 18'<2: "Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, is not 
indebted to me on account of any receipt which I have given to him * » * px- 
cept for nine days for the month of June, 1881." 

D. M. Haithcox, February 4, 1882: "Have received of Dr. ISIott all money due me 
for my service, except for the last nine days in June, ltt81, which I suppose I will 
get as soon as Congress provides it." 

J. F. Green, Easttield, N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * has paid 
promptly to January, 1882." 

R. K. Edwards, Roaring River. N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott has never 
retained any part of my pay, or, so far as I know, attempted to retain any, nor never 
has intimated such a thing to me." 

A. Hutfman, Pearson, N. C, February 4, 1832: "^(Collector Mott) he is not indebted 
to me; he has paid me for all my services." 

E.R.Lowe, Oliu, N. C, February 4, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * has alwa3^s 
been very promi>t to forward all the checks due me for services." 

H. M. Brooks, Glade Creek, N. C, February .5, 1882: " Dr. J. J. Mott * * * is 
due me nothing for work done. *' * * He has paid me prouiptly." 

M. Cassterens, Jonesville, N. C, February 5, 1882: "J. .1. Mott * * * is not in- 
debted to nie for any receipts signed by me, nor never has been since I have been em- 
ployed by the government." 

J. F. Mnndy, Denver, N. C, February 6, 1882 : " Have received from collector paj'- 
ment in full for all service rendered by me." 

G. A. Barkley, Denver, N. C, February 6, 1882 : " Have received from Dr. Mott pay- 
ment in full for all services rendered by me * » » with the exception of nine days 
during the month of June, 1881." 

N. H. Farmington, February 6, 1882 : "Dr. J.J. Mott * * * is not due (me) any- 
thing; has paid me for my services." 

J. M. Riggs, Statesville, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Collector J. J. Mott has never 
failed to pay me promptly.'' 

A. C.Bryan, Trap Hill, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * has 
promptly paid me in full * * * for my services as an officer under his employ- 
ment." 

A. Higgins, Dysortville, N. C, February 6, 1832: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
one farthing, nor has it ever been intimated by the collector or his subordinates that 
I was due him anything on account of my .services." 

G. M. Sitzer, Salisbury, X. C, February 6, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
one cent on any account." 

F. Caldwell, Sherrill's Ford, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Have received from Dr. 
Mott iiayment in full for all services rendered by me." 

A. F. Pack, Fork Church, N. C, February 6, 1882 : " Dr. Mott has paid me promptly 
every cent ever due me." 

M. Garwood, Fork Church, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Dr. Mott has always been 
punctual to pay me up, except one check, which he kept, he said, for election pur- 
poses." 

Lawson E. Davis, Lewis Fork, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Dr. Mott * * * is not 
due anything to me for my services * * * directly, indirectly, or in any other 
way, but has forwarded the full amount for my services from time to time in due 
season." 



O&O COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

J. W. Gray, Statesville, N. C, February 6, 1882: "J. J. Mott, collector, has paid 
me all that was due me for services rendered to the government in my official capacity 
as an officer." 

J. P. Stacy, Morganton, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Have received my compensa^ 
tion regularly, and that Dr. Mott owes me nothing, only for five days' work in June, 
1881." 

J. Y. Mclntire, Sandy Plains, N. C, February 6, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * is 
not indebted to me on account of any receipt given him by me for services rendered 
the government, except the one sent in for the last month, which I have no doubt 
will meet with prompt attention." 

L. W. Sabastain, Milberry, N. C, February 6, 1882: " (Dr. Mott) he is not indebted 
to me for any receipts for services rendered to date." 

H. M. Khyme, Dallas, N. C, February 6,1882: "Have received my pay regularly 
every month since I have been in the service." 

Wm. C. Douglass, Trap Hill, N. C, February 6, 1882 : "J. J. Mott, collector, is not in- 
debted to me any ; he has paid me promptly." 

L. L. Green, Boone, N. C. , February 6, 1882 : " Dr. Mott has never retained any part of 
my wages, and that he is not due me anything on account of any receipt given him." 

W. F. Martin, Hayesville, N. C. , February.6, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott has paid me all that 
was due me to the 26th of January, 1882." 

J. L. Ladd, Clingman, N, C, February 6, 1882: " (Collector Mott) heisnotdueme any- 
thing on account of any receipt that I have given him." 

W. C. G. Hendrix, Smith Grove, N. C, February 6,1882: "Have received promptly 
from J. J. Mott * * * my pay for services rendered * * * except for a portion 
of one month for which the money appropriated was insufficient • * * * time re- 
ferred to was May or June, 1881." 

A. G.Myers, Statesville, N.C., February 7, 1882: "(Dr. Mott) * * » has paid me 
every dollar that the government was due according as the law directs." 

W. F. Hoots, Yankinville, N. C. , February 7, 1882 : "Dr. Mott * * * has paid me 
for all services rendered by me to the government." 

J. D. Somers, Statesville, N. C, February 7, 1882: "Dr. Mott has paid me for each 
and every day's work a(3cording as the law directs." 

S. S. Bell, Hunting Creek, February 7,1882: "He has been very prompt in paying 
me." 

T. Templeton, Jennings' Mills, February 7, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott is not indebted to 
me on account of any receipts which I have given him as a U. S. officer." 

Wm, M. Moore, Burnsville, N. C, February 8, 1882 : " Have received all the checks 
as they were issued at Washington ; have received every cent receipted for by me ^ 
have paid no charge or discount ; neither has any been asked for." 

J. Q. A. Bryan, Trap Hill, N. C, February 8, 1882 : " Have always been paid punctu- 
ally, and in full." 

A. D. Moore, Statesville, N. C, February 8, 1882: "(Dr. Mott) he has not taken one 
cent of my wages." 

E. Staley, Dellaplane, N. C, February 8, 1882 : " I got all my checks from the office 
as they came due; I give Dr. Mott no receipts in any way." 

S. P. Smith, Hunting Creek, N. C, February 8, 1882: "My accounts have always 
been paid promptly by Dr. J. J. Mott." 

J. L. White, , February 8, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted to me for 

any work I have done. I have received full value for all the work I have done." 

L. S. Benbow, Greenboro, N. C, February 8, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
on account of any receipt given him as an officer or employ6." 

E. J. Henuessa, Morganton, N. C, February 8, 1882: "Have been promptly paid by 
Collector Mott for all my services, except a few days of June, 1881." 

O. B. Holcombe, Little Creek, N. C, February 8, 1882: " I claim that Collector Mott 
owes me ninety-six dollars for services rendered at the distilling warehouse of James 
Hensley, No. 1711, in sixth district. North Carolina, in the month of February, 1881. 
The distiller did not operate but one or two days in that month, but 1 was kept there 
6n duty during the whole month by order of the deputy collector in charge, to wit, W. 
E. Trull. At the distance of 18 miles from my home and from all other employment." 

A. P. Coldiron, Jefferson, N. C, February 9, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott has paid me up 
promptly so far." 

J. W. Peden, Cut Laurel Gap, N. C, Febniary 9, 1882: "Dr. Mott never retained 
any money due me for my services, neither have I ever given him a receipt, and I 
ncA^er have been called on for a cent since I have been in the revenue." 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 391 

H. L. Howell, Murphy, N. C, February 10, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott is not iudebted to 
me by any receipt which I have given him by virtue of my office. I gave him my 
check for July, 1880, for campaign purposes, and my April check for the year 1881; ho 
is holding it for J. M. Taylor's deficiency. He said I had been reported to his office 
that I was the cause of deficiency, and said he was going to hold it until the matter 
was investigated, and I have asked hira for an investigation and has not been one yet. 
I have not received my December check for 1881. My January check, 1882, has not 
had time to reach my office yet." 

Jonathan Wagoner, , February 10, 1882: "The nine last days of June, 1881, 

is all the receipts that I have not got paid for up to January, 1882." 

P. A. Lomax, Elkin, N. C, February 11, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted to 
me on account of any receipt which I'have given him * * * except for service 
rendered from 21st to 30th of June, 1881, inclusive." 

A. Magberry, York, N. C, February 11, 1882: "Have received my wages in full* 
* * * I have no receipt against Collector Mott." 

J. B. Shelton, Denver, N. C, February 11, 1882; "Have received in fall from Dr. 
J. J. Mott all the money due me for services as revenue officer." 

A. B. Gillespie, Charlotte, N. C, February 12, 1882: "Collector Mott has always 
settled with me promptly." 

J. W. Williams, Statesville, N. C, February 13, 1882: "He always pays me up 
promptly." 

W. B.' March, Advance, N. C, February 14, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott * * * owes 
me nothing whatever for service. I have always been promptly paid in full." 

L. P. Ward, County Line, N. C, February 14, 1882: "Dr. Mott does not owe me 
any money on account of any receipt given him for services rendered to the gov- 
ernment." 

A. J. Burch, , February 15, 1882: "Dr. Mott has at no time, nor in any way, 

withheld or retained any part of my salary as storekeeper and ganger. 

E. Dyer, Reddies River, N. C , February 15, 1882: "Dr. Mott has settled all the 
claims according to my re(iuisitiou for services. I have not receipted Dr. Mott for 
any moneys due me as an official." 

A. Bandy, Clinesville, N. C, February 16, 1882: "He is indebted to me for store- 
keeper and ganger nine days in the mouth of June,. 1881, at %i per day, $29.00." 

W. L. Webster, Nattla, N. C, February 17, 1882: " Dr. Mott or some one else owes 
me |27 for the month of June, 1881. I was paid up to the 21st, and there is nine days' 
services in the month of June that I have not received." 

T. Long, Huntsville, N. C, February 21, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me." 

M. B. Crisp, Brasstown, N. C, February 23, 1882: " I do hereby certify (that) Col- 
lector Mott has paid me all that was due me for service as storekeeper and gauger in 
the sixth collection dist., N. C, up to the 18th of January, 1882." 

F. M. Adams, Hay Meadow, N. C, February 28, 1882: "Dr. Mott has paid me all that 
is due me for services so far as I have receipted." 

J. M. Dickey, Hot House, N. C, March 2, 1882: " Dr. J. J. Mott has paid me all that I 
have receipted him for." 

P. F.Langenour, Baltimore, Md., March 2, 1882: "My salary * * » * has always 
been paid promptly by Collector Mott, generally by the 20th of the month succeeding 
the one for which it was due, with the following exceptions : the June salary for 1880 
was not paid till in the spring of 1881, the last nine days of June, 1881, are yet unpaid, 
both cases resulting from lack of sufficient appropriations, as you well know." 

A. Groner, Dallas, N. C, March 18, 1882 : " He owes me uothmg on receipts signed by 
me as an officer or employ6 of the government." 

W. J. Patterson. Morganton, N. C.,Marcli 18, 1882: "I have received my compen- 
sation regular, and Dr. Mott owes me nothing." 

N.B.Hamptou, Columbus, N.C., March 18,1882: "I have received all my receipts 
from Dr. J. J. Mott, collector, except a portion of last June, and that was caused by the 
appropriation not being large enough to pay United States storekeepers and gangers 
for that month, and that only amounted to about seven days." 

C. T. Hernan, Taylorsville, N. C, March 20, 1882 : " Collector Mott is indebted to me 
on account of my receipt which I gave him for the remaining nine days of June, from 
the 20th to the 30th; when the appropriation is made I will get it; but no other is he 
indebted to me for." 

F.W.Sharpe, Sweet Home, N.C., March 20, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me on 
account of services rendered the government, or any account whatever." 



392 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

B. J. Williams, Rutlierfordton,N. C, March 20, 1882: " He does not owe anytliiug to 
me." 

A. P. Mnrdock,Statesville, N. C.,March 20,1882: "Collector Mott has always paidJ 
me promptly for all services, except a small balance for Jnne, 1881, which he did not j 
have in his hands, but Avill so soon as he gets it.'' 

J. B. Howel],State8ville, N. C.,March2l,1882 : "J. J. Mott * * * isnotindebted 
in any measure to me for services rendered." 

John A. Keener, Poor's Ford, N. C, March 22, 1882: '"My letter dated February 1 to 
you, in answer to yours * * * ^ I desire to state that I ought to have said that the 
check for April, 1880, amount .$100, was used by Dr. Mott for the cnrnpaign, and that 
was by my order, and he. Dr. J. J. Mott, now holds an order for the same. I ask that 
this be substituted for my letter. It is due the collector that it should be done. 
At the time I wrote the letter I had no idea that my letter would be construed as I 
understand that it has — that the collector used the cbeck without my consent." 

J. S. Call, Wilkesborough.N.C. March 23,1882: "He is not indebted to me; I have 
been paid my dues up to the 1st of March, 1882, except the last nine days of June, 1881." 

F. P. Axley, Murphy, N. C, March 23, 1882: "Dr. J. J. Mott, collector of the sixth 
district of North Carolina, is not indebted to me on account of any receipt which I 
have given him by virtue of my service as an official or emploj^e of the government." 

J. S. Hewitt, Newton, N. C, March 23, 1882 : " Dr. J. J. Mott has paid all claims that 
I receipted." 

J. M. Privett, Trap Hill, N. C, March 23, 1882: "Dr. Mott has paid me up every- 
thing he is due me." 

Henry A. Moss, Marble, N. C, March 24, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott is not due me any- 
thing ; have been paid promptly * * * for all services done." 

C. I. Smith, Wilkesborough, N. C, March 25, 1682 : " Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
by any receijit given to him." 

D. M. Puett, .March 25, 1882: "J. J. Mott, collector, * * * paid me every 

cent that was due and that I receipted for." 

Samuel H. Johnson, Zion, N. C, March 25,1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted to me 
for any services." 

N. H. Farrington, , March 25, 1882 : "Dr. J. J. Mott * ** * has paid me 

for all my services." 

J. L. Ladd, New Castle, N. C, March 25, 1882: " Elijah Ladd, U. S. ganger, is dead, 
but we can safely say that Collector Mott paid him all dues promptly." 

Giles Hutchins, Conrads, N. C, March 25, 1882 : (Dr. J. J. Mott) "he owes me noth- 
■ ing; has paid me everything due me from the government." 

A. Wiles, Mulberry, N. C, March 26, 1882 : (Dr. Mott) "he is not indebted to me for 
any such receipt or otherwise. Have received my dues from the government for all 
receipts, save and except ten days of last June, which I presume has not been paid.'' 

Lee W. Wimams,Rutherrordton,N.C., March 28, 1882: "Dr. Mott is not indebted 
to me on account of service as an employ^ of the government." 

James C. Setzer, , March 28, 1882: " I, have received my salary regularly aiid 

promptly each mouth." 

R. A. Marshall, Statesville, N. C, April 3, 1832 : " Dr. J. J. Mott * * * is not in- 
debted to me on any account." 

H. Hayes, Wilkesborough, N. C, April 7, 1882 : " Dr. J. J. Mott has paid me promptly 
for all my services in the revenue department." 

Alexander W. Bell, New Castle, N. C, April 8, 1882 : "I have received all money due 
me from the collector." 

T. F. Holcomb, Hamptonville, N. C, April 8, 1882 : "Dr. Motfc has paid me for every 
month that I have charged the government for services as storekeeper and ganger, 
except the pay due me for the month of August, 1880, which was $84. I had some 
time previous received a letter from the collector, asking me to contribute for cam- 
paign purposes; this letter was handed me by the deputy collector, J. C'. Sullivan ; 
he also said if I was disposed to contribute, that he had blank checks, that I could 
sign one, and Dr. Mott would see what our parts would be, and fill out the blank 
check with my part of the fund. I signed the check, and the deputy collector, J. C. 
Sullivan, informed me that the money due me for the month of August, 1880, was 
kept on that blank check ; taking this to be true, I was satisfied, being willing to 
do my part. I have done considerable service in helping the deputy collector, J. 
C. Sullivan, to put dowu blockading, for which I never made out any pay-account, 
being told by him that the government would not allow me any pay for extra 
services." 

J. K. Hendrix, Elkville, April 10, 1882: "Collector Mott is not indebted to me for 
any services." 



THE 8IXTII DISTRICT OF NORT][ CAROLINA. 393 

Q. 1 want to ask you in regard to some of your ofli(;ers drawing pay 
in two capacities at the same time — double i)ay, as it has been called. 
For instance, a dei)uty is shown here to have drawn pa»y as a ganger, 
and at the same time he was a deputy; will you state if that was pei-- 
niitted at the time by the department? — A. I understood it to be per- 
mitted by the department. 

Q That was back in 1872 or 1S73, was it not? — A. Yes, sir; tliat 
WMS in the early history of the service. 

(). Before there was a change in the law — before Congress had legis- 
lated on the subject — that is, jn-ior to 187<>? — A. Yes, sir; after 187.'> 
tliere was no instance of it in my district. I had not kept up with the 
law in regard to it, and did not know there was any law covering the 
case. ]\rr. Crane, the revenue agent, and others, told me that it had 
been done in A^irginia, and I also heard it had been done during Wiley's 
administration. 

Q. The accounts were passed bj' the department at the time? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. ]^o you know that INIr. Taylor, the First Comptroller of the Treas- 
ury, held that it was legal? — A. I do not. 

Q. The Commissioner said they changed that. Bid the duties per- 
formed by these otticers contlict with their other duties? — A. No, sir; 
not in the case in my district, and, as I understood it, it had not else- 
where. The ofticer, as I stated yesterday, if I remember rightly, policed 
around in his travels between the distilleries. 

Q. And he conld i)erform the duty of ganger without conflicting with 
his duty as deputy? — A. Yes, sir. There was a great deal of illicit 
traffic in wagons at that time — a great deal of their running into our 
town at Statesville. There was a rectifying establishment there, and it 
was thought they were being furnished by illicit distillers from the 
mountain sections around, and the officer was frequently employed at 
night in watching around looking after these wagons, for the illicit 
whisky that came into the town for sale would come in at night. 1 know 
it was the custom in Salisbury, and in the towns around where we had 
these deputies, to have them look out for such things at night. 

Q. And they could perform Ihe office of ganger without conflicting 
with those duties? — A. ATes, sir; a man could go to a distillery and 
gauge a considerable amount of whisky, and Avlien through with that 
distillery, he could go to another, eight or ten miles away, and do 
more gauging, and in his travels he might meet with one of these to- 
bacco or whisky wagons passing on the road. 

Q. And then he was discharging his duty as a deputy? — A. Yes, sir. 
This is Avhat 1 understood at the time. That is how it came about. 

Q. The pay of these gangers was a per cent, on the amount gauged ? — 
A. There were fees, I think. 

Q. Were the amounts for gauging sent directly by the ganger to the 
Commissioner's office here ? — A. Yes, sir; he made out his accounts and 
sent them directly to the office. 

Q. The gaugijig accounts did not pass through your office ? — A. The 
gauging accounts ? 

Q. Yes. — A. Yes, sir; they were made out by the ganger in my office, 
and I was furnished with a copy of his account — of the amount he had 
gauged, and he would send a dui^licate to the office at Washington. 

Q. You mean the ganger's account ? — A. Yes, sir ; that is the way I 
understood it. 

Q. I)Ut the vouchers for the deputy's ])ay were not sent by the deputy 
himself, but through j^our office in a different way? — A. Yes, sir. 



394 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Were the ganger's accounts and deputy's accounts both allowed 
for the time as it appears upon the record there"? — A. Yes, sir; the 
gauger's accounts were allowed, and the deputies received their pay 
under an allowance from the department. The department allowed 
the collector a certain amount, and he paid such deputies out of that 
amount. 

Q. Had there been any question raised up to the year 1873 by the 
department here of the legality of that proceeding *? — A. No, sir; I did 
not hear of any complaint. 

Q. You say that did not go on in your office after the year 1873 ? — A. 
I do not remember the time ; I think it was previous to the year 1874 ; 
that there was no case of double pay in the office after, because we 
found men who would do the work, and we preferred to divide it out, 
and one man have only one place. 

Q. So under your administration it did not extend beyond one or two 
years ? — A. No, sir ; I do not remember that it did. I am certain there 
was no instance afterwards, for the reason that I stated, I did not care 
to have one man holding two offices, but preferred to have as many 
officers as possible. The more officers we had, the easier it was to con- 
trol things, because one would help the other. 

Q. Mr. J. J. Mcintosh said considerable here about an assessment of 
$71 that had been jiaid by him. — A. My recollection is that Mr. Mcin- 
tosh knew very well what that was for, and what use was made of it. 
We did not get as much from the executive committee in that end of 
the State that year as we expected, and there were some expenses 
afterwards which followed the campaign of 1872, and there w^as some 
money raised to pay off" those expenses. 

Q. You mean there was a deficiency ? — A. No ; there were expenses 
incurred, over and above the amount received, which we had to pay, and 
there was some money afterwards raised to discharge that inde'btedness, 
along during the winter and spring following. Mr. Mcintosh, according 
to my recollection, understood what disposition was made of it, and I 
never heard any complaint; he never alluded to it since that I know of, 
and I am satisfied I could not have told him it was going to be divided 
around, because I remember very distinctly if I had done it that one of 
the deputies, Lillington, who did not get any pay, but who had sent in 
a voucher at that time, was indebted to me for $250, and I had a chance 
of getting it; and if I had been governed by my own interest in the 
matter, I would have paid it to Lillington, or let it go to him, and spread 
it around as Mr. Mcintosh states he understood me to say to him. At 
any rate, the $71 was applied for political purposes, and not in the other 
way. 

Q. I think Mr. Mcintosh's first assessment was for the whole amount 
of a month's salary, but only $71 was retained? — A. No, sir; I do not 
think he said that. 

Q. Do you wish to say anything further on that subject? — A. I only 
wish to say the $71 was applied in the way I have stated, for political 
purposes, and I believe Mr. Mcintosh so understood it. I think he stated 
here in his evidence the other day he did not so understand it at that 
time. I do not know what he meant by that. I know that it was my 
understanding that the money was contributed in that way, and I be- 
lieve he so understood it. 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. The deputy collectors, as I understand you, were paid from the 
allowance made you for such purpose? — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 395 

Q. Wlien the ^augers made up tlieir accounts and tbey were found to 
be correct, were they paid out of that sum advanced or somewhere else ?— 
A. No, sir; they were paid from the department here, and by a war- 
rant. 

Q. So you had no control over that? — A. I had no control of the 
ganger's checks. They were returned to my office, to my charge, to be 
delivered to the ganger. 

Q. When a ganger nmde up his accounts, were you called to certify 
to its correctness in an official way, or did he make it up and send it 
in? — A. I do not remember whether that was so or not; that was a 
power I delegated to the clerk, and it has goueon in the office until the 
present day. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Do you wish to state anything in regard to what Mr. Templeton has 
said! — A. Yes, I desire, in regard to Mr. Templeton, to say that the old 
gentleman came to me some time after I had beeu appointed and told 
me, if at any time the party needed any assistance, that he would like 
to assist in anything that was necessary. He said he was a good Ke- 
publican, and had been so all the time, and he wanted to let me know 
that I could call on him. I think it was a year or two afterwards that 
there was a Republican newspaper in Asheville, called the Asheville 
Pioneer, which had susi)ended and had passed into my hands and some 
others, I forget now who, but it was running on then a year or two in 
charge of a couple of men, and a good deal of indebtedness had been 
incurred. Both the gentlemen indulged pretty freely in whisk j^, al- 
though they were correct and valuable men, and good newspaper men 
at the same time. Considerable indebtedness was incurred there, and I 
asked Mr. Temi)leton to assist me in relieving myself of that indebted- 
ness, which he did very freelj^ I regarded him to be about as able as 
anybody in the district to do anything of that sort, and as he had come 
voluntarily to me, and expressed a disposition a year or two before in 
that direction, I felt that I could call upon him. He had been in the 
service nearly all the time and had drawn about as much money from 
the office as anybody else, and I cannot account for the statement whicli 
Mr. Brooks makes in trying to get the idea that it was a piece of op- 
pression because it was the case of an old man Avith ten children. I do 
not know how many children he has got, but I think his children are 
mostly grown, and sonie of them married. He is in very good circum- 
stances, owns some land, and, I understand, is doing very well; that was 
my impression at the time. I want to say that, in connection with 
the matter, I am inclined to think that the agent Brooks had a little 
prejudice against me at the time. He lived at Greensboro, where I 
had some political enemies, and he boarded with one of them. I felt, 
while he was in the district, that he had some feeling towards me. 

Q. You mean iwlitical enemies of your own party ? — A. Yes, sir. He 
disclaimed it when I charged him with it, or anything of the sort, but 
his readiness to magnify a thing of that kind, and other things occur- 
ring iu the district, led me to believe that he was willing that odium 
should be put upon me. 

Q. Were these enemies of yours in Greensboro trying to get you out 
and somebody else in ? — A. 1 do not know ; they were trying to prevent 
my having influence in the party. They seemed to be afraid that 1 
might have too much of it for them. I may be doing Brooks injustice, 
but in that Templeton matter, where he went out of his way to magnify 
that thing and ijut it in a bad light, it seems to me he must have had 
some feeling of that sort, and 1 told him so. 



396 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. If you have nothing further to state in that matter, I will ask if 
you have anything to say about Bruuer's statement here? — A. In reply 
to Mr. Bruner, I would say that I had the imx)ression from what I heard 
that he was disliked because of his not giving that attention to distil- 
lers' matters in the way I stated yesterday; that he was a stranger to 
the parties that he stayed with mainly, except Mr. Lanier, and a new man 
among them, and his habits were such that he was disinclined, I sup- 
pose, to give such assistance about the distillery as a great many of 
these storekeepers are in the habit of doing. These storekeepers are 
selected, as a general thing, from the farmers of the country and the 
ordinary business men, and they do not hesitate to give the distiller any 
assistance about the distillery that they can, looking after his affairs, 
and seeing that his business is conducted without loss to him. I know 
a great many storekeepers have been objected to time and again be- 
cause of indisposition on their jiart to do this. 

Q. In connection with that, to what extent did you allow distillers to 
have a choice in selecting storekeepers? — A. I was governed by these 
motives: where I had appointed a man by the advice or recommenda- 
tion of his respectable neighbors (that was a condition of his getting au 
appointment), and he gave a good bond, had the confidence of his friends 
to a sufficient extent to give a good bond, together with his oath as an 
officer not to defraud the government in the way of division of pay or 
the increase of mashes, or anything of that kind, I felt constrained to stop 
right there and not listen to these rumors unless I knew some circum- 
stance that tended to give me the idea that he would defraud the gov- 
ernment. If the distiller expressed a desire to have a man of that sort, 
I was inclined to favor him, and did so. 

Q. The distiller? — A. Yes, sir; for the reason that the distiller gen- 
erally preferred an acquaintance of his, or a neighbor whom he knew, 
and I believe it was mostly for the purpose stated that he wanted some 
one there who would look to his affairs around the distillery, and see 
after his hands, &c. 

Q. The intimation is that these distillers expressed preference for 
storekeepers in order to get one to divide pay ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever assign a man about whom you had a suspicion of 
that sort? — A. No ; where I had a reasonable suspicion of it I was not 
governed by the report of those things, because you can hear almost 
anything in those matters. 

Q. Were not those damaging reports very frequent there ? — A. You 
could not take cognizance of them. They were flying around there 
about everybody connected with the service. No man was free from 
them. This Democratic political jaw was going on all the time, and 
liad been for years ever since I had been in the business. 

Q. You appointed some Democrats to office, and Mr. Bruner was one 
of them ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was Bruner a farmer? — A. No, sir; he was a newspaper m.an. I 
had an object in that, for the press was violent in its denunciations of 
the revenue officers and the law. Bruner applied to me for a place, and 
I thought it was a good idea to take him in, and see if it would modify 
liis editorials, and the contents of his journal, and it had that effect. 
The paper pursued a very different course towards the officers and the 
laws after that. As the campaign in 1880 drew on, Bruner, as he stated 
here the other day, withdrew from the service, I think to participate 
in that campaign. He calculated it was going to get pretty hot, and 
wanted to be on his own side. I think that was his main reason for 
withdrawing. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 397 

Q. I call your attention to J. N. Summers; do you wish to state any- 
tbingin regard to liis statement ? — A. I remember that Summers applied 
to nie to be sent to a distillery in Wilkes County. Summers lives in 
Iredell County. Wilkes County is some distance north of Iredell. He 
came to nu' aiid told me a distiller in Wilkes County hadrequested that 
he should be sent to his ])lace. I asked him how he came to make that 
request. Ilej did not give a satisfactory reason for it, and it seems to 
me that it was rather an unusual circumstance for a man away off up in 
the mountains to send down to Iredell and take a rather obscure man 
for a storekeepei-, and I refused to assign him there. He became offended, 
and went on and made some statement about his ])olitical contributions, 
which were untrue. I do not remember now what he did state, exce])t 
in his alhdavit. which is published in that document. I replied to it^ 
and I deny what he says. 

Q. Your answer is in the executive document; have you anything to 
say in regard to J. C. Barclay's testimony, and especially in regard to 
Daniels's distillery? — A. I would like, if I could, to see Barclay's testi- 
mony, what he says (Barclay's testimony handed to Avitness. Witness- 
examining). This upper distillery was eight bushels capacity, and it 
was afterwards reduced to four bushels. I think that was for the reason 
I assigned a while ago, that he could not operate an eight bushel distil- 
lery all the year around Avith the water he had ; that he had to have 
water of a cooler temperature. The point I wanted to make was in re- 
gard to some statements he makes here about the number of Daniels's 
distilleries ; that they were operated in two instances in the name of 
other parties, and that Ave did not know that Daniels had any connec- 
tion Avith the Freeze distillery until after the trouble at that distillery. 
Of course, I, as collector, could not help that, if a nuiii wanted to run a 
distiller}' under another name. Of course I Avould have objected tO' 
Daniels running a distillery and expressed my disapprobation of it, but 
I could nothaA^e helped his running that number, and I do not know that he 
had anything to do with starting the Freeze distillery. He may have 
had a connection Avith the Avhisky that was in it, in trading with Freeze^ 
and I believe it turned out that Avay some how or other, but my recol- 
lection of the multiplication of stills in the Daniels case, was in the 
investigation we made of it; that he Avanted a larger supply of water, 
I heard, and could not get it for the amount of corn he wanted to stilL 
Altogether, he wanted to still eight bushels the year around, and he 
could not do that Avith the amount of Avater he had. 

Q. ^ou mean at one place? — A. Yes, sir. If he had separate stills 
he could move one down the branch and utilize a portion of the Avater 
for the mashes, and in that Avay he could oi)erate them. As much as I 
have had to do with distilling in that district, I know A^ery little about 
the modus operandi. I never was in but two or three distilleries in my 
life; that was all attended to by deputies. We investigated the matter, 
and that was the result of our investigation. It was allowed to go on. 

Q. Mr. Leonard made a statement here, I believe, to the effect that 
you had made an arrangement with him that all over $50 must be paid 
to some purpose by him. State what you have to say about that. — A. 
Well, JMr. Leonard in his cAidence Avas couA^eying the idea that his office 
Avas giA'en on condition that he Avas to do that thing. I made no such 
condition. I never allowed myself to do anything of that kind. When 
he was appointed, it maj^ haA^e been that I told him I Avouldlike him to 
nmke an ap])lication of a certain amount of what he receiA'ed for a cer- 
iain i)urpose. 

Q. You mean a political puri^ose? — A. Yes, sir. He said it Avas all 



3') 8 COLLECTIOIN OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN ^^^j 

right. He went oflf to another county, I think, some diiferent section, as 
I did not see him for some time, or if I did, I do not call it to mind. At 
any rate, the necessity did not arrive, or it was provided for in some 
other way. 

Q. When you say for a political purpose, do you mean that some par- 
ticular temporary purpose occurred just at that time? — A. Yes, sir; it 
was wanted for a particular purpose. 

Q. You do not mean that it was to run through the whole of his serv- 
ice? — A. Oh, no; it was merely some indebtedness for political print- 
ing that we wanted to relieve ourselves of; it was a newspaper debt. 

Q. But he was never called on for it? — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. And never paid it? — A. At least he said so. I did not know but 
that he had paid some of it, but when he said what he did, it was recalled 
to my memory that it was provided for. 

Q. In a different way without calling upon him ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you wish to make any remarks on Mr. Crane's report? (The 
witness was handed Mr. Crane's report.) — A. The date of the report is 
May 2, 1874, made to S. W. Perry, supervisor. 

Q. Addressed to him ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There are seven specific charges made in Crane's report. In the 
first place, that you signed the deputy rolls in blank ; as the answer is in 
there, you may state on oath if that answer contains the truth. — A. 
I thought you wanted to ask some questions in regard to the report. 

Q. You say, generally, that that answer you have made to Crane's 
report contains what is the truth ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It is such as you would make on affidavit? — A. Yes, sir; I think 
so ; I went over it the other day. 

Q. I think Mr. Crane states that you received credit on your disburs- 
ing accounts for $1,125 paid to Kestler. Did you receive such an amount 
on Kestler's account? — A. No; I only received $65. 

Q. Did you ever receive any such credit on your disbursing account 
on account of Kestler? — A. I do not understand you; are you asking 
about the amount I paid to Kestler? 

Q. As to the amount you paid Kestler. — A. I paid him $65. 

Q. No more? — A. No more. 

Q. Was your disbursing account credited with any $1,125? — A. I do 
not know ; my disbursing account shows that I paid $65. 

Q. And that is the only item ? — A. On my account — disbursing ac- 
count. What I wanted to speak about in connection with the matter 
was the animus of Mr. Crane. 

Q. Your answer to Mr. Crane's report was in writing to the depart- 
ment? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you do not care to supplement that, except to say that it is 
true? — A. That is what I wanted to say; that these statements that I 
make in this answer to Mr. Crane are substantially true, as I remem- 
ber them. 

Q. The date of your answer is May 15, 1874 ? — A. I think that that 
reply to Crane's report is about correct. 

Q. You think that Crane was sent there for the purpose of getting up 
something to cause your removal? — A. That is my impression. 

Q. Then you were removed in consequence of that report ? — A. And 
I heard afterwards that he gloated over it, and then still further, afrer 
he found out how the account had been adjusted in the department, that 
he expressed some regret about it. 

Q. Mr. Crane expressed some regret about it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. This witness here yesterday, Mr. Henderson, stated that he heard 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 399 

liim say, on investigation, that it was all bosli, but you were turned out 
ofoflice on account of it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And upon inAestijj;ation,were restored inabouttliree orfour weeks? 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Make any statement that you wish in regard to other matters. — 
A. I do not know of anything else. 

Q. It is alleged that Mr. Bryan, one of your deputies up in Wilkes, 
where there are a great many illicit distilleries, did not break up or at- 
tempt to break up any; have you any explanation about that? — A. That 
is explained in this reply to Mr. Crane's report here. 

By KSenator McDill : 

Q. Mr. Kestler stated in his examination, Dr. Mott, that you came to 
see him, he thought, once or twice about the vouchers, and in a conver- 
sation you said, that Clarke had done this; that Clarke thought Kestler 
was in the service ; that you stated to him that a man by the name of 
Millen Walker got some of the money ; and that it was frequently the 
case to draw money over one man's account and pay it to another. 
Please state whether you had such a conversation and what you waid. — 
A. No, sir. I had no conversation with Kestler about that. I went 
there to get that voucher signed, so as to make up an amended account. 
He, as I understood it, under the advice of Ramsey, was disinclined to 
comply with the request. I \vent to him and told him that a mistake 
had been made in the matter of these vouchers, and I wanted him to 
correct it, making an amended account, and give the true amounts, as 
the other parties to whom the money was paid had done. He seemed 
to deinur, and I think I had to go to him twice before I got his signature 
to the voucher. 

Q. Was that this sixty-five dollar voucher ? — A. The sixty-five dollar 
voucher 1 wanted to put in the amount of his account. His statement 
that I wanted him to sign a paper exonerating me is false, because there 
is no possible way by which he could have given me a piece of writing 
that would have i)ut the matter in a different light at all. I only asked 
for the voucher for 865. 

Q. What I called your attention to is his statement that you said it 
was a frequen t thing to draw one man's money on anotlier man's accou nt. — 
A. No, sir; 1 think there is an instance or two in which money was 
drawn on one man's account, or some that had been drawn on one man's 
account was uiuler an arrangement of the party, on condition of certain 
help being extended, as in raiding, where a man felt unsafe about going 
to a distillery and he wanted help, where the government had not given 
more men or allowed sutficient force ; there were several instances in 
which that was done, but I do not remember the names or anything 
except in these instances here that you spoke of. 

I want to express myself again in regard to Kestler's statement, that 
I went to him to sign some paper to exonerate me. It would occur to 
any one that it would be impossible for him to give me anything to 
answer that luirpose. The only thing I M'anted from him was his voucher 
for $65. ]Ie did not want to give me that, because he thought he had 
some advantage, and I understood it was on the advice of Ramsey. 
Ramsey would not put his voucher in at all for the true amount, though 
I obtained from him a separate receipt at the rate of $100 a month. I 
explained to Kestler that it did not make any particular difference 
whether he did it or not, that I would rather he would put it in, so as 
to show how the account stood, but that if he did not want to do it, it 
was all right, that it could not be of any great advantage to me; at the 



400 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

same time I preferred him to doit, and passing through the town a.uain, 
1 understood that he was inclined to do it, and I went to see him the 
second time and got the voucher. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman: 

Q. Where does Chirke come from ; what country is he a native of? — 
A. J. A. Clarke? 

Q. Yes °? — A. From ISTorth Carolina. 

Q. What part of the State '? — A. -From the center, Granville County, 
probably. 

Q. He came to you, as you tell us, from Mr. Perry, and he was thor- 
oughly recommended, except that he was inclined to drink "?— A. Yes, 
sir; Mr. Perry recommended him to me as a good man, to use his own 
expression, a* " first rate, good hearted, clever man." I did not know 
Clarke. He had been in the revenue business with Mr. Young, and I 
thought it behooved me to get some one who knew the business. 

Q. He came to you at the very start ? — A. Yes, sir -, at the very start ; 
he helped me to execute the bond, something 1 did not know anything 
about. There Avas some difficulty in complying with the rules in exe- 
cuting the bond. It whs for that i^urpose he came ahead of the trans- 
fer of the office. 

Q. You stated, I believe," that you were absent in the campaign dur- . 
ing the time covered by these vouchers, and necessarily left everything 
to Clarke? — A. No, sir; I do not think I stated that. If I did it w^as a 
mistake. I said that the early period of my official administration 
covered the campaign, and that these matters were all put upon and 
left to Mr. Clarke, on account of my absence and employment in that 
campaign and otherwise. But it did not cover the Avhole period of the 
vouchers. 

Q. You do not mean to say that there was any campaign going on in De- 
cember, 1872, and from the last of March, to the 30th of June, 1873 ?— 
A. No, sir ; I do not think you ever got anything from me that makes 
that appear. I said, I think, if I remember anything about it, that I 
was away a great deal about that period after the campaign ; that I 
had a good deal of private business, and very little to do with the office 
during the winter. 

Q. You said that these Kestler vouchers were of a character that 
were often left to clerks to get up, and to prepare for the department ? — 
A. No, sir ; I did not say that — you mean to sign and get up ? 

Q. Yes, sir; prepare for the adjustment? — A. No; I said that these 
matters were left to the clerk to make up a quarterly account. That was 
what I did say. 

Q. Did you not say that it was usual, generally, for the clerks — left to 
them — to makeup this kind of accounts ? — A. 1 do say that the collectors 
delegate to the clerks and deputies authority to sign their names to 
detail work in their offices. 

Q. You say Mr. Kestler remained about ten days, and you found he 
was inefficient? — A. I found he would not be efficient in the way I 
wanted. 

Q. The reason you give is that he was feeble, one armed, &c., and you 
put Walker in to'^do his work? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you make any record of Kestler's discharge? — A. No, sir; 
that was not done then in the office. There was no record of that sort 
kei)t. 

Q. Did you inform the department of the change? — A. No, sir; that 
was not done in those days. In the case of Walker, when he first went 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 401 

in, and in the case of Henderson and another man or two alon^- there. 
At the start there was no record kept, no report made of it. I changed 
these men from time to time, to suit myself and my idea of what I 
wanted done, and no record was kept of it except the disbursements. 

Q. Did you liud out tlie mistake about tliese voucliers before Mr. 
Crane came out? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did tlmt report first call your attention to it '? — A. I had some- 
correspondence with the de{)artment which indicated that there was 
dissatisfaction at the de]>artment, and that the account was not in the 
shape the}' wanted it, but in regard to those Kestler vouchers I knew 
nothing of it until Mr. Crane's report was made. 

Q. How many deputies did you have in 1872, or the last part of 1872 ? — 
A. There were five or six. It is on that last abstract of June 30, 1873. 

Q. The fiscal year that ran from June, 1872, to June 1873 ?— A. You 
know they were increased, and more put on from May 20, 1873. 

Q. Previous to this time yon had three? — A. Yes, sir ; I had three 
that were paid. I remember during that i^eriod men would come to me 
and want i)ositions as dei)uties, and some of tliem were commissioned as 
such witli the promise if they would do some work that I might be able 
to put them on, and I held out that as an inducement to men to assist in 
breaking down blockading through the country ; I commissioned a good 
many men during the yenv 1872 ; I had them about in different pares of 
the district, and I will say that after that, some of them did do such 
work, ami they might have been appointed deputies. Wherever they 
had come up to what I expected, and deserved pay for what they did do, 
I put them on as deputies, and assisted them in that way. 

Q. What I want to know is the number of deputies that were paid, 
and these accounts you forwarded here to the department — the vouchers 
for the same — were there only three at that time ! — A. Three ; that was 
all the allowance. 

Q. And Walker was one of your first deputies ? — A. Y"es, sir; he was 
employed, I think, at the start. 

Q. And did active work ? — A. Yes, sir ; he worked then in the way 
lie did that winter; he did active work as a deputy ; I do not think he 
was a ganger at the start. 

Q. How do you suppose it happened, he being one of the first deputies', 
and on active work, that Clarke did not put him down for pay in that 
voucher? — A. it is something I cannot explain. 

Q. He put Mr. Kestler in who had not been about the office for 
several months ? — A. Kestler had been about the office. 

Q. About ten days, and then went home, and Mr. Clarke saw nothing 
more of him for about nine months, and yet made out vouchers for him 
instead of the active deputy who was on duty. I believe you said, as 
we went on, that you paid the deputies before their vouchers were 
sent in, because they were i^oor men? — A. In some instances I made 
advances to them. 

Q. Did you pay Mr. Walker in that way ? — A. I remember furnishing 
Mr. Walker everything — all his gauging tools and some other things ; 
paid his expenses. He was a poor man and ha<l no means, and I 
generally found all through the history of my administration there that 
most of the men I would take up when they were put on as deputies, 
and their expenses commenced in traveling about the country, that I 
would have to assist them, and that went on up to the last of my ad- 
ministration. 

Q. During the time that the Kestler vouchers were being filed instead 
of Mr. Walker's, Mr. Mcintosh's, and Mr. H. Y. IMott's, who did the serv- 
S. Mis. 110 26 



402 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN \ 

ice in fact? Did either of them make complaints about their pay — why 
it did not come on? — A. It appears H. Y. Mott said nothing about his 
voucher, and it turns out he did not know he had to put one in until he 
was called on by me for this amended voucher. I will state, here, that' 
H. Y. Mott made no complaint about it, for the reason that he had in- 
structed me to pay a note of his in the neighborhood there — some eight 
or ten miles below Statesville. I make the exjilanation so as to clear 
up the thing in every way that I can. He owed a man by the name of 
Neal some money. • 

Q. Having asked you to pay this would keep him quiet? — A. I sup- 
pose so. Another thing was, I think I paid my brother some money 
during that period. I remember I had his note for an amount that I 
furnished him to get his medical education with, immediately after the 
war, and it is probable that some of it might have been applied in that 
way. I know that we had a settlement several years afterwards. We 
had matters running on for several years, and I make that statement 
for the purpose of explaining why he did not call on me. These are the 
facts. . 

Q. Walker left and went to Illinois before he got his money, and left 
Mr. Clarke to collect it? — A. Walker must have made a mistake about 
that; because, as I told you, I advanced this very money during that 
winter, and I applied a portion of it to the expenses that he had asked 
me for in advance to pay for his ganger's tools, &c. I think that 
Walker got mixed on that ; and that he was not aware, even at that time 
when he said it, that he was entitled to his pay as deputy until these 
vouchers went in. After he had been a ganger his pay was held from 
time to time, and he did not get his ganger's check, which, probably, 
was often the case; and he concluded that it was because his vouchers 
were not in proper shape ; and when those vouchers were sent to him 
to amend while he was in Illinois, I suppose he thought, though he 
had had the benefit of the money from time to time before he left, 
that there must have been something wrong about his account, that we 
had not yet got his money. 

Q. Did you ask leave to file these amended vouchers, or did some one 
in the department there require you to do it? — A. I think they required 
it there at the department. 

Q. Did you tell us, at any time, when they were put in ? — A. I think 
I mentioned yesterday that they were put in about the time they are 
signed, and I only judge of that by the disposition I had to file them as 
soon as I got hold of them. I know that it was expected at the depart- 
ment that they should be filed. I know that in accordance with that 
' expectation, as they were in a hurry, I put them in immediately, because 
^ihey wanted to straighten the account. 

Q. Whom did you file them with"?— A. I cannot tell you that. I do 
not remember whether they were put in by me in person or forwarded 

by me. 

Q. To what branch of the department? Mr. Eaum said, yesterday, 
be did not think they went through his oflice.— A. I am not sure about 
that. I do not know how that is. 

Q. It was not necessary at that time for the adjustment of your account, 
for your account had already been adjusted? — A. I do not know that. 
The"^ letters we received from'time to time lead me to believe it was not 
adjusted; and this statement of limitation of allowance in the compen- 
sation accounts, which I did not know about, went to make me believe 
that it was not settled. I supposed they were adjusted at that time. I 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 403 

had no reason to l)elieve that they had not been, becanse there had not 
been anything said abont it except in these letters. 

Q. In rehition to the political assessments, yon told ns yesterday that 
in 1880 they amounted to*14,000?— A, I think so; between $14,000 and 
$15,000, that I know abont. 

Q. And there was some sent directly to Kaleigh I — A. I think so. 

Q. Have yon any idea how many officers there were on duty that 
year? — A. I think about one hundred and fifty. 

Q. Yon did not call on men to pay that were not making any money ? — 
A. No, sir; I did not call on them to i)ay. 

Q. When did yon begin to collect political assessments ? — A. I Ijcgan 
inquiring abont it sometime before the Chicago convention. 

Q. I mean during your administration. — A. To make political assess- 
ments on the officers ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I never had any regular assessment upon them until 
1880. We would throw in a little around, and I might have called on 
some parties to assist me in the matter, but there was no regular assess- 
ment before that time. 

Q. Did you gi ve that receipt (handing paper to witness) ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
that is my handwriting. 

Q. (Eeading:) 

Statesville, April 24, 1872. 

Received of J. A. Ramsay, $50. 

J. J. MOTT, 
Chairman Diat. Com. 

A. Isui>pose that was done of Mr. Ramsay's own accoid. He wanted 
to make some contribution of that kind, but I never sent out any circu- 
lar or made any general assessment on the officers until 1880. 

Q. Did you consider your order to your subordinates to cease swear- 
ing out warrants as legal? — A. I did not think it was illegal at the time. 

Q. Forbidding them to execute part of their duty ? — A. Ko, sir ; for 
the reasons stated yesterday, I thought that the cases were open and 
that we had sometime to run in which parties could be indicted. 

Q. In relation to the abuse that politicians, speakers, and newspapers, 
and others, lieaped upon the revenue officers, was there no excuse for it 
at all ? — A. The politicians ? 

Q. Or anybody al»using tlie revenue officers. — A. I do not think there 
was in my district. I never infringed on anybody's rights. I do not 
think you can cite any instance in my district, under my administration, 
where anything of that kind was done. Of course we had some fights 
and difficulties, but it grew out of insults and things of that kind. 

Q. I do not allude to personal fights or difficulties, which may happen 
to anybody, but what I mean is this: Were not the revenue officers in 
your district, and in your State, active, hard-working Ilepublican poli- 
ticians? — A. Yes, sir; I think they were generally 

Q. When your political enemies were fighting you, they had the ex- 
cuse that they were fighting their political enemies in the officers of the 
government? — A. But you did not fight fair. 

Q. That is a matter of opinion '. — A. But you let it get too hot ; you 
let it go too far altogether. 

Q. Do yon recollect some of the comjdaints made against revenue 
officers, tliat they rode through the country armed and terrorized over 
the peo[)le ? — A. Tliat was said. 

Q. And carried blank Avarrauts, and just filled up people's names? — 
A. I did nothing of the kind. 



404 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Tliat was the marshals ? — A. We did not allow the marshals to do 
that. 

Q. I asked you if that were not true, if these complaints were not 
made 1 — A. Yes, sir ; complaints were made, but in that district I dd 
not think of aDy particular instances. There may have been instances 
of it, but I know it was complained on the other hand that there was 
not a sufficient amount of care manifested on my part in assisting the 
marshals to do these very things you are talking about; and as a con- 
sequence that district became very much popularized all through that 
country, because we would not allow the marshals to do these things in 
connection with my office. 

Q. Have you not in the service of the department a good many violent 
men — fighting and reckless men in the use of weapons and things of 
that sort? — A. Yes, sir; some very courageous fellows, but they are 
generally men of pretty fair character, and they are under all sorts of 
restraint. Of course we had to have bold men to do the work that was 
to be done there. They would run out any other kind. 

Q. Some parts of your work require men of courage, and a good deal 
of it. Now, about tnese distilleries, you say under the old regime that 
men could not so well give a big bond as they could give two small 
bonds'? — A. Yes, sir; that was one reason assigned for the change. 

Q. What is the bond required for a four-bushel capacity still ? — A. I 
really do not remember; $500, I think, is the distiller's bond of that 
capacity. 

Q. Now, for a eight-bushel capacity, how much would that be"? — A. 
In the same proportion ; if four bushels were $500, eight bushels would 
be $1,000. You can understand how much more readily they would be 
able to get a man to sign a $500 bond than a $1,000 bond; it requires 
two sureties on a bond, and it was less difficult to procure them. 

Q. You say Jim Harris was a colored man you thought well of; you 
used the word "well""? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I ask you if he was not considered a man having a bad character 
in consequence of facts developed on the fraud commission "? — A. I heard 
some reports of that sort, but know nothing of it. 

Q. Was it not shown by the fraud commission that when he was made 
a candidate for Congress he sold out to Deweese; was not that sworn 
to before the fraud commission "? — A. You said so. 

Q. Was it not shown? — A. I do not remember ; 1 never knew that was 
the case. You charged so much on us down there that I cannot recol- 
lect it all. 

Q. I have not been able to get a copy of Harris's political appoint- 
ments, when he was going around through the the district, except for 
the month of September — at least for a part of the month of Sex)tem- 
ber — 1880 ? — A. He made some speeches in September. 

Q. Here is a copy purporting to have been taken from the Ealeigh 
Signal of the issue of September 2.3. I do not know whether it is true 
or not; but I got it from a respectable gentleman, who copied it off and 
sent it to me (handing to witness). See if you know anything about 
those appointments. — A. (Examining.) Yes, sir ; I think Harris spoke 
at these places; I know he spoke at Mayhew's, and I know at this 
place called "Mott's Grove"; that is in the neighborhood of States- 
ville. Whether he went to the others, I am not sure. 

Q. Do you recollect whether these statements are correctly given ? — 
A. (Reading-) "Mott's Grove, September 25." I do not know; I know 
he spoke at these two places. I suppose that is correct. I know he 
made some speeches while he was deputy. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OP" NORTH CAROLINA. 405 

Q. You see I am following Mv. Pool's exainiiiatioii. On investigation 
you were restored ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What investigation was made ? — A. I suppose the investigation 
by these accounting officers in the internal-revenue service. A man 
by the name of Tompkins was at the head of ac(!0unts in the internal- 
revenue office. It was to him that I went and asked if lie had ex- 
amined the accounts in the Comptroller's Office ; and if he liad not, that 
I desired lie would do it. That if he would, I thought he would enter- 
tain a different o]>inion with regard to these matters. He appeared to be 
a little pettish about it and careless, and said he did not have time. I 
insisted that he must take time, or I would go to the President about 
it; and we got up a little stir there in the office. I left and went back 
the next day, and asked Mr. Tompkins if the matter had been looked 
into; and he went on to say that he thought the matter was all right, 
and gave me to understand that the President insisted on my being- 
restored. 

Q. That is what you allude to when you say the matter was investi- 
gated f— A. Then 1 told Judge Settle and Mr.'Smith to go to Mr. Doug- 
lass and get a copy of the charges. That was after I saw Mr. Tomp- 
kins and insisted upon it. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Was Mr. Douglass the Commissioner at the time? — A. Yes, sir; 
Commissioner Douglass. They went to Mr. Douglass, and then came to 
me with the statement that Mr. Douglass said the charges against me 
were that I was not giving personal attention to the office, but dab- 
bling in railroads and in farms, and would not attend to my official Inisi- 
iiess. He wanted somebody who would give the office his jiersonal at- 
tention. Judge Settle and Mr. Smith knew that, I had told them of the 
complaint that Mr. Crane had made and explained it to them. They 
went to the President. The President instituted some inquiry about it 
— at any rate T was reinstated. 

Q. I understood you to deny that you signed that abstract that con- 
tained the Kestler vouchers? — A. I did. 

Q. Mr. Clarke said that you had signed it as a mere matter of form; 
you say you did not sign it at all? — A. I did not sign it at all; and I 
think yoii must have called Mr. Clarke's attention to the Avrong one; I 
do not know ; I will leave that to him to explain. I did sign the amended 
abstract. 

Q. You say you left these matters to Mr. Clarke, relying on his expe- 
rience to fix it up in proper form ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If they were not signed by you, of course they were not sworn to 
by you ? — A. TnTo, sir. 

Q. Were they not required to be sworn to by law? — A. Yes, accord- 
ing to what I have heard since ; but it has not always been done in the 
collectors' offices of the country, as I uuderstand aiul have l)een so in- 
formed. 

Q. As you knew that he had made up the vouchers and sent them 
on, and you had not signed them, relying upon him. You knew that 
you had uot sworn to them, of course? — A. I knew after that; but I 
did not know then I had to swear to that account unless he had told me. 
If I did not state it, I do state so now. I never saw these vouchers 
until after Crane's report. 

Q. Do not all the forms furnished you from the department have a 
printed oath upon them? — A. 1 do not think all of them do. I think 
most of them do, and that all went off in the same way — not sworn to. 



406 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

Now since that occurrence I have been more particular about it. But 
there are instances in which, if the form had to be complied with strictly 
and the accounts got up in time, they would suifer a good deal of incon- 
venience and trouble in such offices on account of that, 

Q. Do you suppose or believe the department knew these accounts 
had never been sworn to? — A. I do not know that they did. I want 
you to understand that I did not see those accounts, and did not sign 
them. The money was furnished me under the allowance, and I em- 
I)loyed men and paid it out under the allowance without reference to the 
quarterly account which was made up by Mr. Clarke during that period. 

Q. There has been some confusion in my mind about this 7iiatter. 
Let me see if I have got it correct. A certain allowance was made to 
yon for the expenses of your office ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You disposed of that allowance as you thought proper in the em- 
ployment of clerks, deputies, &c. ; you had a sort of voucher showing 
what deputies you had employed, and what you had paid them, and if 
the total exceeded the amount of the allowance they cut you down. 
That is right, is it not '? — A. Yes, sir 5 that is right. 

Q. Did you understand that no money was received on these Kestler 
vouchers except this $05 ? — A. I understood that the account was ad- 
justed there in accordance with the letters we received. It must have 
Ibeen delayed. I do not know about that. I say I received no money 
on the Kestler vouchers to my knowledge, because I did not know the 
Kestler vouchers were in there. Therefore I could not have told him I 
received the money on his vouchers. That is what I want to state. 

Q. Now, I understand, from the testimony that is in, that you had 
drawn all the $1,125 on the Kestler vouchers, because the government 
had cut it down to $100 a month instead of $125 a month ; and instead 
of paying that money to Kestler, or keeping it yourself, that you had,, 
when the mistake was discovered, paid it over to Walker and those 
other deputies who had actually done the work ; but the money was 
drawn on the voucher put in by Mr. Kestler? — A. That is the very 
point I differ with you about. I say I could not have drawn the money 
on the Kestler vouchers, although the vouchers appear there. I be- 
lieve the account was settled without reference to the Kestler vouchers, 
because the amounts were funished in advance of the vouchers, from 
time t(^ time. He went in there in October, and we put in no voucher 
till in January some time. At least it did not reach the department 
until January, and as a consequence I did not know that any money 
was being drawn on the Kestler vouchers. I think that they settled 
the account without reference to the names of the men that appeared. 
I thought, possibly, in view of those letters that passed between the 
department there and the office, they might without my knowledge — 
without mj' being aware of it — have kept the account open. I do not 
know how that is. I know they required the amended account; and 
they gave me reason to suppose that the account was finally adjusted 
in accordance with that amended account. 

Q. Mr. Clarke has stated here, on both of his examinations, that the 
habit was to put in the vouchers for more than was actually^ due, for 
the purpose of increasing the estimate for the allowance! — A. That is 
what he explained to me afterwards. 

Q. That is correct, is it? — A. I think so. That was his explanatiou 
to me. He told me that was the custom he followed in the collector's 
office in Ealeigh. 

Q. How could that allowance be increased in that way when it had 
already been made? — A. The allowances could be increased during the 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 407 

fiscal year, just as the}" were from the i)erioil from May 20 to June 30,, 
1873. 

Q. That was on account of the abolislnneut of the assessor's office? — 
A. It was (lone in other instances in North Carolina, in the history of 
the service, and Chuke's idea was that if we called the attention of the 
officers in this way that we wanted more money, that we might yo to 
work, and they would make a lar.i!,er allowance. That was his explana- 
tion to me. 

(}. The sixth charge relates to these Kestler vouchers, and in answer 
to it you say, "Kestler received pay as deputy, but never did service in 
that capacity." That is the charge. You quote it as yon see there, and 
your answer is — 

Mr. Kestler was appointed a deputy at the earnest solicitation of prominent men. 
I kept liim a short time, and found he would not suit me as such, and he was dis- 
charged. 

AVhy not make more explanation of this matter than that? — A. I do 
not understand you. 

Q. Why do you now make a fuller explanation of the Kestler matter, 
but in this answer you simply say how he was appointed and why you 
discharged him ? — A. Have I mentioned now anything more in this 
connection excejtt the substance of that? 

Q. There is a statement in another place, in answer to the eighth 
charge: "Mr. Martin did service as deputy, but never received pay as 
such. He was named with others on the 1st of May, 1873, as one of the 
deputies employed in the district at that time. The name of H. Y. Mott, 
then acting as deputy, should have appeared on the June abstract, Form 
03, and his vouchers should have been taken. Clarke made a mistake 
in sending Kestler's." That is, I presume, in sending Kestler's name in- 
stead of H. Y. Mott?— A. That about covers it. 

Q. That is for you to say. Your statement here in the answer does 
not seem so full. — A. I thought it was of more importance now, an 
inquiry being made as to it especially ; I want to satisfy the committee. 

Q. You said the other day and this morning — at least you left the 
impression — that you had treated Mr. Perry with some very harsh lan- 
guage about something, and you thought he started Crane after you. — 
A. That was my impression at the time ; after he found out about 
these things he became my warm friend. 

Q. Did not you state, in your letter to Mr. Douglass, November 12, 
1871, that Mr. Kamsay instigated Mr. Crane after you?^A. Crane was 
in there looking around, and he and Eamsay joined in, I suppose. 

Q. In this letter you say (reading) : 

Crane came into my district with acknowledged prejudice against me. He found a 
congenial spirit in .J. A. Ramsay, a deputy of mine, and a kinsman of the man you 
have appointed. 

I discharged Ramsay, soon after he and Crane got together, for failing to pay over 
money lie had collected which belonged to the office. Ramsay is still a defaulter. 
Crane was aware of his having kept or held money that he had collected, for it was 
called to his attention months afterwards by parties holding Ramsay's receipts; still 
he was displeased when I discharged Ramsay. They went to work to have me 
removed, one fioni revenge, the other from prejudice, added to a disposition to make 
reputation. 

A. Bead it all. 
Q. (Continuing:) 

Crane found out long ago that I have been guilty of no crime. He believes to-day 

that I have been guilty of none; still, for the gratitication of his prejudice and vanity 

he is willing to see me sutler the injury of this removal. They have ransacked the 

district and failed to find anything against me personally, but have had to resort ta 

.the acts of others to make any headway at all. 



408 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

A. Please read more. 
Q. (Coutinuing:) 

Now, Mr. Douglass, I cau bring as good attestations of personal integrity as any maa 
in North Carolina — integrity of a characier incompatible with the imputations these 
men are attempting to cast upon me. 

I know you do not want to injure me, and I am satisfied if you knew all about me 
personally, and about my official affairs, and also about the men who are assisting 
Crane in this matter, you would not subject me to the humiliation of this removal. 

God knows I have suffered over my business, and I most respectfully request you to 
reconsider your action, if I had done any crime I would not ask it. It will be a 
concession on your part, but a magnanimous one, which, if you do exercise, you will 
yet say was an act oi simple justice. 

I am quite weary, or I would write more fully. As soon as I am able I will come on 
to Washington. 

A. I wrote that on a sick-bed to Mr. Douglass, and that did not alter 
the statement that I made at first, that Crane came into the district with 
acknowledged prejudice, and that he joined with Eamsay in a movement 
against me. 

Q. I believe you have said that you made no record of Kestler's 
appointment, and gave no notification of it to the department! — A. 
]^fo , sir ; I had no record of these deputies at that time, you will find, 
all the way through. 

Q. Did Martin not get any pay? — A. No, sir; because that was not 
allowed. They only allowed for a certain number of deputies, and Mr. 
Martin was a ganger, but had other duty. I thought he could probably 
afford to do that. 

Q. Could you not have arranged the allowance between them so as 
to allow each one to get something ? Were you not allowed by the de- 
partment to do so if you thought proper"? — A. I do not think that was 
regular. I believe there was an instance or two of that in the district, 
but at that time these men were going to w^ork there as gangers, and it 
was understood at the time if we could get the allowance it would be 
all right, they would get the money ; but if 1 could not, they would 
have to put up with it. I went to Mr. Josephs, who was at the head of 
the division of accounts at that time, and asked him what to do about 
it. He told me the best thing was to put these assistant assessors to 
work — as many as I thought necessary' to look after the special taxes — 
and he had no doubt but that the department would allow it. I did so, 
and they made no allowance for it. I did not understand the run of the 
department in those days. 

Q. Mr. Martin was a deputy ? — A. I think he was a ganger. 

Q. He was a deputy, also; you have him in the abstract as such. — A. 
I do not know whether he was in the service at any other time except 
as ai:)pears in that 1873 abstract. 

Q. Was he drawing pay as a ganger ? — A. I do not know that. 

Q. Was Lillington a ganger as well as dei^uty ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was he drawing pay as a ganger ? — A. I do not know that ; I 
think so. 

Q. Walker was drawing full pay in both capacities ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
he did during that winter. 

Q. Why did .you not ease it off to the men so that one should not 
draw full jDay in one capacit3^, and the other fail to get any? — A. Lil- 
lington was employed as a ganger at the same time that Walker was, 
all through that winter. Walker was in town, and was a favorite man 
in his si)ecial business, looking after illicit distilleries, and a formidable 
one, too — one of the best men in the district, and the most useful. 

Q. Who joined with you in the purchase of the " Pioneer" ? — A. I 
think Mr. Bryan was one ; A. B. Gillespie, and Mr. Brown. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 409 

Q. \\'as Ml'. Liisk ? — A. Yes, sir; ^Ir. Lusk was in it, too. 

{^. Wlioin (lid YOU get to edit itf — A. Mr. Eves. 

(^ C. W. Eves'?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How did you pay liiiii for his service as editor? — A. Eves was at 
that time a general storekeeper, and he probably acted as deputy too. 

Q. Did lie liave much work to do ? — A. I do not remember. There 
is not much work on that side of themountaius. You have some knowl- 
edge of it. There are not many distilleries over there ; but we are 
compelled to keep an ofdcer tliere. 

Q. Y'es, if there is need ? — A. It is impossible to send a man from 
this side of the mountain ; in those days he would have had to travel 
«ome hundred or two hundred miles out there to withdraw a barrel of 
whisky. 

Q. Mr. E. J>. Drake is a general storekeeper, is he not r — A. Y"es, sir. 

Q. And has been since when ? — A. I think it was since 187G. 

Q. i^ot back of 1870 '?— A. 1S75 or 6. 

Q. Drawing full pay except Sundays ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is his work not nominal ? — A. You are mistaken altogether about 
that, I think. Mr. Drake does as much service, I think, as any general 
storekeeper in the district. ])avie County is in his division. As I re- 
member, he has in the neighborhood of fifty distilleries, and alwa^'s a 
considerable number of them under suspension. There is no doubt 
about that; he does his business (except in the way I told you, Avhen 
called upon to go to two or three i)laces at once, 

Q. He is also the editor of the " American" ? — A. Y"es, sir; he writes 
some for it, as well as others. 

Q. But has Ijeen until lately owner and editor? — A. No, sir; the 
other man is the owner, and has been for five or six years ; I think ever 
since Mr. ])rake has been storekeeper, and probably a year or two be- 
fore. 

Q. Has Mr. Drake permission i'rom the Commissioner to engage in 
any other business ? — A. I do not know that he has ; I think that he has 
an idea that it does not interfere with his duties, and that the spirit of 
the law is not interfered with by reason of it. 

Q. How long was W. 1\ Drake a storekeeper ? — A. He never was a 
storekeeper. 

(i^. What was he ? — A. He was a deputy. 

Q. A deputy, I mean — how long ? — A. I forget ; you have got it in 
that abstract ; I think six months. 

Q. His duties were nominal? — A. Y^es, sir ; although a man by the 
name of Howell, and another man there, in accordance to my reply to 
Mr. Crane, did do his work during that period. I see I have stated 
there in that reply to Crane that he did little work ; and that is my 
recollection about it. 

Q. How much money was lifted, collected, or contributed, as you 
please to put it, from the officers of your department, in the prohil)ition 
campaign of 1881 ? — A. I think very little. 

Q. Y'ou do not know how much ? — A. ^o, sir ; it was a one-sided 
business; it went with a whoop. 

Q. There Avas soine collected for that purpose ? — A. I think so. 

Q. Do you know how much of it was spent in support of a paper ed- 
ited by Mr. Spellman ? — A, I do not know whether any of it was or 
not. 

Mr. Pool. We object to that class of questions generally, but not in 
this particular case. 



410 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

The Chairman. Would you object to my asking- him about individ- 
uals that were paid in that campaign ? 

Mr. Pool. Yes, sir ; I do object. 

Senator McDill. We have a right to show assessments for the cam- 
l)aign fund, but this is not in the line of our investigation. 

(The question was ruled out by a majority vote.) 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You can tell how much had been raised in that prohibition cam- 
paign? — A. JSTo, sir. 

Q. Can you give us an idea? — A. No; I have no recollection. I do 
not think there was any general contribution by the officers for it. I 
think that here and there the men put in something. 

Q. Has not j^our olflce been administered, in part, witli a view of 
making converts from your political opponents ? I mean by that — if you 
do not understand me — have you not picked up young men of large 
family connections and got them into positions in the departments with 
the expectation that they would become Republicans, and bring their 
friends with them ? — A. 1 would say, in reply, that I had two purposes 
in selecting men for these places. One was, as I statetl this morning, 
to transfer as much as possible the odium that was put upon the serv- 
ice there in that State, to the Democratic party; and appointments 
were made there among the Democrats against the wish of my political 
friends, and with that view. I know I was threatened at one time with 
a move against me on account of that. I escaped at the time by de- 
fending myself in my conversation with my political associates, that it 
would result in the way that you see it has. That is one defense of my 
course, and 1 confess that I have selected men with that view to some 
extent. I had the places, and men were applying for them, and I would 
give them to such as I thought best, and with both these views. 

Q. Did you not get a good many converts out of the jaws of the law,. 
so to speak, and were not many men acquitted for violating the revenue 
laws and permitted to escape on payment of the costs on condition that 
they would embrace the true faith ? — A. Xo, sir ; I never made an 
arrangement of that kind in my life. 

Q. I do not ask you particularly. — A. I would be the man in that dis- 
trict to effect such an arrangement. I know it was charged directly tO' 
me, and that it was thought, too, by your friends, the members of the 
Democratic party, that that was done. It was a mistake. 

Q. Was not the present collector, your successor, a strong Demo- 
crat? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he not get into some trouble witli the Revenue Department"^ — 
A. No, sir ; he never had any serious trouble with the Revenue Depart- 
ment. There was never anything that he might be the least alarmed 
about or afraid of. He had some spirits seized. It was an ordinary case 
of seizure of his wagon and team. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. State the date. — A. It was before my time — before I went in as 
collector. I have heard that since. That was before Mr. Cooper became 
a Republican. When I came into position there as collector, Mr. Cooper 
was still a Democrat. 

By the Chairman: 
Q. In 1872? — A. I think so; yes; I am sure of it. I think he was a 
Democrat in 1872, and think it was during that campaign he became a 
Republican, or later, but there was no charge against him whatever,, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 411 

and never has been since I have been in the business. I am satisfied 
that Mr. Cooper was without any restraint, and was in no danger on 
account of that matter at any rate. It weut before the Commissiouer 
and was dismissed, and no evidence was brought against him. And 
that happened three or four years before he became a llepublicau. 

Senator Dill. Is he tallying about some papers tliat we have had here ? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir; from Commissioner Holmes. 

Q. There is one part of the case you never heard, perhaps; that is the 
allegation that an important witness ran away from the State, and that 
was the reason why it was dismissed. The man they first examined, 
and upon whose information the warrant was sworn out, did not appear 
at the trial. That is only the statement of Mr. Holmes ; no record made 
of that except the witness called and failed to respond. Was not Mr. 
James Williams, of your county there, a fierce Democrat until he got 
into some trouble with theKevenue Department? — A. He was a Demo- 
crat. He got caught out there blockading. 

Q. He came out of the trouble a Kepublican, did he not? — A. I have 
been hearing that question asked here. I do not know how that was. 

Q. It was not very long after that that he became a Eepublican ? — A. 
I do not know, and I do not want to prejudice Mr. AVilliams, and do not 
want to leave any prejudice by not making a statement of relief to him. 
I remember nothing about it. I think if it had been done I would 
have known something about it, because I was the collector. It hap- 
pened after I came in, and I think that Mr. Williams became a Eepub- 
lican after I came into the collector's oftice. He is, at any rate, a very 
earnest Eepublican. 

Q. Did you know, when Mr. Cobb was appointed at AFr, Pearson's 
request, that he was guilty of these frauds that are charged ? — A. I un- 
derstood that he had been charged with them. He wanted some other 
place, and I refused to give it to him on that account. These raiders — 
you know how that is yourself 

Q. Yes; I understand it is something different from the responsibility 
of the regular deputies. I will ask you if there is any instance where 
you api)ointed Democrats in pursuance of the policy you have spoken 
of, that they did not become Eepublicaus, but coutinued to preserve 
their political integrity? — A. Yes, sir; there were several instances. 

Q. In the majority of cases, however ? — A. They came to act with the 
Eepublican party. I will say that in all my dealings with men in these 
appointments, that I made it a point not to speak of political matters in 
connection Avith their appointment, because I had more respect for a 
man's feelings. I did not want a man to have any such state of teeling 
Avith regard to the matter. 

Q. How did you make known your wishes to the officers under your 
control in regard to the assessments — by a general letter addressed to 
them? — A. I want to say, and have it appear in proper language, in 
speaking of this appointment of Democrats, that I made it a rule never 
to allude to politics when I was approached with regard to ajipoint- 
meuts. It was not made a condition of any man's appointment. There 
may have been two or three instances where I wanted to get rid of a 
man, and told him that I did not care to appoint him on account of his 
politics. But I made it a rule not to have that a condition in appoint- 
ing officers, but left it to its own course, and left him free to act as he 
chos# With regard to political assessments, I wrote a letter, and it 
was received by each man who contributed anything. lu that letter I 
stated that no one would be interfered with in his position if he failed 
to Qontribute, and he was under no constraint with regard to it; that 



412 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EE VENUE IN 

was about tlie substance of it. Tliat I would have no contributions 
unless tliey were willingly given. 

Q. I omitted to ask you a question about Mr. Templeton. Was it 
ever brought to your knowledge that Mr. Templeton paid W. M. Cooper 
^30 a month for board? — A. I think Mr. Templeton told me that, but 
it was after he left Mr. Cooper's. 

Q. Did you not regard that as an indirect division of his pay?— A. I 
do not know whether I inquired whether Mr. Templeton kept his horse 
there. It was more pay than was customary. I regard $20 a month 
as being a fair jjrice for a man and his horse in that country ; and then 
Mr. Cooper lived well, and had things comfortable about his house. 

Q. Did you at any time borrow some money from old man Temple- 
ton? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you pay it back ? — A. It was under a misapprehension, and 
with regarxl to this very thing I was talking about some time ago — this 
newspaper business. I was under no necessity of borrowing money from 
Mr. Templeton that I know of, and that matter ran along — my recollec- 
tion of it is because of this newspaper transaction — until he called my 
attention to it. I hav^e not been in the habit of borrowing from officers. 

Q. You repaid it, but you do not remember when? — A. I do not re- 
member when it was; but whenever he called it to my attention, I 
•think. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. You have had deputies commissioued who were not receiving pay, 
liad you not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It was when they were on duty they received pay? — A. Sometimes 
they did some service, but did not get pay; but I had men on commis- 
sion about through the district, if any matter was to be attended to 
in a certain locality, or it became necessary to have work in a locality 
where he lived ; frequently one deputy dropped out and I put another in 
for the time, and Ave changed them about in that way. 

Q. The poiut I wish to make is, that deputies held commissions that 
were not on duty and did not get pay. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That order to your deputies not to issue warrants at the time 
named was nothing more than a postponement of the prosecutions? — 
A. That was the way I regarded it. That the parties who were guilty 
of any unlawful action would be subject to the same punishment by 
delay that they aa ould be otherwise. Of course, there were some in- 
stances in Avhich they might have left the country and gone out of the 
way, but I regarded the matter as a mere postponement, as you say. 

Q. Your object was to show to the court a sort of protest against the 
matter, and you thought the good of the service required you to do it? — 
A. Yes, sir; and I believe it did good. 

Q. But the Commissioner thought the proper remedy was a little dif- 
ferent, and that Avas to transfer the cases to the circuit court. You 
said that Perry and Earn say instigated the Crane matter, but did you 
not mean that Mr. Perry instigated it by sending Crane into the dis- 
trict ? — A. That is what I mean. 

Q. And Mr. Ramsay instigated it after he got into the district ? — A. 
Yes, sir; I was sick at the time. I wrote that letter in bed, and it had 
gone out of my mind until Governor Yance mentioned it. 

Q. Your idea was that Mr. Perry sent him in there for the purm)se of 
getting ui> something to affect your removal ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And then Mr. Ramsay helped him to get these thin-gs fixed up ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DI8TRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 413 

By the Chaikman : 

Q. I want to ask you a question about your restoration to ofiice. 
AVas not your restoration the eftect of political influence ? — A. I do not 
think so. It was purely a matter of justice, and ayus so r«'gardedby the 
President and those who interceded for nie. Mr. Douglass, it seems, 
was indisposed to have me reinstated, and Mr. Bristow seemed disinclined 
too. I think that was a selfish i)urpose of his, because I was not a sup- 
porter in his political ambition. 1 know he did not regard me as one ot 
his friends. 

Q. And Mr. Bristow and Mr. Douglass oi)posed your restoration ? — 
A. I do not know; I heard that yesterday. Thad an idea that Mr. Bris- 
tow was op]»osed to it. I did not think it was on account of these 
things, because Mr. Douglass said to me y(\sterday it was — I under- 
stood him to say, he was oi)posed to it — because I Avas not giving hiy 
personal attention to the ottice. It is the first time I have had a con- 
versation with him on the subject. 

Q. Do you know where Mr. Crane is now, who made this report ? — 
A. I think he is in California. 

Q. He is 7iot in this part of the country ! — A. Xo, sir. 

Q. Did Mr. Cameron see the President for you? — A. Xo, sir; he did 
not go to the President. 

Q. Whom did he go to? — A. To Mr. Douglass. 

D. C. Pearson recalled to make the following statement : 
I think I answered yesterday to a (juestion that I neyer dealt in 
whisky at all. I wish to state that immediately after the war, when 
there were a great many soldiers there, I and other merchants did sell 
whisky, and 1 paid no tax either. I did that myself, and I did it through 
others. I can fully and emphatically say that for years I have in no 
way assisted in cheating or defrauding the government in any manner, 
through and with whisky; not in the slightest degree for anytime 
since 1 have been a government ofiticial, or i)rior to that time for years. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You mean that directly after the war, before the internal revenue 
system got into operation there, and really when there was hardly any 
State law, without a State license you and other merchants sold whisky 
in Morganton? — A. That is what I meant to say. 

Q. During the period- before the laws. State and Federal, got to be 
established ? — A. There might have been some revenue laws theui 

By the Chairman: 
Q. Did you know that Mr. Burr had bought out that distillery ? — A. 
Never, until Mr. Walton had stated it. 

J. -A. Clarke sworn aud examined in behalf of Dr. Mott. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Question. Do you know that Henry Mott rendered service as deputy 
there, during the last quarter ending June 30, 1873 ? — Answer. Yes, sir; 
I know that Dr. Henry Mott Avas a depufcy. 

Q. How did you come to fail to send in a voucher for him ? — A. That 
was one of my mistakes, I think. 

Q. I want you, upon an examination of these vouchers, to state wheth- 
er Dr. Mott signed any of the original vouchers that were put in for Mr. 
Kestler — the abstracts for the three quarters. — A. (Examining.) Dr. 



414 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Mott did not sign any of these originals. I think I so stated in my evi 
dence. 

Q. Yon signed his name for him? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say he was not sworn 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you authorized to sign Dr. Mott's name? — A. Yes, sir; he 
authorized me to sign his name to all vouchers. 

Q. Did you consider it a forgery to sign his name ? — A. ISTot in the 
least. 

Q. That appeared rather indirectly in your evidence. — A. I think the 
chairman asked me if it was a forgery; I did not so consider it. 

Q. You say you did not consider it a forgery, because he had author- 
ized you to sign his name? — A. No, sir; I did not. 

Q. Did Dr. Mott sign the amended vouchers? — A. Yes, sir; he signed 
the amended — those three amended vouchers from the 1st of October to 
Decemberj 1872, January to March, 1873, and April to June, 1873. 

Q. Embracing the three quarters of the Kestler vouchers. Mr. Hen- 
derson said here yesterday that you made a mistake in making up his 
account, by which you sent in a voucher for a less amount than he was 
entitled to; did you sometimes make mistakes of that sort in making 
up accounts ? — A. Yes, sir ; we often made mistakes. I had a great 
deal to do then. 

Q. You were called on frequently by ofl&cers to make up their accounts 
besides ? — A. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Q. Did you feel authorized to sign these Kestler vouchers for Kest- 
ler"? — A. I did at the time, or would never have signed them. I did not 
consider those vouchers worth anything of value. I said that at all 
times. 

Q. I think you signed Kestler's name to one or more? — A. Yes, sir; 
I had written time and again for it. Dr. Mott was away so much that 
I did not ask him, but just went on and sent the vouchers. I always 
stated that I would not consider them any good, for the government 
only adjusted the account under the letter of allowance, as it was. 

Q. You did not consider it any forgery at all to put Kestler's name to 
them ? — A. No, sir ; or would have written more like him ; but did not 
trylto do that. 

Cross-examination by the Chairman : 

Q. You swore, when on the stand before, that Dr. Mott did sign them, 
did you not ? — A. I don't think I did, sir. 

Q. Did you not tell me that you made them up, and Dr. Mott signed 
them as a matter of form ? — A. I said that the collector sometimes 
signed the reports in blank ; I made that statement, but I don't think 
he signed either one of those as you pointed them out to me. The name 
will show itself that Dr. Mott did not do it. I did it. 

Q. You said in your cross-examination when you made up those 
vouchers that Dr. Mott was off in the district doing campaign work. — 
A. Sometimes he was. 

Q. (Quoting)— 

I made up sucli vouchers as I had and seut them on. He (Dr. Mott) was oti' iu the 
district doing campaign work, and things of that kind, and I believe I signed one of 
Mr. Kestler's, not knowing at that time he was not a deputy, hut afterwards found 
out, and made amended vouchers. 

Q. What campaign was going on in March, 1873 ? — A. I meant to 
state in that statement that Dr. Mott was oif in the campaign, and on 
other business. 

Q. Was that a mistake of yours ? — A. I did not intend to say it that 
way, because in all the campaign he was off. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 415 

Q, And Kestlor "was not a deputy"; tbat was auotlier mistake'? — A. 
I don't think I said tliat. 

Q. "I believe 1 signed one of Mr. Kestler's, not knowing at that time 
he was not a depnty"; that was the remark. — A. After I signed it. 

Q. For a man who only had been in the oftice once — Mr. Kestler. — 
A. I saw him there often at Salisbury. 

Q. Did he make any reports to you ? — A. ISTo. 

Q. Was he doing any work ? — A. No. 

Q. How came you to think he was in there for nine months after Oc- 
tober? — A. I stated time and again that I considered those vouchers 
worth nothing, and they were never i)aid — ;iust went to fill up the report; 
that is the way I looked over the matter; at least I did not consider 
them woi^th anything then. 

Q. They were all s\^orn to, were they not? — A. Never have been. 

Q. Did not the law require them to be sworn to? — A. Yes, sir; they 
so read; but they never have been in all my clerking. 

Q. Did not the law require it; did you not know when you signed 
the vouchers that the law required these men to swear to them? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. You have seen the law ? — A. I don't think the law bears on that 
in 1872, ,':o far as I know. 

Q. (Quoting.) 

No acconut for the compensation for services of any clerk, or other persou emiiloyed 
in any duties in relation to the collection of the revenue, shall be allowed, until such 
clerk or other persoQ shall have certified, on oath, that the same services have been per- 
formed, that he has received the full sum therein charged to his own use and benefit, 
and that he has not paid, deposited, or assigned, or contracted to pay, deposit, or as- 
sign, any i»art of such compensation to the use of any other person, or iw any way, di- 
rectly or indirectly, paid or given, or contracted to pay or give, any reward or com- 
pensation for his office or employment, or the emoluments thereof. 

Mr. ]^ooL. What date is that ? 

The Chairman. Passed May 1S22; brought forward 1874. 

The Witness. That law passed since I had anything to do with the 
revenue. 

Q. You say you never have seen that law ? — A. No, sir ; the circulars 
were issued to all the ofiBcers after I left there. 

Q. You knew that Walker was a deputy? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you did not know that Kestler was not a deputy ? — A. No, 
sir; there were a great many men commissioned there to different work. 

Q. Was not that circular sent out because of their sending up vouchers 
that were not sworn to? — A. It was issued all over the ITnitcd States. 

Q. What did you suppose the certificate meant, if not sworn to? — A. 
Of course it is put there ; but I never done it. 

Q. Why did you put your name certifying it was sworn to ? — A. As 
ii matter of form. 

Q. That was false? — A. You may consider it so. 

Q. To certify that it has been sworn to when it has not been; do you 
not consider that a falsehood ? — A. I did not. 

Q. Did you consider it the truth? — A. A mere matter of form. The 
government did not lose anything by it; did not adjust ou them. 

Q. And l)ecause the government prescribed that form you changed it, 
and thought proper to have a better way of your own and different from 
the government's? — A. I might and might not. 

Q. That is a criminal matter to certify to what is false! — A. I don't 
know about that. 

Q. It was a falsehood that you certified to? — A. I did not certify to it. 

Q. Is not that your handwriting? — A. I did not swear to it. 



416 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. You certified to it? — A. I ouly signed it as a matter of form. 

Q. Was it not a falsehood even if you signed it as a matter of form? — 
A. They did not swear to a falsehood. 

Q. Cannot a man tell a lie without swearing to it? — A. If an oath is 
required in a certain way, a man telling a lie can't do that without swear- 
ing to it. 

Q. Suppose he is required to certify without being sworn; you could , 
have told a falsehood that way or any otlier way. Why do you not I 
answer the question? — A. I do not care to answer a personal question. ' 

Q. You say you did certify that it was sworn to? — A. I say I signed it. 

Q. And you signed your name as "sworn to before me" on such a 
date? — A. The paper shows for itself. 

Q. That is so, is it not? — A. You have the paper — the evidence. 

Q. You say you knew Walker was a deputy? — A. I think he w^as com- 
missioned. 

Q. You did not know Kestler was? — A. Did not. 

Q. You knew the man who was not a deputy and put vouchers in for 
him, but forgot to put any in for the men who were deputies? — A. I 
think T stated that those were put in as a matter of form. 

Q. Could you not have put down the truth as a matter of form ? — A. 
I wrote Kestler for blanks. 

Q. Why did you put down the name of a man that you did not know 
was on the list, and did not put down tfcie name of Walker, whom you 
knew was a deputy? — A. Walker was a ganger there, and drawing pay 
as a ganger and deputy. 

Q. So you did not put his name down as a deputy ? — A. It was an 
oversight of mine ; I could have done it as easy as to put down Kest- 
ler's. 

Q. Why did you not do it, then ; you say that Dr. Mott did not sign 
this original one? — A. He did not sign either of those originals. 

Q. He signed the other ? — A. Signed the amended. 

Q. When I examined you, did you not say that Dr. Mott signed this 
as a matter of form ? — A. I don't think I said that; Dr. Mott signed the 
amended ones. 

Q. Did you not say that he signed the original — the one I held in my 
hand — as a matter of form? — A. Have you the date? You held the 
wrong one, and showed me 

Q. I say I held this original voucher in my hand. — A. I did not so 
understand it; anybody can see I did not. 

Q. Mr. Dwire is acquainted with the handwriting of Dr. Mott, is he 
not ? — A. He ought to be. 

Q. He swore the other day that the amended copy was not Dr. Mott's 
handwriting, and he thought this was the original, but was not sure of 
it. — A. I cannot help what Mr. Dwire swore. 

Q. You say it is so plain and palpable ? — A. It is to me. I wrote it 
so often and knew how he wrote it. 

Q. Did you pay Walker his money? — A. I paid him part of it. 

Q. When ? — A. We had a running account. Walker and I. I got him 
out of three or four scrapes, and sent him money after he went to Illinois. 
I was a kind of agent. He roomed with me, and we were intimate, and 
he left some debts for me to imy. I fixed up all I could, and sent him 
money to Illinois. 

Q. You were on the stand here twice ; why did you not make the cor- 
rection while here ? — A. About those vouchers ? 

Q. Yes. — A. I understood that was the way I said it. I was sur- 
prised when I heard the evidence was otherwise. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 417 

Q. You read your tostiniouy over ? — A. No, sir; I left that iiiglit. 

Q. You never read your testimony over ? — A. Not the " recalled " 
testimony. I left that night. 

Q. You said in your answer to me that you made out these voucher 
accounts for a larger amount than was due, for the purpose of increas- 
ing the estimate? — A. I wanted to show we ought to have more money 
in the <listrict. 

Q. You said, further, it was known to Dr. Mott and by everybody; 
that you made no secret of it f — A. No secret of it — of the accounts be- 
ing larger than they were ? 

Q. Let me read you a little from your testimony (quoting): 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Aud yon generally made np all the papers in the office to be sent to the depart- 
ment ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You did not suhinit them to Dr. Mott ; you usually signed them without expla- 
nation to him ? — A. Yes, sir; he hardly ever looked at the face of the papers. 

Q. He signed them, relying upon your experience ? — A. Sometimes had not seen 
them at all ; sometimes signed them in blank. 

Q. That is correct, is it? — A. A great many other papers besides the 
disbursement accounts. 
Q. (Quoting): 

Q. On the faith of your experience as being sent there by the supervisor? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

A. There were 120 odd reports to make. 
Q. (Quoting:) 

Q. All these deputies gave you authority to sign their names, when they were ab- 
sent, to formal papers f — A. Generally so ; I am not certain. 

Q. These papers were made up (juarterlyf — A. Yes, sir; every three months. 

Q. The department knew the number of deputies down there? — A. Yes, sir; they 
were allowed so many, at such prices. 

Did the department know of Kestler being a deputy! — A. I really 
thought they knew the number of deputies down there. 

Q. That was another mistake? — A. I am not responsible for the tes- 
timony. 

Q. (Quoting:) 

Q. Ami if .a deputy's name went in that was not among the number, the department 
would know — although you certitied to it — it was a mistake? — A. Yes, sir. 

A. They would know the name in the report, of course. 

Q. If Kestler's name went into that number of deputies to the de- 
partment, they would know that? — A. Did not mean that. They would 
know the deputy's name was there. 

Q. They would not know that he was no longer a deputy? — A, Not 
at that time. 

Q. (Quoting:) 

Q. So there was no danger of anj'body being deceived up here? — A. No ; no money 
here would then be allowed. 

Q. There was no ^wssibility of drawing any money on such things? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Now, was not some money drawn on the Kestler vouchers ? — A. 
The Kestler vouchers had nothing to do with the government. They al- 
lowed Dr. Mott so much money to run his oftice. We sent a voucher 
from anybody there ; so running his office did not require him to furnish 
names of men when appointed. What they did was only a matter of 
form. 

Q. It did not matter whether the men did the service or not? — A. Only 
that the work be done in the district by Dr. Mott upon a certain amount. 
S. Mis. 116 27 



41(S COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. John Smith bad done the work aud Bill Jones ke'pt the pay '? — A 
IsTot at all ; did not so look at it. 
Q. (Quoting:) 

Q. Did you feel free to make up these acconuts of those deputies if any of them 
hiappeued to be abseut, and to put their names to them? — A. I thouglit it no harm. 
I did nothing I thought was wrong in the matter. 

Q. You regarded it all as a matter of form ; the department knew all about it here ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So your mistake could not have any effect up here at all ? — A. No effect, as the 
department did not allow anything of that kind. 

Q. What would you consider serious business, if this was all a matter 
of form? — A. I don't know. 

Q. When a man signed a voucher, swore to it, that he had done work, 
and it went in there among others to the government — that was a mat- 
ter of form? — A. Did not pay on those things. 

Q. What did they pay on? — A. On the letter of allowance, allowing 
him to hire so many to do the work. 

Q. Did you make out a list? — A. The money was all paid before one 
of those things were signed by anybody. 

Q. Paid to whom? — A. To the men working there. 

Q. You heard that Walker testified he did not get his money until 
afterwards? — A. He got money paid along. 

Q. If Walker got the money, why make out a voucher in the name of 
Kestler? — A. A mere matter of form. 

Q. Please tell us what was the substance and not a matter of form — 
a serious, substantial thing — in the revenue department? — A. I do not 
understand your question. 

Q. Of swearing to a voucher and getting moue.'v on it? — A. Did not 
get money on it. Never has been money collected on a form. The 
■government did not i)ay on the voncher, only for those pai^ers showing 
the money spent by the collector in running his office. 

Q. When a collector takes a voucher from one of his deputies and 
■sends it off to the department he gets credit on his compensation ac- 
count? — A. They adjust the account according to his vouchers, showing 
liow much he had — what they allowed him at first. 

Q. I have asked you, and will ask you once more, if the signing of a, 
sworn voucher, or a voucher required to be sworn to by law, in order to 
obtain pay for the services of a deputy or ganger, was a matter of fprm, 
what was a matter of substance connected with the revenue department 
there? — A. Never signed one to get pay, for the money was allowed be- 
fore the voucher went there. 

Q. How did the deputy get his pay? — A. From Dr. Mott. 

Q. How would he show Dr. Mott that he had done the work? — A. By 
his reports, and Dr. Mott knew all his deputies. 

Q. He did not know whether the man worked all the time or not? — 
A. He hired them. 

Q. How about the ganger who ganged a lot of whisky? — A. The 
ganger made his report. 

Q. A certified copy? — A. No, sir; service, amount of work done, and 
exi»enses. Dr. Mott did not -pay the ganger at all. 

Q. Take a deputy or clerk; did you not make a man swear to his 
voucher to get that money? — A. He made out a voacher like this. 

Q. Just as a mere matter of form? — A. Made a voucher every three 
months. 

Q. Tell me something not a matter of form ; what kind of voucher in 
connection with a revenue officer was not a matter of form, but some- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 419 

tiling substantial ? — A. I suppose the Fifth Auditor's report 5 the ad- 
justing account was substantial. 

Q. That is not made out in the collector's office? — A. It is about the 
collector's office. 

Q. Tell me something in the collector's office that would be a matter 
•of substance. Let me read you a little more of your testimony (quoting) : 

Q. You swore the other day, when you were examined in chief, that he did know of 
it ; and that it was done for a certain purpose ? — A. That was in the statement I made 
;at tlie time that the office of assessor was abolished — not about the Kestler matter. 

Then the chairman, in quoting from your testimony in chief, says: 

Q. You made these accounts up for these gangers? — A. Yes, sir; made up their 
•vouchers. 

Q. In the case of the deputy collectors you say that was done for the purpose of 
'increasing the estimate, as you have explained? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was known to Dr. Mott ? — A. Yes, sir; known to everybody almost; we 
made no secret of it at all, and I think Mr. Wheeler rather advised to make as big a 
:showing as we could, knowing we had a large district to look after. 

Q. The approval of these vouchers was signed and sworn to by Dr. Mott, as set forth 
in his affidavit, and you can't say that he did not know what he swore to?— A. We 
uever swore each other. • 

That is correct, is it ? — A. Never swore. 
Q. (Quoting.) 

This certificate that it was sworn to, then, is false ? — A. We did not swear to it. 

You dodged there? — A. You wanted to make it appear false, and I 
<lid not consider it so. 

Q. You say that now! — A. I do not consider it so. 

Q. (Quoting.) 

Q. Although the certificate says he did swear to it; then that is a forgery. Did Mr. 
Kestler at anytime authorize you to make out these vouchers for him? — A. I am not 
certain ; a great many of the deputies did. 

A. I had a i^ower of attorney from every officer in the district. 

Q. Had you one of Kestler's? — A. 1 think I had, verbally. 

Q. Why not say so the other day? — A. I said not certain. 

i}. Are you not certain of it? — A. Not certain. 

Q. You hardly had v^erbal authority from a man, and not certain of 
it, that was in the service. If he were not in the service would you 
liave? — A. If he had nevet anything to do with the service never would. 

Q. If he had something to do with it, and was discharged, he hardly 
would give you authority to sign his name? — A. If he had nothing to 
•do with it he hardly would do such a thing as that. I have written 
powers of attorney in Atlanta from officers and many have been re- 
turned to them. 

Q. Why did you not state before that Dr. Mott did not sign those 
vouchers at all, and never saw them? — A. I think I did, sir — what 
you have been asking about through this investigation. 

Q. No you did not. I cannot find any testimony in which you state 
he did not sign any of them at all. I will read you a little more from 
jour examination the first time (quoting) : 

Q. You say that Dr. Mott did not know about making up these Kestler accounts? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. In your direct examination you said he did know what was spoken of then ; 
that was after ? — A. That happened in 1873 ; a different matter. I did not speak of 
the Kestler matter at all in the examination the other day. 

By the Chairaian: 
Q. You spoke generally of the deputies' accounts, and he was a deputy? — A. I had 
forgotten it — about auotLer deputy; had not thought about it for ten years, and said 
1 would have to make an explanation to the committee. 



420 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. In refrard to Mr. Kestler ? — A. Yes, sir. 
Q. Which is the explanation you make here now f — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Then you wish your explanation to stand, that Dr. Mott knew of all the rest of 
the accounts made out except Kestler's ? — A. He knew all of 1873 when we took the 
Touchers for so many. He knew of them, but the other matter 

Q. Which other matter? — A. The Kestler matter. 

Q. The Kestler matter was in '72 or '73? — A. It was in '72 or early part of '73; the 
assessor's office was abolished about the lOtii of May, '73. I think he was in then. 

..You say lie knew all of them in '73 ? — A. He knew a great many. 1 
did not expect it to sound that way. 

Q. That is another mistake? — A. We talked of Martin and Lilling- 
ton, but not entirely about them, about putting them in the old account. 
All knew that Kestler had been in before. 

Q. (Quoting). 

A. He knew of them, but the other matter- 



Which other matter? — A. The Kestler matter. 
Q. The Kestler matter was m '72 or '73? — A. It was in '72 or early part of '73 ; the 
assessor's office was abo.ished about the 10th of May, '73. I think he was in then. 

A. We were speakiug of vouchers. I tliink his vouchers were m 
then. 

Q. You don't mean to say that he was in office then ? — A. I thought 
Kestler was in in '73. 

Q. Do you know when H. Y. Mott was paid his money? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you not know when Walker was paid in full? — A. I forget the 
time I paid him the last. I sent it to him. He was paid off and on. 
I had a livery stable in '73 with him. 

Q. Had you paid him in full before he signed that last voucher? — A. 
I don't remember about that; I remember sending the last of the 
money to Illinois. 

Q. The voucher was s,igned in Illinois in August, '74? — A. I don't re- 
member the time I sent it. 

Q. Do you know when those vouchers were filed in the department? — 
A. They were sent after they were received, but nothing paid on them. 

Q. Yon nent out of office after that? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. These amended vouchers were not put in until after Crane's report, 
and you and the gangers were all indicted? — A. I think not. 

Q. How came you to make out vouchers and send them to Illinois^ 
when not in office ? — A. I was a kind of agent for him, and corresponded. 
I had some of his money, and paid for some of his scrapes there, and 
other debts for him. We were trading together all the time. 

Q. You say you think your mistake arose by my holding the wrong: 
voucher? — A. The wrong one. I can tell my writing from Dr. Mott's. 

Q. You looked at all three, and said he did not sign the original, but 
the amended; and you think the mistake arose by my holding the- 
wrong voucher before you ? — A. I say the wrong one. 

Q. Who suggested that to you? — A. JSTo one did. 

Q. No one suggested that to you at all after you came here ? — A. I 
was surprised that I had sworn that Dr. Mott had signed the original. 

Q. Did anybody doubt that Dr. Mott had signed the amendecrone? — 
A. I never heard that. 

Q. A^iid therefore the only question was about the original ? — A. Na 
question about the original, only the amended. 

Q. You think the mistake arose by Dr. Mott signing a voucher, which 
he admitted and everybody else admitted, and not the, one in disi)ute?^ — 



TllfcJ SIXTH DISTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 421 

A. Tliat is it. The doctor writes a heavier haud tliau I do — writes a 
Biervoiis haiKl. 

(). This is the certificate that I called your attention to: ''Sworn to 
and subscribed before n\e this 11th day of January, 1873"; and you say 
that it is not true. Maybe you will agree to that. He was not sworn ?^ 
A. I say he was not sworn to that original. 

Q. And the same is true for all three — the last quarter of 1872 and 
tiie two first quarters of 1873? — A. Yes, sir; I say tliat. 

Q. The complaint I liave with you is, that you did not tell us this 
before?— A. I think I did. 

Q. Do you solemnly swear that nobody suggested to you that that 
vas the way you had made a mistake ? — A. I don't know about it. 1 think 
when I got here this time, I was surprised tliat I had said that Dr. 
Mott had signed the origiinil. It so, I did not so intend it; I did not 
«o consider it, and must have looked at the wrong paper. 

Q. I asked you if somebody di<l not suggest that you looked at the 
wrong one? — A. I think Mr. Pool might have said there was some mis- 
understanding in it; might have done so; don't say for certain; we were 
talking about it. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q, Does it make the slightest difference whether you made a mistake, 
or you looked at the wrong pai)er, or whether on account of its not being 
taken down, or any other reason? — A. I suppose not. 

Q. Was it not possible when the vouchers were handed you, that you 
were looking at a different one from the one the person handing called 
your attention to? — A. That Avas easy done on these, where a person 
signs the back and front of. a paper. 

Q. The whole bundle taken together?— A. I will explain that. I 
signed one side, and the other side was signed by Dr.^Iott. There is 
one si<le (indicating) and there is another. 

Q. Did I or anybody else suggest what you were to answer to in this 
connection? — A. No, sir. 

Q. I think Mr. Dwire got confused about it. It appears in the testi- 
mony of Mr. Dwire that he stated that he behevedDr. Mott signed one 
of those papers; was it possible for him to have been speaking about 
another ])aper, not meaning the one that his attention was attempted 
to be called to? — A. I don't know, sir. I suppose he ought to know Dr. 
Mott's signature. 

Q. Now a bundle of pa])ers i)lace(l before him signed on both sides, 
ami his attention being called to them, might he not mistake which ac- 
count was the amended or not? — A. I think so; he must have made a 
mistake of that kind. 

Q. Do you know if these papers handed to you when you were re- 
quired to say whether it was the signature of Dr. Mott or not, were 
simply designated by ''this paper" or "that paper"? — A. I think that 
is the way they were put to me — did I sign "this" or " that" ? 

Q. Not explained as " this is theamended" and " that is the original"? — 
A. I think not. 

Q. You say you went away without having read this testimony? — A. 
Y"es, sir; I was anxious to leave. I was examined Saturday and left 
Saturday night. 

Q. Have you not found some complaint made to you by the stenog- 
rapher that you answered in too low a tone? — A. Yes, sir; many times 
to-day. 

Q. He has done that very often before? — A. I think it was done. I 
remember speaking louder when here before. 



422 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Is it not possible that some of your answers have been takei*] 
down wrong- in that way? — A. Such things might happen. 

Q. It seems that none of these vouchers were sworn to by Dr. Mott — I 
these originals — and you say you signed them as being sworn to, though^ 
he did not swear to them; did not that apply to all the vouchers sent 
up here as well as to Mr. Kestler's? — A. This applied to the whole of 
the accounts. 

Q. Do you not think that ran clear up to the time Mr. Crane made his; 
report? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. 

Q. Do you not know it ran up to that time? — A. Don't just now. 

Q. So that with all the officers this was the understandijig, that these- 
vouchers were handed in and sent off as a mere matter of form, there 
being no possibility of the office being deceived here ? — A. That is my 
understanding of it. 

Q. Do you know what Mr. Horah says about it? — A. In speaking of 
this — after I was clerk for Dr. Mott — of signing these -v^ouchers and 
talking of it generally, he said he had done it often — signed ganger's- 
names to accounts in order to ])ut his reports in as required before the 
10th or 15th of the month, and he had ijot heard of any trouble about 
that, and no one can say but that John M. Horah is an influential man 
in Eowan County ; he is the clerk of the court in Salisbury. 

Q. He was in Mr. Wiley's office? — A. He was clerk under Wiley all 
the time he was collector. 

Q. You were clerk in Collector Young's office and district, and the 
same thing was done there? — A. Yes, sir; did the same thing there;, 
that is where I got the idea; I never thought it was any harm; never 
heard of any. 

Q. Your testimony was read to you, in which you said that papers 
were sometimes shown to Dr. Mott and examined by him, and sometimes, 
not? — A. That has reference to the entire revenue business, I think. I 
don't think it had reference to this special business. 

Q. Did not Dr. Mott sign a great many papers except these vouchers? 
— A. When I was clerk, there were 122 reports made up quarterly. 

Q. You meant it to apply to all these? — A. Yes, sir; that is what I 
meant; to the general accounts of the office — reports, rather. 

Q. One hundred and twenty-two a month? — A. 122 a month, and 
quarterly. 

Q. Would it not be very difficult for the collector to give his personal 
attention to them and swear to the truthfulness of them all ? — A. Yes^ 
sir; I think so, so much of it, and very few do it in this country. 

Q. Do not the absolute necessities of the service require the law to be 
disregarded in this respect ?— A. Yes, sir ; I think so ; it is impossible 
for the collector to be right on hand all the time for the reports, and 
they would be sometimes delayed. 

Q. You said that no report was made here of the names of deputies, 
who were in service ; has it not been the fact that the agents 5'f the 
bureau here were continually examining into that and reporting upon 
it? — A. They were very often examining the office, the books, and 
accounts. 

Q. Is it not the faet that the deputies, or all who were acting as depu- 
ties, were examined by them and they knew them ? Is it not likely that 
these men would inquire if Kestler was a deputy for eight months or 
more, when his vouchers had been sent in ? — A. I think they would find 
out when they got down there. 

Q. Was not the office actually inspected and these inquiries made by 
the agents from time to time ? — A. I should think so. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 423 

Q. In point of fact, do not these agents come along from time to time 
and inquire into this thing '?— A. Yes, sir; all the time, I think, since I 
left; there are a great many more officers than there was ; we had agents 
there very often to examine as to the correctness of the money collected 
and disbursed. 

Q. You were continually on the lookout for agents? — A. Yes, sir; 
never knew when they were coming — never notified. 

Q. Did they not inquire what officers were in service? — A. Yes, sir; 
had to know what was going on. Those examiners did not pay much 
attention to that. The revenue agents that came looked around. 

The Chairman. I confined myself to reading his former testimony on 
this very point. You are inquiring into the general agents. 

Mr. Pool. You made a point on it. 

The Chairman. He swore to that before that it was done in the fourth 
district. 

Mr. Pool. I do not recollect that he did. You asked him in your 
cross-examination if there was any report made to the bureau — whether 
they knew that Mr. Kestler was not an officer. In reply to it I am en- 
deavoring to show that in all probability the bureau here did know. 

The Chairman. You are asking what is usually done in all their 
offices, and everything. 

Mr. Pool. That is in explanation of the witness's answer that he 
considered it a mere matter of form, and it was so considered by the de- 
partment and among other offices. It seems to me the witness would 
be corroborated by the bureau itself. 

Q. You were asked by the chairman why you made the mistake of 
sending off vouchers in Kestler's name instead of Walker's; was it simply 
a mistake of yours? — A. I suppose it must have been ; could certainly 
make nothing by it. 

Q. Is it not right for a man to give a reason for a mistake ? — A. I 
suppose so; it happened that way, and had no intention of defrauding. 

Q. You know of no other reason to give why j-ou did make this mis- 
take? — A. No. 

D. C. Pearson recalled and made the following statement (examin- 
ing abstracts) : 

I am very well acquainted with the doctor's handwriting. All these 
clerks do sign his name very similar to his own signature. The differ- 
ence I recognize in this signature (indicating) is more in the letter "M." 
It begins higher in his own signature than in that. I see this is marked 
"original." I see that difference in the letter M on the amended 
voucher which I had in my hand from the signature in the original. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. In what respect ? — A. It is larger, and begins higher up. In the 
amended I would take that to be Dr. Mott's own signature. I would 
not take that in the original — the one I have in my hand — to be his 
signature. Mr. Cole and Mr. Brown all sign his name somewhat sim- 
ilar to himself. I don't know who signed that. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Have you noticed each quarter ? — A. I hold in my hand another 
paper — one marked "original" and the other amended. I recognize 
the same difference in these two papers that I did in the other in the 
letter M. 

Q. What quarter is that? — A. Ending June, 1873. 



424 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

By Senator McDill : 
Q. Please say which you think is the geiiuiue siffDature.— A. I would 
take that to the auieuded one as the signature of the doctor, aud that 
to the original as not. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Examine the next quarter. 

By the Chairman (handing paper to witness) : 

Q. Is that Dr. Mott's signature (indicating) ?— A. As I told you, these 
gentlemen sign his name very much like he does. That is not like his 
signature— like the one I designated as his. 

Q. Is that the doctor's or not (indicating another)? — A. I don't think 
it is. . 

Q. Is that the doctor's or not? — A. That is not, in my opinion. 

Q. Is that (indicating another)?— A. That I would take to be. 

Q. Now, is that (indicating another)?— A. I would consider that as 
his handwriting, 

Q. What quarter is that ?— A. I was not going by the "amended" 
and the "original" in my judgment of it. This 'is dated October 10, 
1873. ' 

Dr. MoTT. Do you not discover in those hands a different run from 
the pen, more ease in one signature? 

The WiTiNESS. I discovered the difference not so much from that, but, 
as I have stated, in the letter M and the crossing of the " t." You run 
your cross too low from the top of the "t." 

Dr. MoTT. Do 3*ou notice a nervousness in one? 

The Witness. Your own signature seems to me not so smoothly 
written as the other. I am not an expert in handwriting, Init I have 
had a great deal of experience in handwriting as clerk of the court. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. You haye examined the signatures to the originals of the three 
quarters? — A. Yes, sir; I presume so; those seems to be the papers. 

Q. And you say you think it is not Dr. Mott's handwriting on the 
originals ? — A. That is my opinion. 

Q. You have examined the amended vouchers for the three quarters — 
the signatures to the same? — A. I think they are his signatures. 

Q. Are you well acquainted with his handwriting? — A. I am, sir. 

Q. So that you could it tell wherever you saw it ?— A. I think I could, 
sir. 

Q. And you feel competent to give an intelligent judgment between 
a signature of Dr. Mott's and one forged ?— A. Yes, sir ; I think 1 could. 
The difference between those two signatures is quite marked. 

Q. You do not think it would require an expert to see that difference ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Mr. Pool. There is nothing further on that point we want to put in. 

Adjourned until Monday, July 17, at 10 a. m. 



Washington, D. C, Monday, July 17, 1882. 
The committee met at 10 a. m. 
A. T. Davidson sworn and examined for the government. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Where do you reside ?— Answer. I reside at Asheville, N. C 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 425 

Q. What is your profession ?— A. I aiu a lawyer by profession. 

Q. How lon^^ have you been a practicing lawyer ?— A. Thirty-seven 
vears. 

Q. Have you a pretty fair general knowledge of the condition of the 
«ixth district of North'^ Carolina— at least that part of it in which you 
live — in relation to the collection of internal revenue ! — A. I have a gen- 
eral knowledge of the character of the collection district ^vest of the 
Blue Eidge. It is very general, though. 

Q. It has been stated here by witnesses that one of the chief causes 
of trouble in the collection of the internal revenue arises from the con- 
duct of Democratic politicians, newspapers, and speakers in dissatisfy- 
ing the people Avith the revenue laws and encouraging them to resist- 
ance; will you i)lease give the committee your iuformation as to what dis- 
satisfaction there is in the district to the laws, and to the method of their 
execution, and what are the causes for that dissatisfaction and trouble? 
— A. The question is very general. I will undertake to give my opin- 
ion about it, and, of course, it is but an opinion. The system— whether 
it is the system or the execution of it— has been unpopular in that 
country anrl subject to great criticism. There have l)een abuses in the 
manner of executing the law, and there has been resiistance to the law, 
a good deal of it. There have been violations — perhaps a better word — 
of the law ; perliaps the country has been given to that idea. There 
has been a good deal of business in the Federal courts in the execution 
of the internal-revenue system. It is my idea that there have been 
many abuses there, but who is responsible for them I do not know. I 
may use the term that it is unpopular — that is, the manner of executing- 
the law. There is a good deal of opposition to it and political discus- 
sion about it; a good deal of stump-speaking j>ro and co», justifying it, 
and appealing to the people to be loyal to the law ; and there have been 
exposures, not so much of the law as of the manner of its execution. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. There are two classes of revenue officers; a marshal and his 
officers prosecute otenders, and I will be glad if Mr. Davidson will 1)ear 
that fact in mind and make a distinction. — A. I will do so. 

The Chairman. I have no objection to that. 

Mr. Pool. Whether the scope of the power of this committee will 
reach abuses by officers of the court is a question. 

The Chairman. Xo, sir; only so far as it affects the collection of the 
internal revenue would it be a proper subject of inquiry under the reso- 
lution. 

Mr. Pool. Their business was simply with the offenses that were com- 
mitted, without any regard to the revenue or not. 

The Chairman.' The commissioner issues warrants binding over, 
and the marshals make arrests. 

Mr. Pool. None of these officers are connected with the administra- 
tion of the collection of the revenue, which is the expression used in 
the resolution, the ^' administration of the collection of the revenue." 

The Chairman. I do not care to inquire into that branch particu- 
larly, but still, so far as they are connected in any way with the collec- 
tion of the revenue, I think it is a legitimate inquiry. (To the \yitness:) 
You can distinguish, colonel, as you goon, and allude to anything done 
by marshals and revenue officers. 

Mr. Pool. You conline him now to the revenue officers? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

The Witness. Manv of the abuses under the law havebicn by mar- 



426 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

shals, perhaps the most noted of them, that is true. Eeally I am hardly 
able to determine between those who were marshals and those who were 
deputy collectors. I have been trying to think what men belonged to 
each class. I knew nothing of their commissions or powers only as ac- 
cepted by the public. If I understand, Judge Dick — if you will allow 
me to state — made an order as judge that a United States commissioner 
should not issue any process on the application of a marshal, but it 
would be only on the application of a revenue collector. I believe that 
was the rule. I may be mistaken about it. Complaints became so uni- 
versal that Judge Dick did make an order restraining the power of the 
marshals. There seemed to be gangs of men going around hunting 
somebody to arrest, so that Judge Dick issued this order that deputy 
marshals should not go and get out processes, but only execute pro- 
cesses when they came into their hands; that the process should be 
issued only on the application of the revenue collector or on the infor- 
mation of some one who had furnished it to the collector. Out of that 
system grew a great many troubles which were complained of bitterly 
by the people, and in some instances led to almost crime. It amounted 
to crime and rendered the execution of the law very uni^opular, and, I 
may say, odious. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. You mean Judge Dick's order? — A. No; I do not mean the order^ 
but before the order was made. I am speaking of the power of the 
marshals and collectors. I know the complaint was that these marshals 
would go around and make inquisitions and get out processes and the 
judge made this order restraining them from that, and deciding that 
the Commissioner should only issue their warrants on the application of 
the collector, or on information of some one to the collector. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Some one outside of the marshal ? — A. Yes, sir; to deprive them 
of that inquisitorial right to take out processes. It had been greatly 
abused before that. The marshals would go around with blank war- 
rants in their pockets, and hold their courts — a sort of itinerant com- 
missioner holding court — making a regular circuit. It was abused in 
that way until Judge Dick interfered. 

Q. What was the character generally of the revenue officers you were 
acquainted with for peace, good order, &c.? — A. It is very hard to dis- 
criminate who were the revenue officers — we had several bad men in the 
country — and pretty hard to give a general character to a whole com- 
munity. It is very hard to determine that; but the general character 
of the execution of the law was not good, without regard to particular 
individuals, for I do not know of whom I am speaking. It seems to me 
it was in the hands of reckless men who were objectionable to the 
country. 

Q. Was it executed with harshness and A^olence frequently ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; there was a good deal of complaint of that kind. 

Q. Can you give any instances of violence in the execution of it on 
the part of the officers 1 

Mr. Pool. By a revenue officer or a marshal '? 

The Chairman. By the revenue officers. 

A. I have two or three cases in my mind that led to bloodshed and 
homicide; whether they were revenue officers purely or deputy mar- 
shals — it is very hard for me or for anybody to know what positions 
they held. I remember the case of a man by the name of Woods, on 
the Caney Fork of the Tuckaseige. Woods was up in the mountains 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 427 

in tbat country, and I expect he was running an illicit distillery. That 
was the evidence. The case was tried — I can give you the names per- 
haps by a little reflection— a few men went up there, a man by the 
name of J. A. Franks was one of them,Ayith a crowd of armed men,, 
and committed a good deal of violence on his family ; the man had 
taken to the brush ; he was stilling fruit and had a license, perhaps, to 
still fruit, but they found a gallon of mash in his still-house. I remem- 
ber the case. They destroyed his still, and offered some violence to bis- 
family, his wife, I ' believe ; they were undoiibtedly drunk. The evi- 
dence disclosed that fact; they were assuming to execute the law with 
a drunken set of men and they offered some violence to the woman, or 
to his children. The man bad taken to the woods and headed them off 
within a mile or two. He shot at them, and a good deal of excitement 
grew out of that. He was tried at Asbeville and convicted of illicit 
distilling, and of an assault upon the officers, or at least for resisting 
the law. He broke jail and ran away. That is one case down there. 
There was another man, by the name of Dick Burns, who had been en- 
gaged in the traffic himself, perhaps. 1 should not speak of that, if I 
did not know it. He was appointed to some position, whether a mar- 
shal or deputy I do not remember. The charge was that he violated 
the person of a young lady down there, and no doubt he had also in- 
sulted tbe family. He was traveling through the country and was 
killed— shot in the woods. Those are leading cases. 

By Mr. rooL : 

Q. What was his name ?— A. I think it was Richard Burns; they 
called him Dick. I do not know what office he held. I can state that 
he had been a very violent opposer of the revenue before that. It was- 
understood to be a compromise; I think that made him the more objec- 
tionable to the people. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know anything of tlie Andrew Woody case !— A. Yes, sir :. 
I know that well. 

Q. Please state how that was.— A. Andrew and Swan Woody bad 
been indicted for traffic in spirits, and they had been convicted. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Is this a case of a marshal or of a revenue officer ? — A. I do not 
know, sir. 

Dr. MoTT. I can answer tbat, if you will allow ms. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Dr. MoTT. Neither Franks or Burns were in my service. 

The Chairman. They were in tbe service of the Revenue Department. 

Dr. MoTT. No, sir; they were in the service of tbe marshal. Tlio 
Revenue Department had Vo swear out processes for tbe use of the niar-^ 
shal. I never had anything else to do with them. I will also state, if^ 
Mr. Davidson does not know, tbat we have only two deputy collectors 
west of tbe Ridge— Mr. Williams and Mr. Axlej'-except a special dei>- 
uty or two, whose names I do not remember now. 

The Chairman (to tbe committee). What do you say in connection 
with this resolution, in bringing in the conduct of a marshal at all, when 
executing processes given him by revenue officers t 

Senator McDiLL. I suppose the language of the resolution is, "the- 
administration of the collection of reveune " where it goes to tbe offense : 
there it becomes a question of tbe administration of justice. Still they 
are very closely connected. 



428 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

The Chairman. We will omit that for the present. 

Mr. Pool. Would it not be well to expunge it from the record for in- 
competency — what he said about Franks and Burns. 

The Chairman. The men who went to Woods's establishment destroyed 
liis still, &c. : the marshals did not do that. 

Senator McDill. Have any of these cases of bloodshed been reported 
in tlie evidence ? 

The Chairman. ]S"o ; but some similar cases have been spoken of. 

Q. (To the witness.) Do you know of any instance of storekeepers 
dividing- their pay with distillers ?— A. I know only what the distillers 
have told me. 

Q. That is competent for this committee. — A. I know that in one or 
two instances distillers have complained to me that the storekeepers did 
not divide fair; that a part of the contract was that they were to have 
:ji portion of their wages. 

Q. Have you ever been complained to, as the bondsman of a store- 
keeper, for the purpose of making the storekeeper come to terms with 
the distiller ?— A. Yes, sir; I was not applied to as being responsible, 
but I was complained to as a bondsman that my principal had not done 
rightabout it; the storekeeper had not divided his compensation with 
the distiller. 

Q. And the distiller complained to you as his bondsman that he had 
not done it?— A. I do not think he alleged that I was to be responsible 
on my bond, but told me that he w^anted me to interfere, and asked me 
to make him do right by him, which I understood was to divide his com- 
pensation. I have heard of others, bat do not know of any others. I 
have heard there was some arrangement of that sort. 

Q. Will you state whether the officers of the Eevenue Department 
have been active politicians or not?— A. Well, these revenue gentlemen 
I speak of, are the only two called to my knowledge. Mr.'^Asley is very 
active; he is a decided partisan, and I am informed uses his ofliQe for 
political purposes. I do not think he is a bad man. I think he is a 
man of rather quiet, good character, but I understand that he does it, 
and it is complained of very bitterly. 

Q. How about Mr. Williams ?— A. Mr. Williams is a sort of negative 
man. He is a Northern man, and was a stranger in the country. He 
has no following and no relations. He is a sort of fancy man around 
the hotels. I do not know much of him. He is not identified with our 
people. I believe he came from Ohio with Mr. Hunt. He has not identi- 
fied himself with the people. He is rather a quiet man. I have never 
^een anything A^ery bad about him, nothing objectionable in his per- 
soual conduct, but I understand that he manipulates his office, and is an 
active politician. 

Q. Have you known other revenue officers besides these deputy col- 
lectors that you spoke of?— A. Yes; I have known storekeepers to 
use their offices and to have paid their regular assessments for political 
purposes. I have known that for years, at least for some time, and 
the truth is, I had something to do with the settlement of their ac- 
•counts— to draw on the collector; and in getting their accounts settled 
they would be taxed for their political assessments. I have known, 
then, in that way, that they were active in politics, and they always 
allowed their accounts to be taxed in that way without complaint. 

Q. Do you know what office Trail holds there ?— A. I do not ; I think 
he has been in almost every oflice— United States commissioner. I do 
not know whether ever belonging to the collection department or not. 
He is an officious, aggressive man. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 42^ 

Q. He is ail active partisan ?— A. Very active ; lie was very promi- 
nent. 

Q. Do you know .^Ir. Eves, of liutlierford ?— A. 1 barely know liiin.. 

Q. J)o yon know of liiiii? — A. Yes, sir; I know of him. 

Q. He is connected with the revenue department, or has been ? — A.. 
Yes, sir ; connected with the *;overnment. 

Q. Is he an active ])olitician ?— A. Y^es, sir; he is a quiet man, but 
regarded as a leader of the Kepublican party in that part of the country.. 
I liave seen the man often; he seems to be a quiet man, but I do not 
know anythin*^- of him personally other than his general political char- 
acter. 

Q. Can or can you not say that the officers of the revenue dei)art- 
meut constitute, as a general thing, the main working force of the Ile- 
l»ublican party, as organizers, &c. ?— A. I think they constituted the 
organizing force of the Kepublican party. I think that they marshal 
the forces and bring to bear the party machinery. 1 think they are — 
perhaps you may denominate them — the leaders of the party; as a rule 
thev are active partisan men. 

l). Do you think a good deal of the hostility to them arises from their 
political activity as well as the execution of an unpopular law '?— A. I 
think if it was not so entirely connected with politics as it has been the 
enforcement of the law^ would not be so objectionable. I think this 
raises that objection to the enforcement of the law. I want to be al- 
lowed to say in explanation of what I may say, that I do not regard the 
public sentiment there as so violently opposed to the revenue law ; it is. 
odious, of course, because it is very hard and burdensome. People 
object to taxes every wliere ; but I do not think the better sentiment of 
the country, the honest, hard-handed sentiment of the country, would 
show any opposition to the execution of the law. I think the public 
sentiment would yiehl to it if it were jiroperly and prudently enforced.. 
That is my idea. 'l do not speak of myself— I do not give any opinions 
of my own. The people would be mighty glad to get clear of it— the 
law Itself; but while it is a law, and there may be a necessity for it,. 
and all that sort of thing, 1 think the better portion of the public would 
be inclined to yield obedience to it, and act without opposition, perha])Sy 
if it were enforced by men who seemingly were in sympathy with tlie 
public. It hapiiens that the better portion of the community have very 
little to do with it. 

Q. They do not deal in and distill any whisky ?— A. They do" not 
generally pay much revenue. They do not manufacture whisky or 
tobacco. Perhai)S nineteen out of twenty have very little to do with 
the public revenue, an<l therefore they have very little to say oneway 
or the other. And they are not the men — the body of the ])ublic — that 
you see in the Federal courts ; they have very little to do with the mar- 
shals; their names are not on the criminal docket. I think as a rule that 
is strictly true ; hence we are surprised when we go to the Federal courts, 
to tind such an assemblage of the population in the public square, and 
strangers are surprised by it and think that we ought to have a better 
people. 

Q. Mr. Ilaum, the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, swore here 
the other day that it was unsafe for a well-dressed stranger to ride 
through that district without giving some assurance that lie was not 
connected with that service. 

Senator Mitchell. Some years ago that was so, but now he said it 
was different. 

The Chairman. Xow he sai<l it was different; what do you say to- 



430 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

that"? — A. It was never so. I, perhaps, ought to characterize it stronger 
than that — it is not true. There was no public sentiment of that kind 
there. 

Q. Have you ever known, by reputation or otherwise, of any case of 
assault upon the officers of that department, that did not have some 
violent provocation for it — not legal perhaps — but such as you have re- 
lated in the Burns case^ — A. Some moral provocation. I remember 
Tiaving to defend a man in the courts, by the name of Allman, for kill- 
ing a man by the name of Gunter. I remember that there has always 
Ibeeu some provocation insisted upon by the citizens, seeming to be 
more of a moral provocation than a legal one. Hence they are gener- 
ally found to be M^rong in the courts. I think that is about the state- 
ment I would make about that. 

Q. By some sort of a moral provocation you mean some insult or 
unnecessary violence or harshness? — A. Yes, sir; there is a great com- 
plaint in this regard there. The officers of the government under our 
statutes are allowed to go armed. They display their weapons some- 
what. The citizen cannot be armed. It is an indictable offense in our 
State to carry arms, and they complain that they are intimidated by 
this demonstration of arms, and that they are put at disadvantage in 
rencounters between officers and citizens. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You mean concealed weapons, in speaking of the law ? — A. Yes, 
sir; that is our statute. 

Q. Concealed weapons, not arms? — A. Yes, sir; but the statute is so 
construed that no arms at all, unless it is a musket or shot-gun, can be 
carried. A man cannot carry a pistol. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. He can buckle them around his sides'? — A. Yes, sir; he can carry 
side-arms. He may carry a musket or a double-barrel shot-gun on his 
shoulder, and that would not be a violation of the law. I will say, in 
justice to the service, that the trouble has not been so great iu the last 
two or three years. It has quieted down somewhat, and the criminal 
dockets of the Federal courts have been much lessened within that time. 
Perhaps familiarity with the law, and a returning sense of right on the 
subject with the officers and the citizens, may have — 1 do not know 
what — produced this better state of things now. But that any of our 
people, as a community, have joined in public demonstration against 
the execution of the law, there is no such public sentiment, and no en- 
couragement given to it. 

Q. If you have sufficient knowledge of the facts, will you say whether 
the regions where most of the disturbances have occurred are Demo- 
cratic or Eepublican ? — A. The question is so general that it would be 
very hard for me to answer just now without reflection. 

Q. I will ask it in this way : The men whom you have seen brought 
to the courts from up there for violation of the law, have they been con- 
fined to one political party or distributed among all parties — the offend- 
ers of the law — the men charged with such violations ? — A. The com- 
plaint has been that the Democratic side has been persecuted the most. 
Whether that is the fact now, I do not know. There has been that sort 
of complaint, that in the remote communities where you find a Demo- 
cratic settlement, that they were raided upon and treated improj)erly 
because of their politics. 

Q. I thought, perhaps, from your personal knowledge, that you would 
know something of the political complexion of those brought to trial. — 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 431 

A. Yes ; most of those whom I have defended have beeu Democrats ; but 
i»y personal observation and experience is that I have" defended nine 
democrats to one Eepublican. But that may be the case because they 
name to me, not because it was any reasonable fractional portion of 
those who were on the docket. It would not be fair for me to say that 
they were prosecuted because they were Democrats ; but the}' complained 
of it in that way. 

Q. The Kepublicaus were let ofl'^the Democrats prosecuted for the 
same thing! — A. They say so; that is the sentiment. Many striking- 
oases have been put to me in that way. They would come to me full of 
fire and blaze because they had a difficulty with, perhaps, some olJicer 
on election day, and they were arrested the next day, or something of 
that sort. 

Q. You only undertake to say about those for whom you have ap- 
peared? — A. Yes, sir; the majority of this number were Democrats. 
They generally alleged that they were prosecuted because they were 
Democrats, unless they got into very serious trouble, where their neck 
was involved ; then they generally came to me without regard to poli- 
tics. 

Mr. Pool. 1 understand that the testimony relating to the marshal 
and his officers is not competent here; but there is a good deal of it on 
the record. I would like for it to be stricken from the record. 

The CHAIR3IAN. It has not been decided yet. 

Senator McDill. I would not like to exclude testimony unless it 
-was very irrelevant. While I think the administration of justice is a very 
different thing from the administration of the collection of the revenue, 
jet there is another branch of the resolution as to inquiries in regard to 
the resistance of the revenue which appears to me to be i^ertinent. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool: 

Q. You spoke of Mr. Franks, and said you did not know whether he 
was a deputy marshal or a revenue officer; is not Mr. Franks a sheriff 
now? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Of what county ? — A. Swayne. 

Q. By what majority is that county Democratic ! — A. I don't know, 
sir. 

Q. Very largely ? — A. I do not know that. I know he is sherift. 

Q. Elected by*^ the people! — A. I think so, yes, sir; he was first 
appointed by the commissioners — perhaps there was a vacancy — but 
then at a regular election he was elected. I thiok he turned Democrat 
about that time. I saw him the other day, and he said he was a Dem- 
ocrat. At the time of this alleged trouble he was a very different man 
then — on the other side. 

Q. The people seem to think that turning Democrat rather condones 
liis offense! — A. I suppose so, in that community. I think I could ex- 
plain that better, i^erhaps, in another way. It is a poor county, and 
very remote. It was very difficult to get a sheriff' — one who was capa- 
We of executing the office; and Mr. Franks had had some knowledge of 
public business, and had repented, he said, and they took him on trial. 
The truth of it is, it is very hard in that county to give a bond. 

Q. Who was Mr. Franks' opponent before the people! — A. I do not 
l^now, sir. 

Q. Do you pretend to say his opponent was not a competent man ? — 
A. I could not say that, but it was a very hard matter to get a sherift". 

Q. Do you not think the county could furnish one other man besides 
Mr. Franks for sherift! — A. I do not know about that; I know the of- 
fice has been vacant for uionths. 



432 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Bj the CHAiE:vrAN: 
Q. Ou account of the difficult}^ of filing a bond? — A. Yes, sir; I do 
not know what was the trouble; but the sheriff's father (J. D. Franks) 
lives in Macon, and is a man of property and can aflbrd to go ou his. 
son's bond, and make a good bond, I think that is the reason he was 
appointed sheriff, and then his business capacities, and I tbink he has 
made a good sheriff. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. You mentioned one instance where you were told that a store- 
keeper divided his pay with a distiller? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were told that by the distiller himself? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He was complaining of it? — A. Yes; that the storekeeper did not 
divide fair. 

Q. Did he say that the storekeeper had promised to ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know that that storekeeper did promise to? — A. I do not^ 
he never told me so. 

Q. Did he not den^^ it? — A. I do not think. I had any interview with 
him about it. 

Q. The only instance you know of division was one storekeeper wha 
promised to divide his pay and did not do it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You know of no other instance? — A. No, sir; I never was a wit- 
ness to any such contract. Of course I would not know it. 

Q. Is Mr. Axley a man of good character? — A. Yes, sir; I would say 
his general character is good. 

Q. Is Mr. Williams a man of good character? — A. Mr. Williams is a 
sort of negative character. He has no character formed. I do not 
know much of him. 

Q. I observed when you mentioned revenue officers, Messrs. Axley and. 
Williams, and one or two others, while you said that they were active 
part}" men, you always said they were quiet men ? — A. Mr. Axley is a 
man of a good deal of j)olicy — a smart man — very quiet and unobtrusive 
in his general manner, and very active when in politics. 

Q. But still quiet? — A. Not a bit of violence about the man. 

Q. Would not that indicate that the collector was selecting quiet and 
inoffensive men to execute the revenue law?^A. I do not know that 
that follows. I do not say that that is so. I think that he has got 
some men about him who are rather regarded as violent men. 

Q. I notice each one identified by you as revenue officers you said 
were quiet men. — A. I do not know any man sent down there except 
Mr. Axley — except the storekeepers and distillers ; but I know that Mr. 
Axley often is surrounded by a very violent set of men, while he is a 
quiet man himself; and we have had some trouble with them in that 
community. I do not know what office they hold, or how they are con- 
nected with the department at all; but Mr. Axley is a man of good char- 
acter, and a quiet man. 

Q. How are the storekeepers in that respect, about quietness ? — A. I 
am speaking of Mr. Axley's department. He does not come to Ashe- 
ville. He is out in Cherokee County — Clay. 

Q. How around you at Asheville, where you live, and seventy-five or 
a hundred miles outside? — A. There is no violence about Asheville in 
the execution of the law. The fact is, the men in our county have not 
been indicted very much. They had very little to do in the county of 
Buncombe with these matters. The difficulty has been along the South 
Carolina line. 

Q. I am not asking you about population, but about the officers. — A. 
I do not know of any officers there except Mr. Williams. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. ^ 433 

Q. You know of storekeepers ? — A. I know Mr. Cannon. 

Q. Are tliey quiet, inottensive men — the storekeepers? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You said if the revenue laws had been executed with a little more 
discretion and consideration they would not be so objectionable to the 
Democrats? — A. I think not. I said to the pul)lic, perha|)S. 

Q. You used the term "Democrats." — A. I did not mean that. I 
meant to the ]niblic. 

Q. You said those officers did not seem to have any sympathy with 
the public. What sort of sympathy with the public would you require 
them to have in the execution of the law? — A. 1 would require them — 
my idea was that men of character, standing, means, and social position 
should have been appointed for the execution of the law, and that it 
would then not have been of so much objection to the public ; men re- 
sponsible to society for their conduct. 

Q. Men who have property? — A. I do not mean that. I did not say 
that. I said answerable to public sentiment. 

Q. To public sentiment ? — A. Answerable in their social relations in 
life. I do not mean to say that a poor man may not be a genteel man. 
I do not mean to say that a revenue otiflcer cannot be a gentleman, 
neither. 

Q. Of course you do not mean to intimate that an officer ought to 
have any such sympathy with violators of the law that he would be 
lenient in the prosecution of their offenses ? —A. No, sir ; I do not mean 
that. I mean to say this: We had some deputy marshals there avIio 
have executed their i^rocesses without comi)laint, and have done their 
duty fully, completely, and satisfactorily. We have had a few of those. 

Q. Do you know of any want of s^nnpathy with the public on the part 
of revenue officers for Avhich a complaint could justly be made ? — A. 
Know of any particular cases ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Name it, please. — A. I know of Mr. Williams having gone down 
into the country there. The complaints have generally been of the de- 
struction of property. 

Q. Of what kind ? — A. Of property, aud the rigul manner of execut- 
ing the law and making arrests. 

Q. The revenue officers did not make arrests? — A. He seizes the still 
and makes inquisition. He looks out for these things. It is his duty 
to do it, I believe. 

Q. It is his duty to inform where the offense is committed? — A. I 
know a bitter coraiilaint was made of him as to the manner of executing 
the law. 

Q. What was the particular feature in his manner complained of? — 
A. He was harsh in his intercourse with the people and rough in his 
expressions, and had no social intercourse with anybody. 

Q. It was his duty, however, to destroy illicit stills? — A. I understand 
that. 

Q. That would require violence? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You would not suppose the owner of a still would take that very 
coolly? — A. I suppose not. 

Q. Perhaps the complaint was more of the destruction of his still than 
of the words used while it was being destroyed? — A. I do not know 
what he said. 

Q. Was not the main complaint that he was a Northern man, a carpet- 
bagger, aud made objectionable arrests of these people ? — A. That is not 
the main complaint. It is complained that he was a Northern man; 
S. Mis. IIG 28 



434 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

»■ 

that he came there without responsibility to the public, and had no 
sympathy for them in their wants or character. 

' Q. I understood you these violators of the law — distillers and others — 
were the worst part of the community ; so much so that their presence 
at court attracted unfavorable notice from strangers"? — A. I think so. 

Q, When the worst part of the community are violating the law of 
the country, I wilh ask you if it is obligatory on a public officer to be 
regardful of his manners and genteel in prosecuting that class? — A. I 
would say he needed not to be a Chesterheld, but he ought to conduct 
himself as a gentleman. 

Q. In what respect did Mr. Williams fail in that? — A. I do not knowj 
I never was there. 

Q. You said you heard? — A. I have heard of it. I never heard Will- 
iams say so, but it is generally so regarded. 

Q. Is it not very likely that prejudicial rumors would be started 
against what is called a carpet-bagger who was holding otfice? — A. I 
do not think that it is gener'al; at an early date, perhaps, that prejudice 
did exist. I do not think it does now. W^e have a great many North- 
ern men in our midst, 

Q. I mean of those who were holding office? — A. Our people do not 
like for strangers to come in there and hold an office. 

Q. That may account for a good deal said against Mr. Williams? — A. 
It might, and then it might not. I do not think that is the reason of it 
wholly. 

Q. You are yourself a Democrat, of course? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you said a good many of the persons who were prosecuted 
came to you as Democrats? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. 

Q. You could not tell about the proportion, though ; they might be at- 
tracted to you on account of your politics ? — A. Yes, sir; being a Demo- 
crat, I had'a very large practice ; was pretty extensively known through- 
out that country; had practiced there a long time. 

Q. You did not want to be understood that nine to one of the violat- 
ors of the law were Democrats ? — A. I did not mean to be understood 
that way. 

Q. Then these Democrats who violated the law came to you because 
you were a Democrat, and told you they were prosecuted because they 
were Democrats? — A. No; that is too broad. They comi^lained that 
others who were not Democrats were let oft". 1 can give you an instance 
in support of this statement. I had a lawsuit for a man by the name 
of Coward, who came to me ; he had been indicted. He was informed 
on by a man by the name of Wike. He said he had been up in the 
mountains to a still, and that as he came down otf the mountains he 
was met in the evening by Wike. It was the time when the election 
was going on, or something of that sort, and that he had a jug of 
whisky that he had got up in the mountains at an illicit still. Wike 
said he wanted some whisky for sickness. He was four or five miles from 
the still-house. Coward did not want to let him have the liquor, and 
said he was taking it home for his own use. Finally the man let him 
have a quart, for which he gave him at the rate of a dollar a gallon ; 
that was the evidence. He immediately went to the United States com- 
missioner and had Coward arrested. As I understood him, the charge 
was political prosecution, because he was a Democrat ; and that is an 
illustration of what I said. 

Q. Who was Mr. Wike ? — A. I do not know his politics ; I do not 
know anything about him. That is what is alleged. That is an illus- 
tration of what they complained to me about — that sort of evidence. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 435 

lie was convicted, and General Grant i)ardoned him on that state of 
alT;iirs. He was in jn-ison six months and fined $1,000. It was not nn- 
comnion to liear of them being arrested on some pnblic oc(«ision, when 
there was ])nl)lic si)eakin.i»' and a political harangne going on. 

(^>. For the violation of the revenne law? — A. Yes, sir. 

C^). Yon mean arrested by marshals, of course? — A. Yes, sir; for vio- 
lation of law, illicit distilling, and so on. 

Q. That is rather an inaccessible section of the country, and if a mar- 
shal had a warrant against him it would be very hard for the marshal to 
t\iid him, generally, and arrest him, if he chose to keep out of his way ? — 
A. It is a remote mountain region, but not so inaccessible as may be 
supposed. I do not think it is. I have been accustomed to it. 

Q. Was not a public gathering a very convenient place for marshals 
to find the men and arrest those for whom they had warrants? — A. YeS, 
sir; it might save them from riding eight or ten miles. 

Q. Was there auytliing improper about arresting a criminal, if he had 
a warrant for him, at a public gatliering? — A. I think not, sir. 

Q. Yet this man came to you and said it was political prosecution? — 
A. It was the character of their complaints. 

Q. ^Vould not that indicate to you that their idea of political prosecu- 
tion was rather frivolous ? — A. I do not think there was anything wrong- 
in making arrests on a public day. 

Q. They seemed to have the idea that when they came out to hear a 
Democratic speech they ought to be free from arrest? — A. They gener- 
ally complained that these arrests were made with a view to attract 
their attention away from the discussion and produce a conflict between 
the parties and produce excitement; that was the general complaint ; 
however just it was I do not know. 

Q. They seemed to have some sort of impression that when thej^ came 
out to hear speeches they should be exempt from arrest. — A. They gen- 
erally comi)lained that these men rode over the country controlling the 
politics and throwing obstacles in their way, and the indictment grew 
out of that ; whether true or false I do not know. 

Q. You set ont by saying there were some abuses on the part of the 
officers in the execution of the law. I suppose you mean revenue laws. 
Xow, can you name anj" particular ^instance where a revenue ofticer 
abused his authority as an officer? — A. I cannot discriminate between 
marshals and revenue officers to lay down particular cases. I know of 
a great many abuses, but whether they^ were by revenue men or mar- 
shals I cannot say. 

Q. You do not know of any particular case on the part of Mr. Williams, 
Axley, or the storekeeper you have named ? — A. ]^o, sir. 

Q. Yon are, then, unable so to discriminate between marshals whose 
duty was to make arrests, and revenue officers that you could not say 
there was any instance in which a revenue officer abused his author- 
ity? — A. Only what I understood they have assumed to do; whether 
they had the power to do it or not I do not know. I think I can safely 
say that the marshals assumed to execute the revenue — I think, per- 
haps, they assumed that without authority. 

Q. To the exteut of arresting the offenders against the revenue '? — A. 
I think Burns got killed without any jjrocess in his hands. 

Q. He was a Democrat? — Xo, sir; he had been. 

Q. He was a deputy marshal ? — A. I think he was acting as deputy 
marshal. He attempted to make an arrest, and it was in evidence that 
he had no process. 

Q. Yon would not hold the collector of internal revenne responsible 



436 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL EE VENUE IN 

for him' — A. I do not hold anything us a witness. 1 do not know any- 
thing abont that. 

By the CuAiu:\rAN. May be it woukl simplify that thing by asking 
the witness if there was any revenno otiicer along with Bnrns *? — A. I 
do not think there was. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. Did yon have any reason to believe the collector of internal revenne 
was in any way implicated in it? — A. Unless Bnrns had some authority 
from tlie revenne department; I know of no authority as a revenue 
olticer that he attempted to exercise, lie simi)ly came along there, and 
these i>eople had some Jngs of whisky in the liigliway. lie attemi)ted to 
seize them, and got shot. They had been to a still-house, and had a 
Jug with them. I api)eared for the defense in the case, and tlie point 
was, (he ollicer had no authority to seize or make arrests; but he was 
connected with the revenne in some way. 1 think it was shown that he 
was a (h^puiy marshal, or that he was in the act of discluxrginghisduty. 
lie assumed to seize tlie liquor and take it from the men. 

Q. Then he committed an assault, of course? — A. I sujipose so; the 
defense consisted in that. I remember that distinctly. 

Hon. A. C. AvEKY sworn and examined by the governnuMit. 
By the Chairman: 

Q. AVhere do you reside! — A. I live in JMorgaiiton, N. C. 

Q,. AVhat position in the State government do you at present hold ? — 
A. Judge of the eighth judicial district sui)crior court. 

Q. That is pretty near the center of the sixth collection district, where 
you live? — A. Yes, sir; nearly so. 

Q. Have you had a pretty fair opportunity of observing the workings 
of the internal -revenue system of collection of revenne, and through 
intercourse with the i)eople and their complaints, tS:c. ? — A. I have had 
no connection with the internal-revenue service, ami no personal obser- 
vation of the conduct of the otlicers about the distilleries or anything of 
that kind: but u}) to four years ago, when 1 went on the bench, I Inul 
practiced in the Federal courts and defended a large number of ])ersons 
indicted in my country. That drew my attention to the execution of the 
law. AVhat I know since of its oj^eration within the last few years is 
probably almost exclusively what I have heard from others. 

Q. \\[\\ you gi\e the committee, if you please, your statement, such 
as you may be able to do, of the general condition of things with refer- 
ence to the execution of the law; how it is regarded by the i)eople; 
whether or not it is unpopular; and if so, why? And the general char- 
acter of the nu'u who executed it; the manner in which it is executed, 
^:c. — A. The law has been unpopular from the very close of the war up 
to the present time since it went into operation. Do you ask the reasons 
why it has been uni)opular ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. So far as 1 kiu)w, 1 think, in the first instance, the 
law was unpopular generally anu^ng onr people, at least those who w^ere 
affected by it, because it was something new. A large portion of our 
people in many sections had been accustomed to make whisky and ap- 
ple brandy, and relied upon it for support, and the imposition of these 
taxes — for at that time it was impossible to start small distilleries, they 
could not oi»erate under the law — broke into their habits of a lifetime. 
That made it odious, and I think it was made still nun"e odious by the 
manner of its execution. And now I think more recently it is odious to 



TIIIO SIX'I'H J)ISrilICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 461 

i.1 j^rc.iil many of ilic. Ix^ttcr (5la.ss of our jx'.oplc. bftcaiise tlui inaimcr of 
its (',xo<;utioii tlicy feel is having- a <l(uiioiaIiziiij;' oflcct ui)on tlic coimtrv. 

(). How so? — A. I ciiiiMot speak of my own kiiowl«'(l^(^ ; I can onl>' 
fjivo imjncssions, so far as I dciiNcd llicm from people in difleriMit (;oMn- 
ties; (Inrin;;- tills spi-in^' I lia\'(Hiel(l eonits in ten eonnties in the (lis 
trict. Tlie idcii of ii j^reat m:iiiy int<'lli;^('nt men to whom I have, talked 
ami whom I h}i\'<' heiird tnlk njion the subject is that l)loekji(lin<;', iis 
they term it, is less common th;in it wiis formerly ; but the idea is now 
that they <'jui m!inii<^'e ^(»\<'inment distilleiies and make more; profit 
than they could by b]o(-k;i(lin^, ;in<l it is generally l)y iivoidin;^' tlu' law. 
Whether tluit be so or not I do not know of my own ])erson;il knowl- 
cdo-e. 

Q. You ar(^ j;ivin<;' a ^enei-al impr(!Ssion? — A. And the impression of 
the people is that tlie ex<'cution of the law is deinoralizin<»' thei)eoplein 
this way; that this j^cncral imi)r(%ssion, (;\'eryvvhere tiuit 1 have ^one, 
that the storekeejx'rs are dividinj^ with tin; distiller-s, and the fa(;t that 
the fTovernment is fniiiishin^' in storek(M'p(M's' wa^es a hir^e, portion of 
the fund that runs these small distilleries, it is understood that titese 
stor(;k(;e])ers must necessarily — though I ha\'<i never heard th(^ oath 
which they tak(^ when they render their accounts and swear to them — 
swear to what is not strictly true. Hence thei'C is an impression ik)W 
that these numerous ]M)sitions of storekee]»crs offered all ox'cr the 
couutry to the youn*;' im-n aiound there whos<; ordinary o<!CU]»ations 
would not yield them over ten or fifteen <lollais a nM)nth outside of the 
revenue dei)artment, holding; (tut lemptations for tlu'm to commit fraud, 
if not ])erjury, in or<l<'r, perhaj)S, to {;et these storekeepers' waj^es. I 
lu'ar nioi'<' complaint r<'c<Mitly from the more intelli<;'ent class of i)eoi)le 
upon that ground than upon any other. They think that is calculatc^d 
to demoralize^ the ])<'oi)le of the (jountiy and destroy that regard for 
truth which ought to (ixist. Whether that is so or not I do not know, 
but the im[)ression exists that it is so. 

Q. Is it not also one of the causes of coni)»laint against this depart- 
ment that the offices connected v.ith it are ])er\'erfed to ])olitical pur- 
]K)s<'s; that young men are coriu])ted ]»olitically, I njean with the tein])ta- 
tion to secure; small ofliccs, to cliange their ])olitics, «S:<'. ? — A. Yes, sir; 
there is an imi)i('ssion that these ])ositions aic offered for that ]»urpose, 
and that they ai'c (»ffered to young men who ai'c tin; i<'])resentativeH 
of extensixc fanulies in the country, with a \'iew to (ronfrol theii' near 
relatives at elections. 'J'hat is one of the giouiulsof ])rejudice against it. 

(^. Is it not also charged and complained of that iru'ii wh<> were in- 
dicted aie freepuMitly eased off from the conse(pien<;es of their indictment 
on (iondition that they change tlu^r politics '^ — A. I havci heard such a 
complaint, but I do iH)t krunv anything of my own knowledge to give it 
color, and I woidd not like to gi\ c it as an oi)iuio!i from any knowledge 
of ndne that such is the case; 1 have heard the; charge. I do not think, 
if allowed to give my oi)inion, that Judge Dick would be a party to any 
such arrangement, if any subordinatemiight be or not. 

i). Are the' I'evenue ofliceMs within your obse-rvation active partisans? — 
A. I think almost all of them are among the most active partisans. 

(^. Are they not tin; orgiinizers of the ])arty and ])riiu-ii»ally run its 
machinery"? — A. It is understood that tlu>y have control of tin; organiza- 
tion of the K<'i>ubli('an i>arty in the district, and, so far as I know, in 
those (iounties wheie I hearel anything of their political numagement, 
almost all of them ; but I su])])ose there aie some few counties in which 
there are ex(;epti(»ns. 

(}. Is it or is it not the impression now that the greater [)art of the 



438 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

frauds committed are committed in collusion with revenue offi(;ersf— 
A. I tbink tlie impression of the county is that. As I said before, I be- 
lieve that blockading was less common, but the general im])res8ion is 
that the distillers who run these small distilleries can only make them 
profitable by collusion with the storekeepers. It is a very common ex- 
pression to hear "that no man can buy corn at a dollar a bushel and 
sell whisky at a dollar and a quarter a gallon, do a legitimate business, 
and make anything at it," and you hear men say that distillers them- 
selves say it, that it is impossible to make a profit and conduct the busi- 
ness fairly. I have never heard them sa" so myself. 

Q. What has been heretofore the character of the revenue men who 
execute the laws in that district, as men of i)eace or otherwise"? — A. I 
could uot give the character of all. Some of them have been peaceful 
men, certainly, and men of good character. 

Q. Of course I meant to ask as to the character of their conduct;^ 
whether violent, tyrannical, o])pressive, or otherwise? — A. Just after 
the war a majority of the officers, collectors and deputy marshals, were 
thought to be imprudent and indiscreet men. At a later ])eriod, within 
the last eight or ten years, we have had some deputy marshals and de])uty 
collectors against whom I have heard no charge. As to the officers im- 
mediately under Dr. Mott, I do not know that I know who are the dif- 
ferent collectors there. I do not know who has been on duty at different 
times. When I was practicing actively there in the courts there was 
a Mr. Gillespie on duty for a while. I think he was legarded as an in- 
discreet and imprudent man, and he got into some difficulties which he 
probably, in a large measure, brought upon himself. I so told Dr. Mott 
in talking to him about it. He tvas afterwards removed from that dis- 
trict. Mr. Gillespie, I think, was removed from there about four years 
ago. It is my impression — he had been on duty for some time prior to 
that as deputy collector — he was removed elsewhere. I do not know 
that. 

Q. I suppose you have a personal knowledge, more or less, of all the 
difficulties that have occurred in that country iDetween the officers and 
the people in your immediate section — Burke and McDowell Counties. 
Have you ever known any instance of shooting at any of the officers 
that did not arise from very considerable i)roYOcation on the part of the 
officers ? — A. I would not like to make a general statement about that. 
I would rather be allowed to cite particular cases that I recollect just 
now. 

Q. Very well. — A. There are two cases in which I appeared for the 
defense; I believe they were deputy marshals; I am not certain whether 
deputy collectors or not. One was the case of A. A. Wiseman, who 
had a party with him, and killed a man. 

Q. He was a marshal "? — A. I am satisfied he was justifiable. Another 
case was that of an officer who killed some of the Snyders. 

Q. They were luarshals, were they not ? — A. I think they were mar- 
shals ; there was a party of ten along; two or three of them were deputy 
marshals; whether deputy collectors were along at the time I do not 
know. I think that was a part of Rollins's district at the time. I 
thought they had a warrant for arrest and he resisted. I thought 
they were justifiable. I was their counsel. 

There was the case of Deaver, who was the deputy collector preced- 
ing (xillespie, who made a violent assault on a man in McDowell. I 
thought he was not justified, and Judge Clark so held. I am not posi- 
tive about the circumstances. As I recall them now, he came u]) with 
a party of soldiers upon a young man out in the country, and without 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 439 

disclosing liis purpose, and really without a warrant for liis arrest, called 
upon hi in to " halt." The man was startled and started to run, and they 
shot him, wounding- him severely. Judge Clark bound him over upon 
a warrant to answer in the State courts. 

Then there was the case ag-iinst Mr. Gillespie ; he was a deputy col- 
lector appointed by Dr. Mott in my county, and assigned to duty there. 
He went down to York's distillery to make some seizure; I am not 
stating this from my personal knowledge ; I was counsel for the Yorks, 
and my knowledge is that Colonel Gaither had four bills of indict- 
ment in the State courts against Mr. Gillespie and those who accom- 
panied him on that occasion. Que, I recollect, was for trespass in seizing 
the wagon of old Mr. York, and taking it, against the protest of his wife, 
to Morganton to haul some still fixtures or brandy that were seized. I 
think one was for assault upon old Mr. York. 

Q. Had they any warrant against hiui ? — A. They had no warrant 
against Mr. York. They had some warrants, as well as I recollect, 
against his two boys, but they arrested old Mr. York and held him in 
custody. He was quite an old man, and was very much frightened, ac- 
cording to accounts given; so much so that when accidentally he got 
loose from them he ran some two miles across the top of the mountains, 
and became sick from the exercise and fright, and died in two mauths 
after. Then they impressed the young man living there, and forced him 
to drive the wagon to Morganton, I forget the other assault. I think 
probably it was a charge of assault upon the wife of old Mr. York. Tbat 
conduct, I thought, was wholly unjustiftable. There was no necessity 
for the violence. 

Q. Was that the occasion when they were fired upon, and Mr. Gilles- 
pie wounded, on their return from the seizure? — A. My impression is — 
it has l)een a good while since — that that was the occasion; that on 
condng out of York's inclosure, when letting down the bars, they were 
fired into, and Mr. Gillespie was wounded, and a horse of young James 
McDowell killed. There was a good deal of feeling against Gillespie 
in that country at that time. 

Q. Do you think any portion of the feeling existing as to the execu- 
tion of the revenue laws arises on account of the partisanship of the 
officers'? — A. It is hard to distinguish, of course. There is some feeling 
against the officers on account of their active i)articipation in politics. 
It naturally excites some feeling on the part of the politicians on the 
other side. 

Q. Do you think that if the revenue was collected quietly, without 
participation on the part of officers in politics, that there would be less 
prejudice f — A. I do. 

Q. And a better feeling in the community generally towards the law 
and its execution, if it was dissociated from i^artisan politics ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; I think so. There is some prejudice on account of the impres- 
sion that it is through the Revenue Department that the machinery of 
the Republican organization is kept up. 

Q. Is there anything yourself that you desire to state in this connec- 
tion?— A. No, sir; I know nothing of my own knowledge about the 
matter. 

Q. What is your opinion about the effect of this multiplication of 
stills — making so many small stills? — A. You ask my opinion about it? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. Before I saw the experiment tried I thought it was 
best, in order to stop violations of the law ; and I believe, in talking with 
Dr. 'Mott about it, I said to him that it was desirable, if men would run 
distdleries, to control and bring them under the law ; that was my im- 



440 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

pressiou at that time; but since it lias been tried, from what I hear, and 
with the generaliDipression of the country about it, I think that the 
running of these small distilleries with licenses — that the general im- 
pression pervading the community that they are all permitted to evade 
the law for Avant of close scrutiny — is more demoralizing than blockading 
was. I did not think it would be so, but the experiment has been triedj 
and that is my impression now. 

Q. Have you any general impression as to the proportion of whisky 
made in these distilleries that pays taxes ? — A. I have no idea. I have 
never been in one of them. Just after the war I was probably in a 
blockade distillery or two ; but I have never been in a government dis- 
tillery of any kind, and I could merely express an opinion on the part 
of others, and I do not know how far that is permissable as testimony. 
I have heard expressions of opinion of the way it has been conducted, 
and it has become a general impression. 

Q. I have heard it suggested in some official reports of agents here 
that about one-half of the whisky made pays taxes ; do you know what 
the impression is in the community in regard to that? — A. I think the 
impression is that there is certainly as much as half, on the average, 
that does not pay taxes ; by one means or another it escapes. 

Q. Of course, assuming there is a corrupt bargain between the store- 
keepers and distillers, they are mutually in each other's power ; and any 
amount of illicit distilling might be assumed if such a bargain was estab- 
lished; that is so, is it not? — A. I suppose so, from what I have heard 
of the management. Such a thing existing as a storekeeper handing 
over the key to a distiller would enable him to have things his own way. 

Q. Assuming that this corrupt bargain did exist between the two, the 
distiller would have his own way, because the storekeeper would be afraid 
to break it up ? — A. Yes, sir 5 you might take it so. 

Q. What was the impression in regard to storekeepers being appointed 
there who are of kin or under the influence of the distillers ? — A. The 
impression is that the person proposing to commence distilling would 
be allowed to select his storekeeper, though I have never been to the 
distilleries or anything of that kind. I understand in the community 
in which I live there have been instances where men were appointed as 
storekeepers to run the distilleries that were kept in the name of their 
own relatives. There has been also an impression that some of them 
owned the distilleries which they ran, and to which they were assigned 
as storekeepers. Whether it is true or not I do not know. For instance,. 
where people put them up on their own land or the land of the store- 
keeper. 

Q. (Jne question I omitted to ask you. Mr. Raum has testified here 
that in many parts of the district it has been dangerous for a well- 
<iressed man to ride through the country without some assurance to the 
public that he was not a revenue officer. — A. I feel confident that 
that was not true — at least in any of the portions of the district I know. 
I know a very considerable portion of it. 1 am confident it is not true,. 
and I know j)ortions in which there has been charged a large number 
of A'iolations of the revenue law. 

Q. What was the worst portion of the country where illicit distilling 
was supposed to be carried on? — A. A large number of persons were 
arrested from the South Mountain Range, the lower part of Burke 
County, and back of the South Mountain Range, in Cleveland and 
Rutherford; the upper corner of Catawba and the upper corner of Lin- 
coln ; and then north of that is the Brush Mountains, in Wilkes. A 
larger proportion of arrests were in those sections than in any other I 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 441 

know of east of the Blue Eidge. Formerly a large number of arrests 
were made in Up])er Transylvania. With the people of those counties I 
had a great deal of intereour.se, because L defended a good many. 

Q. ]>o you know the political complexion of those regions you have 
described? — A. What is known as the South Mountain region, in Burke, 
where these i)eople were charged with illicit distilling, a large majority 
of them have been llei)ublicans. In some few instances of late years 
one of the boxes has given a Democratic majority; but the majority of 
the population were liei)ublican. 

Q. Bo you know Mr. Jake Mull "? — A. Yes, sir ; I submitted a case for 
him under the amnesty that was given by Congress, or granted by order 
of Judge Dick. 

Q. Do you know whether he ever represented Burke County in the 
legislature or was a candidate for the legislature*? — A. No, sir ; Jake 
Mull — 1 think I have oidy seen him once since the war, and it was on 
this occasion when he submitted under the amnesty. When he came in 
to me to submit he looked like a Texas ranger. 

Q. He was pointed out here as leading Democratic candidate for the 
legislature. — A. I think his residence was in the edge of Catawba'. His 
brother, Peter M. IVIull, lives in Catawba. The upper end of his planta- 
tion is in Burke. He was never a representative or candidate. 

Q. I asked you if Mr. Tom Davi.s, a marshal, did not ride through a 
great deal of that country l\y himself, executing warrants. — A. Yes, sir: 
he rode through that mountain country at all times, day and night. 1 
do not know that Davis was ever molested, or that there was any dis- 
position to molest him. 1 have defended as high as forty men arrested 
— brought into one court by Davis. I think universally they had a 
kind feeling towards Davis. He was a very prudent sort of man, and 
after arresting them he would treat them with great kindness and con- 
sideration. If he had contidence in them he would let them off to go 
and hunt their bondsmen, and never used rough or disagreeable lan- 
guage to them. So far as I know, he is popular among those people. 

Q. Do you know whether any of them he let off in that way to hunt 
their bondsmen ever deceived him? — A. I think they generally came up 
in almost all instances where he let them go. 

Q. And you say, then, to your best knowledge and information, that 
it never was at any time unsafe for a well-dressed man to ride any- 
where through that portion of the country? — A. That general i)roposi- 
tion is not true. There are particular officers who had made themselves 
odious in that country who would not be safe. I believe I told Dr. Mott, 
in a conversation with him after this difficulty with Gillespie, that I 
doubted very much whether Gillespie, if kept up there, would be safe 
among those people, and I would be very much gratified if he would re- 
move him. I wanted to save violence. The reason alleged by those 
people for their antipathy to him was that he had talked very impru- 
dently and roughly to them when he took hold of them. For instance, 
I recollect that it was generally circulated among those peo])le, the 
Yorks and others, that Gillespie had said upon the streets of Morgan- 
ton that throughout all that South Mountain country they would swear 
lies, and that all of them would perjure themselves for a very small con- 
sideration. And that, and his conduct in making arrests, had made him 
very odious. So it was with Deaver, one of his predecessors, who made 
himself very odious to the people there. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool: 
Q. Almost every point upon which you have been examined has been 
gone over bj' other witnesses, and your evidence in the main is a re- 



442 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

cai)itulatiou of what has been told; but there is one point that I desire 
to examine you ujion in the start before we go into details. You say 
that there has been a great prejudice against the law itself, as well as 
the executiott of it, and one reason assigned was that the capacity of 
the stills as required by the govern raent was so large that those who 
had made it the business of their lives, many of them, were unable to 
distill under the revenue law? — A. I do not know that I said these two 
things together. I said one reason why the law was odious was that it 
was something new. It broke up the business that men relied upon for 
support; and in another connection I said on one occasion, talking to 
Dr. Mott — I do not know that there was any public sentiment about 
the capacity of the stills — the trouble was of that kind. 

Q. I may have misunderstood you, because it has been said in all of 
the reports against the system that a poor man could not run a still 
because they required such a large one"? — A. I don't know that I said it. 
1 believe I have heard such remarks made, perhaps. 

Q. You said that you thought that illicit distilling would be decreased 
by allowing stills of less capacity than the regular stills, and before it 
was done you so advised it 1 — A. I said that I had said to Dr. Mott in 
conversation that I thought it probably would be best to try to induce 
these small distillers to go into distilling, and that was my impression 
that it was better for the country until I saw it tried. 

Q. That would require a reduction of the capacity f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I understood you to intimate that the small distiller, at the reduced 
capacity of four bushels, could not make monej- except in some corrupt 
collusion? — A. That is my imj^ression. 

Q. Please explain, if you can, why the small distiller could not make 
money as well as the large one. — A. The calculation is not one that I 
have ever entered into. I stated what the public opinion w^as, and you 
hear the remark and expression of opinion there "that a man cannot 
make money at a small distillery when corn is a dollar a bushel and 
whisky is selling at $1.25 and $1.30 and do a legitimate business." 

Q. Do you know any reason why he could not do as well in a small 
distillery as in a large one? — A. I could not make the figures. I only 
state that the impression exists. I suppose that one reason why the 
chances are better at a large distillery is that whatever expenditure 
there is for fixtures, &c., as an outlay, is distributed amona: a greater 
number of gallons of whisky. That would seem to be apparent. 

Q. But the outlay to such a small distillery is very small, and would 
not exceed $100 or $200 ?— A. I do not know what it is. 

Q. Did you ev^er hear any of the men who expressed that opinion 
giving any reason why a man could not make money when whisky was 
selling at $1.35 a gallon and corn at $1 a bushel? — A. I never heard 
any distillers giving reasons. 

Q. You have never heard any reason given for that opinion at all ? — 
A. I do not know that I ever saw the figures made up by any one. Per- 
haps I have seen the figures made in some of the newspapers, but not 
in these conversations that we have had. 

Q. Do you recollect ever seeing any figures made in distinction be- 
tween a small distillery and a large one in regard to the relative 
profits ? — A. I have only heard discussions as to the chances of those 
small distilleries. 

Q. Then I understand the charge to have been, those running small 
distilleries, to make money, must necessarily have some corrupt arrange- 
ment with the storekeeper; that is the idea? — A. Yes, sir; and in ad- 
'dition to that I have heard rumors that there were such arrangements. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 443 

For instance, the one I recollect is that a man told nie he was ai)pointed 
storekeeper, and while he had the ai)pointnient several different persons 
proposed to him to embark in distilling with them. 

Q. Was that Mr. Bruner ?— A. A man in Burke County, by the 
name of N. L. Chapman. As well as I recollect now, he said they offered 
hiin — that was when tliey were paying $4 a day to storekeepers — from 
seventy-five cents to |2' a day out of his pay ; but he declined to make 
any such agreement, and therefore was never assigned. Xo distiller 
would choose him. The distillers generally had storekeepers assigned 
that they wanted. 

Q. I was not asking you for })articular instances yet awhile. And 
you said the impression among the better class of the community and 
individuals with whom you talked — men of standing — was that these 
small distilleries coukl not be run to make a profit unless there was a 
corrupt collusion between the distillers and storekeepers, and that you 
knew nothing about it yourself, but that was the general impression. 
You never heard it suggested why it could not have been done at a 
snuill distillery as well as a large one, and that you knew nothing about 
i t. I want to ask you if that would not require them to swear falsely 1 — 
A. 1 do not know the oath they take. The impression is that it re- 
<]uires some equivocation on the part of the storekeeper and distiller, 
and those people think it is calculated to demoralize the country when 
an impression exists that this is necessary to be done. 

Q. The law requires that a storekeeper shall take an oath. Of course, 
storekeepers, in getting into any such collusion as that and violating 
the law, it would involve the necessity of swearing falsely, both on the 
])art of the storekeeper and distiller. Is it possible that the community 
has that idea that the majority of the distillers and storekeepers will 
s\v(^ar falsely? — A. I do not know that they have that idea — that is, 
without exception ; but so far as I have talked I have got the general 
impression of intelligent men, and they think that with the majority of 
stills there is such a collusion. 

Q. That the majority of the distillers in that district, and the majority 
of the storekeepers, of course, swear falsely; and they have to do it 
every month in their monthly returns? — A. I do not know how that is. 

Q. Do you know a great many of these distillers?— A. I cannot say a 
great many. 

Q. Do you think you know half of them? — A. Oh, no, sir. 

(}. Are they generally a class of men who would swear falsely? — A. I 
coukl not say that I know the general character of distillers. I have 
known some whom 1 unhesitatingly say would not bear such a charac- 
ter; but others I do not know. And perhaps others, from what I have 
heard, I might possibly say that their characters were not of the best; 
but as a class I do not know their characters, except as derived from 
these general impressions. 

Q. You know a good many of the storekeepers, do j^on not? — A. Not 
a great many. 

Q. You know a good many of them ; are they men whose character 
would justify you in believing that they would swear falsely? — A. Some 
of them are not. Some of them I know. You do not want my opinion; 
you want the opinion of the community, so far as I know? 

Q. I want to correct the opinion of the community ? — A. Some of them 
I do not think capable of doing such a thing. Others, the community 
think they would. 

Q. Of course there may be some exceptions. You state that the im- 
pression was general that. that was so in the majority of instances? — 



444 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

A. That there was divisiou of pay between storekeepers and distillers, 
whatever may be the consequences of that; and the impression was that 
it involved some sort of fraud upon the government. 

Q. Do you think, from your knowledge of the character of the store- 
keepers and distillers, that that impression can be well-founded ? — A. 
It I rely upon the information that I have had, I would think it must 
be true in a great many cases. 

Q. You could not state it was true in the majority of cases ! I mean 
that you think it was f — A. My imj^ression is only derived from this 
general talking about. 

Q. I am trying to correct the general impression from your own indi- 
vidual knowledge of the character of the men ? — A. Whe'n I come down 
to individuals, such as I know, I can form a decided impression in ev^ery 
instance. As I say to you there are a number of cases from what I 
have heard, that 1 believe it must be so. 

Dr. IVToTT. Judge, we want your opinion. 

The AViTNESS. The difficulty is that I have no idea who are store- 
keepers outside of my own county. When j'^ou come to name individuals, 
I do not know, perhaps, half who hold commissions in mj^ own county. 

Dr. MoTT. We want to judge them by the character of the men in 
your county and form an estimate. 

The Witness. I do not know all in my own county. Some of those 
in my own county there I would rely upon, and others I would not de- 
pend on individually. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Is it your opinion that that general rumor in the community, in 
your individual opinion, is true ? — A. I am obliged to conclude, from all 
the sources of information that 1 can get, that it is true in a very large 
number of instances. If you just ask for my opinion, I tell you. I 
have no positive information. Such an opinion is derived from the talk 
of the community. 

Q. Bearing upon that, can you instance any cases where there has 
been division between storekeepers and distillers ? — A. I have stated 
at the start that I do not of my own personal knowledge state any- 
thing. 

Q. Did you, however, hear these accusations brought against any par- 
ticular person byname?— A. lam satisfied I have. It will take me 
some time to recall the particular instance in which I have heard men 
say there has been division. 

Q. We would like to have some names'? — A. I recall what a man by 
the name of Chapman told me. 

Q. We want to see if you can go outside of Bruner and Chapman ? 

The Clerk. The Chapman the judge alludes to is a different man 
from the revenue agent. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Outside of Bruner and Chapman do you know any instance of an 
individual by name — storekeeper or distiller — who was charged with 
this division of the pay of the storekeeper? — A. This matter is gen- 
erally a transaction between the storekeeper and distiller, and neither 
one of them can be compelled to criminate himself. The impression 
is in the country" that there is an understanding between them pre- 
liminary to starting most of these distilleries. I do not recollect par- 
ticular instances in which I have heard that. I think I have heard 
some others besides what Mr, Chapman told me in which distilleries 
were put in actual operation. 



THE SIXTH DLSTUICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 445 

Q. Mr. C'liapnian was a store keeper, was he iiot'^ — A. 1 do not think 
he ever ^ot aii assignment, and he told nie he coukl not get an au- 
si^nment because he woukl not agree to divide liis i)ay. 

Q. Ue was a storekeeper? — A. lie was commissioned a storekeeper 
and tiled his bond, 

Q. Did 1h; file his bond ? — A. 1 think he so stated. It is my impres- 
sion he stated it to me that he could not get an assigniuent because he 
would not divide pay. It may be that I infernul from that that he had 
tiled his bond. 

Q. You did not have any other reason for knowiugthat except that 
Chai)nKin said tiiat he tiled his bond "i — A. I cannot state that for cer- 
tain. 

(). Then there is no individual instance that you can now give us, so 
that we couhl bring the men here and ask them — oidy general rumor? — 
A. I state this from what I have heard from others. I think you will 
find a good many instances, if your investigation continues, in which 
you will be asked to bring storekeepers before you on account of that 
impression, 

Q. We have been searching witnesses for three weeks to get tlie 
names of somebody. — A. I think you will find there is a large number 
of them who are thought by the community to be dividing their j)ay ; 
and if you want plenty of names they will be suggested to you from 
what I have hear<l. 

Q. That may in the future ; we have been diligently searching for 
the past three weeks. — A. That is what I judge from tin- talk I hear. 

Q. I understand you are basing your imi)ression u])on the rumors 
that are floating around ; is it not a fact that the politicjs of that country 
has been running on the Democratic side in a line of denunciation of 
these officers and the laws, by stump speakers as well as the public 
press"? — A. Oh, there has been a good deal of denunciation by the 
Democratic stump speakers. 

Q. Has that not been a source of the many prejudicial rumors that 
are circulated against them ? — A. 1 do not know what you mean. I 
have heard them talk frecjuently about the office. 

Q. 1 mean denounced u])on the stump ? — A. And the manner of ex- 
ecuting the law denounced. 

Q, I mean, in general terms. You said there was a rumor about Mor- 
ganton about one or two storekeei)ers who were relatives of the men 
who really owned the stills; they ran in somebody else's name. What 
are the names of those storekeepers ? I s (ludger one of tluiin ? — A, Gudger 
is a nephew, by marriage, of Mr, (Jarrison. 

Q. What was the other's name? — A, Kobert Powell had a distillery. 
I think it is nominally own(Ml by his brother-in-law, Jones Martin, and 
the actual distiller is his brother, Tom Powell; but the general impres- 
sion in the community is that Kobert Powell is the owner of the estab- 
lishment. 

Q. We have had it all out by other witnesses; I just w^antto identify 
it. — A, Do you ask me of the instances I know anything about ? 

P. Yes, around Morganton, of the instances wliere you understood 
that some relatives of the officers were the real owners of the distiller- 
ies? — A. There was some talk about the distillery that E. L. Walton 
is said to have had built on his own land there in the immediate vicinity 
of the town. 

Q. You understand my purpose. I see that you are talking about 
some things wehavebeen over with other witnesses, audit was inferred 
from that that there was a collusion between the storekeeper and 



446 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REYENUE IN 

distiller *? — A. In Mr. Powell's case the impression is that he owned the 
distillery which lie Avas running. 

Q„ Be owned it himself and ran it fraudulently? — A. Yes, sir; that 
is the impression of the community ; I do not know how just it is. 

Q. Is Mr. Powell a man whose character will allow him to be amena- 
ble to the idea that he would swear falsely month after month ? — A. I 
cannot say that it is not or that it is. Mr. Powell went away from our 
community, as I understood, soon after the war and left his wife therein 
our county. He was gone a good many years, until he had almost 
passed out of view. He was said to be out in Tennessee. He came 
back and settled down with his family at Morganton perhaps four or 
ilve years ago. During that time I have been away most of the time. 
I cannot say that his character is such as would protect him against 
such an assertion ; nor will I say that his character is universally bad. 

Q. Is Mr. Gudger a man whose character would render him liable to 
such a charge as that"? — A. Mr. Gudger is a young man; he came over 
from Buncombe a few years ago and settled out in the country. I can 
not give his general reputation. 

Q." You know him personally f — A. I know him personally. 

Q, Can you judge whether he is a man that would swear falsely "? — A. 
I could not give his character; I do not know what is his general repu- 
tation. 

Q. In regard to Mr. Walton, is he a man whose character would make 
him amenable to false swearing? — A. No, sir; I say Mr. Walton is a 
man of good character. 

Q. I am only endeavoring to show that these rumors might be very 
unjust to men of good character when simply based upon suspicion. 

The Chairman. May be they were not sworn at all, but taken in Mr. 
Clarke's way as a mere matter of form. 

Mr. Pool. A great many might be, but we are only speaking of what 
appears on investigation here. 

The Witness. As to Mr. Powell there is another matter of complaiat, 
and that is that he is incompetent ; that he could not keep his accounts 
as a storekeeper, and has to get somebody else to make them up for 
him. 

Q. Did you ever see any of Mr. Powell's writing? — A. I never did. I 
will tell you one reason why I say what I did. I heard Mr. Bristol say 
casually — that is, I heard the remark made generally — I heard Mr. Bris- 
tol say that he had made out all these accounts ; that Mr. Powell could 
not make them out, and could only keep memoranda. 

Q. Is Mr. Bristol a man of good character? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He had been a storekeeper? — A. He is not now. 

Q. He had been ? — A. I think he has been, but he is not a storekeeper 
now. 

Q. You do not think that he is a man that would swear falsely? — A. 
He was a storekeeper several years ago, at the time when I did not hear 
anything about these rumors, at least as I hear them now. 

Q. Would he engage in makin'g out false accounts ? I meant to ask 
you that instead of asking whether he would swear falsely. — A. I sup- 
pose he made out Powell's statements just as Powell gave him the data 
to make them out, from what he said. 

Q. What became of the indictments against Mr. Gillespie? — A. The 
indictments were removed from the State to the Federal courts in the 
spring of 18S0. I went upon the bench that fall; but I understood at 
the fall term there was a compromise made. Two of the York boys had 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 447 

been indicted for illicit distilling'; and tlie Yorks did not insist npon 
their ])rosecntion, and tbe government did not insist npon theirs. 

Q. Mr. Gilles])ie was indicted for assahlt and trespass ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And they were indicted for violation of the revenue laws? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q, And all went off together? — A. I snppose their indictment was 
for distilling whisky. The indictment Gillespie had brought against 
York for his transa(;tions in brandy 1 did not think was a just one — 
at best it was a technical violation of the law. The Yorks were igno- 
rant people. As well as I recollect, there was some paper they had to 
sioii — the technical name 1 do not recollect — in order to start to distill 
brandy. It was agreed that the brandy should be stored in his house. 
Instead of storing it in his house — he did not know what he had signed — 
he had a shed built in a fence corner in whi(;h he put the brandy, and 
he was indicted for not putting the brandy where he had agreed to 
store it — in his own house. 

Q. You said there was some prejudice against the revenue ofticers 
because of their earnestness in party matters. Of course you mean to 
confine the prejudice from that source to the Democratic party? — A. I 
stated there was some prejudice on that account, more than would have 
been otherwise. 

Q. That prejudice would not be among Eepublicans? — A. Xot as a 
general rule. I suppose there may have been some civil-reform men 
among them in North Carolina. 

Q. The substance of all this about collusion between storekeepers 
and distillers is that it is corruptijig the communities? — A. Yes, sir. I 
might have stated as a reason for that opinion another ojunion that 
exists, and that is that in some sections the storekeepers are in the 
habit of turning over their keys to distillers. 

Q. In the habit of doing so? — A. Yes, sir. I heard just a rumor of 
this sort when down in Gaston last fall. It was talked a good deal 
around as a rumor that a goodly number of the storekeepers' keys in 
Gaston County had been sent down by the distillers to a locksmith by 
the name of Kuester, in Charlotte, and he had made duplicates, which 
implied that the storekeepers had handed over the keys to the distillers. 

Q. How long ago was that? — A. When holding court in Gaston 
County last fall 1 heard it talked about. 

Q. Was that ever reported to the collector's office? — A. I do not 
know. It was not my business to report it. I just heard that conver- 
sation among the gentlemen about the hotel. 

Q. You just heard that as a runu)r ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was no particular distiller's name mentioned ? — A. If there 
was I would not have known him. It was in a part of country I was 
not well acquainted with. 

Q. Do you know whether the matter was ever investigated ? — A. No, 
sir. I know nothing except that the matter was mentioned several 
times about the hotel. 

Q. Did you hear the name of the locksmith ? — A. Mr. Kuester. He 
is a locksmith in Charlotte who had a great deal of ingenuity, as those 
know who have had him to supply trunk keys. 

Q. That would be a very grave charge, and if generally circulated it 
would be thought that there would be some proceedings by the United 
States commissioner about it? — A. I cannot say that a ma;iority of the 
people of Gaston County said it. My intercourse was with a very 
limited number while I held court. I merely mentioned that to show 



448 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

what the different circumstances were that had made this impression 
upon me, because you asked me for my individual impressions. 

Q. Do you recollect any name of any gentleman of character who 
made that charge about Mr, Kuester's having had the keys sent to 
him? — A. Yes, sir. I recollect one man of decided character who men- 
tioned it. 

Q. Did he mention it of his own knowledge, or of having heard it 
himself? — A. He just stated it; whether he said he was informed of it 
or whether he said it was positively so, as a gentleman ordinarily men- 
tions a matter that is true; at this length of time I cannot say whether 
he had any qualification — as I am reliably informed or I know the gen- 
tleman's statement was that. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. I think you told me, judge, that Kuester, the locksmith, had told 
you so himself? — A. It may have been that way. I think probably I 
had forgotten a conversation just after Gaston court, in which I men- 
tioned it to Governor Yance, and I may have said that Kuester told 
me — the precise language I cannot recollect. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Who was the gentleman who informed you? — A. The Hon. David 
Jenkins, of Gaston. 

Q. Could you name another gentleman that you now recall? — A. I 
heard the matter talked of among other gentlemen, but cannot posi- 
tively recollect the name of another. I would not state positively an- 
other name. 

Q. Do you recollect that David A. Jenkins was an applicant for Dr. 
Mott's place at the time? — A. I do not know whether he had made any 
application then ; subsequently, I think, he was. 

Q. Was he being urged actively by his political friends for the 
place? — A. I so understood after that time ; yes, sir. 

Q. A charge of that sort, if substantiated at all, would be very apt to 
cause the removal of the collector? — A. I should think it would; it 
would show a great want of diligence on his part. 

Q. Another matter which you were called upon to testify about, and 
which had been gone over with before, was in regard to Mr. Davis go- 
ing through and executing warrants in the worse parts even of the dis- 
trict without being interfered with. What Mr. Davis was that ? — A. T. 
K. Davis. 

Q. Who was a witness here ? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

The Witness. I think I heard he was examined here. 

By Mr. Pool: 

Q. Mr. Davis stated all about that himself here. He said he had to 
treat these people very carefully, and act with moderation. — A. Talking 
from the standpoint of my clients I found generally his good conduct had 
made him most popular with them, and judging from their sentiment 
with regard to him I felt he was perfectly safe. 

Q. And that is what he stated himself, and seemed to intimate, that 
his safety required him to act that way ? You say among other things 
that he used to let the men off" after an arrest, so that they could hunt 
up bondsmen? — A. I would say there were several instances. Ido not 
think that was a habit with him. 

Q. Was it in accordance with an officer's duty to do that ? — A. 1:^0, 
sir; he did it at his own peril. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 449 

Q. Of course he Avas responsible. He did it at bis own peril, but I 
am askiu<2" you about the public. Was it proper for an officer to do 
sucli a thing-, even at his i)eril ? — A. It is not strictly so, but a great 
many officers do it all over the country. 

The Chairman. Such as sheriffs f — A. Yes, sir ; if an officer, I would 
be inclined in many instances to do it. They catch men at times where 
it is impossible for them to have an opportunity to give bail, and es- 
pecially in some instances where they require a bail above the home- 
stead — too large an amount for them to attach for violating the law. 
It would be very mortifying, perhaps, to put a man of that kind in jail, 
and where they might be men wlio would tell the truth and you could 
rely upon them if they promised. I think that an officer — while strictly 
liable for doing so — would attempt to do so in a great many cases where 
he knew the men. 

Q. Do you think that that speaks very well of the state of public 
sentiment where an officer has to resort to such a thing in order to se- 
cure his personal safety ? — A. I do not think it necessary for him to re- 
sort to that. 

Q. Mr. Davis thought a general leniency of conduct was necessary 
in order to secure his safety? — A. I do not knoAV what Mr. Davis's 
opinion was, but my opinion is he was secure because he \vas not vio- 
lent, imprudent, indiscreet, and doing things gratuitously to make these 
people mad in the conduct of his business. 

Q. Has there been a great deal of improvement in this district within 
the last three or four years? — A. In what respect? 

Q. In the respect of public feeling- and the way in which the revenue 
law is regarded and its execution. — A. You ask for my opinion ? I do 
not think so; that question I answered in giving my opinion before. I 
think, from all the information I can get, there is a mistake in the 
methods. While blockade distilling, as it is called, has been dimin- 
ished, I think the i)resent system is having a more demoralizing- effect 
ui)on the country — the execution of the law as it is executed now — than 
it did when Dr. Mott first took charge of its operations in tlie district. 

Q. There has been a very large increase in the collections, as shown 
by the reports, and while the increa.se in the expenses is great too, still 
the net amount to the government is much in excess of what it was be- 
fore this system was acloi)ted. — A. That I understood to be so, but I do 
not think that anything can compensate for the lowering- of the moral 
tone of a community ; that is the idea, whether true or not. The idea 
that these frauds are resorted to, and the very impression in the com- 
munity that this is a way to iirofit and advantage on the part of young- 
men starting out in the countrj-, has a demoralizing effect, which I 
think is perceptible in the country. 

Q. From the character of the officers, and from the character of the 
distillers all through that district, do you think this impression is a cor- 
rect and fair one; in other words, do you think they are such men as 
would engage in any such thing as these rumors point out? — A. Some 
of them are not, biit a number of them — I think the general im- 
pression is that a large number — would and do engage in it, and I can- 
not help from saying that that is my general impression, from the in- 
formation that I have had. 

Q. I was endeavoring- to get your own opinion ? — A . As I stated, I 
know some of them that I do not think would, from what 1 know of their 
character. 

Q. There are some four hundred distillers, and there must be some 
four hundred officers in the district, which is eight hundred men. — A. 
S. Mis. 116 29 



450 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

But a comparatively small number of them I know personally, and my 
impression of them is formed from talking' with people in the various 
counties and hearing what they say about the manner in which it is con- 
ducted. 

Q. You do know a goodly number '? iTow, of those you do know, sup- 
posing them to be of an average character, with them would you say 
individually that they would engage wholesale in that sort of work "? — 
A. I would not say that a majority of them are such as to give a lie to 
such an impression. I would not say that a majority of those I know 
are such as to contradict such a view on the subject. 

Q. Is there any remedy that you could suggest — auy way to execute 
the law that would make it different f — A. I do not know whether it is 
within the lines marked out for the committee, but I will state that my 
idea is that the whole system ought to be abolished. If you desire to 
get my impressiou, my^impression lis that the whole internal-revenue 
system — the system of direct taxatiou — ought to be abolished, for the 
reason chiefly that, from my observation, I think it is impossible for a 
government to dispense so large a patronage withont corrui^tiug in- 
tluences — the patronage itself incident to the execution of that law — 
Avithout the corrupting and demoralizing influences resnlting from it. 

Q. Is that the feeling in the Democratic party of the district, that 
the whole system should be abolished f — A. I think so, universally ; and 
I believe that the other party have incorporated a plank in their plat- 
form in its favor. Both parties in the State have expressed themselves 
in their platforms in favor of abolishing the internal-revenue laws. Mr. 
Dockrey's letter of acceptance to the Bepublican nomination says he is 
in favor of it, and will vote in Congress to abolish it. 

Q. I understand you to say that if the internal-revenue law is not to 
Ibe abolished that you do not know, and have not heard suggested by 
these people who complain of the present system, any better one to put 
in its place ? — A. If it be true what people generally' think is true, that 
the present system can be improved by a rigid inspection of Avhat is 
o'oing on — b}' examining constantly into the conduct of the government 
distilleries — I think that can be improved if that is true. 

Q. Has there not been a rigid inspection down there — four, five, or six 
agents from the department almost continually in the district ? — A. I 
have not heard that. Four or five years ago I recollect of an agent 
named Wagner and one named Chapman being there, but have heard 
of no agent that I recollect since." 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You say that the people argue in this way: That a man could not 
do a legitimate business and make any money with a small distillery, 
when corn was a dollar a bushel and the price ot whisky $1.25 and $1.30 
a gallon ? — A. Yes sir. 

Q. Mr. Pool asked you if you could give any reason why there was 
not as much money made by a small distiller as a big one, and you said 
you had never gone into the figures. — A. I do not know, indeed, why the 
same may not apply to the large distilleries. I merely heard that re- 
mark made in reference to the small distilleries in operation in our 
country. 

Q. Now, let us make a few figures. Suppose we take a four-bushel 
capacity distillery which makes two gallons to the bushel, which is the 
minimum allowed b^' law, and calculate it this way : Foiu- bushels of 
corn, at $L a bushel, $1: tax on eight gallons of whisky, at 90 cents 
a gallon, $7.20, making' $11.20; product, eight gallons of whisky, $1.25 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 451 

a gallon, $10; that makes a clear loss of .*^1.20 ? — A. Yes, sir; that 
seems to be a correct calculation. 

Q. Suppose you put four bushels of corn as makinj;- a ])roduct of 
ten gallons of whisky, at two and one-half gallons to tlie bushel, that 
would be four bushels of corn, $4; tax on ten gallons, $9, which 
makes $iy>; ten gallons of whisky, at $1.25 a gallon, $12.50; which 
makes a clear loss on the i)roduct of 50 cents? — A. It seems so. 

(^. Su[)pose you put corn at 75 cents a bushel, that would be four 
bushels of corn, $3; tax on eight gallons whisky, $7.20, which makes 
$10.20; and sold at $1.25 a gallon, would make $10; so that there 
M'ould be a clear loss of- 20 cents? — A. I believe the calculation is (cor- 
rect. 

Q. And then, if you give the outside limit and say the jiroduct is ten 
gallons, there would be only a gain of 50 cents; is that the way you 
make it ? — A. You do not make any allowance in there for the wages 
of the distillers and the wear and tear of machinery. 

Q. And the firewood, sending to mill, loss and wear and tear of the 
fixtures, so that wlien corn is seventy-live cents or a dollar a bushel, 
there is obliged to be a loss, or at least an inconsiderable profit, unless 
there is something collusive going on '! — A. It would seem so from that 
calculation. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Sui)pose he were to get one-half of the storekeepers' pay, say, 
thirty dollars or fifty dollars a month from the storekeepers' pay, then 
the distillers wouhl only make $1 or $1.50 more a day ? — A. You desire 
me to state. It is ]>erhaps due .that I should state how these things 
occur. I said I had not made these figures as to the division of store- 
keepers paying $1.50 a day ; that would seem to cover this loss in one 
case and fifty cents in the other, and more than cover the loss of the 
twenty cents in the last calculation. The impression of the way in which 
this is operated is, that they divided the pay, getting one-half or two- 
thirds of it, and then in a great nuird)er of instances they have the key, 
and after running oft" two gallons into the government cistern, they can 
run off for the distiller's use a quantity of ''pot-tail" — a gallon and a 
half more into some other barrel — the character of whisky they get by 
iiinning close; and if they can dispose of that in some way without 
paying taxes upon it, they can make a profit. 

Q. Do you think that would be a safe thing for a man to undertake 
with agents traveling around through the district inspecting, and liable 
to come upon him at any moment? — A. I don't know how safe it would 
be ; I don't know many agents are riding around. 

Q. It has been in evidence that there were seven or eight of them iu 
the district last year. Did not these distillers have a large amount of 
stock, hogs, &c. f — A. I think I heard some of them- kept a good many 
hogs. 

Q. Was there any distilleries where they did not keep hogs? — A. I 
do not know, sir. 

Q. Is not the main profit in a distillery in the stock raised at it ? — A. 
I do not know anything about that ; my imjjression is some profit is 
derived iu that way. My father had a distillery running on his place a 
few months in the year when I was a bo}', and 1 think his idea was that 
a part of his compensation was from fattening his hogs. 

Q. In point of fact, is it not the general impression among distillers 
that their jirofit lies in the number that they are enabled to keep ? — A. 
I do not know what their calculation was. 



452 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Q. Do you mean that the general price of corn in that country is a 
dollar a bushel ? — A. It is where I live this year; it is not every year. 

Q. I mean taking- one year with another? — A. 'No, sir ; taking one 
year with another it ranges from fifty cents to a dollar. 

Q. Would the average price generally vixceed sixty cents'? — A. I do 
not know that I could say that without making a calculation; it ranges 
from fifty cents to a dollar. 

Q. If when a distiller has a lot of stock on hand dependent on his 
distillery, and the price of corn goes up, could he well, without loss, 
break up and quit ; would not his stock almost compel him to keep 
up? — A. I do not know ; that would be a matter of calculation whether 
the benefit to his stock would compensate for the loss on his whisky. 

Q. You have never heard of them bringing stock iuto the estimate 
raised by these distillers? — A. I have never made any figures myself. 
Governor Vance has made these figures. 

Q. And left the stock out, I observe ; was not hog raising an excel- 
lent business in your section of the country ? — A. Not generally. 

Q. Was there not money in raising hogs there ? — A. I only state my 
individual experience. I have not considered it profitable the last few 
years, and have stopped, and buy my bacon. Most farmers raise their | 
own pork, and a great many raise to sell. 

Q. Is it not a part of the profits of the farmers all through that sec- 
tion of the country? — A. Some of it is, but a good many do not think 
it profitable, and prefer to sell their grain rather than to put it in hogs. 

Q. Was it not important for the farmer to have hogs about bis 
pUiee? — A. Nearly all do raise their own pork at least, but all do not 
raise pork for market; a good many do. 

Dr. MoTT. Would it not be a heap better to have stills so as to feed 
slop instead of solid corn to the stock ? — A. I suppose if they had a 
still it would be a mistake to feed corn to hogs or stock, and that the 
distilleries under the circumstances could better afford to raise stock 
than the farmer. I only state my experience when a farmer as to the 
profit derived from it. 

M. L. McCoRKLE sworn and examined for the government. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you live? — Answer. Catawba County, North 
Carolina. 

Q. What is your profession? — A. A lawyer. 

Q. Have you a pretty fair knowledge, from being situated about the 
center of the district, of the operations of the internal-revenue laws in 
that country? — A., My knowledge is not so extensive probably as some, 
as my practice in the iPederal courts has not been very large, especially 
in revenue cases. My knowledge is mostly confined to what I know in 
my own county. I have some knowledge, of course, of the district and 
^counties around, but not as extensively as others. 

Q. Describe, if you please, the operation of the internal-revenue laws, 
and the manner of executing them in your county, and what the com- 
plaint and feeling of the people are about it. — A. The principal com- 
plaint in my county is that a considerable amount of revenue is col- 
lected ; but the expenses are so large in the collection of it that some 
other system probably would be better if it were adopted. There are 
other complaints that I have heard; that it is thought that there is 
some collusion with some of the officers at least; that the distillers have 
received a part of the wages of the storekeepers. And it is done in 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 453 

this way, as I have heard — at least I have heard it alleged — that a man 
before he is assigned to a distillery makes an agreement with the in- 
dividnal to whom he is to be assigned tbat he is to pay him so much 
board; that he is not to receive a part of his wages, bnt has to pay him 
so much board, and in that way compensate the distiller for any loss he 
would sustain in carrying on his distiller3\ 

Q. How large a price have you heard paid?— A. E think I have heard 
$1.50. 

Q. A day? — A. It is something like that. 

(2. $4:5 a month? — A. It is mostly rumor — nothing I know of my 
own observation in any particular whatever. 

Q. You are testifying as to the ordinary state of public sentiment. 
What is the ordinary price of board there — country board ? — A. You 
can get very good board for $8 or $10 a month. 

Q. That would be four times at least the price that you have heard 
that the storekeepers pay? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do yon know what liquor sells at in that county'? — A. At retail? 

Q. Yes. — A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. Do yon know what it sells for at wholesale? — A. I understood 
about a $1,40 a gallon. I think it was; I am not certain as to that. 

Q. What is the price of corn this year? — A. To distillers it is about 
a $1 a bushel. I think they generally pay a little more than others; 
many merchants will sell corn a little less to other persons than to dis- 
tillers. 

Q. Did the revenue officers in your county take an active part in 
politics? — A. Yes, sir; I think they are considered the leading politi- 
cians in the county. 

Q. Is there not a prejudice against the law or the manner of execut- 
ing the law? — A. I think there is no prejudice against the law. I think 
that everybody is satisfied that there is a tax of 00 cents a gallon on 
whisky; and thongh they would be glad if that 90 cents was applied 
to some other purpose, to education or something of that kind, they 
have no objection to the tax, but they think that the law could be exe- 
cuted so as not to incur such a large expense; if some other law could 
be adopted they would be better satisfied with it. I think, so far as 
brandy is concerned, the people would be glad if the tax was lower, not 
over 25 cents a gallon; or entirely free; but so far as whisky is con- 
cerned I think that they are perfectly satisfied that it should be taxed. 

Q. It is the great expense attending the collection that they princi- 
pally object to? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. 

Q. Has there been any violent resistance to the law in your county 
that you know of, or have heard of ?— A. None that I know of. 

Q. Has there been any time when a revenue officer was in danger in 
doing his duty there?— A. I think not at any time in my recollection 
since the war. So far as the revenne officers are concerned in my 
county, I mean the marshals, &c., I believe they have behaved them- 
selves very well, with probably one or two exceptions. 

Q. Do you know anything of this case spoken of here the other day 
about Mrl! Cline, where the revenue officer shot a mnn? — A. Yes, sir; I 
know all about it. Mr. Cline himself was a client of mine and made 
application to me to have Mr. Gillespie prosecuted. The way in which 
it happened was; there was some mistake of the storekeeper, not re- 
[»orting correctly the time when he ceased. The time when he was un- 
der suspension, and he was charged probably a day or two more than 
was actually due. There was some mistake or other. I do not know 
who made the mistake, but know he was charged for being in arrears; 



454 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

and an execucion was sent out against him; and Gillespie was one of 
the deputies that weut to Mr. Cliue's and he told him about it ; and . 
Oline protested that they had paid everything. Gillespie showed his 
execution. He said there must be a mistake, and it must be corrected ; 
and, as he said, Gillespie then started up to the stable for the purpose 
of levj'ing on some property, a horse, or something of the kind. A 
rather simple fellow came out from the stable to split some wood. Gil- 
lespie halted him, but the fellow did not pay much attention to him, and 
Gillespie shot him in the arm or leg" — at any rate, wounded him. Gilles- 
pie was indicted for it in our courts, and he also indicted Oline for re- 
sisting the officer. I think Gillespie submitted, under an agreement, that 
judgment was to be suspended and the prosecution stopped at States- 
Aille, and all was amicably settled. 

Q. Walker said that Cline told this half-witted. fellow to attack Gil- 
lespie"? — A. I think Walker is mistaken. Cline was a man of good 
character. I have no idea he would do that; at least he told me he did 
not. 

Q. There are not many distilleries in your county '? — A. Not many. 

Q. You say you saw no danger at any time to a revenue officer in 
your county ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Of course a wellrdressed stranger could ride through without any 
danger whatever "? — A. Oh, yes. 

Q. Has there been anything of this described by other witnesses of 
buying up our young men by offices, trying to induce them to chang'e 
their politics, in your county f — A. I do not know whether there was any- 
thing of the kind or not. I know of some young men who were Demo- 
crats when they went into the revenue service, who seemed to change. 
I do not know what influence Avas brought to bear upon them or any- 
thing of that kind. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. You live in Catawba County '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is situated on the railroad! — A. Yes, sir; Western North 
Carolina Eailroad. 

Q. You have never had much illicit distilling in that county? — A. 
Yery little. There was, about 1878, some indictments, but the amnesty 
was granted, and I think there has been no illicit distilling- in the 
county since — very little, if any. 

Q. Your county is in the mountain region of country? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you not hear of some resistance to the law in the upper sec- 
tion of your county ? — A. I cannot call any to mind just now. 

Q. Along on the edge of the South Mountains? — A. That is not in 
Catawba. I have heard of some in the South Mountains, but know so 
little about it that my testimony is not worth much. I think there was 
none in Catawba that I know of. 

Q. How many distilleries have you in your county °? — A. Some six or 
eight. 

Q. Do you know the men who own and run them? — A. I know some 
of them. 

Q. Are they men of good character? — A. Generally men of good 
character. 

Q. Are they men who would swear falsely ? — A. I do not think they 
would, intentionally ; 1 cannot think so. 

Q. Do you know the storekeepers who are assigned to these iive or 
six distilleries ? — A. I know most of them. 

Q. Are they good men? — A. I think so. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 455 

Q. Men who would swear f;il«ely :'— A. I do not tliiid< tliey woidd, in- 
tentionally. 

Q. You say von have heard it charged aronnd there that they paid a 
large ainonnt for board— forty-five dollars I— A. I have heard that; yes, 

Q. That would be a subterfuge under which they would divide their 
pay, and so you understood it ?— A. I do not know. That is a matter 
of argument. "^ I have no right to make any inference of the kind. 

il. Do vou know any ])articular instance there where men paid forty- 
five dollars a month for board ?— A. ^^o, sir; I do not know an instance 
of any amount they paid. 

Q. Did you ever liear it charged of any particular individual ?— A. 
Ko, sir; of no individual. 

(^ You know of the five or six distillers there whom these rumors 
liavebeen circulated about, but you know of no particular man, neither 
storekeeper nor distiller '?— A. Ko, sir; I have heard it intimated in one 
case. I examined the man myself on a different case. I heard of one 
.storekeeper who was said to be in partnership with a distiller. I exam- 
ined the man in court in a case where a man was indicted for breaking 
into a distillery, and the bill was charged as being the ])roperty of the 
storekeeper. I thouglit it made a little catch against the man and he 
might have a little interest in it. I asked him whether it was so or not ; 
he denied it. He was a man of character, I reckon, and told the truth. 

Q. You said they charged a dollar a bushel for corn ?— A. I did. A 
dollar in that county. 

Q. Is not that on account of the drought ."—A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Taking one vear with another, corn is not more than fifty or sixty 
cents a bushel, is it ?— A. From sixty to seventy-five cents, probably 
from fifty to seventy-five cents. 

Q. ])o'not you know that raising hogs is one of the most important 
items at a distillery ?—xV. Yes, sir; it is considered a profitable Imsi- 

ness. 

Q. Do you not think a man could run a small distillery under i)resent 
conditions in this county, keep hogs and stock and make money ?— A. 
Yes; u])on that alone I do not think he could do it. 

Q. Upon what alone ?— A. From the slop from his still. It avouUI 
justify a large distillery, but do not think it would a small distillery. 

Q. When c<nni is worth from sixty to seventy-five cents per bushel, can- 
not a man run a distillery and derive a legitimate profit by having stock 
there?— A. It depends upon the price of spirits, 1 would suppose— I do 
not know whether so or not. I suppose when corn is high that whisky 
would be higher in proi)ortiou, and I have heard that the price of corn 
does not make any dilference with the distiller; it is better for him to 
run when corn is high than M'hen it is low, for then his whisky is high 
too. 

Q. Suppose whisky is worth $1.40 a gallon and corn is from sixty to 
seventy-five cents a' bushel, would it not be profitable?— A. Y^es, sir; 
probably it would; I have not made the calculation; I do not know 
whether that is the wholesale ])rice of whisky. 

Q. You know these five or six gentlemen who are distilling in your 
county? — A. Yes, sir; I know them. 

Q. Do you look upon them as upright, honest men?— A. I look upon 
them as straightforward men. 

Q. Prudent men ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Thrifty in their business affairs ?— A. As a general thing I think 
they are. 



456 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EE VENUE Iri 

Q. Would they continue to distill right along- without there was a 
legitimate profit in it?— A. I do not think they wonld. 

Q. You are satisfied they would not swear falsely and cheat the gov- 
ernment in that way ?— A. I do not think they would ; cannot believe 
they would. 

Q. They would still go on and keep their stock, run a still, notwith- 
standing the high price of corn?— A. Yes, sir; how they do it I cannot 
tell. 

Q. You are not acquainted with distilling "?— A. i^ot at all, sir. • 

Q. These distillers having stock on hand could not stop their stills 
witnout loss 1 — A. I think not. 

Q. It would be cheaper to run even with the loss they would incur 
than to turn their stock loose f— A. I think it would be necessary, if 
they had a large stock on hand, to get something as feed for them. 

Q. You do not think it was unreasonable when corn was a high price 
for them to run when they had stock on hand instead of feeding them 
on solid corn ?— A. With the additional price of whisky when corn was 
high it is not unreasonable to run, because I understood that a man 
can easily afford to run, because whisky is always high when corn is. 

Q. When corn is high, if they stop running the distillery thev would 
still have to buy corn for their stock?— A. Ye^, sir; unless it was a 
season of the year when they could fatten them up and put them into 
the market ; they might, in the fall, fatten their stock. 

Q.. You say that everybody in that county is satisfied with the reve- 
nue law on whisky? — A. I think so. 

Q. You do not think the people are in favor of abolishing- the law ?— 
A. I think they would be favorably inclined not to abolish the taxes 
entirely, but have them arranged in such a way that it would go to the 
educational fund, or something like that. 

Q. The people would want the law modified or amended?— A. Modi- 
fied. 

Q. Not abolished ?— A. Do not think they would, so far as whisky is 
concerned. 

Q. You are a member of the Democratic party ? — A. lam, and have 
been since the war. I was a Whig before. 

Q. Are you giving what you believe to be the public sentiment in your 
county ? — A. So far as the abolition of the revenue ? 

Q. Yes, sir.— A. Yes, sir; I believe. 

Q. You think if they were in power they would not abolish, but only 
modify it!— A. I do not think they would. 

Q. Judge Avery thought differently.— A. We think for ourselvesdown 
in Catawba. 

Q. You say some young men in your county have become revenue offi- 
cers and changed their politics ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many?— A. I think that every man that goes into it changes. 
There was a man by the name of Hugh Pence; he was a Democrat; I 
think he was first appointed marshal, and then revenue officer ; and I 
understand Manuel Cline used to be a strong Democrat. Now, I under- 
stand, he is a Republican. I think they generally lean that way when 
they get in. 

Q. Are they not young men of good character? — A. Oh, yes; they 
were and are now. 

Q. Are you quite sure that they were not leaning that way when they 
went in, and that was the cause of their appointment? — A. Yery likely 
they leant that way in order to get in. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 457 

I 

By the Chair:man : 

Q. In order to get in the position ?— A. In order to get in the office. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Yon think that is corrupting to these young men '?— A. I do not 
know. If it is corrupt to be a Kepublican, it would be, I reckon ; if to 
be a Republican is not corrupt, it would not be. 

Q. Judge Avery seenuHl to think that it was corrupting the young 
men!— A. I am not here to speak for Judge Avery. 

Q. You are not able to say that you would judge it as corruptuig 
young men? — A. I do not know; I could not say. 

Q. But these are young men of good character ?— A. I think so; yes^ 

sir. 
Q. And have the right to be independent in their political notions? — 

A. Oh, yes; of course. 

Q. And to avail themselves of the benefit of ofiice if they choose tp 
do so ? — A. I think so. 

Q. And that without injury to their character and without any im- 
moral or reproachful act on their part ?— A. They do not stand as high 
with the Democratic party as they did before. 

Q. Do not they stand higher in the Eepnblican party ?— A. I suppose 
they would. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. I want you to make a little calculation on the profits of distilling. 
The price of corn averages about a dollar a bushel? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The price of whisky is about $1.40 a gallon ?— A. I reckon about 
that price. . 

Q. Now, take a four-bushel still and make this calculation: -bour 
bushels of corn, we will say, will make eight gallons of whisky ; four 
bushels of corn at a dollar a bushel, $1 ; taxes on eight gallons of whisky, 
at 90 cents a gallon, 87.20; making 811.20; eight gallons of whisky at 
$1.40, $11.2(K This precisely comes out even, does it not ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the distiller loses his time, his Avages, and wear and tear ot 
his fixtures, and so forth ?— A. Yes, sir ; but I have omitted to stare one 
thing. I think there was one distiller in that county who has two small 
stills. I am not certain how that was. I think JVIr. Ilewitt has two. 
stills. I have heard so. 

Q. Now, taking the same still ; and say it makes ten gallons of whisky, 
having a superior distiller who understands his business and who can 
make a half gallon more than the other. Four bushels of corn, at $1 a 
bushel, 84 ; taxes on ten gallons, 89 ; making $13 ; ten gallons, at $1.40, 
814, leaving a profit of $1.— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That would go to show that the larger the distillery the more profit 
there would be ?— A. Yes, sir ; and then the advantage of feeding stock, 
as you know. That is the reason that a large distiller can distill at a 
smaller profit on the gallon, having his great profit in raising hogs, than 
the smaller ones. 

Q. It is precisely the same thing— an eight-bushel still requires the 
same labor as a four-bushel still ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And no more expense? — A. That is all, I think. 
Q. If a man had an eight-bushel still, and divided it into two four- 
bushel stills, he would quit a business that was giving him a little profit 
to establish a business that would give him none whatever ?— A. Yes, 
sir. 
Q. What other inducement could he have for doing that, except he had 



458 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

some collusion with the storekeeper, or expected to derive some benefit 
from having two storekeepers, instead of one ? — A. I think thatis the way 
the people reason about it. Whether they reason from false premises 
or not I do not know of my own knowledge. 

H. C. O^ENS sworn and examined for the government. 
By the Chairman: 

Question. Where do you reside now ? — Answer. In Burke County, 
near Morganton. 

Q. Were you at one time in the service of the internal revenue? — A. 
I was employed as a distiller awhile. 

Q. In what distillery ? — A. James Lanier's. 

Q. Where is it situated ?— A. Situated about two miles from Salisbury, 
in Eowan County. 

Q. How long were you there in Mr. Lanier's employ? — A. I was there 
a short time. I do not think more than three months at the outside. 

Q. How did you come to leave?— A. I do not know particularly how 
it was. He either turned me off, or I quit myself. 

Q. What was the disagreement between yourself and Mr. Lanier? — 
He wanted me to distill on Sunday, and I refused to do it. 

Q. Did his distillery run on Sunday ?— A. It never did before that. 

Q. Did it, after you left, do so ?— A. The machinery ran that day. 
What they did afterwards I do not know. I will explain why he wanted 
me to run on Sunday, if you will let me. 

Q. Certainly.— A. We had been frozen up three or four days. The 
pipes had burst, and they took until Sunday morning to get the pipes 
and everything replaced. He had some beer on hand, and he said if I 
did not still it out it would spoil, and he wanted me to still it out. I re- 
fused to do so. He said he had no further use for me. He would get a 
man Avho would do it. 

Q. Who was the storekeeper at the time you were there ? — A. Allen 
Eamsay. 

Q. D. A. Eamsay ?— A. Yes, sir ; D. A. Eamsay. 

Q. What was the custom there about weighing out of the material, 
&c., and mashing ? — A. Mr. Eamsay Aveighed out to me how innch every 
morning I needed. He did not do it every morning, but 1 will tell you 
why that was. We had sacks that held exactly just as full as we could 
tie them, and they would not vary from it but a very few pounds. At 
each time I would do my own grinding— I would grind my corn—I first 
filled up the sacks the same way every time, and if he neglected to weigh 
it I would just take enough of them for the amount which was about 
right and go ahead. 

Q. Describe the operations about the distillery when he had weighed 
out your material for you in the morning— the day's work— what did he 
do then ?— A. He would generally go in his office and stay there all 
day. 

Q. Where was his office?- A. In the still-house. 

Q. What did he do with the key of his cistern-room ?— A. He kept it 
in his pocket all the time, unless occasionally, sometimes, we would get 
it to go there to the cistern-room, and then would take it right back and 
^ive it to him. 

Q. Did he ever hang the key up at anv time in a certain place when 
he left the distillery ?— A. ]^ot to my knowledge. 

Q. How about the mash, when he had weighed out the allowance for 
the day ; was there any more put in by Mr. Lanier or anybody else ?— 
A. No, sir; never was. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 459 

Q. Di<l Mr. Lanier order, or even intimate to you, to put more meal 
in the mash f — A.. jSTo, sir; never did. 

Q. Have you any reason for believing tliat all the whisky that was 
made there was accounted for and tax paid ? — A.. I could not say ; I 
suppose it was. I cannot saj' it was or not. 

Q. It was not always under your sight, was it? — A. !N"o, sir. 

Q. What became of it after running out of the still into the cistern - 
room or receiving tubs? — A. Ramsey used to draw it off, and roll the 
barrels over to the warehouse; the warehouse was fifteen or twenty 
steps from the cistern-room. 

Q. And you know nothing of extra meal being put into the mash ? — 
A. IS'o, sir. 

Q. Could it have been done without your knowledge? — A. No, sir; I 
do not think it could, for I was generally in the distillery until quitting 
time at night. 

Q. Was the storekeeper there all the time? — A. Yes, sir; he would 
stay there from early morning till about through work at night. 

Q. Was there any other storekeeper there but Ramsey while you were 
distiller ?— A. ^o, sir. 

Q. He was the only one? — A. The only one. 

Q. You saw no evidence, while you were there as distiller, of any 
double mash ; or any material V)eing used that was not accounted for to 
the storekeeper; or any whisky being surreptitiously removed from the 
distillery; or the key given into IMr. Lanier's hands ? — A. If JMr. Lanier 
had the key I did not know anything of it. 

O. L. Cook, M. D., sworn and examined for the government. 
By the Chairman: 

Question. Where is your residence? — Answer. Wilkes County, I^. C. 

Q. How far from the county seat? — A. Eighteen miles, east. 

Q. You are a physician by profession? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you at one time connected with the internal-revenue service 
of the sixth district of iSI^orth Carolina? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What capacity? — A. Storekeeper and ganger. 

Q. What time did you enter the service? — A. I entered first in Sep- 
tember, 1875. 

Q. As storekeeper and ganger? — A. As storekeeper alone. 

Q. The two offices were not combined then? — A. Xo, sir; were not 
consolidated until afterwards. 

Q. Where were you first assigned ? — A. To John W. Long, in Alex- 
ander County. 

Q. How long did you stay there? — A. Two months; the storekeep- 
ers were changed every sixty days. 

By Mr. Pool: 
Q. What time were you at Long's ? — A. The months of September 
and November, 1875. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Where did von go from there ? — A. I went to Smith's. 

Q. Which Smith's?— A. Theophilus Smith. 

Q. Where is that? — A. In Iredell County, twelve miles west of States- 
ville. 

Q. How long did you stay there ? — A. Two months. 

Q. And you were tlieu changed again? — A. Yes, sir; from there to 
Gaston. 



460 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. To whose distillery'? — A. L. L. Suggs's. 

C^. How long did you stay there? — A. Two months. 

Q. And then, where did yon gof— A. To Catawba, to Elijah Cline's 
distillery. 

Q. How long did you stay there!— A. Two mouths. 

Q. And then where were you transferred to? — A. To Wilkes, to 
Combs's distillery. 

Q. How long did you stay there? — A. Two months. 

Q. And then where? — A. I went baek to Cline's. 

Q. In Catawba? — A. In Catawba. 

Q. What became of you then ?— A. I went back to Combs's at the 
expiration of sixty days. 

Q. That brings up the subject of Combs. The second time you went 
there what time was it, in 1870? — A. I do not think I can answer now 
the year. 

Q. It brings you up to the fall of 187G?— A. I reckon it was. 

Q. When did you cease to be transferred on this two months' sys- 
tem? — A. I think it was in March, 1877 — that President Hayes came in, 
or about the time he came in. I have forgotten .whether 1877 or 1878 
now; but it was the election in 1870. The consolidation took place and 
took effect — I do noc know whether it was everywhere — on the 1st of 
March in the sixth district. 

Q. At any of these places you have mentioned were any propositions 
made to you to divide pay with the distiller? — A. ISTo, sir. 

Q. ISToiie at all ? What did you pay for board?— A. I paid from five 
to ten dollars a month. 

Q. Did you board with the distillers ?— A. Yes, sir; boarded with the 
distillers. 

Q. Your board ranged from five to ten dollars a month? — A. Yes, sir. 
Now, at Suggs's I had my horse. Most of those times I had no horse. 
At Suggs's 1 paid $15 a mouth, and he charged me $10 a month for 
myself and $5 a month for my horse. 

Q. Had there come to you any information concerning this alleged 
practice of dividing between storekeepers and distillers"? — A. I have 
heard of such things being done — heard the rumor; I did not know, of 
my own knowledge, of anything of the kind. 

Q. Did you ever hear any distiller say that he had done it?— A. No, 
sir. 

Q. From Combs's where did you next keep store ? — A. In the next 
place at W. B. Siegrest's. 

Q. Did you make any representation at any time to Collector Mott 
on this subject f — A.. Yes, sir. 

Q. When ?— A. We talked about it several times in the last four 
years, during the time I was hearing these rumors, that the storekeepers 
were dividing their wages, and I knew if it were going on it would ul- 
timately drive me out of the service ; and therefore I felt interested in 
the matter and took occasion to talk to him and told him what I had 
heard about it. 

Q. Did you tell him whereabouts the rumors were located — who it 
was said were doing this ? — A. Of course I could not do otherwise. 
The rumors were located where I was located — doing business on 
Hunting Creek, in Wilkes County; some four or five or six distilleries 
near there. 

Q. Name those distilleries, will you ? — A. Nearest Wilkesborough is 
Porter's; then coming on down, William Sanders's ; and next is Ander- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOETH CAROLINA. 461 

son's ; tbeii Bell's, J. AV. Combs's, J. K. Combs's, W. H. Somers's, J. W. 
Lunsford's, and then Cooper's. 

Q. Which Coo])er?— A. William Cooper, further down the creek. 

Q. AVhat distilleries did you intimate to him in that conversation 
that thinf-- was done at 1—A. I do not remember that I designated or 
singled out any distilleries at all to him. I do not think I did ; if I 
did I do not remember, but merely told him of the common talk, rumor, 
and general opinion. I did it for the purpose of getting him to move 
in the matter, a»nd try to stop it if it did exist. I do not know of the 
fact that it did exist. 

Q. Was there any investigation made into it ?— A. None that I know 
of. 

Q. No move was made as you desired to be done? — A. No, sir; none. 
If there had been I should liave known it. 

Q. Did you at any time have any conversation with Sanders in rela- 
tion to thiit subject'?— A. No, sir. 

Q. With Anderson?— A. No, sir; yes; I and Anderson talked the 
matter over a little. I staid at Anderson's two years. 

Q. Did others of these distillers that you have mentioned say that 
they had been getting storekeepers for a dollar and a half a day; and 
wanted you to conform to the same thing?— A. I think not; I do not 
remember that any asked me to do that. No, sir; for I am very cer- 
tain they did not, as I would have taken it as an insult, and resented 
it. It never was done but once and that was in Catawba, in the last 
distillery where 1 storekept. 

Q. That was when they assigned you in Catawba ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. By whom?— A. By Mr. Hedrick. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Were you assigned to Mr. Headrick's?— A. Yes, sir; the last of 
March a year ago. I staid there during the months of March, April, 
and part of May. They suspended in May. It was run in the young- 
man's name, and the young man ran the distillery. The old man, I dis- 
covered while I was there, got the benefit of the slop, and I think that 
was the remuneration he received for assisting his son in running the 
distillery. The young man started a little too soon, before the collector 
had assigned him a storekeeper; and the special force heard of it, and 
went and seized him. I was out of employment, and I was assigned 
there to start him up. I went and staid there a month, boarding with 
the old man. His son, the distiller, was a young man, had no iiimily, 
and lived with his father. I staid there a month before I said anything 
about board. I could have made very easy terms about it in the begin- 
ning, as they were scared ; as the old man acknowledged afterwards, 
if I had said anything at the start. At the expiration of the first month 
I told him my custom was to settle my board bills at the end of the 
month. I wanted to know what it was, and I wwild settle it. He 
wanted to know what I had been paying at the other distilleries. 

Q. That was the old man?— A. Yes, sir; I and his son had no talk 
on the subject that I remember. He then went on to state that several 
men had offered this, that, and the other, and he said one had offered 
him $70 a month. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. A storekeeper?— A. If he would employ them; some of them were 

storekeepers and others were not. They were applicants who had not 

got in. I told him in conversation that I was not a trading man of that 

kind, and I did not propose to do anything of the sort. I got a little 



462 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

mad. I think I said some rough things to him. I plainly told him to 
tell me what was my bill, and 1 would pay it. I saw he acted on the 
principle of every man doing the best he could for himself. Hesaid, yes. 
Says I, '• Let me know what it is, and I will hunt board somewhere else.'^ 
He said he could not take less than a dollar a day. In the mean tim J 
I had storekept thirty days, and that was $30 board, I then went tol 
a neighbor's; paid $8 a month for the rest of the time I was there. ' 

Q. What did you get board there for "?— A. Eight dollars a month at 
Stme's. 

Q. Was the board as good as you got at the distillers' ?— A. Yes, sir- 
very good board; that is the only time I was storekeeping when any 
man asked me more than the ordinary price for board. 

Q. You have already said, I believe, that none of these other dis- 
tillers ever said to you in conversation what they could get storekeepers 
for •? — A. ISTever have. 

Q. L»o you know anything about the case of a distiller by the name 
of Sebastian, in Wilkes County ? — A. IsTot of my own knowledge. There 
is a storekeeper, I understand, by the name of Sebastian in Wilkes 
County, but as to the case I know nothing except what rumor says. 

Q. Sebastian was a storekeeper. Did you know the distiller to whom 
he was assigned? — A. l^o, sir. 

Q. It is reported that Sebastian owned the distillery at which he was 
storekeeper, and that the distiller Avas a man of straw ?— A. Yes sir. 

Q. How far is he located from you?~A. From where I am now 
living ? 

Q. Yes, sir.— A. I moved this spring to Wilkes; I formerly lived in 
Alexander ; from where I lived it was a mile and a half. It is about 
twelve miles from where I am now living. 

Q. Do you know whether the distillery where Sebastian was store- 
keeper at is in operation now ?— A. I think not, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether Sebastian is still a storekeeper now ?— A. 
Yes, sir ; the report is that he is still storekeeping there. 
By Mr. Pool : 

Q. At that still ?— A. That is the report ; I do not state that for the 
truth; I am only speaking rumor. 

Q. I understood him that the still is not running ? — A. Yes, sir • it 
is not running ; but under the regulations, where there are over two 
thousand gallons of whisky in a warehouse, the owner is entitled to a 
storekeeper to keep charge of it. 

Q. A general storekeeper f— A. No, sir ; a storekeeper. 
By the Chairman ; 

Q. Was there much talk about Sebastian ?— A. I have heard but little 
talk about him. I have not been in the countv until since spring ; just 
moved there, and have not heard a great dealsaid about him. 

Q. You just heard the report is that he was storekeeper at his own 
distdlery, and know it only as a rumor ?— A. Yes, sir ; that is the report. 

Q. You do not know who the man was in whose name the distillery 
was run ?— A. I heard ; I did not pay much attention and have forgotten. 

Q. Who m that section could probably give information to the com- 
mittee about it ?— A. I suppose you can learn it by going to the records 
and seeing where Sebastian was storekeeping ; in that way you can find 
out who the distiller is. 

Q. I meant who can give information about the fact !— A. Who can 
give the information ? 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 463. 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. The first one that ever tokl me was Squire Ambrose 
Wiles. 

Q. Where does he live ; iu that neighborhood ? — A. In Wilkes, on 
Mulberry. 

Q. How did you finally get out of the employ of the government ? — 
A. I resigned. I sent up my resignation last October, to take etiect. 
only after Novend)er. 

Q. Why did you resign ? — A. Simply because I could not get work 
to do. 

Q. Do you know any reason why you were not given work to do ? — 
A. I think it was in consequence of the division of wages with the dis- 
tillers. That is what I thought at the time, and think so yet. Every 
man could do better by the distillers than I could afford to — could pay 
them more for board ;' that is what I thought. 

Q. Do you know any facts that confirm that opinion, that you base- 
it upon? Has any man suspended to get rid of you? — A. I do not 
know of any suspended for the purpose of getting rid of me. Mr. 
Anderson's was the only distillery that suspended while I was store- 
keeper. 

Q. What was his excuse for suspending ? — A. His nephew was going 
out of the business. Anderson is an illiterate man, and had his nephew 
as partner, but his nephew was going out of the business, and he could 
not run the business himself. 

Q. But did he start up afterwards again? — A. Yes, sir; in three 
months afterwards, I think. 

Q. Who was assigned to him as storekeeper ! — A. B. F. Tedder. 

Q. Were youthen without employment? — A. No; I reckon I was out. 
at Hedrick's at that time. 

Q. How long did you hold your commission and was unable to get 
emploj'ment ? — A. I had no employment after December, 1880, except 
two months and a piece of the month of May. I do not recollect. 
Hedrick's distillery suspended in the month of May. I was there from 
March to May, until it suspended. That was all the work I had to do. 
from December, 1880, until I resigned. 

Q. In October, 1881!— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why did you suppose that you were not given work ; were there 
opportunities at distilleries starting where you could be assigned to! — 
A. Yes, sir; there were distilleries starting that I could be assigned to. 
There were others without work like myself, so far as that is concerned. 

Q. Did you apply for assignment! — A. Yes, sir; I wrote to Collector 
Mott six weeks before Mr. Anderson susjiended. Anderson informed 
me very soon after the election in November that he was going to sus- 
pend in the latter part of December. Mr. Anderson was a very strong 
Democrat, and I was as strong a Republican as he was a Democrat, and 
there may have gotten up a little feeling during the campaign between- 
us. We both smothered it, and had no words. Very soon after the 
election he notified me he was going to suspend, and I wrote to Dr. 
Mott about it, informing him of the fact and asking him to fix an assign- 
ment for me on or about the 1st of January following. 

Q. Did you ever keep store for Mr. Cooper? — A. No, sir; I never 
kept store for him. 

Q. He was in Iredell County? — A. No, sir; in Wilkes, near Iredell. 

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with him on the subject? — 
A. Never. 

Q. How far was his distillery froui the nearest point to which you 
were assigned! — A. About 7 or 8 mile;^. 



464 ^ COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q. Is there any otber report tbat you could inform the committee, or 
anything improper in the conduct of the officers of the internal revenue 
or the distillers? — A. Not that I know of. 

Q. You have now given us all the information on the subject that you 
have? — A. I think so, sir. 

Cross-examination by Mr. Pool : 

Q. I have marked eight different assignments you had while you 
were in "f^A. I do not remember the number. 

Q. Commencing in 1875, were you kept pretty steadily on assignment 
from the time you went in at Long's up to the time Anderson stopped"? — 
A. Yes, sir; I do not think I lost more than two months' time. 

Q. That was about six years ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So for about six years you were kept pretty steadily assigned 
nearly all the time, and did not hardlj^ lose any time at all? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. After Mr. Anderson suspended you had an assignment over to 
Mr. Hedrick's? — A. Yes, sir; two months and piece. 

Q. That was in 1881 '?— A. lu 1881. 

Q. Youhadagai), then, from the Istof January, 1881, to March, 1881? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then that was about two months you lost in the six years ? — A. 
Yes, sir; including that gap from the 1st of Januar^^, 1881, to March, 
1881. My answer is I had been regularly employed. I do not include 
that time that I had lost — about two months' time only besides that. 

Q. That w^ould be about four months out of the six years ? — A. 1 sup- 
pose about four months. 

Q. You had got an assignment of two and a half montlis at Mr. Hed- 
rick's "? — A. Something like that. 

Q. That brought you to the middle of May — along in May ? — A. I 
think it was about the 17tli of the month they suspended. 

Q. From the 17th of May to the 1st of October you had no assign- 
ment at all 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. And you resigned ? — A. I resigned. 

Q. Were there not a good many storekeepers out of emi)loyment 
during these six years "? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you know of any one more steadily on an assignment ? — A. 
I do not know whether I did or not. 

Q. Do you know any one who lost any less time than you out of 
the whole six years '? — I do not know of any. 

Q. You W'Ould not charge that you were treated unjustly in that re- 
spect? — A. Yes, sir ; I do that si mplj^ because when I first accepted 
the appointment — Dr. Mott got me appointed twice before I accepted 
it at all. The first appointment I did not accept ; I accepted the sec- 
ond appointment upon the condition I was to have regular work 
to do ; I told the doctor that I had an honorable profession which would 
enable me get a support for my family, and unless I could get steady 
w^ork I could not accept, and until the 1st of January, 1881, he gave 
me work to do except one assignment. He made one assignment, but 
the distiller did not start up, and I lost a little more than a month. 

Q. That was not the doctor's fault? — A. No, sir. 

Q, So for about six years did he not keej) you steadily employed?— 
A. I thought he ought still to have done it. 

Q. How long do you think or consider he ought to have done it? — 
A. As long as there was a distillery running in his district. 

Q. As soon as you did not get regular work you thought better to re- 
sign and go back to your profession ? — A. I had it to do. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 465 

Q. You staid at Anderson's bow long ? — A. About two years. 

Q. Anderson never made any corrupt proposition to you ? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. You do not think Anderson suspended because you would not di- 
vide with him ? — A. I <1() not know about that; he never mentioned any 
thing' of that sort to me. 

Q. You were not sent to Anderson's when he resumed? — A. I was at 
Mpr. Iledrick's. I think Mr. Anderson started — 1st of May I was at Mr. 
Hed rick's. 

Q. Anderson was a very hot Democrat? — A. Yes, sir; ])rett3' strong. 

Q. Are you not a red-hot Republican ? — A. I reckon so, sir. 

Q. Was he a man about your age ? — A. Younger than I am, sir. 

Q. You entered into the canvass and made speeches around ? — A. 1 
canvassed about a week ; that avms all in the last can\'ass. 

Q. And you canvassed with all the earnestness which you felt? — A. 
Always do that, when 1 go into anything, with my whole heart. 

Q. Did you not feel and talk very hot on the stump ? — A. Y^es. 

Q. You said about the Democrats what you believed of them? — A. 
Yes, sii\ 

Q. And you believed of them rather badly? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And some difiSculty arose between you and Mr. Anderson? — A. 
No difficulty. 

Q. I mean unpleasantness? — A. There was a little unpleasantness. 

Q. And shortly after the election he notified you? — A. Soon after the 
election. 

Q. He gave you good reasons — about his nejihew going away? — A.. 
nis nephew going away. 

Q. You have no idea that he suspended because you would not divide 
pay with him, have you ? — A. I do not know as I can answer that (piestion. 
I do not know how that matter was. I know he never mentioned it to 
me. 

Q. You spoke of Mr. Sebastian being owner of the still, as you heard 
the report? — A. I spoke of it only as a report. 

Q. State what the rule was. — A. The rule was this, that where a man 
had two thousand gallons of whisky in his warehouse for a reasonable 
length of time he should have a storekeeper, or if he did not tax-pay it 
or start up again the storekeeper was to be removed. I know that was 
done in Wilkes. AVhile I lived in Alexander it was my understanding 
it was done there. 

Q. Do you know that that matter of Sebastian's has been fully investi- 
gated ? — A. I went away to AViles's and staid at night with him. About 
two months ago there was a man owing me a debt in his neighborhood, 
and I went over there to see him, and that w\as a very good place to 
stay. He is a special friend, a good Eepublican; so I staid all night 
with him. I never would have heard of that except from him. 

Q. From Mr. Wiles ?— A. Mr. Wiles. 

Q. He told you that Sebastian was owner of the still to which he was 
storekeeper ? — A. That was the rumor. 

Q. Did you inform Dr. Mott? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You do not know upon Avhat information that matter was investi- 
gated by the collector ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Who is the deputy collector of that division? — A. Capt. John 
Pedeu. 

Q. Is he a man of high character ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. An efficient officer ? — A. Yes, sir. 
S. Mis. IIG 30 



466 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Q, Would lie allow aujtbing of that sort if he knew of it ? — A. I do 
not think he would knowingly. 

Q. Would he not investigate this as soon as it came to his knowledge, 
judging from his character? — A. I think so, from his character. 

Q. Do not you know the fact that it has been investigated and 
turned out to be untrue? — A. No, sir; never have heard that. What I 
heard was told me by Ambrose Wiles. 

Q. You say you informed Dr. Mott in regard to the whole batch — 
Porters, Sanders, Andersons, Combs, and another Combs'? — A. Sena- 
tor Vance asked me the question how many were running. 

Q. Did the rumor apply to them all ? — A. About dividing their 
•wages f 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. No, sir; I did not intend to answer the question in 
i;hat way. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. I asked you if you informed Dr. Mott of the localities where these 
rumors were located, and in answer to that you mentioned the whole 
batch, but did not cite any particular ones. — A. And I have heard 
nothing further than these distillers were concerned; in fact, I know of 
my own knowledge nothing of the sort, except with some of them at 
Jeast both ofdcers and distillers have told me so. 

By Mr. Pool : 

Q. Which ones the rumor applied to ? — A. It applied to Sanders and 
J. W. Combs ; I believe they were all. 

Q. But two ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You mean it was just a floating rumor in that neighborhood *? — A. 
It was not a floating rumor so far as Sanders was concerned the store- 
keeper assigned there told me he exacted too much board of him. 

Q. Did he state how much? — A. I think a dollar a day; I think the 
other stated two dollars a day. 

Q. The other storekeeper "I — A. Yes, sir. '^ 

Q. Who was he ?— A. Mr. Johnson. 

Q. Who was the first one ? — A. J. A. Summers. 

Q. And you reported that to Dr. Mott? — A. I did not. I told them, 
when they informed me, to report it to Dr. Mott or to the ofi&ce, and 
Summers told me he did; but he wrote to a clerk in the office, and it 
might never have got to the doctor's ears ; he wrote to Mr. Brown. 

Q. Mr. Brown was a clerk in the office ? — A. A deputy. 

Q. When was that "? — A. Those gentlemen told me about this since I 
went out of office. 

Q. Since last October '? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long ago ? — A. It was in the winter or spring. 

Q, This last spring"? — A. I think so ; this last winter or spring. 

Q. You say you did not report it to Dr. Mott ? — A. No, sir ; I had 
gone out of office then. 

Q. I understood in your former testimony you said you did report 
it"? — A. jS"o, sir; I reported the rumors; I never made any special re- 
port of any particular case. Just the rumors and those two cases I 
spoke of were reported to me after I had resigned, and I just told the 
storekeeper to report it to the office, and Summers told me afterwards 
that he had. He had written to Mr. Brown. 

Q. That he was charging too much board ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know the locality where Combs's and Sanders's distilleries 
are situated ? — A. Do I ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. Yes, sir. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 467 

Q. Was there any other place there where the storekeepers could 
have boarded ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And gotten good board? — A. Gotten good board. 

(}. Why did the storekeeper complain to you that he Avas charged too 
much at Conibs's. Why did he not go somewhere else to board ? — A. 
For this reason : this exaction has been made by the distillers, and if 
they do not give it they would suspend. They are left the alternative 
cither of giving or going out of employment. 

Q. Could Dr. Mott prevent them from suspending if they wanted 
to '. — A. No, sir. 

Q. So he could have no control over it? — A. He could have control 
over that matter, I sup])ose. I reckon Dr. Mott did stop one man from 
suspending — J. E. Combs — in a way that satisfied the storekeeper. 

(}. Stopped him from suspending ? — A. I reckon he did do it, from the 
message sent to him. 

Q. What was the character of the message ! — A. J. E. Henderson in- 
formed me that Combs wanted half his wages, and he was refusing to 
give it. He reported the case to the office, and Dr. Mott sent word to 
Combs if he suspended under Henderson, unless Henderson got drunk 
or grossly neglected his business in some way, that his damned distil- 
lery might dry up, and there has been no talk of suspending since. 

Q. Dr. Mott could not prevent a distiller from suspending if he chose 
to suspend ? — A. Of course not. 

Q. And could not prevent him from starting again after complying 
with the law f — A. No, sir. 

Q. So that he had no power, really, over it ? — A. No ]fower. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Mr. Henderson told you that ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Mr. Summers told you he paid a dollar a day to him ? — A. To San- 
ders. 

Q. And Johnson paid two dollars a day '? — A. No, sir; did not pay it; 
Johnson would not pay it, and Sanders suspended. Sanders demanded 
of him two dollars, and Johnson would not pay, and he suspended. 

Q. Did Johnson tell you anything ]nore than that; did Sanders claim 
that every storekeeper had done so by him, and that he must do it ? — 
A. Oh, yes; Sanders told him he could get them, and would not run 
under him unless he would give it. 

Q. You say when you first started out they changed the storekeepers 
every sixtj^ days. Do you not know that was done by order of the de- 
partment here, for the purpose of preventing collusion between store- 
keepers and distilleries ? — A. My understanding was it was done bj" the 
supervisor 

Q. You are correct. The report is here on file, to break up this very 
evil. — A. To prevent it ; it did not exist then. 

Q. Do you know why they ceased to change them ? — A. I do not. The 
office of supervisor was abolished, and I think that matter was left to 
the collectors. 

Q. And they did not renew the order? — A. They did not renew the 
order; that was my understanding. 

Q. You did not know why they did not renew ? — A. I did not know 
why. 

Q. I want to ask you a question, which I forgot in my first examina- 
tion, about the capacities of most of those distilleries where you were 
assigned and have spoken of here ? — A. At first most of them were six 
and seven bushels, but after the order was issued from the department, 



468 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

of the Commissioner of Internal Eevenue, that he would recognize dis- 
tilleries of smaller capacities, as four bushels, but he required twenty- 
one gallons to be made every three days ; that was the smallest, and 
that Avould a little over cover the exijenses j as soon as that order was 
issued most of the new ones that went into operation were four-bushel 
distilleries. I suppose the principal reason that they prefer four-bushel 
distilleries, it was round niimbers and easy to calculate and so on, and 
some of them have been cut down from six and seven to four bushels. 

Q. Do you know of a man who had a seven-bushel still start with 
two four-bushel ones ! — A. In Wilkes there are one or two cases of that 
kind. Mr. William Cooper, when the order was issued from the depart- 
ment recogniziug distilleries of small capacity of twenty-one gallons 
l)rodnced every three days, I think he was running one distillery at the 
time, and since then has started up two. 

Q. Of what capacity 1 — A. I think four-bushel distilleries. I never 
store-kei^t for him. 

Q. Is it not more expensive to run two distilleries of four bushels 
each than one of eight ! — A. I think it is. 

Q. It requires two practical distillers instead of one '! — A. Two sets 
of hands. 

Q. And pretty much the same amount of fuel in the furnace ? — A. 
Very nearly; not quite so much. 

Q. What was the common price of whisky at the distilleries there by 
the quantity ? — A. Some years more and some less ; I suppose it aver- 
aged about $1.40 per gallon ; some years down to $1.25. 

Q. You hav* heard the calculations I have made here for Mr. Mc- 
Corkle and Judge Avery ? — A. Yes, sir; I heard the calculations. 

Q. Was there any money in a small distillery at the price they were 
selling liquor, $1.40 a gallon, when corn was high, and $1.25 a gallon 
when it was cheap ? — A. A distiller told me this : that they made no 
money on their whisky ; just so they got clear of expenses over the 
whisky they were satisfied ; that the slop would remunerate them. 

Q. Feeding it to hogs ? — A. And to cattle. I know the last year 
where I store-kept the man killed 9,000 pounds of j)ork from a four- 
bushel distillery, and he calculated that this would make five or eight 
hundred dollars that he got on the slop, and consequently there is where 
the profit is. 

Q. ISTot in the whisky ? — A. ^STo, sir ; not in the whisky ; the}^ say if 
they can clear expenses they are satisfied. 

Q. Who was Combs' partner, or did he have any ? — A. When ? 

Q. I have information that &Combs had a wholesale liquor 

house. — A. That was the two Combses ; J. E. and J. W. Combs were 
brothers, and Eeese Johnson was brother-in-law of J. E. Combs; they 
were wholesale liquor dealers, and there was another Combs a whole- 
sale liquor dealer, James Combs, there in the same neighborhood. 

Q. This is the firm of Combs & Johnson, I presume, that had a whole- 
sale liquor house "I — A. Yes, sir ; they were manufacturers and whole- 
sale liquor dealers. 

Q. Do you know if they got into some trouble and had some liquor 
seized down there 1 — A. I heard of it, but I cannot give you particulars. 

Q. I want the particulars. — A. I heard they had some whisky seized. 

Q. Did you hear it was seized and report made by J. Q. A. Bryan in 
regard to it? — A. No, sir; I knew nothing about that. 

By Mr. Pool : 
Q. Certainly there is nothing improper in these gentlemen being 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 469 

wbolesale dealers and distillers at the same time? — A. No, sir; not that 
I know of. 

Senator McDill. I will offer in evidence pp. 99 to 109, inclusive, of 
Ex. Doc. Xo. G2, Forty-sixth Congress, second session : 

Treasury Department, 
Ofeice of Ixternal Eevenue, 

December 21, 1876. 
Sir : I desire you to take immediate steps to break up the illicit business iu tlie Y>ro- 
dnction and sale of tobacco aud spirits in your district. Frauds agaiust the revenue 
ill North Carolina have become so open aud notorious that a strong feeling prevails at 
this (itiice that these frauds could not exist and continue without the acquiescence of 
local othcers. 

I desire yon to look over your list of deputy collectors, and if you have any men 
-vvho are not thoroughly honest aud efficient, to dismiss them at once, and replace them 
by itersons who are. 

The collectors and their deputies will l)e held resiionsible for breaking up all fraud- 
ulent practices in their respective districts. 

Revenue Agent Wagner will be directed to ciill upon you and consult with you, 
and, as far as may be, aid you in breaking up these frauds. 

You must have deputies who will thoroughly police their divisions, and who will 
regularly visit tobacco factories and distilleries to see that everything is going on ac- 
cording to law. BIockadu}(j must be stopped. There is no reason why the manufact- 
urers of your State shall not pay taxes on their products just like manufacturers of 
other sections of the country. The taxes are paid by consumers iu the end. 
I wish you to give this matter ,your active and energetic supervision. 
Very respectfully, 

GREEN B. EAUM, 

Commissioner, 
J. J. MoTT, Esq., 

Collector, Statesville, K. C. 

\ 

[Telegram.] 

Greexsborough, N. C, February 9, 1877. 
Hon. Greex B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Bevenue: 
Sir: District Attorney Lusk writes Marshal Douglas that at a trial of a distiller 
before Commissioner Morris, in Henderson County, North Carolina, on the 3d, twenty 
armed men attacked the court, fatally wounding Harkins, deputy marshal. Other 
officers escaped. Distiller fatally wounded. Am executing your orders rapidly as 
possible. 

JACOB WAGNER, 

Herenue Agent, 



Treasury Department, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

Washington, April 18, 1877. 
Sir: It is reported at this office that cumulative suits are being brought agaiust 
Ecvenue Agent Wagner and his employes by persons Avho have been arrested for illicit 
distillation. It is believed that these proceedings are instituted for the purpose of de- 
terring officers from discharging their duties, and iu order to intimidate them from 
appearing as witnesses against violators of the internal-revenue laws. 

I desire to assure you that the whole power of the government will be invoked to 
sustain and support all officers of the interual revenue iu the proper and faithful dis- 
charge of their duties, and I trust that none of the officers will be deterred from a 
fearless performance of official duty by threats of prosecution. I wish you to see that 
the proceedings agaiust the illicit distillers aud tobacco manufacturers in your district 
who have been complained of for violations of law are rigorously prosecuted. 

This office has great confidence iu Major Wagner, and is satisfied that he has done 
no act iu the prosecution of his work that will not be justified by a proper application 
of the rules of law. 
Respectfnllv, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissioner, 
J. J. MoTT, Esq., 

Collector Sixth District, Statesville, K. C. 



470 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

UxiTED States Internal Revenue, 

Greenville, S. C, April 23, 1877. 

Sir : On the 14th instant I was arraigned before A. P. Eckels, justice of the peace 
of Greensborongh, N. C, together with George Croneuberger and Chas. Clark, de])uty 
U. S. marshals, and John Wagner, C. A. Kile, Chas. McCormick, James Foster, Wm. 
H. McCormick, and Henry Clark, men employed by me to assist me in araid on illicit 
distillers in Randolph County, North Carolina, on the Slst of December last, on a 
warrant issued on oath of R. H. Kennett, one of three men Avhom we chanced to 
pick up with a quantity of illicit whisky in their possession, which they were remov- 
ing in a wagon. The warrant charged us with " assault and battery and false im- 
prisonment," and after a hearing we were held in a total sura of $1,900 bail for our 
appearance at Guilford County superior court, in September next. I made the bail 
for myself and men, while the deputy marshals provided their own. 

The facts constituting the basis of this action are as follows : 

We were proceeding to the distilleries in Randolph County on the night named, 
when, about 10 o'clock, we met Thomas Kirkmau, R. H, Kennett, and Robert Han- 
nah, with a wagon containing a barrel with 9^ gallons of whisky. Satisfying our- 
selves that it was illicit, I took charge of the team and whisky, and the marshals 
took the men. There were no warrants for their arrest issued until next day, when, 
immediately on our return to Greensborongh, they were taken before a commissioner, 
the nearest from the point where thej^ were arrested. 

The party divided during the night, and the marshals handcuffed the prisoners to 
prevent their escape. The evidence on Avhich we were bound over by the justice of 
the peace was that of R. H. Kennett, a full statement of which I herewith inclose. 

I respectfully request a careful perusal of this testimony, which shows that the 
parties were caught in the act. 

I respectfully submit that, under the statutes of the United States, marshals and 
their deputies have the powers of sheriffs iu the States where they are appointed and 
act, and that as sheriffs may arrest persons found committing violations of law, even 
of the grade of misdemeanors, without warrants, so I hold that United States marshals 
may arrest persons caught committing the offense these parties were engaged in. In 
support of this I have the opinion of Judge Hugh L. Bond, District Attorneys Lnsk 
and Ball, and the ruling of Judges A. H. Rives and George S. Bryan. 

I also respectfully request that the United States district attorney for the western 
district of North Carolina may be instructed to defend me and all the persons above 
named iu this suit, after having the same removed to the United States circuit court. 
Very respectfully, 

JACOB WAGNER, 

Revenue Agent. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, D. C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statesville, April 23, 1877. 

Sir: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 18th instant, 
relative to suits which are being brought against Revenue Ageut Wagner, and stating 
that "it is believed that these proceedings are instituted for the purpose of deterring 
officers from discharging their duties and to intimidate them from appearing as wit- 
nesses against violators of the internal-revenue laws." 

The opinion of the department is, to the best of my knowledge, correct, and the 
action of the judges of the superior courts in this State is calculated to uphold and 
encourage illicit distillers, &c., and to create armed resistance to the operations of my 
officers under the law and your instructions. 

Additional encouragement is spread broadcast before the offenders against the rev- 
enue laws by the newspapers in the State, extracts from which I have the honor to 
inclose herewith. 

The provisions of section 643, Revised Statutes, are declared unconstitutional, and 
are totally disregarded. The officers of internal revenue concerned in these cases, 
and who have been indicted in the State courts, are rendered liable to arrest and im- 
prisonment, without recourse, and if fortunate enough to obtain temporary bail (accept- 
able to the prosecutors) they are put to unusual and extraordinary expenses, for 
which no provision is made, and which is not reimbursed to them, thus causing heavy 
expenditures (for them) from their already slender pay. 

Under these circumstances my officers express a disinclination to proceed with the 
operations instituted against illegal operators unless some provision is made for their 
protection, and I recommend that a provision be made by the department for the pay- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 471 

meut of all fees (for coiiusel, »&c.) iu all cases of this character which are now or may 
hereafter be brought before the State conrts in this district against officers of internal 
revenue. 

I may add that seven of my officers are now under indictment for similar causes, 
and that it has been only by the greatest exertion on my part, and by the expenditure 
of a considerable amount for counsel fees, &c., that they are itow out of primn, on bail. 

I may add that, because oi the popular feeling against the revenue, it is extremely 
difficult to obtain the services of any reliable attorney in our behalf. I succeeded in 
the cases now on hand only by payment of "retainers" of unusual amount, supple- 
mented with promises of further compensation. 

I beg your early consideration of and reply to this letter. 
Very respectfully, 



Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, D. C. 



J. J. MOTT, Collector. 



Treasury Department, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

Washington, June 16, 1877. 

Sir : For a number of years the illicit manufacture and sale of spirits and tobacco 
have been carried on in certain districts throughout the United Statfs, in many in- 
stances iu open defiance of the officers of internal revenue, so that the ordinary ar- 
rangements for the collection of internal revenue taxes have been insufficient for the 
suppression of these frauds. I have determined that the next fiscal year shall be sig- 
nalized by the suppression of these frauds, aud to that end, in recommending allow- 
ances for collectors for the fiscal year commencing July 1, 1877, 1 have reserved a sum 
of money to be especially devoted to the employment of additional deputy collectors 
from time to time to aid the regular force in the work above alluded to. It is not 
proposed to keep this extra force of deputies continuously employed, but to employ 
them at proper times to assist policing the infested portions of the district, so that the 
men engaged in the frauds will become satisfied that their occupation is too danger- 
ous to be persisted in, and that in consequence they will abandon their unlawful 
business. I expect collectors in the infested districts to act with great energy and 
determination for the suppression of these frauds, and, in the selection of deputies for 
the work, to secure the services of men of integrity, sobriety, and courage. 

It is expected that the operations against those who are engaged in the illicit man- 
ufacture and sale of spirits and tobacco shall be conducted in an orderly and legal 
manner, so as to challenge the respect of well-meaning people, but with a vigor, de- 
termination, and persistency that will convince wrong-doers that it is the intention 
of the government to break up their unlawful operations. 

It is well known that numerous persons are now engaged in the illicit manufacture 
and sale of spirits iuyour district, and I desire that you shall take immediate steps to 
suppress the same with a strong hand, and for that puri)ose you will please forward 
your application for allowance for deputy collectors for your district, stating the num- 
ber of deputies required, the period of time for which their services will be needed, 
and the amount of pay, including horse-hire and traveling expenses, that shall be 
allowed them. It is important that suitable arrangements shall be made for co- 
operation by the United States marshal for your district, so that the arrest of distil- 
lers can be effected at the time of the seizure of the stills. 

Prompt action is desired in this matter. Please acknowledge the receipt of this 
letter. 

Very respectfully, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissioner. 

John J. Mott, Esq., 

Collector Sixth District, StatesviUe, iV. C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

StatesviUe, October 8, 1877. 
Sir: I have the honor to submit the following report relative to a raid recently 
made in Burke County, in uiy district : 

Deputy Collector A. B. Gillespie, accomuanied by Deputy Marshals Patterson and 
McDowell and two assistants (five in all), started from Morganton on the evening 



472 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

of October 1, inteudiug to make a seizure of stills and whisky, illicit, reported to 
Deputy Gillespie. 

The names of the distillers, as reported, were James York, Nicholas York, and Harvey 
York ; and the location in South Mountains, about 16 miles from Morganton. 

Arriving early on October 2 a. m., they found three distilleries operating illicitly; 
at one of them the still had been removed recently (tire was still under the furnace). 

The two stills, with caps and worms complete, were brought to Morganton. Search 
in the vicinity discovered about 60 gallons of whisky and two barrels of brandy, all 
unstamped. The whisky was destroyed for want of transportation ; but the brandy 
was safely brought to Morganton. 

Two persons were found in the still-house, situated on James York's plantation, and 
supposed to belong to Nicholas York. The persons were arrested and brought to Mor- 
ganton aud coutined in jail to await action by the United States commissioner. Their 
names are Nicholas York and Alfred Hoyle. They were working in the still-house when 
arrested. 

While searching in the vicinity fire was suddenly opened upon the United States 
officers by persons concealed in the bushes and behind trees and rocks. The number 
of assailants is estimated to be twelve. They were all armed with long rifles. The 
officers retreated with their prisoners and captured property down the mountain, 
being met at every turn of the narrow 'and rough road by the attacking party, who, 
out of sight and range of the officers' pistols, kept up a persistent tire. From about 8 
a. m. October 2 until 12 m. the firing upon the officers was kept up. 

All of the officers except one Avere hit with the bullets, aud Deputy Collector Gil- 
lespie was seriously wounded. A bullet entered his right shoulder, penetratinglback- 
ward and toward his left side as far as the backbone. He is now at Morganton, 
under medical treatment. The ball has uot been extracted. 

The horse ridden by McDowell, a fine animal, and belonging to him, was killed early 
in the day, aud the one belonging to Patterson was severely wounded. The party 
arrived at Morganton on their return about 7 p. ni. October 2. 

The locality raided by Mr. Gillespie and his companions is notoriously a daugerous 
©ue, and the inhabitants are unscrupulous desperadoes ; all interested in illicit dis- 
tilling. They band together, as in this case, for mutual protection against and resist- 
ance to revenue officers and the laws. 

Previous to this occurrence United States soldiers have been shot at and wounded, 
aud in one instance killed. 

In a neighboring township these same officers, while in the performance of their 
duty, were, about two weeks ago, shot at from behind shelter. 

I would suggest that prompt and vigorous measures be at once taken to suppress 
illicit distilling in this section, and to bring the otienders in this case to justice. They 
can be identified. 

Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, CoUecior. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Berenuc, Washington, D. C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statesville, December 10, 1877. 
Sir: I have the honor to state that, in my opinion, the efficiency of my deputies 
(special force) will be greatly increased to have them properly armed. 

I therefore make requisition for ten repeating carbines and a sufficient quantity of 
cartridges, and request that they may be forwarded to this office as soon as possible. 
Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 
Hon. G. B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Eevenue, Washinyloi), D. C. 



Treasury Department, 
Office Internal Revenue, 

December 22, 1877. 

Sir: I desire to call your attention to the importance of vigorous action on the part 
•of all revenue officers for the suppression of illicit distillation. 

I am gratified by the zeal heretofore manifested by you in this direction and with 
the results attained in your district. The season has arrived when illicit distillers are 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 473 

usually the most active. I trust that you will take such prompt ami active measures 
to break up this illicit traftic as will give theofteuders to umlerstaud that the laws for 
the suppression of illicit distillatiou are to be euforced ami all violators thereof brought 
to puuishmeut. I am satisfied that such actiou will have the etiect to deter mauy old 
oft'enders from engaging in their former unlawful business, and thus save the govern- 
ment much trouble and expense. 

Your allowance for six special deputy collectors continues to the 1.5th proximo. I 
trust that you will nse them to the best advantage during the intervening time, and 
that at the expiration of that period you will have accomplished a good deal. Yon 
have also a considerable amount to your credit from the allowance made you for the 
employment of guides, »S:c. With this force I think you should be able to break up 
illicit distillation in your district. 

No definite reports as to the result of your operatit)ns for the suppression of illicit 
distillation have been received for some time, and I am unable to judge what you 
have accomplished Ijy the aid of your si^ecial deputies. I have to request that you 
will report somewhat in detail to this office at an early day what you have already 
done and are now doing for the sui)pression of the frauds above referred to, stating 
also the general condition of your district in respect to illicit distillation. 
Respectfullv, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Comviissioner. 

J. J. MOTT, Esq., 

Collector Internal Revenue, Statesville, N, C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Oi fice, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statenville, Decemher :\0, 1877. 

Sir : I have the honor to give you the following information in regard to the recent 
cases of the indictment of my otficers in Burke County couVt, this State. 

The defendants, six in number, were indicted for assault and battery and false im- 
prisonment in four cases, by one Oates, workman, and York. The bill of indictment 
was found at fall term 1H77, and on the grand jury were near relations of those on 
whom the offense is alleged to have been committed. 

The scene of the offense is South Mountains, in Burke County, North Carolina, 
where there has heretofore been much armed resistance to the enforcement of the 
revenue laws, and where even United States soldiers have more than once been tired 
upon. 

On the '2d of October, 1877, the defendants went to the locality for the purpose of 
suppressing the unlawful distillation of spirits. At a certain notorious point they 
found 25 hogsheads of beer, a hogshead of singlings, and a still in full operation. They 
also found a brandy still in operation. Both still-houses were pierced for the use of 
guns in their defense, and guns loaded were found in both. 

At a house near the distillery they ai'rested a person whom they suspected of being 
connected with the violations of the law, and two others in the still-houses. While 
employed in the discharge of their duties, in destroying the beer and removing the 
stills, the defendants were fired on from the bushes with rifles, the persons shooting 
being from one to two hundred yards off. As many as four shots were fired before the 
fire was returned. The persons thus concealed then continued to fire until as many 
as forty shots were fired. 

The defendants were armed with small (.3 and 4 inch barrel) revolvers. All of the 
defendants were struck, one (Gillespie) was severely wounded in ihe shoulder, one 
received a bullet in his hat, and one horse was killed. The firing continued for four 
hours at intervals, the defendants being followed from the still-houses until they were 
out of the suspected and rebellious vicinity. They were only saved by keeping the 
prisoners in a line close to themselves. 

None of the persons who were firing on the defendants were struck. The indict- 
ment is procured in the State court against these officers for the purpose of compelling 
the officers of the government to desist in the prosecution of the oft'enders. Of course 
there is not the "ghost of a chance" for the defendants in the State courts ; therefore 
steps were taken to remove the cases. 

It is positively certain that a regular and organized system of illicit distillation is 
carried on in the vicinity referred to above, and for its Y)rotection regular picket lines 
are kept up, and no revenue officer can go into the vicinity without certain and de- 
termined attacks being made on his life. The court at Morganton (State court) 
refused to allow a transfer of these cases, which caused me much trouble, as I deter 
rained to use every legitimate means to remove them, and had to resort to habeas 



474 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

corpus, which necessitated the employing of additional counsel here before the United 
States court. 

Very respectfully, 

J. J, MOTT, Collector. 
Hon. G. B. Raitm, 

Commissioner Internal lieveniie, Washington, D. C. 



Treasury Department, 
Office Internal Eevenue, 

Jjyi'ild, 1878. 
Sir : Hon. AV. M. Robbins has referred to this office the petition of William A. Mc- 
Glainey and lifteen others, addressed to the President, asking that T. Marshal McNeill, 
of Wilkes County, for whom it is alleged a warrant has been issued upon a charge of 
illicit distilling, be pardoned. It is asserted that Mr. McNeill has abandoned his vio- 
lations of law, and is now engaged with McNeill, Hays & Co., as a lawful distiller. 
If this is trlie, I would be williug to dispose of the charge against him by suspending 
the judgment of the court upon his pleading guilty to the charge, thus placing him 
upon his good behavior. 

You will please consult with the district attorney upon this subject, and take such 
action in the matter as will be just and proper under the circumstances. 
Very respectfully, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissioner. 
J. J. Mott, Esq., 

Collector, Statesville, N. C. 



TKEAStTRY Department, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

JVashington, March 13, 1878. 
Sir: I desire that you would, as early as practicable, inform this office of the con- 
dition of your district iu regard to illicit distillation, and what further means, if any, 
are necessary to effectually sujipress these frauds and secure the arrest and punish- 
ment of the violators of the law in this respect. 

I am aware that, during the past winter, you have accomplished much, but to 
secure the greatest benefit to the government in this work, and to render the results 
permanent, there should be no relaxation of effort while you have reason to believe 
that a still is being illicitly operated in your district. 

With a view to continuing operations in this direction, I have to request that you 
will, iu your report of the condition of your district, embrace a statement of the 
expenditures that it will probably be necessary for you to make during the next three 
months, for information leading to the discovery of stills, employment of guides, &c. 
This allowance is to be regarded as exclusive of the amount allowed you for the 
employment of special deputy collectors. 
Respectfully, 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissioner-. 
J. J. Mott, Esq., 

Collector Internal Eevenue, Statesville, N. C. 



[Telegram.] 

Treasury Department, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

May 22, 1878. 
If you deem it advisable to have assistant counsel for the defense of Gillespie, the 
Pattersons, and McDowells, consult with the district attorney and employ one or more 
prominent lawyers. The Attorney-General is absent from the city, but I will under- 
take to see that the assistant counsel are properly remunerated for their services. It 
is the determination of the government to protect its officers with every means at its 
hands against unjust prosecution trumped up for the p\irpose of deterring them from 
enforcing the laws. 

GREEN B. RAUM, 

Commissionei: 
J. J. Mott, 

Collector, Statesville, N. C. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 475 

Unitko States Inteunal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Staiesrille, June IT, 1878. 

Sir : I have the honor to report that on the 11th instant, Special Deputy Lillingtou, 
with two others (one a guide), were in a part of the Brushy Mountains, in this district, 
about 30 miles distant from this office, searching for illicit distilleries, when, without 
the slightest warning, they were fired upon by persons concealed. 

The number of the assailants being unknown, and the nature of the locality being 
such as to {ireclude all possibility of detecting or successfully resisting them with the 
small force at his command, Deputy Lillingtou retreated to the main road, which was 
about a mile distant. During their retreat the tiring was continued; and, although 
the bullets cut the trees and struck in the ground around the deputies, neitlierof them 
was injured. 

This assault was committed in the neighborhood where, on March 19, 1878, a dis- 
tillery belonging to Berry Estep and J. F. Parlier was cut up by my deputies (report 
on Form 117, rendered March 10, 1878), and L. F. Parlier (son of J. F.) is reported as 
being connected with the gang who were concerned in the shooting. Evidence is 
being worked up to connect him therewith. 

In this connection, and to demonstrate in some degree the lawlessness which exists 
in certain portions of this district, as in connection with illicit distilleries, I have to 
inform you that I am, this day, in receipt of a report, bearing date June 15, from 
Deputy Collector Bryan, at Morganton, who states as follows : 

"Old man Ramsey, of South Mountains, was here yesterday, and a fellow from Brin- 
dletown knocked him down with a rock and then stamped him in the face. 

" These fellows accuse Ramsey of reporting them. They killed his horse some weeks 
past; Ramsey then borrowed a mule from Amos Huflman to tend his crop, and last 
Tuesday night they shot the mule dead in Ramsey's stable; and my opinion is they 
will kill Ramsey if he remains in that section long. * * » 

"There are a good many illicit distilleries in operation in these mountains, but 
everybody is afraid to tell on these fellows for fear they get the fate of Ramsey. I 
am tVying to 'spot' them, and if I can ' get the dots on them' I will report the same 
at once. * * * 

"The very devil is in these outlaws, and they will be very hard to tame." 

I am doing my best to exterminate this evil in my district, but, to quote the words 
of Deputy Brvan, "the very devil is in them," &c. 

When a law-abiding citizen makes any report which leads to the detection or arrest 
of any of these "outlaws," if it becomes known, he is persecuted in every imaginable 
way, as in the case of " Ramsey." 

Such things have been happening here all along, but I have refrained from reporting 
all of them, because I disliked to advertise the community so much, and hoped that 
such conduct would cease. 

I shall give it all in future to you and to such of the press of the State as will pub- 
lish it, particularly as there is no abatement of this malicious enmity toward officers 
of the revenue on the part of many of these people and their friends, and also because 
the Congress of the United States seems about to be influenced by them to refuse to 
officers of the revenue the trial of their causes in the United States courts, Avheu it is 
well known that these officers cannot get justice in the State courts, where the officers 
of the State courts vie with each other in their persecutions of revenue men, and 
make such persecutions a means of keeping themselves in office and exalting them- 
selves before the people. 
Very respectfclly, 

■^ J. J. MOTT, CoUector. 

Hon. G. B. Rai'M, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, D. C. 



United States Internal Renenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statesville, July 5, 1878. 

Sir : I have the honor to report that during May and .June, 1878, the force of special 




vania. 

During May they traveled about 650 miles, and during June 600 miles, visiting and 
destroying 69 illicit distilleries. 

There were destroyed during these months 36 copper stills and fixtures; 704 stands 



476 " COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

of beer or mash, averaging 100 gallons each, being 70,400 gallons beer or masli ; 153 
empty stands ; 40 bushels meal or malt ; 1,080 gallons singlings ; 85 gallons -whisky. 

More stills wonld have been destroyed had it not been for the habit which the 
illicit distillers, in their fear of surprises by the deputies, have been practicing, of 
taking out their stills during the time used in mashing and fermenting, and replacing 
them for short and indefinite periods for " running oft" singlings or whisky. 

Distilleries would be found filled with mash or beer, but from which the still had 
been removed. Evidence has been obtained which warranted the issuance by the 
several United States commissioners of warrants for the arrest of many of the parties 
concerned in the operation of the illicit distilleries destroyed. 

Resistance was attempted in several cases, but no one was injured. 

On June 15 the force surrounded and captnred five prisoners; four of whom Avere 
released on bail, and the fifth one, Thomas Beasley, a partner of the notorious Eedman, 
and who was by him released from Pickens (S. C. ) jail, was turned over to the custody 
of Special Deputy Huftman and a squad from South Carolina. 

A letter since received from Huftman gives the information that shortly after his 
departure for South Carolina with the prisoner, his command was attacked by about 
60 men, with intent to resciie Beasley, who, however, was closely and safely guarded 
to jail again. 

The force is now operating in South Mountains, in Burke County, with success. 

During the latter part of June two members of the force were taken seriously and 
suddenly 'ill, overcome with heat, fatigue, and exposure. A few days of rest for the 
men and greatly needed by their horses were taken before proceeding to Burke. 
Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 

Hon. G. B. Raum, 

Commissioner Iniernal Eerenue, JVashinr/ton, D. C. 



[Telegram, j 



Treasury Departmj:nt, 

Office of Internal Revenue, 

' Washington , October 25, 1878. 

J. J. MOTT, 

Collector, Statesville, K. C. ; 
The Attorney-General, ujjon the recommendation of this office, telegraphs District- 
Attorney Lusk this day to allow persons guilty of violation of internal-revenue laws, 
in regard to distilled spirits, to plead guilty, sentence to be suspended upon payment 
of costs, and not to be moved for except in case of future violation. This is not to 
apply to persons who have been guilty of forcibly resisting inte^nal-reven^^e officers. 

H. C. ROGERS, 

Acting Commissioner. 



TrtE.\suRY Department, 
Office of Internal Revenue, 

October 2G, 1878. 

Sir : Referring to telegram sent yesterday informing you that the Attorney-General 
had instructed United States Attorney Lusk to consent to the suspension of sentence 
in cases pending against persons in your district for violations of internal-revenue law 
in connection with distilled spirits, I have to inform you that it is not the intention 
of the government to relax its efforts in prosecuting its work for the sux^pressiou of 
the production of and traffic in illicit spirits in your district, and I desire that you 
now press your operations with increased vigor, and that you reorganize your force of 
special deputy collectors and thoroughly police your whole district. 

I think your force is ample for this purpose ; if, however, you need any further 
means advise this office immediately. 

It is hoped and expected that the indulgence granted hj the government to illicit 
distillers for past ofteuses will have a salutary ettect in your district, but do not let the 
forbearance of the government to prosecute oftenders for the past be misunderstood. 
Hereafter, jiersons who engage in illicit distilling will be prosecuted to the extent of 
the law. 

I have directed Revenue Agent Chapman to confer and co-operate with you, and 
trust that you will at once enter with renewed vigor, if possible, upon the work of 
entirely ei'adicating from your district the evil of illicit distilling. I will strengthen 
you in every way possible. 

Please report to this office your plans and arrangements for the future and I will be 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF l^ORTH CAROLINA. 477 

glad to biivc you inform me wliat effect the amnesty granted seems to produceiu your 
part of the State. 

Respectfully, 

H. C. ROGERS, 

Ai ting Commissioner. 
J. J. MOTT, Esq., 

Collector Internal Eevenne, Sttitesrille, aV. C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statesville, Januari/ 31, l-^TO. 

Sir : I have the honor to call your attention to the necessity for prom])t action ia 
the matter of the retention of the force of special deputies in my district, and the con- 
tinuance of the allowance for the " detection and jireventiou of frauds, &c." 

The operations of the special deputies duringthe past year, aided by the "allowance" 
heretofore made, have resulted, as may he seen by the repoi"ts rendered, from time tO' 
time, to your oftice, in suiipressiug, to a great extent, illicit distillation in this distiict,^ 
and in a great increase in the number of legally operated distilleries. 

On January 1, 187d, there were, on the records in this district, '22 grain distilleries 
in operation, and 20 grain distilleries under suspension and in charge of general store- 
keepers, being a total of 48. To-day these same records show 98 distilleries in opera- 
tion, and 18 in charge of general storekeepers, which, with 39 whose papers are ready, 
and who are awaiting qualilication of storekeepers for assignment, make a total of 
155 legal grain distilleries in the district ; an increase of 107 distilleries in the past 
year. This increase has been mainly since September, 1878, and, I think, most con- 
clusively demonstrates the value and effectual working of the special force in sup- 
pressing the illicit operations ; and, by constant and continual supervision, forcing, 
them to run regularly, or not at all. 

The partial Avithdrawal of the force, on January 1, made necessary by the want of 
funds, has become, to some extent, known, notwithstanding my efforts to " keep up 
appearances," and the bad effects are already felt. Those who have been "kej)t un- 
der " are already growing bolder and defiant ; and I am within the past two weeks 
in receipt of advices from sections of the district, from which I would conclude that 
if we once " let up" on these violators of the law, their lawlessness will be renewed,, 
l^robably with as much force and vigor as ever ; though they will not receive the aid 
and comfort, in the shape of public opinion, that has been afforded them heretofore. 

There is a strong feeling now, on the part of the better classes of society, in favor of 
enforcing the revenue laws ; and a large number of this class are now^ engaged iiL 
legal distillation, and prefer to be as long as the law is enforced, and gives them a 
fair chance in the trade. 

If this chance is not afforded, they cannot, of course, compete with the illicit deal- 
ers, and will naturally fall away again into the old channels ; for they will make 
whisky one way or the other. 

We will lose, in a short time, yearly all the good effect of what has been done in. 
the last twelve or fifteen months, if this force of deputies is withdrawn. 

I would earnestly recommend that every effort be made towards the reorganization 
of it, that it may continue its operations at as early a date as possible. 
Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, CoUedor. 

Hon. G. B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Internal Berenite, Washington , D. C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statesville, Ajrril 12, 1879. 

Sir: I have the honor to inform you that I am in receipt of a report from Deputy 
Collector Lillington, at Rutherfordton, informing me of the arrest and commitment to- 
jail of certain men for violations of the internal-revenue laws. On the night of the 
9th instant one Owens, a notorious outlaw, and a gang of armed men came into town 
to attack the jail and release the prisoners. They failed in their undertaking, but 
information is obtained that they will make further efforts. Deputy Lillington, 
assisted by some citizens, have been and are still guarding the jail. 

United States Commissioner Wilson was forced by Owens at his (Wilson's) house to 
take him (Owens) as surety on the bond, and to sign an order to the sheriff for the 
prisoners' release. Lillington, knowing the circumstances, opposed the order and pre- 



478 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

vented the escape. Wilson said " Jie knew the bond (?) was worthless, but he took it 
and gave the order in fear of his life." 

I have directed Lillington to employ force to guard the jail and arrest Owens. 
I have to request that j'ou authorize payment of all necessary expenditures to per- 
sons employed in this matter. 
Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 
Hon. G. B. Eaum, 

Commissioner of Internal Bevenue, Washington, D. C. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Alexandria, Va., April 18, 1879. 

Sir : I would respectfully commend to your favorable notice the services of most of 
the men who have been employed in the special service in the sixth North Carolina 
district. Although they were aware of the difficulties in the way of obtaining pay 
for their services during the months of January and February, they were ready at any 
time to respond to the call of the collector or myself, and often performed services 
which were disagreeable to themselves and endangered both person and property. 
For instance, to bear out my statement, I refer to the burning of A. M. Anderson's 
house on the lilst March, six miles from Eocky Creek, in Brushy Mountain, near Hunt- 
ing Creek post-office. He lives in a section which had been notorious for illicit dis- 
tilling, and has been both active and useful in breaking it up. The house was fired 
by an incendiary at night, during his absence, and believed to be instigated by illicit 
distillers. During the month of January, a man name! Yeague, in Alexander County, 
who had been active in the same way, was dragged from his house at night and 
severely beaten by six disguised men ; and B. F. Yedder, who has made himself obnox- 
ious to the illicit distillers in his section by working with Special Deputy Bryan since 
last December, was informed that a bullet fired at one Johnson while riding alone 
through th0 Brushy Mountain which cut his hat band, was intended for him. If they 
had not good reason to believe that the government would stand by its otficers who 
honestly and faithfully perform their duties, these things would occur more frequently. 
Very respectfully, W. H. CHAPMAN, 

H even lie Agent. 

Hon. Green B. Eaum, 

Commissioner of Internal Bevenue. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 
Collector's Office, Sixth District North Carolina, 

Statesville, Decemher 10, 1879. 
Sir : I have the honor to report receipt this day of a communication dated 8th in- 
stant, from Special Deputy A. C. Bryan, whereby I am informed of the burning of his 
barn, outbuildings, &c., and their contents (wagone, harness, grain, feed, &c.), and 
an attempt to burn the dwelling-house. 

Mr. Bryan is, and has been since the formation of the force, one of the most active 
and efficient of my "specials." I placed him in charge of the force, and he has con- 
tinued in the position, showing himself to be intelligent, sober, industrious, and worthy 
of my confidence. His operations (as have those of all the special force) have had the 
effect of gaining for him and them much notoriety among the " blockaders," and 
"threats of vengeance" have been freely made by them. 

The burning of Mr. Bryan's property is but the consummation of threats against him, 
and the act has been fixed upon two men who are being pursued and who may be 
captured. I quote from Bryan's letter : 

* * * " 1 fortunately came home last night, and there were two scoundrels came 
in the dead hours of the night and fired my barn and burned all my feed, buggy, har- 
ness, and everything there ; they also fired my dwelling, but I fortunately waked up 
and succeeded in saving my house. * * * I cut down their (referring to the incen- 
diaries) distillery last week, and this is for revenge." 

I desire to be informed whether there is any way by which Mr. Bryan can be repaid 
for his loss in his case, it being clearly caused by his strict performance of his duties 
as an officer in the internal-revenue service. 
Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, Collector. 
Hon. Green B. Eaum, • 

Commissioner of Internal Eevenue, Washington, D. C. 

Adjourned to meet in Morgantou, K C, on November 13, 1882. 



p 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 479 

Js'oTE. — This statement slioukl follow exhibit 8 on page 52. 



No. C, 715.J Treasury Department, 

Fifth Auditor's Office, 

May 12, 1873. 

I hereby certify that I have examined and adjusted an account be- 
tween the United States and J. J. Mott, collector for the sixth district 
of North Carolina, from October J, 1872, to December 31, 1872, for sal- 
ary, commissions, and expenses, and find him entitled to credit as fol- 
lows : 

By salary for said period, special allowauce dated August 16, 1872 $750 00 

By amount deposited during said period $82,492 00 

By commissions on $ , at 3 per cent 

By commissions on $ , at 1 iier cent 

By connnissions on $ , at ^ per cent 

By commissions on $ , at i per cent 

By commissions on $ , at i per cent., being amount of tax-paid stamps 

sold under act of July 20, 1868, as per books of coupons tiled with the 

revenue account for said period 

By •pecial allowance for office expenses 1, 325 00 

By stationery and blank books 

By j)ostage 33 50 

By express and depositing money 8 90 

Advertising 12 00 

2, 129 40 

I also find him chargeable as follows for amounts received from the 
collector acting as disbursing agent: 

For salary, for commissions: 

Special allowance in lieu of $1, 274 00 

Expenses of administering office for said period as reported on 
Form 63, filed herewith: 
Deputies, $1,295; clerks, $450; rent, $60; fuel, $12; lights, $3; 

advertisements, $ ; miscellaneous, $ . Total,$l,800. 

Balance due the collector 855 40 

$2, 129 40 

The said balance to be carried to the credit of the collector as dis- 
l)ursing agent on the books of the Register of the Treasury'. 

The accounts and vouchers are herewith transmitted for the decision 
of the Comptroller thereon. 

J. H. ELA, Auditor. 

To the First Comptroller of the Treasury. 

[1855.40.] Treasury Department, 

Comptroller's Office, 

June 2, 1873. 

I admit and certify that eight hundred and fifty-five and -j^.^ dollars 
are due and to be credited as stated in the above re])ort uncler bond 
dated March 5, 1872. 

E. W. TAYLOR, 

ComiJtroUer. 
To the Register of the Treasury. 

statement of differences. 

Balance per jiccount due collector $1, 330 40 

Balance found per adjustment due collector 855 40 

Ditfereuce to collector's debit 475 00 



480 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Explained thus: 

Expenses of office charged in account $1, 800 00 

Expenses of office, being limit of special allowance credited herein 1,325 00 



475 00 

Fifth Auditor's Office, , 

Mmj 12, 1873. ' 
Examined and stated by 

E. C. CLAEKE. 

Gomptroller's Office, 

June 2, 1873. 
Examined and reported by 

CHAS. G. BIGGS. 



Note. — This statement should follow Exhibit 11 on page 54. 

Xo. 7166.J Treasury Department, 

Fifth Auditor's Office, 

October 8, 1873. 
I hereby certify that I have examined and adjusted an account be- 
tween the United States and J. J. Mott, collector for the sixth district of 
North Carolina, from April 1, 1873, to June 30, 1873, for salary, com- 
missions, and expenses, and find him entitled to credit as follows : 

By salary for said period, special allowances August 16, 1872, and June 23, 

1873.. $750 00 

By amount deposited during said period $50, 049 37 

By commissions on $ , at 3 per cent 

By commissions on $ , at 1 per cent 

By commissions on $ , at i per cent 

By commissions on $ , at ^ per cent 

By commissions on $ , at i per cent., being amount of tax-paid stamps 

sold under act of July 20, 1868, as per books of coupons filed with the 

revenue account for said period 

By special allowance for expenses of office 1,769 23 

By stationery and blank books 

Bypostage 39 00 

By express and depositing money 15 59 

By advertising 79 25 

2.653 07 

I also find him chargeable as follows for amounts received from the 
collector acting as disbursing agent : 

For salary, for commissions : 

Special allowance in lieu of $2, 320 00 

* Expenses of administering office for said period as per form 6:3 
filed herewith : 

Deputies, $2,200; clerks, $6.50 ; rent, $60; fuel, $ ; lights, 

$ ; advertisements, $ ; miscellaneous, $ ; total, 

$2,910. . 
Balance due the collector .' .333 07 

$2,653 07 

The said balance to be carried to the credit of the collector as dis- 
bursing agent on the books of the Eegister of the Treasur3\ 

The accounts and vouchers are herewith transmitted for the decision 
of the Comptroller thereon. 

J. H. EL A, Auditor. 

To the First Comptroller of the Treasury. 

* Expenses of office are unnecessarily extravagant. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 481 

$333.07.] Treasury Department, 

Comptroller's Office, 

November 15, 1873. 

I admit and certify that a balance of three hundred and thirty-three 
and j^ dollars is due and to be credited as stated in the above report, 
under bond dated March 5, 1872. 

WM. HEMPHILL JONES, 

Acting Comptroller. 
To the Register of the Treasury. 

STATEMENT OF DIFFERENCES. 

Balance claimed per account dne collector $1, 488 84 

Balance found per adjuatmeut due collector 333 07 

Ditterence to collector's debit 1, 155 77 

Explained thus : 

Expenses of office chaifjed in account $2, 910 00 

Expenses of office credited herein, being limit of special allowance, which 
tbe collector has disregarded 1, 769 23 



1,140 77 
J. J. Stewart's bill advei-tising, suspended for locality of paper and rates of 

advertising; voucher returned to the collector 15 00 

1, 15i 77 



Examined and stated by 

Examined and reported by 
S. Mis. 116 31 



Fifth Auditor's Office, 

October 8, 1873. 

E. C. CLARKE. 

Comptroller's Office, 

November 15, 1873. 

CHAS. G. BIGGS. 



DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE. 



Senator Vance offers in evidence the following reports of special 
agents : 

EXHIBITS. 

No. 4355. 

[United States Internal Revenue Supervisor's OfiQce, district of Virf^inias, Carolinas 

Georgia, and Florida.] 

Raleigh, May 2, 1874. 

Hon. P. W. rERRY, 

SuperviHor Int. Rev., Kaleif/h, N. G. : 

Sir : I have tlie, honor to rei)ort, as the result of my attendance on the 
U. S. court at Statesville, that indictments were found against five 
(5) ex-gaugers for fraudulent charges in their i);iy accounts. Iiidi<;t- 
ments were also found against two tobacco manufacturers for remov- 
ing tobacco without payment of tax, and one for giving iusuflicient 
bond. 

Proceedings in rem were instituted against 3 tobacco factories and 
against one larm premises, used for ingress and egress to an illicit 
distillery. In addition to these 1 had bills against seven (7) individ- 
uals, presenred for trade in illicit tobacco and spirits, and all of these 
failed to be returned as true bills, because the witnesses swore falsely. 
1 also caused bills of indictment to be presented in twenty-five cases 
for illicit distilling, but was not able to ascertain how m.iny of these 
were returned as true bills. 

In this connection I will state that I ascertained that J. A. Clark, 
deputy collector and chief clerk for Colhictor Mott, made up all the 
false ganger's bills on which the indictments were found agaiust the 
five gangers mentioned in this report; that in no case where his signa- 
ture was attached to the jurat on ganger's bills had he a(;tually admin- 
istered the oath ; that in many cases where these fraudulent ganger's 
bills were sustained by false and forged vouchers the vouchers were 
written by this Clark, aiul in some instances the signatures forged by 
him, and that for the past year he has been one of the sureties on a 
distiller's bond. My proof of these facts was incontestable, ami I 
earnestly recommended the district attorney to move for his indict- 
ment, but he declined. 

1 also intended to present a bill against A. M. Rhyne, formerly store- 
keeper, for being interested in a distillery when assigned to the same 
distillery as U. S. store-keeper, but 1 ascertained that I should be able 
at next term of court to present him for illicit distillation, and concluded 
it was best to wait until next term and bring both charges at once. 
Very respectfully, your ob't serv't, 

^ ^ ' A. M. CRANE, 

Jiev. Agent. 



484 collection of inteenal eevenue in 

United States Internal Eevenue Supervisor's 

Office, District of Virginias, Carolinas, 

Georgia, and Florida, 
Baleigh, May 2d, 1874. 
Hon. P. W. Perry, 

Supervisor Int. Eev., Baleigh, N. C. : 
Sir : 1 have the honor to report, as the result of my attendance upon 
court at Greensboro', IS". 0., that indictments were found in twelve (12) 
cases for violation of internal-revenue laws. Proceedings in rent were 
begun against two (2) tobacco factories and. one wholesale liquor dealer's 
establishment. In addition to the foregoing, I was assisting in the pre- 
sentation of bills of indictment against some twenty (20) or twenty-five 
(25) persons in Randolph County, N. C, for illicit distilliug. Of all the 
bills of indictment found at this term of court fully one-half were the 
result, either directly or indirectly, of my exertions. 
Very respectfully, 

A. M. ORATnE, 
^. Rev. AgH. 



United States Internal Revenue Supervisor's 
, Office, District of Virginias, Carolinas, 

Georgia, and Florida, 
Baleigh, N. C, May 4, 1874. 
Hon. J. W. Douglass, 

Commissioner Int. Bevenue, Washington, D. G. : 
Sir: I inclose herewith for your information copies of two reports of 
Rev. Agent A. M. Crane in relation to the transactions of the U. S. 
court at Statesville and Greensboro', K. C. 
Very respectfully, your ob't servant, 

P. W. PERRY, 

Supervisor. 
T. W. B. 



No. 4933. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Grenshoro\ N. C, Sept. 5th,1878. 

Sir: I have the honor to report that I have for sometime past 
been engaged in an investigation of the acts of certain persons near 
Morgantown, in 6th district of JS". C, among them R. A. Cobb, 
U. S. store-keeper and ganger; D. C. Pearson, clerk Burke County 
superior court; Terrill Hudson, Hudson, Johnson & Co., and Huff- 
man & Co., distillers, all of whom are and have been engaged, sever- 
ally and in combination, to defraud the revenue in unlawfully removing 
spirits, refilling empty stamped casks, and reusing spirit stamps with 
the result of securing what appears to be conclusvie evidence of their 
guilt. Being about to leave this district, I have placed this evidence 
in the hands jointly of collector J. J. Mott and revenue agent Chap- 
man, to be used in seizing property and bringing the offenders to 
punishment. 

Collector Mott is very indignant at the conduct of store-keeper Cobb, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 485 

who has thus grossly betrayed his confidence, and is disposed to press 
the case against him and his associates. [ trust that he may be in- 
structed to cause his immediate removal from office, and that i)rose- 
cution be instituted against him, as he has been the leading spirit in 
the frauds, and that Mr. Chapman may be advised of the importance 
of immediate action in these cases. 
Very respectfully, 

JACOB WAGNER, 

Revenue Agent. 
Hon. Green B, Raum, 

Commissioner Int. Rev., Washington, D. C. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greensboro^ N. C, Aug. 20th, 1878. 
Sir: In answer to your letter of the 24th instant, initialed " W. H. 
H." and "E. M. T.," referring to an investigation of the charges against 
certain officers of the 6th dist., N. C, preferred by John Carpenter, I 
have the honor to state that the investigation has been progressing for 
some time past, and that I visited John Carpenter at his house at 
Knob Creek last week. As speedily as possible the investigation will 
be completed and the report forwarded. 
Very respectfully, ^ 

JACOB WAGNER, 

Revenue Agent. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner. 



No. 8552. 



Treasury Department, 

Office op Internal Revenue, 

Washington, July 28, 187t). 
W. H. Chapman, Esq., 

Revenue Agent, Statesville, N. C. 
Sir : Information has been received at this office that at or near the 
village of Dallas, Gaston Co., N. C, legal distilleries are being con- 
ducted on what is known as the mutual benefit plan — that is, store- 
keepers, in order to procure assignments, start new distilleries and keep 
them running, dividing their salaries with the owners of the distilleries, 
and that men are to be found there who have two or three distilleries 
running within short distances of. each other on this principle. It is 
also alleged that the low price at which the spirits of such distilleries 
are sold prevents honest dealers from competing, thus raising a presump- 
tion of fraud on the part of both distiller and officer. 

These allegations, if true, involve a serious abuse in the ])ublic serv- 
ice, and you are directed to make immediately a thorough utid ener- 
getic investigation of the whole subject and report the result to this 
office. 

Respectfully, 

GREEN B. RAT:M, 

Comntiss loner. 



486 collection of internal revenue in 

United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office District of South Carolina, 

Dallas, K a, Aug. Sth, 1879. 
Hon. Green B. Eaum, 

Commissioner of Int. Revenue. 
Sir : I have the honor to submit the following report of my investi- 
gations in. accordance with your instructions contained in oftice letter! 
dated the 28th ulto., initialed "C. W. E." and "M. M. B." I reached' 
this connty (Gaston) on the 31st ult., and have traveled over the greater 
part of it, as well as parts of Cleveland, Lincoln, and Mecklenburg 
Counties, visiting distilleries, U. S. store-keepers, and gaugers, and 
others in pursuing the investigations I am instructed to make. To 
enable you more fully to understand the condition of things, it will be 
necessary to refer briefly to the causes which led to the establishing 
of so many legal distilleries in this dist. As a means of preventing the 
illicit production of spirits in the collection districts of S. C. and 6th 
IIT. C, Collectors Brayton and Mott and myself were instructed to en- 
courage the establishing of legal distilleries, and as the people of the 
districts had been encouraged by democratic politicians in their belief 
that the revenue laws were made in the interests of the rich man alone, 
and that the government meant to oppress them, the most liberal inter- 
pretation of the law was allowed them in the construction and running 
of their distilleries. About four bus. per day was fixed upon as the 
minimum capacity upon which a distillery would be allowed to run. It 
was allowed by Collector Mott, and I think by Collector Brayton, too, 
that the distiller, among others, might recommend a man in good stand- 
ing in his community, who could give the required bond, and he would 
recommend his appointment as store-keeper and ganger and have him 
assigned to his distillery. The endorsement of the applicant by the best 
people in his neighborhood and the bond of $20,000 which was required 
was thought to be good security, though it was apprehended at the time 
that this privilege might be abused, but the collector concluded it was 
best to get them started, and correct the abuse afterwards if it did 
occur. The natural advantages which this section of country affords, the 
education of the people to the business, the encouragement offered by 
the department, together with the vigilance of the special deputies and 
other revenue officers in breaking up illicit distilleries caused the es- 
tablishing of many legal distilleries all over this district, and some in 
S. C. Soon a stock of whisky began to accumulate on the hands of 
the distillers, many of whom were unable to hold and unwilling to sell 
at the prices offered them by the w. 1. d's, consequently began to 
look out for other modes of making sales. They obtained retail license, 
and sell directly to consumers or any one else, in quantities less than 
five gallons, at the same price, and sometimes less than they ask for the 
same article in stamped casks. They have undersold the wholesale 
dealers and consequently injured their business, causing considerable 
jealousy on their part; having ample K. E.. facilities in Gaston Co., 
they have sent it in every direction. Various reports were put in cir- 
culation as to the reasons why distillers could afford to sell at their 
prices, from $1.30 down to as low as $1 per gal., in some instances, 
when they were required to pay the 90-ct. tax. It was first reported 
that they obtained whisky directl}^ from illicit distilleries and refilled 
their stamped barrels ; that report could not be sustained because the 
illicit distilleries could not be found in that section. It was then cir- 
culated that the store-keepers were allowing their distilleries to keep 
excess of 2 gals, made from every bushel of grain. This report was 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA- 487 

without foundation, as the excess which they could possibly make 
would not have supiilied the tenth part of the amount sold, and be- 
sides would have involved one-half of the store-keepers in the dis- 
trict, many of whom are men of irreproachable character. The next 
report circulated was that the store-keepers were dividing their pay 
with the distillers in order to get assignments, which enabled the 
distiller to put his whisky upon the market at a lower price than 
the honest dealer could afford. When these reports started, the 
collector assigned Dep'y Jewett to the division composed of Gaston 
and Cleveland Co's, with instructions to make thorough investigations 
into these alleged Aiolations and abuses, and refused himself to recom- 
mend the appointment or assignment of any man asked for by a distil- 
ler. 1 have made a thorough investigation of this matter, and have 
concluded that while there is no positive evidence that any store-keeper 
has divided his pay with the distiller, there are circumstances which 
warrant the presumption that some of the store-keepers, in order to se- 
cure an assignment did enter into an arrangement of some kind with 
the distiller, but when the time came to divide the store-keeper declined. 
Where the contracts were carried out, if any were, we have no means 
of getting the evidence. If they were not carried out the evidence that 
they existed is only circumstantial. I think that much circulation has 
been given to the report by some of the distillers saying publicly that 
they would not run unless they had a st'k. & g. who would divide. J. 
W. Beaty, owner of distillery No. 1290, suspended about the 1st of June, 
declaring he would not run unless the store-keeper would give him part 
of his wages. In about ten days he resumed operations with the same 
store-keeper. Dep. Col. Jewett went to the distillery to investigate, 
when another suspension took place for one week, then commenced 
again, and is in oi)eration now. The impression was created with the 
neighborhood that the st'k. & g. had acceded to the distiller's terms al- 
though both deny it. I visited the distillery on the 6th inst. but Store- 
keeper A. R. Abernathey was sick, and found W. R. Raukins acting for 
him. J. J. Biggerstaff, who owns distillery ISTo. 1367, told Store-keeper 
L. C. Ford, when he went to take charge of his distillery, alter 
being assigned there, that two store-keepers, G. W. McLaughn and 
J. K. Lewis, had been to see him about starting his distillery and 
had offered to divide their pay, and that he must do the same, as it 
was customary. Ford, being a new^ man, replied that he was not 
awaie of that, but would inquire about it and do what was custom- 
ary. He went to G. W. McKee, U. S. st'k. & g., who told him that it 
was illegal and not customary, and that he could not subscribe to the 
oath on his pay account if he did that. Ford went back to the distil- 
lery, and is there yet. Lewis and McLaughn both deny that they ever 
made any proposition to him, and Lewis says he nuide the same asser- 
tion to him concerning MeLaughn. The presumption is that the dis- 
tiller supposed the store-keeper would accede to his demand without 
objecting. John A. Keener, st'k. & g., makes a statement that P. M. 
Carpenter, owner of distillery No. 1320, susi)ended his distillery while 
he was store-keeper for him, because he, Keener, refused to carry out 
an airangement which Carpenter says was made between himself and 
John Rutledge, Keener's predecessor. Said arrangement was that he 
was to ask for Rutledge assignment to his distillery, and that Rutledge 
agreed to give him S2 per day after the first two months. Rutledge 
was assigned to R. M. Jenkins and Co., distillery No. 1210, and Keener 
assigned from Jenkins to Cari)enter's. At the expiration of a mont;h 
Carpenter suspended, and Keener thinks his refusal to comply with his 



488 COLLECTION OF IN TEEN AL KE VENUE IN 

demand was the reason. Rutledge denies that any such agreement 
was ever made between himself and Carpenter, and Carpenter will 
neither admit nor deny that he did. I have a list of names which I will 
refer to the collector, recommending a change of their assignments. 
Indeed, a general change of assignments in the dist. would no doubt 
have a wholesome effect. 
Very respectfully, 

W. H. CHAPMAi^, 

Revenue Agent. 



Confidential.] Wilkesboro', K C, Qth Dist, Bee. 29th, 1879. 

Hon. John Shekman : 

I wrote you some time since, under the signature of' James Johnson, 
concerning some revenue frauds that are being practiced on the gov- 
ernment by officers and distillers of this district, but as yet no action 
has been taken by the government. 

Some time since a raiding party came into our county and seized 380 
gall, of black whisky, the property of Riddle, Parker and Saunders. 
Their neighbors say the whisky was made in their government dis- 
tillery while under suspension, with over two thousand gallons of 
whisky in the warehouse. 

Theophilus Smith was on duty at said distillery as U. S, store-keeper 
at the time. This seems to be a glaring fact, but I have heard nothing 
of said store-keeper being discharged trom service. 

There are frauds being prepetrated on the gov. in every conceivable 
manner, and I Avill never cease to expose them until J. J. Mott and his 
gang are thrown out of office. If I can get no assistance from gov. 
officials I will appeal to Congress. 

These Democratic vultures shall not eat out the vitals of the gov't, 
and threaten to tyrannize over Eepublicaus who dare oppose them. If 
you will send Mr. Kellogg to Wilkesboro' to remain a weelc, there will 
be witnesses pointed out to him who will testify that IT. S. store-keep- 
ers have assisted in removing whisky from the cistern room to the 
private dwellings of the distillers. 

I think Kellogg must be all right from the way Mott had his deputies 
cutting down the tubs of the gov. distillers when he learned he was to 
take the place of Col, Chapman. Capt. J. S. Pedeu, dept. coll., was 
at work in this county for a week before Kellogg came, had all of them 
right when he arrived, but had taken them do vvn from 1() to 20 inches. 

Send Kellogg to J. E. Henderson's, 2 miles from Wilkesboro', & 1 think 
he can get some valuable information ; they tried to ruin him because 
he threatened to report some of them. I will meet him there. Send a 
copy of this letter to Kellogg, and the Commissioner. 
Yours, truly, 

JAMES JOHNSOISr. 

Treasury Department, 

December 19, 1879. 
EespectfuUy referred to the Commissioner of Internal Eevenue. 

J. K. UPTON, 

Chief Cleric.. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 48^ 

No. 1821. 

United States Internal Revenue, 

Charlotte, N. (7., Jan. 7, 1880. 
Hon. Green B. Kaum, 

Commissioner, Washington, D. C. : 

Sir : In compliance with your letter of Dec. 22d, F. D. S. (containing- 
copy of a letter purporting to have been written by James Mason, com- 
plaining of frauds in the 6th dist., N. C), and directing me to investi- 
gate the matters complained of, I have the honor to submit the follow- 
ing report : 

1 visited the house of J. R. Henderson, as requested in the letter, and 
found that James Mason and J. R. Henderson were one and the same 
person ; that all the letters written and signed "James Mason" were 
written by J. R. Henderson. He reiterated all the charges made in hia 
letters against Collector Mott, and his officers, but absolutely refused 
to appear as a witness against them, nor could he give the names of 
any reliable witnesses as to the charges lie makes. The only course he 
could suggest was to subpoena certain parties before the grand jury, 
and he thought they would substantiate what he said. The names of 
all the parties he suggested, with one or two excei)tions, are old offend- 
ers of the revenue laws. I find, also, that Henderson has been indicted 
for illicit stilling, and has taken the benefit of the "Amnesty proclam- 
ation." I learn, also, that he has been an applicant for au office under 
Coll'r Mott for a long time. So much for Henderson. 

As to the charges he makes, I have no doubt that some of them are 
true. As to the charge that store-keei)ers are dividing their salaries- 
with distillers, I could only learn that such things were charged in a 
general way; but no specific case coidd be cited. This is a difficult 
thing to ascertain, as both distiller and store-keeper would deny it. 

As to the charge that the majority of Collector Mott's officers are 
Democrats, I find upon investigation that about one-fourth of his offi- 
cers were Democrats when api)ointed. The reason of making these 
appointments Coll'r Mott gives is, that it is difficult to find lvei)ublicans. 
that are qualified. This may be the case in some instances, but I think 
they are rare. I have my doubts as to the propriety of appointing 
Democrats, for I do not find them as attentive to their duties as the 
Republican officers are. 

As to the charges that Collector Mott is in collusion with violators of 
the revenue law, or allows violations to go unnoticed, 1 see nothing to 
warrant such a conclusion. 

Mr. Henderson certainly has not a very great regard for the sup]>res- 
sion of frauds, as he distinctly stated to me that he did not think it 
wrong to ruu an illicit distillery, and that he would not inform against 
any man for violations of the revenue laws. His Jight ai)]»ears to be 
more against Collector Mott and his officers than any desire that the 
laws should be sustained. 

While I am convinced that in some instances store keepers have been 
guilty of neglect of duty, and have allowed distillers to defraud the 
government, I do not think Collector Mott would desire to shield them 
from punishment. 

Respectfully submitted. 

HORACE KELLOGG, 

Revenue Agents 



490 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

No. 9584. 

United States Internal Eevenue, 

Greensboro\ iV. C, December 17, 1880. 
Hon. Green B. Eaum, 

Commissioner of Inter7ial Revenue^ Washington^ D. G. : 

Sir : Referring to your letter of Nov. 22nd, initialed " F. D. S." & 
" W. T. C," in regard to the excessive cost of collecting the tax on dis- 
tilled spirits in this section, and inquiring if intelligent men, such as 
a.re in every respect qualified to discharge the duties incumbent upon 
store-keepers and gangers cannot be obtained at a salary of three dol- 
lars per day ; also asking for information respecting the truthfulness 
of reports made to your office to the effect that some store-keepers & 
gangers in the 6th dist. E". C. divide their pay with the distillers, or 
are directly or indirectly interested in the distilleries to which tliey are 
■assigned to duty : 

In reply, I have the honor to state that to make a satisfactory report 
upon the subjects above referred to I would require a much longer time 
than I could feel justified in delaying an answer to your letter. Since 
the receipt of your letter I have made inquiry in regard to the charges 
against store-keepers and gangers, but have been unable t© obtain any 
proof sustaining said charges; yet I am inclined to believe there is 
some truth in the charges made against said officers, not ojily applicable 
to officers in the 6th dist., but in this and other southern districts. You 
are probably aware that in starting registered distilleries in this section 
the collectors and their subordinates in many cases had to use con- 
siderable persuasion to satisfy the distillers that their object in getting 
to operate registered distilleries was not for the purposeof getting them 
in trouble with the government, for at the time many of the distillers 
had this idea. For the purpose of inspiring confidence in the distillers 
no doubt their friends or persons in whom the distillers had confidence 
have been recommended for the position of store-keeper and ganger, and 
assigned to duty, as per request of distiller. 

In many cases store-keepers and gangers board with the distillers, 
and it is said that these officers pay one-half their salary for board, when 
other people not interested in the distillery business would board them 
for ten dollars a month. All these distilleries are very small, and can 
be closed with little or no loss to the distiller, thus stopping the pay of 
the store-keeper and ganger, so that in a country like this, where so 
many of such officers are employed, I should not be surprised to find 
some who would comply with the wishes or demands of the distillers in 
order to draw pay from the government. I hear of an ex-store-keeper 
and ganger, formerly of the 4th dist. JS". C, who says he managed to 
draw his pay as store-keeper and ganger by furnishing the distiller four 
bushels of corn-meal per day, the amount of grain required to run the 
distillery. The starting of two registered distilleries only a few feet 
apart, both owned by the same person, where one wonld answer all pur- 
poses, so far as capacity is concerned, looks to me as if the distiller found 
two store-keepers and gangers more profitable than one, but, as before 
stated, the facts in these cases are hard to get at. Revenue Agent Kel- 
logg informs me that while on duty in this State some months ago he 
endeavored to procure evidence against some of the store-keepers and 
gangers suspected of dividing their pay with the distillers, but was un- 
able to do so. 

In regard to reducing the pay of store-keepers and gangers in these 
districts to three dollars per day, I have to say that in my opinion just 
as good men as those now employed can be secured at that figure, and 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 491 

• 
few, if any, of the foic«i now eiiii)lo.ve<l would be tenii)ted to resign sboakl 
their pay be re<luce(l to three dollars per day, but I am not prepared to 
say that it would be to the best interests of the serviee to reduce their 
pay to that figure. I think, however, that it would be well to start 
store-keepers and j;augers in this section at three dollars i)er day, and in- 
crease their pay as their servi(;es increased in value to the jLjovernment. 

I believe that considerable s])irits i)roduced at register(;d distilleries in 
these districts is removed without payment of tax, and that if it were 
possible to look after these distilleries one-half as sharply as distilleries 
in other sections of the country are looked after, [believe the increased 
amount of spirits returned for taxation would do more to reduce the cost 
of collection than reducing the pay of officers would accomplish. 

The position of store-keei)er and ganger at a distillery running four 
bushels a day, located in out of-the-way places, as most of these distille- 
ries are, is a dull business, and the chances of a visit from an agent are 
so slim that it is not suri)rising that these officers go off and leave their 
distilleries while in operation, as 1 am informed and believe is fre- 
quently the case. 

It is impossible for the agent in charge of a division like this to visit 
distilleries often and attcMid to the many other duties assigned him. I 
think the agent of this dixision onght to have two or three competent 
gangers assigned to special <luty under him, who should be kept visit- 
ing and examining registered distilleries and inspecting the officers at 
distilleries. 

The deputy collectors, in some cases, have more distilleries in their 
divisions than they can i)ro|)erly attend to. 

In my oi)inion, one visit from an agent or officer on si^ecial duty un- 
der him will do more good than several visits from the local officer. 

I l>elieve it is conceded by all jjersons liaving a knowledge of the dis- 
tillery business here, that the visits of the special force of agents and 
gangers who examined the distilleries in this State some months ago 
had an excellent effect on both officers and distillers. 

I think the assignments of store-keepers and gangers. ought to be 
changed occasionally, and tliat if these officers and their work could be 
inspected, and the distilleries examined frequently, great good would 
result to the government. 

Regretting my inability to give you at this time more definite informa- 
tion on the subjects referred to in your letter, 
I am, very respectfully, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 

[Note appended to this report iu lead pencil.] 

" Gen'I Clark : See remarks of Brooks on p. 7 in re' to transfer of 
storekeeper. I think it would be a good plan to make Mott do so. 

"F. D. S." 



^o. 681. 

United States Internal Revenue, 

Greemboro\ N'. C, Jan. 3, 1881. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Internal Revenue^ Washington, I). C. : 
Sir : I have the honor to report that I have in my possession several 
affidavits of officers iu the Gth dist. in this State, charging Collector 



492 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Mott with uulawfally withholding certain moneys due them for service 
performed the government, etc. Some of these afiSdavits have been in 
my possession several weeks. I have not investigated them for two 
reasons: First, for the reason that my time has been so fully occupied 
with other and more important business ; second, for the reason that 
when I have been able to spare a day Collector Mott has been absent. 
In my opinion Collector Mott should have an opportunity- of meeting 
the parties who have made these affidavits before same are forwarded, 
and I have been waiting for an opportunity of investigating the case 
this way. 

It will probably be two or three weeks before I can take the matter 
up. I understand now that Collector Mott has resigned. If this be 
true, I would respectfully request to be informed what, if any, action 
you desire me to take in regard to these affidavits. 
Very respectfully, 

A. H. BEOOKS, 

Be venue Agent. 



No. 682. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greensboro', N'. C, Jan. 3, 1881. 
Hon. Green B. Eaum, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, D. G. : 
Sir : Referring to our conversation some time ago in regard to work 
in the 6th dist., N. C, I regret to have to report that on account of the 
pressure of very important matters requiring immediate attention, I 
have been obliged to neglect that district for some time. When I as- 
sumed charge of this division I assigned Revenue Agent McLeer and 
Mr. Crawford to duty in that district. They operated in the dist. 
eighteen days, most of the time in the vicinity of Statcsville. The 
frauds they unearthed during their brief stay showed the importance 
of the work to be done in that district. On account of liaving to at- 
tend court in New York City the forepart of November, on tlie 5th of 
that month, I was obliged to turn the Tatum case over to them, which 
fully occupied their time for over a month in the dist. of S. C, and the 
4th dist., N. C. My time has been, so far, fully occuiiied night and day 
with matters of the utmost importance, and I now have enough im])ortant 
work on hand (which must be attended to in order that the government 
interests may not suffer in the courts) to last me three months. 1 
realize the fact that there is no district in the country that stands 
so much in need of a thorough overhauling as the 6th district of this 
State. There is work enough in that district for two agents and all 
the assistance they can get, for it must be remembered that so long as 
Mr. Coite remains as chief deputy of that district agents need not ex- 
pect that assistance from the local officers that thej^ receive in the other 
districts in this State, for the simple reason that they are aware that to 
give an agent information regarding frauds or irregularities in the dis- 
trict will incur the displeasure of Mr. Coite, and may result to their 
pecuniary injury. I know of instances recently where officers have 
incurred Mr. Coite's displeasure by talking to me about matters in the 
district, for the reason, as Mr. Coite puts it, he did not want Brooks to 
find out everything that was going on in the district. Mr, Coite is 
noted for making excuses for frauds and irregularities discovered in 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF AORTH CAROLINA, 493 

the district instead of trying to correct abuses ; for instance, in the 
recent case of W. A. Daniels, distiller, who received the key of Freeze's 
warehouse from the collector's ottice, gutted the warehouse of 19 bbls. 
of spirits, then returned the keys to the office. Mr. Coite told nie he 
could not see anything i>articularly wrong in giving Mr. Daniels 
Freeze's warehouse key, as Mr, Daniels had always been regarded as a 
very reputable citizen in the conununity, while the facts are that Mr. 
Daniels has the reputation of being one of the worst whisky thieves 
in the district. It was in Mr. Ooite's fertile brain the scheme of send- 
ing out a circular assessing the numerous oflBcers of the dist. 1 % a 
month of their salary for incidental expenses of the office originated. 
Mr, Coite is always complaining of being overworked, and finding fault 
-with the department for requiring so much of him, while tlie facts are 
that Mr. Coite has so much private business outside of the office that 
it is seldom he can be found at the office when he is w^anted, more es- 
pecially when he is not exjjecting a call* from an agent. 

There is not a district in the State so backward about furnishing in- 
formation as the Gth, for which fact, in my opinion, Mr. Coite is respon- 
sible. Important information which can be obtained from other dis- 
tricts in this State in a few hours by telegraph takes weeks to get from 
the 6th district, greatly to the detriment of the government's interests. 
To illustrate, on Dec. 10, '81, there was seized in this district 3 wagons 
containing 13 p'k'gs of illicit brandy; 3 of the p'k'g's, bore the stamps, 
marks, and brands of the distilleries in the Gth dist., two from one dis- 
tiller and one from another. The last-named p'k'g. was tax paid in 
April, 1881, the two p'k'g's tax paid in Sept., 1881, and originally con- 
tained corn ivhiaky. On the day of the seizure I wrote Collector Mott, 
giving names of distillers, serial Nos. of casks and of warehouse and 
tax-paid stamps, name of the store-keeper and gauger and date of tax- 
paid stamps, requesting to know to whom the distiller disposed of 
these packages. On Dec. 22nd, not having rec'd an answer, I wrote Col- 
lector Mott again asking him to send me the information called for in 
my letter of the 10th inst. Under date of Dec, 23d, he sent me the in- 
formation in regard to the two p'k'g's tax paid in Sept. '81, but as yet 
I have not received the information in regard to the one p'k'g tax paid 
in April, 1881. I am awaiting similar information asked for Dec. 24 in re- 
gard to 4 packages seized in Welche's smoke-house, this dist. The in- 
formation regarding the 3 packages found at the same place with the 4 
packages bearing stamps, marks, and brands of a distiller inthe5th dist., 
was received by telegraph and return mail. From reliable information 
received from several sources, I am satisfied of the very large amount 
of ilhcit spirits which has been hauled south recently, including the 
large seizures made in this district. The most of it is manufactured in 
the 6th dist., and the parties engaged in the illicit traffic use any 
stamped packages they can get hold of. Thus, it is of the utmost im- 
portance that transcripts of distillers' form 52 should be promptly filed 
in order that such information as I am asking for could always be given 
promptly. I think Mr. Coite should be held responsible for these de- 
lays. Mr, Coite has been a drawback to the 6tli dist. for years, as 
can be shown by the agents who have been assigned to duty in that 
dist. In my judgment, Mr. Coite ought to be removed from the posi- 
tion of chief deputy. If he must be kept in the service, I would rec- 
ommend that he be assigned to a division in the most distant portion 
of the district. With a good chief deputy who will devote all of his 
time to his official duties and encourage all officers of the district in 
attending to their duties and in protecting the government interests, 



494 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

a man whom the agents could trust and feel assured of his hearty co- 
operation, I am sure the revenues of this district would be greatly in- 
creased. It seems to me, that with the immense number of officers 
that are employed in the district, working in harmony and in the inter- 
ests of the government, that the frauds now practiced would be pre- 
vented, and there would be no necessity for the continual presence of 
revenue agents in the district. 

I am now engaged on what I consider some of the most important 
cases ever started in this State, the success of which will have a most 
wholesome effect, and I am confident of success. The 6th dist. is very 
inaccessible, and I cannot begin to give it the attention it requires 
without neglecting very important cases. 

I would therefore respectfully suggest that for the present, the 6th 
dist. be made one division and at least two revenue agents be assigned 
to the same, with all the assistance they need. J think if two agents 
with about 12 gangers, were assigned to special duty for three months 
in the dist., that much good would be accomplished. 
Verv respectfully, 

A. H. BEOOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 



1^0. 40. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greensboro', N'. C, Feb. 6, 1881. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Int. Revenue, WasJdngton, J). C. 

Sir: In reply to office letter of 20th Jan'y, 1881 ("T. M. 0." & " L. 
S. E."), directing me to find out to what particular duty James H. Har- 
ris, special deputy in the 6th district of Xorth Carolina, at $125 per 
month, is assigned, and to report upon his character, qualifications for 
the service, and the work performed by him during the time he has been 
under commission, I have the honor to state that an investigation of 
the case shows that the duty to which Mr. Harris is assigned is to circulate- 
around among the colored people, and gather what information he can 
as to parties engaged in illegal traffic in spirits and tobacco in that 
district. 

As to his character, I am hardl.y competent to judge from my own 
knowledge, having met him only once, but from what information I have 
been able to gather, I should consider it reputable. 

As to his qualification for that service, I see no reason why he is not 
qualified, but I tiiink very little can be accomplished in that way. My 
experience has been that very little can be accomplished by this methods 
It soon comes to be understood or suspected what such a person's busi- 
ness is, and very little information will be imparted. 

In the case of Mr. Harris, I find that the colored people generally 
understand his business, and they will give him no information. 

As to the work performed by him, there is no record in the collector's 
office showing that he has accomplished anything during the seven 
months he has been on this duty. 

I learn that much of his time has been spent out of his district. 

I consider him of no use to the service in his present capacity. 
Very respectfully, 

HOEACE KELLOGG, 

Revenue Agent.. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 495 

No. 772. 

United States Internal Revenue, 

StatesvUle, N. C, March tiUt, 1880. 
Sir : I have the honor to report that yesterday, accompanied by Rev- 
enue Ao-ent Harrison, I examined tlie bonded warehouse of John W. 
Clark's distilkuy, No. 175(>, Iredell county, 0th district N. C. This 
distillery accordinj,^ to the records in the collector's office, susi)ended 
operations June Gth, 1881, and at that time had twenty-two (22) pack- 
aces in the warehouse, containin^^ nine hundred and htty-three (9,jc5) 
gallons of whisky. On October 31st, 1881, fourteen (14) packaj,^es, con- 
taining six hundred and twenty-one (621) gallons was withdrawn by W. 
B Mott, general store-keeper and gauger in charge of the warehouse, 
leaving, according to the collector's records, eight (8) packages, contain- 
ing three hundred and thirty-two (332) gallons of whisky in the 

warehouse. , . i • • i 

When we went to the collector's office yesterday morning and inquired 
for W B. Mott, general store-keeper & gauger, he could not be touud. 
I then told Mr. Coite, chief deputy in charge the distillery I wished to 
visit and asked him if the key of the warehouse was in the office. After 
making some inquirv he said no ; that the general store-keeper in charge 
of that warehouse must have it. Mr. Coite then sent General Store- 
keeper & Gauger E. B. Brake with us to the distillery with instruc- 
tions, if necessary, to break oft' the lock then on the warehouse and re- 
place it when we got through our examinations with a new lock, which 
he gave him for that purpose. When we arrived at the distillery we 
found the warehouse locked and noway of getting into it except through 
the door. After considerable trouble we eftected an entrance by re- 
moving one of the staplesholding the lock, and upon examination found 
the eight (8) packages remaining in the warehouse all empty. J here 
was not even a drop of whiskey in one of them. They were dry and 
had apparently been empty for some time. They all had the warehouse 
stami3 on, and were marked and branded as follows : 

Serial No 37. W. H. S. 1181095. J. C. Setzer. store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected March 4th, 1881. Troof 100. 46 gallons "corn 

whiskev " 

Serial No. 33. W. H. S. 1181091. J. C. Setzer, store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected December 5th, 1881. Proof 100. 44 gallons " corn 

^ Serffl' No 53. W. H. S. 1181711. J. C. Setzer, store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected June 6th, 1881. Proof 100. 44 gallons " corn 

^ Serial* No 35. W. H. S. 1181693. J. C. Setzer, store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected February 24th, 1881. Proof 100. 43 gallons " corn 

^ Serial* No 6. W. H. S. 11816h'4. J. C. Setzer, store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected June 15th, 1880. Proof 100. 43 gallons "corn 

^ Serfa^l No 5 W. H. S. 879278. W. C. Morrison, store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected June 9th, 1880. Proof 100. 39 gallons " corn 

^"^ sSl' No. 52. W. H. S. 1181710. J. C. Setzer, store-keeper & 
gauger. Inspected May 31st, 1881. Proof 100. 27 gallons "corn- 

"^SeriSl'No. 55. W. H. S. 1181694. J. C. Setzer, store-keeper & 



496 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

gauger. Inspected February 28th, 1881. Proof 100. 45 gallons ^' corn 
whiskey." 

When I asked Mr. Clark, who was present, how the packages became 
«uipty he at first said he did not know, but upon being more 
•closely questioned lie said they must have leaked. 1 told him that 
that explanation would not do, as the packages were all iron-hooped 
and much better barrels than are generally used by distillers in this 
section of the country, he then said that part of the whiskey out of these 
eight (8) packages had been taken to fill up the fifteen fl5) packages 
withdrawn from the warehouse last fall (I suppose he meant the four- 
teen (14) packages withdrawn last October), and that he had been in the 
habit of getting whiskey out of the warehouse for himself and friends 
when he wanted it. I asked him if he had the key of the warehouse, or 
if not, how he got in. He denied having the key himself, but said J. C. 
Setzer, the store-keeper & ganger had it, and"^ that when he (Clark) 
wanted any whiskey for himself or friends he would tell Setzer, who 
would open the warehouse and give him what whiskey he wanted. 
Clark said the whiskey was taken away from the warehouse in demi- 
johns. I then asked him if J. C. Setzer, the storekeeper, who was on 
duty at the distillery at the time of the suspension in June, did not re- 
turn the warehouse key to the collector's office w^ben the distillery shut 
down. Clark said that Setzer did return the key to the office at that 
time, but got it shortly afterwards to look at the whiskey, and then kept 
it. Clark said that Setzer let him have whiskey from the warehouse, 
both before and after the distillery suspendeti operations. Clark said 
the last whiskey tax paid by him was withdrawn by the general store- 
keeper, Walter B. Mott. He said that shortly after Mr.'Mott came to 
the Avarehouse he (Clark) asked him to take a ride to Troutmau's station 
(4 miles away) with him to get some tacks and varnish, and that while 
they were away J. C. Setzer, the old store-keeper & ganger, did the 
work. Clark said Mott and he were gone a couple of hours^ This con- 
versation was in the presence of revenue agent Harrison and Mr. Drake. 

After leaving the distillery we went to Mr. Setzer's house, w^hich is 
•close by, to see him, but I have been since told that he kept out of our 
way. 

The records in the collector's office, kept by C. J. Colyer, clerk in 
charge of the locks and keys, show that the warehouse key of this dis- 
tillery was returned to the office by J. C. Setzer, store-keeper and ganger, 
July 1st, 1881, and that it was given back to him July 11th. 

It appears to be a matter of very little consequence in this district 
whether, when a distiller}^ suspends operations with whiskey in the 
warehouse, the store-keeper returns the key to the office or not. I had 
an occasion, in an investigation made by me last fall in this district 
of a distillery under suspension with whiskey in the warehouse to show 
that the distiller had the key, and that while he had it the ware- 
house w^as robbed of whiskey, barrels and all. This case differs some- 
what from that, however, for here a store-Tceeper has the key, who con- 
nives with the distiller to rob the warehouse of the whiskey, but leave 
the barrels. 

I have not yet been able to see either Store-keeper Mott or Setzer. 
Mr. Coite, chief deputy in charge, told me he had sent for them, and 
expects them back at the office on Thursday. 

I have requested Mr. Coite, chief deputy in charge, to seize what prop- 
erty still remains at the distillery and make an assessment against 
Clark for the tax on the stolen whiskey. I will report further after I 
have an interview with the store-keepers. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 497 

I hiive sent a cop}' of this report to revenue agent Brooks at Greens- 
boro', N. C. 

Very respectfully, 

EDWARD McLEER, 

Revenue Agent. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Internal Revenue^ Washiuf/ton, D. C. 



No. 773. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Htatesville, N. C, March 14, 1882. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Int. Revenue, Washington, J). C. 

Sir : Referring to my report of the 21st inst., in reference to Jno. W. 
Clark's distillery, No. 1750, Gtli dist. N. C, I have the honor to further 
report that on yesterday Walter B. Mott, gen'l store-keeper and ganger, 
called upon me and made the following explanation about the ware- 
liouse key not being in his possession. 

Mr. Mott said that when he was appointed gen'l store-keeper and 
ganger, he called at the collector's ofhce and received the keys to the 
warehouse in his division, but he did not remember whether he had the 
key to the warehouse of Clark's distillery at the time of last withdrawal 
of spirits or not, but said that the store-keeper and ganger, J. C. Setzer, 
did all of the work of attaching stamps, marking barrels, etc., when the 
fourteen packages were withdrawn, and that while Setzer was doing it he 
and Mr. Clark, the distiller, drove to Troutman's station and back, being 
absent about two hours. That on their return Mr. Setzer had all the 
packages to be tax paid ready for removal, that he did not examine 
balance of packages remaining in the warehouse, neither did he exam- 
ine the fourteen packages tax paid so as to ascertain contents of same; 
that on leaving the warehouse he handed the key to Seltzer and asked 
him to return same to the office. 

The real facts are, as developed by investigation, that the gen'l 
store-keeper and ganger, Walter B. Mott, never had the key in his 
possession; that the old store-keeper J. C. Setzer, got it from the office 
July nth,, and still has it for aught that either W. B. Mott or the col- 
lector's office know about it. 
Very respectfully, 

EDWARD McLEER, 

Revenue Agent. 



No. 884. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

QreensJ)oro\ N. C, Apr. 3, 1882. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, D. C. : 

Sir : Referring to your letter of March 29th, in regard to the inspec- 
tion of officers of the Gth dist., N. C, as per instructions contained in 
S. Mis. 116 32 



498 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



your letter of December 1st, 1881, initials I. D. S., I have the honor to 
report that I furnished Ee venue Agent McLeer with a list of the officers 
in December last, with the request that he inspect them as soon as pos- 
sible; but the fact is that since that time he has been so busy investi- 
gating frauds discovered in that district that he has not had time to 
attend to anything else. I have called Mr. McLeer's attention to your 
letter of March 29th on this subject, and he will proceed with the work 
as fast as possible ; but in view of the fact that court meets at States- 
ville this month, and he has so many fraud cases on hand, I doubt if he 
will be able to make much progress with the inspection before the first 
of next month. 

Very respectfully, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 



,1 



No. 898 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Statesville, N. C, April QtK 1882. 
Col. A. H. Brooks, 

Revenue Agent, Greensl)oro\ N. C. : 
Sir : I have the houorto report that I had an interview at the col- 
lector's ofldce with J. C. Setzer, store-keeper and ganger, who was at J. 
W. Clark's distillery when the eight barrels of whisky w^as stolen from 
the warehouse. He admitted having the key of the warehouse in his 
possession all the time since the distillery suspended in June, 1881, ex- 
cept from July 1st to the 11th, while it was in the collector's office. He 
said he knew there were two barrels empty in the warehouse at the 
time the distillery suspended on June 6th, 1881, but never made any 
report of this fact to the collector's office ; he said he also knew^ that 
there was eight empty barrels in the warehouse when he put up the 
fourteen barrels for Store-keeper and Ganger Walter Mott to withdraw 
October 31st, 1881, but did not let him know anything of it. He denies 
evertakiug or permitting anybody else to take whisky from the ware- 
house untax paid ; but lam satisfied, and so was Dr. Mott, who was pres- 
ent during the interview that he was lying. 

I understand that Clark now says he did not mean what he told me 

the day I examined the warehouse, but only said it because he was mad. 

Collector Mott said he would seize what property could be found at 

the distillery, and recommend Setzer's dismissal from the service. He 

will also make an assessment against Clark for the tax on the whisky. 

Very respectfully, 

EDWARD McLEER, 

Revenue Agent. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greensboro^ N. C, Apr. 8, 1882. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, I). C. : 
Sir : I have the honor to transmit herewith report of Revenue Agent 
McLeer in regard to J. C. Setzer, store-keeper and ganger at J. W. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 499 

Clark's distillery, No. 1750, Gtli (list. N. 0., where eight barrels of spirits 
was removed from the distillery without the payment of tax. 

It seems to me that this is another case where the officer ought to 
be criminally prosecuted. 



Very respectfully 



A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 



No. 962. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greensboro, N. C, May nth, 1882. 
Col. A. H. Brooks, 

Revenue Agent, Greeneboro\ N. C. : 

Sir : I have the honor to report that, in compliance with your in- 
structions, I did, on the 1st day of May iust., proceed to the county of 
Gaston and Cleaveland, in the'cth dist. of N,C.,and made examination 
of 26 distilleries in said counties as follows: No. 1748, 1775, 1327, 1202, 
1386, 644, 2107, 1308, 2040, 2093, 1762, 1230, 2099, 2117, 2082, 2089, 1768, 
1776, 1749, 2064, 1234, 1247, 997, 1005, 2097, 1007. 

That I also made a record of several numbers, &c., of the tobacco 
stamps found in said counties to the number of 166 boxes. 

That in the examination of said distilleries and the books required 
to be kept by the store keepers I found in many instances that the 
store-keepers kept and made the entries in the books required to be 
kept by the distillers, and that it was almost a universal rule for the 
store-keeper to temper the spirits and reduce it to the per cent, proof 
required by the distiller. That I only found saccharometers in use at 
two of said distilleries and one of these was at the distillery of Henry 
Hardy, No. 997, and the store-keeper, W. H. Hoffman, did not know how 
to use it, and that the specific quantity of the beer was not correctly 
recorded in the store-keeper's books in but one instance. 

That the spirit pipes leading from the still to the cistern room in 
quite a number of the distilleries were in a very poor condition. Some 
of them having openings by which spirits could be abstracted. For 
particulars as to the same, I would refer you to the reports made on 
forms 19, showing condition of said distilleries. 

That I examined Franklin C. Ferguson, deputy collector for the 5th 
division of the 6th dist. of N. C, who is 42 years -of age ; has been 
deputy for six months last past ; was a store-keeper and ganger previous 
to his'appoiutment as such deputy, and it is my opinion, after haA itig 
canvassed his said division with him, that he is not a man of sufficient 
ability to keep said division in good shape and prevent the perpetration 
of frauds on the revenue department. 
Very respectfully, 

JAMES W. BALLARD. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greenshoro\ N. C, May 17, 1882. 

Hon. Green B. Raum. 

C<immis.sioner Internal Revenue, Washington, D. C. : 
Sir : I have the honor to transmit herewith report of Mr. Jas. W. 



500 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Ballard, dated the ITtli inst., iu regard to work performed by him iu 
the 5th division, 0th district, N". C. 
Very respectfuUv, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 



No. 972. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Statesville, N. C, May 18, 1882. 
A. H. Brooks, Esq., 

Beventie Agent, Gr€enshoro\ JSf. C. : 
Sir : I yesterday drove out to Johu C. Plyler's distillery for the pur- 
pose of examiuing- it, but when I got there I found it closed, having 
jsuspeuded Apr, 21)th. 1 met Mr. Plyler at his house, where he pays 
special taxes as a 11. L. 1). He said he intended starting up his distillery 
again if he could get the kind of a store-keeper he wanted, but unless a 
store-keeper would do just as he said, he would be damned if he could 
stay around there. Mr. Plyler told me that no store-keeper could come 
there who would not pay him a dollar and a half per day fov his board. 
I am informed that Store-keeper Hoover, who was with Plyler when he 
shut down, is an honest, reliable man. I think Plyler suspended in 
order to get clear of Hoover. Plyler at once made application for 
another store- keeper, and the collector assigned store-keei)er J. P. Doug- 
lass. He went to the distillery, but when he heard Plyler's terms, he 
refused to stay. 

I have reported these facts to Dr. Mott, and he says that unless Ply- 
ler will start up with Store-keeper Douglass, he will have to remain 
under suspension. 

Very respectfully, 

EDWARD McLEER, 

Eev. Agent. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greenboro', R. C, May 19th, 1882. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Cotnmissioner of Internal Revenue, Washington, D. G. : 

Sir: I have the honor to transmit herewith report of Revenue Agent 
Edward McLetr, dated the 18th inst., in regard to Johu 0. Plyler, 
distiller 6th district, N. C, who is desirous of having a store-keeper 
assigned to his distillery who will obey his (Plyler's) instructions, and 
who will pay him one-half of his salary for board. 
Very respectfully, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 

United States Internal Revenue, 

Statesville, ¥. G., April 28, 1880. 
Col. Horace Kellogg, 

Revenue Agent, Statesville, N. G. : 
Sir : Herewith I beg to submit report upon condition of the dis- 
tilleries and officers in the counties or Iredell, Catawba, Lincolu, Burke, 



THI-: SIXTH D'STIIICT OF XORTII CAKOLINA. 501 

Kowaii, Mockleiibur^-, ^^cI)()\v('l], ('abarrns, (Jlevoland, Polk, and Kutii- 
erfoid. Ill this coiiiu'ction I <le.sii«* to express my ajipieciation of tlie 
faitlifnl, coiiscicntious, and jiatient maiiiior in \vlii(;Ii Oaiiycrs Delaiiey 
and Jlowaid, of .Mihvaidiee; Eaton, of Kentucky; and Stewart, of Chi- 
cago, ]»erfornie<l flic work of instrnetinji' tlic ofllieers in the eoiinties 
abo\'e named, and <;annot l)nt ice] that tln-ir labors will jnovj? highly 
beneficial to the revenue service in this district. 

Jn the outset I wish to say that I have had some ex])erience in the 
same condition of affairs that exists in the revenue service in this dis- 
trict, and fully ap))ieciate the difticulties which have surrounded every 
attem])t to make the service conform to the requirements of the de- 
partment, and at the same time to consult the best interests of the 
revenue. I am fully satisfied, therefore, tl)at it is neither impracti- 
cable or untimely to attein])t to I'aise the status of the rev<Miue service 
in this district. Sucii su<;<;estions as I am constrained to make are based 
u])on the iicneral condition of affairs as I found them, disreaardinii' the 
ex(;e]>tions (»f a fa\'orabl(; cliaracter. 

The (listilleiies l)einy- cruder in construction and o])eration, and the 
ca])acity limite<1, the officers have drifted into a contlition of indifl'er- 
ence, and their supervision has been of a constriujfive or nominal char- 
acter. 'JMiey have failed to inform themselves of their res])onsii)ilities 
and duties, and too often have acce])ted precedents instead of comidi- 
ance with law. Few officers have in their jjossession a coi)y of Series 
7, No. 7, and fesver si ill have g^iven it any thought or study. Many 
have admitted that they have not seen it for several jnonths. 

\n kL'(i\)']u<^ their books they are jfuided by precedent, and their en- 
tries are almost entirely constructive, ne\er literal. Few of them could 
swear to the entries in their books if brouf,dit into court. No matter 
how much ^rain may be brought upon the premises, the entry on form 
17 shows only the amount used each day. 

There should be in every distillery a meal box, which should be se- 
cuH'd with a lock 

Tin; pi])es leading;- from the tails of the worm-tanks should be locked 
at each (>]}(iu\u<i; 

The abstraction of low-wines and whisky is a very simple matter in 
neaily all the distilleries. Where glass tubes are used as separators, 
they should be sealed or locked. 

The cistern-rooms, almost witliout exception, are constructed with 
siuf^le boards, which can be removed and replaced without detection, 
and s))irits can be taken from the cisterns witliout any difficulty. 

1 see no reason why the spirit-])ipe should not be securely connected 
with the cistern, and the cistern remain stationary, with a locked fau- 
cet, or locked trap on to]). 

Jn many cases there are really no cisterns used as such, the cask 
beiufi filled and taken away, and another one takinj; its i)lace. 

The cooperaj;(i beiiifj- second-handed, or, at best, very inferior, the 
leakage in warehouse will naturally be great, unless intelligent atten- 
tion is given to the stock in bond. I>y refereiute to the gangers' reports 
of insi)ectioii of spirits (and the gangers in my charge carefully gauged 
every ])ackage in all the warehouses visited), it will be seen that the 
wastage, from leaks or theft, in many cases is very large. 

In this connection I would state that I have, from observation and 
interrogation of officers and others, concbuled that the practice i>revails 
to a certain extent in the district to fill up partially em])ty i)ackages 
from the cistern-rooin, ujioii withdrawal from bond. 1 am the more cer- 
tain of this, as I heard of no rebates being demanded from distillers by 
wholesale dealei's on account of excessive wastage. 



502 COLLECTION OP INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

With but few exceptions I found that the capacities of the tubs were 
greater than reported, and 1 can see no reason why the distiller should 
not, under the loose system xDrevailing, use more grain than he is enti- 
tled to. 

I think the impression prevails very generally that distillers are only 
accountable for the amount of their assessed capacity (two gallons to 
the bushel net), and that all over that amount.is free for abstraction. 
As the product of the distilleries of this district is reported almost 
uniformly at about two gallons to the bushel, I infer that the margin is 
niever tax-paid. 

I believe that the remedy for this course is to be had in a careful ra- 
survey of the tubs, which should be numbered, and their contents in 
cubic gallons in every case marked thereon. No matter what the size 
of a tub was, or its contents, I found that the officer at a four-bushel 
house invariablj^ entered on his book "60 gallons." There seems to be 
but little, if any, check upon the use of unauthorized material. The 
adoption of some system in conformance to the law in this matter would 
be no hardship. 

The officers have an idea that their duties are ended when the work 
of the day is concluded, no matter what the hour may be, and I believe 
a majority of them are not at their distilleries when work commences 
in the morning. Those living at a distance almost invariably go home 
at an earlier hour Saturdaj^, and return at their convenience on Mon- 
day, in some cases leaving meal-box open and key of low-wines pump 
in the hands of distiller. Many officers are in the habit of absenting 
themselves from the distillery during the day while it is in operation, 
a practice not likely to incur the displeasure of the distiller. 

1 believe the iDractice has prevailed, to a greater or less extent, of the 
officer paying, directly or indirectly, a ijortion of his salary to the dis- 
tiller as a consideration for his continuing his operation. This is difficult 
to prove, but it can be broken up by the vigilance and intelligence of 
the deputy collectors. 

The lack of familiarity with the gauging rod and hydrometer, and 
the correct method of using them, on the part of most of the officers is 
uniform. The gauge of the packages is almost invariably too 
hi;jh, and as distillers have frequently admitted to me that they 
" wanted them as big as they can get them," 1 am forced to believe 
that many officers have complied with the wishes of the distillers, and 
thus aided in committing a fraud. The officers in several cases admit- 
ted that, as the error was in the interest of the government, there could 
not be any harm in the practice. 

In some cases it ha& been the practice to put the spirits in several 
per cents higher than marked, to permit filling up with water on with- 
drawal. 

The stamping, marking, and branding of the i3ackages in almost 
every case is very slovenly and indifferently performed. The second- 
hand packages used bear all the original marks, of every description, 
witli scarcely any attempt to erase them. The officers should be 
required imperatively to carefully and completely erase all the old marks 
before gauging and marking again. They have ample time to do this. 
The marks on the bung stave should be placed between the second and 
third hoops, instead of close to the bung, where they are certain to be 
obliterated when an attempt is made to unbung the p'k'g. I think there 
is a simple remedy against filling up while in bond, always providing 
the officer is trustworthy. The collector should require each officer to 
take the proof and outs of every package that is withdrawn, and for- 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 503 

»' ward such report to the collector, to be filed in his office for reference. 
In addition to this, 1 think deputy collectors, when they visit the dis- 
tilleries, should inspect the stock in warehouse and take note of extraor- 
dinary outage. 

Tlie general store-kee])er should make a similar report when he with- 
draAvs any packages. Of course, the ohicer on duty at a distillery 
should promptly report i)ackages with large wantage as soon as dis- 
covered, and he should frequently examine the packages to that end. 
When an officer is assigned to a distillery he should, in company with 
the officer he relieves, take outs and proof of all tbe packages in ware- 
house in order that the responsibihty can be properly placed of any- 
thing irregular. 

No stems should be issued to officers in the district except Nos. 1 and 
2, as they never use the others. 

Every officer should be required to procure a gauging-rod and the 
new wantage-rod, if he has none, and where the one in use is unfit for 
use from age and defect, he should procure a new one. 

With the patient instructions given the officers by the special force, 
I think gauging, including a knowledge of volume, will imi>rove in this 
district. 

I desire to exjiress my unqualified belief that the only true means of 
lifting up, assimilating, and developing the revenue service in this (or 
any other) district is the frequent change of officers from one place of 
duty to another. Under the present system the officer Avho remains a 
year or more on duty at one place becomes a fixture and grows careless 
and indiU'erent. His sympathy and intimacy with the distiller leads 
him to permit or sanction grave violations of the law. No assignment 
over four months should be made at one place. The standard of the 
service can be elevated, if reform is instituted, and if the collector should 
see tit to ado])t anj^ of the suggestions made by the special force sent 
into the district, a circular embodying instructions should be sent to 
every officer, who should understand that efficiency will be the highest 
recommendation for retention on duty. 

In this connection, I beg to say that, with few exceptions, the officers 
of this district can be made </oo(l and efficient revenue officers, faithful 
guardians of the interests of the government, and intelligent aids to 
the distiller. 

To accomplish this end it must be understood by every officer that 
neglect of duty, negligence, absence from distillery during the hours of 
the day, violating the law, and sanctioning violations of the law by the 
distiller will merit prom])t suspension or dismissal from the service. 

The government pays an ample consideration for the services of these 
officers, and has a right to demand a faithful and full performance of 
all the duties imposed upon them. It is no hardship to require these 
officers to do their whole duty under all circumstances and to inform 
themselves upon the nature of those duties. If they do not do so their 
places should be filled with men who will. Something more is expected of 
« store-lreper and (jaufjer than maling fictitious entries in his hools and 
incor recti}/ gauginfi half a dozen pacl{ages in a month. 

I regard it as imi)ortant that dei)uty collectors should give the most 
careful attention to distillers and the officers on duty. They stand in 
the position of supervisors, and their duties are important. They can- 
not perform these duties if they spend a large portion of their time 
about Statesville or any other station ])oint. The condition and needs 
of the distilleries in their respective divisions should be placed before 
them and time given them to put everything in proper shape. A fail- 



504 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

I 

lire to do so sLoulcI have but one result. I believe an equalization ofl 
the salaries of deputy collectors, and an addition to their expense ac- 
counts, would be beneiicial to the service. 

In concluding this suniining up, I had in my mind to say that the de- 
partmeiit does not demand impossibilities of its officers, but it does 
demand that under every and all conditions the officer shall take every 
step necessary to secure the payment of the tax iqjoti all the sinr its pro- 
duced. 

To do this vigilance and faithfulness and an intelligent knowledge of 
his dnties is imperative upon the part of the officer. For this purpose 
he is commissioned, gives bond, and receives a remuneration much 
larger than any other class in the State. I think, with the increased 
number of distilleries in the district, the duties, and consequently the ex- 
penses, of the general store-keepers will be very largely increased, and 
to my mind it will be only simjile justice to recommend either an addi- 
tion to the number or an increase of salary to pay their expenses. This 
I am satisfied you will see the necessity of soon. 

I beg to call your attention to the following letters, which appear to- 
demand your early attention : 

Ganger Hewson reports officer J. F. Mundy on duty at ISTo. 1320, in 
Lincoln Go., as a one-armed man who is incom])etent to perform his 
duties. The distiller has heretofore done the gauging for Mundy, and 
he will hardly ever become proficient in his duties. Ganger Eaton, W. 
M. Lippard as very dull and incapable of learning the duties of his 
office. 

M. L. Hooper's gauging, at J. S. Daniel's, was so incorrect as to war- 
rant the supposition that he either knew nothing of his duty or did not 
gauge the bbls. at all. He was in the habit of absenting himself from 
the distillery for several hours at a time during the day, and closed his 
career at Daniel's by a shooting affray, the merits of which may be dis- 
covered by investigation. 

A. W. Klutz, on duty at Salisbury, has a habit of going to his dinner^ 
one mile away, and absenting himself while work is going on at the 
distillery. 

Ganger Delaney reports C. A. Wilfong as dull and incapable of learn- 
ing his duties. 

At J. B. Lanier's distillery the facilities for obtaining and using un- 
authorized grain are so great as to demand prompt attention. Lanier 
rectifies under two stamps. 

W. P. Cline's distillery requires attention. No openings in the pipes 
are secured. The only lock in use is on the separator. The store-keeper 
at No. 1354 has entered on his form 17.50 lbs. malt received, and noth- 
ing more, and enters as used four bushels per day. He receives 20 or 
30 bushels of grain on the premises, and don't enter it. 

Gauger Howard reports J, P. Douglass at No. 1162 as inattentive. 
He leaves his distillery during working hours during the week and on 
Saturdays, returning late on Monday. He virtually admitted the re- 
filling of pkgs, from cistern-room on withdrawal. 

S. M. Eeed has been in service 13 months, and has no ganging-rod. 

Ganger Delaney reports J. F. Huss as very dull. He has no hy- 
drometer. His books are poorly kept. He is on duty at Siegie's dis- 
tillery, which has no sign, as required by law. This is the distillery 
where all the spirits in the warehouse were stolen, and where there 
should be a resurvey. 

Wm. Kobinson, s..and g. at Calvert's distillery, 631, was absent from 
the distillery at noon of Monday, April 12th. He went home Saturday 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 505 

noon and left some of liis keys with tlie distiller, the meal-box half full 
was open, and wasliinii- and boiling- iiJioing- on. He returned, at 4 p. m. 
Monday. The cistern-room was shaky, one of the boards was loose, and 
easy entrance could be had. 

C. W. Lowrance, at distillery I'JiU, was found four miles from distil- 
lery A])'l 8th. He admitted he had been away all the forenoon. His 
books were incorrectly kept, and he liad been so lonj;- on his duty at this 
house that he had fori;otten all he knew. He should have a rest for at 
least six months. 

J. F. Osborne, at distillery Vo'2(>, is susi>ected of being the real pro- 
prietor of the place. He was keei)ing' his books constructively and in- 
correctly. A package of S])irits was in the cistern -room which belonged 
to the old tirm, and which api>arently had contained over 20 galhnis 
when the house had snsi^ended. Store-keeper didn't know that any re- 
port had ever been made about it. 

J. A. Hoover, s. and g. at Plyler's distillery, leaves every day be- 
tween 2 and 3 p. m. — about the time work is done. He denied it, but 
the distiller admitted it without Hoover's knowledge. 

J. A. Price, s. & g. on duty at A. F. Smitli's distillery, was absent 
from his house when the ofticers visited the i)Iace on two different occa- 
sions. Distillery was under temporary suspension of a few days. 

J. R. Cline, s. and g. at Trout's distillery, reports that no distiller's 
books have been kept since he has been on duty there — October, 1878. 

S. Canley, s. and g. at AVallace's distillery, is not vigilant, and his 
books are incorrectly kei)t. He never reports 18 lbs. bran, nsed daily. 
There is no meal-box or ])lace to ])ut meal at all at this distillery. Pipes 
are not locked, and the whole a])i>aratus is in bad shape. 

H. Y. Mott, s. and g. at jSTo. 1380, does not preserve any system at his 
distillery. Time of filling and emptying and filling is disregarded. 

Ganger Eaton visited Bost's distiliery, 13()9, at 8 a, m., Ap'l 13, and 
found it in operation. The store keeper, O, M, P>arclay, did not arrive 
until an hour later. He has no gauging-rod. 

Ganger Eaton reports that there should be more locks at distillery 
No, 1743. Thes. & ganger, M. A. White has no ganging-rod, 

McCoy, s. &. g. at Daniels's distillery No. 647, recently assigned to 
duty, boards more than two miles from the distillery, gets there between 
9 and 10 a. m. after work is begun, and leaves early. He is not atten- 
tive or faithful in the discharge of his duties. 

At Powell's distilleries near Morgan ton, Nos. 936 and 1714, there is 
a large number of empty pkgs. in the warehouses, (See Ganger Delaney's 
report.) One package, see No. 58, is missing. The officer on duty^ 
Bristol, had never dis covered its absence. His ganging was wild, and 
his proofs runs from 87 to 104, all marked 100. He has been long 
enough in the service to have become efficient, but has not done so. 

Ganger Stewart reports distillery No. 1307 as needing attention. An 
opening in the spirit-pipe permits the abstraction of si)irits. The fer- 
meuters are not nmrked with number or capacity. 

D. Fronabarger, s. & g. at distillery No. 1710, sanctions, through ig- 
norance, irregularity in the mashing and fermenting. He had no gaug- 
ing-rod, and did not comprehend his duties. 

N. L. Whitley, s. and g. at dist. No. 1314, has no locks for tail- 
boxes of the worms ; had two barrels wijiskey in cistern room because 
he had no w. h. stamps to affix to thein ; had no hydrometer; distiller 
keei)sno books; fermenters not numbered or marked, 

E. J. Williamson, s. and g. at distillery 1350, does not weigh his 
grain received or issued, but permits distiller to help himself. He 



506 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

leaves the distillery wbeu iu operation at uoou. He has no gauging- 
rod. 

John A. Kenner, s. and g. at distillery No. 1323; he has no form 18; 
no ganging or wantage-rod, and the distiller has no books. 

While the above irregnlarities are cited in detail, almost all of the 
distilleries should receive a close examination from the deputies in their 
respective divisions, with a view to putting everything in better 
shape. 

In conclusion, I beg to express my appreciation of the arduous and 
difficult nature of the work in your division as revenue agent, and trust 
and fully believe that you will succeed in bringing the same up to a 
higher standard. BbOCt 

I am, very respectfully, yours, 

T. C. TEACIE, 

Revenue Agent. 



The following papers were olfered in evidence by the Chairman : 

Exhihits. 

Treasury Department 

June 28th, 1882. 
Hon. Z. B. Vance, 

U. S. Senate, Washington, D. C. : 
Sir : In reply to your letter of the 27th iustant, I have the honor to 
transmit herewith, for the use of the Committee of Investigation into 
affairs in the sixth district of North Carolina, copies of papers on file 
in this department relative to the removal in 1874, and the reiustate- 
ment in 1875, of J. J. Mott, late collector of internal revenue in said 
district. 

Verv respectfully, 

CHAS. J. FOLGEE, 

/Secretary, &c. 

United States Internal Eevenue, 
Supervisor's Office, Dist. of Va., Caeolinas, Ga., & Fla., 

Raleigh, May 2d, 1874. 
P. W. Perry, Esq., 

Supervisor Int. Rev., Raleigh, ISF. C. : 
Sir : It becomes my duty to report the following facts concerning the 
office and affairs of Dr. J. J. Mott, coll. of int. rev. for the (5th district 
of N. C. : 

1. At the April term of the U. S. dist. court (1874) indictments were 
found against five gangers of the Gth dist. N. C. for fraudulent accounts, 
these accounts embracing altogether seventeen months. Nearly all, if 
not every one, of these fraudulent accounts were made out for these 
gangers in Dr. Mott's office by J. A. Clark, his chief clerk and deputy. 

2. These accounts were sustained by forged vouchers, many of which 
were made by this Clark, and in some instances the forging of the sig- 
natures to these vouchers was done by Clark. 

3. Clark admitted to me that he never administered the oath to 
gangers on their accounts where his signature is affixed to the jurat, 
until quite recently. 

4. Deputy Coll. Clark has been for the past special tax year ending 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 507 

April 30tli, 1874, a surety ou the bond of a distiller in the Gth dist. N, 
0. for the i)ast four months, with tlie knowledjie of Collector Mott. 

5. Deputy coil's almost invariably signed tlicir ])ay-rolls in blank; 
never, so far as 1 can ascertain, swore to them or saw them after they 
were filled u]). 

C. W. II. Kestler was appointed dep't' coll. Never did any duty in 
that capacity, and received sixty-h\'e dollars pay. JMott has received 
credit on his disbursing account for eleven hundred and twenty-live 
dollars i)aid Kestler for services as dei)'t' coll. for the last quarter of 
187-! and the first and second quarters of 1873. 

7. Mott has received credit on his disbursing accounts for nine hun- 
dred dollais ]»aid W. P. Drake for services as dep't' coll. for the last 
quarter of 187L* and the first quarter of 1873. Drake never rendered 
any service as dep't' coll. 

8. Mott received credit on his <lisbursing- accounts for two hundred 
and fifty dollars paid P. E. Martin for st-rvices as dep't' coll. during the 
second quarter of 1873. Martin has never received any pay. 

9. There are a number of other similar affairs connected with Mott's 
disbursing accounts, involving various sums ranging in amount from 
one hundred dollars to five or six hundred each. 

10. Mott has kept J. Q. A. Bryan in the oftice of de])'t' coll. since the 
early part of 1873, assigned to duty in the counties of Wilk's and Yad- 
kin. These counties are remarkably notorious for illicit distillation ; 
none more so in the State, but Bryan has never broken up an illicit dis- 
tiller^' nor reported a violation of internal revenue law. 

11. Mott ignores his duty under the act of March 3, 1873, relative to 
reporting violations of revenue laws to the dist. att'y. 

12. Mott allows the distillers to nominate their own storekeepers. 

13. Mott's course with relation to assignment of officers to distiller- 
ies is such as to occasion strong suspicion that he winks at frauds, if 
he is not directly implicated in it. 

14. In two cases Mott affixed liis signature to the recommendations 
of two persons for apj^ointment in the Post-Office Dep't, upon the terms 
that he should receive a consideration therefor. 

Concerning the foregoing statements I desire to give the following 
more detailed account, referring to the subjects by the same numbers 
which they bear in the preceding portion of this report: 

1 and 2. 1 have two witnesses who will testify that Clark made out 
the fraudulent ganger's bills. The handwriting of these bills is incou- 
testably that of Clark. It appears to have been for a long time a cus- 
tom of many of the gangers to employ Clark to make their bills for 
them. The handwriting of a large portion of the forged vouchers, and 
of some of the forged signatures, is just as clearly Clark's. I have 
made a test of this handwriting of the signatures, and have never 
failed to have it recognized by those who are familiar with Clark's 
handwriting. I can prove that the fraudulent bills of one ganger 
covering six months, and as large frauds as any, were made by Clark 
himself. 

4. In December last I discovered that Clark was surety on the distil- 
ler's bond of W. A. Daniel, Otli dist. X. C. I called Coll. Motf s atten- 
tion to the matter, and he told me he did not know it before, and said 
that the bond was approved by the assessor of the district in the pre- 
vious ]May. I then had a conversation with both ^lott and Clark on 
the subject and called their attention to the law, I understood them 
both to promise tiiat a new bond should be required April 21st, 1874. 
I asked Coll. Mott if the bond had been given, and he replied that he 



608 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

^^stipposed it Lad," On the following' day 1 saw Daniel himself and 
asked him if he had given a new bond. He said he had not, but conld 
do so at any time without any inconvenience; would do so that day if 
desired. 

5, My information on this point is very positive and reliable. 

6, 7, and 9. In addition to these statements, I have to say that Mott 
drew pay for W. A. McCorkle, dep't' coll., from July 1st, 1873. Mc- 
Corkle's services began about the first of Sept., 1873, and ended about 
the first of July, 1874. Mott was credited for his services at the rate 
of fifteen hundred dollars per year, but lias paid only at the rate of 
twelve hundred. Mott drew pay for Ramsey at the rate of eighteen 
hundred a portion of the time, and fifteen hundred the remainder, and 
has paid him less than twelve hundred dollars per year. Tliere has been 
no final settlement with Eamsey, Mott claiming that Eamsey is in- 
debted on some old lists, which Ramsey denies. Mott declares that 
Ramsey will not settle, and Ramsey sa> s that Mott will not make a 
final settlement. Mott drew pay for J. Q. A. Bryan from July 1st,. 
1873, at the rate of fifteen hundred dollars per year; and about the 
last of December, 1873, Br\ant said to my informant that he had re- 
ceived but two hundred dollars. I have good reason to believe that 
Mott never paid N. W. Lillington or W. M. Walker anything for serv- 
ices as dep't' coll., although he has received credit for three hundred 
dollars paid to Lillington and two hundred and fifty ])aid to Walker. 

10. The counties of Wilk's and Yadkin are full of illicit distillerieSy 
and violations of int. rev. laws are notoriously frequent. So general 
are these violations that the whole community is banded together, and 
deputy marshals are unable to serve warrants or make arrests there. 
A. U. S. commissioner was driven out of Yadkin only a few months ago, 
because he had warrants against a number of parties for illicit dis- 
tillation. I talked with Coll. Mott concerning the state of affairs, and 
Bryan's neglect of duty. Some time afterward Mott informed me 
that he had talked with Brj^anon the subject, and said that Bryan told 
him that if he (Mott) wanted the distillers reported and broken up he 
(Bryan). could doit. Mott left the impression on my mind that there , 
w^ould 136 a change in this respect, but I know of no reports of viola- 
tions of law by Bryan, tho' the last conversation I alluded to in the 
paragraph occurred in Feb. last. 

13. A ganger reported toMottcertainfacts which indicated strongly and 
fully satisfied the ganger that spirits were reuioved from the distillery 
without payment of tax. His report was not well received, and he was 
shortly after removed from office on a pretext which if it had been en- 
forced would have removed every other ganger in the district. I after- 
ward influenced Mott to assign a ganger to this distillery whom I knew 
could not be tampered with. About the same time the store-keeper at 
this distillery w^as removed from offlce on my report of his fraudulent 
practices, and another whom I believed to be reliable was assigned to 
the distillery. As soon as the distiller learned of these changes he 
communicated with Mott, and neither of the men above referred to was 
sent to this distillery. I have the very best reasons for believing that 
a week seldom passes without one or more barrels of distilled spirits 
being removed from this distillery without payment of tax. 

14. I give these facts as an illustration of his character, and not as 
being concerned in revenue affairs. He has made arrangements to deny 
the truth of these statements, but I know of two responsible parties to 
whom he acknowledged that the facts were as I have stated. 

In conclusion, 1 desire to say that there are some weighty facts in 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF . NOETII CAROLINA. 509 

favor of Coll. Mott. The, country embraced in his district is a difficult 
one to nianai;;e. It is a difficult matter to get good otticers. He has 
increased the revenue receipts in his district materially. He has built 
ui) a large number of legal distilleries where there were very few before. 
Some of his troubles come directly from his zeal in encouraging these 
distillers and from the difficulty in obtaining suitable men to fill the 
official positions which these distilleries necessitate, 
llespectfully snbniitted. 

A. M. (^RANE, 

Rev. Agent. 



jS^o. 43G2. 



U. S. Internal Revenue, Supervisor's Office, 

District of Virginias, Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida, 

Raleigh, N. C, May 4, 1874. 
Hon. P. W. Perry, 

Supervisor Int. Rrv., Raleigh, W. 0. 

Sir : I desire to call your attention to the following statement, and 
ask your instructions : 

While in attendance on the U. S. (list, court for the western district 
■of N. C, at Statesville, attempting to secure the indictment of int. 
rev. gangers, for presenting fraudulent bills and forged vouchers, I 
learned that the deputy collector, before whom the oath on the bills 
appeared to have been administered, had never administered the oath as 
his certificate set forth. This prevented the indictment of the gangers 
under sec. GO of the act of July 13, 1866, the only revenue l»w i)rovid- 
ing a punishment for the offense. They were, however, indicted under 
the act of March 2, 1863, which provides for the punishment of general 
fraudulent claims. 

In the mean time I obtained proof that J. A. Clark, the deputy col- 
lector in question, made out the fraudulent bills, and some, if not all, 
the forged vouchers. I then asked to have him indicted under sec. 98 
of the act of July 20, 1868, which very clearly defines the offenses 
whicli ne had conunitted; l)ut the district attorney declined, on the 
ground that a deputy collector is not an ^'officer or agent appointed and 
acting under the authority of any revenue lam of the United Staten,''^ to 
which two classes of ijersons the ])rovisions of this section are limited. 

I also asked to have this Clark indicted under sec. 97 of the act of 
JiUy 20, 1868, because he was surety on a distiller's bond, and therefore 
interested in the i)roduction of distilled spirits ; but I was met .with the 
same statement, that a deputy collector is not a revenue officer. 

1 then asked to have this Clark indicted under the general act of 
March 2, 1863, which also applied in general terms to the offenses he 
had committed 5 but the district attorney declined on the ground that 
the application of (his law to the revenue oftenses was a new thing, and 
he did not wish to proceed further under it until he had tested it in the 
cases of the gangers. 

All this trouble arose, first, from a failure of a deputy collector to 
administer oaths as he is required to do, and as he had certified that he 
did do ; aiid, second, from the fact that the district attorney had no law 
that would punish him, because he is not an officer. 

The first is a very important point, and one upon which too much 



510 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENTTE IN 

stress cannot be laid, because of the peculiarity of the revenue laws in 
aflBxing" the penalty, not to the fraud, but to the perjury of a false oath. 
On the second point, I desire to be referred to an authoritative ruling^ 
or law which will fix some punishment upon deputy collectors, like this 
one, who violate the plain provisions of the revenue laws under which 
they hold their appointments. 

Very respectfully, your ob't serv't, 

A. M. CRANE, 

Rev. AgH. 



Statesville, N. C, May 15, 1874. 
Hon. J. W. Douglass, 

Commissioner of Int. Revenue :' 

Sir : In pursuance of my letter of the 7th inst., I respectfully sub- 
mit my answer to the abstract of charges furnished me from the report 
of A. M. Crane, dated May 2ud, 1874. 

1st Charge. — " Fraudulent accounts, for which gangers were in- 
dicted, were made out for the gaugers hy J. A. Clarke Collector Mott's 
chief clerk and deputy." 

Answer. I do not know of my own knowledge that' any of these ac- 
counts alluded to were made out by Clarke. I think I understood that 
some of the gaugers, on account of inexperience, got him to assist them 
in making out their accounts. I received some of the accounts from 
time to time, but not all. In assigning gaugers to work, which I always 
kept under my own supervision, I attempted to arrange it so as to make 
as little expense to the government as possible, and left the accouuts 
to be examined by Mr. Clarke, with instructions to approve them if 
they were reasonable. The details of the office were performed by my 
clerk and deputies. A general supervision of the district, which is very 
difficult, and the sole charge and execution of all the general and im- 
portant correspondence connected with the office was as much, to say 
the least, as I could attend to. I will speak further of the difficulties 
in managing the district in another part of my statement. Mr. Clarke's 
explanation of this charge will be allowed to accompany this statement, 
and I hope will be read also. 

2nd Charge, — " Forged vouchers, sustaining above-mentioned ac- 
counts, were made by Mr, Clarke," 

Answer. I have no knowledge of any such thing. Please read Mr. 
Clarke's explanation as to this, 

3rd Charge. — " Clarke admitted that until recently he never admin- 
istered oath to gaugers on accounts, though he signed the jurat." 

Answer. It has not been customary- for revenue officers to administer 
these oaths, and I understood that this has been generally the case. 
Clarke says that he was not in the habit of doing it in the 4th dis- 
trict, when chief clerk and deputy there. Since the circular instruct- 
ing that it should be done has been sent us, the instructions have been 
strictly adhered to. 

4th Chatige, — " Clarke was surety on distiller's bond, with Collector 
Mott's knowledge," 

Answer. I did not know it up to a certain time, when I ordered it to 
be changed, 

5th Charge. — " Deputy collectors signed pay-roll in blank almost 
invariably." 

Answer. This is true. Mr. Clarke tells me, that as a general thing, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 511 

lie kept blanks signed by the (le]mties, as a matter of convenience in 
making np the (piarterly accounts, as tlie (lei)nties were most likely to 
be out of the way when their signatures would be wanted for this pur- 
pose. The salary was known to be a stated sum, aiul we were aware 
of the service rendered. We are now following the recent instructions, 
and administering the oaths in every case. 

6th Charge. — "Kestler received pay as deputy, but never did serv- 
ice in that capacity." 

Answer. Mr. Kestler was appointed a deputy at the earnest solicita- 
tion of prominent men. I kept hini a short time and found he would 
not suit me as such, and he was discharged. 

7tii CiiARdE. — " 1050 paid Drake, who never did any work." 

Answer. Mr. Drake, one of the publishers of the only Itepublicau 
journal in this district, was appointed a deputy in good faith, but did 
very little service as such, for reason that shortly after his a])point- 
ment, the main ])rinter in the newspaper office became disabled. 
Printers are scarce in this section, and the Presidential campaign 
being on hand, all such were tightly engaged. Consequently, Mr. 
Drake renewed his operations at the newsi)aper office, while his work 
as deputy was faithfully and efficiently discharged by others employed 
for the purpose. 

8th Charge. — This is relative to P. R. Martin having been em- 
ployed in the same way. 

Answer. Mr. Martin did service as deputy, but 'never received pay 
as such, He was named, with others, on the 1st of May, 1873, as the 
deputies employed in tlie district at that time. The name of H. G-. 
Mott, then acting as deputy, should have a[)peared on the June ab- 
stract. Form 03, and his vouchers should have been taken. Clarke 
made a mistake in sending Ivestler's. Mott did good service as dep- 
uty. He captured three (3) illicit distilleries, collected the special taxes 
iu his division, and did otiier necessary work. 

The compensation following the outgoing of the assessors had not 
been allowed at the time that this June abstract was forwarded, al- 
though a letter had been written requesting compensation and sent to 
the department. This June abstract was based upon that letter. The 
vouchers were made accordingly. Clarke says ]w. thought that it was, 
as usual, necessary to send up the abstract at this time, and thought 
he ought to make out the account in accordance with the com[)ensa- 
tion already applied for. This amount was not allowed ; hence the 
disparagement in the abstract and the adjustment. 

The above answer will probably explain the Oth charge as to " many 
similar cases" thou<ih I have deputies who were employed secretly, 
until their operations identified them with the service. The illicit oi)er- 
ations in this district have been so formidable, and of such a character 
that I thought it was proper for me to exercise some discretion in its 
management. 

Uth charge. — ''Bryan, deputy collector, kept in an illicit distillery 
district, and never broke u|) one or reported any violations." 

Answer. Bryan has charge of a mountainous section of the district, 
which by many of those who know much about, it, is regarded, in an in- 
ternal revenue point of view, as outside the jurisdiction of the United 
States. I do not so regard it, but 1 am satisfied that it would be un- 
safe for one who was known as actively engaged against illicit distil- 
lers to pass unattended through some portions of Bryan's division. 1 
have advised Bryan to the course he is pursuing, with a view to carr^> ing 
out the only successful means of putting an end to illicit distillation in 



512 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

the mountain regions of ttiis State, and that is the establishment of 
grain distilleries under the revenue laws. He has done more to aid me 
in this than any other man in the district. Distilleries are going up 
all through his division, and we will soon have snch interests estab- 
lished in connection with them that it will be an easy matter to do 
what has heretofore been an impossibility to accomplish. One of these 
interests is the selection of officers from the localities where the distil- 
ieries are located. They are familiar with the surroundings and will 
give information and assistance. Another interest is that of the distil- 
lers themselves, who object to competition in the purchase of grain, and 
the sale of spirits by illicit operators ; consequently each distillery po- 
lices its own neighborhood. Bryan has also given me information as 
to illicit workings, but all the force I could control has been used in 
another section of the district, which I could more easily reach, and 
which has not yet been overcome, although since last May, I think there 
have been over forty (40) illicit distilleries broken up by this force. I 
thought it useless to go to Bryan's division when I had ample held for 
operation and a more accessible locality. Bryan could do nothing by 
himself, and by making fruitless demonstrations in this direction would 
only unfit himself for the good that he is doing. 

The charge that I " ignore duty relative to reporting violation of law 
to the district attorney," I think is unfair to me. I may have failed to 
report some trivial cases which have come under my observation. I 
think, however, that it is not alwaj^s best to prosecute cases where 
there is a strong probability of a failure to convict, as it is expensive ' 
to the governmenr, and injures the service. In defense of my course 
with regard to this charge I inclose herewith letters from the district 
judge, and the two district attorneys. Without any disrespect to these 
honorable gentlemen, I furnish copies of their letters, written in a 
plainer hand, which will accompany the original letters. 

To the charge that distillers are allowed to nominate their own store- 
keepers, I venture the assertion that not one of these distillers will say 
I promised him his own choice as store-keeper. I have been careful to 
avoid having enemies of distillers assigned to them, at the same time 
I have exercised my own judgment as to those appointments and did 
what I thought best for the protection of the service and the interest of 
the government. 

The charge that I " apparently winked at fraud in the assignment of 
store-keei)ers" is so vague and general, that I am at a loss to know what 
it means, unless it has reference to the assignment of Benbow and Mc- 
Kee, the oidy cases of which I have heard any complaint. If there was 
any fraud connected with either of these distilleries, I never heard of it, 
or even heard it alleged. I never met the distiller to whose warehouse 
Mr. Benbow was assigned until after the assignment was made. He 
lives 45 miles from this office. I have never at any time seen either of 
the firm composing the company to whose distillery McKee was as- 
signed. That establishment is 50 miles oft". 

As to the charge that I " recommended appointment of persons in 
the Post-Office Department for a consideration," I inclose letter of P. 
L. Rose on the subject, he being the individual concerning whom I un- 
derstand such report originated. 

Mr. Clarke, my clerk and deputy, while he has shown great careless- 
ness in many important matters in connection with the office, always 
kept the stamp account and all the money affairs with which L in- 
trusted him in an entirely satisfactory manner. I valued him greatly 
■ on this account. He was highly recommended to me by Hon. P. W. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 513 

Perry, the supervisor, and Collector Young, of the 4th North Carolina 
district, as an able, honest, and efficient man in this business. He was 
under the eye of both these gentlemen as a clerk and deputy for a 
long time, and I snpi)osed learned in a great measure from them. He 
brought his knowledge of the business with him, and says he worked 
here on the experience he had gained. There is no doubt that a good 
deal of his neglect can be fairly attributed to the immense amount of 
work he had to do. 

I came into the office a little over two years ago, and notwithstand- 
ing the reduction of the tax on tobacco, which i« the principal source of 
revenue, I increased the collections the first year over fifty thousand 
dollars. There would still be an increase over last year, if the taxes 
were paid on the whisky and tobacco remaining in the warehouses and 
factories, the marketing of which the j^anic has prevented. 

There are now forty seven (47) grain distilleries constructed in the 
district, which have been mainly worked up by my own iiersonal exer- 
tions. There were only two running in the district when I took the 
place. In the last eight or ten months these distilleries have been con- 
structed so rapidly that they have caused trouble and confusion, which 
could not well be avoided. They are scattered over a large extent of 
country with ])oor facilities for communication even through the mails. 

A very few men in this section know anything about the proper way 
to conduct these distilleries. Out of ihe large number appointed to 
manage them, it was simi)ly out of the question to look after all. Some 
failed to do their duty through ignorance, others through neglect, and 
still others from a disi)osition to do wrong; consequently the force has 
been subject to continual changes. When I found that one of my men 
was neglectful, or lacked capacity, if I could get a better one, I would 
remove him. This is as much as the President could do. Two of these 
prosecuted gangers were discharged by me (mouths before any investi- 
gation of their accounts) for misconduct in another particular. 

Added to all my troubles in connection with this office, I have had 
a secret eneniy in the person of one of my principal deputies, who has 
failed to do his duty, in consequence of which the office is now behind, 
and obstructed my management whenever he could do so without being 
fairly discovered. I kept him longer than I otherwise would have done 
on account of his mechanical knowledge and experience in the construc- 
tion of these distilleries. . "Z^:'''^ 

As collector of this district, I have acted for the good of the service, 
and in the interest of the government and the party to which I belong. 

I feel that I have been as unselfish as it is possible for a man to be 
in all that I have done. 
Very respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 
Agenfs Office, Salisbury, N. C, October 27, 1874. 
Hon. J. W. Douglass, 

Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Washington, D. G. 

Sir : I have the honor to report that from information obtained since 

the beginning of this term of the U. S. dist. court at Statesville, N. C, 

I am fully satisfied that J. J. Mott, collector of internal revenue, 6th 

dist. N. C, has presented to your office and received credit therefor on 

his disbursing account forged vouchers on form , X>iirporting to be 

S. Mis. 116 33 



514 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

signed by W. H. Kessler as deputy collector, on which forged and 
fraudulent he received credit to the amount of $1,125.00, He ac- 
tually paid Kessler only $65.00. The vouchers are for the quarters 
euding Dec. 31, 1872 ; March 31, 1873, and June 30, 1873. There is no 
doubt about establishing the forgery of two of these vouchers. The 
evidence is complete. The other voucher was signed by Kessler in 
blank. 

On account of my report concerning J. A. Clarke, one of Collector 
Mott's deputies and his clerk, Clarke was removed from office. ISTotwith- 
standiDg this Mott has kept him as an employe of the office. He was 
indicted at this term of court for being concerned in the making of a 
large number of false gangers' bills, for the making of -which the gangers 
have also been indicted. 

I have reported these facts to Supervisor Perry. 
Very respectfully, your ob't serv't, 

A. M. CEANE, 

Bev. AgH. 



No. 6. — Statement showing condition of the office of Jno. J. 3Iott, collector 
6th district of North Carolina, at the close of business hours on the 13th 
day of February, 1S7 S.-^Examined by W. t. Glarh. 

(Table accompanying, etc.) 

(Organization of district. Divisions and deputies in charge.) 

Give character of each deputy for intelligence, capacity, and responsi- 
bility. 

There are 10 divisions : 

1. In charge of W. J. Coite, h'dq'rs States ville; comprises the county 
of Mecklenberg and city of Charlotte. Mr. Coite has, as he says, been 
in the service 9 years ; and was selected by Collector Mott as an exper- 
ienced officer to take general supervision of the office. He visits Char- 
lotte about once each week, and is supposed to spend the remainder of 
his time in the office. He has " charge of Forms 108, the disbursing ac- 
count, 23 supplemental, all grain distilleries, surveys, &c,, &c., &c." 

It is evident that he has charge of much more than is for the good of 
the service, considering the manner in which he conducts his business. 
With a proper sense of his duties, he could revolutionize the office and 
make it, as it is not now, respectable and commendable. He should 
give away his dog, throw away his sporting gun, and devote himself 
conscientiously to the duties of his office, or resign from the service 
upon which he now reflects no credit whatever. 

Salary, $1,300 and $400. 

2d. In charge of H. Devire, of Statesville, includes 4 counties ; servic§, 
2 years; salary, $1,100 and $400. 

3d. In charge of W. F. Bailey, of Statesville, includes 3 counties ; 
service^ 5 years ; salary, $1,000 and $400. 

4th. In charge of J. A. Bryan, of Wilkesboro', includes 6 counties; 
service, 5 y'rs ; salary, $1,000 and $400. 

5th. In charge of F. Caldwell, of Sherril's Ford, includes 3 counties; 
service, 1 year; salary, $1,000 and $400. 

6th. In charge of J. B. Eaves, of Eutherfordton, includes 3 counties; 
service, 3 years ; salary, $900 and $200. 



THE SIXTH DISTdUT OF NORTH CAliOLINA. 515 

7tli. In charge of A. B. Gillespie, of Morgaiitown, includes 5 counties j 
service, 1 year; salary, $1,000 and $400. 

8th. In charge of G-. W. Williams, of Asheville, includes 3 counties; 
service, 1 year ; salary, $000 and $200. 

9th. In charge of M. W. Jewitt, of Asheville, includes 3 counties; 
service, 4 years; salary, $1,100 and $400. 

10th. In charge of F. K. Axley, of Murpliy, iiichides 5 counties ; serv- ' 
ice, 1 year; salary, $900 and $200. 

There are 4 gangers and 40 store keepers. 

PRINCIPAL SOURCES OF REVENUE. 

There are 50 grain distilleries, 1,000 fruit distilleries, 5 cigar and 75 
tobacco mannfactories, dealers in leaf tobacco, 7 rectifiers, 26 whole- 
sale liquor dealers, and 2 banks and bankers. 

The nearest distillery to the office is 1^ miles distant, the most remote 
260 miles. 

It is a difficult distri<;t to manage, and requires men of the highest 
order of courage and endurance to make the service effective. 

The impetus which tliey receive at headquaiters is not such as to in- 
sure the best results. 

Deputy Coite says tlie amounts with rectifiers are kept by the depu- 
ties of di\isi«»ns where there are rectifiers. 

GENERAL SUMMARY. 

Collector Mott should be required : 

1. To fit up his office in a manner and style which will preserve the 
public records, and aft'ord the necessary facilities for the transaction of 
the public business. 

2. To insist that all his clerks, including Deputy Coite, shall, in future 
avoid blotting, scratching, or defacing in any manner the records, and 
shall keep tbem clean and in a business-like style. 

3. To immediately cause all tbe stub-books to be returned to the de- 
partment. 

4. To \\^\Q\n8 internal revenue record ?iji&lists bound and conveniently 
placed for the reference of himself and his subordinates. 

5 To provide a proper place for his stationery^ where it will be pro- 
tected from dust and tilth. 

6. To give such constant attention to his lists as will enable him here- 
after to make a more satisfactory showing than that now presented. 

And, finally, heshould understand that notwithstanding the character 
and habits of the people among whom he lives, his office should be one 
disi^laying neatness and order, thus by example inculcating that regard 
for cleanliness and decency which is the first step towards real progress 
in any community. 

Eesnectfully submitted. 

W. T. CLARK, Agent. 
" Grade of office, as per scale of merit, No. 3. 



No. 4995. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Greensboro^ W. C, Sept. 5, 1878. 

Sir.: I have the honor to report that I have for some time past been, 
engaged in an investigation of the acts of certain persons near Morgan- 



516 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

town, in the 6th district of K C, among them R. A. Cobb, U. S. store- 
keeper and ganger ; D. C. Pearson, clerk Burke County superior court; 
Teriill Hudson, Hudson, Johnson & Co., and Huffman & Co., distillers, 
all of whom are and have been engaged severally and in combina- 
tion to defraud the revenue in unlawfully removing spirits, refilling 
empty stamped casks, and reusing spirit stamps, with the result of se- 
curing what appears to be conclusive evidence of their guilt. Being 
about to leave this district, I have placed this evidence in the hands 
jointly of Collector J. J. Mott and Eevenue Agent Chapman, to be used 
in seizing property and the bringing offenders to punishment. Collector 
Mott is very indignant at the conduct of Store-keeper Cobb, w^ho has 
thus grossly betrayed his confidence, and is disposed to press the case 
against him and his associates. I trust that he may be instructed to 
cause his immediate removal from office, and that prosecution be insti- 
tuted against him, as he has been the leading spirit in the frauds, and 
that Mr. Chapman may be advised of the importance of immediate ac- 
tion in these cases. 

Very respectfully, 

JACOB WAGNER, 

Eevemie Agent, 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner Internal Revenue, Washington, JD. C. 



No. 8599. 



United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, 6th District, North Carolina, 

Statesville, August 2dth, 1879. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Int. Rev. : 

Sir : A copy inclosed to Col'r Mott of a letter written by Collector 
Brayton the 9th instant to yourself, in which he makes formal com- 
plaint of "suspected fraudulent transactions'' in the sale of corn 
whisky by Mr. A. B. Rhyne, a distiller in the 6th district of N. C, 
has been referred to me. In this letter he says : " This is the first time 
I have ever made formal complaint to the department of the violations 
of the revenue laws outside of this district, and I would not now do so 
in this case did I not feel that Rev. Ag't W. H. Chapman has been dere- 
lict in protecting this district against a notorious fraud." As he says 
this, he feels that I have been derelict of duty in not protecting, «&c., 
and makes th at his excuse for reporting what he in one place alleges 
to be a case of " suspected fraudulent transactions " ; in another " aclear 
case of fraud " ; and another, " the disgrace of the service," I feel it 
due to myself to make some reply to this communication, and bv a 
statement of facts show that his convictions in reference to myself 
could not have been arrived at by investigation on his part, and that 
he has no grounds for charging me with dereliction of duty in trying to 
prevent what he terms " a disgrace to the service," nor does he show 
that it is a " clear case of fraud." 

In my letter to you of the 9th inst., reporting result of investigations 
made in Gaston and other counties in the 6th district N. C. concerning 
the charges that store-keepers were dividing their pay with distillers, I 
referred to some of the causes which led to the establishing of so many 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 517 

legal distilleries in this district ; to the accunnilation of spirits in hands 
of distillers, and tlieir necessity of making sales in order to continue 
business, as well as their mode of putting' it upon the market, i. e., as 
retail dealers in kegs containing h^ss than 5 gallons. The distiller re- 
ferred to by Col'r Briiyton, A. B. Ithyne, near Gastonia, was about the 
first to commence selling iu this way. Last year he had license, both 
as w. and r. 1. dealer. His bbls. and kegs were ordered from almost 
every market in that section, and selling at a lower price than other 
dealers, it very naturally excite<l the suspicion that he was handling 
untaxpaid spirits. The wholesale dealers who were not distillers as- 
sumed that it must be so from the fact that they could not compete 
with him, and public notice, as well as the attention of revenue ofticers 
was directed towards him. 

Frequent examinations have been made of Rhyne's establishments, 
who believes they are instigated by the w. t. dealers to annoy him. 
He claims that he can aflbrd to do a strictly legitimate business and 
undersell tliem, and will <lo it. 

On the IGth of Jan'y last, I reached Gastonia at 3 o'clock a. m., and 
hired a horse, and visited the distilleries of 0. M. Ehyne, Morris & 
Bro., and W. F. Kbyne, I reached A. P>. Rhyne's, who had two distil- 
leries in opei ation, early in the morning ; am certain that he had no 
knowledge of my being in the neighborhood; I made a close examina- 
tion, but found nothing wrong about the premises; I questioned him 
about his prices, and k'arned, as I afterwards found, that he had no 
regular price for his whisky. He sometimes sold at $1.10 per gallon 
in order to introduce his whisky, but made it average $1.25 per gallon. 
I spent that day and part of the next in that vicinity, making inquiry 
with a view ot discovering, if possible, how Rhyne was violating the 
law. After leaving there I visited Spartansburg, Greenville, Walhalla, 
and various other places in S. C, reaching Columbia on the L*5th of Jan. 
I found A. B. Rhyne's corn whisky in the hands of r. I. d's at most 
of these places. At Greenville, accompanied by Dep. Cid. Jellson, we 
tested the proof at several r. 1. d's houses, but found nothing wrong 
about it. Wherever 1 could obtain them, I examined the bills, and 
foun<l his prices to correspond with statements made to mc. As this 
whisky supplies S. C. trade it very naturally causes complaint on the 
part of the distillers there. While in Columbia, about that, time, 1 con- 
versed with Collector Braydon about it, who says, 1 " was fully cogni- 
zant of the fraud and proposed to break it up." 

Had I been cognizant of any fraud I would have done so, but he nor 
no one else has ever furnished any other evidence of fraud than that 
the whisky is sold in kegs containing less than 5 gallons, and some- 
times at $1.10 per gal. On Feb. 18th, I visited D. H. Andrew, who 
was confined in the Yorkville, vS. C, jail, for violation of int. rev laws. 
He had intimated to Deputy Col'r Gyles, of Spartansburg, S. C, that 
he could aid me in detecting A. B. Rhyne in violating the law. His 
proposition was to purchase a bbl. of unstamped whisky from A. B. 
Rhyne, to be delivered on a certain night from his warehouse, which I 
was to have watched, of course 1 was to procure his release from jail iu 
or<ler to allow him the oi)portunity. As I had no assurance that he 
would ever attempt to carry out what he proposed to do, after he got 
out of jail, J could not agree to this i)roposition. He stated that he had 
dealt in blockade whisky, but had never bought any from Rhyne. 
His reason for believing that he could, was that two men living at 
King's Mountain, told hiiu they could get it for him for $1.00 per gal- 
lon, from A. B. Rhyne's warehouse at night. 1 then told him if he had 



518 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

any friend who would enter into this arrangement for him and carrj 
it out, I would procure his release ; he replied, " He had, and would 
communicate with him and make the arrangement," and write to me.. 
But as I've heard nothing more from him, 1 concluded it was only an 
effort to get out of jail. 

Collector Brayton says the business is constantly increasing in pro- 
portions, to the great injury of honest dealers, and the disgrace of the 
service. It has increased because other distillers finding they could in- 
crease their sales by supplying consumers in quantities less than five 
gals., have become r. 1. d's. 

Collector Brayton gives as an evidence of this " notorious fraud," in 
Gaston, Co., N. C, that a Greenville, S. C, r. 1. dealer named N. B. 
Freeman, who deals almost exclusively in this liquor has so prospered 
that he has established four bar-rooms in that place, and has th& 
whisky come in different kegs addressed to his different bar-tenders 
to avoid a seizure in that State, on account of making a purchase of 
over 5 gals. 

On the 9th inst., while traveling from Dallas, I discovered 5 kegs of 
whisky in the express car being shipped, one each to the following ad- 
dress, by B. Y. Morris, r. 1. d., at Dallas, N. C; N. B. Freeman, Jas. 
Jenkins, Doc Burnham, Jno. Bull, and Dick Pool, of Green \'ille, S. C. 
Suspecting that these kegs were for the same person, that some of these 
names were fictitious, and that Morris was wholesaling without license^ 
I wrote to Deputy Collector Jellson, at Greenville, giving him particu- 
lars and requesting him to watch these kegs and see wbat became of 
them. I would have sent tbe communication directly to Collector Bray- 
ton, but was afraid the kegs would reach Iheir destination before the 
division deputy could be communicated witb. I've not yet heard from 
him the result of his inquiry, but Collector Brayton explains it by giv- 
ing tbe information that "the kegs are addressed to his different bar- 
tenders to avoid seizure, &c." Now, the question arises, who is the- 
purchaser of this whisky; IST. B. Freeman, or the parties to whom it 
is addressed 1 I think it will be agreed that the latter must be regarded 
as the purcbasers and that there is no violation in buying while Morris^ 
as r. 1. d., has the right to sell. But the presumption is that they sell 
it again, and in that, violate the law by retailing without license. ISTow, 
here is an excellent opportunity for Collector Brayton to aid in " up- 
rooting the traffic" if the license at each place is in N. B. Freeman's 
name. During my investigation in Gaston Co., recently, I visited A. B.. 
Ehyne's distilleries, with Deputy Collector Jewett, as soon as I reached 
there, and took special i)ains to make a thorough investigation of his 
premises to see if I could discover any fraudulent practices, but could 
not. I am no apologist for A. B. Ebyne, nor any of these retailers by 
the keg, but I think the true cause of all this complaint lies in the law 
authorizing retail dealers to sell spirits in quantities less than 5 gals, 
without being stamped or without requiring the r. 1. d's to produce evi- 
dence that it has been tax-paid. It certainly affords an outlet for the 
sale of illicit whisky and oj erates unfairly towards the wholesale dealer 
in the sections of country where there are so many distillers. If the 
amount could be restricted to one gallon instead of less than 5, which a 
retail dealer would be allowed to sell, I have no doubtit would increase 
the amount of tax paid whisky consumed each year, afford better pro- 
tection to the wholesale dealer, and be no injury to the honest distiller.. 

On this subject 1 beg leave to say more hereafter. 
Verv resi)ectfnllv, 

W. H. CHAPMAN, 
' Recenue Agent, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OP NORTH CAROLINA, 519 

No. 9577. 

Greensboro', N. Ci, Dec. 11, 188(>. 

Hon. (irREEN B. liAUM, 

Commissioner of Int. Rev.., Washington., J). C: 

Sir : I have the honor to report that in compliance with your instruc- 
tions of November 10th, initials F. D. S., inclosing what purported to 
be a circular dated Sei)t. 1st, 1879, issued by Collector Mott, of the Oth 
dist. of N. 0., to store-keepers and gaugers of his district, requiring each 
of these subordinates to pay a monthly assessment of one per cent, of 
their salaries to the collector to meet office expenses. 

I have investigated the matter sufficiently to ascertain that the cir- 
cular referred to and which is herewith returned is genuine, and was 
issued and sent out with the knowledge and consent of Collector Mott. 

I first called on the person from whom the circular was obtained, who 
informed me that he sent to the collector regular every month one per 
cent, of the amount received by him. each month as i)er request con- 
tained in circular, and that other store-keepers and gangers whom he 
had met informed him they were doing the same. 

1 next interviewed Collector Mott (whom I met at Greensboro') on 
the subject, to whom I showed the circular, and who stated that said 
circular had been issued by his direction under the following circum- 
stances : 

The employment of a large number of store-keepers and gangers 
made necessary by the starting of so many registered distilleries in the 
district, caused to be incurred expenses for which no allowance had 
been or could be made, which expenses had to be paid from the private 
funds of the collector and others in the office. 

One of the items was for the employment of a young man to pick 
out, wrap up, and mail to store-keepers and gangers supplies of blanks, 
requisitions for which were coming in every day ; he also helped copy 
letters to store-keepers and gangers, and in other ways assisted said 
officers, besides attending to other duties about the office, such as keep- 
ing the office clean, and running of errands, &c. 

The name of the young man thus employed is Henry Dean, and for 
some time was paid by the collector and others in the office, who gave 
him a certain amount of money, amounting to about ten dollars a 
mouth. 

A (jheck-book was wanting for the payment by check monthly of the 
store-keepers and gangers' salary ; application was made for the same 
of the department. 

The collector was informed that the bank at which he made his de- 
posits would furnish him check-books; this the bank declined to do, so 
a check-book had to be purchased, and other things in like manner. 

About the 1st September, 1879, Deputy Collector Coite suggested to 
the collector that the store-keepers and gangers ought to help pay these 
expenses. Collector Mott thinking it right that they should, author- 
ized Coite to send out the circular letter of September first. 

Dr. Mott informed me that he did not know just how mu(;li had been 
received, but that an account of recei])ts and disbursements were kept 
at the office of Mr. Dwire, the assistant cashier. 

On the 2d inst. I arrived at Statesville, and saw Deputy ('ollector 
Coite, who confirmed Collector Mott's statement in regard to the 
matter. 

I next called on Assistant Cashier Dwire to produce his book show- 



520 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

iiig the receipts and disbursements of money received from store-keep- 
ers aud gangers. He produced a book, but it was not written up, 
Dwnre claiming tliat lie had so much office work to do that he had 
neglected it for some time. 

In ex];)lanation of his manner of keeping this account, Mr. Dwire 
stated that the store-keepers aud gangers usually sent the money in au 
envelope with some of their reports, sometimes with a memorandum or 
letter of transmittal, stating purpose for which money was then sent, 
and sometimes the money was sent without any explanation. The per- 
son who opened the letter would hand the monej", with the letter of 
transmittal, to him, and he, Dwire, would put it away in the safe until 
he had time to enter it in the book ; in case no memorandum came with 
the money, the person opening the mail would make a memorandum, 
stating from whom received, as shown from reports contained in envel- 
ope, and hand the same to Mr. Dwire, who would place them in the safe, 
unless he was at leisure when the money was received, in which case 
he would enter it on the book ; and in cases where the entries were 
made at the time the money was received, the memorandum was not 
kept. 

After looking over the account, I concluded it would be best to allow 
Mr. Dwire (to) write up his book and prepare a statement for me show- 
ing the amount received from each person, together with an itemized 
statement of the disbursements. 

I explained to Mr. Dwire the form in which I desired these state- 
ments made up, and then counted the balance remaining in his hands 
unexpended, which amounted to one hundred and lifty-two dollars and 
eight cents (152.08). 

I left Statesville on the morning of the 5th in company with Revenue 
Agent Kellogg, visiting Hickory and Asheville, examining tobacco fac- 
tory and working up on other matters, returning to Statesville on the 
evening of the 7th inst. Mr. Dwire had not yet finished making up 
the statement, but had it ready on the morning of the 8th. 

I have checked off the amounts received for which Mr. Dwire has 
letters of transmittal or memorandum, and find received from W, T. 
Holland 28c. and T. C. Ford $1.08, not entered, Avhicli amounts I have 
marked opposite to their names in red. I have also checked off on the 
statement of disbursements the amounts for which Mr. Dwire holds 
vouchers ; no dates are given in the statements, as the accounts are not 
kept by date. 

JEenry Dean, the young man paid from this fund from September, 
1879, to and including June, 1880, is still employed in the office, but I 
am informed that he has been paid from an allowance made by the de- 
partment since July 1st, 1880. 

The statement furnished me by Mr. Dwire is herewith inclosed, 
which shows the following amounts received aud disbursed: 

Total amounts recei ved $390 16 

Total amounts disbursed 2'62 50 

157 66 
T.)talca8h on hand, Dec. 8th, 1860 154 33 

Unaccounted for 3 33 

Received from Holland and Ford, not entered 1 36 

Total unaccounted for $4 69 

This account seems to have been very carelessly kept, and in my 
opinion is not correct. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 521 

Forinstsiiico, tlic ])ei'soii fioni ^Yh()m tiic inclosed cjicular was obtained 
is ready to make ailidavit tliat he made tive ])ayments, amountinji' in 
all to five dollars and some cents, while he is only credited on the 
statement with three payments, amounting to three dollars and thirteen 
cents ($3.13). ■ 

Revenue AjLjent Kellogji' informs me of a store-keeper and ganger 
who told him months ago that he was i)aying into this fund monthly, 
but his name does not aj)i)ear on this statement. 

It will take a long time to see ])ersonally every store-keeper and 
gauger and ascertain the amounts i)aid by each. 

1 would therefore respectfully suggest, as a means of i)romptly as- 
certaining the accuracy of the statement as to the amounts received, 
that letters be sent to each store-keeper and gauger in the service since 
September 1st, 1870, requiring them to rej)ort by return mail the amount 
each has paid. 

I have a copy of the inclosed statement, which will be of service to 
me in any further investigations of this matter you may desire to have 
me make. 

Very respectfully, 

A. H. BKOOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 

Internal Revenue Office, 
Statesvillc, N. C, ISeptemher 1st, 1879. 
Sir : There are office exi)enses for which no allowance has been 
made by the government, and as it is not right that some officers should 
pay all and others none, I have thought proper to equalize them. 

i consider that one per cent, of your monthly salary is a reasonable 
assessment. Please, therefore, at once, upon the receipt of your ])ay 
each month, forward to this office the amount due from you, as above 
specified. 

An account of receipts and expenditures under this fund is kept at 
this office for inspection by all concerned. 
Respectfully, 

J. J. MOTT, 

Collector. 



No. 6. 

United States Internal Revenue, 
Collector's Office, Gth District North Carolina, 

Marion, April 29, 1880. 
Col. Ed. McLeer, 

Rev. Afft: 
Sir : I accompanied Store-keeper M. M. Teague to the warehouse of 
A. Simmons (No. 055) this morning, and gauged and tried the proof of 
49 packages contained therein, a report of which I have filed with 
Coll'r Mott. 

The original gauging, as shown by cutting on bung-stave, is incorrect 
in every instance, being generally greater than measurements with 
gaugiugrod will sliow, the difference in some cases being 5, (3, and 6| 
gallons. The proof in two packages is 5 per cent, and C per cent., re- 
spectively, but generally running from 88 to 95 per cent., two packages 
beiug 09 per cent, and 78 per cent., respectively, all marked 100 on 
bung-stave. 



522 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

! 

There is in two instances 39^ and 44^ gallons wantage, leading but 
one gallon in the package, three other packages being 14^, 25, and 33 
gallons wantage, respectively, the balance running from 2^ to 6J gal 
Ions wantage. 

The spirits in this warehouse appears to have beeti tampered with 
long ago, as some of the packages thus affected have evidently not 
been disturbed for some considerable time past, they being two tiers 
high, the lower tier resting on the ground, the mould and marks and 
surroundings being such that I judge they had not been disturbed for 
the space of a year at least. 

The present store keeper, M. M. Teague, says they are in the same 
condition in which they were when he was assigned to the above-men- 
tioned warehouse. 

H. W. Moore is the store-keeper and ganger who gauged the pack- 
ages, and was relieved by M. M. Teague August 1, 1879. 

Respectfully submitted. 

J. D. EATON. 



No. 73. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Greenshor^o, N. C, March 7, 1881. 
Hon. Green B. Eaum, 

Commissioner of Int. Bev., Washington, D. G. : 

Sir: In comx)liance with your letter of the 21st ultimo (F. D. S. & 
H. E. W.), inclosing a communication from A. F. Randall, in relation to 
frauds at the distillery of W. O. Muller, 6th dist., N. C, and directing 
me to investigate the matter, I have the honor to report that I went 
to Asheville, JST. C, and then drove to the locality of the distillery, and 
took, in writing, the statements of the parties mentioned in the communi- 
cation of Mr. Randell. I inclose copies of their statements. lam of 
the opinion that frauds have been per})etrated at this distillery by col- 
lusion of the store-keeper and ganger, J. W. Cannon, with the distiller. 
I have directed that Mr. Cannon be arrested, and if convicted that the 
distillery be seized. 

As to the charges in the communication that the store-keeper, G. W, 
Cannon, owns and runs the bar-room near the distillery, and is pur- 
chasing grain to run the distillery, I will state that the bar-room is near 
by but not on the distillery premises, and I could get no evidence that 
Cannon had any interest m it. As to purchasing grain to operate the 
distillery, I think he weighs the grain an keeps and account of it as it 
is brought in, but I could not get any proof that he was interested in 
any other way in the purchase. 

The parties whose statements I have taken say they will testify to 
the facts as taken down. I left a copy of their statements with the offi- 
cers at Asheville, and directed that a thorough examination of these par- 
ties be had before the U. S. commissioner. 
Very respectfully, 

HORACE KELLOGG, 

Revenue Agent. 



THE SIXTH DISTRFCT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 52^ 

Part of No. 73. Inclosure ^ 1. 

Statement of James Young. 

Turnpike, N. C, March 3d, 1881. 
James Yoiinj,^, living near tlie distillery of W. O. MuUer, in the Gth 
dist. of N. C, says that about 2 years ago he worked at said distillery ; 
that by direction of G. W. Cannon, store-keeper & ganger, he carried 
an empty barrel upon which the stamps were not destroyed from the 
bar-rooin located near the distillery of W. O. Muller, to the bonded 
warehouse of said distillery ; that the barrel was then refilled, and that the 
next day, he, Young, hauled the refilled barrel to Asheville, N. C, to 
the bar-room of Mr. Sorrells. He says that when he carried the empty 
barrel from the bar-room to the warehouse that G. W. Cannon motioned 
him to put his hat over the stamp, that those standing by should not 
see it, which he did. 



Part of ^ 73. Inclosure No. 2. 

Statement of Peter Miller. 

Near Turnpike, N. C, March 3d, 1881. 
Peter Miller, who lives near Turnpike, N. C, says that about 2 years 
ago he worked at the distillery of W. O. Muller, at Turnpike, district 
N. C, at which G. W. Canncni was store-keei)er and ganger. That on 
one occasion he helped G. W. Cannon carry a 40-gallon barrel of 
whisky from the warehouse of said distillery to the bar-room near by. 
That there was no stamp upon the barrel, except the warehouse stamp. 
That he. Cannon, told him that the tax-paid stamp had been sent for 
and that it would probably come by the next day. That he, Miller, never 
saw the tax-paid stamp, or knew of its having been put upon the barrel- 



Part of No. 73. Inclosure No. 3. 

Statement of rinkney }Villiams. 

Buncombe Co., N. C, March 4:, 1881, 
Pinkney Williams, who lives about three miles from Turni)ike, N. C, 
says, that (he) has worked at the distillery of W. O. Muller, 0th district, 
N. C, at which G. W. Cannon was the store-keeper and ganger. That 
about the 1st of January, 18S1, he saw a barrel of rye whisky brought 
to the bar-room near said distillery; that the rye whisky was drawn out 
into bottles, and that the barrel was then taken to the warehouse of said 
distillery and refilled with corn whisky by the store-keeper, G. W. Can- 
non, and then taken away. The stamps were not destroyed when the 
barrel was emptied, nor were other stam])Sput upon the barrel when it 
was refilled. He says that at various times he has seen Cannon, while 
Store keeper at the said distillery, take whisky in jugs from the ware- 
house to the bar-room. Also that he has seen Cannon fill bottles from 
the cistern in the cistern-room of said distillery. That Cannon haa 



524 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE 



IN 



frequently filled bottles for biui, Williams, from the cistern-room wiiile 
he, Williams, worked at the distillery. That he has seen Cannon weigh 
the grain brought to the distillery but never saw him pay for it. That 
he does not kuow of Cannon's having an interest in the bar-room. 



I 



Part of 73. Inclosure No. 4. 

iState^nent of James Rutherford. 

Buncombe Co., K C, Mareh 4, 1881. 
James Rutherford, who lives about three miles from Turnpike, N. C, says 
that he has worked at the distillery of W. C. Muller, in the 0th dist. 'of 
N. C, while G. W. Cannon was store-keeper and ganger at tlie said dis- 
tillery; that he has at various times seen whisky taken from the ware- 
house of said distillery in oue and two galk)u jugs, and carried to the 
bar-room near by ; that he has seen said Caunou weigh the grain that 
was brought there, but never saw him pay for it; that hehas^iokuowl- 
■edge of Canuon's owniug any interest in the bar-room. 



IvTo. 234. 

United States Internal Revenue, 
_ Ealeigh, N. C, Ajrr. 20th, 1881. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Int. Rev., Washington, I). C. 

Sir : I have the honor to report that on the 15th inst., I visited the 
collector's office, 0th dist., N. C, for the purpose of farther investigat- 
ing the matter of assessments paid by deputy collectors and store-keep- 
ers and gangers, for the purpose of defraying the incidental expenses 
of the collector's office, which payments were made, as per request con- 
tained in circular letter, issued by Collector Mott, dated Sept. 1st, 1879, re- 
questing said officers to pay for the purpose above mentioned, an as- 
sessment of one per cent, of their monthly salary. I find the discrep- 
ancy between the statement furnished by Mr. Dwire, who has charge 
of the incidental office fund, and the one made up at the department, 
from reports of officers who contributed to this fund accounted for in 
part, as follows : 

The amounts paid by deputy collectors Brown, Coite, Colyer, and 
Davis, in excess of the amounts accounted for on Mr, Dwire's statement 
were paid prior to Sept. 1st, 1879 (the date of circular letter), and never 
passed through Mr. D^yire's hands, the same having been paid by the 
contributors in monthly installments to Henry Dean, a colored boy 
employed about the office as janitor, and to assist the deputies and 
clerks in the office, and Avho, since July 1st, 1880, has been paid from 
an allowance made by the department. 

In regard to the 1104.00 reported by Store-keeper and Ganger J. W. 
Clarke, $88.00 reported by W. D. Mason, 190.00, reported by Deputy 
Collector Ray, I ain satisfied these were paid for political purposes and 
should not be included in the office incidental expense account. 

In regard to the 32.00 which appears on the department statement 
to have been paid by P. M. Nicks, store-keeper and ganger, I would 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 525 

State thatou the 16th inst. I called upon Mr. Nicks, at his residence in 
Yadkin County, and obtained from him tlie following statement: 

Mr. Nicks says he wastirst assigned to duty as store- keeper and ganger 
Feb. loth, 1880, at the distillery of J. F. (Jouch & Co., Zion, Yadkin 
Co., Gth dist. N. C, where he remained until June 12tli, 1880. In March 
or April, 1880, Deputy Collector Sullivan called on him at the above- 
mentioned distillery with a letter from Collector Mott, addressed to the 
store-keei)ers and gangers of Yadkin County, requesting all of said officers 
to sign a blank check for campaign i)uri)Oses. Sullivan had a package 
of blaidv cluH^ks with him, and Ni(;ks wrote his name on the back of 
one of them. Sullivan told him at the time that it wonld not amonnt 
to more than lo.OO or 20.(K), but he afterwards learned that the, check 
had been filled u]) for 104.00, the amount due him for services rendered 
during the month of May, 1880. When, in December, he was called 
ni)()n to report the amount paid by him for incidental expenses of the 
Gth district collector's office, he had received all moneys due him except 
his salary for the months of May and Jnne, neither of which he has yet 
received. Not having i)aid anything for office expenses, he misconstrued 
the meaning of your letter, and reported $104.00, the amonnt of his 
salary for May. In less than a week after he had so reported. Deputy 
Collector Sullivan called on him, and, upon being informed by Nicks 
that he had reported to Washington that he had paid $104,00 for office 
expenses, Sullivan told him that he should not have been in such a 
hurry to answer the letter, and that he ought not to have reported the 
$104.00 as ex])enses of the office, as it was for campaign puri)oses. 
Then, at Sullivan's request, Nicks addressed another letter to the Hon. 
Commissioner of Int. Kevenue, stating that the $104.00 previously re- 
ported was not for office ex])enses but for campaign expenses. 

Nicks says that he never reported 32.00 paid for any purpose; that 
the $104.00 is all that he has paid for any purpose; Deputy Collector 
Sullivan told Nicks that he wouldbe suspended forreporting the $104.00. 
Nicks says Sullivan told other store-keepers and gangers, friends of his, 
that he, Nicks, would be suspended for a year, and perhaps for life, for 
re])orting the $104.00. Nicks has not been on duty since the last of 
February, the distillery to which he was assigned having suspended at 
that time. Mr. Nicks is an elderly man, and i believe the statement he 
has made to be true. His statement in regard to indorsing the blank 
check is verified by other store-keepers and gangers, who also indorsed 
blank checks in the hands of dei)uty collectors for campaign puri)0ses. 
He seemed to regret very much having made the mistake in reporting 
the $104.00. 

By reference to his letter, dated Dec. 20, I find that he did report 
$104.00 and I am of the opinion that the 32.00 in the department state- 
ment should be included in the $104.00, which was i)aid by Nicks for 
campaign expenses, and that he paid nothing for office expenses. 

The remaining discrepancies, between amounts reported paid by of- 
ficers and the statement furnished by Mr. Dwire, are, in my opinion, 
accounted for in part by the careless manner in which the assessnuiut 
account was kept, and in part by the defective memory of the officers 
who paid the money. 

1 herewith return the department statement; statements furnished 
by H. X. Dwire, of the collector's office; my report of Dec. 10th, 1880 ; 
circular letter, dated Sept. 1st, 1879 ; together with letters of the offi- 
cers stating amounts paid them — all the papers 1 have in the case. 
Very respectfully, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent, 



526 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

No. 233. 

United States Internal Eevenue, 

Raleigh, N. C, April 20th, 1881. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Int. Revenue, Washington, D. G. : 

Sir : Eeferring to a conversation Lad with you March 28th in regard 
to the assessment of officers in the 6th dist., IST. C, for office expenses, 
&c., I have the honor to report that on the 12th instant I called upon 
Collector Mott and handed him your note. Collector Mott stated that 
he intended to visit Washington soon, and would go prepared to ex- 
plain to you all matters relative to the assessment of the officers of his 
district; he thought he could explain everything to your satisfaction, 
and would much prefer doing so before investigation was ordered. I 
was of the opinion that nothing could be gained by pressing the mat- 
ter, so I concluded to let it rest until further instructed. 

I regard to the two officers who, it was rumored, had paid or had re- 
tained from their salary, one $900.00 and the other 1400.00, I have to 
«ay that I have seen the person referred to as having paid the $400.00. 
He is a poor man, with a wife and thirteen children, and pays the dis- 
tiller one dollar per day board. He did not want to talk about the 
matter, but finally made the following statement : He was appointed 
store-keeper and gauger in 1874, but has not been on duty all the time. 
He said he kept a memorandum of the amounts he paid, just to see if 
he was keeping his end up ; he says he has paid in all over $400.00 
(dollars), but that all of it was paid for poliiical purposes, with the ex- 
ception of two or three dollars paid for office expenses.- He states that 
he made all the payments of his own free will, and has no fault to find 
with any one ; with the exception of his last payment he has paid all in 
currency. The last time he signed a blank check, and placed it in the 
hands of the division deputy who broughtit to him, with the understand- 
ing that it was to be filled up for $104.00, the amount of his salary for 
June; but, as there was no money available for June salaries the check 
was filled up for $108.00, the amount of his salary for July, with his 
consent. 

The party who, it is said, has paid $900.00 I did not see, but I learned 
that he has been in the service a long time, and the probabilities are that 
whatever he has paid has been political contributions. 
Very respectfully, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 



No. 569. 



United States Internal Revenue. 

Greensboro^ N. 0., Oct. 31, 1881. 
Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Washington, B. C. : 
Sir : Referring to my letter of the 28th instant, reporting frauds dis- 
covered in the 6th dist., N. C, and the recovery of seventeen barrels 
of spirits stolen from the distillery warehouse of Q. D. Freeze, on Tues- 
day night, Oct. 25th, I have the honor to transmit herewith report of 
Revenue Agent McLeer this day rec'd, giving a detailed account of the 



THE .SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 527 

frauds discovered and of property seized. I also transmit copy of a 
certificate filed in the otfice of the collector of the Gth dist., on Oct. 27, 
1881, by W. A. Daniels, distiller, certifying that he had the keys of 
Freeze's distillery warehouse in his possession at the time said distil- 
lery warehouse was robbed of its contents. 
Very respectfully, 

A. H. BROOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 

Statesville, N. C, Oct. 27, 1881. 

I hereby certify that I liad the keys of distillery No. 1773, of Q. D. 

Freeze, and that when W. G. Bogle tax-paid two bbls. of spirits in 

warehouse of said distillery I retained said keys, and did not hand 

them to W. G. Bogle until the morning of the 26th of October, 1881, 



about 8 o'clock a. m. 

Witness : 

W. C. Morrison. 



W. A. DANIELS. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Statesville, N. C, Oct. 28, 1881. 

Col. A. H. Brooks, 

Revenue Agent, Greensboro\ N. C. 




pended in June last, and is still under suspension. At the time of our 
visit we met Mr. Freeze at the distillery. Upon examination we found 
that he had made one mash which was found in one of the stills. This 
Mr. Freeze at first claimed was for his hogs, but afterwards admitted 
that he had made a regular mash of two bushels of corn-meal to which 
he had added one-half a peck of malt. He said the regular mash was 
four bushels of corn-meal and one peck of malt. Tlie mash we found 
Mr. Freeze said he had made on Monday afternoon and put in the still 
Tuesday morning. I tasted the beer and found it sweet. Mr. Freeze 
said he intended starting the fires and running it oft" on Friday. All 
the tubs were turned bottom up, but when I turned some of them over 
they showed evidence of recent use. Freeze then pointed out the four 
tubs that the mash was made in which we found in the still. Mr. 
Crawford and I drove at once to Statesville, but Mr. Ooite, chief dep- 
uty coll. in charge, could not be found. We looked through States- 
ville for him, and finally went to his house, where I was told by a lady 
there that he had gone out hunting with Col. Allen, and would not re- 
turn until evening. Collector Mott was also absent from town. 

In the afternoon we again went to the distillery of Q. D. Freeze, 
this time accompanied by Gen'l Store-keeper and Ganger G. W. Sharp 
and upon examination found that the plug had been pulled off the dis- 
charge pipe of the still and the beer allowed to run out on the floor 
and through into the creek. Gen'l Store-keeper and Ganger Sharp, 
upon being asked his opinion, made the remark that if he had found 
such a state of aftairs he would report same to coll. office and recom- 
mend seizure of distillery and belongings. Deputy Collector Coite 
came to the hotel about 7 o'clock p. m., and Mr. Crawford and I went 



528 COLLECTION OF I^LTERNAL REVENUE IN 

with him to his office, where I made a verbal report to him of all that 
had taken place, and he decided to seize the distillery, with all -si^irits 
in the warehouse, in the morning- without delay. 

The next morning we found it rumored on the street that some par- 
ties had visited the distillery of Q. D. Freeze during the night and re- 
moved the stills and caps from the distillery and "also the whisky in 
the warehouse. On calling at the collector's office in relation to the 
matter we found Dep. Coll. Coite apparently ignorant of events that 
were said to have transpired during the night," and on that point we 
did not enlighten him. He said he was waiting for some one to come 
in that he could send out to make the seizure ; was also waiting for the 
arrival of a bill of sale that one VV, A. Daniels, a distiller near Freeze'g 
distillery, claimed he held, duly executed by Q. D. Freeze to him last 
June, covering all the whisky in the warehouse. Mr. Daniels seemed to 
be very much exercised about developments made at Freeze's distillerv. 
Deputy Collector Stockton reported to me that he had held a conver- 
sation with Mr. Daniels that morning, during which Mr. Daniels had 
remarked to the effect that the revenue officers had been to Freeze's 
distillery, found things wrong, and were going to seize everything, but 
that we— meaning himself and unknown party or parties— must get the 
best of them. Deputy Coll. Davis, in the office, also reported to me that 
during Tuesday afternoon, shortly after we left the collector's office, Mr. 
Daniels came to the office very much excited and wanted to know 
what was going to be done about the whisky in Freeze's warehouse, 
making the statement at the time that it belonged to him. 

Accompanied by Deputy Coll. Stockton, we" again visited the dis- 
tillery supposed to belong to Freeze to ascertain if the reports we 
had heard were true. We fonnd the stills and caps removed, leav- 
ing the worms in the tubs. On looking tlirough the cracks in the ware- 
house we found that the whisky had also been removed. Upon care- 
ful examination of the warehouse lock we tound it in the same condi- 
tion as ui)on our visit when accompanied by Storekeeper and Ganger 
Sharp, showing conclusively that the whisky had been removed by 
some one who had possession of the warehouse key. Upon further in- 
quiry on our return, we ascertained from Deputy Coll. Collyer that the 
key was in possession of G. W. Bogle, store-keeper and ganger, pre- 
vious to that day, and that his book showed that said key was deliv- 
ered to said Bogle about three weeks ago, but was returned by him 
that morning, Oct. 26th. G. W. Bogle was, at the date of procuring 
key and up to Oct. 2Gth, store- keeper and gauger at distillery of W. 
A. Daniels, ^ 1003. We visited Mr. Bogle at his distillery and asked 
him in relation to said key. He at tirst denied all knowledge of (it) to- 
me, saying that he had never had it in his possession. Upon asking 
how it happened that it was returned by him at the office that same- 
morning, he answered at once that he was mistaken in saying he never 
had had it, but only had it that once and under the following circum- 
stances : Mr. Daniels came to him that morning as he was about ready 
to start to his distillery and asked him if he was going to the collect- 
or's office before going out. Bogle answered he was not, but could if 
Daniels wished him to. Daniels then said he had tbe key to Freeze's 
distillery warehouse and asked Bogle to return them to the collector's 
office. Mr. Bogle at once complied with his request. Upon further 
questioning, Mr. Bogle further admitted that he had made two with- 
drawals during the last three weeks from Freeze's warehouse under 
direction of Mr. Daniels. Mr. Bogle said he asked Mr. Daniels if hft 
had the key. Mr. Daniels said yes. Mr. Daniels unlocked the ware,- 



THE SIXTH DLSTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 529 

liou.se for Mr. Bogle, and after withdrawal was made Mr. Daniels 
locked up the warehouse, retaining key in his possession. 1 directed 
D. Coll. Ooite to send for Store-keeper and (iauger Jiogle. lie at once 
did so and sent Storekeeper and (Tauger Sumin«;rs to take his place, 
I then directed Mr. Jiogle to come to the oflice, there confrontecl him 
with J)ep. Coll. Collyer in ])resence of Dep. Coll. Coite, chief in charge. 
I then asked Mr. Collyer who he gave the key to Freeze's warehouse 
to. He said Mr. IJogie. 1 asked him if he was sure of it. lie said yes, 
showing as evidence his book with memorandum that key was delivered 
to I>ogle. Mr. Bogle denied it entire, saying again that he never had 
the key until it was given him by Daniels that morning, ()(;t. 20th. I 
asked Bogle who had the key at the time he made the withdrawals for 
Daniels. He said that Mr. Daniels had it; that Mr. Daniels uidocked 
the door, and that after withdrawal Mr. Daniels locked the door and 
retained the key in his possession. I then said to Mr. Collyer you and 
Mr. Bogle differ very much in your statement as to who had possession 
of the warehouse key. Mr. Collyer still insisted that he gave it to 
Bogle. Deputy Coll. Coite then made the following suggestion to Mr, 
Collyer, saying that: "Mr. Collyer, don't you mean that you gave the 
key to Daniels for Mr. Bogle, thinking they were for Mr. B., as he was 
present at the time'? Did you not give it to Mr. Daniels, thinking he 
w^ould hand it to Mr. Bogle, and that it would be returned to the officers 
as soon as withdrawal was made ? You don't mean to say that yon 
gave it to Mr. Bogle, but that you gave it to Mr. Daniels ?" Mr. Collyer 
hesitated somewhat in replying, saying, " Yes, I think that was it. 
Yes, that was it." I then asked Mr. Collyer if it was such a common 
thing for him to give keys to distillers direct, that he was so un(;ertaiu 
in this case. He hesitated somewhat in ansvvering, but said, " No; but 
what Mr. Coite says about this case must be the way it happened." 
Mr. Bogle admitted to me that he told me a lie about the key at first, 
saying he was willing to tell a lie if not too big a one, to avoid being a 
witness or otherwise imi)licated in this case. I then sai<l to them, 
"Gentlemen, now let me see if I have the sense of your joint meaning, 
viz, that Mr. Daniels, a distiller, came to this office between two and. 
three weeks ago and got the key to the warehouse of Q. D. Freeze and 
retained it in his possession from that time until this mornin*'-, and that 
in the meantime the stills and all the whisky in Q. D. Freeze's ware- 
house have been stolen, and that this morning Mr. Daniels handed the 
key to Mr. Bojile wlio returned it to this office, and that it would ap- 
pear from this that in the tirst place Mr. Daniels was a messenger from 
Bogle, and that in the second place that Bogle was a messenger fatMi 
Daniels returning the key. Am I to uiulerstand you this way, genthi- 
men ?" They all acknowledged that my understanding was correcr. 

We began search for the missing stills and whisky at once, first get- 
ting out a warrant for arrest of Q. D. Freeze's, and a search warrant for 
the premises of W. A. Daniels near the distillery of Q. D. Freeze's. 
Deputy 13011. Stockton got out the search warrant at my direction, and 
accompanied us that afternoon to examine the buildings, but nothing 
was found that afternoon. As the case seemed to implicate several 
parties, including officers, I thought best you should be present, and 
accordingly telegraplied you to come to Statesville. The next morning, 
in your company, I drove to Freeze's distillery, and fouml at the distil- 
lery one J. C. Barclay, a bondsman of Q. D. Freeze's. Upon informa- 
tion ol)taine<l of him we returned to Statesville, got out another search 
warrant, and accompanied by Mr. Crawford and a store-keeper and 
ganger by name of T. A. Gill, returned to furtlier examine the build- 
S. Mis. IIG 34 



530 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

ings and ground of W. A. Daniels. By using iron rods in probing the 
ground in a freshly plowed field near the house, we were soon rewarded 
by finding the whisky buried in a gully running through the lot at vari- 
ous depths underground. We discovered there seventeen packages 
out of the nineteen that the warehouse books showed were in the ware- 
house. The seventeen packages contained seven hundred and thirty 
gallons of spirits. We procured teams and had the seventeen packages 
removed to Statesville and stored in a cellar used for such purposes 
under the collector's office. The same day the tax was ])aid on all the 
spirits stored in the two warehouses belonging to the two distilleries 
that were run in the name of W. A Daniels, viz., 64:6 and 1003. Said 
spirits were removed to Statesville and stored in the warehouse of 
Pinkus & Co. Soon after its arrival there we went in and caused its 
detention, having reason to believe that Daniels was the real owner of 
Freeze's distillery, and that Freeze was simply a figurehead. We feared 
a rescue of the spirits might be attempted 5 but up to the time of your 
leaving on the midnight train to return to Greensboro' nothing had 
X)eeu attempted. 

The next morning I went to the collector's office and directed Deputy 
Coll. Coite to seize the two distilleries of W. A. Daniels, No. 646 and 
1003, as well as the nine i)ackages of detained spirits in warehouse of 
Pinkus and Co., detained by us last night. He at once took steps to 
do as 1 requested, and seized the following property: 

6 copper stills, caps, piping, and fixtures. 

3 bbls. of spirits, (about 60 gallons.) 
1^ " " gin. 

I " " spirits, (about 10 gallons.) 

(The three and a half barrels of spirits, and one and a half barrels of 
gin were found in an outhouse in rear of dwelling-house on Daniel's 
I)remises near the distillery.) 

Ten bus. rye and fifteen bus. of meal in the distilleries, 480 gall's beer, 
60 gall's singlins destroyed. During the forenoon J. C. Barclay, the 
heretofore-mentioned bondsman of Q. D. Freeze's, came to my room and 
said he knew where Freeze's was and could produce him at any time. 
At my suggestion he went to Freeze's and advised him to surrender 
Mmself to the commissioner ; Freeze's did so, and is held in $250.00 bail 
for his appearance on the 28th day of November. The date was fixed 
at November 28th to give me time to work up further evidence against 
Daniels, and also to suit convenience of dist. att'y, who, I understand, 
wii'lJ l>e engaged at Asheville court until about that time. I then pro- 
ceeded to get out a warrant for the arrest of W. A. Daniels. 

In exammiug his house in Statesville for him we found the following 
l)i'operty : 

4 copper stills and fixtures complete. 

2 extra worms. 

1 pump and piping. 

3 separaters. 

Two of the above stills are evidently the ones stolen from Freeze's 
distillery, as one of them was wet inside and had meal sticking to the 
side, showing recent use. 

The above goods were seized by Dep. Coll. Coite at my suggestion. 

Accompanied by the deputy marshall, who had the warrant, we pro- 
ceeded on our search for W. A. Daniels during the afternoon, but did 
not succeed in finding him. 

Upon examining report of appraisal of the 17 p'k'g's of spirits found 
buried on the premises of W. A. Daniels, I found value placed at 20 1 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 531 

€ents per gallon above tax. I thought that too low according to pres- 
ent market value of tlie goods, and so told Mr. Coite. He insisted that 
it was a fair valuation, and was not inclined to have it changed. 1 did 
not argue the matter with him, but gave him to understand that I did 
not think it a fair valuation. When he furnished me a copy of appraise- 
ment, at my request, I found that appraisement had been changed to 
40 cents per gallon above tax, instead of 30c. The copy of said second 
appraisement is herein inclosed. After above developments, upon vis- 
iting the collector's office, we were shown by D. Coll. Coite a copy of a 
statement made by W. A. Daniels, evidently lor the purpose of clear- 
ing Store-keeper and Guager W. G. Bogle from complicity in above mat- 
ter. Said copy I herein inclose. 

I have no confidence whatever in W. G. Bogle as store-keeper and 
gauger, and believe he has been acting as a spy upon our movements 
In interests of W. A. Daniels, and would respectfully recommend his 
immediate removal. 

W. P. A. White, store-keeper and gauger at distillery ^ 646, of W. 
A. Daniels, is a brother-in-lavv of said Daniels. While 1 have no evi- 
dence of his complicity in helping to remove the whisky from Freeze's 
warehouse, yet, from remarks made by him, am led to believe that he' 
knew of its removal at the time, and also knew of its whereabouts. I 
would respectfully request also in his case immediate removal from 
duties as store-keeper and gauger. 

The witness to statement made by Daniels relating to key of ware- 
house of Q. D. Freeze's, herein inclosed, is also a brother-in-law of W. 
A. Daniels. 

Throughout above transactions I have received valuable information 
and aid from Store-keeper and Gauger T. A. Gill, now unassigned to 
duty. I believe him to be a faithful and efficient officer, and would 
respectfully recommend his immediate assignment to some distillery 
now in operation. 

Mr. Gill's name will again appear in a report I am about to make re- 
lating to bargains between the distillers and store-keepers and gangers 
of this district. By to-morrow morning I expect to have evidence upon 
which I can direct seizure of the teams that were used in removing 
spirits from Freeze's warehouse, if they are to be found. 
Very respectfullv, 

EDWARD McLEEE, 

Eev. AgH. 



No. 720. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Greensboro', IST. C, Jan. 18, 1882. 

Hon. Green B. Raum, 

Commissioner of Int. Rev., WasMngton, D. C: 
Sir : Referring to your letter of the 16th inst., initials O. F. D., Ch., 
and W. T. C, inquiring what has been done in the case of Q. D. Freeze 
and W. A. Daniels since your letter to me of the 11th inst., I have the 
honor to report that 1 have not received the letter referred to. There 
has been no further action taken since Daniels and Freeze were held for 
the action of the U. S. court. We have procured additional evidence 
against Daniels, and I am satisfied we shall be able to convict him. 
I have the honor to transmit herewith copy of form (117), on file in the 



532 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

U. S. attorney's office here, in regard to the seizure of nine packages of 
spirits removed Oct. 27 from W. A. Daniels' distillery warehouses, 
while we were eu gaged in digging up the 17 barrels of spirits stolen 
from Freeze's warehouse by Daniels on the night of Oct. 25th. The 
form (117) on file in the U. S. attorney's office is in Chief Deputy Coite's 
handwriting. I would especially call your attention to the pains taken 
to prepare the defense in this case. 
Very respectfully, 

A. H. BEOOKS, 

Revenue Agent. 



'^0. 922. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Greensboro' , N. (7., ^j?r. 24, 1882. 
Hon. Green B. Eaum, 

Commissioner of Int. Mev., Washington, D. C: 

Sir : Eeferring to the charges against Deputy Collector J. C. Sulli- 
van, 6th dist. N. C, preferred by one Jas. C. Miller, a distiller in said 
district, and which charges were referred to me for investigation under 
date of the 17th inst., I have the honor to report that the papers in the 
case, which are herewith returned, were received by me while attend- 
ing U. S. court at Statesville last week. The charges made by Miller 
are the same charges that were made by one John Shores, jr., and which 
were reported on by Eevenue Agent Harrison, under date of Jan. 24, 
'82. 

Mr. Sullivan's statement, under date of March 3d, explaining why 
Miller's bond was not forwarded by him is, I believe, correct, as well as 
his statement regarding the survey of Shores' distillery. 

In regard to his not sending a store keeper to Miller's distillery, I un- 
derstand that Mr. Miller insisted on Mr. Sullivan recommending the 
appointment and assignment to his distillery of a certain man, which 
Mr. Sullivan declined to do for the reason that several distillers had 
made application and were anxious to have the same man assigned to 
their distilleries, and it was generally understood that this man had 
agreed to divide his i)ay with the distiller at whose distillery he should 
be assigned to duty. 

I made inquiry of some good citizens of Yadkin County, who were 
attending TJ. S. court at Statesville as jurors, who know Jas. C. Miller, 
and they inform me that he is not a man worthy of belief, and has very 
little principle. 

It was in Miller's distillery warehouse that Eevenue Agent Harrison 
found three lewd women living, referred to in his report of Jan'y 24, 
1882, when he was investigating charges made against Sullivan by Jno. 
Shores, jr. 

The character and reputation of Jas. C. Miller who makes these 
charges against Sullivan are such as are, inmy opinion, will not justify 
further trouble and investigation. 
Verv respectfully, 

A. H. BEOOKS, 

Eevenue Agent. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 533 

^O. 91)3. 

United States Internal Eevenue, 

Greensboro\ N. C, May 25, 1882. 
A. H. Brooks, Esq., 

Revenue Agent : 

Sir : I have the honor to submit herewith reports on forms 19 on dis- 
tilleries recently visited by me in 6th district. 

It will be noticed that none of the distilleries visited are constructed 
as required by law and regulations. In almost every distillery I found 
the low-wine tubs set down in the ground so that top of tub would be 
about even with surface of the ground. Only a few of the cistern 
rooms were floored, and but two of them contained fixed cisterns. In 
most cases si)irits are run into packages placed in the cistern room, 
which packages are warehoused when tilled. No attention whatever is 
paid to the regulation requiring each day's product to be kept separate. 

The temperature and gravity of the beer is not taken and entered, 
and but one of the distilleries visited had supplied a saccharometer. 

The officers in charge keep such books as are kept by the distillers. 

JSTearly every package found in the warehouses had been previously 
used for same purpose, and almost every one of them bore old gaugers' 
marks and brands. 

In my opinion, a more rigid compliance to the requirements of the 
regulations should be exacted, and is absolutely essential to the proper 
collection of the revenue. 
Very respectfully, 

J. E. HETHERIISGTOK 



The following papers were offered in evidence by Mr. Pool in behal 
of Dr. Mott: 

EXHIBITS. 

No. 1. — Statement slioiving condition of the office of J. J. Mott, collector 
6th district of North Carolina, at the close of business hours on the 
3dth day of October, 1874. Examined by J. C. Wheeler. 

(Table accompanying, etc). 

Considerable of the amount held as collectible is not really collectible, 
and applications for the abatement of such taxes are to be made at 
once, and efforts made to collect all the balance. 

The discrepancies occuiring in the stamp accounts, as enumerated 
in this report, were corrected in the collector's October reports by his 
taking credit for excesses, and depositing the net deficiency, viz. 
$2,978.23. These errors are attributable to the fact that the collector 
has not had a competent clerk for some time past, and the records have 
not been properly kept up. 

I have never had specific instructions relative to the manner of ad- 
justing such discrepancies, and am not certain that I am fully war- 
ranted in authorizing collectors to take credit for excesses, and would 
be pleased to receive information on this subject. The collector, in this 
instance should, I think, be allowed to make his reports, as above 
mentioned, for October, as it is my firm belief that his accounts be- 



534 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

came mixed up through no direct fault of his, and that the full amount 
of stamps disposed of will have been accounted for in this way, as the 
differences have been accumulating ever since the examination of his 
office in January last. 

Very respectfully, 

JAS. C. WHEELEE, 

Special CJerh. 



JSlo. 2.^State7nent shotving condition of the office of J. J. Mott, collector of 
6th district of North Carolina^ at the close of business hours on the IWi 
of October^ 1875. Examined hy Jas. C. Wheeler. 

(Table accompanying, etc.) 

Much work has been done on the old lists in the past six or eight 
months, and many of the old taxes disposed of, ijayment in many cases 
have been made by Collector Mott — when receipts given by John A» 
Eamsey, a former deputy of his — were found. It is believed these taxes 
have never been reported or paid by said deputy, and a civil suit for 
the recovery of the same is about to be brought by the collector against 
said Eamsey. 

The lists now being carrie'd are in a condition to be soon disi)Osed of 
by abatements or collections. 

Of the $1,493.11 held as collectible, it is thought about $1,000 will be 
collected during the present month. 

The office affairs are in a good condition. 
Very respectfully, 

JAS. 0. WHEELEE, 

Revenue Agent. 



No. 4. — Statement showing condition of the office of J. J. Mott, collector 
f)th district of North Carolina, at the close of business hours on the Mh 
day of April, 1877. Examined by Jas. C. Wheeler. 

(Table accompanying, etc.) 

The force of special deputy collectors allowed for this district had all 
been appointed previous to my examination of the office. The men em- 
ployed seem to have been selected with a view to securing the suppres- 
sion of frauds existing in this district. They were out on a raid against 
illicit distilleries. It is thought that the property which has already 
been seized by them will net the government more than the expense 
incurred in their employment. 

There is a manifest desire on the part of Collector Mott and his dep- 
uties to break up the fraud and secure the collection of the revenue in his 
district. The collector thinks, however, that the entire force now em- 
ployed, including the special deputies, will be needed constantly to do 
that effectually — especially if the use of troops is to be dispensed with. 

The inside workings of the office are first rate, and no complaints can 
be made in relation thereto. 



THE SIXTH DISTRrCT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 535 

No. 5. — Stdtcment slwwing condition of office of J. J. Mott, collector (Hh 
(listrict of North (Jaroiina, at the close of business hours on the 12th of 
November^ 1877. Examined by Jas. C. Wheeler. 

(Table accompanying, etc.) 

Owinj4' to tlie large number of fruit di.stilleries in this district, the 
clerical work in the office is very heavy. The ottice is in good condi- 
tion, and the employes, so far as 1 saw. are competent and energetic. 
The large extent of territory comprising the district and its mountain- 
ous nature, requires a good force of em[)loyes to prevent frauds, and 
give the business ])roper su])ervision — 1 think the collector is using his 
best endeavors to keep his district in good condition. 



No. 7. — Statement showinf) condition of office of J. J. Mott, collector of 
the (Wi district of North Carolina, at the close of business hours on the 
\)fh of Sept., 1878. Examined by J. H. Hale, rev. arft. 

(Table acconipan.uug, etc.) 

REMARKS. 

Every notable merit or deficiency observed by the examining officer 

should be reported. 

Sixth District, IST. C. 

I found the stamp account and the sales record in very good shape. 
The same cannot be said, however, of the lists, the unsatisfactory con- 
dition of which will be seen by reference to the special report herewith. 
I do not know that it is possible to collect, in all cases, the class of as- 
sessments shown, which are mainly against distillers. But this, if true, 
ought not to entirely excuse the officers from taking the proper steps to 
dispose of them by causing claims to be prepared for the abatement of 
erroneous assessments, and by referring the remainder to the dist. at- 
torney for his action. 

Another deficiency observed by me is the very general neglect to col- 
lect penalty and interest on assessed taxes when not paid within 
the prescribed time. The reason given me was that it is almost an im- 
possibility to collect the bare amounts assessed, and to add penalties 
thereto would, in most instances, prevent the collection of the tax. This 
may be true, as to this section of the country, but the law seems to al- 
low no discretion whatever to the collector in such cases. 

I was very favorably impressed with Collector Mott, and regard him 
as the proper person to occui)y that position in a district so peculiar, in 
many respects, as this. He is very earnest in his desire to break u]) the 
illicit distillation of spirits, and almost his entire time is given to that 
work. If it is possible to excuse the shortcomings of officers, in com- 
paratively minor matters, I think that this is such a case, and there- 
fore I do not grade the office as low as I should otherwise do. 



536 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

jVo. 9. — Statement sliowing condition of the office of^ J. J. 3Iott, collector 
6tli district of North Carolina, at the close of business hours on the Sth 
day of Fehruary, 1879. Examined by Ghas. P. Broivn. 

(Table accompaiiyiug, etc.) 

REMARKS. 

Every notable merit or deflcieucy observed by the examining officer 

should be reported. 

The alphabetical list of special taxes is written up from the daily rec- 
ord at end of month. January, 1879, sales not entered. 

The ledger account of stamps sold to tob. m'fr's is made up at end of 
month. January, 1879, entries not yet made. The entries are made 
continuously^ without leaving any space at end of month, or footing 
sales for each month. 

The record now in use by the collector is suitable, and a new one will 
not be needed until this one is filled. 

Bonds are informal in that they do not in all cases have the Christian 
names of signers written in full in the body of the bond — and so signed 
thereto — and in a good many cases the residence of signers is not 
stated. 

Some attention has been given to the collection of penalties and in- 
terest on taxes in the last two months. 

Office hours are from 9 a. m. until dark, and some of the clerks do 
considerable work at night. Eemittances to the depository are made 
in even thousands. The trains leave the station at 2 p. m., and cash to 
go away has to be made up early in the day, and money coming in 
later often makes over $1,000 on hand at close of business. 

As the collector has only a fairly secure safe, and burglaries are fre- 
queut, it seems to me he should be authorized to send all his money on 
hand at the hour the remittance is made up. 

The allowance for office rent, $100.00, is not enough to secure such ac- 
commodations as* the office should have. 

GENERAL SUMMARY. 

I am of the opinion that all the material interests of the government 
are well looked after in this district. Collector Mott seems to me to be 
just the man required for such a district as this. 

The office accommodations are not good by any means, and the office 
is not tidy or orderly. In a more commodious and convenient office, 
with good desks and places for books, blanks, and files, this would be 
undoubtedly improved, and with present accommodations should be 
improved. 

I think Collector Mott's management of the outside affairs of his dis- 
trict, as I understand it, admirable. 

Grade of office, as per scale of merit, No. 2. 

EespectfuUy submitted. 

CHAS. P. BROWN, Agent. 

Statesville, Feb. 9, '79. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 537 

No. L'O. 

Table accoinpanyinjj;- the original Form B, for quarter ending- June 30, 

1879. 

Remarlcs of the inspecting officer. 

Deputy G. W. Williams answered all questions relating to tlie duties 
of a division deputy in liis division. Is an efficient and popular officer. 
Has the counties of Jiunconibe, Henderson, Transylvania, Haywood, 
and Madison. 

Dep'y F. P. Axley also has a large division, composed of the counties 
of Cherokee, Graham, Swaine, Clay, Macon, and Jackson, and has 
shown considerable impovement in his familiarity with the int. rev. 
regulations since last examination. 

Dep't M. W. Jewett, assigned tojGaston and Cleveland Co's. Is an 
efficient, capable, and honest oflticer. Has about 40 bonded distilleries 
to look after in his division. 

Dep'y J. A. Lillinglin lias the division composed of Polk, Rutherford, 
and McDowell Counties. Is an active and efficient officer in the discharge 
of the regular duties of his division, and has been most energetic in 
breaking up illicit distilleries and trying to prevent fraud in his division. 

Dep'y W. J,Baileyhasthedivisioncomi)osedof Union, Mecklenburgh, 
Cabarrus, and Kowan, has become familiar with the duties by long ex- 
perience, and makes a good officer. 

Dep'y J. Q. A. Bryan has the division composed of the counties of 
Alleghany, Ashe, Watawga, Yancy, and Mitchell, in which there are 
about 150 fruit distilleries. Like Deputy Bailey he has had much expe- 
rience, and is an excellent officer. Has been very successful in obtain- 
ing information against illicit distillers wherever he has been assigned. 

Dep'y J. C. Sullivan has been apjjointed during the quarter, from 
position of st'k. and g., is making a very good division deputy. 

Dep'y W. H. Hobson has division composed of the counties of Burke 
and Caldwell. Is an active and faithful officer in a division which is 
hard to control. 

Deputy A. B. Gillespie is an honest, capable, and efficient officer ; 
has a knowledge of his duties which he has acquired by study and ex- 
perience. 

I am constrained to add in respect to the sobriety of the deputy col- 
lectors, and officers generally of the district, that I do not know of one 
addicted to intemperate habits. It is a rule of the collectors to dis- 
charge any employe for drinking, and it has become so well established 
that it is rarely violated. 
Very respectfully, 

W. H. CHAPMAN, 

Rev. AgH. 

Note A. 

Answer to question 14 (Form B). — Illicit distillers in Swain and 
Graham Counties. Have used all means and made every effort to suj)- 
press them at my command. Are situated in remote places in the 
mountains, and it is difficult to get guides. 

F. P. AXLEY, 
B. Coll. 



538 collection of internal revenue in 

United States Internal Eevenue, Dep'y Collector's Office 
6th District, North Carolina. 

Note B. 

Answers to questions 13 (Do jou know of or have you reason to sus- 
pect the perpetration of frauds in the manufacture or sale of spirits,, 
malt liquors, tobacco, or cigars in your division ?) and 14 on Form B. 



Statesville, N. C, July 4, 1879. 

Col. Wm. H. Chapman, 

U. 8. Int. Revenue Agent : 

Sir: There have been and no doubt are now in the counties of Al- 
leghany and Ashe illicit whisky distilleries in operation. They are 
not operated constantly, but occasionally, and at different points. In 
the eastern end of Alleghany County, near the Virginia line, two dis- 
tilleries have been operated, and one of them is said to be in operation 
now. Warrants are in the hands of the deputy marshal for their ar- 
rest. This distillery is being operated by Gilbert Edwards and Phelix 
Edwards. There is another distillery operated in the vicinity of Laurel 
Springs, Ashe County, by a notorious set of men by the name of Woody } 
and on Horse Creek, albout 10 miles north of Jefferson, is another, 
operated occasionally by a man by the name of J. Miller, and farther 
north, near the Pond Mountain, in the roughest portion of the county, 
there are others operated, but the parties I do not know^ ; but will as- 
certain their names soon, and take steps to have them brought to justice. 

These distilleries cannot be seized without a small force. One or 
two men would be resisted,. in my opinion. I am also informed that 
whisky and tobacco is being transported from this State by wagons 
and on foot to Va. ; but I am not able to give the names of the parties 
thus engaged, but hope to overtake them soon. Any information that 
I may receive in the future touching those frauds will be promptly re- 
ported. 

Respectfully, 

J. Q. A. BRYAN, 

Deputy GoU. 

Note C. 

In the South Mountains of Burke County, I believe there are a good 
many illicit distilleries now running. We captured and destroyed last 
month 6 or 8 of them. I have information that there is also 8 or 10 in 
Caldwell County, which we hope to be able to attend to at an early 
day. 

Yerv respectfully, 

W. H. HOBSON, 
B. Coll. 8th JDiv. of 6th Bis. N. G. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 53^ 

No. 5. 

United States Internal Eevenue, 

Movfjanton, Sept. 20th, 1877. 

(Table accompanying the original.) 

In reply to question No. 4 (Form C, report of an inspection of officers 
in the Gtli district of N. C, 27tb Sept., 1877), " Do you ever gauge^ 
mark, and stamp casks in advance of their being filled f 

Eelative to gauging, I would say, that on the day of gauging spirits 
for entry into warehouse, I first weigh the spirits in the cisterns, cor. 
val. of same; then I gauge the barrels, brand and affix the D. W. 
stamp, and immediately thereafter 1 fill such barrel out of the cistern in 
which the sp'ts have been weighed, &c. 

H. W. MOOEE. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Morganton, N. C, Sept. 2()th, 1877. 
Sir : In reply to question No. 19 (Form 0), " Do you know or sus- 
pect the perpetration of frauds in the manufacture or sale of spirits in 
your division ?" 

We would state that we hear frequently of illicit distilling and traffic 
in whisky, and have reported the same to the collector from time to 
time, an/l shall continue to do so whenever any information comes to 
us. The section where we reside is known to be infested by violators of 
the law, but they are naturally wary, and avoid us as nuich as possible. 
Eespectfully, 

E. A. COBB. 
H. W. MOOEE, 
JOHN CAESON. 
C. 0. JONES. 
J. E. BALLEW. 



United States Internal Eevenue. 
DEP'y Collector's Office, District, N. C, 

Sepfr27th, 1877. 

Major Jacob Wagner : 

Dear Sir : In answer to question 19 I have to say, I have no per- 
sonal knowledge of any blockading going on, but have reason to be- 
lieve there is some illicit distilling going on in Wilkes County on Hunt- 
ing Creek. I heard a distiller say the other day he was satisfied there 
was 20 illicit whisky distilleries going on in four miles of his house. I 
am satisfied there is much less going on now than was a few months 
ago, and unhesitatingly say I believe the collector has done all in his 
l^ower to suppress it. 
Eespectfully, 

C. S. COOK, S. and G. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

Se2)t. 27th, 1877. 
Maj. Jacob Wagner — to question 19. 

Sir: I have reason to believe that there is violations of the int. rev- 



540 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

€nue in my county, Wilkes, by a number of persons in the distillation 
of wliisky. There has (been) great efforts made by the collector, Dr. 
Mott, to suppress it, but owing to the roughness of the country he has 
been unable to do so, but has suppressed a lai^ge number of them. I 
have no personal knowledge of the facts of the immediate location of 
the distilleries. 

Respectfully, 

J. B. SIMONTON, 

Stor^k. and Ganger. 



REMARKS OF THE INSPECTING OFFICER. 

The illiterate character of the population, and the rugged character 
€f the country, renders it difficult for Collector Mott to secure the serv- 
ices of gaugers fully competent, and possessing the highest qualifica- 
tions at all times, but the officers herein embraced are generally well 
informed as to their duties, and appear to be a good class of men. 
There are none among them whom I would reject, as far my knowledge 
goes. 

JACOB WAGNEE, 



(Tabular statements accompanying the originals.] 



Revenue Agent. 



No. 6. 

United States Internal Eevenue, 

Asheville, N. C, Nov. 8th, 1877. 

(Table accompanying the original.) 

Sir : In answer to question No. 19, I would state that I have heard 
of illicit distilling going on in the State of Georgia near where I am 
assigned to duty. It is in the counties bordering on the N. C. and 
Georgia lines. The distillery to which I am assigned to duty is near 
the Georgia line. 

Eespectfullj^, 

G. W. CANNON, 

U. 8. Ganger and SfJc'r. 
Mr. Jacob Wagner, 

U. 8. Eev. Agent. 



United States Internal Eevenue, 

AsJieville, Nov. 9th, 1877. 
No. 11. — State proof galls, in each warehouse under your charge at 
this date, Nov. 8th. 

No. 13. — How many withdrawals made in last month 1 
Dear Sir : In answer to above inquiries, I have the pleasure of 
making the following statement : 

I, W. H., 652 (N. Hoffman & Co.), 869 gal's ; 653 (Wesley Walker), 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 541 

128 gal's; 657 (F. A. M. Boyd), 334 gal's; in 20 old, No. — (Moore & 
Chedester), 580 gals. These are all proof gallons. 

Withdrawn in past month from W. H., G52 (IST. H. Hoffman & Co.), one 
(1) package; from W. H., 653 (,Wesley Walker), one (1) package. 

Of my own knowledge, am not cognizant of any violations of the 
revenue laws, especially illicit distilling; but am of opinion that it 
exists nevertheless. It is the general complaint of bonded distillers 
that they cannot carry on their business, because of the competition 
in the market by illicit manufacturers and trafhcers. 
I am, with respect, your ob'd't servant, 

0. W. EVE, 
GenH SfWer and Gauger. 
Jacob Wagner, Esq., 

TJ. S. Int. Revenue Agt., Greenshoro\ N. G. 

In answer to question 19, I will state that I have been told by the 
most reliable citizens of Macon County that tliere is a delegation of 
illicit dealers from Eaburn County, Georgia, adjoining State and 
county, headed generally by one notorious Eugene Beck, who defies all 
officers. State or National. The citizens of the above-named county 
can't run a registered distillery for fear of these blockaders. There was 
bonded men in the county that was notified that they was in danger to 
attempt to run a registered distillery, in consequence of which said 
parties declined to operate, leaving Macon County without a govern- 
ment distillery. I have heard of other depredations in Graham and 
other western counties, but heard no names. 

GEOEGE H. SMATHERS, 

U. S. Gauger. 

ASHEVILLE, N. C, Nov, 8, 1877. 



United States Internal Revenue, 

Gharlotte, N. (7., Dec. 4, 1877. 
Sir : In answer to question No. 19, Form C, I would state that I have 
reason to believe that illicit spirits are brought from Wilkes County by 
a man named Bell, and sold by him in small quantities, in the woods 
on the outskirts- of Charlotte, the empty casks being then hauled 
back by him to Wilkes County and refilled. He comes at irregular in- 
tervals, generally with one wagon, containing from one to four barrels. 
I have watched for this party, and shall continue to do so. 

Very respectfully, 

"^ ^ E. F. DAVIDSON, 

U. S. Gauger, Qth Dist. N. C. 
To Jacob Wagner, 

Revenue Agent. 



REMARKS of THE INSPECTING OFFICER. 

J. W. Cannon, gauger and store-keeper. Qualifications, information of 
law and regulations, efficiency and knowledge of duties, fair. Standing, 
morals and character good. 

P. H. Kilpatrick, gauger and store-keeper, not assigned. Information 
as to law and regulations indifferent. Qualifications as a fruit-brandy 
gauger, fair. Character, good. 



542 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

C. W. Eve, general store-keeper. Is well informed lu Iiis duties and 
efficient. His standing, morals, and cliaracter are good. 

G. H. Smatliers, ganger. Has been employed in gauging frnit-brandy 
exclusively. His qualitications are indiHerent, wliile he appears to be 
fairly informed as to his duties. His character and reputation are good. 

G. W. Shar])e, store-keeper and ganger. Has a very fair knowledge 
of his duties, and the law and regulations. The requirements of the 
latter are complied with at the distillery. His qualitications, standing 
morals, and reinitation are good. 

E. B. Drake, general store-keeper. Is a man of excellent standing, 
and character, and ftiir qualifications, but is not very neat in the pre- 
paration of his papers. 

M. A. White, general store-keeper. Has charge of a large number of 
distilleries under suspension, the warehouses of which contain all, more 
or less, spirits. Mr. White is an efficient and industrious officer, whose 
merits in this respect exceed his qualifications ; whicli, however, are 
lair. His standing ^ud reputation are good. 

E. F. Davidson, ganger. Has been employed on fruit-brandy only. 
His exceeding nervousness is an objection to him, rendering it almost 
impossible for him to write. His qualifications are indifferent. Stand- 
ing, morals, and character good. 

JACOB WAGNER, 

Revenue Agent. 



I 



No. 7. 

(Table accompanying the original Form B.) 

Question No. 14. (Eeport of inspection of officers in 0th district. State 
of North Carolina, Sth day of No\ 'r, 1877.) 

Are tliere any illicit stills operated in your division ? If so, state 
their location, and give particulars of your efforts to suppress them. 

There are some illicit distilleries in my division, on the line of South 
Carolina, in Transylvania Co. 

I am now laying the foundation for a raid to be made upon these dis- 
tillers by gathering all the information I can procure as to locality, &c., 
it being invpossible to take any active steps towards subduing these 
operations without a large force. 

M. W. JEWETT, 

Deputy Coll. 

Answer to question 14. 

There is a great improvement in the counties of Cleveland, Polk, and 
llutherford, which forms the 7th division in the 6th dist. of N. C. I 
have no knowledge of any illicit distilling going on, and am satisfied 
that there has been less than at any time since the surrender. The ap- 
pointment of special deputies, has, I think, had a good influence. I 
can give no correct idea of what will be done when the lu-eseut crop of 
corn is gathered, but am imjiressed that there will be less illicit traffic 
than has been usual. 

J. B. EAYES, 
Be)}. Coll, 7th Blv., 6th Dist. N'. C. 

Nov. 12, 1877. 



the 8ixtii district of north carolina. 543 

United States Internal Revenue, 

iStatcsville, Nov. IWh, 1877. 
Sir: 111 answer to <iiiestion 5tli, on Foini J] (Are you familiar wiili 
the books required to he kept by tlie various mamifacturers and deal- 
•crs required to kee]) books ?) 1 would state that I have been in the 
serviee but a few days, and am nuiking myself acquainted with the 
various details of my duties as fast Ji« possible, 
liespeetfully, 

FRANK DAVIS. 
Maj. JACOii Wagner, 

U. S. Revenue Agent. 



remarks by the inspecting officer. 

Wm. J. Coite, deiuity collector, in charge of a division comj^osed of 
■Charlotte City, and county of Meck]enl)urgh, but resides in Statesville, 
in Iredell County. He has l>een long in service, and is an efficient and 
capable officer. A visit to his division shows several irregularities in 
the cigar factories, and among the retail and wholesale liquor dealers, 
some of which have vsince been remedied. Mendall & Co., cigar 
manufacturers, keep their stamped and unstamped goods in the same 
room, only a rail intervening, and are not sup])lied with the regula- 
tions. J. W. Hubbard & Co., have no regulati«ms, and have not regis- 
tered the names of tlieir cigar-makers. John M. Morrison Avas whole- 
saling spirits under a retail si)ecial tax, and Miller & Leak, tobacco 
manufacturers, are not supplied with the regulations. 

jNI. W. Jewett, deputy collector 9th division, comjiosed of Haywood, 
Jackson, and Transylvania Counties, in which the fruit distilling sea- 
son is over, leaving but little work in the division, besides that incident 
to the single grain distilling it contains. Mr. Jewett is an officer of 
fairqualifi-cations and good character, while his knowledge of the law 
and regulations is not as thorough as might be. 

C W. Williams, deputy collector 8th division, composed ol Madison, 
Buncombe, and Henderson, is a man well suited for the class of work 
in his division, while he is not as thoroughly educated and acquainted 
with the law and regulations as he should be to make a first-class of- 
ficer. 

Much of his duties pertains to illicit distilling. His standing, char- 
acter, and morals are good. 

John B. Eaves, deputy collector 7th division, composed of Polk, 
liutherford, and Cleveland Counties, has very little duty except such 
as pertains to the illicit distilling, which is very prevalent in his division. 
His territory is contiguous, and not very extensive, and he should be 
able to suppress it with the aid he can occasionally secure from the 
raiding force allowed the collector. He is capable of performing the 
usual cluties of a deputy collector, is a man of good standing and char- 
acter, but I do not consider him very active or efficient. 

G. H. Brown, deputy collector, has charge of the sale of stamps in 
the collector's office, and is an honest, intelligent, and efficient cashier 
and clerk, but his knowledge of the general duties of a deputy collector 
are limited, as well as his information in the law and regulations. His 
moral character and standing are good. 

C. F. Collier, cl'k, is on duty In collector's office. He was appoiuted 
on the 1st of October last, and is consequently inexperienced and not 



544 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

well informed. His qualifications are ordinary, and I am not impressed 
with the opinion that he will make a good clerk. His character and 
standing are good. 

J. Frank Davis, clerk, was also recently appointed, is inexperienced^ 
but possessed of fair qualifications. His standing, character, and habits 
are good. 

A. D. Cowles, special deputy collector, was removed from office the 
day after my inspection on account of drunkenness. 

JACOB WAGNEE, 

Revenue Agent. 

Note. — There were several of the deputy collectors in this district 
absent on raiding duty, whom I could not see for the purpose of in- 
specting. 



No. 21. 



Report B of an inspection of officers in Qth N. C. collection district, Dec. 

31, '79. 

(Tabular statement accompanying the original.) 

Foot-note. — The deputy collectors in this dist. can be characterized 
for sobriety, and for attention to duty I dare say will compare favorably 
with any in the service. 

W. H. CHAPMAN, 

Revenue AgH. 



REMARKS BY THE INSPECTINa OFFICER. 

Deputy CoU'r Bryan examined Sept. 12th at Morganton. 

Deputy Devine examined Oct. 29th at Statesville, is well informed^ 
answered the gen'l and all questions relating to special taxes, distilled 
spirits, tob. factories, and cigars, promptly and satisfactorily. I should 
rate him to be a good officer, one of the best in the dist. 

Deputy Collector Bailey examined Oct. 30th, at Statesville, is well 
informed in the duties pertaining to his division. The questions were 
not answered so promptly as might be, but embarrassment seemed an 
impediment. I should rate him as a good officer. 

Deputy Williams answered questions relating to special taxes, and is 
right well informed as to the duties to be performed in his own divis- 
ion. Is an active officer and takes interest in performing his duties. 

Deputy Axley is in a very inaccessible portion of the dist. aod sur- 
rounded with difficulties. Is not so well posted in the general duties 
as he might be, but probably is as useful a man for the position as 
could be found. 

Dep'ty CoU'r Jewett answered all questions pertaining to the duties 
of deputy collector in his division. Has been a deputy for some time, 
and is well posted. 

Dep'ty Coll'r J. B. Eaves, I found well informed as to the duties of a 
dep'ty coll'r ; is quite popular in his division ; has been recently elected 
to the State senate ; an uncommon occurrence in this dist. for one who 
is both a Eepublican and a revenue officer. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 545 

Deputy Coll'r Gillespie is a well informed, active, and efficient officer. 
Respectfully submitted by 

W. H. CHAPMAN, 

Bev. Agt. 



No. 1. 

United States Internal Revenue, 

StatesviUe, X. 0., April 26, 18S0. 
Sir : Having- supervised the inspection of the distillers and exami- 
nation of the officers, found both on and off" duty for that section of 
Gaston County, 0th district of North Carolina assigned me, I have to 
report that the work has been completed and your instructions carried 

out. 

Upon an examination of the distilleries visited, it was found that they 
are all constructed very much after the same plan, and that the officers 
are all doing business 'much after the local ])revailing custom; that 
where an error was discovered at one it was generally discovered at 
the others, with an occasional modification. 

The officers, as a class, were found to be plain, unassuming natives, 
with few of the early advantages of education, but possessing a desire 
to be instructed in all that pertain to their duties. They have a fair 
mechanical knowledge of gauging, but appear to know but little of tlie 
theoretical part. A want of education in many instances, and especi- 
ally a want of knowledge of decimal fractions, rendered it difficult to 
impart a proper understanding of a correction to volume. 

No discovery was made leading to the supposition that willful neglect 
or fraud existed upon the part of the offisers ; where errors were found 
they appeared to be more that of judgment than of intentional wrong. 
While it is true that a few of the officers examined cannot be regarded 
as first class, yet with a practical application of the instructions given 
them, it is believed that they may be generally relied upon to do the 
work at these small distilleries. As the distilleries themselves appear to 
be a compromise between a legal and illegal process, so it may, upon 
these general principles, be extended to the officers. 

The discrepancies found to exist in the proof as established by the 
original, and determined by a regauge, may be traced to tlie following 

causes : 

1st. The reuse of old casks and the soaking of the same in water be- 
fore being filled. 

2d. Reading the indication by taking the line above or nearest the 
surfa(;e of the spirits. 

3rd. Filling with spirits at a higher \n^oot' than is marked on the cask 
in order to compensate for the water absorbed. 

4th. The use of hard water and the necessarily slow and imperfect 
assimilation of the same with the spirits. 

The differences in the wine-gallon gauge may be briefly referred to 

as — 

Ist. The erroneous manner in which they are in the habit of touching 
the extreme point of the mean diameter slide in obtaining the bung 
diameter. 

2nd. In some instances the officers ascertain the head diameter with 

S. Mis. 116 35 



546 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

the rod ])erpendicular instead of tlie diagonal inclination of the same 
across the head. 

The following irrefularities were noted and believed to be general,! 
and are reported for yonr information. I 

The faucets and openings to the receiving- cistern are not locked; 
the i)ipes do not appear, with one exception, to have been painted, but 
few of the furnace-doors are capable of being locked; the distiller's 
books and reports generally written by the of&cers on duty ; but few of 
the gangers have the prescribed wantage rod; none of the officers 
have the advanced sheets of the new capacity tables ; there is no sac- 
charometers in use, and hence the temperature and gravity of the beer 
is not taken and recorded as the regulatious direct; there is no flooring" 
to the cistern-rooms, and it is the custom to weigh the material «se<? 
each day, and not the amount received upon the distillery premises. 

At distillery No. 1327, owned by G. W. Gambles, it was noticed that 
the cistern-room had a large crack in it, through which spirits can be 
extracted while in flow from the pipes to the cisterns ; that the ware- 
house had openings, between the plank of which it is constructed, 
];irge enough to insert an auger, and that the casks were in close con- 
tact with the walls; that the large wantage in one cask gauged, with a 
small hole in it, had a suspicious appearance, all of which should be 
corrected. The thermometer at this distillery was condemned by 
Ganger Blackstone, and it sliould be substituted. 

At the distillery of A. M. Eliyne, No. 1202, it was noticed that many 
of the warehouse stamps had not been varnished; that one cask had 
been warehoused with old marks and brands on the same, and thai no 
new marks had been placed thereon by the ganger; and that on an- 
other cask found in warehouse with new wharehouse stamps, the officer 
had failed to totally destroy the rectified stamp, which was still re- 
maining on the head of the same. 

At the distillery of D. W. Mitchem the officer had not been in the 
habit of varnishing the warehouse stamps when affixed. 

Ganger Beasley, visiting the distillery of H. F. Forbes, No. 1301, 
found the store-keeper and ganger, G. W. Setzer, absent. He left the 
distillery on the 21st inst., to be absent until the 26th inst., leaving 
the keys in the possession of a man designated, as was understood by 
the olficer himself, and without the knowledge, so far as could be as- 
certained, of the collector. The books had not been written up from 
the date when the officer left to the date of Ganger Beasley's visit. 

At the distillery of E. E. Sumney, No. 1383, the top of the separator 
was found broken off, and it had been in this condition about three 
weeks. 

I would suggest a more frequent change of the store-keepers and 
gangers from one distillery to another. The intimacy that is sure to 
be established between the officer and distiller can only be broken in 
rhis way, and in this district it is thought that it would work bene- 
ficially. 

As the lawful custodian of the keys, it appears that some of the offi- 
cers have not heretofore appreciated the responsibility of retaining 
them in their possession. This may, in part, account for the manner 
in which dui)licate keys were made in some sections of the district, of 
which mention was made in j)assiug. 

The regular visits of Deputy Collector Jewett appear to have been 
made at all of the distilleries visited in his division, and he is regarded 
a.> a good officer and a faithful worker. 

For the faithful and cheerful manuer in which Gangers Beasley, 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



547 



Blackstone, and Randall discharged their duties in connection with the 
investigation too much cannot be said in their praise. For the actual 
discrepancies discovered between the original and regauge 1 refer you 
to their reports on form 89, and as to the qualifications of the officers 
examined by them to their special report, herewith inclosed and sug- 
gested as a part of this report. 
Very respectfully, 

E. LATHAM, 
Revenue Agent. 
Horace Kellogg, Esq., 

Revenue Agent in Charge., Statesville, North Carolina. 



A. — Eeport of examination of gangers and store-keepers in the 6th district ofN. Carolina, made 
by W. M. Randall, V. S. ganger, April, 1880. 



Name. 



J. W. Brown 

M. A. Holland 

Geo. W McKee.. 
James R. Lewis ... 

S. M. Morris 

F. C Ferguson 

W. B. Lay 

W. n. Kliyne 

A. Groner 

S. P. Pasour 

G. N. McLaughlin 
G. F. Flowers .... 



Kesidence. 



How long in 
service ? 



Charlotte 1 year . 

Dallas I 1 year . 

Dallas I 3 years 

Dallas I 1 year . 

Dallas ' 1 year . 

Dallas 3 years 

Gastonia 15mo's. 

Gaston Co I 15 mo . . 

Dallas Co 16 " .. 



.52 , Gaston Co ... . 6 
39 ! Dallas 5 

57 " .! 7 



Is he familiar 
with the du- 
ties of his 
office? 



Fair k n o w 1- 
edge. 

Yes 

Yes 

Fair k no w 1- 
edge. 



Not very good. 

Fair knowl- 
edge. 

Not very good 



Is he attentive 
to duty' ? 



Not on duty. 
Yes. 
Seems to be. 



Name. 


Education. 


What aie his per- 
sonal habits 1 


What was his mili- 
tary service ? 


a,-. 

« £ 
sua 

OS'S 

g-= 


o » 

09 


J W Brown 




Good 


Confederate 

None 

Confederate 


No.... 


Yes. 


M A Holland 


Fair to good 






Geo W ISIcKee 
























.1 




Confederate 




W. B Lav 








W. H. Khyne 






Confederate 






Fair 






S. P. Pasour 






G. N. McLaughlin 

G F Flowers 























Hemarks. — At all the distilleries which I visited I found the gaugers 
and store-keepers on duty and seemingly attentive. Very few of them 
have wantage rods or pipetts. All gauge to make the capacity of 
cask even gallons. Some of them, in taking the bnng diameter, draw 
the extreme point of the i)rojection of the mean diameter-slide till it 
strikes the under side of the bung stave, thereby giving too great a 
bung diameter. None of them understood the mean-diameter scale, nor 
could they gauge on the first or third varieties. Not one understood 
correction to volume nor manner of figuring same, nor of cutting the fig- 



548 



COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 



ures on the lonhg stave when the capacity of the cask was not seven gal- 
lons with wantage, and correction and correction marks. Some ofthem^ 
in taking proof out of a barrel, fill the hydrometer cup with a proof- glass^ 
set the cup on a shelf, go and get the stem and put it in the cup, and in 
the course of a minute or two announce the indication and temperature. 
This method would be liable to deceive the ganger, and in cold weather 
make the proof appear stronger than it really was. I^early all the barrels 
are soaked with water before being filled. This will also have a tendency 
to weaken the proof. Some gaugers rest the line above the general sur- 
faceof the spirits instead of the one belowfor the correct indication. The 
above reasons will in part account for the discrepancy between original 
and regauges. None and of the gaugers have the advance sheet for capac- 
ity tables. Some have Manual of 1873, which says nothing about correc- 
tion to volume where spirits are exactly proof or below, dropping all 
fractions below five-tenths. I find no saccharometers at any of the dis- 
tilleries. Gaugers gauge barrels before being filled, and make proof for 
distillers. Cistern-rooms have no floor nor ceibng, just boarded and 
battened on outside. Nearly all the low-wine tubs are set down on the 
ground, and low wines pumped into doubler with a stationary pump. 
All have holes in top of from one to two in. in diameter, to 'measure 
depths of spirits. Found board loose on low-wine tub at D. W. Mitch- 
ems. Wines could be abstracted. Meal-box at B. F. Morris's had no 
cover. Spirit pipes at all distilleries running into cistern-rooms are open 
at the end, aud spirits run into an open funnel, thence into barrel. 
Store-keeper's books generally correct. Most of the gaugers have a 
very limited education, and know nothing about decimal fractions or 
figuring correction to volume, and when snch is the case, it is almost 
labor in vain to try to teach them. I think my list of store-keepers and 
gaugers will be able to master the situation with proper care and study.. 
W. B. Lay and G. F. Flowers were pretty dull scholars. They may do 
in North Carolina, where they have only one or two barrels a week. I 
advised them all to meet in Dallas at least once a week and try and 
perfect themselves. Colonel E. Latham, who was with me part of the 
time, will perhaps report more fully in relation to the distilleries. 
Respectfully, 

W. M. EANDALL, 
U. S. Ganger, 5th Ills. 



B. — Report of examination of gaugers and store-keepers in 

A. Barnes, , 1880. 



dist. of- 



-, made by J, 











e 


<^=. 




Is 


>! 


u 


a 














t>5 




h 














v 




-5 

o 




§ 




J3 
O 

.3 « 


1 




Name. 






a 


M-2 


> 




31 S 

22 


n 


13 03 




Remarks. 




6 
u 


a 


P 

o 

w 


Is 

H 


1 

.a 

H 


1 

-a 


1 


.a 


1^ 

o 
ja 

M 


m 

H 




K.J.Kennedy. 


46 


King's 
Mt.,N. 
C. 


11 mo's 


Par- 
tially. 


Yes 


Lim- 
ited. 


Tem- 
perate. 


None . 


No-. 


Yes. 


Found store- 
keeper using 
a "Miller"' 
look on the 
cistern-room; 
had no other;, 
oaid he had 
ordered one. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



549 



C.—Beport of examination of (/augers and utore-keepcrs, in 1heC)th district of N. Carolina, 
7nade by G. F. Blackstone, U. S. ganger, Jpril 20, 21, and 22, 1880. 



Name. 



John M. Hauna 

L. A. Masin 

W. R. Rankin.. 
J. M. Aiuistron; 
T. D. Mc Alpine 
P. A. Little ... 



Residence. 



How long 
service '< 



Is he familiar 
with the du- 
ties of his 
office^ 



Is he attentive 
to duty? 



Charlotte, N. C I 17 months Fairly so Appears to be. 

Dallas, N. C -i 16 mos ' He is I He is. 

Gaiibaldi.N.C ] 18 mos ; He is I He is. 

Garibaldi, N. C i 12 uios He is | He is. 

Mt. Holly, iSr.U 1 -2 years He is j He is. 

Mt. Holly, N.C 12 mos I Fairly so He is. 



Name. 



John M. Hanna 
L. A. Masin 

W. R. Rankin . . . 

J. M. Armstrong 
T. D. McAlpine. 
P. A. Little 



Education. 



Think Itmight 
be classed as 
fairlj' good. 

Seems to be 
practically 
good. 



About fair; 
p I- o b a b 1 y 
rather lim- 
ited. 

Same as above. 



About same.as 
above ; pos- 
sibly better. 

Fairlv good. .. 



What are his 
personal hab- 
its? 



Solar as I could 
learn correct. 

Think they are 
cor r e c t ; a p- 
pears to be a 
good man for 
the position 

Same as above .. 



Same as above.. 



Same as above. 



Could learn 
nothing to his 
discredit. 



What was his 
military 
service ? 



None. 
None. 



About 3 years 
in Confeder- 
ate army. 

About 2i years 
intheUonfed- 
erate army. 

Five years in 
Union army. 

None 



03 Mo S 



Not while 
on duty. 

He is not. 



He is not 

No 

No 

No 



Is he fit for 
the position 
held? 



See remarks. 
He is. 

He is. 

He is. 
He is. 



Appears to be; 
perhaps not 
alt ogethe r 
satisfactory. 



Eemarks.— Tlie condition of affairs at the distillery of J. W. Gamble, 
No. 1327, John M. Hanna, store-keeper and g'r. appeared qnite nnsatis- 
factory . There seemed to be a sort of loose, careless way of doing- things. 
There ^^ ere large openings in both warehouse and cistern room. One 
in the cistern room and near the spirit pipe would allow a person to 
introduce his arm so that he could easily catch the spirits flowing from 
the pipe. The gauge was not what it should be, neither in wine galloas 
capacity nor proof. Besides, in some packages the wantage was exces- 
sively, if not suspiciously large. 

Would respectfully suggest that a reprimand from the proper au- 
thority might prove beneficial, as the officer appeared fairly competent. 

A single description might perhaps be sufacient for each of the other 
distilleries visited, as there seemed to be but little difference between 
them. 

The officers all appeared to be faithful and anxious to perform their 
duties to the best of their ability. Perhaps a little deficient in educa- 
tion, yet they seem to have a fair comprehension of the duties and re- 
sponsibilities of their jto.sitious, and are not only Avilling, but anxious to 
comply with the regulations so far as they understand them. 

Soiiie irregularities exist, owing mostly to the crude and imperfect 
construction of the buildings and distilling apparatus. Attention has 
in each case been called to these discrepancies, and advice given to cor- 
rect them as soon as possible. 



550 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 



Think the condition, with the exception of the one specified, may be 
regarded as fairly satisfactory. 

In the distillery warehouse of Smith & Nicker, No. 1353, J. M. Arm- 
strong, s. and g., the w. h. stamps on packages Nos. 32 and 35 were par- 
tially, and that on No. 33 totally destroyed. The officer states, and I 
think truthfully, that they were properly attached and varnished. That 
they were in a damp place where they could not be seen, and were muti- 
lated by rats. 

D. — Report of examination of gangers and store-keepers in. the 6th district of X. Carolina 
made by N. K. Beaslei), U. S. ganger, April 2ith, 18i!<0. 



Name. 


< 


Residence. 


How long in 
service? 


Is he familiar 
with the du. 
ties of his 
office ? 


Is he atten- 
tive to duty ? 


S. P. Stome 


45 

28 
56 
36 
50 


Dallas, N. C 

Dallas, N. C 


2 years and J 
actual duty 
17 months. 

5 mos. ac. 
duty. 

10 days' serv- 
ice. 

15 mos. ac. 
duty. 

7 mos. service. 


Modn»'='+olt7 an 


Is not assigned. 

Unassigned. 

Far as could 

see. 
Yes 


W.F.Holland 


Yes 
Not 
Yes 
Yes 




J. B. Shelton 


now 


P.J. Rhyne 


Dallas, N. 
Buffalo, P. 


C 


John F. Aj'dtone 


M 




Yes. 










Name. 


Education. 


What are his 
personal hab- 
its « 


What was his 
military 
service ? 


Is he en- 
gaged in 
other 
business , 


Is he fit for 
position 
held? 


S. P. Stome 


Inferior 

Fair - 


Good 


Confederate. . . 


No 

No 

No 

No 

No 




W. F. Holland. 


Good. 


Yes 


J. B. Shelton 


Fai 




Good 


Confederate... 
Confederate. .. 




P. J. Rhyne 




Good. . . . 


Yes 


John F. Aydtone 




Good 















Eemarks.— Stone. Not very familiar, but think he will become so. 

Holland. Is worthy of an assignment as soon as there is a vacancy. 

Ehyne. Yery little to correct in his work. 

Shelton. He has no manual or instruments ; think he will readily 
learn; appears intelligent and anxious to learn. 

Aydtone. As now instructed can get along very well in all his 
duties. 

What has been specially found as not in accordance with regulations, 
in the general arrangements of the distilleries has been referred to- 
Col. Latham. 

Have found the officers better up to the use of the iustruments, in 
gauging and weighing spirits, than in So. Ca. The barrel gauge is. 
very good. 

The difference in proof, as reported on Form 89, is accounted for^ 
mainly, from the endeavor of the officer to counteract the water left in 
the barrels after washing aud soaking. They have all been instructed 
that it is no part of an officer's dutv, but to report just as found. 

N. K.^ BEASLEY, 

U. 8. Gauger. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



551 



E.— Hepori of examination of gangers and store-kec))er.s in 
. ' made hu Thos. Hewson, April 'Z'i 



the {)lh diatricl of North Carolina, 
IM, 1«8U, 



Name. 



S. P. Sherrill. 
.T. F. Munday. 



Kesirtence. 



*^ ! 



Is ho familiar 
How long in ' with the du- 
ties of his 
office' 



46 i Liocolnton 5 years Te.s for the 

I (>pi)ortuiiUies 

' I , 'i he has had. 

38 ' Denver, Lincoln Co... I ."jnjonth.s i No 



Is he attentive 
to duty ' 



Yes. 



I found him on 
duty. 



Name. 



S.P. Sherrill Fair 



J. F. Muuday Fair 



Education. 



What are his per- 
sonal hal)it8 ? 



What -was his 
military serv- 
ice? 



Is he en- 
gaged in 
o t li e r 

busiiiessl 



Temperate No . . .. 

Temperate i 2 years pri- 
vate in the 
1 so-called 
j Confederate 
army. 



No. 
No. 



Is he fit for 
position held 1 



Yes. 
No. 



Remarks.— S. P. Sherrils, store-keeper aud ganger at distillery No. 
1315, is a good man, and witli the instructions given him will make 
an efficient officer. He had the old instruction in using the rod and 
reading the stem, which was entirely wrong. n ^ t, at 

J. F. Munday, store-keeper and ganger at distillery No. 1320, B. M. 
Carpenter's is "a one-armed man (I think he has lost the left arm ; he 
said in the so-called Confederate army.) He is incapable of nsing the 
rod, and does nor understand it. The ganging that has been done in 
the distillerv since his assignment there has been done by the distiller. 

THOS. HEWSON, 

U. 8. Oanyer. 



GENERAL REMARKS. 

The selection of officers bv the Hon. collector, Dr. J. J. Mott, has 
been men of intelligence and sobriety. Their instructions have been 
limited: what thev have received M'as wrong. ^ , , i 

They nniformily read their rod at the largest place of the head, 
always taking the measurement of both heads and dividing the ditfer- 
ence'at the largest and smallest place found ; they always try to make 
the package as large as possible. In reading the hydrometer they 
alwavs read the line they see. . . ^ 

They know nothing about i gallon in capacity ; when it is lound they 
call it'a whole gallon, " as the taxable gallon must be a Avhole gallon, 
and so mark it on the bung stave. , ^ i 

I have not found one of the officers examined by me that understood 

correction of volume; so they have never used it. 

Yonrs, respectfully, „^„.o,^^^-r 

' THOS. HEWSON, 

TJ. 8. Ganger. 

W. F. Porter, store-keeper and ganger at ^FcAbsher's distillery, No. 
1744, had at one time been interested in a distillery ; found him a good 



552 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



iium; knew iiothiiig about gauging ; be bad not entered anytbine- in 
tbo wareliouse. 



Yours, respectfulljr 



THOS. HEWSON, 

U. /S. Ganger. 



Mcporlofexaminaiiou of <jaiujers and .^iore-keeper.s h, sixth district of North Carolina, made 
hii Thos. Hewson, , 1880. 



Naivie. 



A(lol|>liiia Aug. Moss 

K. H. Foani 

A. M. Hiiliiion , 

W. F. Jloots 

J. F. Hodrick 

S. D. Brown 

K. L. ]{oll , 

T. B. Iliiynos 

A. W. Bell 

T.S.Gail 

1). R. K.hvaids 

W. F. Porter 

J. K. Houdrix 



Age. 



Eesidenoe. 



How long in 
service 1 



Mocksville 

South River ... 

Ziou 

X-roads Church 
Elk Shoal, J^. C 
Ilaniptonville . 

Haniptonvillo ^„ 

Joiiesville | 4 luo.s 

Laiuwood i 1 yeai 



1 year . . . . 
13 mouths. 

15 mos 

7 inos 

fi mos. 

9 mos 

13 mos 



VVilkosboro _. 
Roaring River . 
Mulberry, N. C 
Elkvillo,' N. C . 



1 year 

1 year 

19 days 

1 year, off 
and on. 



Is he familiar with the duties of his 
office 1 



Yes ; for flic opportunities be has had. 
Yes ; lor tlie opportunities he has had. 
Yes ; ior the ojiportunilies he has had. 
Yes ; for tho opportunities he lias bad. 
Yes; for tlio opportunities he has had. 
Yes ; for the o[)portunities ho has had. 
Yes ; lor tlio opportunities be has had. 
Yes ; for tlio opportunities he has hail. 
Yes ; for the opportunities he has had. 
Yes. 

Yes ; for the instructions he has lec'd. 
Has had no practice. 
Bas had but little practice. 



Name. 



Ado'pluis Aug. Moss 

,R, H. Koard 

A. M. Salmon 

W. F. Hoots 

J. F. Hedrick 



S. D. 
R L 
T. 15. 
A. W 
J, S. 
D. K 
^Y. 1 



Brown . 
Bell 



Yes... 

Yes... 
Yes... 

Yes... 
Yes... 



Fair . 

Fair . 
Fair . 
Fair . 
Good 



Ha V lies Yes 

iM] , Yes. 

Call i Yes. 

Edwards Yes 

'• I'orter ' Yes 



Yes. . . Fair 
Yes ..\ Fair 



J. K, lleiulrix I Yes. 



Fair . 
Fair . 
F^air . 
Poor. 
Fair . 



Fair . . 



Temperate.. 

Temperate.. 
Temperate.. 
Temperate.. 
Temperate.. 



Temperate. 
Temperate. 
Temperate. 
Temperate. 
Temperate. 
Temperate . 
Temperate. 



Q'emperate. 



A\^hat was his mili- 
tary service ? 



Col. in the so-called 
Confed'y. 

Never served 

None 

None 

None 



None 

None 

None 

None 

None 

None 

2 years a private in 
the so-called Con- 
federate army. 

No :.... 






No. 



No 

No 

No 

Merchant: 

carried on 

in his name; 

he is not at 
. the place of 

business. 

No 

No. 

No 

No 

No 

No 

No 



No. 



Yes. (See 
remarks. 
Yes. 
Yes. 
Yes. 
Yes. 



Yes. 

Yes. 

Yes. ■ 

Yes. 

Yes. 

Yes. 

Yes. 



Yes. 



llEM.VBKS.— Adoli)bus A. Moss, Store-keeper and i>anger at J. M. 
Howard's, distillery No. Io94, is a man from bis age tluit migbt easily 
be imposed upon. From tlie rei)ort of regauge, I tind packages with 
very large wantage ; did not diseoxer tbat tliere was any leakage, and 
tbe interenee drawn was tbat probably the distiller or some one bad 
retiiiled out of tbose packages. 1 bave reported bim fit for duty, and I 
think with the instructions given bim be will improve and probablv 
make .in eflicient ollicer. 

W. II. Brinegar, distillery No. 1722, I found a young man named 
Moss on duty m the place of J. N. Hays, store-keeper aiid ganger, ab- 
sent attending court in Wilkes County: bad been absent about one 



THE SIXTH DI.STJilCT OF NOUTII CAROLINA. 05d 

week. J. K. Hiiys, s. and g., liad no instruments to gauj^(; with, f 
fouiul liis gau^in;4 and proof very niucli out of tlie way, ranj^inj;- fi-oni 
98 to 10!) iMoof, marked J(H) jnoof. 

K. L. B«'ll, stoic-kccjx'r and ^au^er, was on duty at J). L. ik 13. 
Sliorcs' distillery, .Xo. J.'WT, the day J visited th<! distillery, April 1.3, 
'80; Ai)ril 15, '80, I was on the roa<l to Wilkes County, 1 met him 8 
mil(^s from his distillery at a. m. He said he had b(;en hom(? to si)end 
the ni^ht, 

I. J3. llaynes, stor<*-k(!ei)er and j;an^er at II. AV. S. »S: J)ouj;iass, dis- 
tillery No. 12.'}7, was siek, he nuit us and ree(;iv(;d our instructions. 
We touml at this <listilleiy 47i)a(;kages with excessi\'e wanta<;e. Several 
of the pa<;kages we (;ouhl not insert the bunj^-slide into the bung hole. 
These had been re])orted as gauged by W. F. Hoots and J. H. Hauser, 
«tore-keepers and gangers. 



No. 2. 

United States Internal Kevenue, 
Collector's Office, District North Carolina, 

Marion, April 20, 1880. 
Col. 1^]d. McLeer, //er. A(ft : 

Sir : 1 have the honoi- to reiiort to you that I cxUmined and instrueted 
S. II. Flemming in his duties as stor<'-kee])er and ganger to day. 

1 found JMr. I'Memming to be a man of good standing and influential 
in the community in which he lives. 

He was comniissioned s. and g. about one year ago and has been em- 
ployed as such about one-half of that time. 

He was not w(;ll informed in his duties, especially as ganger, but very 
readily understood my explanations. He is not assigned at present. 
Kes[)ectfull\' subinitt(id. 

,]. D. EATON. 



No. .'1 

United States Internal Kevenue, 
Collector's Office, Distrkjt Ninrrn Carolina, 

Marion, April 20, 1880. 

Col. Ed. McLeer, Rev. A(ft : 

Sir : To-day I examined and instructed M. M. Teague in the duties of 
store-keeper and ganger. 

He had but very little practical knowledge of bis duties officially, 
but readily comi)rehended my explanation. He was commissioned about 
10 months ago, has assignment at warehouse of A. Summons (Xo. 05.")) 
containing 40 packages, also warehouse of J. FI. Davidson (same num- 
ber) containing 10 ])ackages. Distillery not in oi)eration for more than 
a year past. Mr. Teague has no gauging-ro<l. 
Kespectf u 1 h submit ted, 

J. D. EATON. 



554 COLLECTION OF INTEKNAL REVENUE IN 

Xo. 12. 



Statesville, Korth Carolina, 

April 26th, 1880. 
Col. Horace Kellog, 

Int. Revenue Agent, Statesville, N. C. : 
Sir : By direction of the Hon. Green B, Ranm, Commissioner of In- 
ternal Bevenne, I had the honor to report to you for duty on the 6tb 
inst., when I was assigned by you to the temporary division composed 
of the following counties, viz. : 

Davie, Deputy Collector W. H. Hobson, 
Yadkin, " " J. C. Sullivan, 

Wilkes, " " J. T. Pedan, 

Alexander, " " W. M. Walker, 

Ashe and '< " J. Q. A. Bryan, 

Alleghany, an. u 

with instructions to make an examination of all distilleries in operation 
in those counties, and to examine and instruct the officers on duty at 
said distilleries. 

For that purpose Collector Mott assigned to my assistance the fol- 
lowing officers : 

Ganger, Thos. Hewson, 1st dist. Mo. 
" J. A. Barnes, 1st " " 
" F. Greelv, 1st " Ills. 

" J. B. Taylor, 1st " " 

On the morning of the 7th myself and party proceeded to Mocksville^ 
Davie Co., where we were met by J^eputy Collector Hobson. 

The work of the county was then divided so that three parties, of 
two each, could work simultaneously, and at the same time be within 
easy reaching distance of each other. Messrs. Hewson and Barnes 
made one party, Greely and Taylor another, and Mr. Hobson and my- 
self the third. The first and second parties were sent to the distilleries 
that were easiest of access, while the deputy (being familiar with the 
roads) and I took those that were most difficult to find. 

Finding this arrangement of my forces to work well, it was continued 
throughout the other counties. As was to be expected, we found the 
distilleries somewhat crude and the officer unskillful. The officers, 
however, seemed to be a good class of men, intelligent and willing to 
take instruction. The distilleries were not examined too critically j 
defects, such as loose joints on spirit pipes; flow-cocks, boxes, and meal 
boxes locked, but with hinges so adjusted that the boxes could be 
opened without disturbing the locks ; insecure cistern-rooms, and the 
like, were all pointed out and remedies suggested, which suggestions 
were favorably received by the distillers, who promised to carry them 
out at once and make everything tight and secure. 

The cistern-rooms generally, as you know, are so constructed that 
boards can be readily taken off and replaced without the knowledge of 
the store-keeper. To remedy this I have suggested the placing of 
matched strips (in the absence of regular casing) across the boards of 
which the walls are constructed, in such way that these strips shall be 
nailed on the inside of the room, and so that the outside boards cannot 
be displaced and replaced without the knowledge of the officer on duty. 
The warehouses being generally built of logs are more secure, at least 
as far up as the logs extend, but beyond that and up to the apex of the 
roof they are very much like the cistern-rooms. I found only one of the 



< 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NOKTH CAROLINA. 555 

books (Form 13) required to be kept by distillers iu use. Forms 12, 
2o, and 28, being entirely unknown and entirely dispensed witli. Form 
52, which they are required to keep in their capacity of wholesale liquor 
dealers, was kept by, but a great many made no entries on the side for 
" spirits received." ' As Form 12 is not in use no account whatever is 
kept by the distiller of the materials purchased, and Form 25 being dis- 
pensed with, he keeps no accounts of the filling and emptying of tubs. 

The two books in use (Forms 13 and 52) are written up by the store- 
keeper on duty, and in very many cases this cannot be avoided, for the 
reasons that the distiller cannot write or knows nothing of book-keep- 
ing. 

Great pains were taken to instruct the officers and impart to them 
whatever knowledge experience had taught us. 

The spirits in bond demonstrated the fact that the casks were very 
generally overgauged, and this I attribute to the unskillful manipula- 
tion of the gauging instruments. The lengths were too long, being 
taken by pressing one hand on the lower end of each caliper, thus 
throwing the part of the caliper sliding on the rod into a position that 
would give a false reading to the length. The mean diameters were 
almost universallv taken too large. This was accomplished by taking 
the largest part of the largest head, and taking the bung measurement 
in such a way that only the extreme point of the lips of the bung-shde 
touched the bung-stave. Nothing whatever was known on the sub- 
ject of correction to volume, and were it not for the dense ignorance 
existing on that question one would be almost led to believe that the 
entire absence of fractional gallons in capacities of casks {not oneheing 
discovered in the three counties) was accounted for by the desire of the 
gangers to be relieved from the necessity of making and reporting the 
corrections to volume. Some of the officers had a correct understand- 
ing of the proper way to read the indications and temperature, but the 
majority read the first line above the surface. The stamps, marks, and 
brands (corr. to vol. excepted) were generally put on in a proper man- 
ner, only that it is quite generally the custom to separate the special 
brand o'f the distiller, a portion of it being cut above the stamps and 
a portion below. The store-keeper's record, Form 17, was kept on the 
"machine" principle, one day's receipts of materials being just the 
same as every other day's receipts, and no day's receipts being in ac- 
cordance with the facts, but all being entered as " received," m pre- 
cisely the same quantities as " used " daily, without reference to the 
actual quantities received. In many cases store-keepers entered tem- 
perature and gravity regularly every day, notwithstanding that they 
had neither thermometer nor saccharometer with which to test it. The 
similarity of many of the names of officers and distillers suggested the 
idea of consanguinity, and, on making inquiry, I ascertained that five 
of the store-keepers are so related, the officers being generally sons ot 
distillers, but on duty at other than their fathers distilleries. I do not 
wish to be understood as noting this with intention to reflect on either 
party, as it is possible for an honest distiller to have an honest son. I 
mention it, however, for the information of the proper authorities, for 
I apprehend it is a thing that might be carried too far. 

The efficiency of the service in the counties visited by me depends 
largely upon the character and ability of the deputy collectors in charge 
of thosedivisions. InMr.Hobsou, DavieCounty has a most accomplished 
officer, who is thoroughly interested in the work in which he is engaged, 
but whose compensation, I am sorry to say, is not commensurate with 
the duties and work that so large a number of distillers entail. In Mr. 



556 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Sullivan, Yadkin (Jo. has an indefatigable worker, whose pay, I am 
glad to say, is more near what it ought to be than that of Mr. Hobson. 
In Capt. Pedan, Wilkes County has a deputy collector to whom the tax- 
payers and officers all seem to look up with great respect, a zealous, 
hard-working officer, whose great aim seems to be to bring his division 
up to a high standard of excellence, but whose pay and allowances are 
not at all equal to the hard work performed. 

I am convinced that the best interests of the service and district 
would (be) subserved by an increase of the pay and allowances of the 
above named deputies, or at least an equalization of the salaries of all 
the deputies in the district, and in some cases an increased allowance 
for expenses. To Mess. Hobson, Sullivan, and Peden I am largely 
indebted for the expedition with which 1 was enabled to prosecute and 
accomplish the work assigned to my party. 

To Messrs. Hewson, Barnes, Greely, and Taylor, all of whom are ac- 
complished officers and gentlemen, I am also indebted for the cheerful, 
willing, and hearty co-operation extended to me at all times and in all 
places during the trip, 

I transmit herewith their several reports. 
Very respectfully, 

H. B. BUEGH, 
Int. Revenue Gauger, on Spc. Duty. ■ 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 557 

A. — Statement of allowances made by the Secretary of the Treasury, upon the recommenda- 
tion of the Commissioner- of Internal Eevenue for the sixth district of North Carolina, for 
deputies and clerks, upon which the followiny payments tvere made: 

REGULAR ANNUAL ALLOWANCES. 

Fiscal year 1874. Approved by Secretary, August 8, 1873 : 

Five deputies $7, 500 

One clerk 1,000 

Fiscal year 1875. Aiipi'oved by Secretary, July 25, 1874 : 

One deputy 1,800 

Four deputies 6, 000 

One deputy 1,'200 

Oue clerk 1,200 

Fiscal year 1876. Approved by Secretary, June 19, 1875 : 

One deputy 1, 800 

Three deputies 4, .500 

One clerk 1,200 

Fiscal year 1877. Approved by Secretary, September 6, 1876 : 

Oue deputy 1, 650 

Seven deputies - 9, --OO 

Three deputies >- 3, 300 

One clerk 1,000 

One clerk - 600 

Fiscal year 1878. Approved by Secretary, June 11, 1877 : 

One deputy 1,700 

Seven deputies 9, 800 

Three deputies 3, 300 

One clerk 1,000 

One clerk 600 

Fiscal year 1879. Approved by Secretary, June 27, 1878 : 

Oue deputy 1,700 

Seven deputies 9, 800 

Four deputies 4, 400 

Two clerks 2,000 

Oue clerk 600 

Fiscal year 1880. Approved by Secretary, July 2, 1879 : 

One deputy 1,600 

Seven deputies 9, 450 

Six deputies 6,300 

Three clerks 2,850 

One clerk 900 

Fiscal year 1881. Approved by Secretary, June 23, 1880 : 

Two deputies 3,200 

Six deputies -• 8, 100 

Eight deputies 9,200 

Four deputies 3, 800 

One deputy 800 

One messenger 300 

Fiscal year 1882. Approved by Secretary, June 17, 1881 : 

Two deputies - 3,200 

Six deputies 8, 100 

Eight deputies 9,200 

One deputy 1,200 

Three deputies 2, 850 

Two deputies 1,600 

One messenger 300 



558 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



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THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 561 

Statement of the aUoiV((iicfs made hi/ the Seerefari/ of the Treasnr!i,iipon the recommenda- 
tion of the Commissioner of Internal Heceniie for the sixtli ditstriet of North Carolina, 
for special deputies employed in the suppression of frauds in manufacture and sale of 
spirits and tobacco, upon n'hich tJie followimj payments were made: 

SPECIAL ALLOWANCES. 

Fiscal year 1874. AT>proved by the Secretary: 

One special deputy. $1,500 00 

Fiscal year 1875. Approved by the Secretary : 

One special deputy 1, 500 00 

Fiscal year 1876. Apjiroved by the Secretary : 

One special deputy i 1, 500 00 

One special deputy 1,200 00 

Fiscal year 1877. Approved by the Secretary : 

Seven special deputies '2, 051 35 

Fiscal year 1878. Approved by the Secretary : 

Eight special deputies, July to December 2, 4^ ^ 00 

Eight special dej)uties, from October 15, three mouths 3, 000 00 

Eight special deputies, from January 15, three mouths 3, 000 00 

Eight special deputies, from May 1, two mouths 2, "^00 00 

Fiscal year 1879. Approved by the Secretary: 

Eight special deputies, for three mouths, from July 1, 1878 3, 000 00 

Seven special deputies, for foiir mouths, from September 1 \ r. ran qq 

Eight special deputies, for three mouths, from October 1 ^ ' 

Fifteen special deputies, from March 15, 1879, to April 30, $125 per 

mouth 2,903 25 

Additional special deputies, from August 26 to November 30, 1878 670 50 

Fiscal year 1880. Approved by the Secretary : 

Fifteen special deputies, two months, from October 15, 1879, $125 per 

mouth 3,750 00 

Fifteen special deputies, from December 15, 1879, to January 31, 1880 2,812 50 

Fifteen special deputies, for two months, from February 1, 1880 3,750 00 

Fifteen special deputies, for tifteen months, from April 1, 1880 937 50 

Fifteen special deputies, from April 16 to June 30, 1880... 4,687 50 

Fiscal year 1881. Approved by the Secretary : 

Fifteen special dejuties, two months, July 1, 1880 3,750 00 

Five special deputies, from August 16 to November 30 2, 197 58 

Fifteen special deputies, three months, from September 1, 1880 5,625 00 

Fifteeu special deputies, for three months, from December 1, 1880 5, 625 00 

Five special deputies, for three mouths, from December 1, 1880 1,875 00 

Fiscal year 1880. Approved by the Secretary : 

Six special deputies, November 1 to January 31, 1882, at $100 per month 1, 800 CO 

S. Mis. 110 30 



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COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



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COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 









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White, M. A 

Wilcox, T. L 

Williams, L.S 

Williams, J.C 

West, L. B 


: 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF ^ORTH CAROLINA. 



565 



Siattment of payments made to ititernal-reveiiue (jaitfiers in the shih district, Xorth Carolina, 
from August 1, 1872, to JJecembcr :il, 1^73. 



Months. 



August 1872 

Sevtember 1872 

October '. 1872 

November 1872 

December 1872 

January 1873 

Felirua'ry 1873 

March i 1873 

April 1873 

1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 



May 

June 

July 

August . .. 
September 
October . . 

November ! 1873 

December j 1873 

January 1874 



$41 50 
1G9 8U 
168 04 
201 94 
136 89 

99 85 
127 25 
139 67 
117 10 
120 04 
100 66 
122 76 

98 80 
7 00 



Total ' 1,651 30 



$113 23 
139 12 
166 83 
144 12 
143 52 
142 02 
160 53 
166 57 
153 22 
170 08 
101 48 

32 10 
120 00 

83 00 



$106 03 
J 81 77 
153 90 
142 30 



85 00 

32 50 

116 63 

125 69 

130 79 



, 835 82 1, 074 67 



$26 30 

153 35 

99 00 

95 20 

"72' 00 

147 65 

188 17 



$84 95 

148 25 

127 25 

37 70 



J122 75 
120 12 
148 13 
122 35 
141 94 
140 38 



86 88 
94 64 
122 60 



112 46 
93 50 



*469 82 



$94 15 
139 42 
149 47 
163 33 
108 40 
179 25 

11 35 
7 33 

45 87 
75 



$142 34 
162 32 
103 75 
113 74 
101 51 



17 IS 
51 00 
11 60 



908 23 1, 2t;5 49 , 899 32 703 50 



Months. 



June 

July 

Ausust 

September 

October 

November . 
December . 



Total 



1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 
1873 



$81 .56 
90 58 

98 69 

99 88 



370 71 



$73 05 

157 42 

76 75 

34 35 



341 57 



$30 00 

72 50 

101 50 



$102 02 $140 66 
132 49 ', 144 93 



204 00 I 234 51 1 285 59 22 50 



$18 40 
18 40 



* $469.82 in one payment for all accounts from March 1, 1873, to January 31, 1874. 
Prior to August, 1872, gaugers were paid by the distillers, and not by the United States. 



566 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 



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THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



567 



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568 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



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569 



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COLLECTIOX OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 





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THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



571 



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572 



COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 



Statement of payments made to storelceepers by J. J. Mott, collector sixth district, Xorth 
Carolina, from January 1, 1874, to June 30, 1874. 





ft 


Amount paid quarter 
ending March 31, 1874. 


Amount paid quarter 
ending June 30, 1874. 


u 

11 

5 bX) 

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4 00 
4 00 
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4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 

4 00 

5 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 


$108 
108 


.$96 
9fi 


$104 
104 
104 
48 
24 
104 
104 

""l04 
104 
104 


$70 

64 

104 


$104 
104 
104 


$104 

16 

104 






$586 
49.2 


Gray J W 






Boui'las J P 


108 fifi 






620 


Brown, W.H 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
135 
108 


96 
S16 
96 
96 
48 
96 
90 
96 
72 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
12 
120 
96 
24 






252 


Crtldwell, F 












228 


Stewart, A. (H) 

Williams J W 


70 
104 


20 
104 


32 


1 


430 


72 
104 






588 


Templeton, Thomas... 
Cain B. F 






260 


48 
104 
104 


104 


104 








Bennett "W. G 


104 1 88 








Tate W. S 


104 104 








Bailey W. T 








McKee "W". S 


8 
16 

68 
104 
104 




[ 










36 


104 ' 104 






















"""'64' 


96 
104 


104 
104 








Setzer G W 








Smith S. P 








Mott H.T 
















Cloud, Joel 

Bo<Tle W M 






72 
68 
88 
104 
104 
84 
44 

" 'io4 

104 


56 
104 

16 

52 
104 

48 








104 

32 

48 

60 

36 

48 

104 

104 

8 

80 

130 

104 


64 

68 

104 

lU 

20 

104 

52 

104 

104 

40 

130 

104 

104 

64 

40 

84 

34 

36 

100 

8 

80 

* 56 

48 

34 

88 

16 

40 

48 




























Clifford J G 












Patterson W W 












Gill W. L 


4 00 












4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 




24 
64 










Stowe LP 


104 
8 








"Williams 0. G 








Sherrill S P 












Morrow, Leroy 

Watts T J . .. 


5 00 






130 


i.!?n 








4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 






104 1 104 














104 
104 

20 

' 104 

104 

12 

92 


104 

104 

96 








Benham B B 




























Smooth G S 


























Shaip G. W 








104 
104 


1 




Furches J. M 












Wilfong C. A 












Long T. S 








104 








Taylor A. Z 


4 00 
















4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 








96 


104 








Hobbs Milton 






















104 


92 








Thornburc J T 






















36 

104 

56 










Thompson, J. S 

Little P A 








104 
56 
16 

48 




















Gregory, jRmes 

McCorkle W. A 



















































THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF N(nrrH CAROLINA. 



573 



SliiUmciil of pa 1/ III (11 In made to .florrkci'jn'n^ hij J. J. Matt, coUcclor aijtli divtiicl, North 
Carulhia, from 'lulii 1, l'^T4, to June '30, 1875. 





o 


Amount paid 
quarter ending 
September 30, 

1874. 


Amount paid 
quarterend- 
ing Decern- 
ber31, 1874. 


Amount paid 
quarter ending 
March 31, 1875. 


Amount paid 
quarter ending 
June 30, 1875. 


ICainc. 




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1 


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3 

1 



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Setzcr, G. W 


$4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 

4 00 

5 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 

4 00 

5 00 
5 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 CO 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 


$108 

24 

12 

108 

32 

108 

108 

32 

36 

40 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

135 

108 

"'56' 


$36 


$104 


$96 


$100 




$104 

96 

104 

104 


$96 
76 
96 

72 


$88 

"m 

60 


$88 
16 
104 
104 


$104 




B<>"1(' W. M 












104 

48 


$100 
104 


Doufzlas, J. P 


"104 
104 


88 


108 


100 




Cliffoitl J. G 




Jeniiiiifis, T. L 

Stovvt' L. P 


104 
104 


'"io8 


28 
lOQ 




104 
104 


96 
96 
96 
72 
96 
96 


92 

76 

108 

"ios' 

108 
22 
100 


104 


104 


104 


Furclies, J. M 


104 
84 

104 
84 

104 
60 


104 
104 

60 
104 
104 

80 




Stewart, A. H 






96 

84 
108 


100 
100 
100 






104 


Cain, E. F 








104 
104 


104 


Moss, A. A 

Tenipleton, '1 hniiias . . 
LoDfT, T. S. (M 


104 


104 


104 
104 


104 

60 

104 


104 
104 
104 


108 
108 


100 
100 
100 




104 


64 


92 


Pierson, J. A 

Howard, A. B 




104 


96 


104 


104 


104 


12 




104 
104 
130 
104 
44 
















84 
104 
130 

56 






Bennett, W. G 

Monow, Leioy t 

"Watts T. J 


104 
130 
104 


108 
105 
108 


100 
125 
100 




104 
130 


96 
120 


106 
135 

72 


104 
130 


104 
130 


Men-ill M. S 






McCoikle ^y A 












56 
96 

'"96" 


108 

100 

40 

56 


64 
104 
104 


""164 
104 
100 


44 


Tate, W. S 


40 


104 
20 
92 


108 
60 

108 
48 
12 
30 


100 
100 
100 




104 


100 


Haynes, Thomas 

Maitin J H 






104 












Gill, W. L 










:::::::: 




28 


104 


96 


1C4 


Thompson, J. S * ... 
White M. A1 
























i25 
48 
64 
48 




130 
104 
104 
1('4 
104 
104 
33 
72 


120 

ue 

96 
96 
96 
96 
96 


135 

108 

108 

96 

92 

84 
40 


130 
36 
76 


130 
"164' 


130 


Tays S. L 




. 






104 


Gray, J. W 

Sharp,G."W 

Caldwell, J. E. A 

Williiuus J W 










96 










96 










96 


104 


100 














32 
















104 


92 


104 


Cobb E R 
















LonaJ. W. C 














32 
96 
36 
32 
16 


"ios' 

108 

108 

108 

60 

12 

80 

8 

12 

12 


44 
4 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


12 
92 
104 
100 
104 
104 














24 








Tucker, D. S 














104 


George, W.H 

Patterson W "W 
































104 


Little P. A 


















Daniel G S 






































1C4 


16 


Moore W. A H 












































Caldwell. L. C. (J. C. ?) 
Tucker, F. P . . 


















8 
28 
20 
20 


8 


4 





















Bailey, L. A . . 






















Moss, W. B . . . . 








































24 




WilfoDg, C. A 












j 








12 














1 










4 


Walker, W. M 












i 










88 


Sherrill S P 












[ 










4 


Withers C C 












1 










104 
























8 



























* No payments made by Mott. J. G. Ramsay, collector sixth district, North Carolina. 
t General storekeeper. J Acting general storekeeper. 



574 



COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE TN 



Statement of payments made to storelceepers by J. J. Mott, collector sixth district. North Cai 
oUna,from July 1, 1875, to June 30, 1876. 



Name. 



M 



$4 00 



Quarter end- ! Quarter ending 
ing Septem- December 31, 
ber 30, 1875. 1875. 



5 00 



t 00 



5 00 
4 00 



Moss, A. A 

Patterson, W. W 

Bogle, W.M 

Gray, J.W 

Williams, L.J 

Louranoe, W. E 

Watts, T.J 

Tays, S. L 

Adams, J. F 

Haynes, Thomas 

Reece, W. A 

Tucker, D.S 

C]ittOTd,J. G 

Long, T. S 

Westmoreland, W. L . . 

Tulliville, L. W 

Stowe.L.P 

Ballard, L. A 

White, M. A. '^- 

Morrow, Leroy * 

Williams, J. "VV" 

Walker, W.M 

Jennings, T. L 

Templeton, Thomas . . . 

Gill, W. L 

Hobbs.C.A 

Cain,R.F 

Douglas, J. P 

Downs, W.W 

George, W. H 

Orrell.D.E 

Stewart, A. H 

Furches, J. M 

Caldwell, J. E. A 

Thomj)son, J. S.l^ 

Cash, J.P 

Tate, W.S 

Wagoner, E.L 

Withers,C.C 

Cook.C. L 

McGinniss, Nathan 

Moore, C 

Williams, M.C 

LoDg,J.W.C 

Jones, C.C 

Morrow, L 

Sharpe,G. W 

Merrill, W.S 

Drake, E.B.J 

Smith, S.P 

Pearson, J. A 

Wilfong,C.A 

Smoot,G.S 

Dula.S.A 

Coon,W.P 

Passour, D. R 

Cline,J. J 

Brown, W. H 

Mott,H.T 

Bumgarner, T. L 

Jewett,M.W 

Bryan, A. C 

Blaylock, J. R 

Atwell,R.L : 

Furches, W. F i 

Privett, J.P i 

North, T '• 

Cline,R.P.§ i 5 00 

Prather, N. F ! 4 00 

* General storekeeper. 

\ Acting general storekeeper 



$104 
40 



5 00 



,96 



$24 



130 
115 



76 
96 

8 
32 

"28' 

88 

104 



104 

ioi' 



$104 



$108 



Quarter ending 
March 13, 1876. 



$104 $100 
100 36 

8 : , 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

8 
20 

8 



44 
4 
12 
104 
72 
14 



104 

80 

130 



104 
104 



104 
92 



96 

104 

96 

24 



32 

104 

96 

32 

16 

130 

68 

100 

12 

76 

56 



108 
108 



108 
108 
44 



108 
108 
135 



108 
108 



108 

108 



108 
108 



108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



108 
108 



135 

108 
108 

'io8 

108 



72 



100 
96 



72 
104 
104 



100 
100 



100 

100 

92 



104 
104 
130 



104 



32 
104 



104 

80 



104 
100 



104 

104 

4 



130 



8 
68 
44 

4 

8 

92 

100 

8 
104 
92 



100 
100 
125 



100 
100 



100 
100 



100 
100 



125 
100 



$12 



92 
104 



Quarter ending 
June 30, 1876. 



$40 
84 



100 
108 



104 
100 
135 



108 
108 



108 
108 
108 
104 
100 



108 
108 



135 
92 



100 
100 



100 
100 



16 
100 



108 
104 



108 
108 



100 



100 
100 



100 
100 
125 



100 



100 
76 



100 
100 
100 



100 
100 



125 
100 



100 
100 



84 
100 



84 
100 



100 

'ioo 



J General storekeeper, vice Morrow. 

§ Acting general storekeeper, vice Morrow. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 

Statement of payments made to storekeeper 8, tj-e. — Coutiiiued. 



575- 





a 

ft 


Quarter end- 
in K Septem- 
ber 30, 1875. 


Quarter ending 
December 31, 
1875. 


Quarter ending 
March 31, 1876. 


Quarter ending 
June 30, 1876. 


Name. 


t^ 


< 


c 

p. 


1 


3 

a 

> 
o 
'A 


<v 

3 

o 

R 


January. 


n 


.a 








Beadwell AM 




















$24 

60 

16 

. 16 


$16 




Woods A 


$4 00 




















Wbittaker W S 










. _ 










Rich J W 




















Clarke J A 










1 






4 
76 
12 

4 
24 




Karklev W A 










1 










Ellis W L W 










1 1 . 








$4- 












1 ' 










Haynes T B 










1 


















! 1 ! 

i 1 , 











Statement of payments made to storekeepers and storekeepers and gangers hy J. J. Mott, 
lector sixth district, North Carolina, from July 1, 1876, to June '30, 1877. 



!0l- 







Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1876. 


Quarter ending 
December 31, 
1876. 


1 

Quarter ending 
March 31, 1877. 


Quarter ending 
June 30, 1877. 


Name. 


►t 


s 

3 


.a 

a 

.2 
p. 
m 
to 


u 

B 

o 
O 


B 

k 
O 


S 

a 

o 

. p 


i 

s 


a 


i 
1 


^ 


^ 
^ 


o 

a 

3 
t-3 


Tate, W. S* 


$4 00 
5 00 
5 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 oO 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 

1 4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 


$94 
130 
130 
104 
100 

10 

80 
104 

24 
104 
100 
104 
100 

80 

20 

104 

4 

88 
104 

16 
4 

84 

4 

104 

80 
104 

16 
104 

84 

4 

104 

4 

104 

88 

24 

76 
104 
104 


$108 

120 

120 

92 

108 


$104 
104 
104 

'164 


$104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


1 

$16 
104 
104 

52 

64 

CO 


$88 
104 
104 
104 
1U4 
104 


$108 

108 

108 

32 

84 

""ios" 

108 


$96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
52 
98 
96 


.$36 
108 
108 
32 
108 
108 


$16 
100 
100 


'$108* 
108 


$104- 


Drake, E.B=* 


](14 


White, M. A 

Caldwell J E A 


104 


Howell, J.B 

Atwell, R. L . 


ioo 

100 


108 


104 


Setzer G W 












20 


80 






60 


12 


100 






Mavberrv R B 








Jewett, m! W 


108 
108 






72 
36 


104 
104 


108 
56 


96 

84 


108 
12 


84 


108 










32- 


Ballard L A 












Smoot G S 


108 
52 
56 

108 


8 
36 










i 


Cook,C.L 

Cook R.J 


68 


104 


104 


96 


104 


100 


88 


104 


















108 


40- 


Brown, W. H 
















Smith, S.P .. 












20 
96 
96 


100 


108 


32 


Bryan, A. C 

Barker, R. W. H 

Cline J 


100 


96 


104 


36 


80 ! 




100 


108 






68 
104 


36 
104 


, 






Templeton, Thoma.s . . . 
Stowe L P 


104 
104 


104 
40 
104 
104 
104 


80 


96 




















108 

'ios' 


104 
104 


104 
104 


104 
104 

40 


108 
"'l08 


96 
"'96' 


4 
104 








Gray, J. W 


100 


108 




Havues, Thomas 

Cain R F 














108 
108 

'io8 


52 


72 











io8 


100 


108 


32 


Dula S. A 














Haynes, T. B 






















Sharpe.G. W 

Welborn E M 






104 


104 


108 


96 


108 


100 


108 


104 








Withers C C 


108 
96 
56 
























12 
104 


104 

104 


88 
104 


88 
104 


96 


96 










Long T. S 


96 









Lono- T. M 














108 
60 
12 

108 
108 


104 


104 
16 


40 
































Derr A J 


















Curry J D 


104 
104 


104 
104 


96 
104 


104 
104 


40 
108 












Mott,'H. Y 


96 


108 


100 


108 


104 



General storekeeper. 



576 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL EEVENUE IN 

Statement of payments made to storekeepers and storekeepers and gangers, 


f c— Coutiuued. 
1 




i 

s 
ft 

-2 


Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1876. 


Quarter ending 
December 31, 
1876. 


Quarter ending 
March 31, 1877. 


1 

Quarter ending 
June 30, 1877. 


K'ame. 




5* 
<1 


i 
1 


o 
"S 
O 


s 


S 
B 

u 

a 
Q 


a 


a 

s 


g 

03 


P. 


!>3 


a 
3 
l-s 


George W. H 


$4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 






$104 


$104 
104 


$64 
















AVilliams, J. W 

Barkley W A 






104 

104 

16 

56 

104 
























$76 












Jon«»8 C. C 


















$16 










"so' 


104 

72 


$104 










Patterson, W. W 


















4 
4 


















Prive'tt J. G- 








68 

48 


100 


108 


$96 


$4 








Watts T.J 




104 


104' 
16 

24 
















68 


96 


72 


.$100 


40 




Rich T. W 










































104 
16 
56 
64 
28 
12 
76 
32 
72 


104 


84 




68 


100 


108 


$104 






















104 
104 

"ioi" 






20 
108 


100 
92 
















108 
16 

28 


96 


108 


104 


Tucker D. S 
































Gill, W. L 




















Caldwell, F. A 






















Caldwell, F 










"io4' 


108 


96 











Ca'dwell, L. C 
























24 

28 

108 

24 

12 

108 

64 

36 

56 

108 

108 

108 

108 












Clarke J. A 
























McAlpine,T.D 

Whittaker,W. S 

AVhittaker J. L 














96 


108 


100 


108 


104 






































Hildebrand, A. G 














96 
































Cobb, R. A 














96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 


108 
64 

108 
36 


100 
'"'64' 


108 


104 


Tays, S. L 
















Howell, ]Sr.B.(G.) 
































Hildebrand, Otto 


































20 
96 

4 

72 

108 

80 

28 

28 

96 

108 

108 

44 

52 


100 
























Owens J. "W" 


....1 






1 












Long J. W. C 


















"ioo" 

8 


104 
108 




Smith A. T 


















60 


MoKee,G. W 










































Sherrill,S.P 


















60 
100 
100 
100 
100 
























48 
108 

'"'20 
108 


64 


Moore,H.W 


















104 




















68 


Wiles, A 




















Cannon, G. W 


















68 


Tritt, J. D 












16 








Howell, R. L 


















36 

28 


108 
108 
108 
28 
60 


72 


Bogle, R. B 






















Eve,C. W 




















104 
















































104 



























THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



577 



■Stalcmeiit of paymcnU made io tiiorcleepers and storflieepers and f/auf/ers b)/ J. J. 
coltcctor sixth district XortkCarolina, from Jnly 1, 1877, Io Junis 30, 1878. 



AloU, 





P. 


Quarter- end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1877. 


Quartet ending 
December 31, 
•1877. 


Quarter ending 
March 31, 1878. 


Quarter ending 
June 30, 1878. 


Nimie. 




3 


s 

2 

p. 


o 

1 

o 

, O 


s 


a; 


5 

3 


1*1 


a 


p. 




1^ 




H 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 CO 
4 00 
4 0(1 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 


$68 








$28 
104 


$108 

108 

52 


$96 
96 
52 


$104 

104 

52 


$60 
104 
104 


$104 
108 
108 


$56 
100 
100 


Drake, E. B 

Tate, W. S 

Cobb, E. A 


104 

104 

104 

104 

92 

12 

36 

104 

104 

104 

96 

104 

48 

104 

16 

104 

104 

60 

48 


$108 

108 

16 

108 

108 

36 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


.$100 
100 


$108 
108 


$104 
104 


Mott, H.T 

Cook, C.L 

Bell, S. S 


92 
96 
4 
12 
16 
100 
100 
52 
100 
100 
100 


108 
64 
44 


104 
104 


104 


108 
108 


96 
96 


88 
60 


104 
80 
24 
104 
104 
24 


108 
108 

"ios" 

108 


100 
80 
20 


Tavs, S. L 






84 
10§ 
108 


""'96" 
96 


12 
96 
104 


100 


Lous. J. W. C 

Howell, J. B 


108 
108 
108 

108 ' 
108 
88 


104 
104 
104 
48 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 


68 


"Wliite, M. A 






Moore. H. W 

Eve, C. W 


104 
104 
104 
72 


108 
108 
108 
68 


96 
96 
96 
96 


104 
104 
104 
104 


104 

104 

96 

104 


108 


100 


Teiiipleton, Thomas.-. 
Sbarpc, G-W 






108 


100 




108 

108 

8 


100 
100 
100 


108 
108 
108 


104 

104 

84 


104 
104 
104 
100 


108 

84 

108 








56 

108 

52 


100 


MeKee,G.W 

Hildebraud, J 

Siiiionton, J. B 


96 
96 


100 
96 


104 
104 


100 


Barkley, W. A 


24 
92 

84 






' 












Stowe,'L.P 

Bosle, K. B 


92 

100 

8 

8 

24 

48 


108 


104 


104 


88 


96 


104 


104 


80 




Rbyne, C. M 

KhVne, William 






















i68 
52 
56 
28 
36 


"ioi' 


'l04 














Ferguson, F. C 






84 


96 


104 


104 


108 


100 


Ballew, .J.R 














56 
104 
104 
92 
20 
20 
20 














Davis, J. R 








104 


108 


90 


104 
96 


104 

104 


108 
108 


100 


Cain, R. F 










Smith, A.T 








104 


92 


96 




Hildebrand, A. G 













1 




Mcllpine, T. D 

Fishev, F. M 










104 


108 


96 


104 


104 


108 


100 












Davis, E.H 










104 
76 
104 
104 
64 
24 
68 
32 


56 




20 


104 


108 


40 


Bailev, L. A 














-Atwell, R. L 












80 
108 
108 
108 
108 
40 
20 
36 
24 
24 
16 
72 
16 






1 




Morrow, L 












96 
96 
96 
96 


104 
104 
104 
104 


104 
104 
104 
104 


108 
108 
108 
76 


100 


Douglas, J. P 












76 


Mock, L. C 












100 


Stiiisou,J. B 












100 


Morrison, W. C 














Withers, C. C 














16 

32 


16 
96 


ioo' 




Westmoreland, W. L.. 














76 


Holland. W. F 
















Hanua, S. G 






















Woodward, W. T 






















Furohes, J. M 














96 
96 
96 
64 


104 
48 
76 

104 
12 

104 
4 


104 

'"m 

104 
104 
104 


108 

"'io4 

108 
108 
108 


100 


Sherrill, S. P 
















Bogle. W. G 














100 


Grav, J. W 
















100 


.Teuuiugs, T. L 
















100 


Heudrix, J. K 














■ i 


100 


Wells, J. W 














1 




Williams, J. W 


■ 
















48 
24 
44 

8 
76 
68 

8 
72 


108 
108 
4 
108 
108 


100 


Patterson, W. W 




















100 


Shumatt, L. W 




















20 


Mayhevv, W. A 




















100 


Bri-stol, L. A 




















100 


Martin, J. M 






















Sowers. J. D 




















"ios' 

104 

56 

108 

108 


24 


Lourance, W. E 


















40 


Dula, S. A 


















100 


Rhyne, J. L 












1 








100 


Smith, D. V 












1 j 






100 


Cline, J.R 












\ 1 




12 


100 


Watts, J. A. F 
















64 


Powell, P. S .. 




















100 


Wilkinson, M. A 












1 








48 














i 











S. Mis. 116- 



-37 



578 



COLLECTION OF INTEENAL REVENUE IN 



Statement of payments made io storeTteepers and storekeepers and gaugers hy J. J. Mott, col- 
lector sixth district, North Carolina', from July 1, 1878, io June 30, 1879. 



Name. 



Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
hei 30, 1878. 



Quarter ending 
December 31, 

1878. 



Quarter ending 
March 31, 1879. 



Quarter ending 
June 30, 1879. 



Drake, E.B* 

Morrow, Leroy* 

Smith, A. T 

Sharpe,G. W 

Stinson, J. B 

Smilh,D.V 

Lourance, "W. E 

McAlpine.T.D 

■Westmoreland, W. L . 

Watts, J. A. F 

Williams, J. W 

Wilkinson, M. A 

Hendrix, J. K 

Huffman, S 

Mayhew, W. A 

Moore, H. W 

Mock,L.C 

Mott, H. T 

Tate, W. S 

Tays.S.L 

Templeton, Thomas . . 

Long, J.W. C 

Davis, E.H 

Pthyne, J.L 

Ferguson, F. C 

Furches, J. M 

Gray, J. W 

Cobb,E.A 

Cools, C. L 

Cloud, Joel 

Cline.J.R 

Cooper, A. D * 

Cannon, G. W 

McKeo, G. W 

Bristoe, L. A 

Angle, S 

Bell, A. W 

Dula,S.A 

Davis, J. R 

Dickey, J. M 

Patterson, W. W 

Powell, P. S 

Jennings, T. L 

Bogle, W.G 

Patterson, W. J 

Howell, S.L 

Burke, R. F 

Somers, J. D 

Withers, C.C 

Stowe. L. P 

Howell, J. B 

Sherrill, S. P 

McDowell, A. B 

Ramsay, D. A 

Douglass, J. P 

Long, CD 

AVilfong. C. A 

Martin, J. M 

Rhoads, M. L 

Sommers, J. C 

Moss, A. A 

Glenn,T 

McDowell, S.M 

McDowell, W.B 

Cain, R. F 

Rankin, W. R 

Douglass, J. G 

Beli;S.S 

IClutz, A "W 

Moore, W. M 



$4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 



$108 
108 

92 
108 
108 

40 
108 
108 
108 

40 
108 
108 
108 

96 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

52 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
104 
108 

40 
108 



108 

92 

84 

48 

108 

108 

80 

64 

108 

108 

44 

12 



$108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



108 



108 

48 

108 



108 
104 
108 



$100 
100 
100 
100 
100 



108 
108 
108 
108 



100 
96 
]6 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 



92 

108 

96 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

80 
108 
108 
108 
108 

60 
108 

32 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

36 
108 



108 
108 

96 
108 

52 
108 
108 
108 
108 

16 
108 
108 

40 

72 



12 



108 
108 
108 



104 
104 
104 
104 



104 
104 



80 
104 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 



$104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
88 
104 
104 
104 
104 
80 
104 
104 
104 
104 



92 
104 
104 

92 
104 
104 



104 
104 
104 
104 



104 

104 

104 

104 

76 

36 

]04 

104 

104 

32 



92 
92 
104 
104 
104 
104 
80 
104 
104 
104 



104 
104 
100 
104 



104 
104 
104 



104 
'i04' 



104 
104 



104 
104 



108 
108 

16 

32 

28 

12 

4 

108 

36 

24 

.56 

88 

88 

80 

80 

40 

36 
Gensral storekeeper. 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 



108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

88 
108 
108 
108 

56 

52 I 
108 
108 
108 
108 



104 
104 
104 
104 



$104 
104 
104 
100 
104 



104 
104 
96 
104 
104 
104 



104 
104 
80 
96 
104 
104 



40 
108 
108 
108 
108 
308 
108 
108 



108 
108 
80 
108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



100 
108 
108 
108 



108 
'l08 



28 
108 



104 
96 
104 
104 
104 



104 
40 
104 
104 
104 



16 
104 
104 
104 

48 
104 
104 
104 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 



96 



104 
104 



104 
104 



104 
104 
104 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
60 
104 
104 
104 



104 
104 
104 
100 

88 

72 



104 
104 
104 
104 
72 



104 
164' 



104 
104 



96 



8 
104 
104 



104 
104 



108 !. 

!. 

io8 i 



108 
108 



104 
92 
96 

104 



104 
104 
104 
104 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 579 

Statement of payments made to storekeepei^ and storekeepers and gaugere, <^'c. — Continued. 





a 

1 


Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1878. 


Quarter ending 
December 31, 

1878. 


Quarter ending 
March 31, 1879. 


Quarter ending 
June 30, 1879. 


Name. 


'3 


00 

be 


m 

a 
1 


P 


i 

o 


a 

o 
O 


u 

C8 
S 

a 
a 


3 


J3 
1 


-5' 


S 


a 

"-5 


Atkins T. A 


$4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
















$92 
96 
96 
96 
20 
96 
96 


$104 
76 
88 
76 
48 
104 
104 


$104 

20 

104 


$-.03 


$16 


Adams, J. F 

Shore FT 










$16 
96 

104 

104 
12 
20 

104 
48 
24 


$104 
104 
104 
104 

"ioi" 


$lOe 
108 
108 
108 
20 
108 










$8 


108 


76 


A.danis, F. M 




















64 

104 
104 


108 

108 

56 


4 


Kiitled"e Z T 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 










100 


Suggs,/. T 






















Somers, P. F 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 










104 
16 
72 
68 
44 

104 
12 
16 

104 

16 

8 

52 
84 
92 
8 
96 
96 
28 
32 
96 
44 
4 
44 

104 


76 
20 


52 






92 

16 

108 


80 


Parks, McR 










8 




12 


Huss, J. F 
























'ios' 

108 


28 
96 
96 


"104" 
104 


104 


100 


Angood,D.P 

Gentry, A. D 

Jarvis, Joseph 

Loug,A.P 

Snuyne, E. L 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 












104 ifs 


100 












104 


108 


68 




























36 
76 


104 
70 


108 
108 












16 


108 


96 


88 












Rhyme, P. J 












108 
108 
100 
108 


96 
96 
96 
96 


104 
104 
104 
104 


104 

104 
104 
104 


108 

108 
108 
108 


100 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 












100 


Jenkins, P. W . . 












100 














100 


Price, W. L 


























108 
108 

108 
108 
108 

108 

"ios' 

80 

108 

68 

12 

84 

68 

92 

108 

60 

56 

8 

20 

108 

108 

108 

60 

24 

44 

80 

92 

92 

72 

68 


96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
40 
96 


104 
104 
104 
92 
104 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


100 














100 


Kimbrough, M 












100 












100 










::::::: 




Little, P. A 












Buingarner T. L 
































104 


104 


108 


3fi 


Tucker, D. S 


























96 
96 


104 
104 


104 1 108 
104 10s 


100 
















72 


Pearce, W. L 














104 




















96 
96 
52 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
68 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 


104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

'"'so' 

104 
56 
104 
104 
76 
104 
104 


108 


100 
















104 108 
100 ! 108 
104 52 
104 1 108 
104 1 108 
56 1 44 
1U4 ' KIS 


100 


Badger, 6. W 














100 


Hoots, W. F . 














56 
















100 


Bailey. J. K ... 


1 










96 
















64 


Rhyne, W. H 














GO- 


Bruner, T. K 














96 
104 
104 


92 
108 
ms 


100 


Sftzer, G. W 












28 


100 


Hooper, M. L 

Hildebraud, P. M 












100 














104 100 




Hauiia, L. G 
















Reed, S. M 














io4 io8 

104 108 
104 108 
104 44 


100 
















100 


















48 


England, N. B 












v72' 


Poindexter, G. Z 




















LaA^ W. B 














96 
56 
• 20 


104 
104 


104 
104 


108 
108 


100 


Lowe, R. R 










1 


100 


Rutledge, John T 

Ellis, W. R 










1 


















24 


lOd 




24 


Barkley, W. A 








1 




8 1 

84 104 
20 104 
68 68 
44 104 
40 104 
80 1 04 


28 1 

76 




Sullivan, J. C 
















Deal, Sylvanus 

Lowery, U. L 

Kennedy, K. J 

Barklev, G. A 


4 00 
















4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 














28 


104 68 
104 li 8 
104 1 IOS 
56 57 
104 1ii« 


100 






... ] 
















1 


100 


Holbiull, W. F .... 












80 


Wallace, E 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 














56 
96 
96 


104 
104 

101 


84 


Call, J. S 














8 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 






Alienirtthv, J. R 














108 
44 

108 
84 

10s 


<o 




4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 














40 104 
68 104 
48 72 
CO 1('4 
G8 , 104 


100 


Cawley, S 














3C> 


Clarke J W 






■ i 








cs 


Wells, J. H \'.'.". 






■ ■ 






Bell,R. L 


4 00 











1.14 108 


fed 



580 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 

Statenunt of 2)ayments made to storel-eepers and storekeepers and {/augers, cjv. — Continued. 





i 

-2 
M 


Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1878. 


Quarter ending 
December 31, 

1878. 


Quarter ending 
March 31, 1879. 


Quarter ending 
June 30, 1879. 


J^^ame. 


l-s 


so 

be 


1 

ft 
® 


o 
o 
O 


* 

S 

o 


a 




>> 

i 
1-5 




rd 

c 

g 

3 


1 


^ 
3 



a 




H 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
400 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
















$68 
96 


$104 

104 

88 

92 

40 

92 

28 

80 

104 

88 

104 

48 

56 

64 

96 


$ 72 
104 
104 
104 
104 
80 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

""12 

104 

104 

96 

104 

72 

68 

48 

20 

100 

4 

76 

40 

92 

20 

80 

100 

76 

12 

68 

16 

52 

28 

24 


$108 
72 
40 
72 
24 
108 


$100 




































40 


Dulin W M 


1 i 1 














Holcombe T F 




j 














Alexander W F 




1 














Halcorab W B 


















Eve C W 




















Rxitledce J H 
















108 

108 

40 

108 


100 


















60 




















Caldwell F 
















64 


Caldwell J. E. A . , 


4 00 






















4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 


















64 

108 


100 








































108 fiO 


Edwards D. R 




















108 
108 


100 


Holland, M. A 

Aydellotte, J. F 




















100 


















32 
12 




















28 
108 

80 

24 
108 

28 

"ios' 

108 
108 
108 
104 
108 
























Heilig L. A 






















White J L 




















100 






















100 


Touno' E. M 






















Huss J. F 




















48 


Whiteley.N.L 

"Wiles A^ 




















100 




















100 


William son E.. T 




















84 


Flowers G F 




















100 


Mcintosh J T 






















Hedrick J T 






















Wao'ner J S 










































108 
52 

108 
24 
72 
32 
52 

108 
16 
84 
80 

108 
64 

108 

108 

4 

64 

52 

48 


100 












































100 














































84 


Ford L. C .' 






















100 


Smith G W 














































100 
























100 


Brown J W 






















60 
























100 
























100 


Gibbs W K 






















100 


1 Dirla T J ■" 






















100 


Hildebrand, John 






















100 






















12 


Woodrufl' R W 






















100 


"Mason W D 






















76 
























100 
























72 


McCoy W. H 
























92 


Osborne T. J 
























48 


























100 


Bailey J W 
























20 


Styres, James , . . . 

Barkley 0. M 
























16 
























88 


Plyler S. A 
























16 


Ward L. A 
























16 





























* General storekeeper. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



581 



Stalcmciit of jxiiimetifs made to storehcc))ers and .^lorrkccpfri^ atid (/(tiifiers h;/ J. J. MoH, coJ- 
h'ctor sixlh dinlricl, yorili CaroJina, from JtiJij 1. 1^79, to June 30, 1^'^'U. 



^ 



Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1879. 



Ford, L. C. 

Glenn. T 

Gentry, A. D 

Gniuer, A 

Gilibs, W. K 

Fleming, S. H . . . . 
Howard, "William. 
Allsidod. D. P . . . . 
Holland, M. A.. . 

Huflfinan. A 

Hohonibe, T. F . . 

Heiliir, L. A 

Hooper, M.L 

Hiitl'inau, S 

Ferguson. F. C . . . 

Hart^ian, E 

Howell S. L 

HildeUrand. .J .... 
Hildebrand, P. M. 

Hoover, S. A 

Hauna, J. M 

Jones, J. S . . . . 
Jenkins, P. W.... 
Jennings, T. L . . . 
Joliu.ston, F. G - . . 

Kleitz, A. W 

Kiuibroiigh, M . . . 

Keener, J. A 

Lourance, W. M. . 
Langeuour, P. F . . 
Lourance, (". VT . . 

Long. T 

Lav, W. B 

Lewis, J. R 

Lippard. M 

Lower, J. "W. C . 
Long, J. W. C .... 



Armstrong, J. M $4 00 $108 

Ande,S • 4 00 [ 108 

Atkins, T. A 4 00 l 40 

Abernalhy, J. 11 4 00 I 108 

Bailey, J.'K 4 00 i 108 

Brown. S. D 4 00 ] 100 

Bruner, T. Jv 4 00 l 72 

Barklev, O. M j 4 00 I 84 

Badger, O. AV 4 00 J 108 

Barklev. G. A 4 00 , 60 

Bell. S. S 4 00 I 84 

Butuer, A. B I 4 00 108 

Bell, 11. L 4 00 88 

Bell. A. W j 4 00 ! 108 

Caldwell, F ' 4 01) I 108 

Benbow, L. S | 4 00 108 

Cook, C. L 4 ()(» 10.S 

Cooper, A. D. ' 4 00 bt8 

Cline, J. K 4 00 I 108 

Conilev, S I 4 00 108 

Clarke.J.W , 4 00 90 

Cannon, G. AV ' 4 00 | 108 

Cassteven-s, M ' 4 00 108 

Davi.s. J. K ' 4 00 44 

Douiilass, J. P I 4 00 I 44 

Douglass, J. G I 4 00 \ 

Drake, E.B. 4 00 

Dickey, J. M 4 00 

Dula, T. J." ...I 4 00 

Edwards, D. R i 4 00 

England, N. B ! 4 00 

Ellis, W. R 4 00 

Flower.s. G. F ; 4 00 

4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
•4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 

4 00 : 

4 00 I 108 
4 00 1 100 
4 00 I CO 
4 00 60 
4 00 i 108 
4 00 ! 108 
4 00 I 108 
4 00 ' 108 

4 00 I 

4 00 ! 8 
4 00 ' 48 
4 00 100 

4 00 i ae 

4 00 104 

4 00 104 

4 00 lOS 

4 00 108 

4 (10 



108 

108 

108 

56 

108 

56 

108 

52 

104 

44 

108 

108 

68 

48 

20 

lOH 

108 

40 

76 

108 

108 

108 

20 

4t 

44 



$104 $104 
104 104 
68 
88 
56 104 



104 
104 



Quarter ending 
December 31, 
1879. 



$108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
12 



96 108 

104 I 108 

68 I 108 

104 I 

104 j 108 

56 108 

108 

104 104 



104 i 104 ■ 108 
104 104 , 108 



104 

80 

104 

104 



104 108 
44 : 108 

104 i 108 



80 108 
84 
108 
108 
108 
108 



104 ' 104 

104 104 

104 104 

104 104 

104 j 104 i 108 

' I 104 

104 ! 104 16 

96 I 104 I 64 



104 I 104 

104 i 104 



104 
104 

104' 
104 
104 
44 



92 

104 
104 

44 
104 
104 
104 
104 

52 



108 

108 

60 



$100 

100 

84 

68 

100 

100 



108 

108 

52 

92 

108 

84 

108 

108 



52 j 104 

84 1 104 



108 
92 
68 
44 

108 
56 

108 



104 I 104 

80 I 

104 I 104 

104 ; 104 I 108 

i ' 52 

8 , 

104 I 44 : 

96 I 104 i 108 



104 
104 



64 I 92 
104 108 



104 104 108 100 
96 104 I 108 52 

'General storekeeper. 



100 
100 
100 

72 
100 

84 
100 

36 

72 
100 
lliO 

24 



$108 
104 



108 
108 
108 



100 

100 



100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 



20 



84 
64 

100 
60 
84 

100 

100 

100 
100 
100 

88 
100 
100 



108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

76 

88 

108 

108 

108 

108 

108 

44 

96 

108 

76 

'io8 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



84 
104 
108 
108 
108 



108 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



12 
100 

100 

100 

400 

100 
16 
100 
100 
100 



80 
100 

16 
100 
100 



108 
108 
108 
92 
04 
104 



108 
108 
108 



Quarter ending ! Quarter endina 
March 31, 1880. Cune 30, 1880. ■" 



$72 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 

80 
108 
108 

56 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

92 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
60 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



108 

108 

56 

108 



108 
108 
108 
108 
64 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
16 
88 
108 
108 
108 



$104 ! $104 
104 I 104 
104 104 



80 i 104 

92 j 100 

104 ! 60 

. 92 104 



24 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



60 
104 
100 
104 



108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
84 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



88 
104 
104 
104 
104 



76 
56 

104 

100 

1(10 

51) 

80 

1(14 

1(14 

><8 

104 

104 



52 




104 


104 


84 


64 


104 


9(i 


104 


104 


104 


104 


104 


104 


104 


104 


104 


84 


104 


104 


104 


104 



108 
108 
108 



104 1 104 

84 104 

104 104 

88 104 



108 i 76 I 104 

108 i 104 I 104 

108 104 I 104 

84 



52 
108 



108 

108 

108 

40 



108 
108 
108 
84 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 
108 
lOS 
108 
108 



104 



104 
104 
104 
60 
104 



104 
86 
104 
104 
104 



104 1 104 
104 ; 104 

100' ! 104 



104 
104 
104 
80 
104 
104 
104 



$104 
104 

104 



12 
16 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
96 
104 
1(14 
104 
104 
40 
80 



64 
104 

36 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

92 
104 
104 



104 

104 

104 

88 



108 : 104 i 104 

108 I 104 I 24 

108 I 104 1 104 

108 100 ' 100 



104 
104 

'i04 
24 
104 



104 
lu4 
104 

104 
84 



104 
104 
104 



104 


'" ioi 


104 




88 


92 


52 


104 


104 


104 



v582 COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 

■Statement of payments made to storekeepers and storekeepers and gangers, <^'c. — Coutiuued. 



Name. 



Morris, S. M 

Morrison, W. C 

MoAlpine, T. D ... 
J^cLaughlin, (Jr. W . 

McCoy, W.H 

MookJL. C 

MasoB, L. A 

MoKee, G.W 

Morrow, L.*" 

Mayberry, A 

Myres, M. C 

March, W.B 

Osborne, T.J 

Patterson, W. W . . . 

Privett, W. C 

Powell, P. S 

Patterson, G. W 

Parks, McK , 

Patteison, "W". J 

EobinsoD, L. A 

Rhyne, W.H , 

Kbyne, P. J 

Rutledae, J. H 

Peel, S.' M , 

Putledge, Z. T 

Eobinson, W. M 

Pvankin, W.'R 

Khyne, J. L 

Shore, F.T 

Salmons, A. M 

Setzer, G. W 

Smith, A. T 

Stowe, L. P 

Stinson, J. B 

Somers, P. P 

Somers, J. D 

Sharpe.G. W 

SoDjmeis, J. N 

League, M. M 

Wallace, E 

White, J. L 

Williams, J. W 

Williamson, E. J 

Templeton, Thomas . 

Wilkinson, M. A 

Woodruff, K. W 

Wiles, A 

Wbiteley, N. L 

Westmoreland, W. L 

Wells, J. H 

Price, T. A 

Dobson. E i.. 

Mott, H. T 

Eaves, J. B. * 

Brown, J". W 

Hays.J.N 

Hausee, J. H 

McDowell, W.B 

Cloud, Joel 

Brooks, H.M 

Hendrix, W. G. C... 

Davis, S. C 

Adams, F. M 

Holland, W. F 

Davis, E.H 

Kennedy, K. J 

Vestal, M. H 

Eurches, J. M 

Sherrill, S, P 

-Avdlotte, J, E 

Bell, W 



$4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 



Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1879. 



4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 



4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 



4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 



4 00 



108 

100 

108 

.56 

308 

108 

108 

108 

108 

100 

108 

108 

96 

108 

64 

36 

68 

44 

16' 



$104 
104 
48 
104 
104 



$104 

104 

104 

104 

20 



Quarter ending 
December 31, 
1879. 



104 

104 

104 

64 



108 

108 

76 



20 
108 
108 
108 



56 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
40 
100 



$100 

100 

100 

56 



100 
100 



100 
100 



32 
100 
100 

20 



100 

ioo 



100 
100 

48 



36 
100 



100 
56 



100 

68 

100 



$108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
52 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 

108 

40 

60 



Quarter ending 
March 31, 1880. 



108 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 
108 



108 

52 

108 



108 

16 

108 



108 
40 

108 
84 

108 



76 

108 

'ibs 

108 
108 
92 
108 
108 
108 



16 

60 

100 

100 

100 



20 I 28 
104 I 108 
104 I 108 

12 I 108 



108 

96 

108 

108 



108 
30 



100 
100 



60 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

32 

20 
100 
108 

88 



108 
108 



100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
100 
56 



100 
100 



308 
104 
108 
104 

108 
100 
108 
68 
108 
108 



108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 

96 

12 

108 

]04 



108 
108 
108 

108 
108 

"l08 
108 
88 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 



108 
108 



60 

16 
108 

40 
108 
108 
108 
108 

80 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



96 



96 



108 
108 
108 
104 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 



108 
108 
104 
108 



100 
108 
108 



108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
100 
108 
108 
92 
108 



Quarter ending 
June 30, 1880. 



$104 

96 

104 

104 

88 

104 

104 

104 

104 

96 

104 

104 

104 

104 

104 



104 
104 
104 



104 
104 



100 
28 



104 
96 
104 
104 
104 
64 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
92 



104 



108 
108 



104 
104 
16 



108 


104 


80 


60 


108 





108 


104 


108 


104 


108 


104 


44 





12 

108 
108 
108 
108 
108 



104 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 



' General storekeeper. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 583 

Statement of payments made to storekeei^ers and storekeepers and gangers, cfc — Continued. 





a 

O 

O. 

ID 
"§ 


Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1879. 


Quarter ending 
December 3i, 
1879. 


Quarter ending 
March 31,1880. 


Quarter ending 
June 30, 1880. 


Xame. 




no 
P 


S 

a 
s 

4) 


8 


i 

1 


.a 
S 
o 

p 


S 


3 


4 
1 


i 


1 


6 
a 

^5 




$4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 




$32 


$80 
84 
40 
16 


$io6 
'ioo' 
"ioo 

100 
100 


$108 
108 
104 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 








$80 
32 
16 


$92 
104 


$104 
104 


Boffle W.G 






$108 
108 
108 

'"io8 

108 
108 


$96 
96 
96 
60 
96 
56 
96 


$80 

"ios' 

108 

72 

108 

108 


Brown J W 






92 








104 1 104 
96 ' 100 
104 i 104 
104 104 
104 104 


104 


FrQueburger, D 






44 
32 
60 


20 






104 








104 


Pasour, S. P 







108 
16 

104 
12 


90 


Shore, Henry 




^ 


12 






4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 01) 
4 UO 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 




100 


108 


44 










.Soiires C. H 










40 


8 


Tavs, S. L 






88 


100 
20 


92 
96 


44 
100 


68 
44 


108 


36 






"Watts, J. A. F 






8 
16 
16 
28 




68 


Williams D H 










"Wooihuff, J. M 

Youu"- EM 






"ioo" 

88 

100 

24 

8 

16 

96 

92 

12 

60 

100 

48 

64 

60 

04 




108 

88 
108 
108 

20 


"io8 

108 

108 

108 

16 


"96 
76 
96 
96 








108 
108 
108 
108 
32 


88 104 
104 104 
104 104 
104 1 .104 

24 ' 24 


104 


Bristle L. A 






88 


(Jail .J. S 








104 




I 1 




104 


Coiuatzer, Thomas 


;;;;;i;;;;r;;; ;.; 




Goun-h W. S 




76 


108 

S8 
108 
108 
108 
108 

"ios' 

104 
16 
60 

100 
8 

100 
12 
84 

100 

108 
56 
24 
12 
8t 
60 
36 

108 

108 

16 

88 

8 

48 


108 
92 

88 
108 
108 
92 
28 
108 
108 


96 
80 
96 
96 
96 
96 


108 
76 

108 
108 
108 
108 


104 84 

80 80 

104 28 

.. . 52 


104 


Gray J. W 




68 


Mason, W.D 








Mcintosh,.!. T 






104 


Moss H A 


1 




104 






Eamsay, D. A 


' 


104 


104 


104 






Tuoker F P 






96 
90 


108 
108 


104 
104 


104 
104 


104 








104 


Adams G W 









Barrington, Noah 








108 
108 


96 
96 


108 


104 












Costrin F A 












Foard, R. H 








108 

36 

108 

108 


96 
96 
96 
96 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 

64 
100 
108 
108 

56 
108 
108 


104 104 
104 1 92 
104 104 
40 

'ioV'ioi' 
"m "loi 

104 1 104 
104 1 104 


104 


Havnes T. B 




, 




104 






1 




68 








! 






Howell, J. B 












Howell H. L 










108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


96 
92 
40 
96 
96 
96 
96 
96 


104 


Jones, C. L 

Kerley, T. A 

Little" PA 










52 










104 










24 












72 


Mclutvre .1 Y 










76 






Parks W. P 




...J 


12 
24 


104 
104 


104 
104 


104 


Poiudexter G Z 






104 


Poindexter F W 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 










Willi.uo-, C. A 











108 

108 

104 

88 

1 

16 
108 
8 
88 
76 
108 


96 
96 
96 
96 
96 


108 
108 
108 
108 
108 


104 
104 
104 
104 
72 


104 
76 

104 
20 


72 














Stewait J. H 










100 


Ballew J. E 




' 











1 








Combs Hix 












8 


Hendrix R -J 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 






1 
















Hoots W. F 














96 


108 


68 



































96 
96 
96 

8 
16 
96 
68 
96 

4 
96 
52 
12 


108 

108 

108 

8 

... 

io8 

108 
108 

"ios' 

108 


' 




Shields T. L 














104 

104 

12 


104 
104 


104 


Smith S. P 















104 


Bicknell B E 


i'""" 












Holden J. H 


































12 


108 


104 100 
104 ; 104 
104 104 


104 


Xick P M 






■" 1 :.: 




72 




4 00 
4 00 

4 on 

4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
















104 


Phillipps, G. W 

Saulsburv. D. fj 

Shore H."E . . 
























1 






104 
104 








104 
IG 


104 


Somers W "Y 






1 "" 








Boone R B 




■ 


.. 1 






24 
92 
56 


24 


















104 104 


104 


Davis. L.E ..." 






1 













584 COLLECTION 
Statement of jyayments made to store 


OF 


INTEENAL REVENUE IN 

rs and storekeepers and gaufjers, <^-c. — Continued. 




53 
ft 


Quarter end- 
ing Septem- 
ber 30, 1879. 


Quarter ending 
December 31, 

1879. 


Quarter ending 
March 31, 1880. 


Quarter ending 'd 
June 30, 1880. 1 


Name. 


1-5 


4 

■ok 


a 
© 

ft 


o 
o 
O 


'a 


i 

o 
R 


hi 




S 


■r 

< 


§ 
S 


\ 

3 


Hampton, T.H 


$4 00 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 GO 
4 GO 
4 OG 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 GO 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 GO 
















$.52 
72 
60 


$28 
1G4 

104 


$56 
104 
104 
104 
104 
104 

76 
104 

52 


$36; 

104 

304 

16 

104 

104 

76 

96 

104 


Hawkins, R 










i 






Hendiix, J. K . . ^ 








;::.:::::::i""":: 






Huss, J. F 














12 ! iii'i 


Loftin, E. L 








! 






84 
108 
16 
36 
28 
SG 
84 
20 
40 


104 
104 
104 
64 
104 


Martin, S. J 








1 




?68 


Meroney, T. A. 




, 






Somers, J. P 








i 






Smitherman, J. T 














Wallier, W.M 








i i 






Walton, E.S...- 








"""' : i 1 




104 
100 


104 


104 


Wbite,M.'A 








\ ] 1 




Winters, J. C 








1 






Anderson, James 








1 


16 
12 

84 

8 

20 

28 

52 

32 

16 

104 

104 

104 

104 

84 

104 

72 

4 

16 






Brown, H. L 








i i ■ 








Davis, S. L 


4 GO 












! 1 




104 


104 


Edwards, Yincent i 4 00 


" 








......1 






<-ientry, W. A ! 4 00 


... 1 








i 1 








Hennesee, B. J 4 00 


j 














104 




Kearns, John T 4 00 


1 






1 








Linebarger, D. E i 4 00 


1 
















Markland, G. W ! 4 00 
















, 


"'io4 




Morris, B. ! 4 GO 
















12 1 


104 


Moss, W. B i 4 00 


















Porter, W.F 


4 00 
4 00 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 GO 




















100 
104 
104 
104 
104 
4 




Proftitt,S.T 


















72 


104 


Pruitt, J. M 


















104 


Shores, W. C 














^ 






104 


Shelton, J. B 




















72 


Williams, S 4 00 






















Wa.rd,S.P 


4 GO 
4 GO 






















Alexander, W. F 




















12 


104 


Calloway, J 


4 GO 























36 
12 
76 
28 
40 




Douglass, Thomas A . . 


4 GO 
4 00 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 GO 
























Garwood, M 






















68 


Godreen, James 




■ 


















Haitbcox, D. M 
















104 


Martin, W.D 


















20 

104 

4 

16 
104 




Mills, W.J 


4 GO 
















24 


84 


Peddvcord, S 


4 00 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 GO 
4 00 
4 GO 


















Plvlei,H 




















Eoseman, M. T 


















104 


Setzer,.J.C 
















60 


Shore.C 
















12 
4 
4 




vStipe,L. W 




















Taylor, Peter 


4 GO 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 00 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 00 




















Todd, K.Lee 




















4 




Bowman, W. G 




















60 


Culbreth, E.W 






















g 


Douglass, W. C 






















32 


Houston, E. L 
















1 




104 


Jones, John 






















16 


Lomas, P. A 


4 00 
4 GO 
4 00 
4 GO 
4 00 












•■. 










100 


Martin, H. H 






















4 


McCully,E. H 


























4 


Propst, C. E 

























]0 


Khyne, A. A , . 










1 












4 

16 

100 


Sheek,G.W 


4 GO 
4 00 










1 












Williams, D.L 






i 































THE SIXTH DISTKICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



585 






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COLLECTION OF INTEENAL EEVENUE IN 






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THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 



r>87 



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588 



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590 



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THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF AORTH CAROLINA. 



503 



Statevient of pai/menls made to storekeeperii and ■■ilorekcepers and gauqerx hij J. J. Moit, col- 
lector sixth district Xorth Carolina, from July 1, 1881, to March 31, 1882. 





s 

p. 


Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Sept. 30. 


Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Dec. 31. 


Quar 
ing 


er 1882 end- 
March 31. 


Name. 


>^ 


So 
3 
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S 


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O 


1 


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Abernathv, T. R 


$3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
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3 00 
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3 m 
3 00 
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3 00 
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3 00 
3 00 
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3 00 

4 00 
4 00 
3 00 
3 00 

3 00 

4 00 
3 00 
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3 00 
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3 00 
3 00 
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3 00 
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3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 


$!) 
78 
78 
78 
78 
6 
78 




















$R1 
81 
81 

18 


$78 
78 
78 
78 


$78 00 
78 00 
78 00 
78 00 
78 00 


$78 
78 
78 
78 
78 










Ali'xandcr, W. T 

Allgood, D. P 


$81 

81 

81 

9 


$78 
78 
78 


$72 
72 


$81 


An jile, S 




Arnold, AT. S 






Atkius, T. A 


54 
















48 


81 


78 


69 


81 


Bandy, A 


36 

78 
12 
78 
78 
78 
78 
39 









Barkley, G. A 


33 
36 

81 
81 

'"18' 




36 00 


78 


81 


60 
18 


72 
57 


57 
45 


Barkly, 0. M 


Baninjier, Noah 


78 
78 
24 

78 


78 66 
78 00 
78 00 
78 00 


78 
78 
78 
78 
72 
63 


57 
81 
81 
81 
81 
81 




Beal, B. V 


78 
78 


72 
48 


12 

81 


Bean, J. W 


Bell, A. "W 


Bell, R. L 


36 
30 


42 




Bell, S. S '. 










Bogle, W. G 


63 
69 

48 
36 
60 
30 

78 


81 


60 


64 50 






Biittian. Julius 




57 


78 




75 


Brooks, H. M 


78 








Brown, John M 










30 


81 


Brown, F. D 






6 










Bulner, A.B 








54 


78 


72 


81 


Ben how, L. S 












Barnhardt, G. E 








78 
66 

78 
78 


81 
78 
81 
81 


78 

78 
78 


'"72 
72 

72 




Bost, Eli 


'"78 








81 


Call, J. S 


81 


78 


78 00 
36 00 
27 00 
27 00 


81 
81 




Caastevena, M 


78 
24 
15 


81 
27 


78 


Clarke, J. W 


72 


72 


78 


72 


72 


Cloud, Joel 


Cline, J. R 






'78'66 
78 00 
104 00 


75 

78 

78 

104 


81 

69 

81 

108 


66 

78 

78 

104 


51 

72 
96 






78 
78 
104 
60 
60 
78 
15 


60 
81 
108 
12 
63 
81 


78 

78 

104 

24 

78 
78 






81 


Cooper, A. D.* 

Cornatzen, A. C 


108 


Crawford, G. W 


78 66 

78 00 

6 00 

78 00 


78 
78 


63 

81 






15 




78 


72 


81 


Camp, B. B 










78 
45 
78 
78 


81 
81 
81 
51 


57 

78 
78 






Davis, E. H 


24 
78 
36 
57 
15 
18 
27 
104 
104 
78 
45 






36 
72 










12 00 
33 00 


30 


Da via, L. M 








Davis, S. C 










33 


Davis, S. L 




































Douglass, J. P 






57 00 
104 00 
104 00 
78 00 
78 00 
57 00 
104 00 
78 00 
27 00 


78 
104 
104 
78 
78 
78 
104 
78 
78 


81 
108 
108 
81 
81 
81 
108 
81 
81 


78 
104 
104 

78 

'"is 

104 






Drake,E.B.* 

Dula,T. T.* 


io8 

108 
81 


104 
104 
78 


96 
96 
72 
33 
66 
96 


108 

108 

18 


Dulin. L.M 


81 


Douell, A. H 






81 


Eaves, J. B.* 


104 
78 
78 
30 


108 
81 


104 
78 


108 


Ellis, W. R 


60 


72 


81 










England, N. B 






51 00 


75 






12 


30 


Furchess, W. F 








81 






Furclies, J. M 


24 
45 








• 78 


1 




Flowers, G. F 


::::::;:- 






39 


54 


81 


Ferguson, F. C 






27 00 
78 00 








Fraley, W 


78 


81 


75 


78 

9 

21 


81 


78 


72 


48 






Gillespie, H. A 


6 

78 
24 








81 


78 
18 
18 
78 


72 
72 
72 

72 


81 


Gongle, \V. S 


48 


63 






Grant, A. T 








81 












42 


81 


Gray, J. "W 


78 
48 










Green, J. F 






51 00 
78 00 
30 00 
51 00 
78 00 


78 
69 

78 
78 
78 


81 
66 
81 
69 
81 


78 
78 
78 
78 
78 


72 
72 
60 
63 
72 


81 


Gentry, A. D 


30 


33 


66 


GudgeTjS.R 


81 


Haithcox, D. M 


48 
78 






81 


Hauna, T. M 


60 


78 


81 



S. Mis. 116- 



*General storekeeper and ganger. 



-39 



594 



COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN 



Statement of ])ayments made to storelceepers and storekeepers and gaugers, ij-c, — Continued. 



Name. 



M 



Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Sept. 30. 



Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Dec. 31. 



Quarter 1882 end- 
ing March 31. 



Hendrix, ^Y. G. C . 
Heunessee, R. T . . 
Hoffman, "W.H.... 
Holcombe, T. F . . . 
Holland, W. F . . . . 

Hooper, M. L 

Hoover, S. A 

Houton.E.Z 

Howard, William , 

Huftman, S , 

Hauser, I. H 

Hays, I.N 

Heilig,L.A 

Howell, H.L 

Holland, M. A 

Howell, T.B 

Hayes, H 

Hayes, M. L 

Henderson, T. R . . . 

Jenkins, A. T 

Jenkins, P. W 

Jennings, L. C 

Jolinson, L. C 

Johnson, S. H 

Jolinson, Emmitt . 

Jennings, T. L 

Johnson, J. C 

Jones, J. S 

Kerley,T.A 

Klutz, A. W 

Kimbrough, M — 
Kenned J', K. T . . . 

Keener, J. A 

Langenour, P. F... 

Lay, W.B 

Lewis, J. R 

Little, P. A 

Lowe, R. R 

Lowery, D. L 

Lourauce, U. W . . 
Loiirance, W. E . . 

Ladd,J.L 

Ladd,E 

McLaugbliu, J. E 

May berry, A 

Mathi'ws, J. A . . . 
McAlpino. T. D .. 
MrC<)y,W.H.... 
McKee, W. S. 



$3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 



3 00 
3 00 



3 00 



3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 

Mc-Lnuehi;ii, G. W 1 3 00 

McNeely, T. H 

Meronoy, T. A 

Morris, U 

Morns, S. M 

Mon ow, Lerov* 

Murdock, A.P 

Myers, "\V. C 

Martin, T. J 

Mason, LA 

Mason, A . 1) 

Metcalf, J. W 

Mvers, A. G 

Martin, H. H 

MtCorkle, W. A 

Mvers. M. (; 

Mott.W.B* 

Powell. R 

Pack. A. F 

Parks, W.P 

Pattci.son. J. T.,ir 

Patterson. G. W 

Patterson, W. W 



3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 OJ 


4 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


4 00 


4 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 


3 00 



$51 
39 
69 

78 
66 

78 
15 

•rs 

78 
78 



78 



78 



21 

78 
42 
69 
78 
78 
]8 
63 
7.'> 
78 
1"4 
78 
24 
78 
78 
78 
78 
15 



$81 
81 



69 



81 



$78 00 



78 00 
78 00 



66 



78 



78 00 



78 00 



78 



45 00 
78 00 



78 00 



78 00 



36 00 
3900 



78 00 
78 00 



78 00 
78 00 
21 00 



78 00 
78 00 



78 00 



78 



78 00 78 

39 00 

78 00 78 
78 00' 78 



m 00, 

78 00 

78 oe: 

21 00], 
78 001 



78 OOi 
78 00: 



78 00 
78 00 



104 
1'4 
7H 
78 



75 00 
78 00 



78 



78 00 



78 
78 
36 
104 
51 
78 
78 



24 
81 
81 
81 
108 
81 
63 
81 



78 
78 
48 
12 
104 
78 
36 
78 



* General stoi ekeeper and ganger. 



THE SIXTH DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA. 595 

St itencnt of pajmnnts m% le t) storekeepers, t^-c. — Continued. 



Name. 



Patterson, "W. J $3 00 

Pearson, U. C * 4 00 

Peebles, L. A 3 00 

Peden, J. W 3 00 

P6nce,H. A 3 00 

Prevelt.W.C 3 00 

Pasom-.S.P 3 00 

Bankin, W.R 3 00 

Kanisay.D.A 3 00 

Eekl,R. R 3 (0 

Rhyne.H.M 3 00 

Rhvne, J. L 3 00 

Ehyne.P.J 3 00 

Rhvne, W.H 3 00 

R 11 hedge, Z. T 3 00 

Salmons, A. M 3 00 

Sebastian, L. W 3 00 

SSebastian, Z. T 3 00 

Sharpe, G. W * 4 00 

Shaver, J. M 3 00 

Sheiill,S.P 3 00 

Shields, T.L 3 00 

Shoie,D.H 3 00 

Shore, F. T 3 00 

Shore, H. E 3 00 

Smith, S.P 3 00 

Smithermau, J. T 3 00 

vSnuTO, E. L 3 00 

Snipes,H.C 3 00 

Soraers, J. D 3 00 

Somers, .T. F 3 00 

Someis, P. F 3 00 

Somers, W. V 3 00 

Stacy, J. P 3 00 

Stalev, E 3 00 

Stewart.J.H 3 00 

Stowe, L. P 3 00 

Shores, VV. C 3 00 

Simonton, J. B 3 00 

Summers, J.N 3 00 

Taylor.J.M' 3 00 

Teanue, M. M 3 00 

Turner, J. M 3 00 

Tedder,B.F 3 00 

Tharpe, F. G 3 00 

Templeton, Thomas 3 00 

Vt8tal,M.H 3 00 

"Wallace, K 3 00 

"Westmoreland, "W. L 3 00 

"Wasconer, T 3 00 

"Waltcn, E.S 3 00 

Welch, S.C 3 00 

"Wiles, A 3 00 

AVilkiuson, M. A 3 00 

"Williams, J). L 3 00 

"Williams, G. W 3 00 

"Williams, R 3 00 

■Wood, T. S 3 00 

Wehstoi', W. L 3 00 

White,W.P.A 3 00 

"Woodruff, R. AV 3 00 

"Uaiite,J.L 3 00 

"Wilfonjr, C. A 3 00 

Prnitt .T. M 3 00 

Pettv, Mack 3 00 

INEcFarland, R. S 3 00 

Miirch, W. 1? 3 00 

McEntire,J.T 3 00 

Richards,.r.B 3 00 

Risss, J. M 3 00 

Robinson, L. A 3 00 

Brown, H. L 3 00 

Bro wn, S. D 3 00 

Hallyburton, T. N i 3 00 

* General 



P^ 



Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Sept. 30. 



$3*5 

104 

78 

4-.' 

60 



1.^ 

78 
78 
78 
42 
78 
78 
6 
78 
78 
78 

104 
78 
24 
78 

• 3 
60 
48 
78 
69 
78 
75 
60 
57 
60 
18 
45 
78 
78 
63 
78 
72 



78 



78 



1(18 
81 



27 

81 

108 

48 



104 

78 



24 



12 
72 
104 
21 



54 



Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Dec. 31. 



$39 00 
104 00 
78 00 



15 00 
39 00 



78 00 



78 00 
78 00 



78 00 

78 00 

78 00 

104 00 



54 00 
03 00 



1104 
78 



78 
78 
78 
104 
63 



78 00 
40'.50 



78 78 OO; 
78 78 00, 
78 78 00 



69 00 



78 00 
78 00 
78 00 
78 00 
33 00 
51 00 



45 00 
45 00 



33 00 



72 00 
39 00 



78 



42 



18 00 
27 00 
21 00 
66 00 
57 00 
36 00 



$108 
■ 81 



72 



81 
69 
81 
108 
78 
81 
57 



Quarter 1882 end- 
ing March 31. 



$104 
54 
39 



78 

104 

78 

78 



81 



81 



78 



78 
30 



78 



storekeeper and gauger. 



5U6 COLLECTION OF INTERNAL REVENUE IN NORTH CAROLINA. 

Stalement of payments made to storeleepcrs, <^~g. — Continued. 





a 


Quarter 1881 end- 
ing Sept. 30. 


Quarter 1881 end 
ingDec. 31. 


Quarter 1882 end- 
ing March 31. 


Xime. 




s 

< 


m 


u 
o 

o 
O 


S 

s 

> 
o 


u 

a 

o 
P 


n 


1 


si 
3 


Hoots, W; F 


$3 no 

3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 










$21 
51 
72 
12 
30 
3 


$45 
81 
81 
81 
81 
81 
30 
48 
45 
15 
42 
66 
12 
48 
18 
68 
9 
42 








Poindexter, G. Z 
















Rhyne, A. B 










$78 
78 
78 
66 
78 
78 
78 
36 
78 
78 
12 
78 
21 
54 


$72 
69 
48 
21 
72 
72 
72 
72 
72 
72 
32 
39 


$81 
81 


Tays. S. L 










Ward, S. P 












Weir C.L 












Aydelotte, J. F 










81 














81 
















Gill, T. A 












81 


Harding, S. B 












81 


Hedrick, J. T 


























81 








































75 


1 












] 


Setzer, G. W 










78 
15 
36 
54 
21 
39 
66 
78 
78 
54 
69 


72 ' Rl 














15 
72 
72 

72 
72 
72 
72 
15 
42 
15 






3 00 


















3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
3 00 
8 00 
3 00 














81 


Hewitt J. L 














81 


Hildebrand P. M 








1 




51 














42 














81 














81 


Shelton, J. B 












81 


Marshall, R. A 














51 


Hand, A.J 














81 


Walker, W. M 
















36 


Bowles, R. C - 














69 




















6 




















45 


Nicks, P. M 
















21 


81 


Smith, C.J 
















33 


Williams L. W 


















27 


Shore W. E 
















18 























? RD- 5 M 

LBAp'CT 






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.^.•- •%, A^ *.Si^*' "^ -.-D^ *!k!\ Deacidified using the Bookkeeper proci 
'**'^ *^^TB^' '^*' *^ Neutralizing agent: Magnesium Oxide 

*• t*9*^o o%?^%^SS^* aV-^ -^ Treatment P-t°- ^"^^ 2007 



Z^^^JU6Ch* NT-N a 4P5^-d^^ - « ' -^^ Neutralizing agem:ividync3iu.M^ 

"^^^^ " <b*'*^ "WMx^* -^ "^ ""^ Treatment Date: May 2007 

•-^ISC^* .-^."^ \ '**'/.T***a'^ ^<r *'^ PreservationTechnolog 

^ ("^ * /**lJ^-r ^ l"* • J^s^<^^ * 'f' 111 Thomson Park Dnve 

' -^^ ,^ *^m^-, ^ .. A » '^^%,* V^ Oanberry Township. PA16066 



